 good evening to all of you and thank you for joining this interesting webinar around what your title as the mobile moments of truth. I have a fantastic panel eclectic set of panelists here with me today but before I we begin I'd like to introduce the topic to all of you and take you through what the next one hour is going to look like look like we are as you all know mobile is a ubiquitous part of our life today our living moments are I would imagine 70 80 percent being consumed looking at the screen adults children senior citizens we are all we are all consumed by our mobile screens and as we have seen increasingly over the last few years mobile has also become a very integral part of how brands are planning their communication strategy today more than 70 percent of advertising spends on digital going to mobile a large number of brands today look at a term called mobile first as their communication strategy so as I begin let me just take you through a snapshot of what we are where we stand today in terms of where the mobile industry is and then I will invite the panelists to start their talk so if you can see these screens so let me just quickly go through this as many of you know smartphone users in India this year are expected to cross almost 700 million and by the year 2025 as you can see the number is going to reach almost a billion number of people that a billion number of smartphone users in India that's a huge number that covers almost 80 percent of the population projected population at that time mobile first we all know this does not need any you know explanation 77 percent of the Indians access wireless broadband through wireless rural users are growing 88 percent 4g penetration in India and the kind of fast progressive we've made growth in Indian language content and entertainment and as we've seen covid times have ensured that you know entertainment that has come to us come to us through mobile has gone up significantly two-thirds of the users are in the young age group of 12 to 29 covid impact as I just mentioned has made sure that mobile has become a tool for gamut of things that we're doing whether it's shopping online learning occasion news entertainment other kind of content mobile games financial transactions influence on the top of the line mobile first and mobile first companies growth in mobile ad placement some trends that we've been seeing programmatic mobile ad buys have become very big almost 70 80 percent of ad buys on mobile are now happening through programmatic tools voice searches come of age comscore predicts that almost 50 percent of all searches in 2020 will be voice and that's a huge area an upcoming area and commerce as we've all seen it's become so easy to kind of you know go to your mobile and other stuff gamification has come of age pan the pandemic has really helped you know what we call fantasy sports companies and we've seen so many of them yesterday one of them you know paid 200 plus crores in the current environment to be the main sponsor for IPL video consumption OTT's has again grown chatbots have taken over a large number of consumer services now the questions that we are going to you know perhaps get an answer to through the session how can brands make the best out of this it's become a huge massive ecosystem a complex multi-layered ecosystem it is also competing with other media it is also competing within digital with web and other forms of digital media at the same time competing with television which offers a large impact in a large format impact so how can brands make the best use of it how do you measure results on mobile skills that marketing organization organizations are required to in-house programmatic good idea or ad fraud fraud to be concerned so these are some of the top points that we are going to cover through the next one hour so to do that let me start with introducing our interesting set of panelists I have with me today Vasuta Agarwal as many of you know is the managing director for Asia Pacific at InMovie she's responsible for the PNL revenue strategic partnerships and business for India Southeast Asia Japan Korea and ANZ markets prior to this she was the VP and GM for India business in InMovie driving consistent scale and growth over the past three plus years and incidentally Vasuta was also on the recently unveiled impact top 50 women top 50 most influential woman list welcome Vasuta thank you for taking time out and our other panelist is Achint Setia Achint as many of you know again is an integral part of Minthra's journey he's the head of marketing at Minthra and also looks after which also includes brand content a brand content loyalty program and digital marketing in his career spanning over 15 years he's had rich experience across e-commerce media management consulting and software and he also happens to be a space enthusiast and student of human creativity thank you Achint for joining us and welcome on board so let's start with you Vasuta since we are talking about mobile marketing mobile moments of truth and InMovie has been in this space for a for a you know pretty long period of time and you guys have done a lot of work in that why don't you take us through some of the learnings that InMovie has had in this arena and then perhaps I could curate a conversation around the four or five bucket items that I presented at the beginning sure never thanks for the introduction I'll you know kick it off with talking about today you know what is being sort of the journey of this concept of mobile moments of truth I think there is an interesting you know historical orientation to it and how it has become very relevant in the you know current world where mobile is at the center of many many things so you know quickly going back if you see the concept of you know mobile moments sorry moments of truth in marketing actually originated way back in 1982 and this was you know one of the things that the then CEO of the Scandinavian airline the SAS group defined as a moment of truth right it is every time a consumer interacts with a brand and has an opportunity to form an impression is a moment of truth for the brand to make some sort of you know impact on the consumer and at that time he said there was up to 50 000 moments of you know truth every day in this form obviously we know now that you know that number has multiplied many fold but this is where this really you know originated now if you see over time this has obviously evolved when this was defined you know by the sea of png back in 2005 he actually distinctly defined this into a first second and you know third moment of truth so the first moment of truth is essentially when the brand you know when the consumer actually sees the product on the shelf right that's the first moment of truth for any brand the second moment is when they've actually made a purchase decision and experience the product right so that's the second moment of truth per se and finally or the ultimate moment of truth comes when they start using the product or experiencing it and they actually start sharing feedback or even advocating the product right so that's how the moment of truth journey has you know evolved or been defined for a consumer interestingly as we moved into the digital age google actually coined this term called the zero moment of truth which is even before the consumer sees the product on the shelf in today's digital world they actually start researching and searching for the product online and that discovery phase is actually defined as the zero moment of truth really bringing the whole thing you know full cycle from discovery to viewing to purchase and then finally you know to advocacy so that's the you know concept of moments of truth now looking at you know how this has evolved in the current world where mobile is at the center of everything and how it's changed because you know you have one device on which this entire journey is happening so if you see in the context of mobile moments of truth we've actually defined a framework called the trick framework right transience relevance instantaneous and convergence and I'll share you know how this becomes relevant in the context of mobile moments of truth so the first one which is you know transience is an important one because if you see on mobile this journey of different moments of truth is often not linear right like it was in the physical