 What is up? Welcome, everyone, to modern day debate. We are a neutral, nonpartisan platform welcoming everyone from all walks of life. If you're looking for even more fantastic debates, we are all over the internet, including your favorite podcasting platform. So if you enjoy debates, please don't forget to like, follow, on Twitch, and subscribe on YouTube, including tonight's debate on, is NASA trustworthy? With our debaters, Mark Reid and Nathan Thompson here to help us find out, and if you enjoy what either of them have to say tonight, our guest links are in the description below. And throughout the debate, you can also tag me in chat at Amy Newman with your questions or comment for our Q&A section. Those super chats will get you sent to the top of the list. With that, I'm gonna hand it over to Mark for their up to 10 minute opening statement. The floor is all yours. Oh, thank you, Amy. I thought it was 10 to 12 though, because I've got sort of a slideshow that's based upon those times. That sounds fantastic. 10 to 12 minutes as long as you can get your intro out. Oh, super chats will get you sent to the top of the list. I will just share my screen. Thank you. Just tell me when you've got it up and running. You are good. Oh, thank you. And thank you for having me here, Amy. I want to thank Modern Day Debate. Thank you for Nathan for showing up to debate me. And thank you for joining me. I appreciate your time. Today we're debating how can we trust NASA. And I want to go through the like really quickly the history of NASA and how we sort of got to have this space agency. Firstly, it's sort of one thing heard to be this morning that sort of what we trust like talking about trusting them with, you know, I'll be talking about trusting them with minding your children or or or providing for your family, which isn't really the question. The whole point is I think of this debate is can we trust them to present to us a a technologically and logically feasible worldview that that they are currently investigating. So can we trust them scientifically? Essentially is the question. So that NASA was originally NACA, and that's the North American, sorry, National American Committee for Aeronautics. So it didn't start as a space agency, of course, it actually started early in the 20th century as a aeronautics division before space travel was even a thing. For comparison, Lady Elizabeth Blount established the Universal Zetetic Society in an 1893, which Samuel Shelton set up as the International Flat Earth Research Society, or better known as a Flat Earth Society from Dover, England. And that was in 1893. So in essence, Flat Earth has been around longer than NASA, which which is important kind of thing. And it's interesting to note that the Americans sort of lagged behind the Europeans as far as automation and aeronautics was concerned. After after completing a doctorate in physics in 1911, Goddard joined the facility of NACA. During his physics lectures, he outlined ways of reaching the moon. Goddard was basing his projections on the real very real advanced in metallurgy, thermodynamics, navigational theory, control techniques, the technology that they had had begun to make rocketry possible. And Goddard fabricated the series of rocket tests. In 1920, you wrote a monograph, a method of attaining extreme altitudes, and it was published by the Smithsonian. He continued his experiments with propellant rockets, igniting them on the field, scared a ton of livestock on his neighbor's property. Eventually, that's 1926. He did one of the most the first successful flight of a liquid propellant rocket, a flight of 2.5 seconds, carried altitude of 41 feet, which is not a lot, not not huge, but it was a start for the American rocketry industry. During 1941, the hat Arnold, the chief of the US Army Air Forces, he was dumbfounded by a British turbojet plane, the Gloucester E2839. It's already entered its final test phase, and it was basically making its first flight following month. Fearing a German invasion, the British were willing to share the turbojet technology with America as informational advanced aerodynamics began to trickle out the state of Germany. The American engineers were impressed with the German engineering, sort of things like the ME136 powered interceptor and the Junkers 238 jet bomber. It basically had critics in America asking why American designs were lagging so far behind the rest of Europe. And America had been demonstrably lagging in jets and swimming aircraft. So really I'm mentioning this because at the end of the war, an opportunity came for the US to sweep up a large amount of German engineers and technicians in operation paperclip. Paradoxically, German success in World War Time V2 programs became a crucial legacy for post-war American space efforts. During this time about 1957, America was trying to launch its own rocket to take a satellite. Unfortunately, they were beaten by Russia with Sputnik 1. Now the launch that America was going to do, the satellite weighed about two pounds. Sputnik 1 weighed 183 pounds. Now, if you think about that in terms of warfare, if somebody can launch something weighing 181 pounds heavier than what you have, the destructive capability on that payload significantly outweighs the other. It was ominous. It was critical that America catch up in terms of rocketry. Absolutely critical. So the one that they tried to launch was the Vanguard. 1957, December 6th, Vanguard rose about three feet from the Lord platform, shuddered and then collapsed in flames. It was an absolute abject failure. Sorry, it was a three pound payload. When an American satellite went to orbit, it was a payload of two pounds against Sputnik 2, which was 1100 pounds of payload. This was a catastrophic outpowering of the US. Now, from this, America decided that needed to assimilate all of its aeronautics and rocketry into one department. And this came about in October 1, 1958, when NASA was born. This is the national mission statement. Basically, they have core values, integrity, teamwork, excellence and inclusion. And that inclusion being very, very significant. NASA employs about 8000 permanent workers across fields of space, engineering, management, support staff. They also employ contractors, which can be between 1,000 and 18,000, depending on the project. The budget of NASA is relatively smaller. It accounts for only roughly half a percent of the federal budget, or half a penny out of everybody's pocket. And famously, they did a sort of a push to increase spending, sort of a penny for NASA. So yeah, this is sort of some of the inventions that have come from NASA. These are health and medicine, things like lasik surgery, cochlear implants and visual braces. This is things like artificial limbs, scratch resistant lenses. So if you drive glasses with scratch resistant lenses, the space blanket, which is found in that silver blanket found in most first aid kits. The cutting of grooves in highways was first developed by NASA to help stop the or give more grip to the landing of aeronautic planes and shuttles. Yeah, I mean, we can go through it fire resistance, firefighting equipment, because they were working with oxygen and trying to keep temperatures stable of humans. They did things like video enhancement. Tempur foam was created by NASA. That's also memory foam, you might know it as the CMOS image sensor, which is interesting because all of your cell phone cameras, DSLR cameras, GoPro's, they use that sensor. So if you're using a cell phone, part of that was innovated by NASA, which is interesting. Air scrubbers, things like that for atmosphere regulation they invented. We've got things like water purification, they did things like converting pollution, cleansing water, converting GPS error signals. We use it for agriculture, because self driving agricultural products do use it. Computer technology. One of the ones I want to mention, they just open stack because that is actually used by a lot of companies for cloud technology. So if you are connected to the internet and going on cloud functions, open stack is probably involved somewhere. So a lot of this technology, they've just given away for free. They've just basically said, hey, this is for the good of humanity, you can use it. They don't actually, unless another company is involved, like they do partner with other companies, they generally will just make it available. And in 2014, they released over 1000 pieces of software people just to use things like food safety, monitoring, improved mind safety, because they're working with basically these bolts with censored load pressure and fasteners that could detect when the load was becoming too much. We still use them in mining today. This is the technology that Flat Earth has produced. And don't forget they started before NASA started. They have produced nothing that I can tell maybe Nathan can show us some products that they've come up with here. So these are real scientists, they're doing research on the effects of DNA proteins when subjected to vacuum, low temperature and focused light. This is what real scientists are doing. These are not real scientists who do no research, they have no idea how design, build or implement any aeronautical or space technology. And even if they spent the rest of their life studying could not even begin to implement the experiments we see in the last picture. No Flat Earth has ever implemented or is capable of implementing any kind of aeronautic program, except one. And this was Mad Mike Hughes. He was trying to reach an altitude of 5000 feet with, you know, riding a steam powered rocket he made at home. He was really regrettably and unfortunately killed when his parachute deployed early. And I want to say I do mind his bravery and commitment to finding the truth. Although I do have to confirm the silly conspiracy theories and done in Kruger effect that led him to think he could design a safe rocket. And, you know, it's a really tragic episode what happened with this guy. So I was summation why trust NASA. It's because they have 100 year history of aeronautics, which they've been upfront and honest with their failures, as well as their successes. They're accountable to the government and through freedom of information accountable to people because they still you can still request freedom information from from NASA. The main question I want you to consider is if you do not trust NASA for aeronautic and rocket technology science and innovation, then who should we trust? Who should be doing it? What's the alternative? Is the Flat Earth Society going to take it over ordinary people off the street? Religions priests are they going to take over aeronautics? Is my opponent going to take over aeronautics? Is he going to design the planes of the future? I'd like you to think about that just as Nathan does his side. But thank you very much for your time. And I'll turn it back to the moderator. Thank you, Amy. Thank you so very much, Mark, for your opening statement. And with that, Nathan, the floor is yours for your up to 10 to 12 minute opening statement. Just have to unmute yourself. They need to buy. Yep. Sorry. My first time doing one of these. But the floor is yours up to 10 to 12 minutes. Alright, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Nathan Thompson used to run the flat official Flat Earth and globe discussion. We had if you believe the numbers, Facebook tells us 155,000 members. And that was deleted shortly after my YouTube was deleted. Shortly after that, my Instagram the globe is flat was deleted. I've been banned from Skype Venmo. My Yahoo account was deleted. I was blocking Tinder. Why? Why am I getting censored off all these platforms when I talk about three things? How if we can consume food without harming animals, we should do that. You should research the Bible because there's a lot more truth in there than we've been led to believe. And you should test Earth yourself because what we're being told from the mainstream is objectively and verifiably not true. So that being said, I'm going to share my screen. I don't know if more new this the topic of the debate was can we trust NASA, not their history, not their mission statement, not what they've done in health and medicine or public safety, the fact that they've made air scrubbers and fire blankets means nothing in this debate. So let's get started. I'm going to share screen Amy, and we'll just go my entire desktop. And we'll start with NASA's bread and butter telling you you live on a globe. What about all these photos of Earth? Okay, do they have photos of a globe? I mean, that would surely be a reason to have a space station and and go into spaces so that we could see not only what we're on, but what's around us, maybe some incoming threats. But the problem is, these are Photoshop, admittedly Photoshop. NASA admits this. So don't get your feelings hurt. I'm not trying to hurt NASA's feelings here. They admit these are Photoshop. So there's copy and pasted clouds. Anyone can see that that should not be happening on a photo of Earth. Okay, Robert Simmons. Oh, I'm going to go back admits they are Photoshop because they have to be. He says, I start with a blank circle. They give me scans of the earth. And I turn the scans of earth into a ball. Excellent. Blue marble images of Earth. They're never the same color. Their countries are constantly changing sides. And if you have a globe with half of it being North America and a small portion of South America, that means on the other side of the globe, you would have to have all of the other oceans, Australia, Africa, all of Asia would be on the other side. All of Europe would be on the other side. I mean, the fact that people in 2022, almost 2023 believe this is is depressing, actually, to be honest, I can't believe people still buy into this nonsense. But what about all the photos of Earth from the moon? This is official NASA photograph. And it's officially fake. It's copy and pasted. You just have to turn the layers on. And you can clearly see that it is fake. Where are all the stars in NASA photos? Oh, my gosh, I have so much to go over here. There's no stars here. Well, that's interesting, because big complex lives are hard to keep straight when they are compartmentalized, like NASA's lies. Oh, that's one I want to play. If all the astronauts said you can't see and this I can't read it because the Yeah, you can. And there's more than stars. You can see planets. You can see moons. You see the gas Magellan clouds. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you see the Magellanic Wylst in space. This is from Mark Cameron. Wylst in space. Have you ever looked away from Earth into the black void? Yeah. So you can see the stars. Oh, yeah. And pretty much all the time. Look how Don Pettit is looking at the other astronaut because he doesn't know what to say. And then as soon as he says something, Mike, he goes, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, apparently these guys just a memo. Okay. Who remembers these guys? You guys remember these guys? We were never able to see stars from the lunar surface or on the daylight side of the moon. The sky is deep black when viewed from the moon as it is when viewed from Cislin or space, the space between the Earth and the moon. And we cannot see stars. It's not black. I mean, it's black, but there's all kinds of little poke. There's all that there's all the stars and the cool thing is about you can see it during the day. And when you're when you're in space and you're looking into deep space and you're on the sun side of the orbit, the sunlight washes out all the starlight so you can't see any stars just like pure on Earth. There's all that there's all the stars in the cool thing is about you can see it during the day. Someone didn't get the no stars memo guys. And there's more than stars. You can see planets, panic, right? You see the gas Magellan clouds. Who actually thinks these guys are smart? I mean, listen to them talk. Wow. Interesting. Alright, so here's another one. Could astronauts even survive in the infinite vacuum of space? Let's go ahead and play this one for you, ladies and gentlemen, you're going to like this. Go ahead, turn the volume up. It will demonstrate what would happen to these astronauts. Bob will start going. And we'll start boiling. How cool is that? But the ultimate and most dangerous test was a huge specially constructed vacuum chamber. They were able to pull all the air out, create a big vacuum. That way we could test our suits to make sure there was no leakage. One such test narrowly avoided disaster. Jim LeBlanc was the test subject in the vacuum chamber. Heck happened there. They didn't even show him passing out. Hold on one sec. Technical difficulties, ladies and gentlemen. It will demonstrate what would happen to these astronauts. I gotta be able to scroll forward on this somehow. Sorry, I did no preparation for this debate because I'm right. So doesn't matter how good you are in the debate, it's just got to be right. So what happens is they put them in a vacuum chamber and he says the saliva in my mouth started to bubble and then he passed out. So they stopped training astronauts in vacuum chambers and they put them in pools. So not representing a zero pressure environment in they put them into a pressurized environment. Brilliant. Now this video is too long. It's got about five minutes of NASA bloopers, wires, green screen, augmented reality failures, people ghosting out of screen. I'll play a brief portion of it, but I'm going to skip through a lot of it. So this guy's ghosting out of screen. I mean, this doesn't happen unless you're faking the video. There's no way for someone to just vanish into thin air. Come on, guys. And then also, you got this guy. You can see his wires. He's hanging from a harness here. Look at this CGI glitch. What? What is that? Now we got bubbles in space, ladies and gentlemen. Bubbles. Bubbles that change directions, accelerate, decelerate, curve. This should not happen going 17,000 miles an hour. Okay, so lots of problems here. Okay, I know that Mark is clinging to the fact that they made air scrubbers and fire blankies. But they're faking space with the $60 million they get a day. Mark's like, Well, why doesn't flat earth come up with air scrubbers and fire blankets? Nobody gives me $60 million a day to make things. Okay, so if they did, I'll start making stuff. Let me know guys. I'll give you my routing number bank account 60 million a day. I will have the best airscrapper you've ever seen and fire blankie coming soon to a Walmart near you. Alright, and that's another thing too is they take our tax money, and then they patent all this stuff. And then they make tons of money in the private sector off of stuff that was funded by taxpayer money. So who remembers this guy? Don Pettit couldn't remember that we should not see stars in space between the lives. Take a listen, I'd go to the moon in a nanosecond. The problem is we don't have the technology to do that anymore. We used to but we destroyed that technology and it's a paper. They destroyed the technology was it just like a Friday and they just got done watching office space and they wanted to take all the technology for the moon landing out to a field and just beat it up with a bat while listening to some gangster music. What we give these people $60 million a day and they destroy technology and you think they should be trusted. Are you kidding me? You got to be kidding me guys. Oh, but don't worry. It's not all lies. There's documents that I'll tell you you live on a flat non rotating earth, not just in NASA multiple times. But you've got Oh, there's NASA again. You got the military. You've got Oh, there's NASA again telling you there's flat non rotating. You've got MIT. You've got all these documents to army beacon position and attitude navigation aiding by aided by a magnetometer. Here's another one army research laboratory propagation of electromagnetic fields over flat earth. The whole premise for the space agency is to lie to you. The word NASA in Hebrew means to deceive. It's the word when Satan beguiled Eve, he NASA her, he tricked her, he deceived her. So the company name in Hebrew means to trick or deceive. And here we are having a debate. Should they be trusted? Wow. Alright, 60 seconds. It gets better. Could it be why all these organizations use flat earth maps and their logos? International Aviation Organization United Nations International Maritime organizations. Also, from 1982 to 2014, these are balloon launches from the strange Space Center. Eight of these are at the Merck. I mean, what about all the rockets that are launched? Well, there's a rocket graveyard pitch explain that we found