 Good morning and good evening to our viewers joining us from around the world. My name is Stephanie Ogorzalec, and I am a senior policy advisor in the Secretary's Office of Global Women's Issues at the U.S. Department of State. Every October 11th, we celebrate International Day of the Girl Child, an international day first declared by the United Nations in 2012 to highlight and address the needs and challenges girls face while promoting girls empowerment and their fulfillment of their human rights. Before we begin, I would like everyone to understand we might discuss topics that involve sexual assault or abuse that may make people uncomfortable. Everything we discuss will be to further promote the need to respect girls' human rights. There are many needs and challenges to discuss when it comes to issues facing girls, but for today's Facebook Live, we are discussing why equal opportunities play a vital role in girls' empowerment and why increasing awareness of gender disparities is so important. We know that barriers such as domestic violence, early-enforced marriage, female genital mutilation and cutting, and lack of access to education prevent girls from fully realizing their rights and potential. These barriers also prevent girls from receiving the necessary knowledge and skills that would enable them to participate in the economy of tomorrow. So today we look forward to a discussion with you about how to tackle these barriers and how we can best support and empower girls to achieve their full potential. It is my pleasure to introduce today's speakers, who collectively have a breadth of knowledge in human rights, women's issues, and gender equality. Joining us in studio is Rachel Clement. She is a policy advocate for the International Center for Research on Women, or ICRW. In this role, Rachel leads the organization's advocacy to advance adolescent girls' empowerment and ending violations of girls' rights. Rachel is also the co-chair of Girls Not Brides USA. Joining us virtually from Islamabad, Pakistan, is Sidra Humayun. Sidra is a master trainer in sexual and gender-based violence and works with sexual assault survivors in Pakistan. She has conducted several researches on child survivors of sexual abuse. Thank you for joining us, Sidra. I would also like to extend a special welcome to viewing groups in Pakistan. They are joining us virtually from US Embassy Islamabad and the US Consulate in Karachi. Thank you for joining us today. Before we get started, I would like to also thank all of our online viewers joining us on Facebook. We definitely want to hear your thoughts and opinions during the discussion. If you have questions you would like us to answer, please write them in the comment section below. I'll start our discussion by asking our viewers to answer the Facebook poll question. Please tell us which setting do you believe is the most critical to empowering girls and achieving gender equality. A. Home B. Schools C. Community or D. Religious Institutions. We will read the poll results later during the discussion. Again, to our viewers, please tell us which setting do you believe is the most critical to advancing gender equality in your country. I'll ask each of our panelists a related question. What is an area civil society needs to focus on to help empower girls and better protect their human rights? Rachel, can we start with you? Yeah, thank you so much for having me. So as the co-chair of Girls Not Brides USA, I focus a lot of my work on ending child marriage. Child marriage is where one or both parties are under the age of 18 in a marriage or informal union. And we've found that child marriage is both a violation of girls' rights in and of itself, but that it also leads to a violation of other human rights including the rights to education, the right to be free from violence. Often girls are taken out of school in order to be married or once they're married they drop out of school. And girls who are married before they turn 18 are just more likely to experience domestic or intimate partner violence. They're much more likely to get pregnant early and have their children more frequently than their peers who are able to wait just a little bit longer to get married. So I would really recommend that civil society organizations focus on the issue of child marriage because it intertwines with so many other human rights issues in ways that we can empower girls. I think there's a huge moral reason to care about child marriage. There's also an economic impact. ICRW partnered with the World Bank recently and found that child marriage is costing the global economy trillions of dollars. And in Pakistan alone it's costing billions of dollars in lost potential that girls could be earning and contributing to the economy. So I think there's a moral and economic case to be made for really focusing efforts on ending child marriage, addressing the needs of girls who have already been married and just ensuring that girls are able to go to school and be girls. Thanks, Rachel. Sidra, maybe we'll go to you for your response. Sidra, I think you may be muted. Should I? Yes. If I talk about child marriage data in Pakistan from January 2019 to June 2019, 40 cases of child marriage has been recorded in Pakistan according to the Sahil report. And this number could be seen like maybe not in triple figure maybe, but 40 girls has been like a victim of this thing that they've been part of child marriage. I think regarding civil society, we really need to think 10 years ahead for our girls by gauging that what threats of our girls are facing right now. We need to introduce our girls through STEM, I think through technology and issues which they are