 Hi everyone. Welcome to JSOC office hours. Today we have a short sync up about incoming JSOC 2019. So we'll discuss the status of pending projects, pending activities and preparation work. So officially JSOC application period starts only in January of the next year, but we want to prepare in advance. We want to have project ideas and that's why we start regular status meetings. This is one of the first status meetings. Just a second. I'll share my screen. Okay. Do you see it? Yes. Okay, cool. And I made sure to pin it so that we do not lose the information. So if you want to join the call, we have JSOC Gitter channel and there are two links here. One is for this Hangouts session. So if you want to join and ask some questions, just use this link and there is a link to meeting notes. And I'll probably just go directly to the meeting notes so that we can discuss the details. And yeah, as I said, the first item is status sync up. So we had a number of action items from the previous week. Let's take a look at them. One of them is come up to the proposal about Jenkins.io website. We haven't done it per se, but what is interesting to people, there is Jenkins.io, Jenkins.ia. We have a discussion thread. So now there is a discussion about creating community onboarding and outreach and advocacy special interest group. So if you're interested, you can just join this discussion and there will be more details about that. And I assume that the proposal will be a natural outcome of this discussion. So probably I'll just park with section item for now. Okay, regarding the rest, so JSOC expenses, we're still waiting for reimbursement set guess. And Jeff, as far as I can tell, hasn't submitted this request, but there is no time and pressure. And yeah, let's go forward. Individual summary blog posts, it's still on me, so the rest is completed. But yeah, as we discussed last week, I will be just publishing it when maybe about announcing the next year so that I just cross announced it. Okay, I like to create JSOC or admin checklist. As you may guess, I haven't completed this section item, but it's really working purpose now. So my plan is to send it by the end of the day. But something like two pages already, but yeah, I need to finish it. That would be great. Like for example, you're asking me, Martin or Jeff to become a contact or admin for one of the proposals. But I don't really understand the context of what it refers to. It's a separate story because contact or admin is something we will discuss in the last call. So we will get to it, but it was a part of the process discussion. Yeah, as far as the process discussion, we discussed the last call, but like how that fits into the bigger picture. Oh, yeah, that's right. So that's why I meant by that. So let's just that it's in the project ID application process. And let's talk about it in detail. Okay, what else do we have here? Create the JSOC 6 skeleton. So Martin also integrated the student guidelines or not. The student guidelines are done. So your project JSOC students. So yeah, these guidelines, we updated in order to reflect the current state. And yeah, Martin did a lot of changes and the details taking our experience from previous years. So you may see that it takes a while to scroll these guidelines now. And this is really good. So thanks a lot, Martin. Okay. Okay. So yeah, this is shining them done. Open JSOC project proposal guidelines. Okay, I was able to decode it. So it's still a work in progress. But it's a kind of collaborative effort. And last week we spent the most of the college with this project proposal guidelines. So we'll return to that. Then I like to request the work. I like to request the permissions for events, Jira, fall or commitments. So for GitHub, it was done for YouTube. I'm not sure whether I created it. Okay, I will double check after the call. If no, I will create the ticket. Probably we should migrate this notes to Confluence so that we have check boxes later to speed up the things. Okay. And yeah. I believe that's it in the previous project. And we also have some action items in Jenkins Jira. So let me take a look. So it's JSOC prep work. Take a look what's there. So here we have some action items. We still need to update mentor guidelines to create some labels, et cetera. But many activities actually have been closed. So Martin, do you think that this task is completed? Yes. Okay, then I'll just close it. What else budget approval is still waiting for response? Last week I asked everybody to take a look at the JEP and provide feedback if something is missing. Has anyone had a chance to take a look? Sorry? Martin, did you ask something? Yeah, I'm just looking at JEP aid. Okay. So why is it important if you need to do some expenses for the next JSOC, especially in the beginning of the year when I move? So I'll adjust it explicitly. Let's move on. So we have some action items there. One of the items I wanted to ask Jeff about is about this task. But so far it's not completed. And maybe we should switch directly to the project idea application process. Is it fine with you guys? Yeah, so last week we spent some time to align two processes. One we had before and what was announced on the website. And another one which was proposed