 All right Let's try to finish this part 3 you can sell on Liberty episode 81417 This will be 417. Okay. Let's continue on. I'll try to be quicker this time for part 3. Hopefully the final part my you know Family album and recordings of discussions with it. Are you entitled to all communication everywhere? No, and you're like a fascist loony if you think the answer is yes Well, does that mean that people can yeah, and no one believes that not the straw man I have the exclusive right to decide what is done With information that they have in their possession Yeah, yes, does that mean that they own it by definition? Yeah No, does that change if they release it in the public? Well, yeah weirdly Because now you didn't they choose to put it out in a place where other people can you know as soon as other people can see it Correct capable of copying it. That's all gonna happen. Correct. Good point So the like the short-hand hand answer to do you believe an intellectual property is No, because of what that question usually means But you have to have enough of an understanding of where these things came from to be able to back up and say Yeah, but what does it mean because well, it's not whether you believe in intellectual property, you know IP law exists It's whether you think it's a just law and where they came from is as I've explained many times and others have explained a patents come from government grants of monopoly privilege to protect people from competition and Copyrights come from the desire to prevent people from publishing things that the people in charge didn't want published So it's literally State-controlled legalized censorship. So that's where patent copyright came from. That's why they're wrong Because yeah, I damn have the exclusive right to decide what is done with a song that I wrote and is right here And I haven't told anybody else. They're allowed to hear it. Correct. That's perfectly justified. Nobody nobody's entitled to that Well, that's ownership. That's the definition of ownership. Yeah, by the way, let's suppose you're some very smart nuclear scientist and In your retirement all of a sudden one day you realize the solution to I don't know quantum gravity or How to do nuclear fusion? You don't have to tell anyone You can go to your grave with that information But if I if you told me that and you you could you could make me believe that you that you had the information But you refused to share it because you're a curmudgeon and you just want the world to go into to go to hell I would I would criticize you morally for being a bad person even though you have the right not to tell anyone Okay Just as an example. Just so the point is just because you have information you have the right to keep secret Doesn't mean that's not criticizable. Now. I'm not criticizing someone for not releasing a song or a book that they have What I am criticizing is libertarians who's whose goal Presumably is to spread liberty Not trying to do it in a widespread basis and limiting it to a select audience Now for movies, it may be a little bit different. There's a mixture of motives there and that's perfectly fine But the point is as I've said many times here Simply saying someone you think someone's a jerk for not for intentionally Restricting the spread of their ideas on liberty which they think are important I think you can make that criticism But it doesn't mean that I'm a commie and it doesn't mean I'm denying your right to do that Or that you have an obligation To release your book in a free PDF doesn't mean you have an obligation But if I have the exclusive right to decide what's done with it So in that case, would you call it intellectual property? No, I wouldn't that's well because I define things and I've defined it many times But you you guys don't define anything so you've never really defined what intellectual property is Like you can call it that if you want But if you don't know how to think in these concepts and you don't know how to think from first principles like the First principle of self-ownership Then you start arguing stupid stuff that doesn't make any sense And so I had a debate Patrick Smith hosted Steven Kinsella Steven About intellectual property and at one point he decided I would be the bad guy if I made something it had nothing to do with the movie It was about a book or music. I don't remember which if I put it behind a paywall then I'm the bad guy Well, that's not what I said you said that people are jerks or poop heads For copying public information, which is us which is an unsupported claim So I simply said, you know if you're a libertarian out to spread the message and you have these libertarian books And you're you're actually not trying to make it widely available so that you spread these ideas of liberty, you know You're not being a good libertarian That's my view. Sorry And that was sort of like whoa, that's that's weird entitlement mentality commie think which I did not really expect It's not entitlement no one's entitled to it. It's not commie think Because it's not a property rights Believe it's simply saying I admire libertarians who put their stuff out there for free like Hans-Herman Hoppe does I do as I mentioned in our discussion Keith Knight did that with his recent book on volunteerism I admire when people do that when they bend over a