facing because their sex or their gender rules because they are vulnerable due to that. So these are the things that we really need to emphasize being a civil society member and lots of awareness needs to be created in this regard. Thank you, Sidra. What do you both think are some of the greatest obstacles to achieving gender equality in communities where social norms are deeply rooted? And how can these obstacles be overcome? Sidra, maybe we'll go back to you first for your thoughts on this. I think majorly the one of the thing is toxic masculinity is there that women are facing it day and night. And we can see this thing in if I quote you one of the example in Pakistan. We see that people are just running on the bikes and they are showing their all the power towards the society. We need to channelize this kind of energy by channeling it in a positive way. So this could be another way that this can be addressed. Other than that, I think the policy and legal frameworks need to be reviewed and by that we can channelize it. I think that the girls in communities are quite afraid and because of their gender roles, they are in a problem. These are the things. Thank you. Could you tell us more about the policy and legal frameworks that you think need to be changed? Actually the procedural lekunas are there. Though Pakistan has very good laws, we are having enough laws and recently we are like passing a Xenoballert bill for regarding the child sexual abuse. But I think the procedural lekunas need to be addressed very quickly, very fastly. We need to give a lot of attention towards it. And when one of the survivors faces the court procedure, it is very slow. It victimized the survivor or the child or a girl a lot. And I think one of the very good step has been taken in KP that child courts has been developed just a day ago and they've been inaugurated. So these are the things that we need to address. One of the important things that in a legal and policy framework we need to see that officers who are keen to handle the GBB agenda based violence survivors or victims that they should be deployed for such investigations for such tasks. Otherwise the girl child or any victim who is facing such issues will be always in trouble. Thank you Cedra. Maybe we'll go to Rachel for the same question. Oh wow, I have so much to say and so many thoughts on this. Cedra, I loved your example of girls riding bikes. I think there are really innovative and interesting ways of helping girls to see themselves differently and having society see them differently as well. One of the programs that my organization ICRW works on is GEMS, Gender Equity Movement in Schools. We work with sixth and seventh graders and it's both a school based sort of classroom exercise but they also take homework home and they talk to their siblings and their parents and their grandparents. And they just think critically about gender norms and gender roles. And adolescence is a time when you're thinking about all of that stuff anyway and questioning what resonates with you and what doesn't. And so the program doesn't give all the answers. It doesn't say this gender role is good, this gender role is bad. It just sort of helps kids to kind of question and interrogate the world they want to live in and build. And we've had it in place for 10 years now. I recently went to Vietnam and saw the results of the program. And it was just really interesting to hear from the, we do it with boys and girls and to hear from both of them about what they took away from it. So for some of the boys they were surprised that they didn't invite their sisters to play soccer with them after school because girls don't play soccer. But following doing this program they started inviting their sisters to play soccer with them and it turns out their sisters actually are really great goalie. And I think there's just a really subtle mindset change that resonates and has kind of a ripple effect in other areas. Like wow, if a girl can play soccer could she also be an astronaut? Could she be more than a wife and a mother? Could she go to college? And I really like programs like that that don't sort of come in and tell you what to think or tell you what to change. But sort of work with you to develop the community norms and social change that you want to see happen in your community. And I think that's where we see the greatest change. So if girls don't traditionally ride bicycles as in this country they didn't, you know, 50, 100 years ago. We actually like changed a lot of the way we wear clothing. Women were not allowed to wear bifurcated garments and pants for a very long time. It was illegal. But once women started riding bicycles all of a sudden they were able to wear bloomers and pants. And once they wore pants, you know, we changed the world. So I think just those little things that help women to see themselves differently, help girls to see themselves differently and help society to see their potential are really critical. And just one other point that Cedra made that I wanted to talk about was in Pakistan 21% of girls are married before their 18th birthday. Compared to other countries it's not a particularly high prevalence rate. But because Pakistan has such a large population that's actually 2 million girls. And it's quite big. It's the sixth highest absolute rate of child marriage in any country in the world. And child marriage is deeply rooted in gender inequality and beliefs around what girls can and should be. It can also be exacerbated by poverty, crisis and security. But I think, you know, if seeing a girl on a bicycle, if seeing a girl playing a sport or excelling academically is going to help shift