hundreds and hundreds of US Air Force rockets that they were testing off the coast of Florida. So let's give them more money. They're going to send hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of those rockets into space. But they all end up in the bottom of the ocean. Because they found them there. Not only that, not only NASA doing the fakery guy SpaceX, look at this, 408 kilometers away, you have a very gradual curve, half the distance 177 kilometers away. You've got a very dramatic curvature of Earth. So why? Why would the government slide to us? Ladies and gentlemen, this has been going on before I was born. Unfortunately, I'm not Miss Cleo. I don't have crystal ball. I can't divine their thoughts. But one good reason to lie to you is money. They get $53 million a day in 2019. They have stolen over half a trillion dollars from you. And this guy's over here saying we should trust them because they gave us fire blankets and air scrubbers and hang. Have you ever got scratch resistant glasses? Oh, well, let's give them another half trillion dollars to fake space because they made scratch resistant glasses. Who founded NASA? Well, all these people were Crowley's disciple Jack Parsons. That's over Warner von Braun, Walt Disney 33rd degree Mason. Look at these a buzz aldrin Mason, James, I am gonna need you to at least wrap up your final point. I got two more slides, Amy. And I didn't even touch this entire presentation. So, um, NASA and Freemasonry are very closely net. All the founders of NASA worshiped this guy Crowley who said, Yes, Lucifer is God. He called himself the beast. He was said to be the most evil person on earth. So the Freemason and NASA fraud is the cornerstone of one of the I think that's time. It's kind of unfair if he goes way over the time that I got a lot of layover. I had two more slides. I have 30 more seconds, dude. You're supposed to wrap up night. I'm not on that. Just I am sending love to both of our analogators and we are going to head into the open dialogue portion of the debate. I want to please if you're enjoying what either of our analogators have to say their links are in the description below and if you're enjoying the debate, please don't forget to like, follow and subscribe. But I am going to hand it right back over to you two gentlemen for your up to 50 minutes of open dialogue. The floor is both of yours. Thank you very much, Amy. Yeah, so sort of Nathan went on about a whole load of things that was sort of just his misinterpretation of the data, just these paranoid conspiracy theories that, you know, go on to the Bible and stuff. He's talking about NASA, meaning this Hebrew word. And it also sounds like nasher. So maybe NASA has teeth somewhere because of gnashing of teeth. It is the most ridiculous kind of connection to unassociated things I've ever said. Are you just gonna monologue during the back and forth portion? Bring up a couple of points, Nathan, and then you can address let's go over one by one through that because you went over a lot of time. So if you put up a couple of okay, the first point is, why does the etymology of a word have any significance on what they actually do? Because I could associate all kinds of words with all kinds of things and say, Hey, this word sounds like this. It's not the same, but it sounds like it. That means absolutely nothing. Paranoia. Are you done? Yeah. Excellent. I'm on now. So I'd appreciate if you give me the same consideration I just gave you and not interrupt me. Okay, I did interrupt me. Because you were rambling on and on and monologing and I said, let's go over. I've gone like less than a minute. So I've gone less than a minute. You've got a weird sense of, you know, time when you go way over time and then accuse me of rambling on and on and on. I'm going to interrupt both of you and what we're going to do is up to two to three minutes. You don't have to take two to three minutes, but up to two, three to minutes, whenever it is your turn, someone starts speaking and it will be your turn and the clock will go. Joe, thank you. Great. So my entire premise from our argument was not NASA means to deceive so they are lying to us. I find it interesting that the word NASA in Hebrew means to deceive. That's why I brought it up. But you failed to realize that it was not all just conspiracy delusion on my part. I showed videos from NASA of them trying to put a space suit in a vacuum. The dude almost died. His sweat and saliva started to bubble and he passed out. Now they no longer train in vacuums, which is the atmosphere that they allegedly work in. They train in pools, which simulate zero gravity and look perfect when faking space for a camera. Okay. So that's not paranoid delusions. That's their words saying we no longer test in a vacuum. We test in pools and it's an exact replica of the ISS. So if they were training and doing the actual videos of the ISS in the pool, you wouldn't know the difference. That's why there are bubbles in space is because when they're faking space walks, they are actually underwater in a pool because space is fake. It violates the second law of thermodynamics. You cannot damage. Are you going to keep going on and on? She gave me two minutes. That is and I will say I will when we stick to one point since Nathan wants to give me two. Now I thought you said you were fine with two minutes. Now you want to go back to what I said, which is point for point. At the two minute mark, I will say please wrap it up for your final points. That'll go into then continuing then continue instead of sort of having tantrum. I appreciate you allowing me to welcome. I am sending love to both in a lock. It is Nathan. I'll give you an extra 30 seconds. It's floors back to you. I don't need an extra 30 seconds. I'm in my point. This guy's just interrupting me just because he's tired of getting it. So you're complaining over nothing. Okay, gotcha. Floor is over to you, Mark. You got. This is my time. This is my time. This is my time. Thanks, Nathan. Cheers. So basically, Nathan didn't even address my why that means to deceive actually has any impact on it. So we just completely ignored that and went on to something else. I don't know why, but hey, we just basically won't address the point. Sure. Videos to the vacuum chamber. Yeah, they started testing suits in a vacuum chamber and even his video said they're testing suits to make sure there are no imperfections or holes in the suits or things that could compromise it. When they had a case of this suit having a flaw and in the vacuum, bad things were happening as it showed because what Nathan showed with this weird thing of water and it bubbling in a vacuum, the whole idea is the people in space aren't in a vacuum. They're in a suit which it has an atmosphere in the suit. So what's really ridiculous is Nathan doesn't even understand how a vacuum and a space suit actually works. And if there is a flaw in the suit, yes, the water will boil because then the person like the cup of water is subjected to the vacuum, which we're trying to prevent that happening. Now, once they realized, hey, there's a better way to test the floors. How do we do it? We put them in water and see if any water is coming in because what they're trying to do is make the suit airtight, completely airtight. So if they find a better way of doing things, of course they're going to change over and water is not perfect for demonstrating, you know, faking space. It isn't perfect. There's a number of things that water does that space doesn't do that zero gravity doesn't do rather because they're not in space. They're inside of an atmosphere that that is inside space, which it's amazing that Nathan fails to realize that. And it goes on for the second law of thought thermodynamics, which is basically so silly because these people, they're not directly exposed to space. And that's the entire point that he seems to have missed. He's talking about an exact replica. No, it's just ISS. You can see it with a telescope like seriously. The fact that Nathan won't use a telescope is kind of indicative of his paranoid conspiracy theory, but you know, that's entirely 60 seconds. And also the whole idea of there's bubbles in space, what they are, it's actually ice coming off because you know, it's insanely cold. So Nathan looks at this and he thinks, oh, it must be air bubbles because of his innate paranoia and conspiracy theory to think that all of this has been faked. That's what he's looking for. This has been shown time and time and time again. But Nathan just doesn't want to hear the truth. What he wants to do is sort of make up these ridiculous statements like, hey, the water boils because it's exposed to a vacuum. Then wonders why humans don't boil in space when they have a space suit that prevents them to be exposed to a vacuum. And the person in the vacuum chamber, when there was a floor, they did have the same results. So in fact, Nathan's entire video debunks itself. Great. You said the suit is on in the vacuum. So they don't have to worry about their blood boiling or their saliva boiling. They tested the space suit in a vacuum. Okay. So they had the dude with the space suit on his body in a vacuum and it didn't work. And your argument is, oh, well, that's why they built an entire perfect replica of the ISS underwater is so that they could test the space suit. Then you went on to say how water is totally different than space. Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't be testing anything in water. If you're going to space, Mark, wow. Okay. So not directly exposed to space. The suit, they put him in a vacuum. Okay, you can't make that argument, Mark has no foundation to stand on the say, oh, that they're, they're wearing the suits in space. So so they're protected from the vacuum. They tried to test the space suit in a vacuum and it didn't work. They don't do it anymore. That's how bad it is. That's why Mark Sergeant put out a challenge, put me in a space suit, put an astronaut in a space suit, send us into the Sandusky Research Center, close the doors and turn on the vacuum. They won't do it because people will die and will make national news that they've been faking space and they've stolen a half a trillion dollars. And Mark's happy with it because he got a fire blankie and an air scrubber. Wow. Okay. Wow. And the ice cannot be ice falling off the ISS because those space bubbles accelerate, decelerate, change direction and curve. Now you can't do that. It appears like they're in like a fluid like medium. That doesn't happen in a vacuum of space going 17,000 miles an hour. You don't get ice flicking off and it changing direction, accelerating, decelerating, curving. That doesn't happen, Mark. Sorry. It's actually happening because they're faking it in a pool. I'm sorry. You haven't figured that out yet. Also, this two minute thing is BS. It's not a back and forth at all. It's just he monologues for two minutes and then I address the silliness that he's basically just. If you would like, I can shorten it to two minutes. We can see if we can get it back and forth. I just want everyone to be able to actually get their points over without. So we'll shorten it to at a minute and a half. I'll give you 30 second. I think the problem is, Amy, that sort of I brought up a couple of points and sort of Nathan jumped in and interrupted me and I'm happy for him to bring up a few points, but he doesn't seem to want me to do the same while he wants to go on about random stuff. So if Nathan can let me say what I need to say and then, you know, we can go back to him, that's fine with me. I will, if you'd like to continue going back and forth, if it gets heated again, I'll try. I like the spice. I want the spice. I just want both sides to get the points out. So we'll give it back over to back and forth, Mark. It sounded like you were about to speak, so I'll give it back to you, but it is once again both of you gentlemen. Yeah, so it's interesting to note, sort of, so he says, oh it's dangerous people will die if they try this. They do other tests in vacuum on various different things. It's just putting a human in a vacuum chamber where they're not sure if it will work. It is too dangerous. They've decided it's too dangerous. So it's not like they know people will die. That's not true. And Nathan doesn't seem to understand this. He's just paranoid and has his conspiracy going on. So what they're basically saying to Mark Sargent, hey it's too dangerous because if there is a flaw in the suit, it could do a lot of damage to people, even if they have emergency shutoff and things like that. So that's basically why they're doing it. They do other tests for things in vacuums, just not on human beings. And there's no expert saying all of this, oh it's changing direction. And this is just a product of sort of Nathan's fever dream that he wants to think that, hey this can't happen in space. It has to be in water. What experience do you have with space that you know that these movements don't happen, Nathan? Yeah, that's fascinating. You're on mute, mate. Space is fake. Mark, have you have any experience with space? Have you been to space? No. No, no you don't. So but I know it's a vacuum and vacuums are extremely dangerous and you just admit it. They don't put humans in vacuums with spacesuits because it's too dangerous. Well, they let people climb to K2 and Mount Everest, which one out of four people who try die and you're over here like, oh they got a perfect space record. They sent 550 people into the vacuum of space which they don't even train for and it's been fine. Nobody's died except the Challenger Incident which was in Earth's Atmos. So that wasn't even in space. So you're telling me that it's more dangerous to climb to the top of K2 than it is to go to the vacuum of outer space, Mark? Yeah, so vacuums are dangerous like they certainly are and they do train people for vacuums. A lot of the training that we see in these videos is training for vacuums because they are in pools and things and yeah they let people climb to K2 but what we're talking about here is completely different. You're doing a false analogy because people that climb to K2 do absorb their own volition and take on board that risk. What we're talking about here is an employer. So an employer forcing you to climb to K2, I would certainly have a problem with and I would hope you would as well. That isn't the actions of a responsible employer but NASA is a responsible employer so they don't subject their employees to that level of risk. They try to test as much as possible beforehand but they're not going to test equipment on human beings in a dangerous situation. They find other ways to do it and this is what you don't understand because you don't have any idea what you're talking about. You've basically got this conspiracy fever dream that you're on that it all has to be bad and therefore all of these things they have to do are being suspect. What they're doing is trying to prevent damage to their employees and make it as safe as possible. In fact in my opening I outlined one of their principle core tenants was safety so why wouldn't they find a better way to do it? You're telling me it's too dangerous to train in a vacuum the medium that they explore. No it's too dangerous to test a spacesuit that may or may not be in like a safe spacesuit on human beings in a vacuum which is what you sort of accused them of doing and then stopped doing it when somebody felt they're saliva bubbling which is an early sign that they're actually being affected by vacuum pressure. So it's like you're basically saying hey they did this thing that was really dangerous and then they stopped doing it. Well yeah what do you expect an employer to do Nathan? Okay so it's really dangerous. Vacuums are really dangerous. They don't train in vacuums. You agree with all that. Excellent. Do you want to present any points? They don't train in vacuums because it's a lot cheaper to train in other mediums. There's a lot easier and cheaper ways to do it. I mean vacuum chambers are incredibly expensive to run and if you want a vacuum chamber say the size of an ISS that's an incredible amount of vacuum to create. It's completely unfeasible. So you're basically conflating and going from hey they tested this suit to why don't they train in this medium? Yeah they tested a suit in a vacuum chamber which is actually pretty small. If you're talking about training like 100 people in this medium that's one heck of a vacuum chamber. I don't think a vacuum chamber exists like that on earth. Okay Mike and Don Pettit said they could see stars, planets, moons and Magellanic clouds from space but Neil Armstrong said space was completely black and then I had about four or five other astronauts say the exact same thing. So who's right from NASA? Was Don Pettit right? You can see stars in space or was Neil Armstrong right? You can't see stars from space it's black. Okay so this is a case of you sort of chopping up the video to sort of make it seem like you want to and you can see all the jump cuts and the cuts that are made. This is called quote mining is the sort of thing that Nathan's doing here. Basically and you know it might not be your fault Nathan you might have just got this from you know your Bizarro website that you go to you know think that the earth is a conspiracy or whatever. So basically what they're saying in some of them is that when we take photos we cannot see the stars and they're talking about seeing it in the photo and the reason for that is because the exposure has to be turned way down because space in daytime is so bright. So you've taken things alongside with people saying hey in a space suit when you're actually out there you can see the stars you can even see planets you can even see nebula or you know these clouds kind of thing. With people that are saying hey when you take a photo you can't see stars and you've basically chopped it up so it seems like they're saying different things. I mean well done for your you know sort of video editing or whoever did the video video editing but that is essentially what they're saying. So you're conflating two different things but you know it appears conflation is your bread and butter. So you're saying that you can see the stars and planets and Magellanic clouds but when you take a picture you can't see the stars. Right. And oh in the photo. Oh okay and you think that makes sense. Well in photography it does make sense because if you turn the exposure way down and there's a bright source of light like the sun you're not going to see the lower light sources and that's very well known in photography. Mark did you know in none of those videos were they ever talking about photographs they were saying that you can't see the stars. Did you know when you're talking about the photos you can't see the stars. None of those videos. So you think that in photos that they don't have they have stars on these photos that they take from space are you saying that. I'm saying that none of those videos were talking about photos Mark not only do we not see photos of stars in space. Yeah so we can't really tell because you've kind of you know chopped them up a lot that's the thing. You can go back and re-watch the whole freaking interview they're saying that you can't see the stars when you're in space Mark. I can replay the video and share my screen if we need to. Do you want to watch it again. Yeah so you've sort of chopped that up and just basically video edited for them to say hey you can't see the stars. That's what they said. Yeah so they're talking about when you take a photo. That's not what they're talking about. Well I mean you can prove it. Let's see where they say it's your video I use where they're talking about photographs and say in photographs you can't see the stars. Show me one. The thing is about video editing is that you can take something out of context by basically start to move. I took it out of context Mark. We can see these chops that you've made in the video where they're very very short amounts of talking so you can interpret it however you want. As I said the principle is quote mining where you basically take small quotes out of what people have said. I encourage you to go and watch the entire thing people at home because this is this is sort of the bread and butter of Flat Earth. They basically quote mine by chopping up video very small. They did it to Buzz Aldrin as well and sort of said oh he said this he said that when that you take it out of context with chopping it up like like Nathan has done here that does seem to say that but you've got to look at the entire context. Okay can you show me one entire context that shows that we're talking about