world there is a lot of back and forth which happens between you know the different moments of truth because let's say if I want to buy a laptop right I might research the product get feedback and reviews look at ratings right go to a website compare price points compare different models right so a lot of those different moments are actually happening in a very you know transient way from one stage to another and in the middle I might go visit a store look at the product and then come back and you know buy it online so that entire journey has become extremely transient when it comes to mobile as a platform similarly if you look at relevance right I mean all of us know the amount of information available on our fingertips today is overwhelming right so making that information very very relevant and targeted becomes important from the brand's perspective so for example if I'm out looking for a car loan today for me any information related to say you know a personal loan or mutual funds or a bank account even though these are all financial products is irrelevant to because I'm looking for a car loan at that point of time right so relevance and personalization of the information again becomes very critical when it comes to mobile moments of truth right to sort of be able to reach the consumer in the right frame of mind then the instantaneous aspect of mobile right again here if you see we've gotten used to instant gratification when it comes to mobile whether it is ordering food or you know getting a cab watching a video right looking at a recipe anything at all everything is instantaneous everything is you know about convenience right and mobile has completely changed that game again when it comes to interaction with brands and finally the point around convergence right is that how all of these different moments that we talked about just you know a while back are literally colliding on mobile right because you're researching discovering buying giving feedback all at the same time all the time right on mobile exactly right so so that's how you know mobile has really changed this whole concept of you know moments of truth and the journey of a consumer and therefore made it all the more important for you know brands and marketers to look at this journey in a different way so so that was a little bit short this journey is understood if I can interject and ask you a couple of things both of you mobile and digital per se a lot of the you know marketing and advertising that is happening on digital is you know very specifically what we call you know result driven and it is possible to map the results map the consumer journey and do that whereas what a brand also need to do is especially in times like these covid times is to do desire driven marketing right you need to create the larger desire unless and unless unless until you do that you're only fulfilling a kind of you know immediate essential needs so to say so my first question to both of you is that how does a mobile platform beyond being you know very specific result driven platform also help you you know become a desired driven platform because for brands as I said even in especially in a slowdown environment it is an extremely important thing I mean yesterday we saw you know what happened with IPL bidding those brands are you know not sponsoring IPL to just look at you know specific ROI of how many people actually came on they are they are making a big splash on you know big platform so you have any thoughts on that Achille why don't why don't you tell us something yeah now well it's a good question in fact I touch upon that you know in the example I share on Mintra on thinking about engaging consumers in the exploration and the discovery phase early on you know and how you start building perception and you know prime them for the right behaviors you need at the time when the result oriented phase or the you know the lower down the funnel conversion phase comes so see the good news is mobile is a platform which people spend most time on today you know for each of their needs and to think of mobile as one thing is not probably correct it's many things encompassed in a in a small you know power pack device and power pack platform if I may say that so whether you are your consumer is sitting on social whether sitting on your platform if you own a platform whether you're sitting on a partner platform where you have some sort of influence over or whether they are going and browsing on you know third-party platforms in general and watching content there is an opportunity to engage the consumer throughout the funnel and the the focus there has to be on being present in consumers life in a relevant meaningful and in current times in a helpful manner right and come across it as a brand which understands which empathizes and it also has something to offer rather than just you know taking something back in return so and I'll touch upon that with two examples I don't want to take that right now and take time from Vasidha's presentation but to my mind it is actually bringing the four elements together it need not result into you know a click or some sort of visit back to your platform it can very well be consumer recalling you and you're activating some part of their memory in a relevant manner yeah and I think to add to that I think as Ajahn aptly put it because mobile is so omnipresent across the consumers journey right I think it's well understood that it's not just about the downstream metrics of just you know a click visit install and acquisition right but also engaging you know the upstream part of the consumer journey right which is around awareness which is around engagement and I'll also share you know in touch upon a few of those examples as we go through perfect so tell us one more thing before we move on Vasudha this kind of grid that you explained from transience to relevance converging the instantaneous are there any specific sectors and industries that benefit more from this you know entire cycle of you know consumer journey as compared to others in your experience what what what are the industries that you would say categories that kind of really take to this really well sure so now I think to be fair given you know mobile is such a large part of users time today I think this applies to almost every category and every vertical right especially when it comes to tapping into these mobile moments of truth but obviously you know also if you see you know brands and platforms which let's say have an online presence or a digital presence right like I was mentioning if you are already if you own your own online platform right either an app or a website or are present on a digital partner platform then you will tend to benefit more from some of this right so as an example if let's say you have your products already available either on your own platform or on an e-commerce partner's platform then the whole you know cycle from awareness to engagement to purchase can actually all happen on mobile right whereas if you are a vertical or a category which is only present in the offline or the retail world right which is very few now right then you will probably not be able to benefit as much from this because then the actual fulfillment or the purchase part gets left out of the mobile journey right so I think this is applicable to anyone who's present on digital and mobile which is pretty much everyone or almost every category right yeah perfect let's go on yeah so you know then breaking this down and I think it was a good way to link it here is you know how mobile actually touches each part of the consumer journey and I think both you and Ajin sort of talked about it but is not just in the last phase which is the acquisition phase right when the user is actually clicking visiting or installing but even you know upstream in the funnel which is the part around you know mobile can actually help brands understand their consumers identify them engage them and finally lead to the acquisition part so I'll touch upon an example for each of these phases right to give a quick sense of how it can play a journey play a role in the entire consumer journey so the first example is that of you know Lenovo so this is an example of understanding the consumer using mobile so here the you know the problem statement was that they wanted to collect feedback about the in-store experience