mindsets around what girls can do and be. It can have just enormous ripple effects. And I wanted to check my notes before I gave an exact figure. But if we could end child marriage in Pakistan alone, Pakistan would see a $6.2 billion increase. Just as a result of what those girls are capable of. So yeah, I think bicycles and sports and other things are really important. I would like to add, thank you so much for quoting different figures and statistics in front of us. I strongly believe that we need to dismantle the baggage that we are carrying since centuries. That we give birth to girls and then we are under this emotional baggage. I think that we need to dismantle this discourse of having all these disbeliefs and any practices which are related to a woman. Pakistan is enjoying more than 27 pro-woman legislations in Pakistan in the last decade. And that is one of the very important thing that in South Asia, maybe Pakistan is one of the country which is having a number of good laws. So dismantling all these disbeliefs and patriarchal things. I think we all are together here in Pakistan, in Karachi now but we are looking forward and generating this debate. That this discourse should be changed. And if I talk related to child marriage, we definitely believe that a girl out of school will definitely face problems. And one important thing is that why girls are out of school? One of the major thing is their mobility issues. The woman, a girl child, whenever she reached the probity, she is always considered to be confined in the house. Recently we have seen that girls have been given lots of burqas and burqas. So this is also one of very important things to note that this kind of actions and notions can be some kind of a problem for the girls. So dismantling all these issues and addressing them is one of the major things. Thank you both. I want to go back to a point that I think you both raised about the role that men and boys can play in advancing gender equality and sort of dealing with these social norms. What can men and boys do to promote equality and does championing girls' rights actually have positive impacts for men and boys? Maybe we'll go back to you Rachel first and then over to Cedra. Sure. I mean ICRW's research has shown that you aren't going to change gender and equitable norms without engaging men and boys. So they absolutely need to be a part of any initiative to empower girls or empower women. But more than that, gender equality is very beneficial to men. Cedra referenced toxic masculinity. Promundo and other organizations have done really great research on the ways in which really rigid gender norms hurt men. Depending on the social context and everything, every culture is different but in a lot of cultures including our own men are discouraged from expressing a lot of emotions. Unless they're anger or certain socially acceptable social norms but crying, being tender, caring for others are really discouraged and seen as a weakness or a feminine social trait. And so that hurts men. It hurts men when they're not able to express when they're sad and when they're really happy. And to make little baby noises with their child without being somehow seen as less manly or masculine. And so I think when men are able to fully express themselves and when boys are really able to fully express themselves too because these gender norms don't just happen in adulthood. We start really early. We start at the moment of birth or in some countries like our own. The second someone's pregnant and has a big gender reveal party. We place these norms and these expectations on how you're supposed to act based on your sex that are really unfair and can be really restrictive and are really harmful for men's mental health. And so what we've seen is that when you're able to have more gender equitable norms, everyone is happier, workloads are more balanced and everyone's just able to better express themselves and live their lives in a way that really resonates with them. Thanks Rachel. Yeah, two very important points I would like to mention here that we cannot generalize all men by having a toxic masculinity and tagging them with this label. Boys and men are already our companions. They are already supporting us in many in our civil society even we can see and they are trying to untag themselves with this tag. Another thing is very important that boys and boys and men who are into this all kind of exercise that they are in domestic violence in any kind of abuse or they it needs. It indicates that state needs to start or initiate some researches on the behavior and attitude of such people. This is very important because so far whenever I'm dealing with lots of criminals and victims side by side handling rape survivors or domestic violence survivors. I can see that there is some issues and we need to address these issues and men and boys should be given a positive message about this issue. And I hope by giving them a positive message they will be part of us like previously they were supporting us. Thank you Cedra. We love male champions for gender equality. Thank you both for that. So let's go back to our viewing groups in Islamabad and Karachi for some questions from you Islamabad will start with you. Do you have a question for us. Hello. My name is Shaira Sultan and I am working with Azure Foundation as education specialist. My question was are there any models which have effectively addressed gender issues through curriculum particularly at school level. So you can share your knowledge with us. Primarily we are working in education sector and this is you know gender inequality is been there for so many years. And it's a societal educational problem