 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mind Pump, we continue on our streak of discussing things that are controversial. Yeah, let's just piss everybody off. We actually talked about God and the universe and consciousness and cool stuff with the brain. And that's in the beginning, about 28 minutes of our initial bullshitting before we get to the questions. And the questions were, is there a study demonstrating growth hormone release during sauna sessions? There is. Does it affect growth hormone in positive ways? And is a sauna something that can help you get you to your goal faster? You have to listen to find out. We talk about how someone has really tight traps. Should they exercise them? In other words, if you have a tight muscle, is it smart to exercise them? Or should you not work them out for fear of making them tighter? Again, you want the answer? Listen to the episode. We talk about our opinion on the most important things in starting a business. We have a little bit of a debate over it, in fact. As usual, I am correct. Then we talk about why I'll debate that. You'll have to listen to really find out. Then we find, then we talk about why someone may be attracting all the creepy guys in the gym. Is it her fault? Is she doing something? According to Adam, it is, yeah. Or is it the fact that most guys are creepy? Who knows? But you'll have to find out in this episode of Mind Pump. Also, don't forget this month, we have our summer starter pack. It includes maps and a balik, our foundational workout program. It also includes maps prime, which has a self-assessment tool. It actually helps you correct muscle imbalances and teaches you how to prime your workouts. We also included a nutritional component. We have a nutrition guide, fasting guide combo. And lastly, we threw in access to our private forum so that you can get the support that you need along your fitness journey. We took all of these things, we packaged them together in our starter pack and we discounted them by over 50% off. And it's this month only. Check it out, mindpumpmedia.com. I think we should change the name of our show. What are we gonna name it now? Instead of Mind Pump, Mind Blown. We will blow your lower mind. Huh? What's the lower mind? It's the like, it's where you think. The other. Where you really think? Yeah, exactly. You wanna know what I, this is, so there's a few times in my life. There's a few times in my life. Oh, dude, I miss you so much. Couple of bullies. There's a couple times in my life where somebody will make a big deal about something with me and then, as if the universe was on my side. Which it usually is. Just present to them an opportunity for me to demonstrate to them that they were idiots. And that. Two believers. Has really happened. Empowers your stance. That has happened recently. Yeah. Okay, so when we started Mind Pump back, it's been almost about two and a half years, right? It was a little, it was like for a little while there, you guys were making fun of my headphones. Talking shit about my. Oh, God. About my, cheaper headphones. Oh, I'm gonna come in and school. Talking about my cheaper headphones. Here we go. Well, here we are two and a half years later. You're still gonna get dark. These guys have spent a million dollars, at least on headphones. I know. Because they keep fucking breaking and I told them when they first bought them, like you spent way too much money on a pair of fucking headphones. Who cares? They're like, no, it's fucking good. They're quality to last forever. Broken, broken. Well, mine still works. Here's where they get you. Let me tell you where Bose, or where Beats gets you, okay? And. Because I'm looking at your headphones now. Taylor has taken pictures of us and I'm happy with those. I don't know. Are you happy with the duct tape up and down your head right now? No, listen, listen. No, let me finish what I'm explaining here. Because I've, there's been times where I've used your headphones and I've used Doug's other really nice headphones and once you've heard the sound quality in Beats is fucking good. There's a good tone in there. It's fucking very good. It's sound, it's, and there's not, and a lot of, I know people love to debate this. Like in, I remember, how much does a new pair of Beats cost? They're like 400 bucks. Fuck me. See, my headphones, 100 bucks. Yeah. So, but they sound like they're 100 bucks. Yeah. They make like they're 100 bucks. I hear you guys just fine. Yeah, you hear fine, and that's okay though. So here's the thing. And I know that, and I'm totally, this is why my girl calls me bougie because it's like, I'll naturally gravitate to things that are more expensive, but most of the time more expensive things are made nicer. That's true. And it's not to say that the Beats aren't overpriced. I'm not saying that they're not. Of course, you know, but when you put a really good fucking product together, you can get away with charging murder for it because it is fucking really good. Murder. You can. However, they break all the time. It's a really good product. It looks awesome, but the materials they use are dog shit. Yeah. Well, yeah. It's just all plastic components. Maybe this is what's happening. Beats should send me some free ones because I'm on my fourth pair. Exactly. Fuck me. I'm on my fourth pair. Maybe this is what's happening. Maybe it's the way you guys are either sponsored us because we need to keep this going. Because it happened with both of you guys. And I'm wondering if you guys, the technique you use to put the headphones on maybe wrong or your heads are massive. There's a tech or something. You might be right. Is there a technique? Because I didn't get the memo. I'm wondering if you guys just like, ah, you know what I mean? Like, he was aggressive. He was. Ugh. Slamming on my head. Might be too aggressive. I don't know. I mean, I know when you wear a hat, Justin, you have it on the last buckle. That's true. Because you have- I'm popping seams. You have a wide- Well, I've got a cranium. You know, it's like that cranium that's like an in-between size too. So I'm like, either I go big and look like dopey or I go small and I fucking compress my whole head. I don't have a big- See, my skull is actually not massive. It's more like- You're very linear. It's like computer chips. As they get more advanced, they get smaller. It's like your whole head is a beak. I'm sorry. I have to think- It's a big beak. You guys literally make fun of me for a year about it. That's crazy. I think I have a small head. You're very pointy. You're very pointy in the way you talk. You know, like junior ball caps like fit my head better than like adult ball caps. I bet my head's smaller than yours. It might be. I don't know if I wanna- You think so? Because sometimes- I don't know if I wanna fight you in this argument. You're kind of long though. You know what I mean? Like you might have to have a bigger size because yeah, you're- At the length is big. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like you might have to jump up the size of us. You know what's funny? You would think I was fast at running or swimming because of the shape of my head. You know what I mean? Like you would- You would think that that would make me fast. To spearheading your way through everything. But in fact, it just goes to show you it's big rocks, right? That's like a wing on a civic. That really doesn't make a difference because I don't propel myself quickly. I see it. You know what I'm saying? Dude, did you guys see the deep discussion I had on the forum yesterday? No, you were about to say something about it. So finish what you were starting to say. So I love our forum because sometimes when I have time, I can get- I always make time. It's a priority to make time to get on there and answer questions and talk to people. But sometimes when I have extra time, I get on there and I can have these like really deep interesting discussions with people and we have some really smart people on the forum. Like- Can you gravitate to the extra controversial ones that I've noticed? So this wasn't really controversial. Actually it could be controversial. But no, there was this study that came out that was just published, I think yesterday, and that scientists, and by the way, if you're in the science world, especially in neurobiology or even in human consciousness, like this was fucking insane. Like this is one of those groundbreaking studies with the knowledge. Because the problem with the brain is that we don't, we have zero idea of how it works. Yeah, because all they really show is like the areas lighting up. It's like we have these, it's like generally, oh, we just, it's kind of, we think it's- This is a firing sequence. But we literally have no idea. Like we think of computing like the way a computer works, but the brain doesn't, it doesn't work that way, which is why there's still a debate as to whether or not we'll even create artificial intelligence as quickly as we think we will because we don't know what that means necessarily and maybe it has to do with how the brain works. So anyway, we've had, we have no idea. Well, it gets even fucking weirder because this was just published. Multi-dimensional universe was detected in brain networks. In other words, they use a sophisticated type of mathematics in a way. Yeah, this is interesting. With neuroscience, and they uncovered a universe of multi-dimensional geometrical structures and spaces within the networks of the brain. So in other words, theoretically, the brain could be operating in like 11 different dimensions and creating these structures and connecting these structures as you're producing thought. This is like- Of course it's not debate because I would laugh at this. Well, hold on a second. Theoretically, how do you get that? What do you mean? It doesn't even make sense. What doesn't make sense? It's already an area that we're uncertain about. So then to talk about some, that we go into something and found that it may mean the brain is functioning in multi-dimensions, like how are you able to measure that when you're- So- It makes no sense to me. So I'm not a scientist, but I have had people who I respect try to explain it to me because I've asked them that question because there's lots of theories about like, forget about the brain, like that there's this multiverse and that there's more than just the dimensions that we live in and it's not really that disputed. Like scientists will say, oh, there's for sure dimensions that exist that we don't perceive like the dimension of time and the way we perceive it may be wrong and there's other dimensions that we don't even perceive that are out there and some scientists have said there's as many as like more than a dozen or 70 or something like that. So, and it's all figured through math. So the universe up until now can be explained through mathematical calculations and it's been extremely effective up until now. Like we've been able to mathematically calculate what the kind of power and energy that's stored within an atom before we ever split the atom and create a nuclear energy or the nuclear bomb, for example. We, our mathematics help us create things like MRI machines which work, believe it or not in a quantum level, things that we can't really observe or see, but we know because of math. And so with