 Hey everyone, and welcome to the Zelda Informer podcast. I am your host Nathaniel Rufflejantz joined again after a little break due to some technical difficulties by our co-host Alfred. Hello. And this week for the first time although it feels like the fifth time because he's been trying every week. Third time's a charm, baby. Third time's a charm. One of our writers at the site, Mr. Christen. Hello. Got to finally be here. It's so weird for me to say your name too because my mom's name is Christen, so it's like... Ah man, I'm sorry to hear that. Anyways, obviously I just called her mother, so I don't have to worry about it too much. We got a jam-packed podcast for today including towards the end of the cast we have the results from our E3 batting, so that's... You guys are gonna want to tune in for that because there's gonna be some high debates going on on who won. This will be, this will be fun, but let's just get right into the main reason most of you guys are here because I mean, come on, who cares about some personal bets until you actually see the punishment. True. Very true. I care. Oh, the punishments. The punishments. Of course we care. Yeah, I'm curious. All right, so we're gonna get right into our first segment here. So we have a whole bunch of topics for this week because there's a whole bunch of news. Obviously, we're gonna continue to get a bunch of news for Breath of the Wild, but we're not just gonna be talking about Breath of the Wild today. I know Shocker. But we're gonna get right into our first topic and I kind of, I don't want to spend a whole lot of time on this topic because I know how touchy it gets for people. But it is something I wanted to go over just because it, you know, all this news got hit in the last week with all the interviews and everything hitting online. So this one, the first topic is basically that Link is always going to be the hero of the main games. So let me go over the exact quote here. This comes from the series creator, Shigeru Miyamoto. He says, we clearly talked with the team to make a game centered about Sheik, so I cannot say it is impossible to see something of the sort in the future. But in the classic games in the series, Link is the hero and that will not change. For the rest, you have to be patient and see what happens. And then earlier in the week, Idionomo kind of had this to say when talking about, you know, having like a gender option or like a female character playable in Zelda. So that Linkle was something that the game producer for Hyrule Warriors, Yusoki Hayashi from Koei Tecmo wanted to include in that game. And we thought for a game like that, where you're constantly switching characters, it might work. But for the type of Zelda that we're making, the fact that there is a princess Zelda and a Link, we don't just think that is quite right. A few years ago, I mentioned that it might not be Link in a trailer. And it kind of caught fire and people started to think that it may be a female Link. That's definitely not what I had in mind. I was very surprised and I should be careful what I say. Alright, a lot to digest. But the general gist of it is that Link as a character is male. Link is always going to star in the main games. There's not going to be like an option to play as somebody else outside of, I'm sure like the short portions of the game. Like, you know, in Majora's Mask you have to play as Kaffee, I think, for a little bit. So there might always be portions of the game like that. But in general, you're not constantly switching characters, as he said. So you're going to be playing as Link. And that there obviously won't be a gender option for him or a female character option. So obviously, this has been a huge topic to debate as Elden Former. Pretty much since Darren dropped the big bomb editorial and got the whole world mad at him. It's not like I made things better by posting a certain comic. But obviously, this has been a huge topic to debate. And it seems like it's kind of put to bed now. There's almost no reason to even hold the conversation, I think, at this point. Because now we've heard from the two people, the creator of Zelda, and the person who is the lead producer of all Zelda games, that, yeah, it's not going to happen. Link is it. And he's been it for 30 years and he's going to keep being it. At least as long as these two are alive and have a say. So yeah, you guys have any thoughts on that? I don't even know where you guys stood on that whole debate. Well, it sucks we're not going to get one of Gamelon 2, but there and that. It's fine. Zelda is going to be there, of course, but I think there's going to be a point in certain other games have this to where it's like the final game, where a big blockbuster game, where I'll have the small story segments, where you play a different character. So I think probably not this game breath for a while, but maybe a future Zelda game that will happen. I am curious. See, I don't know if they're even going to do that again. And I only say that because, and this kind of leads into what the second topic is going to be, so I don't want to get into it quite yet, but it's going to be a mode of did mention specifically that there could be some side games, where Link isn't the hero. Yeah. He brought up an example himself, a game centered around Sheik, and having Sheik be the star. What am I playing a Sheik game? That would be really cool. So what they did in Majora's Mask was very unusual, because I don't know if they've even done that in any of the other games. Replay is another character. Unless you want to count controlling the Phantom and Spirit Tracks. To me, that was more like an item use. Yeah, well I wouldn't really consider Kafkae and a side character in Majora's Mask either that you play as, because it's not for like a significant portion of the game. Well yeah, it's just like a little side quest thing that you do. It was really interesting and cool, but it wasn't... Well at that point it's basically like controlling the Phantom. It's not that important. I mean, don't say that that side quest isn't important, it's one of the bigger ones in the game, but that's not like, oh my gosh, you're playing with someone else. That portion of the quest isn't, it's like a huge deal. I really think that down the road there is going to be a game where Link's not the main hero, because it's going to get to a point where people would like something a little different. They've tried that once in a while, but they never really truly tried it without Link. I would love to play something like a Sheik game, because when I think the Sheik game, all I'm actually thinking of is like a stealth action game, or after that. That could be really exciting to play something like that. Yeah. Now, you know, on the side of the people, because there's a lot of people upset about this, and it always strikes me odd that they're upset about it since, I mean, they haven't been upset about it for 30 years. So suddenly you're upset about it, that nothing's changed, I guess. I will say that in their defense, some of the early excuses given towards the beginning of the first day of E3 were pretty bad. There was one about how the balance of the Triforce would be off, because there's a princess, and there's Ganondorf and Link, so if they had a female Link or a female character, it would throw the balance off for some reason. I thought that was a weird excuse, because I don't remember the balance ever being based off gender. Yeah, I think it was really weird. Plus, how many times did they replace Ganon in the game and had a different enemy? It was just a really bad excuse. It felt like they were just pulling something out of their butt. I mean, the main reason people are getting heated over this is that nowadays people like to debate over gender equality in different things, movies, television, games. I mean, now that the producer and the creator are being more open about not being there being a female Link, now people are getting in more of an uproar nowadays, because nowadays you have to have an opinion regarding gender equality. That's how the internet wants you to be. And to be fair, I know that gender equality has a big, encompassing thing, but there isn't a problem with it in the gaming industry. Yeah, definitely. Especially in the development realm, it's really bad. Females are, from all the stories I've seen, it's all horror stories. Unless a girl runs her own company or is really high up in the company, they're treated really bad. Obviously, I don't have a lot of one-on-one experience in terms of seeing that in studios myself, but I can say things like, even when I went to E3 this year, I was there, and it was about 85% males in terms of the media and all the attendees. So it was already mostly a male-dominated thing. A lot of the booths, including Nintendo's, included basically showgirls. They're there to look pretty. I posted a thing on Twitter, but this is the closest you get to a female link. Nintendo had models of women all over their booth wearing links attire, even though link is not female. And obviously, that's recognizing the crowd. It's 85% males. When I first started watching earlier E3s on television, and it was so sneaky, I know for a fact it used to be a lot worse because it seemed like what they called booth babes. It was a lot worse. They've definitely toned down. Nintendo, obviously, no one was wearing anything that was overly sexualized, so it wasn't a big deal. It was just cosplaying link. Okay, cool. But there was a lot of... Some of the other booths had some scantily clad women. So it's a problem. And I understand that E3 is a bad barometer and it encompasses video game media, which I think is only recently, maybe in the last five years, really starting