I would say. So the best thing that through which we can address this very great issue is education. But for education we need to have the tools to transfer the knowledge to the people. So how effectively we can do that. We need to have that material that curriculum with us. So if there are any good practices that you know so you can share with us. Thank you. So I believe the question was about education and particular curriculums that that might sort of help get at some of what we're talking about here in terms of addressing gender norms and really looking at gender equality from a young age for girls and boys. Maybe we'll start with you Sidra since you're you're sitting right there by the microphone. Many models can be seen globally that they are doing well. Pakistan is also replicating those those models. First of all if I really I came to know that few schools I can see that they are doing great on this behalf. And the thing I can see is that again I will mention again my earlier words that they are addressing the patriarchal disbelief among society and gender. Gender they are addressing the gender roles within schools by telling them how to see you how to do stitching how to get these kind of initiatives are being taken because as all of us sitting in this room and everywhere. We know that gender due to gender rules all kind of discrimination and these gender disparities are part of it. So I think these models and gender roles can be addressed and then it should be part of the curriculum and part of education. Thank you. Rachel over to you. Yeah I mentioned ICRW's GEMS program the Gender Equity Movement in schools. It's a two year curriculum that's in it's in schools and we do a really innovative training with teachers as well because all of us exist in society and perpetuate gender norms and social norms around gender. And so one of the things that we've found in that research is that we really need to have teachers go through a training to so that for example they're not calling on boys more than girls. And sort of perpetuating some of the norms that that raise boys voices louder or encourage boys to talk more or be more confident. And we've just had really great results after 10 years of implementing this program. It's in six countries I think right now. I visited Vietnam and saw how we were implementing the program there. And the other thing that I really liked about it was that it was hyper contextualized. They'd initially translated the program into Vietnamese in Hanoi. But the program was being implemented in Central Vietnam and Da Nang. And the slang that the kids use is very different based on sort of regional differences. And so once they started to implement it the kids were like I don't I would never use this word I can't understand what they're trying to get at here. Or they play different games and just have different sort of models. And so we revamped the curriculum to really resonate with the kids in this city that we were working at in the regional dialect that they were using. And I think that's one of the most important things that you can do when you're working with any population but especially kids. You really want to make sure that you're contextualizing not just for the country or not just for the region but that you know you're speaking kids language and you're empowering girls in in ways and talking to boys about masculinity and gender norms. We didn't really resonate with them. So you mentioned that the kids in this program were sixth and seventh graders. Do you think that there's something meaningful about that age in particular and reaching girls and boys of that age. And I'd be curious to hear sort of your thoughts about that. Yeah. I think anytime to talk about gender norms is a good time. But I think really hitting kids when they're in that that early adolescence stage is really critical because they are already thinking about gender norms. They're already sort of questioning like if you've ever hung out with a 11 12 year old like they're pushing back on everything like why are we going here. Why are we doing this. Why would you say that word. And so you're hitting them where they're already at and just saying like all right cool. So why do we do that. And is this something you want to perpetuate. And I just I think it's a really cool age to talk to kids about this stuff and to to respect them where they're at to. We talk a lot about empowering girls and as though we're sort of giving them power and giving something to them. But I think it really is just mobilizing the energy and the power that they already have and letting them run with it. And so I really like that just respecting kids in that way and not talking down to them but listening to them too. And I think that's one of the biggest changes we've seen in schools too is the change in attitudes from teachers and parents and adults. Following their kids talking to them about gender norms is just it's really powerful and it's cool to see. And maybe those boys and girls actually bring what they're talking about in school home and talk about that with their parents as well. Which they are looking at you know an even bigger conversation. That's great. Now let's go over to Karachi. Do you have a question that you'd like to ask our speakers. Yes one second. Hello my name is Duwama and I am a student of chemical secondary school and I am also a student of access program. My question was that we all will listen to that if you educate our girls you educate a generation. How can we promote and show this. Great question. Maybe we'll go back to you. How can we best educate girls and a generation. We have to start this thing from individual change