 This is Startup Storefront. Imagine this. It's a beautiful Sunday morning. There's a warm breeze, the birds are chirping in tune, and you feel effortlessly relaxed. Sundays work to capture that feeling of bliss. And no, I'm not talking about the day of the week. I'm referring to Sundays furniture. Sundays is a curated type collection without standing quality and beautiful design. In this episode of the podcast, we talk with Noah and Barbara, two of the co-founders of Sundays. We discuss what it's like sourcing materials all over the world. If sales are higher on Sundays and the steps they took to ultimately recover their hacked Sundays Instagram account. So kick back and relax for this week's episode. All right, welcome to the podcast. On today's show, we're talking to Sundays founders, Noah and Barbara. Thanks for being on the podcast. For people who don't know, what does your company do? So we're a direct-to-consumer furniture brand and we're about thoughtfully designed and curated pieces that make your home feel like a Sunday morning every day of the week. And in terms of like the landscape, so when you first got into this business, were you guys always in design? Were you always in some sort of furniture aisle or some of that subset? And you just wanted to make it easier for consumers to buy? What was the problem you guys were trying to solve? That's a great question. So my husband and I had just moved from the East Coast back to Vancouver, where we're from and we were shopping to get some pieces for our home. And I just found the experience quite overwhelming shopping for furniture. Like at Ikea or like where were you shopping? Just so I can get like a frame of reference of what you guys were looking at. Yeah, so some local shops. Here in Vancouver, we've got West Elm and Creighton Barrel, Restoration Hardware and then some more higher end shops as well. And just found the experience like, there's so much selection and also quite a variety in terms of quality and consistency of quality. So saw an opportunity for a capsule type collection, sort of like what you see with clothing retailers, that idea of a capsule wardrobe. And could that be applied to the furniture space? And so then we got chatting with our good friend, Noah, who has been in the design world for a long time. And maybe you can speak to that, Noah. So yeah, I've kind of worked in the design world for a few probably 15 years and high end furniture where I would have clients come in and you'd have these brands that had hundreds, thousands of fabric options for a variety of different configurations, kind of like the world is your oyster for it, but it was overwhelming for a lot of the clients that I had. So usually they just kind of would go to you for your expertise, what would you choose? What are your six best fabrics? What perform well and what do you have experience with? And I guess that's what you kind of get a designer for, right? So you hire a designer for their professional opinion, what they've dealt with in the past. So for me, it was always, I was always like had the go-to, like these are the ones that I would recommend and because I had experience with them. So when I spoke to Barbara and her husband about what they were feeling, and then we just, and from what I was feeling with, like, it would be just so nice if you could have a collection that you was already curated, that you had already chosen, done a lot of the work for the consumer that you already had tried, tested and true pieces that fabrics, given a good variety for what they need and maybe it'd make the process a little less daunting, a little easier. And that's kind of where we started with it. And we're still kind of, the whole message behind it is we have a curated collection. And that really means that everything kind of talks to each other. So if you go onto our website or into one of our showrooms now that we've opened, you're gonna get a sense of who Sundays is pretty rapid that you're gonna be able to see kind of our aesthetic. And it's an aesthetic that it may not work for everyone and that's okay. Like if you're digging it and you like what you see, you're probably gonna like a lot of the collection if you don't and it's not your style, that's okay. There's lots of other places out there. We're not trying to be something we aren't. So keeping it kind of nice and curated, we also have nice control over the factories that we're dealing with and have good communication with everybody and keep it like that. Let's talk about sourcing. So it just in terms of the company startup, right? So it's like, you have this idea, you see this problem in the marketplace, which I think we've all felt. I think everything in my house is custom or my wife gots from like something at state sale or has some sort of story assigned to it, right? Everything's like a piece versus a, she hates people that she'll go over their house and she's like, oh, this is Creighton Barrel page like 116, this is so awful. Like there's no soul to this kind of thing. And so I totally understand the problem. But taking that problem, then saying, let me go start a company and then find like sourcing, but at scale, what on earth was that like? Like where do you look first? Is it state side? Is it places like Indonesia? You know, where do you go to get some of the best fabrics or even just quality? Yeah, I mean, you're trying to find the right