by Martin based on Google Docs. And so this is a landing page for the proposal. I just landed that. So how it happens now. In order to coordinate project idea applications, we have created a status document. There is an action item to move some information to Genki Sayo. So for example, Lloyd have already moved this information to Genki Sayo, right? Oh, no. There was information about the rules and it was moved. Yeah, not this document. I think you have it highlighted on the top as a to do to move both of this. But I don't know which specific sections you want it. But what I created was a specific rows and responsibilities. Yeah, right. So maybe we will need to move on there. But yeah, that's perfectly fine. Thank you. So what is important here? Now we expect project idea submitters to actually send us Google Docs in a special format. Why is it important? Because we want to provide a venue for people to discuss the proposal in advance. So how it happens. Whoever wants to propose a new JSOC project idea, they take this sample. And then they submit it to us using NITR or using JSOC value increased. Doesn't matter. And after that we process the proposal. So you may see that there is a project proposals dashboard. It includes ideas which we already had published and some new proposed project ideas. And you may see that there are some statuses and the contactor admin. So contactor admin is a person who helps the proposal to be reviewed and who provides initial feedback. But or can mean some of the responsible for facilitating discussions in the community. Though they provide advices how to do that. And yeah, there are some statuses. So here, for example, we can take a new project proposal. It has been submitted today by Rick about multi-branch support for GitLab. So here's a project idea based on this template. You may see that there is some ongoing discussion about links, etc. But it already has some content so we can publish that and initiate the discussion. And you may see that there are some references in public channels. So there is already some comments and comments, etc. And this is really good for us. So what happens next with this proposal? Once contactor admin is assigned, he reviews this proposal and shows that all fields are OK. And then he goes to Jenkins IO repository and accepts the idea as draft and publishes it in parallel. If we go to projects.js or if we go to JSOP project ideas, you may see that now we have two tables here. One table is for the draft project ideas and another one is for project ideas, which have been already reviewed and which have been already published. So for these ones, we have pages. So now each JSOP project has a separate page so you can put separate links there. You can put references to blog posts, etc. This thing works automatically and it discovers a lot of things by the JSOP label nowadays. And also security docker, etc. So it's a bit complicated. But they can take away that each project has its own page and there will be channels linked for discussions. And of course project ideas draft. For draft project ideas, which we have added, so now there are three project ideas. And if you open any of them, so for example, let's take this one from Martin. You may see that actually it's marked as a draft and you can go to this page and provide feedback directly in the project idea. So it's published on the website, but it doesn't contain body because it's under active review. So if you're interested in the project idea, you can just review it and then probably join a potential list of the mentors. So if you want to join, you can totally do that. And yeah, that's how the process work. So once the project is published, you may see that for GitLab the idea hasn't been published yet. So let's go back. There is no GitLab because it's a kind of staged project idea right now. Jenkins Infra, sorry, Jenkins.io. And here you may see that there is a pending pull request. So ORC admin is responsible to create this pull request or contributors may create it on their own. But generally ORC admin is responsible to do that and it's just a stop like that. And after that, once the pull request is accepted, is Rick on the call, by the way? No, he's not. I see a Mr. Jenkins. Is that Rick? No, I believe that's me, but there may be another Mr. Jenkins. Yeah, it may be Rick. Rick, your mic is off if that's you online. Okay. Yeah, I want to come back so we can discuss that. But generally once ORC admin proposes this project idea, once he gets a review of the champion, champion is another role in the project idea. So champion is a person who is responsible to derive this idea towards publishing. So it means that he just facilitates the discussion, looks for potential mentors, et cetera. And one of the changes I propose to do here, which we haven't discussed before, is that we all should also consider champion as a potential mentor in the project idea. So it's something I wanted to discuss today because it may be yes or maybe no, and I would like to know your opinions. What do you think? Yes, I would have accepted this, but I wanted to wait until the call. But yes. Yeah. So the idea there is that we do not have project ideas published on our website, which do not have potential mentors. It's