from the visitors to the Lenovo stores and they wanted to do it in sort of a real time in a faster way compared to the traditional research methods so what they did is they used two elements on mobile one is the element of location audiences or location mapping where they mapped out all the Lenovo stores across the country and even competitor stores for that matter so that they could also benchmark against competitors so they mapped out all the stores in the physical world and then targeted those audiences who were going into the stores so they used location and then mobile surveys right so targeted those users with a small mobile questionnaire to ask them questions about their in-store experience and what this did is that you know something which would take them you know say a couple of months they were able to bring that down to a couple of weeks and you know collect results almost four times faster to understand what their consumers were saying about the in-store experience vis-a-vis some of the competition and the other aspect was that they could also you know of course here target not just the customers but use other demographic profiles of their audiences also to target the customers and understand what they were saying so this was an interesting way in which Lenovo leveraged mobile to understand consumers right the first part of sort of the consumer journey the second one here is an example of identifying your consumers so this is from Dao and this is actually an example from Indonesia where Dao was trying to you know reach out to women consumers across Indonesia and Jakarta and what they were running is sort of you know they launched a campaign called my hair my say campaign which was to inspire women to embrace you know their real selves and make them more confident about you know their appearances especially about their hairstyles and you know expressing their true selves so what they went about doing was that here they try to identify different women consumers combining you know things like of course age group but also you know where they work how they travel what kind of apps do they consume what kind of videos do they watch so different kind of basically women from young females to millennial to Gen X and so on and once they identified these consumers they were able to reach out to them in a very personalized you know way with the right content right which would appeal to these different segments and the goal was to get each of these segments then to share you know videos and stories about themselves you know about how they would want to express their themselves and this was pretty successful in the way that you know they managed to reach almost more than two million women through this and identify the right consumer segments through this and actually get more than 2000 of them to share you know their stories and photos and videos through social media as a channel so again a very interesting use of mobile to identify consumers but it's very interesting you know if you look at the contrast between the first case study about Lenovo versus the Dow and that kind of also tells you the you know the depth of mobile as a medium for a brand or a marketer in the first case you had a brand collecting specific inputs through a survey from people who visited their stores and the second one is more about curating content and engaging the same consumers who say I mean and you know as we have seen increasingly over the last few years content has become such a such a critical and important part of you know any brand's journey and you know I remember over the weekend I was reading this book which is the autobiography of Disney's current CEO Bob Iger and in 2005 when he took over the position of CEO he explains presenting to the board at that time how original content and Disney has always been a content company is going to drive original content along with technology are going to be the two driving forces for the company and today you see so many brands adopting the same strategy you know 14-15 years down the line you have large tech digital platforms brands doing that but tell me I mean do you see a kind of line getting crossed somewhere where you know when you're doing content on mobile content marketing what are the and everybody's doing it right everybody's almost everybody's doing it if I if I dare say that what are the three four areas that you've seen where brands are slipping up where you know things that we should not be doing brands not be doing but they're doing it just because you know everybody's doing it and they believe that's the right thing to do we all know what are the that it should be done and why it should be done but a lot of the brands are not getting it right why do you think they're not getting it right and what can they do to get it right possible sure so I think you know keeping the important thing is to keep in mind mobile as a medium right and what sort of it allows for right so I think one is of course looking at content which is relevant is important but it should be relevant in a way that you know it is also not say spooky right that you know I feel oh how did I sort of you know see this so I think there is a balance of things like you know the extent of personalization the extent of targeting you know that one can do to make it in balance so that the user doesn't feel that you know their privacy is being sort of you know taken for granted or the data is being taken away so I think it needs to be done with the right balance in that way I think the other is also you know making it while it's personalized also making it you know informative for the user right because it should not just be about your product or you know about your brand but if it also brings some value to the user then that content is obviously more you know valued in that way because it also is informing the user and bringing something in return right so I mean those are two things top of the mind which I think good brands keep in mind while you know are designing their content Achille you'd like to add to that sure I think you know just to build on what Vastha was saying I would say brands who do this well start from the brand story and the brand purpose of why they would want to do content yeah there is a lot of content clutter it's unlimited for the consumer but how does it fit in how your consumers perceive you on what is your role to play in their life I think that that linkage with content that you create is very important yes there are three purposes of content right it is to entertain or it is to engage what we see with Doug here or it is to educate right I think if if brands are very clear on the objectives that they desire from each of these different campaigns that they do on content and make content aligned to that objective things are much better than otherwise so for example a lot of my peers when I chat with them the first question comes is okay how are you using content to drive revenue on mintra right versus the question being what is the role content has to play with the customers who are coming to the platform already and how can we make them loyal customers or you know making them stick to the platform mode right they are two very different objectives now the content in the first case if I start with will be a very very functional piece which is just in a way it is very close to an ad right because I'm just selling a proposition because I want an easy return on that more often than not you know it'll be compared with anything else I do want a pure play ad and then over a period of time it will fall apart because it will not get to that level of ROI and it's not then that level of engagement when it comes to you know engaging content so so that that middle path is what people should avoid when engagement is the criteria I think the form could be extremely different right depending on whether you have a platform or whether you're doing it on social there are many many innovations that we have been seeing of late and every brand has their own story to tell you know through their consumers so so that I think I would be the first things I would keep in mind on start with your objective start with the alignment with the brand story and make sure over a period of time if this is an area that gives you competitive advantage in talking to your customers then build IPs which you can own and