little bit backwards to make their ideas a little bit more accessible to people I think that's good to us to spread true ideas about liberty to a wider and wider audience And also so it is available to poor people in other countries For somebody to say well as soon as it's out there You have no enforcement power and you have no right to use violence against people spreading it all over because they didn't agree to anything And you're not losing anything directly and that's what you say That's all that means is you're saying that IP laws unjust That's what it means to say you shouldn't use force against people which you say you agree with so you you agree with Exactly the words you I guess are putting into my mouth right now and say well it Hurts sales and stuff and you can you know debate that if you feel like it I don't think I have the right to use force on anybody once it gets out there But the idea that I'm the bad guy for creating something and then having it behind a paywall is Really weird and it is the opposite of understanding self-ownership then no it's not Having an opinion about someone's actions that are private rightful actions doesn't mean you deny self-ownership That's just ridiculous notion that other people are entitled to something I created No one said that that's a straw man. No one said they're entitled to it and this is true of anybody else That's just a weird completely turning the concept on his head and now suddenly I Don't own myself what I produce other people are entitled to which is no one all the way completely backwards From the principle that is the foundation for saying I don't have the right to punch somebody out for copying my song without my Permission once it's out in the ether. You don't have the right to punch someone for copying your song Without your permission even if it's not public yet, right? You don't have the right to punch people if they violate a contract So it's it's really weird watching people forget where principles came from and then clinging to the principle itself that isn't even a description of a symptom of the actual principle But if you get that wrong like gravity says things go down and then you see something go up then your brain explodes Because you don't really know what you were talking about to begin with So I'm sure there'll be plenty of bitter people mad about the fact that yeah, we're Not gonna make it easy for people to copy this without Our permission and without paying for it And by the way, I have no problem with you putting up a paywall for your movie at least in the for the first year Or whatever you whatever whatever works for you nothing wrong with that at all because this is a thing You're doing partly for profit The problem is sending DMCA takedown notices to Google to YouTube and in Odyssey using Copyright threats basically against innocent private companies and their users. It's gonna be anyway people are gonna torn it anyway We're not gonna like call out a hit on people or beat people up But you did call out a hit But by sending a DMC takedown notice cuz that would be unjustified But when people get into this weird entitlement mentality mode as if oh, how dare you not give me what you made for free It's just okay. Call me much like we didn't have to give it to anybody at any price And we wanted to create this and we'd also like to make money off of it and Ironically and here's a thing that I mean it's been mentioned a million times But I'll end here by mentioning it again the people in the freedom movement who think they're being Courageous uber anarchists by intentionally copying it, you know without our blessing and spreading it all over the place You are doing what those in power most want to have happened which is to have independent pro-freedom content not be worth making Because a lot of people when you have to pay a bunch of money and put in a bunch of time and effort to make something happen Like I also want to actually make money off of it I did another video about the weird thing of people being resentful of someone successful But if people can't even break even or can't even get paid for their time. They're just not gonna make this stuff and So the thing that most helps government is if anyone trying to make pro-freedom content whether it's movies or whatever Can't make any money doing it and so They're only gonna pile in their time and effort if they happen to have enough money from some other source that they don't have to care about that Okay, some people do that they get a donor who's willing to subsidize something. This is how lots of Educational and charitable groups operate I wrote I wrote my books and my articles I'm sure you've written a lot of things even though you didn't get paid or get paid much for it Lots of things are done and written even though there's no way to get paid for it Right and if you're if you agree that there can't be copyright in a just world And if you would also agree that you can't use this some kind of contractual system to really keep the genie in the bottle Because you can't really impose onerous contracts on all of your paying customers They're not gonna sign it if it's got a big big penalty clause And if it doesn't have a big penalty clause, it's not going to do any good. It's going to leak So that means you're in the world you and I both want to