or from our home or from our home. We have to start again. Schools are the best place that where this message or enrollment of girls in schools is very important. Though it has a role of state that they have to ensure this thing. But there are some unconventional ways as well that how we can educate a girl child by maybe we have housemaids or helpers at our home. And we start teaching or educating them at our home by giving them a free education. So teaching the girl or boy is very important and we can start this thing from our homes. And even on the road I think I really want that we should have an emergency education emergency in Pakistan and other areas which are deprived by this basic right of education. So every I think two or three kilometers we can have a camp by volunteers who can come and give some kind of time and they can invest in the next generation. This is like a self movement that need to be created. Thank you. I think that's a really good point that when we're talking about education we're not just talking about the time in schools but we're also talking about at home and communities. We're talking about the school that there are so many teachers that actually are educating girls and boys. So yeah thank you Seetra. Over to Rachel. Yeah I think you've raised a lot of really great points. I think education happens in formal or informal settings but it is also sort of educating and empowering girls with skills, networks, a safety net that can happen in school but might happen outside of school and in sports or other programs. ICRW actually conducted research looking at responses to address child marriage that I think resonate just overall in terms of empowering girls. And we found that access to quality education was one of the most important ways to empower girls as was empowering girls with skills and services. Supportive laws and policies are another great way to empower girls. Economic support to girls and their families is also really critical. A lot of times the barriers to school are things like school fees, school uniforms and the final solution is just educating and rallying parents and community members. Another barrier to school can just be if parents don't see the utility in educating a girl child or in spending their money to get a girl to school. I think the State Department's U.S. Global Strategy to empower adolescent girls touches on this a lot. It's a U.S. government strategy in U.S. foreign policy but it just resonates with me so much for any way to educate and empower girls. And I think the implementation plans that state and USAID have in there are just really powerful templates to look at. When we talk about educating and empowering girls, whether that's in a school setting or otherwise. Yeah, I think that point about transportation is really important to how do girls actually get to school because that can also be a huge barrier. Actually, Cedar, maybe we'll just go back to you for one second. I know you had mentioned earlier girls access to STEM education and we didn't really return to that point. But if you had anything further to say about the importance of getting girls sort of thinking about options in the STEM field. Can you please repeat? Oh, sure. I think you mentioned girls access to STEM education and looking at new sort of fields for girls. And I just wanted to know if you had anything more to say about the importance of girls accessing new fields. New fields, I was talking about the STEM that scientists and they should be engineers, mathematicians. And this is very important that these girls, these fields should be introduced for the girls as well. This is very important then the production part is very important that they can come behind the camera. They can produce the films and many topics are there. So technology and these things can be introduced to the girls. We need to think 10 years ahead for one of one girl. That what circumstances, what kind of a life she will be facing after 10 years. In 10 years I can say like it could be a minimum period to think and plan about the policy change for the women and girls in Pakistan. That could be an added value if we could be able to formalize something according to that. Thank you. And I think that really responds to Karachi's question about, you know, looking at changing a generation. So now it's time to share the results of our Facebook poll. We asked viewers again which setting they believed is the most critical to empowering girls and achieving gender equality. The number one response was home with 67% and the next highest response was schools with 33%. So very consistent with our conversation here actually. Rachel, what do you think about these results? I love this. I think so often the global conversation is really focused on education and schools. And I think there's definitely a there there. And what I heard Sidra say was that we need not only access to quality education but education that's tied to future work opportunities. So the girls are really gaining the skills they need to enter the workforce successfully. But the biggest change happens at home. I mean the older I get the more I find myself becoming my mother. But the values and the culture that you have at home just really ripples into other aspects of your life. If your parents read to you at home you're much more likely to be a reader. If your parents have a gender equitable home life you're much more likely to believe in gender equality. And so I think really rallying parents and communities around this change and empowering girls and understanding the potential of girls and the importance of gender inequality being really meaningfully addressed is just I don't