partners because these are partners with you, right? So they have to share the same vision of and the expectation of quality, obviously and the different materials that you want to work with and be able to do the volume that potentially could be there. I think the first step was to, yeah, to really source a factory that's specialized in what that factory was meant to do. So if it's like a solid wood dining table collection, you're not gonna go to an upholstery company, obviously. You're gonna go to the source, you're gonna try to find the best craftsmanship that have also can source the materials you want and do it in a sustainable way. So I think that was kind of the first step and it's kind of like a trial and error. We're like, we're, you know, we're young. We're iterated. And yeah, I've had to tack a few times when you're looking, you know, you're working with a company and they just don't share, you know, the same vision as you or it's just not coming close to what you're looking at. You're just gonna have to figure it out. So again, it is kind of a little bit of a trial and error with it, factories from different parts of the world. Right now, I'm headed to Vietnam at the end of the month to visit some of the factories that are doing some of our solid wood, which I'm really excited about and get to kind of really, because obviously with COVID, we haven't really been able to travel out there recently. So that will be a good step for us. And day by day, just always trying to, you know, do better. With factories being all over the world, how have you guys dealt with obvious supply chain issues? I'm sure you've had your fair share and with all of these materials being sourced from everywhere, I mean, that's probably a unique situation to your business from, you know, fabric sourcing to wood sourcing and then the assembly process. So what has that been like for you guys? I mean, obviously, there's been a lot of issues that you hear all around, not just furniture, obviously, just in terms of factories and the kind of supply chain issues that people are dealing with logistics. And again, that's also kind of like you take it as it comes because we've obviously had supply chain issues in the past, things have improved. You're looking at logistics. I mean, it's a big, none of us have backgrounds necessarily in logistics. So to have a really strong team there has been kind of a key thing for us at some point. And I think in some ways, we were able to hedge our bets a little bit. We have some factories that we work with in Europe and Asia is no a reference. And so as certain countries were closing and opening, like we still had a flow of product we were anticipating to be a company that offered only in stock product. Well, we had to throw that idea out the window. We launched three months before the start of COVID. So pretty quickly we realized unless we do pre-orders, which as Noah mentioned, like that stock position has really improved more recently. And did you guys bootstrap this out of the gate or did you guys raise capital or was it just like really focused on a small subset of maybe one bedroom in the house or a certain products? What was like the initial stages? Yeah, we bootstrapped, there's four co-founders and we started with living room, so very small. Like really it was a couple of coffee tables and sofas. Yeah, it was very small and large. It wasn't much and then we just kind of have slowly, organically grown and built it and gone into different areas, like the dining room and then the bedroom was next and we're still getting there. I mean, it's still opening up. We're on what, three years coming up in the fall. We're young, but we still haven't hit every single category quite yet. Give me a window into the showroom concept. And so is your showroom a super small space where people can touch the fabrics and maybe interact with some of the pieces, but it's not like Bob's discount furniture or this massive warehouse where you can get lost? What is the showroom like today? You're absolutely right. Yeah, it actually, the two showrooms we have currently in Canada, one in Vancouver and one in Toronto started out as small pop-ups. Retail spaces that became available during COVID and so they're under 3,000 square feet. Like they are small. It's where we feature our some of our best sellers and customer favorites. And yeah, you're absolutely right. People want to be able to touch and feel product. We've realized that it's a great way for Noah and his team to be close to the consumer and really listen firsthand to what feedback they're saying. I think you've taken a lot of that into the product development. The first year that we had this pop-up, I mean, it was really to get customer feedback. I really wanted to talk and see what people were thinking out there in the market. And that was really what the sense was. And like Barbara said, yes, we're an e-com brand, straight to consumer, but we found out pretty quickly that it's so important for people to actually see and touch the fabrics and actually sit and things. I mean, to me, that's kind of where the future is going with Sundays. It's gonna be kind of that hybrid model of where we're, of course, we're e-com pushing, but we're gonna have a select stores and curate each store. Just like we curate our collection on the website, you're gonna go into the showroom and it's not just gonna be sofa over