inviting females into that environment and letting them become big names and covering things and not just be showgirls on a video. Yeah, it's true. If you watch a lot of... even at IGN or GameSpot, if you see a woman on a video cast for them, someone who's pretty good looking. Yeah, and that's on purpose because they know their audience. And that sucks. I'm not saying that good-looking women can't be in the industry and they can't be passionate about games and being on camera. Of course they can. That's nothing against that. But it's kind of showing the leaning of all the media towards serving what kind of online, unfortunately, is primarily a male audience. And I think that's where this whole gender equality comes up. And how Zelda got roped into all of it is really... I mean, AJ Noma here admits that it's kind of his fault because he said something that inferred that it wasn't link so people thought, oh, it's a female link or something. It's really weird how they inferred it was a female link when he said that that might not be link. Yeah, it did later. He literally said it might not... I didn't explicitly say that was link. Okay. So somehow, and we were part of that problem, it got twisted into like, oh, he didn't say it's link so it's a female. No, he literally said that it might not be link at all. Not like a female version. It might not even be that character. Yeah, it wasn't until later. And he clarified that same E3, too. Two days later, he was like, oh, I didn't mean gender option stuff. I meant that people shouldn't be so attached to how link looks. And obviously that was alluding to what we have in Breath of the Wild, which is all the clothing options and the ponytail and doing things differently and breaking conventions of how link looks. Yeah, that's where he brought that comment about, you know, yeah, yeah. So that's what he actually meant. He just... How link looks and hydrogen is in this. He had to bring that comment up. Otherwise, people would still constantly be getting on his case about it. Oh, yeah. Especially with the weak excuses he originally gave. Because like, I think everyone can accept the fact that it's like, look, we created Link as a male character. He's always going to be a male character. If they had just said that, no one would probably throw a fit about it because what are you supposed to say? Like, he's always been male. You know, why change it now? Just because he has multiple iterations? Like, it doesn't matter. You know, if that's what they want to do, that's what they're going to do. I think that the big thing here is, for me, The Legend of Zelda is kind of like an... It's an established series. Like, we can all recognize that it's been the way it has been for years. And to assume that because of the shift in time, like, of how our culture is going, that the game needs to follow that culture shift is an incorrect notion because look at games like Uncharted or look at games like Halo, where the character is male. Like, Master Chief is a guy, Nathan Drake is a guy, and while there are some supporting female characters, primarily the characters are men. And that's not necessarily a problem because that's reflective of, you know, again, the audience that it had. However, if you're looking at now, like, watching E3, two games come to mind immediately, showing, like, bringing in strong female protagonists, and we have Tomb Raider, the new Tomb Raider series, which is a very... is a less sexualized version of Lara Croft than we had back in the 90s. Yeah, I mean, still attractive, but, like, not more realistic, I'd say. Yeah, and then we have... Someone who would actually be doing that stuff. Yeah, and then we have Horizon Zero Dawn, which is another strong female protagonist in a game. And I think that if Nintendo wanted to do a game featuring a strong female protagonist that's not Metroid because who knows what they're doing with that game right now. Mm-hmm. They... I don't think it would be in their best interest to take an already established IP and build off of that. I think it would be in their best interest to go ahead and create an entirely new one. Because that's what Sony's doing with these new franchises, or that's what whoever's in charge of Tomb Raider's doing. Yeah, and... I mean, I always... Okay, so I was always indifferent on this because I don't really care if there were gender options or multiple playable characters. Like, I don't really... To be honest, I don't really play Zelda games because of Link. He just happens to be the character I'm given control of, but he really isn't why I play. Like, yeah, I've gotten into the lore and it's interesting, but a lot of the lore had, I mean, surprisingly so far, has had little to do with Link. It's just a hero saved the day. A hero could be anyone. Obviously, we know it's Link, but Link really hasn't had a personality or anything for me to really care too much about. Compared to, like, say, even the lead guy from Mass Effect in the trilogy, Shepherd. Shepherd. Like, he had more of a personality than Link did. So, like, I care about Shepherd and I understand that, you know, with the new Mass Effect game, they're not going to have Shepherd, and that makes sense. They wrapped up his story, like, move on. Yeah, I agree with your point on that. I really don't care what gender I play in a video game. All that matters to me is I'm playing the video game. That's all that matters. Like, even... Yeah, so I didn't care about that. I just thought, like... I never really finished making my point. I'm trying to remember what I was trying to say. Basically, it's that they took Zelda and somehow put it on the pedestal, and partially, you know, A.J. and Elmo admitted it partially his fault. Or they expected all this stuff from I wanted stuff from those rumors saying it was going to happen. And reality is that Zelda is a series that's been very respectful to women. Women are actually a bigger deal in this series than men are. I actually... I made this as a joking comment to someone one time, but if you want to talk about sexism in Zelda, it's almost slanted towards the men, because men are always the bad guys. Always. It's always a male character that's bad. Well, then most of the sages in Ocarina of Time were women, too. Yeah, most of the sages. The goddesses? We don't hear about gods. You hear about goddesses? Yeah, exactly. Like, all the most powerful people out there are female. And the bad guys always male. Yes, you know, the counterbalance, you know, and maybe this is what Nintendo was trying to say with the Triforce, the counterbalance to there being a strong male enemy and all these powerful women is to have a playable male hero. Like, I can understand maybe if that was the viewpoint they were going for, and they just conveyed it really, really bad. Really bad. Yeah, the closest they ever got to a female villain in a Zelda game was Hyrule Warriors, that was a really non-canon, A, and B. Yeah, that's not canon. And B, even if it was, she's only the main villain of the story for like half- Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Sorry, I apologize. You don't have to spoil it. The game's like three years old now, don't worry about it. Okay, so like the first half is just C.Ed's villain. You think, okay, that's over, she's a villain, we defeated her. No, no, Ganon's still the main guy. And if you paid any attention, you knew ahead of time that Ganon was the villain because Ganon was confirmed to be playable before the game was released. Yeah, so, you know, that's just an example of like, you know, there was... C.Ed was just like a Ghirahim, just a pawn. Yeah. And that... No, go on. That's it. Oh, yeah, that's it. Sorry. That's it. No, it's cool. Like, it's... I don't know. I always felt, you know, again, it's Agenome's fault if he had never made those remarks because I don't remember this really ever. I've been covering Zelda for 18 years. I don't remember this being talked about at all in regards to Zelda until Agenome made those remarks. There were some people that commented, you know, when the game was first shown off in 2014, that, oh, Link looks a little feminist, but that was it. That was as far as the conversation went. No one actually thought it was a female Link. And then he had to say what he said and everything blew up since then. Obviously, we had, you know, untrue rumors and all that stuff. So, yeah, I think, again, we spent way more time talking about this than I wanted to because this is a huge time. It's not just about Zelda, why people are upset. And also the thing is, it hasn't been at other Zelda games where Link has kind of looked a little bit more feminine. I mean, why haven't those been... He's always been a pretty boy. I've always been the most notable one about that. Like, I'd be playing in my college and someone would come and be like, hey, Link looks a little like a girl. I was like, yeah, you know, that... I've always, like, if you look at all the official art and then, you know, it always looked to me at Link's a pretty boy and pretty boys, as they kind of said, you know, in talking about the gender-neutral appearance of Link, it's a way to appeal to all genders because Tom boys can look like pretty boys and men can look like pretty boys. Like, it's kind of a thing that covers both genders. But, canically, Link is male. And apparently that's probably the way it's always going to be unless somebody else takes over the series and decides to change all that, which, you know, Nintendo would never retcon I mean, they totally do it all the time. And that's not a bad thing. As long as these two are running the series, this is the way it's going to be. And I don't see a problem with that. In fact, there's so much good stuff with Breath of the Wild that