this math, they've basically figured out that the brain works in all these other dimensions and that's multidimensional. And they tried to illustrate it. They had a computer try to illustrate it, but we can't perceive it. Well, how could that, could it be getting mixed up with memories? And- No, that's the thing is that that's the point the point of this study and it was like, it was published like all over the place and all the science journals like, this is a big deal. And what they're saying is that, because before this, scientists have observed quantum phenomena within the brain as well. And if you don't know about quantum physics, things on the quantum level operate in such a strange way to where- Like they exist as you perceive it and then it doesn't exist. Particles are in, will appear and disappear at the same time or will be in two different places at one time, just weird shit. And they've observed some type of this, some of this phenomena in the brain. And now they're showing that the brain works in ways that are far more complex that we could have ever imagined, which opens up such incredible possibilities in terms of how consciousness is coming about or how the brain thinks and processes things. It's really fucking fascinating. So I think you're traveling while you're taking some kind of psychedelics when in fact you're just experiencing other parts of the brain. Who knows? That's been a theory for a long time. Like who knows, right? But it's just really fucking cool to discover stuff like this because it brings us a little closer to understanding the brain. So anyway, I posted this on the forum and someone said, I think this is, in a nutshell they said basically this is evidence of intelligent design. So then it was like a little discussion about whether or not our evolution is what created us. And it was the, it was chance, right? The random chance that self-replicating DNA- I thought we already proved that the probability of random chance is so crazy. I mean, this was like- That's a theory. That's one theory, right? That one theory is that it's the equivalent to like having a tornado go through a junk yard and assembling an airplane. But on the other side of it, with enough time and with enough opportunity, at some point all possible random, combinations of things are possible. And so this is just, this is just like a little debate. We went back and forth and had a nice discussion about, and I'm always torn on this. So it was a really cool discussion. It got really, really deep. And, but anyway, really, really cool article. And if you're kind of into science, you've probably already seen it, but if not, you can just Google this. When was it released? Yesterday, it just came out yesterday, I think. And I'm looking at the Science Daily article and the title of it was Multidimensional Universe in Brain Networks, Science News, and you can read all about it. Really fucking cool shit. Neuretical math. So was the, how did the discussion go in the forum though? You said it turned into a long thread. Yeah, so. Did it do a debate over it? Well, so I'm always torn over this, right? Well, someone just saying like, I am like, come on, that's just a second. Well, so I'm torn because on one hand, I think that there is intelligent design. Now, my interpretation of intelligent design is not the same as someone who's, you know, either Christian or Jewish or whatever, they may believe in a God. Whereas I think something designed this and it could be other artificial intelligent and we could be our own artificial intelligence, you know? When I look at the odds and probability of life in the universe, and when you consider the age of the universe and the size of the universe, it's incomprehensible how big it is and how old it is, right? So at some point, somewhere in the universe, it's highly probable that art, that life, intelligent life existed somewhere. And the desire of intelligent life seems to be, based on our own example, to create its own intelligent life. Like we're doing now, like we're working with computers and we're driving hard to create artificial intelligence that is self-aware. And it's totally plausible that we would- That's already happened. Well, it's too many, maybe. Yeah, it's totally possible that that's already happened. The odds are that that's already happened and that, now take it a step further, would that intelligent life, if it was within a program where it was unaware that it was in a program, first of all, it would consider itself real life, it would then evolve and grow because it's intelligent. And then its goal would be to make artificial intelligence. So not only is the probability that it might've happened in the universe, but if that did happen, we could be so many layers deep into- Always a driving factor to create. Right, and so I'm like, I think something might've designed us and I don't know what that is, but that always goes back to, well, what started the first thing and then the discussion is, well, was there a first? Was there a beginning? Well, it just got real fucking good, man. It reminds me of that Perry Marshall like conversation we had, yeah. I have found it personally, so I haven't shared this on the podcast and I don't know how much I even like sharing it right now, but I think since we're on this topic, I will, is I've personally liked this. I was somebody who grew up very religious, right? So I grew up and I've shared this in the podcast before, I think I've been a belong to nine different denominations at one point in my life. So I've seen a lot like on the religious side. You're like the mixed martial artist of religion. Kind of, yeah, for sure. So, which gives me a really good bullshit detector too. So I grew up a lot around that. It was Baptist built. And I remember growing up through as a young kid that I would also too, you would meet these really intelligent like PhDs and stuff. And a lot of the times, most of the time, they were very agnostic or atheist, and very rarely did you ever meet one that was Christian or a believer or believed in a higher power or whatever the case may be. And since we've had the opportunity to interview a lot of really, really intelligent minds and PhDs and authors and really, really respectable people, this is one of the questions I always kind of asked them off air or talked to them. I'm always intrigued on their thoughts. And it's been very, very surprising to me to see how many PhDs I see that admitted that they were agnostic or atheist before and now a believer in something bigger and greater because the more of that science keeps coming out where it's starting to look like it's too perfect, it's too immaculate for it to just have randomly. It could be and that's part of the argument, but I think. And I don't like talking about this stuff. That's why I avoid it on the podcast because I know there's always somebody who's gonna get can't, they're not ready to even discuss stuff like this because it definitely should be talked about. That's for sure. I agree, but it's the third rail, right? I mean, we're getting in the third rail there because then if I speculate anything like that, then you're always gonna have your people that are bigots about things. But I mean, I love, and this is a shit that I love to talk about off air when I get a chance to meet brilliant minds that have done way more research in these areas than I have, it's fascinating to me to see how many of them have flip flopped in the last 10 to 20 years. Why can't we work through ideas and thoughts? Why do they have to stay rigid and you feel like you have that understanding? I don't understand that at all. I wanna know more. If there's a valid point to it, let's keep diving deeper into that thought process and explore it. And I had the same kind of background as Adam. And so it's like, for me, it's not just like, yeah, that's it and that's the end of the story. Like no, dude, I love understanding how things work and interact and like the more things we unravel, the more questions come up. So let's talk about it. Well, I mean, look, for me, it's not, it turns into it, it ends up turning into like a religion versus type discussion. For me, it's not like, I don't see it as a religion versus not religion at all because to be honest with you, if somebody is really religious and really believes in someone's Christian and they're really Christian, they really believe in it and they're nice people, of course, and all that stuff, my interpretation of what they're saying may be, for me personally, we're kinda saying similar stuff is just you're using different words, like I may think something intelligent created us, you may refer to it as God, I may refer to it as, in my language, is just what I just talked about earlier, right? So, and it really- Who's to say you're not both right? And at the same time- That's how I feel. And not only that, but it's a journey. Spirituality is 100% a journey. I'll give you guys an example. My kids go to Catholic schools. So people hear me and they think sometimes I'm atheist or I'm anti-religion, which is not true. My kids actually go to Catholic school and this is partly because their mother is Catholic and their grandparents are and I like the school and it's really, really good education and the parents are all awesome there. And I know what I believe, right? But I'm not gonna impose my rigid beliefs or my understanding on my kids because I feel like they have to get there, they have to get there themselves. I believe they should be exposed and what I'm gonna raise them to understand through example is to be nice to people, treat people the way you wanna be treated. It's all the fabric of that. Yeah, and I'm also open, like if they wanna go to church, that's great. If they wanna question church, that's fine too. I've actually had this discussion with my son. My son is very much like me. He thinks a lot like I do and he's asked me, he asked me when he was five years old, no joke. Five years old, he sat down with me and my kids always had these really deep like too old for his age type of conversations with me which kind of freaks me out. But we were sitting there and he's like, he goes, he goes, is Jesus a myth? Where's my five-year-old? Where's my five-year-old? So I'm like, oh fuck, how the hell do I answer that? That kind of question. That's a loaded question. So I said, well. Son, I'm not ready to answer that yet. So I said to him, I said, well, do you know what is a myth? And he goes, it's like a made up story. And I said, yeah, okay. So you're asking me if Jesus is a made up story. And he says, yeah, is it made up? And I said, well, what do you think? And he's looking around and he's kind of thinking. And I said, this is something that only you can answer. Nobody can answer for you. So I may have my own opinion, but it's not gonna matter. What matters is what's your opinion on it. And we had this really good for a five-year-old. They had a great conversation about it. Yes, pretty deep. And here's the bottom line. I know too many people who are religious and hammer their kids with it. And when kids rebelled, they ended up rebelling against their parents anyway. And I also seen the flip. I actually have some friends who are hardcore atheists, like nice people, hardcore atheists, which is also fine. And their kids, both their kids, like totally rebelled