about the reason why I would like to accept it. The technical reason is that for now we don't have champions here. We have only mentors. Yeah. I would say I've received a notification review. I have not reviewed Rick's proposed draft first. Regarding to not publishing until there are mentors, I think it's a great idea. And then in that context, even for projects that have been published, for example, there's a separate one about external workspaces where Martin is both the project champion and the org admin and mentor. I've been having conversation with Martin within the draft, even though it's published, about how to go about finding additional mentors. Whereas we're able to have that conversation in the original draft document so that if someone is available to become another mentor for this project. So yeah, if you scroll down to project idea draft, even though this is published, within the Google doc here, scroll down to the mentor section. There's like a TBD doc discussion about person number two. And Martin, I've been having conversations about that. This new process also facilitates how to bring on bomb or new mentors to it. This is completely new to them. And then secondarily, like in this specific case that this type of conversation, it's not as suited well directly on the Jenkins website or within the already closed pull request, because the pull request that published this was done by Oleg for five different projects and it would just be confusing as opposed to being able to discuss it here in context, in line. Yeah, right. It's totally correct. And for some projects, so if there are related discussion channels like charts or my link list, if the link is provided within project idea, then we automatically get it published. So here there was a Gitter channel for this project. I actually just get it so it's automatically listed on the page. So it may also help. So if somebody is interested, they can go to this chart, ask questions, et cetera. And obviously, we ask people to monitor these charts so that they can provide feedback. And it will definitely help potential students. Yeah, but for a new proposal, they may not necessarily have a Gitter channel chat set up. I mean, sorry, new proposals about an idea that's not an existing plugin. Yeah, usually it is or enhancement for existing plugin. So currently we have proposals only for plugins and dev tools for plugins. Yeah, sometimes it's just different to say whether you need a new plugin or whether you need to update existing plugin. So for example, for GitLab multi-branch, there is already such a discussion going. And I believe it's really up to the student and mentors to do the final design. Because sometimes it seems one option is better than you start technical discussion and you see that another option is preferable. So I prefer to not specifically put new plugins or existing plugins here as long as it possible. Got it. Yeah, so here maybe it's not that good because he's new, but anyway, it's subject for the discussion. Okay, let's go back to the process. So once the idea is published and once it's a draft, the champion is responsible to reach out to the community and to discuss the proposal. As Orca means, we recommend common channels like GSolk, special interest groups, charts, special interest groups in the Jenkins community, developer mailing list, etc. But yeah, as contact Orca means, we are not responsible to facilitate this discussion and we ask champions to focus on that. Because Orca means there are up to five Orca means and we are not much scalable, especially in January when there is a lot of administrative stuff to do. So any help from champions will be really helpful. What happens next, once the ideas are discussed well, effectively, once champion is fine and once contact Orca means fine, then we can say that maybe we have multiple Orca means who knows. So once everything is fine, we move the status to accepted. And again, somebody does modification on the Jenkins IO website. So what happens there, we take the project idea and effectively we move the content from the Google Summer of code, Google Doc, I mean the original draft. We move it to the description so you get full page here and this everything is updated so that there is more details posted on the project idea site director. But if champion still wants to have project idea draft, we retain the link and we can explicitly mention that more details are available in the project idea draft. Because sometimes project idea reach several pages and this project idea won't look very good if you have several pages of information here. And after that, the project idea is considered as fully published. So this is the current process for creating applications. We changed it significantly since the last year. But yeah, optimistic that it will help us to get better project ideas because in the previous year we just had a page like. So something, yeah, just trying to find the previous project and the previous project was formatted differently. So yeah, this is a 2018 project ideas and this is just a big page of information for project ideas. And obviously it limits amount of information we can put here. And it also limits usability of this page because it's hard to navigate, it's