photographs. You want me to show you a half hour video or something. No not at all can you just show me one second clip where I took a clip out and missed you. Yeah so I'm not doing your homework for you Nathan. You can go and find the entire video. You don't have any clue. So go for it. Neither do you. Yeah so this this is sort of where Nathan does projection where he claims all kinds of nutty conspiracy theories and all of this stuff. That's what you just did. And then doesn't excuse me I'm talking and then doesn't and then doesn't yeah I'm talking thank you Nathan. He doesn't actually back it up with anything. That's what you just did. You just said you wouldn't back it up. That's what you just did Mark. He's talked about Photoshop. He's talked about all of these things made all kinds of assertions with nothing to back it up whatsoever and then he wants to say hey because I demand that the entire clip has to be taken in context he's like well you've got to produce my evidence for me and that is not the case at all. He has the burden of proof to show that this is actually the case and he has not done that. All he's done is show pieces of clips and conspiracy people do this all the time. They show pieces of clips they want to say hey look this person said this and this person said that yeah when you have like five seconds of a clip you may be able to take it out of context. Again they did the same thing with Buzz Aldrin. They said Buzz Aldrin said we never met went to the moon. When you watch the entire clip in fact what he's saying is we never went back to the moon and they chopped it up to make it look like that's what he said and it's it's well I mean it's their bread and butter as I've said. What about the CGI glitches I showed earlier Mark what's your explanation for those? Yeah so anybody that's even watched a YouTube video or transmitted at what YouTube video will know that artifacting can occur and glitches can occur especially when you're transmitting it from sort of orbit through to a ground station and there are clouds and like sort of weather patterns in the way glitches can occur and these are just glitches besides sort of Nathan's fever dream here we've got no evidence that these are actually you know some sort of conspiracy to show to you know change the video. Experts have looked at this who are very familiar with video evidence they work on it professionally and yeah and they're not employed by NASA they're just video and said hey this is a glitch from video transmission and that is all it happens you watch a YouTube video glitches occur I think you would have to be sort of very deceptive if you want to say oh well I've never seen a video glitch in this way before it's just it's just impossible. Transmission of video it does happen it's not it's not anything that like where is your proof Nathan that this has been doctored where's your proof this is an assertion that you've made where's your proof? Yeah there I got a video I'll go ahead and share a screen thanks for asking. Wait where's your proof? You wanted proof I was about to give it now shut up. Well I'm just asking where is it? I'm pulling it up right now it's now your turn to shut up. Okay excellent so let's watch some NASA bloopers since Mark asked for it okay. You see that Mark? It's changing directions accelerating and decelerating that that's not true. Sorry go ahead. That can't be ice flying off the ISS I know you get super triggered when I talk over you but you have no problem doing it with me all the time so that can't be ice Mark it's look at it okay that's not going 17,000 miles an hour Mark that's what they told you how about this a guy ghosting out of screen I have a friend who does green screens here in LA he'll go to parties and all sorts of props in front of a green screen he'll take pictures for people now Mark how does someone ghost out of screen like that if they're not on a green screen please explain. Okay so this is not proof this is just basically pointing to video glitches and things like that and saying hey I have a friend but this is the best thing I love this I have a friend so my mate says which is the level of the level excuse me excuse me this is excuse me oh okay the level of this is the level this is the level of evidence that like Flat Earth is going to provide my mate says and I reckon he's an expert yeah you have absolutely nothing to back this up absolutely nothing this is useless he's basically looking at a video saying I reckon this is fate that's my opinion well no one cares Nathan you need to show that that is actually not just a glitch of the video. Okay how are you showing that? How does that happen Mark? Yeah it's called artifacting artifacting yes as the video is transmitted it can artifact and and experts do say that and you're basically saying well actually my mate says um yeah what if the whole image has to artifact how come only the person artifacts Mark? It can happen yes because when you've got a still image a still image and then you've got exactly the same background and a person's in the foreground upon movement it can artifact and show another frame that sort of overlapped with it it can happen it's the way that data transmission works because what you're doing is you're streaming data down and if that data repeats and is interspersed it can do something like this now exactly how it happens if you want to give me the if you want to meet I give you the exact like coding of this particular video being downloaded from its source then no I don't have that but these things do happen and your your answer to these things happen where's your actual proof this is a a cover-up and not an artifacting error is my mate says no can you show me one example here's the million dollar question mark can you show me one example where someone goes out of screen aka artifacts according to you and the rest of the image is perfectly fine the million dollar question just show me this happening on a real video preferably one that you took but maybe you could show me this happening somewhere does this happen on videos that you make people just turn into ghosts as they leave the room yeah so this is more conflation because I'm not sort of transmitting through a uh well I mean it's essentially the same as a satellite connection down to earth which satellite connections notoriously famous for being affected by clouds and weather and things like that that is something that can happen but i'm not doing that so it's a complete conflation just ask for one example really I don't have to do one example I don't have to do anything you don't have any evidence to do is to show that this is actually right this is actually a um a doctored video which he has not done all he can do is an appeal to some random mate that's reckons it is a fabricated thing um could we stop sharing the screen I have no idea why actually I got more proofs and asses faking stuff I was just wondering if you could give one evidence of someone ghosting out of screen or artifact yeah this isn't your presentation nice Mark I was talking again I know you love and we're back to talking getting annihilated but the problem is you don't have any evidence for what you're saying Mark so when I asked for evidence and you go I don't have to back up what I'm saying just run my mouth and make bold empty claim that's why no it's actually you making ridiculous you're making the claim that it is doctored I I'm not making that claim you are look at it the person turns into a ghost Mark and you can't show me one example of that happening elsewhere I mean I didn't I didn't know that in the debate so I didn't know that in the debate I'd be required to provide video on this because basically some nutcase is asking for me to produce a video can you produce a video that shows that a NASA launch is artifacts like it's faked can you provide that please I never made that claim so well done on the straw man well then you don't have evidence that it's faked you don't have evidence that it's faked then congratulations we're working on your logic so you don't have evidence that it's faked must be true you lose that's the level of reasoning you are doing right now that's it's your reasoning it's your reasoning because you can't produce something I have demanded on spot for some reason then you lose that is the reasoning that you are going through right now hey Mark can you maybe explain this one for me when she smiles there the reflection does not move so she's got the reflection in the bubble oh she opened her mouth and closed her mouth and the reflect I didn't even say that it's on screen maybe you should open your eyes you can't see anything from that yeah this is this is sort of conspiracy thinking and and sort of you know just sort of this but the reflection does move see it's at the top right hand side there and the way that light refracted is that's exactly what you would expect like it is moving what are you talking about it was at the top right and then move to the center what are you talking about oh no skip past go back to the start reflection is not no go back go back to the start of it you can't tell from that reflection it's completely distorted you cannot tell whether she's smiling or not you're joking right you must I can see I can see I don't know a level of fever dream that Nathan is at well you've got a reflection in a bubble that you cannot make out any details in it's at the top right right and then like it moves down to the center which is exactly what you would expect with something like this you cannot tell if she's smiling or not because the image is so distorted and then he's like oh well that's evidence of a what what am I what seriously seriously I mean you're the one who believes in a medium you've never been to will never travel to and you say I have your dreams mark you have your dreams and you want to give these people 60 million dollars a day and you want to force children to learn about hocus pocus booga booga nonsense because some guy in a pool told you he went into the vacuum of space at 18 000 miles an hour five miles a second and you're gullible enough to believe him congratulations mark no no no that's that's not the reason it's because because of all of the progress we have made in aeronautics rocketry all the stuff they produce all of the all of the excuse me nathan could you please calm yourself and actually let me speak um we we've seen um all of the things that they have produced we've seen multiple video images these video images um even before that we've seen photographic evidence before cgi even came out there's the blue marble shot which is the complete photo that flattered has always asked for we've got multiple instances of them doing this we have things that they have produced what has flat earth produced as far as technological advances to show that they are right in their scientific endeavors mark what have they produced we're not here to talk about what flatter does or doesn't do the topic of the debate is what i'd like to know shut up mark i'm in the middle of talking can we toss nasa or not now you're over here saying we have a photo it's called the blue marble robert simons was the person who created the blue marble image and he has done interviews i don't even laugh it wasn't a joke he actually is the one who created that's why it says here conversations with goddard that it has the employee from nasa robert simon and he says he starts with a blank circle and he puts together scans of the earth i don't know if you missed this in my opening yeah this is hilarious so robert how funny we give these people 60 million dollars a day and you're yeah no it's hilarious why you're gonna depend on yeah i'll explain yeah yeah i'll explain why it's hilarious because look at the age of this guy okay this is this is the hilarious thing about it because robert simons created this image in 2002 for the iphone so he took the blue marble picture and he basically made it look prettier for to put on the apple iphone because the blue marble is a bit drab so he actually did it up in 2002 but nathan's claiming this is this is hilarious nathan is claiming that he doctored the photo back in 1970 something because at the time he wasn't born hey try and contain yourself mark he said he started with a blank circle not an image of the earth not the blue marble image of the earth laugh it up buddy you're getting annihilated i am i really started with a blank circle then they took scans of the earth he added a specular highlight because balls that reflect lights have a specular highlight makes it look more like a ball okay he even says all this he had to make the blank circle that he started with looked like a ball and you're over here telling us it's a in 2002 it's in 2002 in 2002 i don't know when he did it i've listened to the interview i wasn't when did he do it then i mean you're claiming stuff when did you do it let's read it yeah okay what did you do is most interesting about your rubble at garter my role is to make imagery from earth sciences data i turned data into pictures i look for new interesting events that nasa satellites have seen or that are hidden in the latest data to find interesting that shows off nasa's unique capabilities okay so this is this is him saying he takes data and turns it into pictures and when did he do that um this interview was uh it was this article is from 2012 yep but when did he do it i'll give you the answer it's 2002 so you're basically saying that um a guy that did it in 2002 and the blue marble was taken on the 7th of December 1972 that somehow somehow like get this this is hilarious somehow these two images are the same even though they are 30 years apart no i'm sure look at the picture of this guy look how young he is like this is this is the favorite dream that nathan it's in he thinks that somebody in their 20s took a picture and manipulated it 30 years earlier so wait you said we have a real photo it's the blue marble and it was taken 30 years before that guy said what he said so so you guys don't have any other real photos just a photo from like 1980 1980 what are you talking about i don't know what you're talking about 30 years prior to 2012 would be approximately um can i share my screen yeah i can do math yeah i'll just share my screen just one second planet africa are you saying this is real this is this is the blue marble taken by um apollo 17 crew in as you can see 1972 um this is the actual blue marble and not the blue marble a screen saver that was basically made a lot prettier a lot brighter um so it looked pretty on on a phone screen and this is the original picture that was taken in 1972 so let let let me just explain this to you nathan is claiming that a guy not born when this picture was taken um doctored this photo and it looks completely different than the photo that he showed um but instead somehow this was stopped by robert simons um this is before he was born in order to fool people back in 1972 now you're just being disingenuous because anyone watching the debate is going to see them i never actually claimed that hey let's get that photo back up on the screen mark if we could please i'd like to talk about it uh good fun hi this is hilarious i want to thank you nathan this is i am i am i really am this is actually get that picture back up please yeah yeah sure give me a sec um this is actually pretty funny i mean um how many continents does earth have mark seven okay how many are visible in this picture one i mean if you include Antarctica oh okay all right that's good mark sorry i get to laugh too all right let me laugh too you're saying that this is a picture of the earth and there's only one continent on one side you're saying that six other continents are on the other side of this ball well not on the other side they're on to the sides you can sort of see um very very i just ask how many you can see badly one well i mean you can't really see australia you can't really see them so there are you can't really see them and that means they are really on the other side yeah it's a ball so so when you say other side it's kind of this really fuzzy language because you're talking like oh this is 50 of the earth it's actually taken from a position under the earth and not a lot of continents are in the southern hemisphere of the earth as you can see from the middle east you it's basically looking from um i mean there's no below in space but it's looking from the underside if Antarctica is the the bottom so up so you cannot see any of the northern hemisphere or very very little of it so you can sort of see the edge of China and India which is the continent of Asia but it's not really clear so um the the ones you can see clearly are Africa and Antarctica but because there are so few continents in um the the south of the equator as opposed to north america um europe asia um you cannot see a lot yeah yeah i'll agree you can't see a lot you said you could only see one so Antarctica well i mean i i forgot about Antarctica in like one second i think it's uh uh you know that is a continent although it's one that nobody uh very few people permanently live on so it kind of skips your mind but it is a continent yeah speaking of an article being content well you got the internet there open can you open a new tab and google pictures of the south pole from space mark that'd be great not really i mean i'll do it for you and then i'll share my story for sure excellent so yeah no i i'm not your servant nathan i'm not you know i just wanted to do what you asked because this is going to really hurt your argument i understand why you wouldn't want to do it and while nathan is looking that up we have about 15 more minutes of open discussion before we go into the q and a sending love out there yeah while nathan is doing that i'll just sort of explain that that sort of one he said i'll research the bible it's really just his religious view that the earth is a flat disc it's really just comes down to that so while sort of nasser is using scientific experimentation and the the scientific methods to show um the the um at least it's just a religious argument essentially yes your entire argument is religious you've never been to space you simply believe men who've been there and their founders of that company were all satanists and freemasons excellent so you've got no evidence of that you've got absolutely no evidence well i'd like to address that point thank you um there's no evidence of that this is just another fever dream plane from nathan just oh they're all satanists he's got no evidence of that he's just putting out you know disparaging remarks against very hard workers who do things that he can't do excellent so now that i've pulled up mark can you see my screen i pulled up pictures of the south pole from space all right excellent now mark i would like you to tell me which one of these are real wait tell me when to stop okay tell me when you see one that looks real i i don't know but i don't i've never investigated rolling don't worry mark maybe you'll find one i don't know what this is i'm not done mark let me finish okay you haven't seen them all you haven't seen orbital orbital trajectories usually don't well there's one of the south pole uh head topics um the the uh and the photo next to it from business insider oh picture of a storm you're going to say that's an article yeah lights up south pole yeah because that's that's sort of what happens in the south the aurora lights up the south pole you're saying that this is an article it's a picture of an article that's a storm mark you're looking okay bro you look silly right now well i mean what do you what do you want for the weather to be clear what i want was maybe you could maybe you could ask like you know the god that you think is so real to clear up the photo for you if you know because obviously he's in control of the weather but what's funny is that this is a religious argument from Nathan it's not from me but is from him but apparently his god can't provide him with enough evidence to convince anybody it's it's absolutely hilarious that an all-powerful god can't seem to you know give give Nathan the knowledge to show that nasa is wrong or or you know invent something he can't invent anything he's absolutely i mean the only thing flat earth producers is hot air and that's all even though they've been around longer than nasa they've had every opportunity to do some research some some kind of scientific revolution and they get nothing instead they're doing this sort of going oh which which on this youtube search is real and which isn't i i don't really care this is a google search mark and you asked what i wanted what i wanted google search yeah was you to tell me which one