against their parents and are like super religious. And the parents are all like stressed out about it. And I'm like, you know, like just let your kid, I mean, that's my belief at least. But anyway, it was a good discussion because it's, for me, I love going back and forth. I love taking one side and trying to understand it. And then I love going to the other side and trying to understand it. And hopefully at the end of the day, you know, I'll solidify kind of what I believe. But, you know, there are things I know for sure. Like I know we should treat people nicely. I know we shouldn't steal from people, but I think it's important stuff, right? Right, there's some good things. I think for the most part, people are just like exploring like their purpose. And like we're all trying to kind of collectively get ideas and figure out like why we're even here. And like it's such a deep thing to think about that like I don't feel like any, like people don't think about enough. You know, like, like why are you even like alive? Like why are we even here? So it's a hard thing because you could dismiss it and we could just live like every day. Like it's just like this protocol. People think sitting there and thinking that is a waste of time, but it's not like the ancient philosophers of Greece. That's what they did. Yeah. And they came up with the concept of the atom way back then before, I mean, you know, before we had microscopes, before they came up with the concept of germs because they were sitting around and thinking about these things. Here's one of my favorite, favorite, favorite theories. And it resonates with me for some reason. I think it's really cool. And I talked about this on the forum. And when we're talking about the brain in particular, the current model of belief is that the brain houses the consciousness and basically is what creates who you are, right? Creates all these different things. But then there's this alternate theory, which is really, really cool, which kind of resonates with me. And that is that the brain is a highly sophisticated receiver of information, receiver and processor of information. Now, on a literal basis, on literal terms, Like it's a radio, like receiving signals? Yeah, well, for literal terms, that is it what it is. Like we are perceiving things. We're touching things. We're seeing things, whatever. And the brain is getting all this information and processing it and telling us what we see and what we feel and awesome. So that is literally true. But to take it a step further, what if the brain was receiving your consciousness? And it's just processing it. And when you die, it's like smashing a radio. Like the radio's broken. You'll no longer hear that song. But that song is still being, it's still out there. It's still being broadcast out in the universe. And so that's something that I, you know, that's a theory that I heard a while ago that really tripped me out and it feels right, which means nothing to the brain. We're listening right now. Dude, my balls. I pissed people off, dude, because I could be such a like a logical dick. And then I can sound so like spiritual. Man, that keeps them guessing. Well, I think that's important though. I think this is what, I think whenever you become, you can be dogmatic about science too. Yeah, totally. And I think that you're an idiot if you think otherwise. I'm sorry. It's like, people get so hell bent. And again, their boxes, their beliefs and they come so attached to it that, I mean, God, that's not where, I could be completely wrong with my thoughts and my theories on things too. Doesn't mean I don't wanna discuss it and hear somebody else's thoughts. It could be totally opposing mine. It makes me, in fact, I like hearing stuff. You know, it's really funny, like you guys bring this up, like so like Sal, you always talk about like, you know, checking out what other people think that you think are stupid, you know? So I went down that rabbit hole and I watched the whole YouTube series about like the flat earth theory and all that. I like had to, you know, because I've been like trying to rationalize this in my brain and I'm like, why the fuck would people believe this? You know, and like I was going through and it's like, you know, they do the whole like absolutes, you know, like this is what happened and this is, you know, why they dismissed this idea and NASA is providing all like photoshopped images and like, really, like NASA's gonna take all that time to like construct all these videos, all these things, like I was just getting more and more infuriated as I was watching it, but now you know it. Yeah, but now I know it and now I know like, they literally think like we're the center of the universe. Like everything else is spinning around us. I was like, are you fucking kidding me, I love this. Yeah, who's crazy? You have to do it. The one thing that people have an issue with when it comes to science, this is where I think the dogma comes from is when they use current knowledge of science and they believe like wholeheartedly, like that's it right there and there's nothing else, rather than saying, which is really, to be honest with you, real science is never that. Real science is the evidence demonstrates this. We don't know this other stuff and we're gonna continue to try and prove ourselves wrong. We're gonna continue to test what we think is right. That's real science, but when people get dogmatic, it becomes this like, you know, there's no way these, like by the way, this was science. These are totally safe. Take these products, they'll never bother you. You'll be absolutely fine. It's approved, the science has settled and then, you know, 20 years later, we're like, oh, we have a microbiome that is super connected to our entire bodies and if we fuck with it, it'll probably mess with our health and the way we think. And the only reason why we're, you know, the dogma is what prevented that because what they could have said was, so far what we've tested, this is what we see, but we don't know what we don't know and let's give it some more time or, you know, rather than saying, nope, perfectly safe, here you go. And that's where some of the dogma comes from and I think that's the problem that you'll see with people who claim to be super scientific because the funny thing is when you talk to actual scientists and actual people who do research, they're not super dogmatic. Everyone I've ever talked to, like when we had Dom Diogostino on and he's talking about his research. Yeah, but I feel like that's now. I feel like that's different. I think 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I don't know if you remember. Maybe not so much. Yeah, I don't know if you remember talking to brains like that back then, but you know, I had clients that were tied into NASA and that world. Yeah, and they never talked like that. So that's what I found very fascinating was a lot of the conversations I've had with some of these guys now, like these Perry Marshalls, the Dom's, the System, people like that, like I'm fascinated to hear them talk about how they were agnostic or atheist before and then now they believe there's something, something other. But, and I love to hear how they explain it because it's not like, in this sense. I was, I was atheist for a second there for sure. Hardcore, hardcore atheist for a second. And then I got into, I just, for fun, I started learning more about quantum physics. And then I remember thinking how some of that sounded a lot like spirituality. Like you're saying everything's doing, you know, connected like this. In another realm. And then you're, but that sounds a lot like this. I was like, whoa, there's a lot of parallels there. It didn't make me super spiritual, but it made me agnostic. It made me get away from atheism and say, well, I don't know for sure. And all this stuff is kind of cool. So I would prefer to just be agnostic and that might keep my mind a little more open to looking at different things. And I'm still kind of there. I just think, I just think it's fucking rad when science, you know, and the reason why I like it when science shows this stuff more than when a mystic or a monk or whatever it comes and tells me is because I under science has like measurables and it's more objective. And I can just, I can be, I can connect to it a little bit more. You know what I mean? I can say, oh shit, you guys did the math and figured this out. Oh, you took a picture of this MRI and it shows this. Like to me, that's more resonating than someone saying, you know, this is what we've believed for so long. This is what we feel. There may be truth in that also, but I have a tough time sometimes connecting to that. You know what I'm saying? Right, no, I agree. Yeah, very cool. Bring on the logical bird. She's a quass. He ain't gonna let us laugh at it. Chimera quass. Today's quass being brought to you by Chimera coffee. It's the only coffee that is infused with all natural nutropics for a cleaner, calmer and more focused buzz without the crash. Click the Chimera link at mindpumpmedia.com and input the discount code, Mindpump a check out for 10% off. It's the motherfucking quass. The eagle has landed. Quick quass. Our first question is from Elizabeth Marie Fit. I heard about a study recently showing growth hormone releasing during sauna sessions. Any truth to this? So these, so temperature contrast training, or I forgot how Rhonda Patrick calls it. I think that's what she calls it, is becoming a big thing. Yeah, she always talks about heat shock and cold shock proteins or whatever, right? Yeah, it's interesting. Well, Wim Hof, dude, I mean, everything he's done is based off of that, right? I mean, that's his... It's a big thing. Now, what I find fascinating about it, because I remember as trainers years ago, people would always ask me about the sauna in the steam room. They would always ask me like, does it help me burn fat? Will it help me build muscle? Is it good for me? And I remember my answer was always like, well, if it feels good, do it, but it doesn't help you lose weight, it just makes you sweat. I'm glad you're going this direction right now. I feel like this is something that we should have talked about a long time ago and how we never talked about this before. The sauna is such a, it's another one of those things in fitness that we sold it the wrong way for so long. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you were to go back and think of like, talking about it in the past, the way you sold it on people and why they should do it, we kind of did a bad job of that. We did. And I remember saying like, no, it doesn't help burn. It just makes you sweat water out. If you feel good doing it, doing it. Like there's no real benefit to it other than it feels good. And that was what we were taught and that's what I thought. And that's what Western science would have shown. Now, now we have science actually showing incredible benefits from temperature contrast type training. We're showing that it actually amplifies the adaptation that you get to exercise. So there's actually some studies that have compared people who use a sauna versus those who don't who do the same workout. And the people that use the sauna like can train till exhaustion like X amount percent longer. I forgot what the number was. The number was, I'll see if I can pull it up here. But it was a pretty significant amount. It also, it makes a lot of sense from an adaptation perspective, just being in a more like hot environment. So when you're exposed to that and you're going through your rigorous activity, all of a sudden the temperature, maybe it's really hot outside. Like you're gonna endure a lot better than person that hasn't been exposed. Well, this is the same, isn't this the same system too? You're, it's gonna boost your immune system. So when you do this temperature contrast, and this really hit home for me after I started to dive into Wim Hof. Like, so when we were talking about when we had them into our facility and I first, we first heard them on Joe Rogan. I was like, what is this bullshit? Like this is crazy, right? I thought it was kind of gimmicky at first. And that forced me to kind of dive deeper and deeper. And it just, it makes total sense. I remember, and I know this is all anecdotal right here, but I remember when I started to apply it after I started to read up and I thought, oh, this makes a ton of sense. I tell you what, man, like definitely I have been healthier than I've been in a long time as far as fighting off is like the common colds. And even if I do, like, so now like, so when I start to feel a cold coming on, like all, all intentionally train this, I'll start doing hot and cold, the hot, cold thing like that. And try and strengthen me as quick as I can. We'll just tap it into the autonomic system, right? And like really being able to like, like slow down and communicate to your body on that level, I think is such a powerful thing. Well, there's two things to consider. First off, the body's ability, your body actually has an ability to adapt and get better at this. And what I mean by that is, if you go in a sauna for 20 minutes and then you go in a freezing cold shower or dip after or whatever, as you train that consistently, you'll find your tolerance for it to get better and you'll be able to do it longer and longer or colder and hotter and all those different things. Your body actually learns to adapt. Now you have to ask yourself, what is happening to my body that's allowing it to adapt? It's literally getting stronger and anytime your body adapts, so far by the way, this is on all cases, as your body adapts to a stress by getting tougher, if you will, it gets better. Whether it has- It's interesting to think about, like instead of just the muscular, you know, system, like all these other systems are getting stronger by introducing them into these other environments. Absolutely, your body's getting tougher. And we all know somebody too who has made a statement that, you know, if they get sick, sorry. As he coughs. Yeah, right, as like, so as somebody gets, they'll mention or they'll bring up like, oh, anytime the weather like changes drastically, I get sick. And I know, have you heard that? I've heard that multiple times before. Yeah, anecdotally, like I've seen people around me all the time. Lots of people, right, even myself, I was somebody who's like that who I would notice like if it was, you know, we had this summer day, this happens in California a lot too, where we'll have like a nice, beautiful 80 degree day. And then all of a sudden it'll turn around and feel like winter the next day. And that whenever I have that, a lot of the times I would get sick. Interesting. Yeah, that's an interesting thought. I never thought of that, that particular point. But I mean, along those lines, the human body did evolve dealing with temperature contrast. We did not have air conditioning. We didn't have heating. We didn't live in, you know, super insulated. Yeah, this is just a theory of mine. I don't have proof of that. No, no, no, I mean, I do know that I've had a lot of cases though, personally and with clients that have shared that with me, that, and then to me that was like light bulb went off, like that just makes sense. Well, I mean, like I said, like as I'm saying, like our bodies evolve dealing with this and we baby the hell out of our body to where think about it, the temperature doesn't really change for you for the most part at all. Not at all. It's always comfortable, right? Whether you live in cold weather, hot weather, wherever. You run the AC or the heater in your car as soon as you get into it. It's like 72 degrees all the time. And like anything that we do that will we make ourselves super comfortable like we lower our activity level or we sit down a whole lot. Like all of that shit is bad for us. So there's that part of it. Plus there's the part of it that, you know, it's like atrophy to the, to the environment. It does because like I said, look, I do it pretty consistently when I can, I go every day. But then I have, sometimes I have my kids for like a week, right? So I can't go in the morning because I have to drop them off at school and come straight here to work. So I don't have the time to go over there and do the sauna and stuff. And I know, I noticed when I take a week off and I go back, my tolerance is lower. It's like I took a week off of the gym. It's like not working out, going to lift and be like, oh, I'm not strong. Totally. And so I mean, a hundred percent there's adaptations happening. Cultures have been doing this forever. And anytime you find something that's ingrained in a culture there's some kind of benefit to it. That's why they put it in their culture. It wouldn't have been happening for hundreds of years, you know what I'm saying? Oh dude, it's deep in like certain Nordic countries. Very, very deep that they go into sauna and jump in the snow. And they have kids do this shit. And I think in Russia even in some schools little kids will go out in their underwear and they'll do like a snow bath, they call it. And it's just part of their schooling and it's to boost and strengthen their immune system. But the science is now catching up. We can see now that there's certain things that are happening. There was one study, I just found it where they had participants do a 30 minute sauna session twice a week for three weeks after their workouts. And they increased their time it took to run until exhaustion by more than 30%. That's a huge, huge boost. There's also a huge growth hormone release which is the original question. Is there a growth hormone release during sauna? Absolutely, absolutely. When you're in the sauna you actually get a several fold boost in growth hormone and it's significant. Now, does this necessarily mean it's gonna build more muscle and do all that kind? I don't know if it's that, I don't think it's that dramatic, right? You have to be, have high growth hormone all the time. Is it the same response as like after being fasted? Fasting is huge. By the way, I just read a study that showed that fasting for I think three days, pure water fast boosted growth hormone on average by over 1,000%. Like a ridiculous amount, right? Wow. Yes, and the reason why I'm talking about that is that study, they're trying to explain why fasting every other day kept more muscle than just regular calorie restriction. When they do the versus, it maintained more muscle. See, this is interesting. Because we talked about like nutrition time and all that. And I remember that being the contrast of like, what benefits you would get. Either I go fasted like after or I load up for that window, the anabolic window or whatever. And we kind of deduced it down to, well, are you doing really high intensity activity the following day? And if so, you would be more likely to do be a fed and get that kind of a benefit versus like, I'm gonna get the growth hormone benefit by staying fast. It's, I mean, it's kind of speculation at this point, but what we do know is that sauna now have demonstrated, sauna and cold have demonstrated health benefits. They seem to increase adaptations to exercise. So you're gonna get stronger, faster or get better. You know, that also, can you guys think of what that reminds me of too, that I've never thought about this until right now, this moment. Your clients that had jobs, like like carpenters outdoor that had like, like had to get up at five or four o'clock in the morning and work out and like all different weather and stuff like that hardly ever got sick. And if they did get sick, it was not that bad at all. Plus it'd be detrimental to their business. So it's like the mindset of it, you know, going in, like they're pretty hardcore. Like I'm thinking about it right now, like that was a common theme that I would hear from then. And that would be anybody, anybody that would have to work, go outside and work in these environments that were extremely cold, hot, like of these different temperature contrasts. I tell you what I, versus somebody who's in a building all day long, like an office building sitting around. There could be a lot of explanations. Of course. Because it could be that you're in a closed building. It could be that you get more sunlight and the sun is healthy for you. It could be a combination of all the things. I think it is exposed to more sick people. I think it is all those things. I mean, I think that it is, but I think that's why it's such a significant difference between those people and then the people that have jobs that are indoor air condition all day long is there's several factors that would play into that person having a stronger immune system, more vitamin D, yada, yada, yada. Like so, absolutely. I think it's, but it's just, I'm connecting that dot right now as we're talking about this. The environment plays a big factor. Yeah. And how important this, you know, I took this off of Wim Hof. He has this cool little, like how do you start training for this, right? And it was a 30 day protocol where the- Cold shower. Yeah, the cold shower. And you just do 15 seconds the first week. The second week is 30 seconds. Then you go to 45 seconds. Then you go to one minute. I've been trying that on the weekends. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's tough to upkeep it like mentally, but like when I was consistent with that for two weeks, it was pretty sweet. Yeah. When I'm good about it, I'll be the first to admit like, man, when I get up first thing in the morning and I'm like half awake, I haven't had my coffee as it is like, fuck. Yeah. A freezing cold shower is a tough one for me to bite the bullet, but fucking A man, when I feel amazing when I'm consistent about it. I really- It raises testosterone too. But in the short term, do you guys know that? Cold showers. There you go. Yep. Cold showers have been shown to raise testosterone. It's just, it's one, it's another- Weird cause it kills my boner. It's another system of adaptation that our modern lifestyle has made weak. And that's gonna have some health detriment. That's just bottom line- Now that being said, I think there's something to argue that doing this intermittently may be more beneficial than just always being that person who just sits in the sauna after every single workout too. Who knows? You know, that's a good question. I would like to see like them test it. You know, do the benefits of consistency outweigh the benefits of adapting and de-adapting. Right. You know, and regressing accordingly. I don't know, but here's what I'd like to see. I'd like to see the effects of temperature contrast on cancer. Because I have a very strong feeling in that temperature contrast is effective at helping treat cancer. If you, especially if you combine it with things like fasting and or, you know, ketogenic diet type of protocol. I would love to see that. What's your theory on that? Well, again, because of the heat shock proteins, because of the growth hormone release because it's kind of a stress response. It may, and I think there's some evidence that it causes apoptosis in certain cells, which is what you want with cancer. So I'd just like to see, because it seems to me that all these little type of stresses when they've used them on with cancer, like fasting, they've had these positive effects. That's true. Versus if you make yourself super cushy and fed and all the stuff, cancer tends to proliferate. So, but I don't know. Yeah, that'd be an interesting story. I still, I feel like my theory would be that it would still be smart to intermittently come in and out of it. It seems like almost anything and everything that we adapt to, there seems to be a benefit to doing it for a while, taking a break. Even if it's just a short break and then you're back out again, like training, right? Training, even training, you know? Training is measurable. Well, because it's switch. Because your body adapts to it and it's a stress, if you will, you can overdo it for sure. Yeah. I could definitely see how you could exercise, right? You could just do too many sauna sessions and then feel like shit. Yeah, yeah. So I could see people doing that. And so I just caution, like, I think there's a lot of great stuff about what we're learning about this. So I'm getting, I'm gonna try and get a sauna for my house because that's how much. Well, we're on here, man. Yeah, we're on here. Well, I'm gonna have one for my house too because this is how big of a deal this is for me. Because I've noticed that much of a benefit from it. Well, wait till you buy it because if that's the case, and I was in the same boat, like we're all in the same boat of purchasing one. If we can't get someone to. We can get a good company to wrap. Yeah, as a matter of fact, if you have a, there's gotta be somebody on the show that knows somebody. No, we've met a couple. If we have one here in the studio, we will bang green for all kind of content. I mean, we'll film it and stuff and have professionals come and talk about it. So. Yeah, I want one. Give us a free one. We'll talk about it. I like it. Yeah. Quick commercial break, you guys. We keep getting asked all the time, how can I support the Mind Pump family? Here's one of the best ways you guys can. You guys love that Chimeric Coffee that we have Chimeric Coffee with a K. Go to ChimericCoffee.com, put in the discount code Mind Pump for 10% at the checkout. Also, if you guys want to know how I have this luxurious beard and you want one too, go to bigtopbeardcompany.com, put in the discount Mind Pump again, but this time for 33% off. Also, you guys, if you guys have not tried Ben Greenfield's new bars out there, fantastic. If you want some, go to BenGreenfieldfitness.com forward slash nature bite, put in the code Mind Pump and get 10% off. Go check it out. All right, next up is M Del Bocio. M constantly has tight traps and upper back. Should he train these areas or leave them alone? It's actually a girl, Melissa, I think her name. Oh, well. Sorry, Melissa. No problem. Although we're not going to assume. Well, the answer will apply to both. Yeah, exactly. So you have tight traps and tight upper back and so you've probably been told to not work those areas out. I just want to caution right away at diagnosing them some self with tight. Like I'm really understanding what that means and if that's exactly what it is, too. I think a lot of- What do you think they mean by tight? Like when people say- Well, to them, yeah, to them, they probably feel tight, you know? But does that mean it's an overactive muscle? Does that mean it's an over-trained muscle? Does that, you know, are you holding, like you said- Is it responding with every movement? Yeah, so I think- That's what I would, see, that's where my thought process goes. I think that that's what the case is because usually when people come to me and be like, man, my traps are always tight, it's because, not because they work them out too much and they're inflamed or whatever- They're disconnected normally. Either that or it's just- Or they're relying on it. Yeah, like they have poor recruitment patterns. So they're, so let's say, for example, that the muscles that depress the scapula or bring them down and then ones that retract them or bring them back are weak or at least they're not firing the way they should. So what ends up happening is the upper traps take over to stabilize the shoulder girdle when you do all your- Which is extremely common. Very common. Okay, so that's upper, that's part of upper cross syndrome. In upper cross syndrome, I think the percentage is like 65 plus percent people suffer from upper cross syndrome. So there's a very good chance that that is the case, that it has something to do with your, you know, force- There's some shoulder mobility that needs to be addressed that we need to like really get into the priming before you do these movements and see if that's the case. If it's just that it's over responding with every single movement, you know, we need to be able to relax that signal and be able to channel it appropriately. Well, here's an easy indicator right here is this is what maps prime is about. In there is a compass test, right? And this will right away, we'll point this out. So if this is what we're saying, when you do the overhead test, you won't be able to pass the test. You won't have the connection and the right pathway. It'll demonstrate, it'll show that you have this issue. Yeah, you'll know for, and then it will then point you- Which most people fail that part, but yeah. And then it will point you in a direction of movements that you should be doing and that's what you should be doing instead of doing traps. Now here's the thing though, here's what I wanna go with this conversation because I've heard this before and here's the, here's where I think we're gonna talk about something that a lot of people haven't heard before. So I've had people tell me, okay, I know I need to correct imbalances that are causing them to be tight. So like what Adam was saying, you identify, ooh, I have a poor recruitment pattern. That's why this muscle is overactive. So let me correct that imbalance and then those muscles will no longer be overactive. Which is yes, that's correct. But let's take it a step further. I've had people then ask me, well, should I not work those muscles out at all then because they're overactive? And this is why my answer is gonna be different from what you're gonna hear from most people. Most people will tell you don't work that muscle out. Most people will say don't train your traps then because you're just gonna get them tighter. I would say train in the right way. I go in the opposite direction because overactive muscles doesn't mean they're strong. It doesn't mean they're super strong and that you need to make them weaker. There's a mis- There's too much frequency and crossing of signals. That's it, there's a lot of people have the wrong idea and they think if a muscle's tight, I shouldn't train it because then I'm gonna make it tighter because it's gonna be stronger and right now it's super strong. That's not true. What it is doing is it's just firing a little bit. So it's kind of this constant state of like mild tonus all the time. But it doesn't mean it's strong. In fact, many times it's actually weak. It's actually a weak muscle. It's just always in the shortens. Think of it like it's cramped up, right? That's it. Think of it like it's cramped up and if you had like a cramp somewhere like that, you'd wanna work it out. You wouldn't wanna just- You might actually get benefit from doing shrugs. Full range of motion shrugs. Full range of motion letting the shoulders drop and hang so you feel them stretching and then pulling all the way up and squeezing. I wouldn't- I'm like a prime mover. Like it's the focus. And I wouldn't use heavy weight only because you have bad connection. I do wanna point out that here's the type of when we give advice like this right here, I feel like this is what, this is why our profession exists though. Because how you do that I think is really important. I think if you, when I don't want someone like this to take away from this is like, oh, okay. So I should just keep training my traps and then you go grab, you know. They don't realize what their posture is as in biomechanics is doing it. And you go grab away like 135 pounds. You do a bunch of short little reps. Yeah, and you do these shrugs and you just, all you do is cement a poor recruitment pattern already by continuing the bad posture. So the posture is everything, right? How you position the body and how you take that muscle through its fullest range of motion. So here's how I teach this. So this is super common and this is what I've had my clients do. So take light dumbbells. They have to be light because you already have a shitty connection to these muscles. And if you go heavy, you're just gonna, like Adam says, cement this poor signal. So grab some light dumbbells, hold them at your sides like you're gonna do shrugs. You want to stand tall, shoulders back, shrug up as hard as you can, as high as you can and then let the shoulders drop. And then when they drop down, I want you to try and drop them down even more. I want you to try and drive them down as much as possible. So exaggerate the range of motion, pull up and then pull down and pull them down as far as you can and do this real slow. And what that's gonna do is it's gonna actually move the muscle through a full range of motion. You'll get a better connection to it, but then you also have to correct the imbalance that's causing that. Otherwise it's not gonna, it'll help temporarily, it's not gonna be solved. The Logan Doherty. What in your opinion is the most important thing in starting a business? Capital, a business plan, or a good idea? I think that's so easy. You do it? All right, you go first. Cause I'm like torn. Oh, good idea. Good idea first. 