hard for students to find the information. So hopefully this year will be better. So this is the current process. There is an action item on Jeff Pierce to actually update our application guidelines in order to reflect this project on the Jenkins website. So now we handle both previous process and this process. But yeah, finally it will be great to get it on the website. And it would be great to get it on the website before we reach out in the developer million please and other white communication channels. So that's why I was interested to have Jeff on the call, but I'll try to reach out to him after the call. Okay, any questions? Yes, one question I want to know what you use an acronym in one of the comments. It's P-T-A-L. Please take a look. Sorry, acronyms kind of but have it for me. So should we go through the documents and accept the changes? This is one of the options or maybe we could sync up on the community outreach. Because yeah, we didn't reach this topic before at the previous call. So last week we had this table. And probably we should just discuss what's going on there. Yes. Okay, just a second. Yeah, okay. So I've just copied it. Maybe we'll need a better format next time. Okay. So what we had regarding platform sync, I reached out to the sync members. We had some discussion about that. I still need to create a follow up in the email, but I hope that we will get some projects there. Especially hopefully around Java version support, et cetera, because there is a lot of interest in this area nowadays. Because we are rolling towards the GA for Java 11 and there are new versions in coming. And maybe some packaging, operating system support. So I hope we will get at least one or two projects there. Then for cloud native Jenkins, I also wanted to sync up with Jeff. So it's still open. There is no meetings scheduled at cloud native Jenkins sync. So, so far, we need a mailing list. Before the mailing list, we cannot really do much. Then regarding changes, localization, sync, maybe Rick has some updates. So he submitted my multi branch pipeline on his own. But yeah, maybe there is something specific to change his localization. Rick, if you are trying to talk, you are muted. Okay. Oh, now we hear you. Rick, maybe you would like to just put the update in the chat and we will take it. Okay, let's move on then. Christian, how was going with pipeline authoring sync? Hey, I haven't had a chance to visit any of their meetings yet. And good news so that we have a meeting in 90 minutes. Okay, perfect then. I'll mention that then. I've been away, so it's been kind of difficult. Yeah, that's fine. But the good news so that we already have two projects which definitely map the special interest group. So it's promoted builds for pipeline. I was about starting mailing list thread for that. And another one is the club multi branch support from Rick. Yeah, I saw that. So there is a branch pipeline as well. We need to be specific because there are the multi branch plugins. So there is a threat in the developer list for that. So if you go to the meeting, Christian, unfortunately, I will be late to the meeting, but if you go there, maybe you could bring it up at the discussion. Okay. So then let's scroll down. JSOC, I believe we don't submit anything specific. So we could find some proposals like better project ideas website or whatever, but yeah, I'm not sure. If you want, we can totally do that. So if you have any ideas about something which could be interesting for JSOC. Please bring it on and we can discuss that. Okay. Jenkins X. Yeah, so Jenkins X. This is my conversation with James. We're all in about two weeks ago. I have not since heard another update and then the office hours then it hasn't happened more recently. So that's about two weeks. I'll just go into Slack and follow up with James. See whether they have any defender proposals. And I think now because we have the new process more fleshed out that I will work with them through that depending on what proposals they want to pitch. Yeah, that's great. I'll probably also start some bits on my side because there is Jenkins X serverless. There is Jenkins file runner being used there. I'm currently thinking about project ID, which could be done there, but it's a bit premature. But yeah, I'll try to bring up something as well. Sounds good. Thank you. Okay. So I would think about Jenkins file runner and actually maybe one pro project I will propose. So I have started Jenkins. Okay, I messed it up. It's good. Okay. So I started a new project recently. It's a CI Jenkins IO runner. So effectively it's a kind of clone of CI Jenkins IO. It's official instance we use, but it's packaged as Jenkins file runner. And it uses some utilities, et cetera, or why it would be interesting for us. It's because we can offer new tools to plug in developers so that they can evaluate how they changes in Jenkins pipeline libraries help. And I will probably propose something around that. So if somebody wants to discuss it more to it, maybe. And it will be rather in-depth tools. So maybe I'll just talk a little bit about that. Okay. Let's go next. Martin. Yes, I've contacted Evelina regarding configuration as code. She says that the interest appears to be lower. And she