sofa, where you can't even focus on one thing because there's so many items in there. We're not jamming the showroom with pieces. We're more just gonna keep it more of a gallery, seems a little... If that's the way forward for Sundays, where else are you looking to open showrooms? Because I know you just expanded into the US market. So are you looking at like, say, New York City, L.A.? What's that looking like? Yeah, so as Noah mentioned, e-com first, but starting to look into key markets. And for us where we've seen, started to see some organic traction in the US, has on the West Coast, L.A. in California, and the New York area. So those are kind of the first two areas we're looking at. We actually had a pop-up event in New York a couple of months ago, which was really awesome. And so we're really looking forward to doing something similar on the West Coast. I think that's everything for brands that are now, as this impending recession is coming, that the whole thing is closing the feedback loop and getting as close as you can to the customer without spending a ton on ads. And I think the whole retail strategy, as much as some people aren't there for it, it's like, it's the instant feedback that's the most critical. Because it's the thing that keeps you moving in the right direction instantly, versus when the orders come in, they've already made their decision for you. And so that doesn't give you any feedback, or then we like it, we like it. And so it's important to just have an ear to the ground. Absolutely. And you know what? It even gives our team members a chance to really like interact with the product. And we do product knowledge and product training with every team member. Doesn't matter what department you're coming in for. And NOAA leads all those trainings. And I think that's really important. I wanted to ask you guys, so right now there's this like huge shift moving in the social media world to like video, right? And so Instagram is becoming TikTok. And for some reason, a lot of designers, design brands, people with furniture like yours, they're just so mad because at the end of the day, their pieces are pieces that look really beautiful in a photo. And Instagram says, we don't care about you anymore. Your photos are worthless. And it forces you guys to like completely shift, right? And so when you think of design, you think of this beautiful restoration hardware magazine, or you know, and that's gone. Instagram is saying, we don't like that. We need you to make videos. And so how has this impacted, you know, and it give me the realities of it. Like I'm sure you hated it at the beginning. And now how has it impacted your business? And what do you guys see as the way forward? I mean, in some ways, like, yes, it does give you a little bit of freedom, it takes away some of that pressure for perfection, right? I think as people in the design space, you want that beautiful, that perfect image. But we found that some of our best performing content is like Noah or other team members talking through a product in the showroom and like it's like on an iPhone in one take. We're certainly getting more into the TikTok and Reels space. And so when I was at the pop-up event, like I'm not a TikTok or a Reels taker, but like I was trying to take as much content as possible, raw content for our team to be able to splice together. So we're learning and it's new for us. It's definitely a departure from like that perfect shot. And, you know, I mean, we need both, right? We need those e-com images and lifestyle images for our website and for our PDP pages. But we recognize that what performs well even on paid ads is some of that more raw content. And are you guys hiring, like who's running it for you guys? Do you have you outsource it to a social media team? Do you have someone in-house that does this? Who's the person that's learning on, you know, it's crazy, like changes every day right now, which is insanity. Yeah, we've got an in-house, an awesome team member and who leads our social side. And you know what, just earlier this week, I kind of had this little epiphany, like is it time to bring someone on board to just do reels and TikTok? And I think that's on a lot of people's minds. So we have impressed that button. The answer is yes. But it's definitely on our mind, yeah. Yeah, no, the answer is definitely yeah. I think this is the one, and the reason I bring it up is because we have this conversation more and more and more. And it's almost like the pendulum has swung and people just need to do it. And I tell everyone it's like, you know, 10 years ago you'd hired a bookkeeper, your accountant, your lawyer, and those are standard issue and that's what you needed to get started. Today it's that plus your social media person. And if you don't have it, it's a rough road ahead. I think it's becoming really clear to us. Yeah, I would strongly suggest it. Yeah. No, no, I would strongly suggest it. And the problem with it too is like, obviously with lawyers, it's like usually they went to law school and so there's a sense of they know something about the law, but you know, maybe they're not the sharpest, but whatever, at least they know the law. The social media landscape is literally the people who don't know anything. And so it becomes very difficult. It's like sourcing a piece of furniture. You have to be meticulous. You have to know what you're looking for and I