of these and i did thank you and you said that this is the real photo of Antarctica all right good times that was good right on well i mean i can't i can't determine what goes up and which doesn't you know so so this is the thing it's this beaver dream of well if you can't show me um in my terms and make the terms completely unreasonable then um you have to be wrong and you know i mean Nathan's welcome to his beliefs but nobody shares those beliefs because Nathan isn't doing anything to prove them all he's doing is the usual conspiracy theory of i'm going to throw this out and then you know sort of make it so specific and so wild that you have to disprove everything this is this is sort of what is done with conspiracy theories when people have a high conspiracy theory mindset and a low scientific intelligence what they do is they'll throw out conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory and hope that nobody notices that they're not actually doing anything to back it up which is what Nathan is doing yeah uh saliva boiling in a vacuum that's just a conspiracy theory i just made it up even though i showed you a video from nasa astronauts contradicting themselves saying that you can see stars in space and planets and Magellanic clouds but then other astronauts saying it's totally black you can't see it it's just a conspiracy theory that i just made up even though i showed video of the astronauts saying it with their freaking mouth do do whatever mark let's move to q&a your goofball bro we're done um there's no reason to form an article there's no reason to form an article bro this is a storm there's no i'm trying to calm yourself down you're like that you're like that's an article so so somebody's gone off the off the rails i think maybe calm yourself down and stop throwing around names Nathan and then sort of understand that all you do is present these chopped up videos which make it seem like this and as i pointed out your your flat earth conspiracy society did it the same for buzz aldrin misrepresented him that's very well documented um all of this is the same sort of tactics you are using and that's been demonstrated time and time again it's why nobody believes you because the credibility of the flat earth movement is absolutely abysmal um there's been so many things debunked that these guys have said and so with that i think we are about to move into a closing statement for both of our gentlemen interlocutors here and then we are going to head into the q&a but i do want to thank everyone out there especially those in the chattosphere on twitch and youtube we are actually getting closer and closer to 100 000 subscribers and it was all because of you guys and gals up there so i really do want to thank you however i want to give it one more chance to our interlocutors what do you have going on out there in the real worlds on the internet and also what are your final thoughts do you want to go first nice and sure no problem so currently i had youtube deleted so i'm not on youtube really i had my instagram erase i had my facebook group with 155 000 members deleted so i'm not doing much content creation anymore because they don't want you hearing people like me saying you can test the earth yourself it's obviously not curving eight inches per mile squared in all directions just look at the reflection off a large body of water that right there throws all of nasa's claims that you're on a globe out the window then you have the problem with gas pressure what we breathe they're telling you that all those lights in the sky you see at night are balls of gas in a vacuum ladies and gentlemen balls of gas do not form in vacuums and they don't light up either okay you put a ball of gas in a vacuum it's not going to just be this brilliant color changing star that's ridiculous okay they want you to believe down is up and up is down because if you'll believe them on that you'll believe all the other crap they're going to tell you so yeah and thanks for showing up to the debate sorry i had to get so annihilated mark but it was my pleasure i appreciate you thinking that a hurricane is an actual picture of the south pole after i showed a hundred images you pick the one that looks like a hurricane good stuff all right well thanks for moderating me it's been fun i'm ready for the q and a and then i got to walk to you because he is going crazy thank you so very much nathan and then i'm going to hand it right over to you mark what you got going on the inner webs and what are your final thoughts yeah thank you amy yeah i've got a debate coming up against uh christ for malty um for new years which should be fun um probably on is psychology a real science which i'll be taking the negative just for fun basically which is great um so nathan nathan just doesn't really understand anything about testing science experiments anything at all he's not involved in the field he's got no credentials in the field he basically and flat earth has done nothing but produce hot air over the hundred plus years it's been in existence um nasa has produced things it has done experiments it has shown the truth um these these so-called conspiracy theories and nathan's religious views are just that they're just a um um a sort of a a fever dream that he believes this thing to be true um gas balls can form in space with enough gravity that's been demonstrated um the the whole idea of the sun being plasma well nathan hasn't done anything to show what the sun is what the moon is he basically shirks his responsibility of showing anything and basically just makes claims and then says hey prove me wrong no that isn't how the burden of proof works a little nathan it has to be you showing why you are correct not me showing why you're wrong because you haven't done so you have just made assertions that this is doctored that's doctored my mate says it's doctored nobody cares what your mate thinks nobody i'm really sorry nathan but you have to come with more than just your assertions conspiracy theories and things like that and and i noticed that he did not answer my very basic question my very very basic question at the start maybe he wasn't paying attention wouldn't surprise me um is that who would take over aeronautics and space if not for nathan and he didn't answer that didn't touch it with a 10-foot barge pole so you know just fails to answer right now no hey hey hey hey hey i'll answer right now okay answer answer go ahead who's taking it over no one should take over faking space no one space is fake so who should do aeronautics uh is air is air space fake we have the air force i mean we had the right brothers back before we had nasa okay so we don't need nasa to build planes we don't need nasa to make air scrubbers or fire blankies with half a trillion dollars of my money yeah so that's irrelevant so the whole idea that only military should be involved in flight is the dumbest idea and that's not what i said the right excuse me this is my time this is my time this is my time this is my time this is my time shut up i'm going to separate both of you yeah yeah well i mean you're interrupting my closing which is indicative of somebody who has no good arguments and just has to yell and scream it's really indicative of how poor your argument is that you cannot adhere to you know the sort of debate structure um the reason why we don't just give all air flight to military and just whoever wants to do it is because of this mad guy that basically crashed his shuttle and died it's too unsafe we need an authority for this and so basically what what he's suggesting is that we just give it to the military civilian flight is just not a thing it's the dumbest idea anybody has ever come up with we have an aeronautic agency we do and they present to us the truth the fact that Nathan doesn't want to believe it isn't their problem it isn't my problem it isn't anybody's problem it's Nathan's problem thank you and with that i do want to thank both of our interlocutors for joining us on the debate we are going to kick it off into the q&a section for about 30 to 40 minutes so if you have a burning desire question please tag me at Amy Newman and your super chats will get sent right to the front of the list in fact monkey cat pat pat for two dollars is a say Nathan just look up james may be in a vacuum chamber let's try and stick with english and complete sentences yeah send in love monkey cat pat if uh i did you're wrong or if you want to resend that in but yes uh ten dollars from lusa madongo to Nathan i would love to discuss entropy and thermodynamics you know how to measure entropy per unit of measure right on flattered flyers at gmail.com hit me up thank you for both the question and response uh ten dollar super chat from mark for Nathan the benefit of doing pool tests is being able to see bubbles for design flaws you don't get that with everything less vacuum you don't get that with everything less vacuum mess please take a basic physics course yeah okay yeah you so we could see the bubbles in the space suit that's why they work in a pressurized environment when they're gonna train to go to a non pressurized environment absolutely brilliant thank you it looks like we're getting a comment in from monkey cat pat is asking Nathan to look up james may in a vacuum seems like that's a name so the question would be Nathan just look up james may in a vacuum chamber right is that the um top gear guy james may uh while we're doing that i do just have a quickly i just want to share my stream just very quickly because i've managed to find a video with some um ghosting as an artifact now that i've had a bit of time uh to check my stuff uh are we sharing yeah i can see it mark yeah you are good see that see his cheek artifact uh that's not the entire person requested the um you requested the video and there is the video thank you okay also how do we know he wasn't in front of a green screen he requests the video still doesn't believe it okay good one nice and many you didn't listen to my point my argument was that i know someone who does green screen for a living okay he's a subject matter expert that's what he does for work and he says the only way to make that happen is with a green screen and that wasn't the entire asian boy with glasses vanishing and turning into a ghost oh it's just a small portion of his chin that's that's not that's not in front of a green screen he's he's clearly at home um you know Nathan Nathan doesn't want to believe the video see this is this is the thing why people don't get stuff for Nathan he demands all this stuff you present it to him and he says nah i still don't believe it so what why bother you know why bother searching around for it that was an analogous to what i showed you yeah sure cool story right yeah show me the entire asian boy with glasses walking off screen and vanishing and turning into a ghost it was the entire it wasn't the entire guy vanishing up his life yeah it was and then Nathan last thing because it was for you so last statement joke no problem uh let's go ahead and show him vanishing completely off screen uh his entire body since marks just a liar and will not admit that his entire body vanished off screen so it's at about 50 something seconds there we go that's the entire astronaut turning into a ghost and vanishing not just this chin his entire body once he leaves the lighting in front of the green screen he vanishes so if you could show me something like that mark really appreciate it next question since it was for me you don't have to talk anymore five dollars from coffee mom Nathan do you have an alternate explanation for how you are using the internet for this debate to replace the science and engineering based on a globe uh internet doesn't prove you live on a globe guys okay the proof you live on a globe would be if you went outside and observe earth curving in all directions that and you can't i did it for six years mark says well i like to just make stupid ridiculous claims and i don't do any tests or any experiments i use lasers infrared high power zoom cameras i've got pictures of me using telescopes even though mark says i'm afraid of telescopes all to debunk the earth curve and i wasn't even my intention to debunk earth curve i just use those instruments to find out is the earth curving or not i prefer honestly ladies and gentlemen nasa wasn't stealing 60 million dollars a day and faking space and lying to us about where we live i would prefer it if they were maybe using you know the the money to tell us the truth and make space blankies and fire blankies and air scrubbers that would be great i would be on board with that the problem is that they're not and some people see it some people don't mark's very concerned with like how many people i can convince and nobody believes me i don't care if nobody believes me because i'm right i don't i'm not in a cult where i have to look around and go oh does that guy believe in space too oh does he believe in space oh okay well we're on the same cult cool i don't care if you believe all the same things everyone around you believes look around you're in a cult yeah i'd just like to add something to that you sure can as long as you know after that statement yeah absolutely after that unhinged ranting that we saw um the the um camera that he's probably using probably uses technology from nasa so the question was um how would you replace that technology that they have come up with so i don't think it's really fair that you haven't actually answered the question did you just say that they probably came up with the technology and that i needed to explain how how we would get it without them if they probably came up with it mark that was a question mark respond but nathan you do have to have the final statement well they they did i mean if you're talking about that mark you're done i spent an hour talking to you i got enough headache from you bro i don't have to look at your bald head anymore i'm getting questions from the audience ad hominems now that's nice and i don't have a really nice time is done you're doing this well actually i was adding something and the moderator said that was okay so that that's sort of why i all right it sort of okay i mean i know i know you've got an ally and on that victor yeah four five hundred shilling uh kenyon shilling uh nathan why are there no nasa whistleblowers not even one oh well that's not true i mean i just spoke with one who worked for the pentagon then he worked for nasa and he currently works for apple or google no it's apple but uh he was getting death threats and um look up sydney holland she's a nasa whistleblower she worked on the sr 71 with lachid martin and she's a total flat earther look up david beverly he's a nasa whistleblower the problem is that when someone comes out and says hey i worked for nasa they're lying about everything they either get death threats or you don't hear about them ladies and gentlemen i have no credibility i didn't work for nasa nothing i lost my youtube group i lost my facebook group i lost my instagram tinder yahu skype venmo i mean you they silence a guy who lives in his van with his dog and you don't think they're gonna science a nasa whistleblower bro i just talked to one last week he said he was getting death threat and he had to decide do i want to tell people nasa's line or do i want to keep my children okay so that's why you don't see a lot of nasa whistleblowers but it's not like they don't exist it's not like they're not out there and again it's just global rhetoric where give me someone to believe give me someone to believe i i can't go outside with a camera and verify everything they're saying is false myself so how about i'll just get someone who works for nasa and believe whatever they say it's stupid you guys are ridiculous yeah so i just add something no it's a question for me it's not your time every time we're not gonna do that enough time you can't uh very piffy but nathan you still if it's always your question you will always get the final word yeah i think that's fair um so i i don't know why nathan got thrown off as far as i understood it from people that i've talked to it's because he was sort of peddling dangerous misinformation that could affect people's health on a subject that i probably won't bring up on youtube because i don't want md d d want to get censored because they have to make sure nobody questions anything yes so when you when you just peddle medical misinformation that's when you get banned and then my youtube channel before covid even started google so just look into it you don't even know what you're talking about okay so i can't imagine why you're such i get to close no question wasn't for you mark two dollar super chat from shriek uh can you get professor david on the channel for a debate well a fantastic question we have actually had professor david here on modern day debate so go check those out on the catalog on your favorite podcasting platform but also if you want to see professor david or any of your favorite interlocutors out there on the interweb please feel free to hit us up on discord on email in chat and we will uh either find a way to reach out to them or if you know them even better feel free to reach out uh but yes send in love we're always looking for more great interlocutors and professor david's been on uh tim prior for five dollars i love how these people complain about nasa but have no problem using their technology they are so hypocritical it's not even funny well we gave them 50 million dollars yesterday and you guys are upset that we use their space blankies and airscarvers all right whatever dude but you can be upset about that five dollars from bitter truth nathan can you please share your education if you mind just trying to know if you can explain cosmology can you repeat that question was that did that make sense i was so convoluted uh and sometimes people uh depending on their level i was trying to squeeze in so i'm always sympathetic nathan can you please share your education if you mind just trying to know if you can explain cosmology so it seems like there's two parts to the sense uh sharing education and can you mind explaining cosmology uh yeah i learned how to count with my fingers and toes and you should test all things and verify what's true for yourself so thank you for the question bitter truth and the answer at nathan and five dollar super chat from bahans so he doctored the photo in 2002 to put on the first iphone in 2007 mark why did it take him five years to edit that picture um basically he edited the picture and then they used it for a rollout so um the the image is famous for being on the the edited image is famous for being on the front of the camera but they just chose that image he did the work beforehand to make a nicer image of the earth nobody's sort of trying to say that it's real and nobody's trying to say that i think the better question is how did he edit the photo back in 1972 before he was born i think it's the better question i think that's a permanent question because that seems to be what nathan was claiming so you know this is the kind of wild conspiracy theories that we get into it's it's hardly surprising that we get these ridiculous things but just because he edited it and then they decided to use it later doesn't mean that that doesn't really mean anything thank you for that question bonds and that answer mark and then another five dollar super chat from tim prior nathan's okay with them taking scans of earth but at the same time denies pictures can be taken of it and can't be measured yeah we lived on a flat earth and it wasn't a globe it would be very simple to scan the earth i heard someone that was in aviation school flat earther and they asked their professor how long would it take for um all the all the planes that do surveillance to map the entire earth and he said well if you had about 12 planes they could do it in about a day and so yeah scans are very possible to take on a flatter or a globe the problem is when you're telling people you have a picture of a globe and it's comprised of a bunch of scans that you started with a blank circle added a specular highlight to make it look like a ball and then adjusted the brightness and make it look pretty it's not a real image and it shouldn't be portrayed as real and we shouldn't be teaching it to kids as if it's the truth when you can go outside and verify that it's not and a 50 new zealand dollar super chat from a kango 44 question for nathan given you have no formal education in physics cosmology math computer graphics chemistry biology geology photography so can you please explain where you're getting your expert opinions from yeah i don't uh yeah i'm not