you know make them bigger over a period of time doing a lot of small you know things here and there which are cheap and cheerful for only moments yeah I think one of the big lessons that I have seen in the content marketing arena is about committing to it over a time period because there are too many brands who are just you know dipping their feet and getting out and in many cases it's just become a you know hashtag marketing you do a campaign you launch a hashtag and then you get out and consumers forget about it so I think that is a very big perilous thing you can do well hashtag campaigns in a year and they'll sink without a trace so committing to a campaign and investing in IPR as you said is extremely important for brands to understand yes the reason it falls apart in a lot of companies because when you know these conversations happen happen in the board room it is because people have not aligned to the why we are doing it yes we started with you know winning some awards in some cases we started doing it you know to just put our money behind the property which is already popular and getting some you know short term rebuff on that or we started because you know an opportunity came along the way and we did it or because everybody is doing it it's because you know yeah there is a pressure of being there right so so that I think conversation is very important and it's good to spend time on that and decide therefore the content that will meet that objective yes yeah right so so yeah so I think continuing on that right and also you know the next example I think links well to the part that you were talking about earlier right that it's not just about that ROI or that you know revenue generation when it comes to a mobile but also how do you do the desire based marketing right so this is an interesting one from our model is they recently had launched their a new product Cadbury Choco Bakes in you know the chocolate sort of Choco bakery segment and what they were looking to do is do some interesting things around videos right using mobile videos so this is an example of an interactive video where what we did is we created this and here the user basically doesn't know initially when they you know get in you know as to what is it that is behind this so it's it's sort of you can see like a game where they're trying to you know put together the pieces of the chocolate and see what happens and so it creates an anticipation it creates you know that thing in the mind of the user when they're interacting with this video and then once they've sort of come together it reveals you know the Choco Bake product along with the video and the interesting part here is that there is also a full journey to purchase which happens or fulfillment where this takes you to the e-commerce page to buy the product right so basically from creating that anticipation or to you know the reveal of the product which you would see typically otherwise on shelf and then buying it right so those sort of three moments coming together for the consumer in a very short span of time on mobile right so this is an example of that from the Montelay side of things yeah this is a very different example and I thought you know it'll be a good contrast because you know that was about an online purchase and this one is Maniwad which I think most of you would know is a fashion retail brand they did a very interesting thing where they use multiple you know moments across the consumer journey so obviously they've been using different mediums so this is from you know before the Covid times where they were also doing out-of-home advertising and then of course running on mobile and they wanted to bring together these different you know media channels in some way and also be able to measure the impact of those so what they did is to increase the effectiveness of their offline campaigns and the mobile campaigns they integrated the approach of the two so again using you know location targeting they brought together you know segments of users who had viewed their out-of-home ads on billboards people who had visited their stores in the past and some other audience segments and created sort of you know targeted pool of audiences and then targeted those users to actually go to their stores in Delhi and Calcutta so they were trying to drive traffic to their stores and then they measured it by you know looking at users who had only seen a mobile ad or only seen a billboard ad vis-a-vis users who had seen both ads right so to measure what was the effectiveness when people saw both ads in the offline and in the mobile world and they actually saw that you know there was an uplift in traffic of about you know anywhere between five to ten percent across their stores so this was an interesting one because this is not just about a mobile device and the platform you know strategy on that but bringing together also the offline media and creating an integrated approach as an example for engagement and acquisition so that's very interesting and I never you know view to seek from both of you on this as we have seen you know television continues to be the primary media on which marketers continue to invest money and one of the reasons is that television provides that big format splash so to say right and outdoor also similarly somewhere pitched into the larger picture where you have a larger than life kind of showcasing of a brand and Manivar is a very interesting example I remember another example from I think two years back Google used technology for their launch of some new features of Google Maps on through outdoor to curate some very interesting stuff my question to both of you is about you know how we are able to dovetail the use of traditional media along with mobile because you know there is no seamless data available okay today if you have a consumer who's seen ads on television and there's a buyer consumer who's walked into the store how do you kind of you know do that funneling where you are able to map the you know journey of the consumer that the consumer has got influenced by you know what has happened on outdoor or what's happened on television and then walked into your store I know your slide does say that you know they saw five to ten percent uptick right but that's large you know the larger helicopter sort of you know you uh I think you invest in television advertising also you invest in all forms of outdoor advertising also how do you kind of create this journey from you know traditional to new media where you're able to seamlessly uh you know kind of map the progression of the consumer and see okay you invested in television there is outdoor investment and then it resulted into you know conversions or the ROI that it came to you yeah the honest answer is you can't right that's a that's a starting point because there is no way to link or directly link the television to who you're reaching out on digital that's right there are ways to find the optimal media mix you know that's what we work towards so if you look at any campaign the purpose of the campaign is to build awareness to therefore build consideration and the intent to purchase and actually purchase is therefore over a period of time you know in our partnership with you know google and facebook what we have discovered it depending on the type of campaign there is a certain media mix where television has an important role to play in the top of the funnel you know whether it is building awareness or in some cases when you are talking to a completely new audience who doesn't trust you also building consideration for your brand because television in india at the end of the day is a medium of trust right for a lot of people it is still looked at like that so finding this right mix for you and your brand and your consumers is what I would stress more upon than trying to optimize a journey across now of course there are certain tools you know which help you measure the audiences which watch your tv ad what were they doing on digital there are a bunch of these tools which are there which help you to guide at least directionally you know as to which genres of which channels or which audiences are performing better for you but that is also you know still the tip of the iceberg I would say right it is not a very very seamless view the way I can have a very seamless end to end view in a digital campaign today across