is having a hard time restarting the office hours for her configuration as code. Yeah. Yeah, maybe it's something. Yeah, today they will office hours. Today they will office hours for configuration as code. Okay. I would not. It's not low interest in JSOC. I think she is highly interested in JSOC. Okay. But she's having a hard time getting her JCASC community together. Well, meetings happen at ATM UTC. So it's hard to get Europe. It's impossible to get the United States on the call. Almost impossible. So yeah. ATM UTC. Oh, yeah. So yeah, we had a discussion about that today. And likely we will reconsider the time to get the community together. Okay. Actually it's my bet. I should have brought up a Google summer of code on the call today. But there were only three people including me. So what we could do? Yeah. I wanted to talk about reaching out to them in the chat. Yeah. I wanted to talk to Ivelina first before doing a broadcast in the chat. But I can do a broadcast in the chat. Yeah. It's one of the ways to get community together. Because one of the purpose of Google summer of code in this project is to help contributors and do community bonding, not only among students, but also among mentors. So if it helps, why not? Okay. Do they have a mailing list or it's the chat? No. No mailing list on the chat. Okay. Okay. I will follow up in the chat. Okay. Thank you. So Kristen. Right. They had their meeting canceled this week, but I did mention it to a couple of members of the evergreen team. And there does seem to be a lot that can be done. So I think part of it, they need to, they have a couple of proposal ideas that haven't really been fleshed out. Some of them are involving improving some of the tests and some of you, like making a better user experience. But I think they haven't really started working on anything here and I can probably reach out to Baptiste to get more concrete stuff. But yeah, there is definitely some work that can be done by students. So that's a big plus. Yeah. And I think that we can get at least a project from this group. Okay. That's great. Thank you. Infrastructure. Yes. I've tried to contact Olivier and there is no, no response. I was trying to look at the list of. Members for the infrastructure. SIG. And, and there seems to be only two or three people. So I think it's a small SIG on this. Well, it's something. It's not. Yeah. So I can explain the structure. It's not a special interest group. It's a team. Yes. The team is relatively smaller, but we have around 20 people in the mailing list. Cool. Yeah. Not all of them are full members of infrastructure team. I would say so. But if you send a message into the mailing list, probably we cannot get something. And actually what I could propose, we could just take this bit. And I could send a proposal about. CIG and can say or run it there. What is the mailing list? Couldn't find one. I think I found the Gitter chat. No, that's cool because I know about RSC chat. I don't know about Gitter chat. Okay. I guess I found Olivier on Gitter. Then that's what happened. Oh, yeah. Then probably no surprise. He didn't reply. Okay. So you can see that there is a link actually here. So if you want to reach out to them, maybe it could be a good starting point. Okay. So, yeah. Okay. I'll use the mailing list. Okay. Thank you. So regarding Jenkins IO. Yeah. I think it's rather a part of the infrastructure, but I'm not sure who would be the contact there. So maybe you should just park it for now. Until we get some clarity of what could be done there. So question about Jenkins IO. Does that eventually then be part of the community development CIG that Olivier yourself and Tracy are working on? Yeah, it could. So actually I wanted to add this CIG to the list. Yeah. So it's something we could do. But yeah, if we do that, we need to understand what we could offer. Actually, I had one proposal for this community outreach CIG. We had a discussion for outreach this year and we had a discussion before about the project improving user experience for people with disabilities. For example, color blind mode for Jenkins and other such things. There are proposals. Potentially we could involve Shin Yu Zheng from the previous JSOC because he was interested about adding such modes to the code coverage plugins. So it's one of the options we could consider regarding the community outreach CIG. But it's not something I discussed. Maybe we could drop the idea there once the CIG is created. Yeah, that makes sense from an accessibility perspective. I think the measurement with the possible challenge would be would that be then considered as code for modifying ASCII doc content? I'll leave that up to you and Tracy to make a determination. Personally, I think that updating content is not the JSOC. So even if we say that ASCII doc is configuration as code for Jenkins website, it's a bit dangerous. So what we could do there in the Jenkins site website is actually things, for example, update plugin site. So for example, community ratings for plugins for plugins rendering, change logs from GitHub, et cetera, et cetera. Such projects could qualify as coding projects. We really need to ensure that this is about coding, not about updating the content. Right, and then if it's