super educated but i'm smart enough to know that if the earth's a bull 24901 miles around it would curve at a rate of eight inches per mile square which means that just 10 miles you would have 66 feet of drop tangent to your feet where you're standing and that would be in all directions not just like over there but it would be over there over there over there over there in all directions it would so you listen you don't have to be the smartest person in the world to figure out that you're being lied to and nasa is not trustworthy which was the topic of this debate not how many products do flat earthers put out and how many products do nasa put out nasa gets 50 million dollars a day i don't know about you know this but i get like 30 dollars a month on my patreon okay and people used to say five years ago oh nathan he's doing it for the money i don't have a youtube channel i don't have anything and i still come on here and tell you guys where you live like when are you going to get this through your thick skulls okay i love you guys that's it yeah maybe don't um i just want to add that that isn't the calculation for the curvature of the earth it's something that sort of flat earth is you know sort of trot oh what is the calculation mark um it's two times five times um so how much curve should we see over one mile and then mark after you answer that the pen um the final word yeah so if you could stop interrupting nathan that would be great thank you um so so basically the the yeah it's not about um what it produced but it sort of shows the trustworthiness that they have um had the results um that we expect from a scientific laboratory and a scientific establishment whereas flat earth isn't in that we haven't had the results we would expect from a scientific organization um that that's my entire point but it's also not about whether the earth is round or flat which nathan wants to keep going back there because you know he's obsessed crazily on this notion so um the the whole idea is is not nasa trustworthy you have to first presuppose a flat earth for them not to be trustworthy and that is you know another debate topic entirely and i've i've let it go because i want to be generous but you know nathan's hooked on this thing that's not true at all oh and benjamin was a glover and he didn't believe in the moon landing it didn't trust nasa as far as you could throw him dude and and he was adamant that we didn't go to the moon not trust nasa and he did not want to be a flat earth believer so this idea that you just said you have to believe in a flat earth to distrust nasa is ridiculous and not true and on that five dollar super chat from bitter truth nathan what's re retro reflector array what's retro reflector array i don't know the glober learned a new word he's like i want to ask nathan if he knows what this word is it's going to prove something doesn't prove anything i don't know what the word is you know send me an email let me know all about it thank you so very much better truth also if you want to tag uh me again we'll also ask it again but also thank you for your answer nathan uh moving forward can go for 44 for five dollars question for nathan did you stack toilet paper really high to disprove nasa no it's actually a funny story i got flown out from virginia to la by a couple guys that said they were harvard students turns out they weren't they were liars like the people at nasa because people who love liars will also turn out to be liars themselves so they folded toilet paper they said they did a a test with borat and kazakhstan and uh yeah they paid for everything and lied to my face and quite frankly i think they're a bunch of losers so but they did it not me go watch the video come on it was kind of funny you gotta admit it was kind of funny it was pretty hilarious yeah i'll agree yeah you know but if you gotta lie and and put on a whole charade to be funny it's it's really not that funny i mean you could be funny without lying to people without flying them away from their home and their family and their pets and their animals and then and make him waste their time okay it's not really cool it's disingenuous mark five dollar super chat from tim prior nathan you literally said he's the one that came up with the blue marble when the original was before he was born the blue marble was what maybe i was mistaken i thought the blue marble was what showed up on the iphone when people turned it on and the creator of that says he started with a blank circle it was not a picture of the earth so when this guy says we have pictures of the earth is a blue marble maybe i was a little confused may he was talking about a different picture than what i was talking about but hallelujah he pulled up the picture and said that there was one continent on that side of the globe which means there would be six other continents including the largest one on the other side brilliant excellent brilliant just crushing it um yeah so i just got something to add to that if you don't believe me maybe get yourself a globe like an actual globe um you know one that spins kind of thing in one of those things and look at it from the angle that that picture is taken and see how many continents you see and i actually said two after you know realizing that antarticle is in the picture but thanks for misrepresenting me nathan cheers last statement nathan actually you did say one okay anyone can go back and watch the debate you said one and then you changed your answer five dollar super chat from bands mark you can read the founders of nasa and jpl books and papers they tell you what they believe just because you haven't read them doesn't mean it's fake uh what i i i'll read that again mark yeah i you can read the founders of nasa and jpl books and papers they tell you what they believe just because you haven't read them does it mean it's fake well i mean yeah i i guess so it's just nasa and and i mean i'm presuming you mean naka the n a c a because that's where nasa came from so i presume that's what you're talking about um they they aren't the same organization back when they were sort of storing biplanes in barns kind of thing um this is called a genetic fallacy where you're basically sort of saying well the thing if its origin has this origin it must be the same thing and that is not true it's called a genetic fallacy it's like saying oh well um you know um originally when when we had um um um you know we're beating people with with rocks um you know as cavemen or whatever so therefore rocks must be used for that purpose that's it's not the same thing um the origin does not determine the current usage um and if you want to do do look up that fallacy but yeah i'm not sure exactly what they're getting at so i'll leave it with that and 500 from victor again nathan do you have any scientific evidence that contradicts anything nasa has produced yeah nasa produces pictures and tell you you live on a globe well the evidence that's not true is hydrostatics which state is to study of bodies of water at rest that anybody of water at rest will be level and horizontal to its container now you can look up the word level means free of bends curves and irregularities the synonyms would be flat plumb flush and straight so uh you yeah i mean just go outside water is the easiest proof everything nasa says is a lie they steal 50 million dollars a day we need to stop giving these people money we need to take these people to court so they can hang them high for high treason that's what we need to do straight up thank you for your question victor and your response nathan and five dollars from shane cup someone tell me why all the pictures nasa has of satellites are CGI no real pictures yeah that's because there are no real satellites at temporary helium balloons surveillance planes or drones you can do everything they say they do with satellites with you know a few things that we already have here on earth so and i didn't say that was question was for me mark you want to add anything yeah yeah sure um it's because i mean we see parts of satellites like the one that i showed where you saw the solar panel but the problem with taking a photo of the satellite is that you need another body to hold the camera as it were so it's a it's a major problem with things like the i mean the ISS is technically a satellite so you do see pictures of that sort of you know on an angle taken from exterior cameras of the ISS so those are real photos so we do see real photos of satellites it's just you basically will say they're fake because you know but yeah i mean if you're talking about these photos that nathan so kindly showing where who's holding you said photos can't we did you see which one's a photo mark which one the yeah nathan this is my time to talk mate so you know big fire so these these pictures are like where what what do we have to do like launch another satellite to take a picture of the satellite this is a problem because we can't do that it's unfeasible to do that but like if you go up and you know i noticed that nathan's skimming past that if you go up we do have partial shots of something like the ISS like down a bit down a bit down a bit yeah so up a bit oh my god all right so yeah maybe i should do this yeah it's on the left spotting satellites in orbit so we if they've mapped the camera is mounted on the exterior of a satellite we can take the photo if they're not we cannot take the photo because we don't have like somebody up there holding the camera as it were that's why there's not a lot of actual shots of satellites because we we can't launch a satellite to take a shot of a satellite it's just not practical that's why we don't do it but if something's mounted on an exterior of a large satellite and sort of the ISS or you know another satellite or if if a space shuttle is doing servicing of the satellite we can take a photo of it i don't know what nathan's doing right now i've got no idea what he's gonna say are we i'm gonna move on okay just making sure and on that christopher custom for five dollars may be shot this chair nathan if you're finished with that mate explain earthquakes on a flat earth mark i know you can explain for a globe so nathan explain earthquakes on a flat earth yeah the floor shakes sometimes and it's not a globe it's flat now the deepest whole dug is seven miles so mark can show you all kinds of cartoons about different layers of the earth and how what's below our feet is actually hotter than the surface of the sun but not only is that illogical and false it's just made up they don't know because they've only been seven miles deep so i don't have to know what's direct everything going on under the earth to test and verify that it's not curving in all directions so see falsification is independent of replacement which means if i can prove the earth's not a globe i don't have to come up with every answer for everything why do we put milk in our cereal how come bread rises when you cook it i don't need an answer for all that i falsified the earth curve that's why so it's not a globe like they claim so they can stop stealing 50 million dollars a day from us probably give someone back that'd be nice yeah so i think it was directed to me as well i'll just sort of say that yeah so when you go 10 miles underground it gets up to like 900 degrees it gets hot down there we know this for a fact um it's not a not a surprise um so plate tectonics the way that plates are basically moved by convection currents underneath the earth um in the magma and we know magma exists down there because you know volcanoes i don't know how you know Nathan explains that one might be a good question to follow it um but basically they move the the plates the plates rub against one another in the lateral way to create earthquakes they hit one another and at very slow speeds this is sort of very very long periods of time some are subducted and that causes a shaking of those continental plates or localized to um the fault lines on those plates and that causes the earthquakes that we experience and five dollar Amy that question was not for him at all he said i know mark so it it oh i thought it was mentioned included you both i think it definitely wanted you to answer Nathan but if you want Nathan yeah i'll let you have the last word i think he should have the last word and yeah you just said we know it's hot down there and then you guys want me to explain volcanoes and earthquakes okay the it's in the um uh the harp documents that harp could actually create earthquakes so the earthquakes don't all have to be natural they could also be man-made so and look into it i know you laugh but there's like eight things that that harp does including um mapping underground they can do all sorts of things with harp other than uh sending frequencies into the air so it's a multi-purpose establishment they do like eight different things so i'm just saying i mean uh the earthquakes don't all have to be natural some of them could be man-made that's admitted in their documents so uh he has in a addendum for the super chat Nathan if you would also like do you have any opinion on lava or magma yeah it's hot i got that's my opinion on it it's really bright and it comes from under the ground which mark and i will agree it's really hot down there and you got a lot of pressure anytime you had a lot of pressure to something it gets hot so if that makes sense that you would get some type of lava or magma definitely doesn't prove you're on a globe though thank you so very much Christopher for your super chat and Nathan and mark for your responses five dollar super chat from Tim prior again Tim thank you for all the super chat love another lie by Nathan all astronauts were not Freemasons literally two seconds of research says otherwise i never said all astronauts were freemasons it's an obvious straw man anyone watching debate go back look at the debate find out when i said all astronauts were freemasons i said there's a connection uh buzz aldrin was admittedly he admits he took a freemasonic flag to the moon and walked around when he was playing golf and riding around on dune buggy 60 years ago which we destroyed the technology and it's a painful process to do again so yeah good times so thanks for the question mark or uh or top read whatever that guy's name was uh Tim thank you Tim thank you Nathan and then another one for earth is life for five dollars Nathan what's the distance between Jonas Berg and Sydney on a flat earth not sure haven't measured it so kind of a silly question i don't know thank you so very much earth is life for your super chat and that answer Nathan and can go 44 again thank you for 10 new zealand Nathan i took your advice and tested the earth myself it's a globe Nathan why don't you do t-jump radar experiment you could measure the shape of the earth yourself yeah yeah these guys want me to spend ten thousand dollars to do a test that t-jump hasn't done doesn't have any proof of says he did it but there's no evidence so that's a really cool story but they want me to spend ten thousand dollars when i already spent uh thousands and thousands of dollars on high power telescopes uh the highest power zoom camera that's majorly manufactured the p-1000 i bought two of those and i had a p-900 when that was the highest power zoom camera that was available so this idea that like oh nathan he just refuses to do all this stuff like nice bold empty plane that you tested the earth and it was a globe okay cool story where is the evidence for that i'll be waiting for that youtube video globe head well i think the point is that it's pretty easy to find a ham radio you can sort of rent one or find somebody that's got one it's not exactly difficult nathan i think they're sort of asking why you haven't sort of taken steps to do it if it's so easy to do why hasn't t-jump the guy who proposed it done it mark he has he said he did oh he said oh yeah you're over here saying oh it's so easy to do it's so easy to do you could just rent one oh why doesn't he have any proof mark well they do it in universities all the time like no it's just a standard experiment for radio telecommunications that's why they don't have any proof of it no it's just standard they just do it all time yeah it's a globe right thanks mark it's it's like sort of experiments done in a vacuum mark i get the last word not by you haven't you figured that out yet that you don't get the last word so that means you get to shut up and listen to me and then we move on to the next question that's how it works okay you have some kind of kind of learning disability both of our lovely interlockers apart as better truth five dollars super chat i'm gonna read it how it is then read it how i think it's what it says can you please tell me what is expanding universe equation and explain it how this works nathan i think so can you please tell me what is expanding universe equation and explain how this works nathan yeah see glovers kind of like if they have like a formula or like they can do math it's like real so like they had a formula for how fast superman flies well then that would prove that superman's real and that superman can fly but the problem is they're saying that nothing the vacuum of nothing the universe of space is expanding okay so that would require a barrier from the point where space is expanding from okay so show me the edge of space the edge of nothing first then we can talk about if that nothing is expanding into into what into into more nothing i mean do you guys realize how stupid you sound i don't think you do i'm trying to help you but you sound incredibly dumb ten dollar super chat from indy tiger sci-fi review i navigated ships in the navy ships on the open ocean follow curves paths to reach their destination because the earth is a globe that wouldn't be needed if the earth were flat yeah that's cool the us coast guard puts out a geographic range table that lists distances you could see from at sea level so if you were on a globe in the ocean navigating the oceans you would not be able to see as far as the geographic range table states also you have the problem of celestial navigation okay you're you're asking oh you're expanding universe equation does nathan know it and then uh balls of gas and a vacuum with enough gravity if they have enough gravity then they can become balls well the gravity and space would be pulling everything toward everything else so you wouldn't have constellations which are fixed patterns of stars in the sky for thousands and thousands of years if we're moving 66 000 miles an hour around the sun which is moving 500 000 miles an hour daily roughly 20 to 30 million miles a day and you guys are over here like yeah well i was on a boat and i navigated and it's a globe well that's a cool story but i verified it to be false so thanks for the super chat thank you indy tiger sci-fi review and nathan and five dollar super chat from thunderstorm half a trillion and so many homeless real or fake there is something evil about it to me hey man dude i mean but they gave us space blankies and i think that's for me uh nathan i think that question is actually for me you can pretend i mean but it didn't say it was who is for it so so basically they're saying there's something evil about what we spend on nasa but it's to you is that what you kind of claim yeah they wanted me to agree with him and clap so that's what i'm doing yeah sure nathan another dream here we go um okay so again it's point five of the total spending of the american government budget the um just for a reference i'll just look up the department of defense um spending um per year and see where we're at from that um yeah no i'll agree the money we waste nathan this question is for me oh it wasn't it was not specifically for you it wasn't hallucinated do you get your fever dreams from you hallucinate they didn't say it was four so you're claiming that they called the budget of nasa evil and that is for the negative side of can we trust nasa i didn't make a disclaimer you did mark yeah aby could we make a call on who this question is for well i am just it it sounded like you had something to say mark on that yeah i think so i think nathan's back in his delusion i love both of our inner lockers um yeah so the department of defense is like 1.64 trillion um it's way so much more than nasa like seriously um i think it accounts for and i'm not sure of a percentage actually what percentage that is um i'll see if i can find it for you but there's a lot of departments that do use a lot of the budget and it does go all over the place i don't think it's evil considering the amount of sort of benefits it provides us and all of the things they've come up with and all of the research