the funnel that is not possible with the same level of granularity with tv but tv has a role to play you know in every campaign and in some campaigns you know very large campaigns we don't actually spend at all on tv it's a purely digital campaign but in some it is important because we are trying to deliver a message to audiences at scale and at the same time want them to know about us and then convert at the same time in a very short period of time so that's where tv helps. Wasutha when you go pitching to clients and you talk about you know getting them to invest more and more and more money into mobile and a lot of these clients are also tv heavy advertisers how do you kind of pitch you know story of provision right if I mean because eventually you're not trying to pit one media against the other mobile has its advantages so does television what you need is for them to kind of look at the larger picture and tell them how mobile fits into their larger strategy and not just seek more money into mobile at the expense of tv so how do you build that story that narrative where a person investing in television OH can reap the full benefits of investing on mobile. Sure so I think now there are two or three key aspects of it right for mobile vis-a-vis say traditional media I think the first one is around you know just the time spent because it ultimately all starts from the user right so where is the user spending time today and I mean we all know we've seen the stats is that you know time spent on mobile is increasing right and pretty much compared to print or even you know outdoors I think user eyeballs are largely on mobile right so I think there is an argument of user time spent and how you know brands want to capture that right and I think the second is around you know reach earlier TV used to be considered huge reach but again we know that you know the reach argument on mobile is also for a country like India it's it's very high right it's we are sitting on a base of about 400 450 million users so both time spent and reach I think are extremely I would say critical points for mobile as a medium and I think the last one which beats probably you know traditional medium is around measurability right because like even Ajahn was saying today any campaign which is run on a digital channel you can have an end-to-end view on the entire funnel right the impact the attribution everything which is not available on traditional media and that's where you know as a channel I would say it it brings a lot of you know at least sanity in a marketer's life right the measurement aspect so that's the third important point while you know talking of mobile as a medium. Yeah but you know just to add to Vasukha it is still very unclear because of lack of direct attribution for television even the current ratings is very aggregate right even for television you don't exactly know who's watching what so which is why if you see some of the biggest technology companies who have all the data and who sell data and sell advertisement go big on television and they have to launch their new products and campaigns especially in this market right so there is yes there is significant reach of mobile and you know especially for a very targeted cohort for smaller campaigns you don't need to go beyond that and optimize with your targeted cohorts but when you have to think of scale campaigns you know there is a very clear role that the mass media plays it's it's it's a factor of you know the kind of audience and your objectives in that context that's correct yes as I said you know 220 per word so IPL at such a short notice I mean they are they know what they are signing on yeah so I think of course I'm not saying that you know TV or other medium doesn't have a role to play it was more around how you know you would pitch mobile into the overall medium yeah yeah great you I think you have one more example to go I think yeah so I we can quickly cover it to just keeping time in mind so yeah this is just another one which was more of you know a mobile only or a digital only brand which is you know me show where it is they sign up women resellers right to start their businesses on the platform so this is a fairly you know simple one in that way where they wanted to target women from tier two tier three cities across the country and again you know looking at elements around you know how do you reach them at the peak time in the mornings how do you reach people in you know tier two tier three cities retargeting the audiences who've already you know seen the ads so that you get most of them to sign up so those were some of the things that you know we were done on this one and got almost 1.5 lakhs sort of orders placed from these you know women resellers so that was again around engagement and acquisition so I think with that probably you know hand over to Ajit and he can sort of share I'll just stop sharing my screen thank you thank you Asweta before I do the next set of questions maybe Ajit can start his talk and then I'll keep interjecting and agree. So great thanks Asweta that's a very good overall perspective you have set on the moments of truth you know it's an age-old concept now being rephrased in many different ways with every generation of marketing and mobile has just made it so easy and so attributable as you rightly put you know in being able to measure these different moments in the consumer's journey and being able to take action so what I wanted to share you know building on some of this thinking is an example from how we at Mintra applied some of these learnings and especially in the first you know couple of months during right after lockdown so between April and May when there was a lot of pressure on the business and consumers mindset had shifted suddenly in a very very different zone how some of these experiments played out for us and what things we did as we learned on the go and moments became a very important part of that journey for us yeah so see these were the starting points for us as we learned consumers had more time suddenly at their hands they were sitting at home even though they were very busy in household you know chores but they still were saving a lot of time in travel and otherwise and then engagement therefore was becoming a mainstream for a lot of consumers across apps and content was an important part of that. Mind for a lot of consumers wanted positive and meaningful intelligences there was a lot of bad news around COVID you were counting cases and you know they were betting they were betting happening also on what will be the next day number and you needed opportunities to step away from that you know whether it is through learning through talent showcases a lot of you know men became chefs a lot of people became singers and also hearing inspiring stories whether it is you know of community workers whether it is of you know you know certain other folks going through a very tough time and coming out of it in COVID I think it was that piece consumers were looking forward to very very keenly and of course lastly money was under pressure and you know saving your wallet was very very important for consumers and particularly for you know sectors like fashion where we operate which partly is also called as discretionary category there was enough and more pressure and very little demand especially in the first few weeks and of course lockdown didn't allow us to deliver to consumers anyways so so this was the context for us and the one thing we realize is if there is one thing we can do is to be empathetic to our consumers I think it's it's a tough time for everybody people are losing jobs people are not people are not safe so how can we come across as a brand as a platform which adds value to consumers in this time and when the time comes I think consumers will come back at some point soon but how do we get this time to pass through so this is where the entire thinking started and on the first one you know the engagement piece was the first thing we tried to crack now Mintra in the last couple of years has been investing in a lot of content and engagement initiatives anyways and fortunately for us at this time we had the opportunity to bring a lot of that together and also because we had a machinery with us on content creation we were able to bring out a lot of new formats and converted the entire Mintra into a fashion