coding, whether it's something that runs on the front end of the website, I'll leave it up to you to make that determination. Yeah, another thing. So we just need to reach out to people and maybe once we get... Yeah, so we need mentors, firstly. We can generate dozens of project ideas, but if they are not backed by mentors, it's a problem. Understood. Yeah, so my approach there would be to just have a kind of brain dump of potential project ideas. And if there is at least one person who is interested to be a mentor there, then we can expand it, so publish as a draft, and then try to get this person as a champion. So as Orca means, I would rather recommend to limit the number of project ideas where we are champions, because otherwise you may hit the bandwidth issues relatively quickly. Yeah. So yeah, we can facilitate the discussions in the community by outreach into projects, proposing such project ideas, but it's better to minimize the number of project ideas where we are champions. Okay, let's go next. Remoting. We had a sync up with Vutuan. He's interested to propose something. He was about thinking about the topic, so maybe I'll sync up with him in a few weeks. And we also had a discussion with Sukun and he also was interested to mentor a project idea within the remote scope or maybe within a role strategy. So role strategy is one of the project ideas which is already published. So maybe we'll have Sukun here as well, which is also good. Thanks to him. Okay, and then Blow Ocean. So for Blow Ocean, unfortunately I wasn't really successful there, so I checked some contents and actually I would say that now it's better to not expect project ideas around it, but Blow Ocean could be used as a kind of, yeah, so other projects may include integration with Blow Ocean as a part of the scope if Blow Ocean extensibility is delivered by GSOC community bonding. But it's hard to say whether it will be delivered. And when you say you're not successful, I think the minimal criteria is needing a project champion and it sounds like there's no project champion to begin with. Well, there may be a project champion, but you're asked in the Gitter channel no response. And yeah, I'll probably try again, but so far the project is not as active as I would like to see. So I'm trying to be careful there. Got it. Thank you. Yeah, but whatever, this is just initial outreach and actually what I wanted to talk about today is what do we do next? So usually we send emails to the developer maybe at least, but in order to do that we need this full request in place. Before that, I think we should be cautious about why they would reach because we may confuse people by the wrong process. But yeah, once it's established we can start reaching out to people. Today it's December 5th, so if you start doing it early next week it would be fine. What do you think? Yeah, I think if given that people might be around at least maybe in my case with the Jenkins ads community a number of folks that are depending with the holidays traveling being out that I like to reach them probably this week just ping James and say now we have a process now it's more firmly fleshed out. Do they have ideas? They can start maybe just as a champion and they can find mentors possibly even after the upcoming holidays but we should at least have I think a proposal just like Rick had submitted for the GitLab portion where there's a proposal but there might not be mentors as a next practical achievable step. Yeah, that's my thought. Yeah, that's right. So last year we did maybe go to maybe half of the proposals from the mailing list. Actually developer mailing list. We are regarding the CIO blog post. It's just some outreach, some visibility. We also discussed having a poster at FOSDOM. So FOSDOM happens in the beginning of the February and FOS is one of the most perfect time slots to get some not last minute but late project ideas. So when we already apply but you will be still collecting project ideas after that. And one of the topics we were discussing somewhere in the chat is that having some Jumbotrons. So now we have Jumbotron on the landing page like that. And probably we could get JSOC here. Hard to say but we could discuss that and we could also get Jumbotrons in Jenkins IO participate here. So we could also have a kind of Jumbotron here offering projects. So there will be a Google summer of code maybe outreach if we apply for the summer maybe some other community events. Let's see. So it could also help us with outreach but these two ones are the most important ones and it would make sense to start them at least this one as soon as you have this request landed. That's why I wanted to talk with Jeff at the call. Okay that makes sense. And it sounds like before we get to the submission in February one of the focus areas from a bandwidth perspective is aligning mentors and project champions. Otherwise we can't include them as part of the organizational application. So in our organization application we need to say how many people have shown interest to be mentors. So we do not list mentors within the project application. At least we didn't need to do it in the previous year. So the form of this year may change. I see. Okay so provide a general number. So what