think is why so many people struggle with it because it's one, it's already an unknown territory. It feels younger. We devalue that for some weird reason in today's society. And then it's like, and then we have to hire them and trust them that they're gonna do well, which is usually, yeah. And I think they have to trust themselves too, right? Cause it's about like testing ideas and seeing what sticks. So you really need someone that has that appetite for like creative and risk and just like trying stuff. And learn every day. Cause like you said, it's changing every single day. I mean, and I even a couple months ago I didn't even know what TikTok was, so. Yeah. You need those people on your team, that's for sure. And that's what we're saying about having a team. I mean, like we have an incredible team, whether it's the marketing or the logistics and all that. Is it still bootstrapped or at some point did you guys have to, I don't know the normal trajectory of a furniture company, which is why I'm asking sort of like, when you go to finance this, is it something like the margins are healthy? And so therefore you can just sustain the business by putting your profits essentially back into it or? We've been growing very, like, I don't want to say very slowly, but perhaps more slowly than someone that had, you know, basically backing exactly, exactly. And it's part of why it's taken us two and a half years to do a push into the US. And we've had a very market by market approach in Canada stuck to our home community in Vancouver and BC and let word of mouth spread. We layered on top of that, you know, digital and some partnerships later on PR. But yeah, it's been pretty responsible, I guess. Yeah, we'll see as we enter into the States. That's right. Like that's like cracking that is tough. It's funny, like in my head, there's so many interesting ways of doing it. One way is like you can partner with a hotel or like a lot of hotels have, you know, retail space inside and you can make a little showroom inside. And if it's a high end hotel, that probably works to your customers, liking a little bit better. Or you know what I mean? It's like, there's synergies there. Like to me, it's so hard because when I think about when my wife and I buy furniture, it's not like an everyday thing. You know, this is not. And so it's like, how do you do it where it gets people back in? Is it the hotel guests? Is it the designers? Is it being in the design district? Like what have you guys seen so far that are like the elements for some form of success when deciding where to be, like where to locate your pop-up or your retail spot? Yeah, I think it like, what comes to mind is certainly the designers, I think is some, that's your repeat customer. So we've got a, you know, a trade team now that focuses on that program and we're really building out that program. And then on the, it's interesting on the showroom side, you know, we're a little bit off the beaten path, like in terms of where we are in a location, not necessarily in the most high traffic part of the city or what you would consider, like this is where all the furniture stores are, but we've found that people will travel for furniture. Yes, true. I'll see us on social media, they'll look and see if we have a showroom in, you know, a nearest city or wherever, and they will actually plan to come visit rather than just, you know, be driving by and go, oh yeah, there's where Sunday says, let's stop in. It's not really that. It's usually a plan. It's a plan. And they usually come in with a lot of knowledge from the feedback that our staff has said, people come in, they already know basically everything they need to know about what they've seen online and they even have maybe a swatches sent to them and they're ready to pull the trigger, but they just wanted to have a little more of an interaction face to face, even if the product that they're about to purchase from us may not even be on the floor, but at least they just wanna have kind of like an actual relationship with the company in some other way other than just shopping online. And that's been kind of a lot of the feedback I've seen. Are you guys just residential or are you maybe moving into or trying to focus on the commercial real estate side also? It's like, I really would like, like when we talk about quality, I mean, of course, like when it goes into the commercial side, it also has to be graded for a lot of that, for restaurants and stuff, it would be, it's always an aim of the product department to get products that are fully commercial graded so that our trade clients that do residential and a lot of trade clients do both residential and restaurants and all that and stuff. So you want them to be able to come shop with us and trust that all that is proper and good for both elements, whether it's commercial or residential. Looks wise, of course, I think like our aesthetic has been more of a residential approach or kind of like a welcome home, Sundays, we founded it on a Sunday. We worked on the company when we had other full-time jobs on Sunday, that's where the name kind of comes from. And it's also that mentality of this kind of like comfortable cozy kind of warm living. So of course we, that starts in the home, but there's no reason why I can't go outside of the home into the commercial sector. I love that. Is there a jingle coming? Like a jingle you guys are