content destination right so even though our number of users and traffic fell significantly it never went down to a very small number there was a significant you know healthy number where people continuously came to Mintra app and what they saw was nothing about commerce or shopping it was about learning about fashion from the best in the industry which is where we had the bunch of these master classes which were paid earlier or you know in a way paid through points which is a loyalty program but we made it free for all consumers we had this IP Mintra fashion superstar which we again brought alive because a lot of consumers had not consumed it before and this is an eight episode you know benching we acquired them and then a lot of games because gaming was the other sector which was picking up very well and a lot of casual games around fashion around building appreciation for you know these delivery heroes and so on which you brought alive on the platform and the last thing is you know everyone was talking about fitness you know working out from home so we have this feature called Mintra move where you can actually get points for the number of steps you take so we encourage people to you know walk in their homes or you know do their exercise and you know get benefits out of it so some of these initiatives which helped us you know drive engagement with the consumers on a regular basis then I think in April made of April we launched another feature which was Mintra studio now the idea behind this was again to build on the concept of learning today as the country stands right a majority of population is still very early in their maturity journey on understanding fashion most of the influence of in fashion happens through you know the film industry whether it is Bollywood to Hollywood any of the film industries right we look up to stars for fashion inspiration but the nuances of fashion in terms of the colors the you know what goes well with the body shape or skin tones what are the trends I think there is there are only very few set of consumers who understand that nuance as well and we thought why not bring this alive for our consumers going back to you know what was talking about in the early part of the you know engagement and discovery journey how do you make yourself useful to the consumer and also number to your point this is not about being able to sell them anything it is about you know giving them an opportunity to learn opportunity to get inspired and if you are impulsive there is an opportunity to shop every look that is available because it is a commerce platform at the end of the day of course no shopping was happening that time so people were just wish listing for later but that was the underlying thought so if you have your personal fashion assistant then that is what Mintra studio was we got in a lot of influences you know hundreds of influencers who signed up with us during this period we put exclusive shows around fashion on this lot of celebrity gossip across the world coming on this and we suddenly saw that you know all kinds of consumers started to engage with this so typically you would assume you know there is a certain category of you know metro tier one consumer who likes some of this content but the engagement from tier two tier three consumers was far more or you know higher than some of the metro consumers the kind of content people were consuming was also very counterintuitive at times right again you know people were looking at a lot of occasion where which actually they were not shopping for but they were probably getting inspired for what they may want when good times come back so we got a lot of these learnings which helped us think about how do we target these consumers you know later when we go you know with our campaigns when things open up so that was the second piece the third piece was you know around finding those interesting moments where consumers find them you know during the covid period and seeing if we can create some meaningful engagement around this so you see a few examples here right everybody was quarantined at home with their kids and for the first time you know you were actually sitting and working in front of your kids you were there for them throughout the throughout the period and they had a point of view they weren't they couldn't go out to play they couldn't go out to their school so there was a point a few kids were developing on what does covid mean to us so we brought that alive we had a lot of you know stories shared by the minthra employees on what's happening with their kids daily content that went on for almost a month month and a half and really liked by our audiences and we've got a lot of responses from them also on what's happening with their kids and their homes the other interesting pieces you know to build some positivity uh on on what's happening around uh fashion is also a category which actually is uh you know at at you know sits at a very important juncture of culture defining moments so if you see a couple of these examples you know uh why how the uh skirts came in for women uh or why lipstick became important you know after the world war there are cultural context to this and you know then people forget and they become important you know business as usual for a lot of folks so we brought these stories alive and for a for a lot of people who didn't look at fashion that way it started to become interesting to read more about it and engage more about it you know on things that they may not have seen before then of course we had a bunch of things on the platform around you know uh fitness wellness fashion home and games that I spoke about we took a lot of our employees who shared their stories on fashion how they are using this time to get more uh or enhance their skill sets and using using fashion therapy as a way to come out of this situation uh the depressing situation we were in uh that was something that our audience is really appreciated this is my thing if I can ask you uh interject here uh it's very interesting one of the key aspects advantages of mobile as a tool especially for marketers has been this ability to personalize right because you know a lot about you know what your consumer is doing and personalization then leads into kind of two uh funnels if I can put it that way uh you want to personalize and at the same time do mass level targeting right and these two are very difficult balls to juggle you know they don't necessarily you know go together personalization and mass targeting and personalization also at some point starts you know crossing the red line of you know privacy concerns so how do you kind of you know look at uh these two kind of items uh if you have any thoughts on that no I think uh see personalization the ideal personalization is when consumers and even realize that uh the platform is helping them think and find things which they always wanted to uh which is why the best recommendation engines are the ones where the consumer choice is secondary and you know the recommended choice becomes a primary uh mode of consumption um so so the way we look at personalization I think there are a lot of nuances uh to that when you talk about from a technical standpoint but at a very high level uh you know even being able to figure out uh uh uh you know at a very I would say upper set of parameters in terms of if you're a fashion user for example uh and you are shopping from um your app for yourself or for yourself and some of your family members the personalization answer could be very different um so what we do is we after every uh sort of purchase we ask people uh who did you shop for all it for yourself your your wife your kids or someone else in the family so that that is one area we get you know clear signals from consumers as to uh whether I really like this or I bought it for someone else second basis your uh past purchases uh basis your you know brand preferences basis your type of styles type of price points that you browse that you wish list and then eventually that you convert on that you buy there are a lot of signals that come uh which helps us at least showcase the right set of things when consumer comes to the platform um I think when it comes to the privacy uh uh first of all we don't get any you know private information from the consumer which we need to use to be able to showcase anything