we do we open this page at the time of the application we count how many mentors we have here. I mean unique ones and then we say that this is an approximate number of mentors who have shown interest or something like that. Okay that makes sense to me. Thank you. Thank you too. And yeah so the application period actually starts on January 15th so the deadline is in February but it would be nice if we apply early if we have everything in place. And they are blocked by LEX or Karmine governments because I am collecting links to the previous application years. Martin should also have them because last year we mostly copy pasted the previous application years there is no need to develop everything from scratch. We have a lot of documentation it needs some face lifting usually before application but yeah now it's kind of simplified so we have all the documents and we just copy them. So the application itself is not a big deal. Application is just organization profile some overview of the project something like 15 fields to fill in and at least two Orchard means. We have four Orchard means now one slot is empty but we may get to five theoretically. If somebody is interested to become Orchard mean let us know. My proposal would be to keep this slot kind of open until we get to the application period but if somebody is interested there is an open slot for that. So if anyone that's watching this recording right now is interested in being a work admin please reach out to us either on the Gitter chat or mailing list. Thank you. Yeah but even four Orchard means is something which is quite an achievement for us. In previous years we had three Orchard means but yeah this year I hope we will get much more project ideas and much more mentors involved. So maybe having more Orchard means is something interesting to us. So now we have four. Okay so we are almost running out of time but yeah I can stay for several minutes more. Are there any topics which we haven't covered yet? I have a couple questions. Yeah sorry I consumed too much time with this discussion. It's okay it's all good. So I'll go quick with my questions. So the update with regards to the the Christopher Densey libraries is he's responding so I think we have a high chance of having a new mentor on these projects this year. I have one question about that because when you creating this project idea you already listed him as mentor. Yes I had reached out to him a month and a half ago and he said yes. Oh okay so yeah that's good. But yeah I was just concerned that he's already listed as potential mentors. Actually what we need to do is change mentors here to potential mentors. So to avoid confusion. Okay. Yeah just noted that. I wanted to know if these projects should stand alone on their own or if they should be part of a special interest group like a pipeline authoring. It depends on how you want to change it. So if you're interested to participate in pipeline authoring, then it should be in pipeline notorink. But yeah pipeline authoring doesn't cover everything around pipeline. It's just about development of ecosystem and the low level architecture as far as it can tell. But generally it's your getting late. Sorry. It's your decision as potential mentor. But yeah the recommendation is actually to build the project idea around special interest groups so there are as many people. Okay from the description you're giving it sounds like we could reach out to we could I could reach out to the pipeline authoring only for advice because it's simply a plugin that has pipeline support. So unless there's a benefit like unless there's a there's a benefit every week or every month of being there. I don't think it benefits the project or the SIG to be with them. So yeah let's see. So it's your decision. Okay. And the other one is the external what the proposal about external workspace to support cloud. Is this one should this one be done with the cloud SIG? I think so. At least we need to reference it in the discussions so that it gets some visibility in there and you get mentors. Okay. Maybe I can maybe I can mention the Christopher Dancy plugins Jenkins REST, Rectory REST and Bitbucket REST. Maybe I can mention them in the authoring pipeline authoring SIG just as a mention without going any further with that. Yeah. Just for awareness. Yeah mention because it's fine. Is there a mailing list for okay I'll check the mailing list page for cloud SIG. Yeah. Okay. Anything else to discuss because yeah such questions we could technically discuss in Gitter or should we just close down? Yeah so questions about this Hangout meeting is the intent to have more community participation as new people to join this or is a recommendation really people should start with the main list just for the flow of this meeting agenda. Well now it's rather office hours so if we start getting people from outside joining the call we'll be first talking about the equations etc and then about the general status. Okay. Okay so just keep it as office hours and then depending on who joins. Thank you. Okay that's fine. Yeah no questions for me. Okay then probably we should close down and yeah after that we can just sync up later. Okay thanks everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.