we should probably just move on from this topic. Yeah. I know our fans are sick of talking about it. I'm sick of talking about it. It's put to bed. Thank you, Miyamoto and Enomo, for, like, finally putting a nail in it and be like, look, keep talking about it all you want is not happening. End of story. Sorry, Tumblr. According to comments, we briefly talked about spin-off games. You know, how, like, that sheet game that Miyamoto was pressing for, you know, would be really cool as a side game. You know, I just want to talk about this for a couple minutes about the side games, because this is not a topic I really want to make sure we get to. You know, side games, we've had horror warriors. We've had links across for training in the past. A lot of people think Triforce Heroes is a side game, but it is not technically a side game. It is part of the main line of the series. Yeah, isn't it like a sequel to the link between worlds story? Yes, yes it is. So, you know, that's all fine and dandy. Like, whatever people want to think about the game is what they want to think. We can get to that game in a little bit here. But I am very interested in the idea of Nintendo expanding the Zelda universe and having more side games for their side characters. Yeah. You know, showing what happened, you know, like a sheet game, I would assume that would show what happened in the seven years and knock on your time. That would be really cool. And that would still fit in the timeline. It just wouldn't be considered a main game. Maybe it's not as long. Maybe it's a $40 game instead of a $60 game. Yeah. Or what have you. But, you know, it's just like a little side venture where, you know, they have a small team just, you know, exploring all this stuff, you know, based on, you know, whatever documentation they have or what happened. Using existing, you know, graphics and all this stuff they have so it doesn't take as long to make. Like, it would be kind of cool if they did that to fill the gaps, I guess. If we're going to keep getting these five, six-year gaps for main, like, home console games, like, it would be cool if they filled the gaps with these little side ventures. Oh, yeah. I would love to play different other characters pretty much. It would be really fun. Yeah. There's been enough unique characters in the Zelda universe that, you know, somebody could get their own side game and it would make complete sense. Yeah. I think the biggest thing for that, that I think Nintendo's a little bit hesitant on, is that there's no guarantee that the people that are playing the side game have played Ocarina of Time or played any of the other games. And so I kind of view it like, have you guys ever seen Cowboy Bebop or Space Dandy? Yeah. Cowboy Bebop. Yeah. So Watanabe, the creator, is always like his main thing with the show, with both shows, is that he wants each episode to kind of be its own separate thing to where you could jump in at any point in the series and understand what's going on. Like, you don't even have to know that. That's what Zelda's kind of like. Yeah. And so like, Zelda, aside from, I mean, unless you look at Majora's Mask and Phantom Hourglass, there's only two really direct sequels and even then you really don't 100% need to know what's going on in the series. No. To know what's going on. And so I've always imagined that as being Zelda and I think that might be where they're a little hesitant to kind of make a side game. Yeah. I mean, the counter to that is just that these are side games. Yeah. They don't have to work that way. Well, but I mean, like, that's speaking specifically to the thought that Sheik and the summoners. Side games, obviously, they don't have the Legend of Zelda moniker attached to them, right? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, it would just be like whatever the subtitle. Like, let's say, you know, it's Sheik's Avengence or, you know, Resurgence or Avengence. Like, people aren't even going to know who Sheik is unless you play Dockering of Time. Yeah. So they're not even going to be paying attention to that game unless they play that. Do you think that Nintendo would have enough fate in that title to sell? I think after this game, because this game right now, it clearly has a lot of base in, like, the Sheikah. Mm-hmm. You know, a lot of lore is going to be in there. And I think there might be a lot of back references because of what happened to Temple of Time, like some back references to Ocarina of Time that's going to make people really wonder what the heck Sheik was doing. I can see it as, like, a Nintendo eShop game, you know, like with Xbox Live or Kages. Like, what they do with the Assassin's Creed Chronicles games pretty much, where it was just a cheaper version. Sure. It was just a cheaper version game, same universe, different story. I can see Nintendo doing that, where it's pretty much the same, it's in the same realm. It's a bit cheaper than a full-price Zelda game, but you'll still get the full experience with this character that you're playing. Sure. Sure, I see what you're saying. Yeah. So we have a lot more to say on this topic. I'm going to jot this actually down, doing it right now. As a reminder, bring this up a little, maybe in a future podcast, so you can have a longer conversation on it. And I'm saying that just because I have a couple of really big topics here that I want to get into. Okay. Obviously, we're being slammed with news left and right, so one thing I really wanted to cover, though, because I have a lot to say on it, and I hope you guys do, too, is game delays. Oh. Nintendo, and Shigeru Miyamoto, and Eiji Inno finally opened up on why Zelda games seem to always get delayed. So I'm just going to go through all the quotes, and then I'll kind of go back and highlight one of the main things I want to talk about that really confuses me. So this comes from an interview. I forget who it's from. It'll be a link. We posted it on our site. So first, Shigeru Miyamoto says, first of all, it would be great if I didn't have to put a release date out at all. But I have to. Then Eiji Inno follows it up with, when we think about the release period for any Zelda game, we really want to get it out as soon as possible so that everybody can play and experience it. But every time we make a Zelda, we want to make something new. It's hard to gauge how long it's going to take. And it's also hard to gauge at what point whatever we consider to be new is done. A lot of times, what we try to tackle takes a lot longer than anticipated. So that's why many times the development struggles there, struggles, and there is a delay. The people around us keep telling us, this is the last one you really need to shape up. And then, let me see, Shigeru Miyamoto goes on, he has a long thing he says here. He says, I think there's different reasons for delays. One could be that the direction just hasn't been decided, which is probably the worst kind of delay. And the other is that the direction has been decided, but putting that into reality, implementing that is taking time. So it might have taken us six months to do this much, but it ends up taking us a year to do that much. In terms of Breath of the Wild, we implemented many things like the physics engine and the AI and types of graphics that we use. We had to make sure that the design has enough time to create that. It just dawned on us that we were not able to do that in this schedule. That's what we realized about two years ago. In this instance, we never really experienced this. So that's why we had to delay it. Mr. Onoma and I had this understanding that this game should be done in this time frame. And he's in a tough position. He can't say that we can't do it. So I had someone else look into it. And they had to convince Mr. Onoma, and then they had to convince me to delay it. All right. So a couple of big things in here. This might be... We're probably not going to get to the fourth topic, which sucks. The fourth topic's really good too. That's okay. That's what future podcasters are for, right? Exactly. So a couple of things I want to highlight. First of all, Shiguro Miyamoto is saying that he doesn't want to have to put a release date out, but for some reason he has to. To me, that's almost like an old mentality, because too often now games are just announced months before they come out. It's not a big deal. No one really thinks it's abnormal anymore. But for some reason with Zelda, they feel like they need that year and a half at least buffer to advertise it or something, which is really weird, because it's a big franchise. It really doesn't need that. And then another thing that he says that I thought was interesting is that for starters, game delays apparently are not decided by Mr. Ijiya Nobo. Hmm. Because he said in here that him and Mr. Miyamoto had an understanding of the game had to be done in no time frame, which I'm assuming was originally 2015. And then he says he's in a tough position. He can't say that we can't do it. So literally Ijiya Nobo cannot go to Miyamoto and be like, sorry, we can't do it in this time frame. Which explains why in 2014 Ijiya Nobo was very on point. This is coming out next year. Because apparently he doesn't get a say. That decision probably comes from Shigeru Miyamoto himself. And if there can be a delay. Based on what he said here. And even Miyamoto wasn't convinced that it couldn't be done. But apparently him and Inoma had a talk so they brought in a third party who went and looked at how development was going and then they convinced Mr. Inoma that sorry man, you're not going to get this done in time. And then on top of that they had to go back to Miyamoto and be like hey look, this game needs extra time. And obviously this seems to happen with