working on for the Sunday? I don't want to sing a jingle. I think you're there. I mean, the Sunday theme I was bought in, I was like, oh man, that sounds nice. Makes sense, right? Yeah, it does make sense. We looked at all these names and we worked with a pure company about the names, but in the end we were just like, this is the day we're coming in every day. This is actually the, that's the day that you're at home. And really that's kind of what we want the sense of that. You feel the most at home, yeah. And then we're looking at the some of the initial product we're looking at. We're like, this is all very Sunday-ish. Are your sales the highest on Sunday? Because of this. Do you have you seen this impact the customer? And we do see a bump on the weekends usually. That's when our showroom traffic is often aroused. What's next for you guys? Tell us what you can, what's next? When are you opening in LA? When's all the good stuff coming? Maybe we're gonna have to move to LA to actually find a space that works. We've been working so hard on finding a space. We've got a lead. We're quietly hopeful that later this year we'll be able to pop up. There is a design district in LA. There's basically, there's two of them. So there's one that's like in West Hollywood. And then there's another, there's a street. I'm blanking on the name right now where it's like people go to buy furniture. You know, in terms of what's next, I think, yeah, we're really excited to make a splash in the U.S. I think the initial response has been good. People are resonating, I think, with the look and feel of the brand. And also we've heard feedback on quality in terms of like the price point and that value for the price that you're paying. That was the feedback when we popped up in New York. And so, yeah, hopefully we can just start to take a little bit of market share in the U.S. And before we let you go, what is like the one story you guys remember that was either like the hardest time or just this moment where nothing was going right and maybe the Monday scaries were real or the never? Gosh. What was like the one thing you were like, I can't believe this is happening and it's all happening now. We've had many sleepless nights. One that comes to mind was it was a sleepless week. Our Instagram account got hacked. Oh, mine too. That was stressful. You assume you can just go back in and change it, but if someone has it, like it's not actually that simple and it's not that easy to get a hold of them. And so I started screenshotting like all, our beautiful feed that we like, follower by follower have developed since we started. So that was stressful. And definitely the supply chain stuff, right? We like to under promise and over deliver in terms of our delivery estimates to customers. And so we did have a few occasions where we had to go back. You know, we said this would be delayed and I'm so sorry, but now it's delayed again because of this reason. And those are always tough conversations. We were building out a brewery and I'll tell you, it took about nine months to get garage doors. And at some point, like two of them showed up and we had so many more to get or I mean, it was, it's still kind of going on to be honest, but it's a little better now. You know, across the industry and didn't matter what the industry is, everyone was kind of dealing with the same thing. So that was that made things a little bit easier. You know, people understood for the most part what everyone was going through and kind of working together to obviously find out the solutions. But like indefinite closures and some of our factories, right during COVID, like some of our best sellers were made in these factories and you're like, what's going to happen? Like, yes, you may open in eight weeks or... Yeah, I was scrambling trying to find other, you know, other factories that could maybe produce the same thing at the same quality, at the same price, you know, that I could get. Anyways, it's been working out. You and probably all your competitors. That's right, yeah, exactly, exactly. It's part of the business that makes it kind of fun too. I mean, it's just, you know, you never really know what's around the corner, but you just got to keep pushing. How did you get your Instagram account back? It was like, I mean, Facebook and friends of friends on LinkedIn and I don't know like who eventually sent us the reset. I mean, it came from Instagram and then we were able to fully reset, but it was like no stone went unturned. Like we tried, yeah, we tried everything. So now that you've been through that, do you have double factor authentication on everything? Yes, we do, and we did not prior to this. We did not prior to this. I know it's annoying most people, you know, if you're listening, you're like, oh, that's such an annoying thing, but man, it is so worth it on everything. Great insurance policy and it's free. Exactly, exactly. It was a good, as I said to the team, like this is, you know, a learning moment, yeah. Well, thanks for coming on the podcast, guys. I appreciate you sharing your story. This was fun, thank you. If you made it this far, I bet you loved the episode. So you should join our YouTube channel membership for only $2.99 a month. This gets you access to one, the whole unabridged conversation. Two, you get the episodes on Monday, one day earlier. 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