that we've made and if you're not in a delusion like nathan you can see that that advanced towards aeronautic travel and and rocketry space travel is actually a really good thing that that we're putting that money into and you know for the for you know the 0.5 percent of the budget it's actually really cheap i think that even just being one percent of the budget would do a lot and i wish my country spent more on space travel and less on defense and i would say that that is the same for your country um but it also provides a lot of technological advances that can help um with warfare it can help in our lives um i i don't think it's a great amount and nasa takes a lot less money out of the budget than you would think five dollar super chat from tim prior nathan how many times have you been told that eight in formula is wrong or that in hebrew there isn't even a word nasa uh no yeah it's actually in the strongest concordance bible nasa it's the word they satan use you know what amy can i show my screen because i'm just gonna go over this one real quick uh because people just cannot figure this one out themselves and it really just takes like 30 seconds of research so blue letter bible um satan receives e so um blue letter bible um hopefully this isn't an article and this is the actual genesis 126 oh it's genesis three where the ball is sorry guys i don't have the whole bible memorized yet i'm working on it no i don't want excess one okay so amy i'm here there was a second part to that question can you remind me what that was real quick here it is there we go can you see my screen that um amy yes okay look english beguiled me transliterated n a s a it says beguiled me look the serpent beguiled me the serpent nasa'd me so how easy was that globe heads pretty simple right i mean you could do all this stuff yourself you don't need nathan show up with zero credentials and teach you guys everything i mean give me a break give me a break so was there a second part to that question amy so the hebrew for nasa was the second part the eight in formula is wrong was the first part oh yeah mark was going to tell everyone how many inches of curve there are per mile uh you want to go ahead and do that mark yeah sure the formula to oh no not the formula mark i i excuse me nathan just i didn't ask for the formula yeah yeah shut up how much does it hurt yeah the question was for me so you don't even have to talk can i talk or is that something no so if you're not gonna give me a measurement well yeah so nathan's yeah well because because you asked a question i'm gonna let mark respond but then nathan you get the final word on whatever it says so the the formula is eight equals a square root of r plus h where r is the rate earth's radius and h is the height above c level squared minus r squared so when he's sort of saying hey what what should you see it depends on your height basically so there's sort of very very simplistic oh well you should see this much you know there's a number of assumptions of which may be completely faulty in that calculation um so the formula is eight equals the square root of r plus h squared minus r squared how much over one mile does earth curve mark depends on your height all right if you're at c level and you have zero observer height and on that note he gets the last word so within uh for any mark was gonna give me the earth curve if you want to it was your question if you want to respond then it's the square root of r squared minus r squared uh how much drop tangent to your feet an inches or feet mark go ahead give it to you so so you can't really if you're at zero height if you cannot see a thing because you're basically against the ground is what you're talking about you can't see anything nathan you cannot see anything oh right yourself put put a camera on the ground and see how many miles you can see nathan go for it enjoy that mate yeah i'm i'm i think i get uh uh who gets the last word here nathan does that's okay yeah i do so shut up yeah okay zero feet one mile this is the earth curve calculator website mark so i know you're confused about how much curve there should be on a globe but if you go to the earth curve calculator website mark you could be educated you don't need to learn from flat earth or nathan thompson what your globe religion is now your globe religion states at one mile target distance and zero feet you wouldn't see nothing mark there would be a target hidden height of point six six six boy isn't that interesting six six six feet okay which if you do the math mark i know flat earthers can't do math but i figured this one out is eight inches okay so when all the globers like this doofus in the comments say oh mate doesn't know how much earth should curve you need to go learn your own religion your own religion says how much it should curve and that's exactly what i said eight inches per mile that's the horizon difference shut up mark you're done you're done you're done you're done distance horizon distance is zero it's zero see you later pulling your boat apart and on that we got zero the horizon distance is zero we got questions for you mark or more of a comment yeah sure go ahead uh two dollar super chat from question the answers only a fool still ridicules flat earth it's flat sure i mean um that's sort of you can say that we've got a mass of evidence that the earth is a globe people have thought the earth is a globe from ancient greek days because they managed to figure out with a surprising level of accuracy actually so um yeah we've believed that the earth has been a globe the catholic church a lot of people like to say hey the christians believed it was flat no they didn't they knew it was a globe all all the way through um as i said the the start of the flat earth movement was 1890 something it it's a relatively new phenomenon um and um really doesn't have much traction because there's absolutely no evidence for it just sort of you know these these conspiracy theories and these well how does this work when they don't understand how it works like Nathan obviously didn't understand how that earth calculator works because he plugged in zero expecting to get a different number and he got a horizon distance of zero which is hilarious like it's so funny i didn't ask you where this is my time this is my time Nathan thank you very much thank you very much thank you for your way of pleading thank you thank you thank you so this is sort of he doesn't understand how these things work so it's sort of just a misunderstanding of physics of science of all the things that we have demonstrated to be true and then somebody with no credentials and no way of evaluating whether something is true or false goes to a curve calculator puts in zero expecting to get you know a certain distance and gets zero which is exactly what i said um so that that was funny though and so your horizon distance was zero you can i didn't ask you what the horizon distance will be zero yeah so this is this is actually my time so i didn't ask you what the horizon distance was mark i asked you how much drop we would see because you said eight no you said how far you should see that's what i said how much drop should there be tangent to your feet that's exactly what i said and you didn't have an answer that's exactly what i said i'm sure and so i i think i get the last last one on well i'll let you have the the last say on that because the next one is going to be for Nathan anyway but i do want to just send a lot of love we're getting a ton of super chats we're going to go into a little bit of overtime because i want to try and get all of your super chats in but in uh 10 or 15 minutes we are going to be closing up the gates on super chats because we value our interlocutors time and we want to let them get out in a reasonable still gonna read everything that i have we are enjoy the enthusiasm and i want to really thank all of you out there in the inner tubes but uh da da da Nathan um can i finish off like sort of give the last response because Nathan sort of jumped in and the question if you add something directly on your mind say it and then i'm gonna hand it back yeah sure okay so this is this is sort of what i was saying so so Nathan saying how far can we expect the drop to happen over a certain distance and it all depends on the height and what i said is if you put the height at zero you'll be able to see zero because that's the way the calculations work and then he puts it in gets zero and tries to say hey well i said something else no what i'm pointing out is that simplifying it down to an amount per distance isn't a good representative of how far you should be able to see because as the as the person before pointed out Nathan constantly misrepresents the formula to find the curvature of the earth so he just misrepresents it somebody gives him the right one he continues to misrepresent it then then he puts it into a calculator gets exactly the answer that we expect and then claims no that's what he never asked well done and i will hand it over to you Nathan but you also seem to have no no no i have the last word well it's a new it's a new question for him but i okay gotcha okay uh Nathan please debate tjump 1v1 i need that from jm for two dollars yeah i've debated him a ton of times and uh i asked you how much curve we should see tangent to our feet okay so how much drop tangent to our feet and the drop was eight inches so when people comment Nathan's eight inches is wrong he doesn't know what you're talking about it says eight inches on the earth curve calculator so there you go Amy next question thank you and i will say we always love tjump on modern day debate as well as Mark and Nathan we love our interlocutors and once again i'll keep saying it if you have a favorite interlocutor atheist theist liberal conservative doesn't matter globerflat send them to james coons to myself sideshow hannah all the lovely mods out there we will figure out a way to get them on here um okay earth first space later Nathan knows the selenion destroys heliocentrism that is s-e-l-e-n e-l-i-o-n the selenelion selenelion it's called on the globerth model the impossible eclipse because it wouldn't happen on a globe so uh also eclipses are claimed to be earth shadow some of them lunar eclipses are claimed to be earth shadow on the moon but the lunar eclipses are glowing red ladies and gentlemen now tell me when you've ever seen a shadow glowing red and here's a funny thing globers will walk right into this argument they'll say oh but it's being refracted by the earth's atmosphere it's it's because the weather well you got a problem with that one globe heads because now you got to predict the weather three four months years in advance for your lunar eclipse and let me tell you what that ain't happening so you got a problem there if it's refraction big problem but yeah doesn't look like a shadow at all it's glowing red the moon is self-illuminating it's light is cold it's wet it's moist unlike the sunlight which is hot dry and actually the sun's light is preserving the moonlight is putrefying so they are yin and yang that's where the symbol yin and yang comes from the sun which is round and the moon which is round orbiting around the flatter it's one of the oldest symbols in the book five dollars one thing yes please the um the the reason why it's red is because it's the sunlight passing horizontally through the atmosphere it's the same effect actually that gives the sunset and sunrise the red color which you know flat earthers can't seem to explain but it can be by passing through a lot of atmosphere on a horizontal sort of when it goes down behind the earth when it passes through a lot of atmosphere when it's going below the horizon it takes on a red color and that's exactly what is reflected onto the moon yeah i'll take that last word so it's basically an atmosphere conditions you can't predict atmospheric conditions six months a year in advance so and they actually admit they use the sorrow cycle to predict the eclipses the comment was about the selenolin eclipse which is deemed the impossible eclipse on the globe model just type in the impossible clips are going to start talking about selenolin eclipses where the shadow comes from the wrong direction comes from the bottom up when it should come from the top down nothing makes sense on the globe model but don't worry ladies and gentlemen we have experts at nasa that gave us space blankies and air scrubbers so we can believe everything they say five dollar super chat from tim prior when you have to confirm to yourself you're winning more than likely you're not and it's cute you still think south is down that's not a question thank you so very much uh tim prior for your super chat and moving to bitter truth for five dollars Nathan if you send out to the moon and you see earth is a globe will you still believe earth is flat yeah i call this the snoop dog fallacy this is this idea that to figure out where we live or what earth is we need to get high uh you don't need to get high to see that the earth is a globe you could test earth's curve from the surface it should curve eight inches per mile squared in all directions i just clearly showed that on the earth curve calculator so you learn something new every day glovers and it's my pleasure to teach you guys it really is thank you for your super chat response and a two dollar super chat from minecraft player i didn't watch but i like the shape of mark's head thank you for the super chat five dollars from tim prior it's a globe it's quite literal globe head it's funny how Nathan still thinks it's nasa that takes our money when they get their money from the government and have to have to do what they say with it that's a good point i want to bring this up because mark said that nasa is accountable to the government now i don't know if you know this mark but nasa is the government so it's like basically uh checking and balancing yourself which cops love to do this cops are like oh well we have a some guy who's misbehaving we're gonna look right into it don't worry us cops are going to judge the other cops and make sure that we're all doing the right thing okay so nasa being accountable to the government is basically mark's telling you guys nasa is accountable to nasa that times good good stuff excellent brilliant problem nine dollar super chat from coffee mom mark can you answer my previous questions on alternatives to internet tech based on a globe model nathan didn't want to and the uh what was that previous question previous question from coffee mom for five dollars nathan do you have an alternate explanation for how you are using the internet for this debate to replace the science and engineering based on a globe amy i did answer that question i said towers high altitude balloons they could have surveillance so well in fact what i'll separate this out so the way because you are name-checked nathan the way i'll handle this out mark have a response nathan have one and then mark will finish it yeah so the contributions to our our technology from nasa i mean they've worked on uh fiber optic sensors they've worked on all of those things and what we're doing is we're basically um we're basically can sort of bringing everybody together to work on these technologies to progress them as much as possible so nasa does contribute to the internet especially of course satellite internet um there there are places in australia and and i have worked on um alignment for satellite dishes myself uh in australian telecommunications there are places that would not have any internet connection if they do not have satellite same as true for something we have fox tell i'm not sure if you guys still have that it's kind of a bit out phase but there are places where they still do you satellite communications to beam down entertainment um all of this would not work on on nathan's flat earth if there's no satellites it would not work gps wouldn't work there's a lot of stuff that just would not work without um um nathans uh why am i looking at a share screen right now i don't understand uh is someone sharing their screen over the top of me i don't understand why because i'm sort of currently talking you can talk while i share images on a screen mark yeah i don't think that's fair i don't think that's fair nathan it's basically just sort of you showing pictures while i'm trying to talk it's it's kind of pretty rude actually the picture share your screen when it's your time please yeah no problem but i can also share it when it's your time like i'm doing right now can i can i share can i share my screen when it's your time if you want to yeah and i'm not currently sharing something yeah no problem bro go ahead no no no when you're talking i'll share my screen if that's okay go ahead if it's relevant the debate and what we're talking about which this is yeah so um basically um that they don't have a technology to replace um satellite communications and the kind of communications that are like this um yeah so it's really up to Nathan to show that um feasibly um we can sort of produce the same results with flat earth technology which flat earth technology doesn't exist so you know and uh and i will uh you were already screen sharing and i will i'm going to let that and then uh future will go back and forth uh but it was it's already right now Nathan's turn because mark just had his and then mark will have the final word but i'll be sharing my screen for this one actually i have something to share right now it's tough you shared your screen you shared your screen while i didn't have anything to do i have stuff because i do have stuff to share that was the first time it happened and so we'll just call that a freebie for both sides but then moving forward whoever is talking will be the person who gets this share screen okay so i'm going to share my screen now she just said we're not doing that at dupus well uh well technically speaking it is your turn right now Nathan so it was my turn and he shared his so why are you talking it's not your turn mark you will be able to have the final word and uh we'll switch to your screen share when he has done his statement great mark's super confused on how we don't have like metal boxes floating 18 000 miles an hour in a vacuum of nothing and how flat earth would explain that well go ahead let's take a look maybe just 30 seconds 45 seconds at this video a manufacturing system that can manufacture many many of these balloons we're going to need to have a mission control system that can keep track of the balloons we're going to need to have an operations team that can launch these balloons and then recover them when they're ready to come down so each piece of the process got to be bigger had to scale up it was pretty challenging getting the balloons to be more durable so basically what he's saying is now we've gotten to the point where we can make thousands of these balloons a day and mark's over here like well how could we get signals from the sky if they're not in space it's ridiculous bro you think you're going to spend billions of dollars on satellites in space when they can put one of these up for 20 50 000 dollars you think that's monetarily feasible it's ridiculous that's why all the cartoons or satellites in space are cartoons because they're not real you have a hocus pocus booga booga fairytale religion mark and i demolished it in this debate thank you and then it is up to you for the final say mark thank you and i'll share my screen the reason why that Nathan has to sort of say i demolished my destroyers because his arguments have been so poor my arguments stand on their own merits i will support them this is the kind of thing that we're talking about satellite communications this is probably uh this one is probably a ground station at um i don't know actually know where it is but it does look like uh there's one at garner there there are tons of these that point either up or straight up they do not focus the loons um let's have a look at Nathan's project and see who's actually ranting incoherently there's how google shut down the loon helium balloon project the exact project we were just shown oh dear oh dear why did it fail um it failed um there's a difference between potentialization actualization it's execution is less than ideal for long term sustainable business it basically did not work could not work it was not feasible to do so because it was too expensive it was shut down now i'm saying you possibly could make it work if you wanted to spend way too much money on something that is inferior to satellites but you know we've got all of this equipment to do satellites and it does work i don't know why um Nathan's fever dream of putting