every Zelda game. Especially the console ones. So I don't know what are you guys' thoughts on it? It's really cool to get this insight but I'm just confused on why they have to do things this way. I think that it shouldn't be unexpected to have delays now. I was reading not even an hour ago the news drop today that Batman Return to Arkham got delayed indefinitely. Sorry for any of those who haven't played the game or are waiting for that. Definite delays are some of the worst delays by the way. Yeah, well and then we have that could be development hell. That's a quote I'm saying we'll tell you when we're ready. That's basically oh god, something bad happened. And then we have games like No Man's Sky they were announced years ago and they've been pushed back and pushed back and we're getting it sometime this summer hopefully everybody's crossing their fingers for that. Talking about The Last Guardian 9 years, 10 years and it's finally getting released. Final Fantasy XV, another good example. All these games not saying that they're right to be delayed but we're at this really we're at a point now where game developers kind of give us this ultimatum it's like well would you rather have a delayed game that's finished or would you rather have a broken game that came out and we had to patch it day 1, day 2, day 3 until it was working. My number 9 you just got brought up what was the info they said about my number 9? It's better than nothing quote. I just think that it's like stupid ultimatums like well why can't you just make the game correctly. I imagine it's a hard process I'm not a game designer but I've never been a fan of games that needed a patch and I think I've talked about this before with someone else I feel like game developers maybe not Nintendo but game developers in general feel like they have a lot more leeway now that there's an internet and they can just stream a patch too so the game doesn't necessarily have to be bug free, doesn't necessarily have to be completely done on day 1 and they can just shove it out and say oh well don't worry guys day 1 patch, day 2 patch will have all the problems fixed because if you look back like game cube games unless you somehow had a land hookup and you were one of the few people that did you still weren't going to get a patch for that game that game came out and it was as is so you had to be part finished and there weren't a lot of glitches in them like wind waker was great I don't think that there was that didn't need to be any patching for that game that game was rushed though they rushed it they wouldn't let it get delayed because they rushed it to make it that way I just don't understand why we're given these two things if you're pushing for this game to come out at X and you're hyping everyone up for it if you need to shift teams that are working on other stuff here and I think that the only reason why they didn't do that for Breath of the Wild is because they're frantically running around the office doing stuff for NX of course we know that the delay to 2017 was for NX we're not stupid we're polishing in the game so that it'll be better by 2017 but the game is just about done and we're just waiting for it because it's going to be a Wii U swan song NX launch title type thing polish is the video game equivalent of the term blast processing it doesn't really mean anything it means something completely different it's ridiculous how delays are nowadays with video games sometimes you get them the weight was worth it other times it gets to a point where it just pissed you off to where I'm like no more I've had friends just pissed at like in a movie for Mighty No. 9 and like they were just pissed by the lays and then the outcoming product and they're just like screwed us and I agree well what's talked about that particular case is they did delay it several times and it still turned out that way that was what was so weird about it was like he released that game you know obviously before it was ready to be released and the delays didn't feel justified because the game isn't done so in some of the best parts of the game are DLC for some reason I do miss a time where you know you could pop in a game it sucked and it sucked because the developers clearly didn't know what the heck they were doing Superman 64 exactly no yeah no they clearly didn't know it was crap we had to talk about it was crap imagine Superman 64 nowadays it would have been patched to hell and it was still been crap but you know what back in the day it was just flat out crap they couldn't try to fix it that obviously brings up some of the merits of video game patches and I think there's a point where patches are good on products that are already highly polished as an example there is a glitch in the original Twilight Princess where if you save in the cannon room you lose your save file you can't get out you're stuck damn that's a pretty big glitch there's also a glitch in some of the original cartridges for Majora's Mask where if you save right before the boss in the stone tower temple it deletes your save file what wow it wasn't on every it was just some of the early collectors edition cartridges and I happen to have one of those that's why I know about it and of course I did it to myself twice isn't Majora's Mask a good example of a Zelda game that wasn't delayed but instead rushed and it was rushed to hell Majora's Mask is obviously a very unique situation because it used the same engine the same models everything so we say it's rushed but a lot of the work they spend these years doing on was already done for that game all they had to do was come up with a story and an idea for the most part the game was already being worked on when they switched it over to Majora's Mask because it was supposed to be an expansion for the disc drive and all that fun stuff there was a recent quote where he said that it took him a year to make Clock Town well probably I know the game got made in a year I was mostly made in a year but a lot of the work was just on Clock Town majority of that game is just copying textures just setting up dungeons I know I'm making it sound easier than it really is but for that particular game it was easy for that stuff so it was one of those where and that's the thing that I've always been critical of Nintendo you know what I said in these previous quotes that they like to do something new with every game and that's fine but there's nothing saying you can't have games using the same art style games using the same engine well it's not necessarily just that being the problem like if you look at Metal Gear Solid that all runs on the same engine but that's because they refined the engine through time so the Foxhound engine was being refined over and over and over again whereas Nintendo is kind of like with the Zelda games oh well we finished that game let's throw that engine out the window build a completely new one from scratch build an art style and that's why the games take so long oh they should just hire more people they could but ultimately what the problem is is that they it's basically been a problem under Agenoma where they just scrap everything and start over again it's like why are you doing this you don't have to they were working on the one raker 2 which I would assume was going to use the same engine obviously that got scrapped for Twilight Prince I'm just surprised you think Agenoma would have control over where the game got delayed so when I read that article I read that article about it's like no I'm like really I'm like I've read other developers' reasons for delay what we can say is we can blame him but we can't blame him because it wasn't his decision it was his fault delay but then it wasn't his fault for the lake it's his fault because he didn't make sure his team could get it done in time but then it's not his fault because he's also apparently he's more in a MIA motor role now where he's like approving of everything in the game he's not on the ground floor making it he's described in some of the interviews where like staff were coming to him with stuff and that's not how we describe things in the past so you know I don't think that Agenoma does a lot of personal development anymore in the games I think he does do some dialogue stuff I think he admitted he wrote the dialogue for this game too so he obviously he does stuff but he's not on the ground floor anymore so maybe it's just a whole Shigeru Miyamoto is still there this is his franchise that he founded no matter what he gets final say for better or worse I mean he Shigeru Miyamoto said he gave Agenoma complete freedom with this game but Miyamoto still had the say on if it was going to be delayed and what was weird too is they said that this game was originally put on they made this decision to put it on the NX 2 years ago which is around the time they unveiled this game in the first place so it makes me wonder if they planned it to be like a 2015 Wii U release and then a 2016 NX remastering release like some other companies have done makes me curious if that was the original plan or if they thought the NX was coming out sooner or if they just are really really bad with math and time and don't realize it two years ago they first announced it the Japanese calendar is completely different than ours so that's their excuse I know it's just the whole thing is interesting anyway we ran out of time a long time ago it's really a pork we spent way too much time on that first topic which is not anyways we're going to move into our fan topics and if we have a little time left in the timer we'll hop back to maybe get to my last topic I have here but probably not because we still have the bets to go so I got the timer going 15 minutes talking about some fan topics I'm going to go