live in with no copyright your business model Has to depend on some creative kind of business model or charity or donations Okay, try to make that work But then you have to exhort people to do it Instead of running around calling people to get a free copy that you enabled to be online publicly Calling them poop heads and jerks But you're making there be an obstacle so all these people who think they're being super duper pro freedom by spreading it around Like without our blessing without the blessing of the people who actually made the thing Your why should they get your blessing if they find a copy that's online. They have no contract Why do they need your blessing? You don't have the right to withhold your blessing And how long would this blessing last? The same as copyright term 140 years or something like that. So 15 years from now when you're Not even involved in this anymore and you've already either made your money or lost money But it's long and gone should they pretend like it's still under copyright and still not Copy it without paying a fee to someone or without your quote blessing Or or if you died so they have to go find your heirs because after all They need a royalty stream that you can count on to incentivize you retroactively back in time How long does this last this this obligation to kick in a few bucks whatever the Why it's a few bucks. I don't know. I don't know where you got that number from Just being a giant anchor that's gonna All it's gonna accomplish Is drag back any incentive for people to put in the time and effort to make like really Substantive stuff because I can battle in front of a video in front of a camera for almost nothing and whoop Do you do have somebody copies that notice? I have 80 gazillion youtube videos. They're all free I don't try to copyright right and you did them even though you're not expecting money So you just said no one's gonna do anything if they don't get money. That's not true. I don't do anything To try to protect it. I expected to get spread all over the place because there's no big loss It doesn't take a hell of a lot of time and effort like I don't get paid for this Whoop, they do every once in a while somebody donates It's actually if if anybody's wondering why I made so many videos recently. There's one person There's one person who's been donating a chunk every time I make a video. That's why I made a bunch um and The 99.9 percent of people who view my videos never do anything Which is fine. You're not obligated to and I'm not obligated to make videos And I don't know why it should be difficult for people to understand both of them You're not obligated to me anything Yes, people are not obligated to donate money to you. They're not obligated to give the charity Although it's generally good and commendable when they do. They're also not obligated to kick a few bucks and to buy a hbo subscription Instead of getting a free copy of anarchists on a torrent And you're not obligated to make this content and you're not obligated to release it for free Everyone agrees with that I'm not obligated to give you anything. I want to make these videos I want to get them out there when I'm in a position to be able to do that I do it a bunch and if somebody else gives me a financial incentive to do it. I do it even more Because it helps me out and it frees me up from having to do other things to make money, but it's It's just weird how many pro-freedom people Don't know how to think from first principles And so they end up being cheerleaders for something that's a detriment To the attempt to the to get the message out there And think they're being already like these people almost never produce Stuff they're not the ones out there investing time and effort and money into actually creating something Because then they'd say yeah, even if I don't like to punch you out. I hope people would like appreciate This enough to pay like 10 bucks for the movie like whoop-de-doo. That isn't that much Not for people in the west It's a pay and if you think you're horribly oppressed because We ask that people pay that in order to see the movie then don't watch it like Or watch it by pirating it You're not being oppressed by not seeing something you didn't make And yeah, you'll be able to torn it from somewhere. I'm sure that it's already out there anyway But this weird twisted thing that happens because people Forget where they started with the concept of self-ownership And wander into these things which ironically turn into literally a condemnation of self-ownership How do you limit who can see what you produced? Okay You need a refresher course in the concept of self-ownership because that's the foundation of it So anyway, I'll stop ranting about that and uh And you know on the practical side of it That's why bands do tours because like, okay You know, yeah, you can tour this metallica album But you can't very well make there be a metallica concert with them in person in your living room So they'll do that and make money from that Correct. So the temporary 30 40 year business model of selling CDs and audio cassettes and atrex and lps Because there was no easy way to copy all this so you could sell your media And because copyright monopoly prevented knockoffs They could make lots of money and now that business model is dissipating because of the