to them right most of the information is generic and aggregated to a certain cohort level it is not at an individual level uh from a preference standpoint uh when we talk about mass campaigns I think uh there the objective of course is to talk about uh common themes that resonate with most of the audiences and that is largely off the platform or let's say the first few banners of the homepage when you are on a platform but when you go into your deeper journeys on the app or on the platform I think personalization then takes over and makes it relevant for you if that helps answer your question about yes yeah so this was the other thing I think which uh was a new innovation from our creative team which was uh pick up different moments that people are in you know during the quarantine period and you know create interesting minthra doodles and uh whether it is thanking the social uh your community workers or the pride month or you know just learning something interesting at home or fitness we did a series of these uh and every day when you opened the app you had something new to see and engage with which was fun for a lot of consumers at least even if they they don't want to shop there's something to share and talk about then on the 12th of May when the honorable prime minister announced the entire strategy of uh you know the next big push get out of covid and vocal for local what the theme that he said you know we were able to turn it around and you know at 10 in the night uh we launched this uh we always had this on the store but it was never positioned in the same way uh there's a lot of artisans who work with us as a platform but thinking and packaging it in the right way for the consumer at that point in time gave us far more goodness than otherwise it would have given us right so that's the other piece around uh there was a moment uh of proof for consumer and uh you know this is how we try to experiment with that the last one you know this is now getting into May when things opened up at least partially in in some part of the country uh we wanted to go with a salience campaign after a long break and we were probably one of the first brands who went and did a proper salience campaign so two three things were coming out as clear insights uh from all the data we had seen you know in the last month and a half one was people had started shopping categories which they called as fashion essentials right which is grooming beauty ethnic wear you know casual wear at home which is good either for doing video calls like these or good for just you know refreshing what they have run out of in a way a lot of it uh kids wear uh because you know kids grow faster than you imagine uh and a lot of other so-called non-essential fashion categories actually had a very very rapid demand so even within that you know the way we thought about this campaign is to bring these two forefront uh in the messaging and also bring a positive story on two counts one is there are these little joints uh which people look for even in these tough times at their homes with their family with their you know near and dear ones and then safety is a very important part of anything that you do to choose uh your or you know decide on your shopping choices people used to you see they do that right they they keep the packet out for two days or one day before they start using it so uh we did a specific campaign around this uh showcasing the mantra safety procedures as well as showcasing how we are relevant in your life while you are in the COVID situation I'll just show you a video to get a glimpse of this that was the idea we did a series of these on men's grooming on beauty and ethnic and the idea was to do some fun on some of these interesting moments that are in consumers lives and see if there is a conversation we can create from there uh so yeah so this was these were some of the experiments you know from starting with no commerce and only engagement to slightly moving towards some commerce and then you know a proper campaign where we can make it meaningful for the consumer um happy to take any questions uh and any thoughts that you may have thank you thank you Achinta I thought when you were talking about empathy you would also end with saying that you offered 90 person discounts to your customers we do that sometimes yeah I'm sure you do uh since we are kind of out of time what I'm going to do is I'm just going to start taking audience questions and I also had a couple of points left and I'll try and uh you know combine that with these points I have a question for you Achinta and I'd like us to also pitch in here you know one of the things and this is also a part of a question that has come in on the dashboard one of the things that you've all seen is that uh you know there is a certain kind of expectation from an advertiser from traditional media especially I'm talking television here right in terms of what is the kind of delivery you have what is the measurement metrics you have what is the kind of uh you know like you yourself said the ratings just gives you a very you know helicopter view so to say whereas the expectation when it comes to media like mobile digital especially mobile is far far more in depth you need far more insights you need to drive ROI you need to you know drive significantly many more metrics matrices as compared to what you do on television of course there are advantages of being on TV but do you feel as a you know brand owner that somewhere the kind of the the the you know it's it's kind of pitted against mobile uh in terms of demand for accountability from digital media especially mobile is vastly higher and different from what it is from say traditional media like a television or an outdoor now well I didn't get the last part of the question can just uh uh reclaim it again for me so what I'm asking is when you compare digital media especially mobile versus traditional media like television and outdoor and outdoor is the demand for accountability and measurement metrics are more from digital media as opposed to traditional media and is it kind of balanced against uh mobile and in favor of TV and outdoor do you seek similar accountability from you know the spends that you do on television and outdoor that you seek from say your spends on mobile or digital yeah I mean it is a matter of what is available I think uh given a choice everyone would want that kind of accountability from uh non-digital spends also uh I think the industry if I may say has got used to a certain set of benchmarking of the TV spends and the TV outcomes um which is a lot more convenient than uh the the way it should be if you ask me so you are absolutely right in saying that the pressure on digital to deliver more because the metrics are there is far higher than the pressure on the non-digital industry and I think it's just a matter of time if you if you ask me that uh you know the offline industry will have to evolve and start providing better measurement solutions to brands and this is a very clear time right I mean if you see this a lot of brands cut away their TV spends but this they continue doing something on digital because they were able to justify the arrow yeah it also creates opportunity for digital yes correct so Vasuta if I were to flip it does that make you feel agree and does that give you a opening an opportunity to kind of you know pull more spends from uh you know other traditional media I don't feel agreed uh for sure never but yeah I think it's it's a matter of availability like Ajahn said right I think some of the traditional media have not had those measurement uh you know sort of capabilities so maybe I think we've sort of shot ourselves in the foot on the mobile digital side by making so many uh metrics available but I think jokes apart obviously like you saw right I think in the report that came out yesterday as well uh the pitch Madison report that digital actually I think by virtue of the fact that it is measurable and ROI driven didn't see yeah I was able to you know still hold steady to some extent in the first half of the year vis-a-vis other media and that's one of the reasons right so definitely I see it as an opportunity right to see how you know some of these spends move from traditional media obviously going back to the previous point I think every media has its place in the media mix for the right reasons