to Twitter first since Twitter got ignored last time and I'm really apologize to our Twitter followers about that so Pat is going to join he says will Skyward Sword be remade in 4K for the NX no obviously we don't know oh yeah we don't know first off we don't even know if the NX is going to output at 4K we don't even know that much I don't think it will I can see it doing 4K streaming like streaming Netflix in 4K I can see it that beefy enough to actually cause like it's not that beefy to do that it's a little Roku $50 devices and before we started this podcast I showed Alfred that like somebody already took Skyward Sword and like fully HD for like the newest Dolphin emulator so I guess that was done like the day was really so I can easily see it getting emulated if somebody hacks the NX software which I know is probably going to be possible so they can easily just make their own HD version off the NX system it's not a no but then again I don't think we're getting in 4K though the the issue I have with this question we've had a similar question come up before what's going to be the next remake game and I argued with Darren telling him he said Skyward Sword and I said it's not happening the big caveat with Skyward Sword isn't even the 4K it's still the NX support Wii modes because to be honest they said that this was not a Wii or a Wii U replacement it's something entirely new and that means that to me anyways that they want to ditch that Wii brand they're going for a rebranding again and they really need to Wii U is tanked their brand and we died so long ago so my thing is I don't think they're going to support they might support the Pro Controller maybe even game pads for some reason but I do not see them being like you know what you can why don't you bring them on over I would like them to do what Capcom did with the Resident Evil Remaster HD and bring Ocarina of Time 3D to the Wii U and NX I would really enjoy that if I had to choose hey look if I had to choose the remake no no I actually said this before the next HD remake they're going to do is going to be Ocarina of Time yeah so because it's not an HD yet and it's going to it's already proved with the 3D remake it's going to sell and it fits standard controls so if there's a more standard control setup again it makes a lot of sense Skyward Sword's window was this year and they didn't announce it so we're not getting it it looks like Nintendo's putting a lot more faith in Grezzo as a company they're doing that new RPG anyways so I don't think it would be two out of the realm of possibilities to see them go ahead and just take Ocarina of Time and create a completely I don't know if new models new textures for it to complete HD remakes sorry using Final Fantasy terms there I don't see them doing that I see them just like HD the 3D version honestly that's all I see them doing okay so to answer your question Pat Skyward Sword's probably not getting done at all okay on the NX so Liam O'Leary or at Shadow on Twitter he wants to know everyone's favorite and least favorite weapon slash item from the series so Kristen you go first are we talking main series or even like spin off hand hand held titles those aren't spin offs those are part of the main series the hand held titles they're part of the main series this is difficult I'm so insulted you just called I know you always do that that's what Zelda was before Ocarina of Time this is difficult I've been having to play a lot of Ocarina of Time lately and one of my favorite games is the Wind Waker so it's really difficult this is all just for weapon and item favorite weapon or item and least favorite weapon or item favorite and least favorite frick this is gonna be difficult as of right now I don't think I have an all time favorite but as of right now because of the Ocarina of Time possibly I think my favorite weapon right now is the bigger on sword okay okay that's honestly and that's fine that's fine okay what's your least least favorite oh god damn it there's no wait scratch it my favorite item I just thought of it because my Wind Waker is my favorite game no my favorite is the swift sail from HD no because that that helps out so much that's fine what's your least least I don't know we got two favorites so I need a least I don't know least there's been no one I am to truly piss me off that's the problem Alfred save him what's your least favorite item least favorite item you know Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game but I hate the Goron Mask and here's why because one of the ways to get one of the bottles is in that freaking Goron race where you have like that's also part of the way to get the razor sword and I hate that race gave me so much trouble and then I hate the boss of Snow Head Temple because it's another it's like exactly like that race and I love that boss I love the fact I love the item it's great for going around places fast but the way it's used I hate it what's your favorite favorite item is between okay it's not between anything I really like the Rocks Feather from Four Swords Adventures because that's like one of the first times we got to jump in the Zelda game and it was used pretty well but I liked how it was used I said the Rocks Feather in general is one of my favorite items because it allowed us to jump it allowed us to get to places that we couldn't get even though there were still some really weird restrictions like you couldn't jump over certain ledges whatever but it was used pretty well in the game and I thoroughly enjoyed it and I think it was a great item for you know the top down Zelda game sure my favorite item would be well you know what, let's go with the least favorite because I'm in a unique situation I've played Breath of the Wild and there's not really a lot of items I dislike in Zelda there's ones that I wish had more uses Ball and G but the thing is I actually like those items, I just wish they did more with them so I keep thinking what items are knowing me, what items don't I like and to be honest I think tree branch sticks in Breath of the Wild not because I'm like, I'm glad they exist because it makes the world more believable, it makes sense you hit a tree, sticks are going to fall that's what happens when I go outside well I hit it with my body, I hit it with my body I just fall on the ground the tree takes me out I'm just imagining you rolling into a tree but like it's so useless it breaks after like one or two swings it does like no damage to anything yes, you can light it on fire which again you can use it like a torch so you can light enemies on fire you can light grass on fire so it has a use but so does every other wood item in the game and all the other wood items hold fire the longest who knew a torch is actually better at holding fire than a stick that burns up right away now I just realized when it comes to useless I think my least favorite item is Saria's Ocarina from Ocarina of Time because how useless it pretty much becomes after you get the Ocarina of Time that's sad, that's such an emotional item I know, it's such an emotional item but then it's also the most pointless item you bastard it is, it's like okay you keep changing your item the more we talk so let me get through my, so that's my least favorite so far just because functionality wise there's things that do it all better and it'd be different if like you had to pick up the stick and it had to be your first weapon like okay I get it because how that game works but it's not there's an axe you can go pick up you don't have to use that right away so that's my least favorite just in terms of functionality I like that it's in the game but I don't really I think it's pointless, I think you should be able to use it as Firewood, that would have made more sense to me my favorite item, this is hard because the cop out is saying the fierce deity mask yeah, that's what I had to refrain from saying you become a badass you get the ultimate laser shooting sword, yada yada yada you know obviously like a master sword or a healing shield those are all to me those feel like cop outs because those are the obvious answers where? even the razor sword, just how cool it looks it feels like a cop out I know what your favorite item is the great fairy mask no my favorite item is what are those I think it's a menish cap you can dig into the ground the digging myths the digging claws I think they've been in multiple games two different games whatever that item is called it's my favorite item and I can't remember it that whole mechanic and the use of those I loved it, that was one of my favorite moments in a top down zone they're called the mole myths the mole myths, yeah those are so cool yeah that's probably my favorite I mean I I'm just thinking through all the items in the series there's so many good ones, so many magic ones I love but man I just love what the mole myths do it's amazing so that's my favorite so I think that's all of us so we'll see how many more tops we can get we got four minutes on the clock here so Jake T. Apidaka from our twitter Link's Awakening Nostalgia and the idea of a remake with the Marin DLC coming out it sounds like that would be a good topic to talk about didn't we already talk about remakes already we did, we did a little bit I mean the question wasn't about remakes it was about one game I mean know me wrong don't be wrong, Marin looks pretty badass and legends Marin looks amazing I love that the windfish is in that game she kicks you both a bell oh yeah the Link's Awakening Nostalgia is awesome because Link's Awakening is I think Link's Awakening is actually my favorite handheld game thinking of my ranked games I can get behind that it's so amazing you can jump in the game obviously you can jump in Zelda 2 Zelda 2 is the