know. I love that that that was the result. Sidra do you have any reactions before we go to our next question? Yes homes are very vulnerable place for people nowadays. And the most brutal and crude form of violence incest it happens in the house. It happens and it exists. It is there and it is very displeasure to share that girl or woman is not safe in their house and she face incest. And then we can see the number of domestic violence cases that when girl is being married even she's a child girl child bride or she's an adult woman. She still face domestic violence in the house. So we need to address our attitudes and behaviors towards the female gender the woman that how to treat her. So this is very important and I fully agree that the whole is organic and the people who call it it is right. Absolutely right. That's a great point that we need to be thinking about the multiple layers of gender based violence that may be occurring simultaneously. Thank you for that. So now let's take some questions coming in from our online viewers. A viewer asks what role can mothers play in enabling and empowering their daughters and future generations in overall empowering the girl child. And how have mothers in your country played an enabling and empowering role in the girl child's future well being and overall empowerment in her life. So maybe we'll go first to you Cedra and any reactions to that question. Yeah I think mothers could be like and play an integral role towards the training of their daughters and telling them and empowering them. Though father and other close relatives in a joint family system in Pakistan like they have equal role but how they can do it. I think every girl is a jewel. We should give her a confidence and we let her enjoy with the fullness and we need to fulfill all her needs from education right to live and everything. And related to this question that how girls can do this and mothers can be. I think mothers can share the stories which they have gone through in their life that needs to be shared with their daughters with their nieces with their other girls who are family members. That story could be about some harasser that story could be about some person who is bothering or staring or following something. But we need to unfold and we need to bring those people in the spotlight who were the harassers who were bothering them. It will help a girl to grow more because if 10 steps her mother has been taken. Now she will start from the 11th step and that would be a very great help from the mother and the elder girls within the community within the house that she could be able to address and understand her challenges of the life. Thank you. That's great. We'll go to Rachel next. Yeah I love that. If a mom takes 10 steps the girl starts at the 11th step. I think gosh this is a lot to put on moms and moms already have a lot of hard work ahead of them. But I think the most important things moms can do to empower girls are to model empowerment in their own lives. So if they're married to men marry men who are going to treat you equally and who are not going to physically or mentally hurt you. Modeling healthy relationships is really critical to girls understanding of what they should expect if and when they decide to get married. I think reading stories to girls is great. There are a plethora of stories of really empowered women and empowered girls. And I think hearing about that you know not just seeing male superheroes and whatever but seeing like your female sheroes out there too is really empowering because you know it can be done. And it has been done and you can be just like that or your own version of that. But I want to sort of push back on this question a little because I think there's a lot that dads can do too to empower their girls. And I would like to see more dads and a lot of dads do a great job of this. But I want to see even more of them like changing diapers you know doing 2 a.m. feedings. Making sure that they're the ones that are asking girls how their school day went and what they learned and what they're excited about. And just engaging at that level that has traditionally been relegated to moms. I think that's really important too. I always really like the saying if you can't see it you can't be it. And so you know that applies in some ways to the mom role model. But probably all of the other women in the community and teachers and you know other family members and friends as potential role models to see you know what are my options that I might be able to pursue in the future as a girl. I think your point about the important role that men plays is really critical. Maybe we'll just go back to Cedric quickly and ask you know do you have any thoughts about the role. We've talked a little bit about this earlier but about fathers specifically or you know things that we really should be thinking more about for men and boys to be doing to really help nurture and empower girls. Yes they have equal role and responsibility by raising. We need to raise good boys in this regard and they have equal responsibility. The child belongs to both and that's why we need to change the gender roles in our house even. We need to train them that both domain in the house whatever both children having boy and girl it belongs to them. And we need to dedicate the rose and household chores to our boys and girls. Then we can say that when they will be facing the out world they will be going in a public places. They would be respecting women. They would be making and creating space for women. So nowadays though we are pushing our boundaries and I always say that if you are sitting like this that you will not push your boundaries