100% good idea because you can easily start a business without a business plan. Most of mine I started that way. All of them. Capital. Yeah, I've started multiple successful businesses that I had little to no money to get it going. Does it, but I mean, now that being said, those things become important later on. So I believe the bigger the business that I've built or been a part of, the more implies matters. Yeah, right, the size of a, you're probably not gonna go be able to build a $10 million business without a business plan and without some startup capital. Now you can, but it's less likely. A lemonade stand. But no matter what, like, none of it's possible without a good idea. So you could have all the capital in the world and you could have a fucking great business plan but a shitty idea you're not gonna anywhere. So here's why I'm a little bit torn. Believe it or not, I'm a little bit torn because when we think of, when they say starting a business, like what do you need, capital, business plan, good idea, we instantly think of, or at least I do, I instantly think of successful companies like Apple and Google and those are obviously great brilliant fucking ideas. But the vast majority of businesses that exist in America are not great ideas. They're just like a plumbing business that's successful. But even then they weren't like an Apple, wasn't Apple like forever. Like they were focused on something completely different in the beginning. Well, my point is that most businesses aren't the area involved. I'm gonna challenge that way I'm thinking because let's use your plumber analogy. A plumber deciding to start a business isn't necessarily a good business unless you were made to be an entrepreneur and do that. So it's still a good idea. So even though to us plumbing sounds like that's not a great idea, it's not revolutionary, that's revolutionary and good idea, different things. Some people- You can get in and innovate while you're in it. Some people it is not a good idea for you to do your profession. For example, let's say you follow down the mine pump path but let's say you don't have a lot of the attributes that each of us have, it's probably not a good idea for you. That's just bottom line for you. But maybe you, yeah, you know what I'm saying? So maybe do you mean good idea or do you mean like a passion behind what you're doing? Well, because when I hear a good idea, I think of like you need an idea. What's most important in starting a new business is the mindset. Good idea. It's not even up there. It's not up there, but it should be. That's a good idea. So let me ask you, so okay, so let me ask you this. Let's say somebody has an idea. I'm not gonna say good idea because what I mean by that is they know what they wanna do. They wanna be a plumber, construction guy, whatever, average business, that's their idea. But they have no money to do it and they don't have a business plan. Or let's say they have a business plan but no money. Now let's flip it. Let's say someone has a shit ton of capital and they have a business plan- Let's stop right there. Let's just address that right there. So this is where people, I'll tell you something. So hopefully help this person out. This is where people fail a lot of times. And this is why I say this is such an easy one for me and it's a good idea. It's cause a lot of people have a very hard time being truly objective about themselves. And really don't, everybody thinks they got a good idea. Everybody thinks they can build a business. Everyone thinks this or that. But you know what? How about disconnecting yourself and saying accountability with that idea? Absolutely. And are you truly meant for that? Just cause, and that's why I wanna stop you because you said something and you've said this before and I know we've talked about this before. Passion don't mean shit to me. Like in business, passion don't mean shit to me. Because you know what? If your idea fucking sucks and you have no business doing it, you could be passionate all you want about it. You could be excited about all you want about it. You could want it all you want but you weren't made for it. You ain't gonna be good at it. Well that's what I'm saying. That's the problem with it. The problem is, how do you know it's a good idea? If you think it's a good idea. Everybody who ever started a business thought it was a great idea. Nobody started a business like this is gonna fucking fail. So hold on, hold on. So that's my point. It's the only objective, the only thing that you can look at up there between capital, business plan and good idea. The only two that are objective are business plan and capital. Like you know when you have a lot of money and you know if you have a business plan. A good idea, who the fuck knows that? Everybody thinks they have a good idea. Okay, that's the risk factor. Let me give you an idea. Yeah I think with, okay let me ask you guys. Here's the other thing. With the business idea, they think of it as being more formal, right? So like everybody that's gonna start a business should have some kind of a fucking idea of how this is all gonna play out. You know like how are you gonna monetize? Like when you're gonna do that? Like what are the steps? What are the immediate things that you're gonna accomplish? How are you gonna market it? You know like all these different facets of a business. You should know that shit. Like even if you don't write it down you should know that. So that's like insanely important. Of those three, which one do you think between capital, business plan and good idea? Which one do you think has caused, single-handedly caused more businesses to fail? Like a lack of capital, a lack of a business plan or no good idea? I would say lack of capital. I think that's actually established. They actually shown statistically that that's what kills like the majority of businesses. What's that? Lack of capital. Like they run out of money. Like they run out of money. They didn't plan for it. Yeah. That's part of the plan though, right? Yeah I think in long term. I still think it's good idea. I think if you don't have a good idea to start with and you have no business doing that, it doesn't matter, none of those other things I believe are relevant. I guess the only way for you to know. It could be dependent on long term versus short term success. Okay listen, 80% of businesses fail. Okay, 80% of businesses fail. True. Okay, 80%. Most of that was capital. So you're already working. So anybody out there right now is listening and it's thinking about building a business. You are against odds. Write out the gates. Big time against odds. Yeah if I had to bet on you I would have. Yes, you are against, even if I fucking liked you. I'm betting against you. I am. Just that's the odds. That's why a shark tanker is such assholes. They know that shit. They know you're gonna fail. They know they're not gonna hit a hole. I think a lot of people really fail to really dissect their business and break it all, it's simplified. So, mine pump is an evolution of multiple pivots for me personally. When I started at this, I knew I saw where digital media was going. I saw the importance of social media in building a business. I saw how far behind health and fitness was in this world. I saw the people that were successful, how terrible they were. And I saw a huge opportunity. I had no fucking clue it was gonna lead to an awesome team like this and in a podcast and sitting in a room like this. But I did see that fucking way long ago. To the point where I had multiple attempts at other things that I was doing. And so, of course, I mean, I could have never even drawn this up, but I started with the more simpler things, right? Like, okay, that's the big problem is that all these issues, right? The fitness is behind. The wrong message is getting out there. Social media is moving in this direction. A lot of fitness people don't see that. So, I see that. But I think a lot of people, they right away wanna see, they wanna write the finished plan, the business plan, they wanna, here's my idea. It's like, no, fool. I'll tell you right now, almost every successful business I've ever done is what ended up being way different than the original idea. And the ones that are most successful in business will tell you this. Rarely ever does it like an apple have happened. See, those are rare. Apples, Google, those guys fucking got funding, saw that like- Even them, they even created it. They've been pivoted so many times. Yeah, right? Just because they're intact so many times. You know what I mean, though, is that it's the resiliency of the team and the mindset in being able to completely change directions when you have to. Dude, you're preaching to the choir. Dude, I'm not talking to you guys. I'm talking to the audience right now. I'm talking to our audience right now. I know you guys know this. I'm talking to our fucking audience right now that need to understand this. If you're asking business questions, I'll tell you right now, I've seen too much, too many people suffer from paralysis by analysis, trying to design their logo, figure out the perfect dis, find, get to raise the right amount of capital, and all along while, they got a stupid idea or their idea is gonna get passed in two more months while they're fucking around, trying to get to that idea. So that's why to me- If you're so focused on that business plan, the only thing that's good for is to get money from the bank. And if that's your entire goal, then yeah, there's step one. Have you guys ever written a business plan? Yes. Yeah, and it's terrible. I hate it. It never, ever, ever looks like what it is on paper. It's pure speculation, pure garbage that I fucking threw in the trash. Here's what I'm projecting in three years. It's stupid. I guess the only- It's to make everybody comfortable around you. But I guess the only real way, honestly, to be honest, to know if you have a good idea or not is if it succeeds, because if it didn't, it wasn't bad. I guess you had bad ideas. Like, that's about it. But here's how I look, this is how I look at it, and when I mentor people in this, I tell them that, here's the deal. Gotta think about that idea for like years. 80% people, 80% of the people, you're gonna fail, right? So my thinking is this, I'm trying to get through those ideas as fast as I possibly can so I can get to the 20% that are successful, or if you look at it as 10, I gotta, at 10 times, I'm gonna fail eight times. I'm not gonna fret that much, is this gonna be the one that provides a career for me for the rest of my life? That's such a great number, like your goal in life, if you were playing the odds. Yeah, fail eight times. Yes, if you fail eight times, your odds are really good that you're gonna come up on a success. Absolutely, and I'll tell you right now. Hurry up and get them over with. For exactly good, and I'll tell you what, you go through it, you truly try and start eight businesses, I have, truly try and start eight different businesses, you'll learn a fuck ton. Oh yeah. A fuck ton. And by the time you, and you might get lucky, you might at four, you put it all the other, maybe two, maybe you're the guy who wrote the perfect business plan, a lot of capital. There's no safe way to make money. Maybe you're the guy who wrote the perfect business plan, you got a ton of capital and you hit it out on the first one, but most people are gonna go through a ton of businesses. Can you guys even name something that's a safe play that you make money? Like you just make money. You know, I've thought about investing in like laundromats. Fuck, that's not safe though. I was just gonna say that. Were you really? So laundromats and storage units are fine. I thought about parking lots. Yeah. So that's a great money cow right there. That's what it sounds like, right? When you go into it. But then the management and the people involved. Well, when you break it down, the amount of money that you can actually make off a laundromat, each one is not that much. You have to own a lot of them to make a lot of money. And then it's a lot of work and whatever, because there's a lot of people. Electricity. Figure that shit out, right? Yeah, breaking equipment, all that shit. That's true. And this is why I guess, okay, got a great point right there. And that goes back to my point of the understanding is your idea, good idea. Laundry, there's tons of laundromats