first game to have jump Link's Awakening for top down games I had to bring that up again after your previous game it's okay, I completely forgot that item was in there's actually been two prior Zelda games before that you could jump in and both of those happen to be among my favorite games I completely forgot it was in those games if Breath of the Wild jumps up into my top 3 it's because you can jump people I just noticed that Zelda 2 is my favorite, Link's Awakening is number 2 so they both can jump they answered the question I wouldn't mind saying Link's Awakening HD for 3DS the whole idea Link's Awakening a remake what kind of remake are we talking about into a full 3D game that's a whole topic on its own should we remaster 2D Zelda games into a 3D world everything in those games is designed to be top down those puzzles don't necessarily translate into a 3D world so they don't have to be so much redone it might not even feel like Link's Awakening it would probably end up looking something like a link between worlds a link between worlds that's what I was thinking and then I'm like do I really want it they gave us Link's Awakening DX so they already technically remade it one time to give it color, they added a new dungeon to it fixed a few bugs so they kind of already made it once I wouldn't mind seeing it maybe one more time and having things smoothed out but I don't really want the art style to change like to me a link between worlds well it is the world of a link to the past the art style doesn't feel the same to me so I almost wouldn't even want a link to the past remade in that style so Link's Awakening if they could smooth out everything but have it be the same art direction that would be amazing to me and that art direction can't be that difficult since it's Mario so it really shouldn't be that hard to maintain that Nintendo makes a lot of Mario games I think they know what they're doing I'm just worried that were they to remake that first off I don't think that they would if they remade a top down game it would be a link to the past but I'd like to see a more updated version like Unate and that could be a possibility with Maren in Hyrule Warriors Legends, Hyrule Warriors I'm just worried that they would make it too much like a link between worlds because that seems to be their go to style for top down Zelda games now like Triforce Heroes looks like it how would you like to see it I'll get into that another day but I don't really think it's a go to style well I mean for the past two handheld Zelda games it's been there's a reason that Triforce Heroes isn't that way there's actually an interview that states that the link between worlds was actually not the original art style but we can get more into that later because one of the topics that I wanted to talk about today had to do with multiplayer Zelda games but we will get into that next time that'll be our lead topic I'll jot that down right now unless we get blasted with big news that'll be our lead topic so the time is just about to go out I just want to see answer a couple things here that I see on our Facebook page quick like Joshua Copeland he asked when will Nintendo reveal the NX yeah there's sources saying fall so think like think September through November somewhere in there I'd say probably August August in November I'd say November Nintendo literally said fall and August is part of summer so September is the start of fall so September October somewhere in there I don't think they're going to do it in November because there's like Black Friday and too much other crazy stuff going on but I can see them going hardcore with that stuff in September and October to get it out of the way so they can advertise the few holiday games they do have such as Pokemon yeah sure Ben Williams he wanted us to talk about NX specs there's nothing to talk about the last thing we heard was that it was going to probably be as powerful as like the Xbox One but that's really it well the last thing we heard is that Nintendo doesn't care about specs so and we talked about that last week so we don't really have anything to add to the Nintendo spec talk until we get new information and right now we don't have any new information we don't even have new rumors we have nothing new to go off of let's come up with some new rumors yeah we make up our own so this kind of goes along with the Hyrule Warriors think quick we'll just kind of mention this in there Stacey Lynn says let's talk about Marin having the power to drop magical whales on people and Hyrule Warriors and how that is the greatest power ever by the way it's not just any magical whale it's the Great Wind Fish it's the Great Wind Fish it is probably the most important whale in the series I mean there's one of Skyward Sword there's speculation that those are the same whales but big whale it is awesome it is probably one of the coolest powers I've seen and Hyrule Warriors has so many good ones I like how Lincoln has also become Bruce Lee a weapon yep and just to shout out to Mitra Code because of my little post on Facebook asking for stuff he discovered the podcast for his first time today so awesome thanks man we're hoping to gain new fans every week every day enjoy so we get to move on to the final part the betting results so if you guys don't care about the bets you can tune out right now this is all it is to the end of the podcast for those who are interested who don't know about it could you explain it to me okay so alright Alfred it's on you this is all part of it when we were going to do the pre E3 podcast Nate and I decided to come up with a few bets that may or may not happen things that may or may not happen during E3 and we gave them to Rabbi Luigi or Darren had them say yes or no and based on their answers that was what was going to be judged on to be fair Nate didn't really give me a lot of parameters for bets so some of the questions may or may not be a little crazy or a little too easy but I think that I did a good job it's okay I did a very good job I was very surprised actually but we're not into the results yet so obviously it wouldn't be a bet if there was mistakes so for those who don't know if I lose I have to dress up as tingle and act like tingle on an episode of the boss man and the funny thing is is that tingle is like a 30 year old guy thinks he's a fairy I turn 30 in like a week and tingle is one of my favorite characters in the game so I kind of already am him so this is going to be very I think it's going to be bad if I lose if Alfred loses he has to also dress up as tingle and remember this is as much as you know we say as much as you reasonably can I don't expect either one of us to go out and spend a lot of money on guys so either way I'm grabbing a bag although Darren did say if I lost he would buy me green tights so that's scary anyways I was really hoping not to get away with the tights because I don't have green tights but so whoever loses I win so I get to sit in a bag of popcorn going I don't know me and green tights might not be a win for anyone anyways if Alfred loses he's got to dress up as tingle and record a video of himself saying kulu limpa someone splashes his face like either way he gets off the easiest what the heck I was the one that put up the vet first so of course he came at me harder and harder the point of thing is I have I hope this ends in a tie alright let's get to the results here so for those who don't know if someone got a question right that is one point for the person who asked the question if they got it wrong that is one point for the opponent so we'll start off because Alfred asked the first question he said and he asked rabid luigi will nintendo say look forward for more exciting content in months to come oh that was a kitty are you kidding me here's the thing rabid luigi said yes so I would say I was at E3 so I didn't get to watch all the coverage so the last three days I went back and watched all of it and they didn't say it at all they did not say it damn I thought that this is the key I really needed to give this one wrong I thought for sure they said it I'm like they had to have said it at some point but you know why because they didn't keep reggie on it reggie is the one who always did but he didn't say it so we started off the first question asked that's a point for me one nothing and in the video I'll put up a little score counter so people can keep track a little easier than me always having to remind you so then my question I asked I asked rabid luigi will nintendo unveil a new game during their live stream I hate you so much he said no I thought it was going to be a yes but he said no are you kidding me what do you think that answer is that's right the point goes to me I confirmed it like a week before by the way we are still showing other games during our presentation they actually didn't say new games though what was the new game what was the new game alfred it was that rpg by grezzo or mario party island whatever the new mario party game is star rush star rush now it came out like the same day so I would count it that is a point for alfred alright so we are tied up one one alright so alfred he asked darin will nintendo announce the date of their next nintendo direct obviously a silly question darin said no that was 100% correct that is now two points alfred one for me very upset are you kidding me right now look how much you are showing right now oh you want another direct or a so here is a cool one that I won on a technicality oh I asked darin will nintendo say open world over under 15 times nintendo did say open world like twice they reworded open world to open air because they don't want to be associated with open world games so because and they said open air I lost count after like 17 