then one day you will be suffocated. So it is a role from for both children and parents and this is a parenting we need to work on the parenting skill as well. Well it is not only lies with the female or mother that she has raised good girls only. Thank you. We'll have another question from another viewer who asks how can the status quo be challenged and young girls and women take part in more leadership roles. Whether it be in the home their schools their communities their villages or in their countries. So if you have any thoughts about that maybe we'll start with you Rachel. Yeah I mean I think we've touched on so much of this before but I think it really does start at home. So ensuring that you know girls do chores and are helping out at home but that that isn't all that they're doing. That girls are allowed to have the same kinds of childhood play and engagement that boys are. I think a lot of the leadership skills that you learn as a child carry over into adulthood and might be learned on the playground or in your free time. And if your free time is taken up by fudging water firewood cleaning the house taking care of younger siblings or older adults. You learn really early that your role is as a caretaker for others and not as a powerful being in and of yourself. And so I think just you know making sure that those household chores and household identities are more equitable is really critical. Thank you Rachel. Leadership is very important thing. It should be addressed very seriously. And I think whenever keeping in view in the Pakistan context if I see that if some lead some celebrity some renowned person is giving some very weak statement about girls child or girl or woman are making some statements. I think we all need to register our protest against it. This will create a leadership in the girls and as well the boys will think they were able to develop a critical thinking that these behaviors are not welcome at all. So this could be another way and this generation can see this practice on a social media that whenever there is a lady who is trying to say something. If I could about last woman march in Pakistan women face a lot of problems and they faced lots of comments about that why she can sit like that. She cannot make a perfect round bread for a man and she is asking for rights and like this. I think these these all norms should be addressed and we need to register our protest online offline in our personal spaces wherever the places we need to address this issue by protesting and protest. I am not saying that raise your slogans and come out on the streets but you can write letters you can just email to the relevant departments and people or person who is making such statements who are against girls child or woman. Thank you online and offline I think that that makes a lot of sense. So unfortunately we are at our last question which is coming in from our Facebook viewers again and they are asking about human trafficking which is a big issue affecting women and girls across the region and worldwide. How can the larger international community and we all play a role in helping prevent human trafficking. Rachel go to you first. Yeah I think not to sound good but I think what we've been talking about changing our understanding of gender equality and gender roles and norms would be probably the hardest thing for us to do but the best thing that we can do to address human trafficking. And of course human trafficking happens to both boys and girls but is very interlinked with what we expect of boys and girls and men and women. So girls are much more likely to be trafficked into domestic servitude or into sexual slavery and boys are often trafficked into really hard labor settings that are tied in with ideas around masculinity and strength. And so I think if we can really do the hard but critical work of trying to address gender inequitable norms I think we can better understand the ways in which we can view each other as humans and less as things that we can buy. Honestly yeah. Thank you. See drove over to you. Women and children are used as a commodity. And that's why they've been trained of say different routes through through many routes in Pakistan FIA quoted that 20,000 domestic or internal trafficking trafficking has been taken place in Pakistan. This is a huge number 20,000 women and girls and men has been trafficked. So in Pakistan scenario it comes under the federal investigation authority and being a community member how I can detect this. I think that I can just roughly spot out few places like many young girls and students are sitting that bus stops are there. Then there is railway stations then there are airports and maybe some internal routes are there that we can spot off that how trafficking is going on. And if someone is telling them they are going to show them some other world new world and this current status is not good for them. So they should not fall into these kind of all kind of these excuses and these things and human trafficking is growing and being a community member. I think we need to open our eye and we need to see that this is a very important issue. Thank you. Unfortunately, we are out of time. Thank you very much to Cedar and Rachel for your time and participation. And thank you to our live viewing groups at the US Embassy Islamabad and the US Consulate in Karachi. Your participation made this a great program. We invite you to join us in celebrating International Day of the Girl tomorrow on October 11th. And we hope you all continue the discussion online using the hashtag dayofthegirl and in person in your respective countries and communities. Thank you again for joining us and goodbye.