balloons up you know which balloon is this pointed in it's a balloon directly above is it it's a very very strange of Nathan to sort of claiming this um this one is obviously targeting some sort of balloon straight up no there's a targeting satellite they're not targeting balloons um there's no reason why you would need a dish of this size to target a balloon there's there's absolutely no way but if you're targeting a satellite which is out of atmosphere absolutely you do a hundred percent you do um so that is the actual science behind um satellite internet been around for ages i've worked with it i've talked to technicians working with it i've gotten coordinates and aligned dishes or rather giving it to the technicians to align dishes with it's a thing and so you know sort of Nathan puts up balloons of the project that failed to sort of say hey it's balloons um wow well done Nathan add on that note five dollars from Tim Pryor but they didn't silence all the other Flat Earth channels did they Nathan i know yeah they didn't actually they do uh they shadow ban them they they admitted to the senate that youtube is censoring Flat Earth so if you think that they just deleted my channel and all the other Flat Earthers are just willy-milly their videos are all getting promoted you are smoking crack and a two dollar super chat from Sharik Nathan what is your educational background i've memorized pi up to 300 digits and i can write mirror image left handed i taught myself five dollars super chat from rad crab Nathan what would be the actual purpose for nasa lying what are they trying to hide and why yeah that's a good question you know like i said earlier in my opening i'm not miss cleo i don't have a crystal ball you want me to divine their motives for stealing 50 million dollars a day from taxpayers well let's start with the obvious they get 50 million dollars a day from taxpayers and mark over here will be like oh that's nothing compared to defense spending and stuff uh it's all stolen money okay so the fact that you're like oh they steal 50 million and compared to what they use for defense with the money they steal it's minuscule no 50 million dollars a day mark is a ton of money a ton of money and when it comes in every single day that starts to add up so for you to be like well flat earthers don't do anything they haven't invented space blankets and they haven't invented air scrubbers okay well try giving me 50 million dollars a day for 50 years and see what i come up with okay probably pretty cool so thanks for the question appreciate it five dollar super chat from upside down guy does Nathan still chase kids around during recess does mark acknowledge that there is no proof that the sun orbits the earth and is only a belief Nathan i think you're name check first yeah no i still chase kids at school grounds all time i'm only blocked from 80 schools in uh south carolina so other than that i can approach schools and talk to children about the reality of where we live anywhere yeah who to fuck it's america free country kind of weird huh and then mark uh yeah that's kind of scary and unsettling i don't know why you're hanging around schools at all but i probably wouldn't as a grown man um so yeah no the earth the sun doesn't go around the earth i acknowledge there's no evidence for the sun going around the earth it's more the earth goes around the sun opposite way around i'm not sure if that was sort of intentional but um yeah i acknowledge that there's no evidence that the sun goes around the earth amy i think you got to read that question again i don't think mark got it sure maybe it was the other way does mark acknowledge that there is no proof that the sun orbits the earth and is only a belief sorry who didn't read it who didn't read it sorry i think that person can comment actually misspoke what they meant to say was that there's no proof well i've answered it as it was asked so maybe it was you that misheard at nathan so well done on that maybe you should upside down guy if it was a mistake just tell me in chat and i will read it sure sure uh but yes moving along bitter truth to for ten dollars nathan the apollo 11 lunar laser ranging retro reflector array placed by neil armstrong you even don't know now if you shoot a laser at the moon will reflect back just because of the retro reflector hilarious they were getting reflections back and pinging the moon in the early sixties before anyone ever faked going to the moon so that's a cool story but you need to look into a little bit deeper thank you for your question bear truth and your answer nathan and then a two-dollar super chat from jay vansical if gravity is real would planes account for curve is that to me i am not sure anyone want to take a shot yeah it's a big in the question fallacy because you're assuming that there is curve and then asking what airplanes account for well the faa on their target generation facility states that pilots are trained on flat earth software over a non rotating earth and they negate a gravity vector now if gravity was getting stronger and stronger exponentially according to glober's formulas which they love formulas so it's exponentially stronger the closer you get to earth the airplanes and pilots would need to know about that but the faa just says hey we'll just negate the gravity vector all together that's interesting right yeah so we don't know who it's for so i'll sort of jump in as well because i think it was for me well anyway it could be either really but basically um they do account for gravity obviously because there is a downward force they just once they get up to speed the lateral speed essentially negates gravity because if you are traveling at speed you know gravity has a less impact on you um they train assuming a fat flat earth and they do account for curvature what they do is they use an altometer to keep the right altitude and therefore if if there's a curve and around the curve is the same altitude then keeping the same altitude will account for that curve it's a very simple premise so jay is saying so i'm going to let him have a last response that it was for nathan so if gravity is real would planes account for curve yeah if the earth was a ball airplanes would account for curve that's for sure so and all right two dollar super chat coming in from bitter truth nathan please write a book to get Nobel peace prize hello wow that was so funny i laughed so hard i fell off my dinosaur that was kind of funny two dollar super chat from jesse l negative 200 to plus 200 degrees on lunar moon land air worked flawless all right thank you so very much jesse l for the love we're sending that love right back earth first space later for five dollars nathan explain a selenelian i still can't say selenelian selenelian it took me like a week to get a me and i looked at every day so it's a hard one he wants me to explain it uh selenelian eclipse yeah that's when the sun and moon are both visible at the same time during an eclipse when globe heads will tell you the earth is in the middle of both of those two objects now if you're on a ball and the sun's on one side and the earth is casting a shadow on the moon on the completely other side you wouldn't have the sun and moon both visible to a single observer during a lunar eclipse great super chat earth first space later you are a legend uh well to be fair i think he asked you to explain it on a flat earth nathan you think did he yeah i do yeah we'll read the question again if you want yeah go ahead it just says nathan explain it though if he does mean with that send it in chat and i'll add that asterisk uh because we're sending love to everybody who sends love to us but moving forward ten dollars from tim prior about eight billion people on this planet looking outside right now don't see any cars according to nathan's logic cars must not exist since we can't see satellites all the time yep yeah cars don't exist according to my logic good call well i can see one in the background so five dollars yeah that's artifacting CGI okay five dollars super chat from brad brad anderson nathan as a boat captain how can i navigate a flat earth with our latitude longitude system when longitude coverage is again below the equator uh you know i haven't done too much celestial navigating myself but i know that south of the equator it's more difficult because you can't see Polaris which the fact we have a Polaris Polestar that lined up for a hole in the georgia guide stones for 40 years when globers say we're moving around an ever-expanding space and everything's attracted to it at breakneck speeds i mean the sun's moving half a million miles an hour on the globe model and they erected stones in georgia that had a hole pointing towards Polaris for 40 years and i filmed it so on my youtube channel so that's that's pretty interesting so that's what i got the the Polestar of the south pole is um alpha pictos i think it's not stationary analogous to Polaris five dollars trumpian prior nathan shanks thanks for showing again why flat earthers mean nothing in the real world and why you depend on us for technology yeah i don't i don't depend on you guys for anything you guys don't do anything you guys give 50 million dollars a day to nasa so they can make space blankets and air scrubbers and think that that's worth 50 million dollars a day come on guys let's let's be real you're not doing that you didn't invent space blankets and you didn't invent the air scrubber you didn't do anything mark why oh from patty q for five dollars mark why what do you think about operation paperclip nathan you're doing yourself a disservice by being condescending yeah so operation paperclip was basically in the very last days of world war two the american forces captured some camps with a lot sort of 1600 from memory scientists and technicians from the german side now instead of what they would have had to do because they were under a treaty with russia is to give up that area back to russia and russia would have essentially gotten all of those scientists so instead they decided to bring them with them the fbi did a lot of checking and they basically sorted out who was a loyal nazi and who was actually just a german that would basically was just working because that's what their country demanded from them so there were people that were sent back to germany because they decided no we cannot have these people working in our country there were people that were sent to south america because of exactly the same reason so they basically took the the the best minds that were acceptable to the people of america werner von braun was definitely one of them i have mixed feelings about this um i probably would have liked to see more punishment for them i think that working on behalf of the united states who they they sort of contributed fighting against is a punishment that um or you know is something that sort of redeemed them however i'm not sure while practical i'm not sure it was a moral thing to do however this led to the cold war in america having rocket superiority through the cold war so it and and they worked with a lot of jewish people jewish directors of nasa silvestine who directed nasa had a famous friendship with von braun um it led to currently where the technological superiority of the us is so practically it was a good idea morally i would have liked to see more punishment for them and thank you for that super chat and response and then oh wait uh nathan you're doing yourself a disservice by being condescending yeah well i believe i don't believe in organizations that brought over 1600 nazis and they tell you you live on a ball in space which you could verify yourself with a high-power zoom camera telescope and it's objectively provably false two-dollar super chat from da freak has nathan ever worked or contracted for the government no i don't think i have i actually i did do a catering event that donald rumsfeld was at and uh i stole his little name tag thing like they have names where everyone's going to sit down and they had a little name tag that's about the closest i've got to working for the government ah conspiracy he's a government agent you heard it here first folks ten dollar super chat from tim fryer another live by nathan you have cameras not telescopes not once have you used a telescope to focus in on planets let me say this again cameras are not telescopes this is why we laugh uh yeah i could prove that's wrong in about 10 seconds hold on one second here's me with my dad who's a flat earther and there's a telescope that we used to look at planets also i was at like contra train doing observations because i'm more concerned with their if irsa globe and curves what then looking at planets in the sky so i use telescopes all the time i don't i don't know what globes are talking about it's like they just like have this idea in their head that like and they oh here it is so that's a lake poncha train those are uh telescopes yeah right there next to me so nice try globe but but you're wrong again sucks to suck two dollar five dollar super chat from neon sol one eight inches per mile squared is a parabola education doesn't hurt two nathan trust nasa as soon as it fits his narrative so nasa is trustworthy mark wins yeah eight inches per mile squared i just showed is a parabola i just showed you the earth curve calculator amy let's go ahead and share the screen again uh and we'll show them that when you type into the earth curve calculator now this is not a parabola earth this is allegedly a globe earth ladies and gentlemen you type in the target distance one mile it gives you eight inches point six six six feet uh so there then you need to contact the earth curve calculator website and tell them hey dude it's a parabola and and then here's the problem even if it is a parabola parabola i've got the autocad the sagida and the Pythagorean theorem showing that eight inches per mile squared is what earth would occur up to about a thousand miles they're all accurate they're all the same so if you're doing observations beyond a thousand miles the earth's definitely flat but also then you could uh worry about the formula but eight inches works for sagida it works for autocad works for Pythagorean theorem it works for the globe charts that wrote this earth calculator website so you need to figure out your own religion and then figure out that it's fake and not true then we can talk okay thank you ten dollar super chat from bitter truth Nathan i worked as chief engineer on a cargo my question if i travel all the way east i will be able will i be able onto the hold on i'll read it the the regular way that i'll i'll read it nathan i worked as a chief engineer on a cargo my question if i travel all the way east i will be back on the same place where i start traveling this telling me earth is globe can you explain flat earth so he's saying if you if you travel east and get back to that proves you're on a ball well the glover obviously is that 2015 argument hasn't spent a lick of time researching flat earth because on a flat earth the compass points towards polar center and heading east or west in one direction just east or west is a circle now i don't know if you know this but you can go in a circle on a flat earth too for example when i walk my dog after this debate we're going to go in a circle around my neighborhood i'm going to circumnavigate my neighborhood now is my neighborhood a ball this glover would say yes definitely prove you're on a ball the problem is my neighborhood's not a ball and you're just a silly globe head thank you and another five dollar super chat coming in from bitter truth flat earth because it's in a holy book but if it was globe Nathan will be debating earth is globe mark name checked both of you so in the end you both get something yeah i think so yeah mark kept bringing up the bible not me all i mentioned was that the Hebrew word for deceive is nasa okay none of my arguments are hey the flat the bible is in a flat earth book so so the earth is flat that's what we're talking about the topic of the debate is is nasa trustworthy trustworthy and nowhere was i like oh well they're definitely not trustworthy because of the bible like you guys need to clean the wax out of your ears you're obviously not even okay do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth but you were the one that brought up the bible so you know i think it's fair that that you know we do discuss your best of interest in the bible being i was a globe head and a christian so um yeah yeah so so the whole i was a globe head and a christian for 10 years this is sort of the possible you know condescension that people are talking about in their super chats is exactly what they're sort of outgoing appeal to emotion i mean you did you did bring up the bible i think it's only fair that we sort of examine your religious bias you brought up the bible more than i did mark go count them go count the number of times you brought it up first you talked about my religious beliefs and now i have all this i talked about i didn't talk about the bible at all i said in the but in the garden of e the word deceive means nasa and that was it and then i moved on and you're like well that's nathan's whole argument is he just believes in the bible no the bible says don't believe in the bible it says test all things and hold fast to that which is true you guys actually so you brought up the bible you would know that the bible doesn't say do i only believe everything the bible says because it's a holy book the bible actually says test and verify now reluctantly i think it's fair that if you bring up the bible we get to discuss it i think that's fair and sort of so used a quote out of the bible to back up your argument so i think it's fair that i get to examine that your arguments are in part based upon what the bible says and so i want to send love out into the internet and shadow sphere this is going to be the final warning if you want your super chat read now is the time to do so we are going to finish up the last few and then send love to both of our interlocutors but indy tiger's sci-fi review for 20 dollars we appreciate the support i did celestial navigation nathan the constellations are generally moving with us so they stay together for thousands of years and yeah it is a cool story bro that i've done something very few humans have done yeah you're right i mean the entire universe that we see is just locked in motion with the earth as we travel through the infinite galaxy of space that's a cool story glover but you know what works just fine on a flat earth too with fixed stars in the firmament that have a cyclical nature so two dollar super chat from twad wasl mark is the horizon geometric is the horizon geometric yes the horizon the physical curve of the earth mark well no the the horizon is an apparent thing it depends on whether you're talking about the geometric horizon or the apparent horizon so bones don't just disappear over the curve mark is that what you're saying uh this is my question nathan i was just looking for a little clarification not to mention you take the opportunity to see i'm i get a question so i should be able to do it every once in a while too mark a big cry baby wow yeah so i i would probably get the last word because nathan um is really upset and sort of having a bit of a tanty over there tantrum uh it was technically your question so you do get yeah yeah so yeah they do vanish over the edge of the horizon but if you're talking about where the line is the physical line that we see or where the refraction is causing the horizon to be in a different place that is two different horizons we have an apparent horizon you have a geometric horizon so um sometimes they are in the same place if no refraction is going on um but yeah boats do vanish over horizon and we can show that and unfortunately flat earth has absolutely no way to explain that besides some sort of magic physics that the they have um where where things vanish from the bottom up because reasons i guess so we have magic physics but you claim two horizons you freaking goofball bro there's not two horizons there's just one horizon it's the one that we see the apparent conjunction of the sky and the earth and then you just admit it it's not earth curve so thank you boats don't disappear over the curve of the earth mark is somewhat honest yeah so what what um this guy is doing is basically just sort of trying to conflate things and you know it's an ambiguous question about whether um the horizon is an apparent horizon um i think throwing the word in geometric sort of suggests that it is um the horizon of the earth but unfortunately Nathan wants to sort of bray and you know puff his