but it doesn't matter because I said open world and nintendo decided not to do it I thought that was a for sure loss that became a victory for me thank you darin because they only said it twice alright very lucky on that one even with the open air I thought they still said it more often than they did but they really stuck to that open air so this is one that we might have a little debate about this is a question from alfred that he asked to rabid luigi and it had three possible answers said will square enix show off final fantasy 7 sony or will both of them rabid luigi said both now this is one that I want to have a further conversation because technically square enix didn't have a press conference so they had a live stream event like nintendo and of course in a live stream event they're going to show it off they were there all of e3 streaming so they didn't show it off they showed off the demo the same demo they had on the show floor but he said both so I'd lose that one yeah it's one of those that I think it's a loss just because square enix didn't have a press conference so I mean like they still showed it off during e3 but if sony didn't show it off then I'd lose because he said both and they did not show off surprisingly any new I thought for sure they were going to do that they had two sony's credit they had some other big analysis the close thing to a 7 they did actually show it was right there you know there was a technic how did square enix showed it off they really was in a press conference but sony didn't so that is point for Nate I'm now in the lead 3 to 2 this is intense I know this is a lot tighter I think than elfer thought it was going to be yeah alright so this one I asked rabid luigi will there be over under 250 posts made at zelden farmer between Tuesday and Thursday during e3 rabid luigi said under he was correct there was 228 and that counts the posts I made so I'm even breaking my own rules and counting my posts in just because I didn't want to eliminate them because it was under that's a victory for Nate scores 4 2 it's turned into a slaughter alfred I know it is it's okay here's where you're going to get one back here's where it's coming this is probably the stupid well no this is the second stupidest question he asked do you think the reception for zelda you will be positive or negative and he clarified that this is from the media not from fans cause you know I could argue gender stuff is negative I guess but yes Darren Darren said positive the awards are still piling up for the game so that is correct like almost every major outlet gave zelda some sort of award for being awesome pretty much the majority has been game of the show and coolest booth and if it didn't get game of the show or if it didn't get coolest booth cause mafia 3 also had a really awesome booth it was still like right there at the top number 2 if it didn't get number 1 alright so now the score is alfred 3, Nate 4 it's not like it helps me any you're still in the lead yeah but only by 1 if you tie who knows alright this one bit me in the butt this one I'm upset about if this is the one I think it is then yeah I asked Darren if if Aisha Tyler would sit in the crowd doing the Ubisoft press conference I thought for sure she did she's done it in half the other one she's been in she did not she sat on stage several times Aisha Tyler you screwed me cause Darren said yes we are tied yeah you should have made it to where like you said other people were helping I should have said is she gonna sit down I knew she was gonna sit down but I sat in the crowd you'll remember that for next year just say that the problem is she does something different yeah she does but half of her appearances in the past I should have just went with the general sit down especially with how the questions were going up to this point but I didn't I stuck to my guns cause that was originally what I wrote down so we are tied this sucks we are totally tied this next question was the stupidest one it was voted out fans did vote this question out it doesn't matter either way you're getting the point here ok so the original question was do you think that Half Life 3 will be announced as an ex-exclusive he asked Darren that Darren said no obviously Half Life 3 wasn't even announced so it was obviously not an ex-exclusive it was a guaranteed point question and I thought it was cheating even though we didn't have any rules to say it was cheating so it really wasn't but the fans literally voted it out it was a pretty heavy against that's a bullshit question I'm sorry it's Half Life 3 it was a stupid it's one thing for him to say do you think Half Life 3 will be announced but an ex-exclusive that's the part they got to be fair I did ask Nate can I have a stupid question it didn't break the rules I just couldn't believe he had the balls to even run that question to the table however this is what he replaced it with the substitute question was do you think that Nintendo is going to talk more or mention the newer rules for Miyamoto or Reggie he said no he was correct I made sure I went through to see the introductions because the only really hope I had was that it was going to pop up on the screen never popped up on the screen no surprise because right now as we're recording those positions don't exist yet they're being voted on right now I didn't know that when I made that question so it was almost I allow that one or I allow Half Life 3 so I mean I took a shot at that point Alfred is now in the lead 5-4 oh boy this is so intense alright so I asked will Sony announce a PlayStation Slim edition at E3 he said yes I understand why he said yes we knew Xbox was doing it maybe Sony is something to respond that was a no the closest thing to good firm was like yeah we have it but we're not showing anything right now so about that crush he now is doing Alfred is now up 6-4 so I can hold for a tie at this point one more wrong one more point for him it's over it's all over the fat lady sings but let's get to your last question well Sony's project with Kojima Productions be a new or spiritual successor he said completely new he went back and forth it's gonna be completely new and it's gonna be a successor but we settled on he said completely new alright so here's the question with this one I went back and watched the reveal it was revealed everyone saw it Norman Reedus that's pretty much all we know about it um I don't think we actually know if it's completely new he did say he did say before the trailer started that it was remade for you what he said later on in an interview was that when he made Metal Gear Solid there wasn't such a thing as a stealth action game and then later on in the interview he said and just like with Metal Gear Solid I'm looking to redefine video games and Death Stranding I don't remember what he called it is a completely new video game genre that you've never seen before so at that point I think it would be considered a new game well it was always a new game we always knew it was a new game the only reason I'm arguing this one the only reason I'm arguing this one is because we didn't see the game it's not a teaser we don't know what this game is this genre didn't exist it doesn't mean that it's not inspired by it that's my counter argument because I went through I watched the press conference I didn't know about that interview that's obviously some new information but still no one knows what this game is so how can we say what it is unless he specifically came out and he was like it does not have any inspiration from Metal Gear Solid at all that's my argument this is a big point I need this point so I'm going to argue this till games radar he said we finally know what Hideo Kojima's new game is called Death Stranding that it will star a space prisoner played by Norman Reedus and that it's very close to entering full production yep he's a prisoner yeah but the problem is and this is where I could see Nate kind of looking at it and being like he said it will feel very familiar but after an hour or two of playing you will start to feel something different something new that you haven't played the story is about connections what you call strands in psychology and how people are connected yeah so my problem is that one we didn't see the game so we're going off interviews two in the interviews he even admitted it's going to feel familiar even though it's got new concepts obviously I mean it's not going to be literally Metal Gear Solid I don't think either one of us thought that was the case no because you can't I mean he could but it was never going to be literally Metal Gear Solid that's my thing I don't think we know enough to give anything for this if that makes sense we just don't know enough I'm okay with tossing that question out then well here's the problem with the toss out on that technically I mean it's incorrect and I get a point yeah so I didn't want to make this decision because it benefits me and obviously I really need this point but I was like man I went through all this stuff and I'm like I just don't know what this is I no one can tell me what this is because nobody knows I wish they would have shown an actual gameplay with it that would have really helped because if it showed some stealth I would have gone Metal Gear Solid inspired or it didn't and it just showed stuff I've never seen in my life okay then not it's just I don't know what to say Kojima doesn't know what to say that bastard Kojima has always been cryptic about his game he's so cryptic about everything that's what makes his games get so hyped see here's the problem because I'm reading the wired interview so it's a multiplayer game it's not so simple it's a new system oh no I remember I read GameSpot's interview with him and now