that have proven to be successful. And there's guys that make money off of that. And it is a good idea. Problem is already 10,000 people have already came up with that good idea before you. What are you gonna do different if you're hell bent on that good idea? Okay. Maybe you do have a good idea. Close me or close yourself on proving that before you even get to that. You know what I'm saying? That's like, and let's pull this into our current world and what I see a lot of right now on social media is so many people trying to fake it till they make it. They try and pretend like they got this business and put it out there on social media. Like they're fucking a lot of motivational people. Yeah, they're focusing so hard on pretending like they're successful. I'm Tony Robbins. They're not putting the energy and actually being successful. And to me, it's obvious as fuck. I always know who they are. Like they stand out like a sore thumb when you're trying to look more successful than you are. If you spent more time getting through the failures, you'd probably be more successful. Dude, I have a buddy who rents out like Lamborghinis and Ferraris and that's his business, right? So he owns these like super exotic cars. Oh, wow. And he rents them out and people will buy them to drive them for the day. Smart business and probably it's a growing business. It's a smart business. Insurance is the big Instagram. But here's what's funny. You know how many people he gets that rent these cars just to take pictures with them to post and use as like, I'm so successful, this is my Ferrari. Like they rent these fucking cars to do that all the time. Well, think about it. It makes so much sense because we, and that's why too, as much as we picked on shreds at the beginning, I have a lot of respect for them. And by respect, I mean, I respect the business sense for them to see the opportunity in the market. They were one of the first just to really take advantage of it. Like, saw where the social media was going, especially like Instagram. They preyed off of everybody. Saw that nobody was, no supplement company. Knowing that in fitness, we all know that supplements where all the millions of dollars are. Every, if you've been in fitness for longer than five years, you fucking know that. If not, you probably don't belong in business. So you know that that's where the money is at. Sex and supplements. All of a sudden you see Instagram and social media is exploding and on this rise. Nobody's taking advantage of this. Oh my God, this is the new, this is the new marketing and advertising medium. Mixing my pre-workout and my helicopter. Oh, dude. So brilliant. You know what I'm saying? We just cool factor it up like crazy. Pre-workout and porn hub. Hot chicks with fake asses, cool kids with tattoos that are hip and popular right now. Fuck. Smart as fuck. That's a good idea. I don't know, Justin's gonna, Justin said something in porn hub. Yeah. I don't know where he came up with that. Pre-workouts and porn hub. That's stress. That sounds fucked up, dude. Drink this before you jack off. Oh shit. We could totally invent a supplement that people take before they... It's power. Extra stimuli out there. Yeah, it's already out there, I'm sure. Quick commercial break. Hey, people ask us all the time how they can support Mind Pump. Here's what you can do. You can go to www.brain.fm forward slash Mind Pump and get 20% off Brain FM for meditation or focus. You can also go to audibletrial.com forward slash Mind Pump and get a 30 day trial plus one free audio book. Lastly, you can go to www.getnatureblend.com forward slash Mind Pump and you will get a discount on Ben Greenfield's CBD product. All right, our next question is from Ray Ray tone it up. She's asking why all the decent guys she meets at the gym are in a relationship. Yet she attracts plenty of attention from the creepy guys who stare at her when she is doing her glute ham circuits. She wants to know if she's, part of this question was she wants to know if she's doing something to invite the creepy guys to talk to her. Well, so let's let the wizard go first. We'll kind of close you wearing it. No, she said she, no, and in there she says, I don't wear anything revealing, I don't. Yeah, she's basically saying like, I'm not trying to draw attention, yet these creepy dudes are attracted to me and the decent guys are all in a relationship. Well, even though I'm not a fan of the book, I am gonna use like law of attraction here because. I mean, creepy girls attract creepy guys. No, I'm not necessarily saying that she is creepy, but I, without knowing who this person is, I would venture to say she probably, this is probably her MO, she probably attracts a lot of creepy type of guys and the ones that she tends to lean towards or like are, well, there's one common denominator in this, all these scenarios. You're that common denominator, so it's not, you have to extract yourself from the creepy guy and the guys in relationships and start to reflect and ask yourself, what is it that's drawing me to these people and what is it for me allowing these creeps? I mean, that's where you have to go. It's definitely something related to you and nothing related to those outside of you and that's really tough for some people to do. And if you say it's not the way you dress, then maybe it's not, I don't know. And the only person that really knows is you, but I would 100% tell you to reflect here. It could be a few things. It could be where she's working out. I've been to gyms where there's just a bunch of douchebags. Yeah. It could also be, some of you, some of you, some of you. It's an environment. Wait, wait, wait, wait, stop right there. Okay, stop right there. Why, okay, then you have to ask yourself. Why are you working out there? Why are you working out there? Why are you working out there? It's all she can afford. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bullsh, get the fuck out. Maps anywhere. Yeah, I was saying like, you can't, you can't. The creepy guys are bothering you that much. No, what I was gonna say is like creepy guys, the ones that tend to go and talk to girls while they're working out. So that's kind of self-selection bias right there. Like if you take a poll of all the guys that approach women while they're working out, you're gonna find a larger percentage of them that are creepy versus non-creepy and it's not gonna be representative of the population. And then of course you have to ask yourself what makes you say they're creepy? Like because they walk up and approach you, like then you have to, then if you, again, going back in. It made it creepy. It was just they weren't good looking enough. Right, and then, right? No, it was like creepy. Exactly. Like if it was the hot single guy who walked over and said to me, I've never seen, I've never seen that. Would you be okay with a handsome guy? I go, I'm gonna be like, hey, you're a little bit ahead. And they're like, ah, God, you're so creepy. Ew. Actually, the other guy's like, oh. So exactly. He's talking. I mean, there's a lot of, like I said, if there's all these situations are happening to you, guys, creepy guys, guys in relationships, again, there's one common denominator in all of this. I think somebody good looking gives you a compliment. You're good at everything. He's not creepy. Yeah. You're gonna accept it. You know, creepy guy comes up, like first of all, put headphones on. That sometimes helps because it looks like you're unapproachable. So put the big ones over your ears and a baseball cap and don't make eye contact. And I'll tell you why. And this is fucked up and it sounds like, oh, you have to act a certain way. No, I've had to do this going and working out at gyms because especially since starting Mind Pump and I'm a local person, I've been in this area since my whole life. So if I go to these corporate gyms, I get recognized many times about a lot of people. And if I don't feel like I have the energy to give people my attention and I just have time to work out, I'll put my headphones on, I'll look down, I won't make eye contact. And people usually get the message that I'm not to approach me. Also, when these guys, if someone's really bothering you and they're fucking assholes about like, first of all, tell them. Don't be afraid to tell them and then go tell the people working in the gym. Yeah, confront them. Yeah. Like, listen, you're really bothering me. I'm trying to get a workout. That's what I told them. And then make sure you tell people in the gym. Because my wife, like, she'll work out without me at this gym and all this stuff. And so she'll sometimes bring that up. And I'm like, just be like, hey, what are you doing? Like, look at, like, following me. Because there's a guy like following her from like, machine to machine. It can be intimidating. You gotta put yourself, there are some creeps for sure. Well, put yourself in their shoes. Like, imagine this right now. Imagine if you were in, like, a prison jail. Like a prison workout area. And every dude in there was like, way bigger than you and looked mean as fuck. And they're hungry. And one of them, like, they're following you around. Like, you'd be threatened because you know he could fucking hold you down and do whatever he wanted to. So I think for women a lot of times, especially with creepy guys, it's different. Like for me, if a girl comes up and she's creepy, I don't feel threatened, right? I could just tell her fuck off and I don't feel like she can hurt me. But to women, I could see this being a little intimidating, especially in a gym, you know what I'm saying? Well, I mean, 100%. If you're in the area, just rent, mind pump will come work out with you. If that, it will create an entourage. I mean, if that, if it gets to that point where you're like, if I felt like I'm on a prison yard and I'm afraid, like I'm going to a different, like it's time to cancel your membership, you know what I'm saying? Like here's your sign, right? Fucking A, like usually, they're just lifting cement blocks. You don't need to ask a question on mind pump. You need to get the fuck out of there. Like if it's that creepy and it's that scary, but in my experience, okay. In my, in my experience with the most women that have situations like this are, are attracting this. And they are looking, whether they want to believe it or not, or look at themselves. And I'm totally not saying this is you because I didn't even look, I don't even know who this person is. I'm just answering the fucking question. And with my experience, that these, these people, these, these ladies that get this tend to knowledge, tend to be the ones, stop it, you guys. Now it seems like I'm being a dick here. It's gone. These women tend to be seeking attention. And, and they're seeking the wrong. And then you have to ask yourself, why are you seeking the wrong attention? Is there something in your past that has driven you this direction? Or, or stupid dude. Make me lose my train of thought when you do that. So I, I think it's, this is all a self reflection thing for me. And even to the point, even if Sal is right with everything that he's giving cause I can totally respect that side too, you still gotta ask yourself what the fuck you're doing. Like if you don't like that feeling, it really bothers you that much than I would find another gym. And it's like, and I know in your probably the defensive person is going to say, oh, well that's fucked up. So because there's creepy people, I have to just keep leaving gyms or like that. Well, it's like, no, I, I, I think there's a lot of strategies that you can put together like Sal's offering that would really not allow a lot of people to bother you. And so- Have you got, it's obviously you guys have been in upper positions in corporate gyms like I have. And do you guys remember any times like a female member came to you and said, yeah, like, hey, just do it over here. Oh yeah. Has that happened to you guys? Lots of times. That's part of this, part of this. How did you guys handle that? Would you just talk, go talk to the guy? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I would talk, but I would- He just puts her at ease more than anything. Yeah, I also noticed patterns. Like I said, this is what, this is why I feel like I can speak to this is because that's happened to me a lot. I've sat in my office many a times with a female member who's telling me some creepy guy or whatever the case may be. And I gotta go talk to the guy and stuff like that because that's my fucking job and my duty is to make sure she feels comfortable and safe. But it tends to be the same girl who comes in my office to tell me about- Well, there's a pattern there, yeah. You gotta- And more- Gotta recognize. And that's what I'm saying here is that more often than not, there is a pattern here with the same women or the same type of women that are coming up and having this conversation. Now, this person could be a total one-off and she could actually be feeling like she's in a prison and there's these- She keeps attracting the same creepy type guy. Yeah. It could be, she could be the exception to the rule. Now, have you guys ever worked, I've experienced this before, have you ever worked out in a gym and had a woman? Yes. Just fu- Yes. Adam. Yes. I want you to finish what you're saying. Every day. Yeah. Yeah, I was just gonna ask, like has that ever happened to you? Cause I had, this has happened a couple of times with me. And here's the thing, as men, we are one, I don't care if you're gonna deny this as a guy or a fucking liar, we always assume that a girl likes us. It's just our nature. Like if a girl smiles in our direction or she's like, hey- She just looks at you like, oh. Your shoes untied, you're like, oh yeah, she totally likes me. Oh my God, she's so into me. They've actually done studies on this and found that men tend to always think, like in that particular direction. Well we have to, cause we get fucking rejected all the time. That's what they said, they think that the theory is, is that it's better off that we assume they like us than not because we may miss that one opportunity when they do, so anyway. So that being said, I've had a few situations like that, but I don't know if it's like, and is it me that's thinking that or is that really what's happening? But one time it was fucking obvious dude, there were four racks available. I'm warming up in one of them cause I'm gonna do deadlifts or whatever in front of the rack. And this girl is literally, and this was like, after I'd done my warm up, I'd done some- I was gonna make a bad joke for her. Some time, she was following me around, for sure I thought there's girls following me around. She even tried to talk to me for a second, but I was totally like, you know, leave me alone. So now I'm doing my deadlifts and she goes, do you mind if I exercise if I put my bar in front of you? There's fucking four racks, they're all open. So she decides to do stiff legged deadlifts right in front of me, dude. Never has it been that obvious. She's just- And then she's looking, she looked back for a second like, are you looking? You're like, are you fucking? So what I did was I completely, like I completely ignored her, had my chalk, I just did my lifts, I shouldn't even exist. Well I was oblivious at first as one lady, like I was working out and I was doing bench and this lady next to me, like she was on like the free motion and she's like, can you kind of help me with this? And like, you know, trying to like, help me figure out like, you know, how to do the exercise. I'm like, oh, okay, you know, she must know that I'm a trainer, you know, and I work here or whatever, but I was off, off, you know, I didn't have my uniform or anything. I was like, oh, sure, no problem. And so like, you know, I'm trying to help. She's like, where should I feel it in this and that? And then she started moaning as she was doing the exercise. She's like, oh my God, I was like, whoa. I was like, I gotta go back to my set. You know, I was like, I didn't expect that. I had a client that used to moan. Yeah. Yeah, and I was fucking, it was obvious. It was ridiculous. Like the whole gym hurt, I got really embarrassed. I've been training for a long time. I know what a moan that you're lifting heavy weight sounds like. Yeah. And I know what a fake moan sounds like. It sounds, yeah, it sounded like we were on a video. It was dressed up for sure. I, you know, there's so many times this, this has happened so bad. I actually, well, not that many, but enough to where I am actually the opposite of what you said right now is that I assume they don't because there's nothing worse than misreading when you think that. And that's happened enough times that I'm just like, I don't ever want to feel that way again. That feels really shitty. One time you thought we were famous. Well, okay. So I was going to share that story. That's the best story. That's a mind pump story, right? So if you're a mind publisher, you'll enjoy that this happened. I think two years ago, it was about two years ago when we first started really taking off, right? When the mind pump was just starting and we were, you know, I was actually starting to get recognized when I was at places, especially if I was in a fitness place. And we went to Justin, Sal and I and Doug, we all were at the, this was like our first fitness convention that we went to. Which for sure we're like, oh, if anyone's going to know us, it has to be here. It's a fitness convention. Yeah, well, and we did, we ran in and we had just ran into, it was like somebody, a fan ran up, like we'd only been there like two minutes, the fan ran up to us and like we took a picture with them and everything. And I was like, oh, shit, well, okay, this is cool. And, you know, that feeling of holy crap, like we actually have grown to this size where we could be in a place like this and somebody recognize us. So it wasn't, but like five minutes later, we're walking through the, between the booths and there's a booth full of like all these hot chicks, right? All these little booths at these fitness, you know, conventions, they got all these little girls and all the little short, you know, sports bras and cute booty shorts and shit. And there's like five or six of these little hotties and they're all in front and they're like, ah, they're all excited about that. And they, and we're walking towards them and they kind of make eye contact with us and or I felt me probably at that time and you know, they're all excited about that. I thought they were coming to me. And they have their phone out and they're like, can we take a picture? And I was like, yeah, of course, right? And so I think she wants to take a picture with us. He starts walking over like he's gonna put his arm around them in the group. Oh my God, I was dying. I got my phone out and she hands me the phone to take a picture of her. To take her and her friends. Yeah, to take her and her friends. Oh, here. Yeah, it was pretty epic. So it was a super humbling experience. I laughed. That was my favorite. I swear to God, every day I laughed one time about that for at least six months. It was great. Right, just thought about you walking up and you're like, can I take a picture? Because Adam looks at me and Justin like, oh yeah, of course, right? And they're like, no, take a picture of us. They're so intimate. It was so great. Yeah, but I think women are, I think women are worse than men because I think they're more extreme, right? So I think women are either really super subtle to where you're not sure or quiet or very outward. Like I think guys are like all in the, all between, right? Yeah, little more spectrum. A guy is like this, like he's gonna have 10 different tactics. He's like, I'm gonna be aggressive this time. Let's see if that works. I'm gonna say something totally outlandish. And then this time I'm gonna try the friend angle. I'm gonna spill water all over myself. Yeah, dudes have like attention. Yeah, dudes will try everything to get attention, right? I've done that. Where women I find you're either like super conservative and even if you're attracted to me or not, you're not gonna ever lead on to that, especially at a place where I'm working, right? And then you have the other extreme who's just like, I'm gonna say what the fuck I'm thinking. And it's like, whoa, I wasn't ready for that. So I feel like with women, it was always a very big extreme for me. I got my ass fully like groped, like grabbed and not just like pinched, but like meh, like underneath and everything. Is that the one that used to drop bombs in your gym? No, this was a, at least 80 year old woman at the grocery store. Oh wow. At the grocery store. So you had to let it happen. She was reaching for something, just little old lady, at least 80, just adorable. And she's reaching up and she's kind of shaking with her hand because she can't reach up that high. So I said, oh, can I help you? What would you like? And she goes, oh, I want that thing up there. So I reach up to grab it and she like, with her little shaky hand, dig, dig, dig, dig, right up on my butt. Shut up. I swear to God dude. That's so awesome. And I fucking, and I went, I like clenched. You know how you like, my arm came, and I went, oh no, and I turned around, I looked at her and she giggled a little bit. And you know what my response to her was? Nice grab. No, my response to her was like, you're naughty, you're a naughty lady. And she giggled and I walked away. Like I was kind of like, I wasn't offended. Dude, 100% I will be that creepy old guy for sure. 100% I'll be that creepy because you can get away with it when you're that old, bro. When you're that old, they're like, oh, he's senile, bro. How cute, he doesn't know what he's doing, or oh, how cute he thinks that we're close in age. You're like, whatever. You're basically admitting you're gonna be a total fucking creep at it all. Yeah, yeah. Come here, girl. We knew that wouldn't happen. Anyway, good time. Hey, listen. We drop a brand new fitness video every single day on YouTube. We have a channel, Mind Pump TV. It is awesome. It's as awesome as our podcast. It's a great channel. If you're not on it. Don't undersell it. You are missing out. Also, if you'd like to ask us a question that we answer on one of these episodes, the place to do it is on Instagram. Our page is Mind Pump Media. Or you can find our personal pages. Mine is Mind Pump Sal. Adam is Mind Pump Adam. And Justin is Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise program designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee. And you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.