right because you do want to achieve a certain objective with a certain audience and that's where the rule comes in but it's definitely an opportunity I think it's an opportunity overall for the ecosystem which I think different players have tried to see how you even make for example television more measurable or addressable right we have things like connected TV and advanced TV which are coming into the mix now right increasingly which will possibly solve for some of these things in future so I think there is an opportunity there too so I'll stay with you as a mob since you uh since you work with a large number of platforms one of the key uh uh discussion points over the last two three years and it keeps coming up and you know going down repeatedly is this issue about you know fake traffic's bots and you know fake traffic driving uh you know a lot of conversations on some platforms how much in your conversation with brands and marketers do you think that has become what is becoming an issue right and what do you do to address that you know I jokingly tell you know a lot of times when we do calls you know team calls and I see 30 you know name logos on the screen without seeing the faces I tell them I don't know that I'm talking to bots or people right unless the camera's switched on so how much of uh you know uh this has become a concern ad fraud has become a concern with marketers and you know what is the way to address that because eventually as the size of the mobile pie grows even more accountability will be sought right and I think this this can become a this has potential to become a pain point no I think it's an important point for sure however I think it's an absolutely important point because if any brand is spending money right they want to be spending it on you know valid traffic valid users uh and so on so it's an absolutely critical point and it is of course uh you know an important uh discussion point in a lot of forums today I think the way to tackle that is one of course uh is now I mean as the fraud sort of bot traffic ecosystems at all there's also a lot of tools which have evolved right to provide that measurement and transparency to both platforms and brands right looking at this fraud as to how do you weed that out how do you block it how do you tackle that so there is of course that which is available and I think there is obviously a responsibility on platforms themselves the kind of policies and verifications and checks that you implement at your end right to uh to sort of weed out the traffic which may not be genuine or will be brought which may be bought so I think there's a responsibility on platforms themselves and then I think from the brand side obviously there are you know third party tools and partners which can provide sort of that double verification or double check for some of these things at least those are you know a couple of things which are evolving to you know provide that confidence in the kind of users and traffic that you get. Achille does it bother you when you're spending money to you know figure out what's going on? Yeah it is a concern I think at frauds it's a it's a big issue and we work a lot with our partners to constantly monitor this and continue to prune it whether it is you know just traffic you know the bot clicks or even the fake installs a lot of time you know we have fake intentions to you know our loyalty points which is something we have put a lot of guardrails around so I mean see it is it is a thing which is part and parcel of living in the current digital world I don't think uh you know there is beyond a point you should stress get stressed about it but uh there in every uh digital marketing strategy I believe this has to be an integral part of the thinking uh and not be one of the things that you try to solve for once you're taking care of everything else so that's the way that's the only suggestion I would have. Perfect since we're out of time I'll take one last question the question from Ritu Mittal is going cookie-less by big publishers impacting business for marketers platforms if yes how's it being addressed? Sure so uh I think of course you know this whole cookie ID a change which is slated to happen it will impact marketers especially let's say you know anyone who's built a cookie pool to identify target users right some of the things we talked about earlier um so because obviously for most people who are operating more on you know the website of things it is uh a tough one but I think if you see given that there is time for that change right there are other user identifiers that you know brands and marketers can build and I mean for Arjun of course because Minthra is a largely I mean there's a good part which is an app platform right it's possibly easier but there are app-based identifiers right there are uh PII-based identifiers which you know platforms have which will possibly pave the way for you know some of this as cookies disappear and some of these other identifiers you know gain traction so I think that's that's one area possibly you know to invest in there is work around you know cross-device graphs where you're trying to map cookie IDs to you know other identifiers and that's again another area where we see you know brands and platforms investing effort in in building these cross-device graphs so that again should help in the impact some of this will create down the line so if I can just add to that question and Arjun asked you one last time apart from you know in fact of a cookie-less world if there are two three demands you had from mobile publishers in terms of measurement more accountability what would those be I think measurement is there accountability of course is one and I would also say you know understanding the business of the customer which in case let's say is the brand you know is extremely important right so a lot of times we see partners coming and saying okay we have xx reach we have this kind of engagement so we are a good platform for you to invest behind but that is devoid of a basic understanding that there are certain platforms which have already become a part and parcel of every brand now right in terms of marketing so there's a certain kind of audience reach that you already have at the right frequency the question is are you solving anything incrementally on top of that is the number one thing is there a unique audience that you're bringing to the table that is not accessible otherwise for example or are you finding you know within the same audience have you found a niche where you can find drive a very different kind of engagement with that audience and that's the proposition and lastly again the objective right is the objective to build reach or is the objective you know action ability and where do you stand in that funnel where the brand will be having a need at that point in time thank you thank you to both of you Vasuta Achint for taking time out this is a conversation that can take another two hours but we have a time limitation thank you for so many people for joining us on a Wednesday evening anybody who has further questions can take the conversation offline i'm sure your contact details will be available through the exchange via team and as we as Vasuta mentioned yesterday's pitch medicine reform said that digital is the only media only medium this year which is likely to grow 20% as opposed to traditional media which is likely uh seeing going to see a degrade this year uh increased growth will mean even more demands on accountability on measurability and 20% make no mistake is no small number for digital it has already reached a you know critical mass it's already i think 15 000 odd crores and 20 percent jump will take it take it into the you know it is already in the big leap it will possibly this year will be an inflection point for digital media where it might become most likely it'll become the second largest you know media for ad spends and as we all know 70-80% of spends that are going into digital are going on to mobile media so you know mobile as well and truly arrived you know and uh and this year in india especially is going to be the inflection point with that thank you for joining us and till the time we do the next series of the mark our tech leadership uh thank you for joining us and have a safe evening thank you so much thank you never thank you thank you everybody bye