he's telling oh it's kind of like action RPG I'm like okay then what about those other interviews I heard where you don't really know the genre make up your mind that's what I'm saying he is so cryptic I just I can't base it I feel like I just can't base it on what he said because I don't know what he's talking about oh I can be like okay we got a little tease here's something that can kind of answer that and this is the best thing that I can give you it says is it liberating being separated from Metal Gear not having to make another one or are you sad you can't make another he replied at Konami I had ideas for other games but Metal Gear was the priority however being able to work on something new is a nice feeling yeah that doesn't matter I think it's the closest he's just not tied to the Metal Gear franchise anymore doesn't mean he's not gonna be inspired by it we haven't seen him make it how do we know he's not just gonna be inspired how do we know he's just not gonna take the mechanics that he's done in Metal Gear what Breath of the Wild is just something totally different we've never seen before but the problem is we can't say that all things that Kojima has made have been the same well in terms of the way that the games have played because if you look at PT of course we never got to see fully what PT was gonna become again that's Capcom being Dex yeah it clearly didn't look like it was gonna be like Metal Gear but you know it's gonna look familiar or feel familiar okay are you dropping I'm really torn I don't think we know enough about it that's my argument but Alfred has to make the decision I would say it's new I say yes it's new of course you do you're not involved in the battle no I'm not trying to take side that's why I'm putting it on Alfred because I'm really clawing for this point I'm not trying to act desperate because I don't know what this game is so I literally have no idea I wrote wrong right question mark that's what I have written in my document because I can't make a call on it this sucks it's not definitive and I can't make a call pisses me off and it's like I'm pretty sure like I have written here like I'm confident that it's probably completely new but I don't know that it is I can't look at you in the face of it it's not like that next thing you know we're gonna get a gameplay reveal a year from now and it's gonna look like Metal Gear with Norman Reedus in space I don't know like he's why does he gotta be so damn cryptic try reading his tweets it's the exact same thing it's so bad like it's so cryptic that I'm like as stuff getting lost in translation what is going on I don't know this is why I have to leave it up to you because it was your question see guys don't have like a and I know like you you're thinking completely you're like me I think it's going to be completely new I don't think I can definitively say that based on what we got and there's my problem is if I give it to you then that means that I was wrong with it being completely new but then like you said it means that it would be the any of the other questions like say um there's always a third answer to everything like when I did over under 250 posts if there was 250 posts made I was wrong you would have got the point for that so like there's always that third answer that you can't actually say you don't think it's going to happen and I think that's kind of where this falls into where we don't know if it's completely new or we don't know that's why I was like I want to give the point but then I don't know I can't tell you what this game is I don't know that's where I'm stuck I made my argument I guess it's up to you this was our betting special there's two things we could do and it would only prolong this for one of them is we could have people vote on it people vote on it and then come back and say hey yeah it looks like a completely new game just so we can do a prolong this betting special but based on how much they love me it would probably go in your favor um but then there's we could always just toss it out or give us both a point I mean I don't like both the point thing because that means the question didn't matter okay so here's what happens then regardless of what so if I give you this point then you're still going to be one point behind me and so that leads you up that leads you up to a tie and so I mean that's the best I can hope for yeah if we end up tying then we have to do something else okay yeah there's more to go so yeah I will give it to you on uncertainty as reluctantly as I possibly can yeah oh my god I can't wait to see how people debate this betting special in the comments so I'm gonna go ahead and give that to you it's locked in on uncertainty even though he says it's probably new there's too much uncertainty kojima stop whatever I love kojima man I guess thank you kojima for being the way you are I would have never had a shot at this point if you were um anyways my argument sank in that's a big relief for me I'm telling you I was like the whole game right there oh my god my heart was beating but the final question then I had it was for Darren it said will there be over or under six brand new game reveals between the Sony and Microsoft press conference Darren answered over I thought he was an idiot he was so wrong yeah there was way over I stopped counting at 8 I know there was more than 8 it was crazy and obviously it didn't include indie titles like this was just triple A games there were so many reviews I didn't even consider I forgot one of your questions one reveal I wasn't even thinking about that like oh man but hey you know what he got it right that's all that matters that means we are tied the first ever betting special gets to go into the impossible to perceive beforehand based on Alfred's bullshit question and thanks to kojima's cryptic and thanks to all the answers I thought were correct being wrong and Darren and rabbit the Ouija going with the ones that were right for me so thank you for that I got a lot more right than I thought I did that's why I thought I was toast I wasn't worried if I got two or three points from you because I thought I had five wrongs you guys don't have like a tiebreaker or anything oh we do okay so that means we get to go into tiebreaker territory we're not going to do it on this week's episode but just cause we are way out of time right now so next week we'll come back with a tiebreaker we'll get it right out of the way first segment we'll go a quick 15 minute segment on a tiebreaker and here's the big thing that I did mention what would happen if we had a tiebreaker happening the stakes would be risen more punishment in addition to the original punishment there is new punishments to go with it and I have more time to be more intelligent so I have to think a bit more but I didn't think this was going to be a tie going in when I was tallying this today I mean we can still take that point for the Kojima question and give it to me then you can just lose it's already locked in so we'll be back next week getting the whatever we decide is going to be the tiebreaker what's going to be some more bets what if we just have to flip a coin one on one overwatch one on one overwatch we'll find a way we'll live stream some tiebreaker I know we both have it on PC God you're going to destroy me because I barely even play overwatch unless someone we can get an opposite teams and then my team beats you that's just luck though well that's what I rely to win technicalities you rely on technicalities I do rely on technicalities alright that's going to do it for this week because I'm so out of the pockets join us next week to see the end of the betting special and how and who's going to be doing what that involves scary tingleness obviously we have a couple cool topics already lined up for next week including talking about multiplayer games and the fact that AJNummer wants to make more of them so we'll get to talk more about good stuff I want to thank Kristen for joining us this week I'm sure he's going to be on future podcast because he likes talking yes I do alright you guys want to toss out your twitter handles quick I do not have I do not have a twitter handle but if you do want to catch me you can catch me of course on zelda informer or future podcast and also me and my bird do youtube channel super reaction bros it's a reaction video series where we react to trailers video games all that stuff and we just finished posting up our reactions to things like breath for the wild and all the press conferences so check that out it's youtube.com slash super reaction bros and yes go somewhere else for years all the time exactly I'm just kidding what's up Alfred and I'm at full metal alfie pretty much exactly how you think it's about I don't even follow you yet I don't think you do either I better go fix that feel bad you're my co-host and I don't I don't know what's going on in your life man a lot of stuff we do follow each other I must have followed you out of my suggestions I post stuff about things I just want to be able to go none of our twitter handles are associated with the websites so we might post stuff from the sites there that represents anything to do with Zeldin former as an example he retweeted Hideo Kojima obviously that's got nothing to do with Zeldin former now I'm going to send a very upset tweet to him now stop being so cryptic you bastard you could just leave it at completely new you had to say it's going to feel familiar anyways thank you guys for watching I'm at Nate Jance by the way if you guys don't know N-A-T-E-J-A-N-C maybe I'll throw the twitter handles in the video this time I have no idea it's been great it's been fun sorry about this extra long cast we had a lot to go over catch you guys in the flip later adios