chest and that's cool that's cool he can do that um but boats still do vanish over the horizon we see that every day we have footage of that um the magic physics that they're using is that basically that somehow light from the bottom doesn't get to you whereas light from the top does and so they vanish from the bottom up which you know goes against all physics we know and for some reason the flat earth that's been around for over a hundred years can't demonstrate this they just basically assert it and rely on their magic and their stuff to for it to happen well we know why it happens and it's because the earth is around and it has a horizon that boats do vanish over thank you for those answers and then ten dollar super chat from Tim Pryor i'll do a debate with Nathan if he can prove flat earth without mentioning the globe and debunk every single piece of evidence that we have who wants to bet that he can't that was a boring question Max and i will say Tim that if you reach out to us and you uh have a debate topic and you have an interlocutor in mind that always helps we always love to set that up and have some fun uh and another does Tim Pryor five dollars Nathan how far should we see on flat earth how far how far how far yeah you have nothing you have nothing uh yeah well we should see it depends on atmospheric conditions the world excuse me Marcus my turn can you go on mute my turn um we see what we see how far we see the earth is flat so how far should we see on a flat earth go outside however far you can see that's how far you can see on a flat earth i don't know how much more difficult that needs to be real scientific it's simple stuff super what's the equation for that Nathan the world record photograph a mark you want to super chat a question go ahead and type it in okay you're done you can have the last word you can have the last word you're done talking to me you're done asking me questions two dollars no no no i think you can have the last no i'm not going to make the last word because i asked him to provide the equation so he gets the last word yeah world photo bar day of cranes it's a mountain 230 miles away it should be under 50 000 feet of earth curve fortunately for me in this debate there's no such thing as earth curve so we can see the mountain and it is the world record photograph so don't trust nasa five dollar super chat from tim prior the one thing Nathan was right about all night is that one super chat wasn't a question it was a statement congratulations i rule thank you tim thank you Nathan two dollars from rad crab just send in love solve your comment and uh yeah send in love right back and then famo for unrelated but you're sending us love possibly a different debate but was building seven a controlled demolition that uh pot hey we love doing all sorts of debates so that may be up for a possible in the future and then tim prior wait i want to answer that it was not a controlled it was an uncontrolled demolition world trade center seven blew itself up so there you go that okay moving forward thank you famio for the question and Nathan for the response and then five dollar super chat from tim prior really Nathan if they were afraid of you guys spilling the truth then no flatter of channel would exist your logic is flawed yeah that's great just no flatter channel whatever exists brilliant brilliant argument good times five dollars from tim prior literally bragging about being banned from schools do i really need to say anything else yeah standing up for the truth and teaching kids the truth is a badge of honor i mean i don't know what else to tell you people so you guys think it's bad that's fine cry me a river i don't care five dollars from brad anderson clarify longitude lines starts at north spreads until reaching equator then comes back together at south lat slash long does not need celestial nav yeah it doesn't need celestial nav but that's one way to figure out your latitude is by looking at pularis that's all i was saying earlier so two dollar from tim prior Nathan tell us where the big numbers touched you say big numbers all you want doesn't mean anything this is why you're a tiny percent of the world's population that guy's triggered four dollars from brad anderson and thank you tim and nathan for your responses brad says more clarity longitude lines would necessarily need to keep spreading apart when continuing south mark can you please elaborate to nathan yeah so what you'd have is because the radius of this this disk that nathan's proposing the radius of the outer latitude lines is is wider and wider and wider we would find a mass disparity between say a latitudinal line in the center and the latitudinal line at the south pole the latitudinal line at the south pole which for nathan is every point around the edge of that disk the the latitudinal lines would be massive like just the size of the disk but what we don't find that what we find is that sort of you know a boat that uses a latitudinal line around Antarctica travels a very short amount of time while you know they don't travel a huge distance and if somebody has done sort of navigation of cargo in the southern hemisphere they they they would know that because the southern hemisphere in sort of nathan's sort of fever dream disk is so big compared to the uh you know if it's a ball or a globe or an oblate spheroid it would come back to be small latitude lines as well and that's what the guy's talking about yeah explain why captain cook took three years to go 60 000 miles around Antarctica then yeah because he's in a sailboat like he uses sails oh and the circumference of Antarctica is 60 000 miles on a globe with a radius no but he also visited yeah yeah he also visited islands and called in on islands as well so he wasn't doing just a circumnavigation of Antarctica he was actually doing exploration which if you're going to islands staying there for sometimes great periods of time having to go back restock in the age of sail and wind it takes a much longer time than just somebody transporting cargo in one of a modern ship that is just going around the Antarctica yep 60 000 miles in three years to go around a 12 000 mile Antarctica cool story mark makes perfect sense well done well he wasn't just i don't think he listened to what i said he wasn't just going around Antarctica he was exploring so he was going up into the Pacific as well it like he didn't he didn't go like you know in the in the ice to Antarctica you know he was exploring you don't know what exploring means don't you yeah i know that it wouldn't take three years and you wouldn't have to go 60 000 miles to get around Antarctica mark cool story bud maybe we can find where he actually went do you want to do that and i will say we have gotten our super chats in so i'm going to read the last of these and then this is going to be is NASA trustworthy and i want to continue thanking mark and Nathan for having fun and all of the people for joining us out there and sending in super chats could i just share my screen quickly sure i can so this is um basically his idea the green one green trip is his idea of him exploring around Antarctica so as we can see here he's been gone to over to here to over to there down back up as you get further up as we've said the lines of longitude get longer not smaller so as he's gone back up towards the equator the equator obviously being the longest line of latitude on the planet um he's basically taken more time drops into New Zealand comes back out roamed the pacific this is this is his three-year journeys that that sort of Nathan is trying to say hey it wouldn't have taken in that time and this is in with a tall ship that uses exclusively wind to travel so yeah Nathan's just sort of again does not really have an idea of what what he's saying thank you so very much thank you love to abel i saw you send two dollars in for the love send that love right back and then wilson destroyer of worlds for two dollars whose garage is nathan streaming from little wane twid wasle for three dollars mark if it isn't geometric it has no distance if it's not geometric it has no distance and i'm not i don't know what he's trying to say if your curve is not the horizon mark then that means that you cannot measure the distance to the horizon because it's not physical or geometric that's what he means well no we can we can measure sort of refractive index and and measure that kind of thing so it is measurable the the whole idea of a geometric horizon is that it is where the horizon ends as opposed to what a local horizon i think it's called whereas sort of what you can see to blocked by mountains and things like that is still very well understood and we can we can certainly measure it but you've got to know the refractive index of what you're looking at um yeah it's just it's just a really weird question that's all that that sort of you know nathan wants to say hey if you don't know exactly what this is how can you measure it we can still measure refraction i don't know why he thinks that we wouldn't i mean just because he can't doesn't mean that nobody can't to the question is even about measuring refraction it was about the distance to the horizon you do this yeah so this is um my time so i'll finish the thing so name calling and sort of you know insulting people this just shows that he has no argument whatsoever um i've explained how that um the geometric horizon is where the apparent earth ends and um ships have gone over it he's got nothing except to say hey i don't understand it and i'm going to call your names because you know he's incredibly insecure um so you know i've explained what i know about it i do note that this isn't about the horizon it's about whether nasa is trustworthy as much as nathan wants to make it about his you know fever dream flat earth um there's there's no problem with this nor measuring it nor our understanding of where the geometric horizon is it's only because nathan doesn't understand it that he doesn't believe it it essentially essentially it is an argument from incredulity is what it is and that's what it boils down to yeah when you say we have two horizons i don't understand it because it's stupid and doesn't make sense we only have one horizon you go yeah so so yeah yeah yeah so i get the final word so yeah again nathan has to rely on insults and condescension you didn't listen to what i said because what i said was you claim two horizons i didn't just call you names it's not my entire argument you claim we have two horizons we don't we only have one horizon you need to get your eyes checked mark yeah so as i was saying before the geometric horizon is where we can say to a local horizon is where it's impacted by mountains or towns or whatever again nathan just likes to yell names because he's got no arguments he's got nothing going for him he just you know needs to act this way um the the whole idea that there are two horizons may actually be correct because if you've got refraction creating an artificial horizon and the real horizon that where the point at which the land ends is a appears to be a different spot and we can measure that through through various means um you may indeed have two horizons one a apparent horizon and one a actual horizon which nathan knows but he's just using an argument from incredulity to sort of say hey don't believe this because i personally don't believe it that's you don't have all the answers mark you don't have all the answers um so i'll finish again amy if we could stop this because this is going to go on forever if tinfoil over here decides to go on just say one sentence thing yeah yeah so so we've got equations for this i noticed that nathan can't even give an equation for anything so you mean he shouts and yells and carries on and calls names but really he's got nothing to back him up besides his opinion and on that five dollar super chat from tim prior eight inches per square mile was from a flat earther who did not understand things we did not come up with that yeah well it's still on the earth curve calculator so someone needs to contact the globe head that runs the earth curve calculator i debated him in vegas he got destroyed he said he actually sees the curve from 40 000 feet uh yeah the meta bunk guy i don't even know his name guys have to read it um so yeah i it's and mark claiming i have no formulas eight inches per mile squared there's a formula for you and it's verified on your website and you guys will sit there and say i'm wrong it's on your earth curve website you need to study your own religion and math thanks amy and so i saw super chats come in from majolin and mackerville and i just want to thank both of you for sending in for the love and support but we just have a final question for each of our two interlocutors and then we are heading out so starting five dollar super chat from upside down guy mark do you agree there is no proof the earth orbits the sun and that the orbits are just a scientific argument without proof hashtag faith without proof told you that's what he meant mark you goofball well then he should write it in a way that that is uh accurate i can only answer the question that's there um there is proof that the earth goes around the sun absolutely we have gravitational equations we have um a ton of evidence that the earth goes around the sun name one it yeah nathan if you could just control your tantrums for a second that'd be great just one mark this debate isn't about um flat earth this is about whether we can trust nasa so um we have seen um the earth going around the sun there is a lot of evidence for the earth going around the sun um we're waiting for you to tell us what it is mark well i just want to say i see bitter truth as well thank you so very much for all the love and all of that yeah i'll just look something yeah so the best thing is like um parallax shift in stars right so we can tell when stars are very slightly moving and if the stars closer to us are moving more then the stars further away and we can tell how far the stars are um then we are definitely moving in space so that is the main reason why they say correlation does not equal causation mark so you can say lights in the sky move and that means we orbit around the sun but it could just be that the lights in the sky move mark is rocket surgery so yeah correlation isn't causation mark you know that right i'm sorry i'm not familiar with rocket surgery maybe you can explain that one to me but um basically it's these parallax shifts that we know are main that the earth is going around the sun nathan doesn't have anything to demonstrate this well we've got a lot of evidence and calculations for what how we should see the stars move from cosmologists nathan basically has his able to count on his fingers and toes up to about 20 as he said earlier um that's basically what he's coming with so yeah if you want to believe somebody who has never worked in cosmology before sure yeah believe nathan that hey the stars are moving to trick us into thinking that the earth is going around the sun for some reason maybe it's a god or something doing it for some weird reason who knows um in actual fact we have the evidence the fact that nathan has a personal incredulity about the evidence we have does not actually mean it is not true it's just his personal incredulity that's all you're saying stars moving is proof the earth orbits the sun uh excuse me mark correlation is not causation the stars could just be moving i'm sorry you're not fucking you got too thick of a skull to figure that out you got to take your headphones off maybe you can't hear me but correlation is not causation it could just be the stars moving so well done to the person who's super chatted mark has zero proof the earth orbits the sun good job good job yes bravo yeah so if you're done with your tantrum um the the it's the shift of those stars and parallax over the course of six months oh how very nice of you what what a guy um because there's a large difference to the nearest star the parallax shifted too small to be seen to the nearest stars there is a shift that can be seen and we know this is the case and there's other evidence it's just that Nathan wanted me to find one piece of evidence and that's it there's other things we correlate with but Nathan wants to say hey i don't believe it and that's not an argument that is an argument from incredulity based upon a man who has no education in the field i never said i don't believe the stars move mark i never said i could just talk they could easily know Nathan this isn't your time this isn't your time well please your tantrum is really really i mean it's just sad we're good at lying you're lying and that's just that you're gonna have the final word and then i think the final question is going to be for Nathan it may be a back and forth we'll find out but it is the final question and is for Nathan but mark the floor is still yours for your final response yeah thank you yeah and it is that parallax um um movement over six months they go one way and then the other way that we can tell the movement and we can also tell the distance to the stars so i mean nowhere they're going forward and back and when you take that as a three-dimensional representation we're moving closer to this one away from this one then we're moving closer to this one away from this sure we can tell the the trajectory that we're on of course we can now Nathan wants to say hey they just could be moving so what would cause stars to move in the exact way um that that they would seem to be moving around like this maybe i don't know i don't know what's in you know Nathan's weird fever dream mind but um i've i've got no idea and and so his argument is essentially well i don't believe it and so neither should you he's got no absolutely no scientific evidence he's got no evidence at all suggest this isn't the case just a argument from impregnality and can just be dismissed very i never denied stars move mark you're lying to the whole audience yeah so so again i'll make the last word oh yeah yeah i think you might need to mute Nathan because he's got no self control whatsoever he's yeah thank you um so it's not that it's not just that they move it is the pattern that they move in and what we can infer from that and so sort of saying hey they move in a certain way therefore they're just moving that way it doesn't correlate with the rest of the evidence that we have um there's no reason to believe that it's just personal impregnality and that is all and on well on that actually i'm gonna stop Nathan if you keep talking i'll have another last word mate haven't you learned yet i enjoy to quote a fluffer haven't you learned yet i am enjoying the enthusiasm for both of our interlocketers and a final five dollar super chat from two prior okay i have to stop last question Nathan please oh please tell us what college to go to to research flat earth or was your research youtube i do all my own stunts so i actually didn't want to be that guy pointing people to youtube videos that's why i started a youtube channel which eventually got erased prior to the pandemic so it wasn't me spouting medical misinformation like globe heads who eat too much meat over here will tell you they got bacon come out their neck but just so you know guys you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that the earth should curve in all directions if it's a ball like nasa claims and you can test it it doesn't curve in all directions so don't trust nasa at all and i think that concludes the debate in fact i am sending love indeed to all of our mods subscribers and viewers because i want to thank you all for joining us here on modern day debate we are a neutral non-partisan platform welcoming everybody from all walks of life if you're looking for even more fantastic debates we are now all over the internet including your favorite podcasting platform so if you enjoy the show then please don't forget to like follow and subscribe as well as that bell icon set to all from premieres and reminders to join live streams it helps us to reach an even wider audience including tonight's debate on is nasa trustworthy with our debaters mark reid and nathan thompson here to help us find the answer plus if you like what any of our guests have had to say tonight all of the links are in the description below finally if you're looking for even more fun feel free to check out our mdd discord also link in the description below and with that i am amy newvin with modern day debate we hope you continue having great conversations discussions and debates good night y'all happy sabbath to my fellow believers amy you did a great job moderating thank you sending love to you and the whole interwebs