information age So they've had to change their business models a little bit rely a little bit more on touring So this is the point you have to Adjust to the current times and you have to find a business model that works If you can't find a business model that works Well, then it's not going to work Whose fault is that that's the fault of liberty or technology or just changing times. It's not the fault of someone who is Getting a pirated a pirated movie off of torrents Because you can't really fake a live physical event happening And So one of the things we do is do screenings in the movie with the director and us there and add an actual theater and all that um Because that's a fun cool event And it's something that like weirdly we actually encourage people to like if you later There'll be a dvd, but if you buy the movie and have friends over and watch it like fine It's not like we expect everyone to pay for it. Well, what are the terms then? because in copyright You can do that only for a home viewing audience if you have too many people Then it's a copyright infringement. I think some of the There have been a cease and desist letters against people having these NFL Super Bowl parties if they have too many people at their house Okay, so are your terms the same? If not, then what if I buy a copy for ten dollars and a show at a movie theater for 500 people Are you okay with that? What's what do I have your blessing? What's I mean? How do we know? There's no contract even though you keep talking about contracts Like you pay for you have it you can show it to whoever you want stuff like with our blessing I mean isn't uploading it to the internet showing it to whoever I want. I'm showing it to the whole world Okay, my audience is now eight billion people What where's the limit and of course people will spread it all over the place without our blessing too And we're not gonna like I said Set out a hit on anybody for doing that But uh, it's but you did You if I'm if my assumption is correct if this is why people are complaining You got uh the movies taken down off of odyssey And you too by sending a season sending a DMCA takedown letter, which is a copyright demand So that is a hit Just it's weird to watch people's brains make excuses to do whatever they want Instead of actually starting with the first principles and then building up what should I do Based on the foundational premise like like you guys must feel that Um You need to prevent as many unauthorized Pirated copies at least on the big platforms like youtube and odyssey and stuff To make your business model work. So you feel like you need to do that So but then you get criticized because it's unlawful and now you're making excuses for it By attacking other people for not having first principles or some convoluted argument. I see Instead of what can I get away with doing and then retroactively make an excuse for Which is what cops do all the time. It's what politicians do all the time It's a little bit sad to watch people who send DMC takedown notices I'm entitled to this thing. I didn't make and here's my weird mangled justification for why It's like no the fact that somebody shouldn't punch you in the face for it doesn't mean you're entitled to it There's a difference, you know And the fact that you have a right to paywall doesn't mean Uh, it's it's necessarily Not criticizable, although I actually don't think it's criticizable. I'm probably going to buy your movie and watch it or larkin Mr. Larkin I'm happy to pay for it Okay, and I don't see a problem with you paywalling it if I were you what I would have done Is that made sure all of my co-producers had an agreement that eventually you're going to make it Really cheap or free eventually, you know, maybe five years from now when your tail is run out So they'll at least eventually everyone can see it. But hey, that's just me So Anyway, I hope I evil greedy capitalist pig dog plot succeeds And a bunch of you are at the uh, Dallas screening and if so, I will see you there again august 26 Um, that's only I think 160 seat theater So it may sell out pretty quick. So if you want your if you want your tickets I don't know why Like this kind of point was to say that because if you get them and somebody else didn't but just giving you fair warning And I hope to see you there and we're going to do the thing We have a meet and greet for a little before the movie when we show the movie and then we have question and answer That goes for a while. Um, but we'll be there in person Amanda and I will be there and Andrew will be there and Gullman mr. Jones will be there and I forget who else is going to be there So if you want to be there for that momentous occasion and I very much think it's worth thing seeing in theaters I may be biased but See the description below because that says how to get tickets. Yee-haw And you know what? If you try to like peek in a window or sneak in the back of the theater They the people who own the theater have the right to stop you and like close the window and lock the back door Oh Justice at all. Yeah, everyone agrees with that. So why you can't stand your own people Stop trying so hard to be a force against spreading these ideas Oh So like when you sent the dmca takedown notice to odyssey you weren't trying to stop the spread of these ideas Okay, now for now. I'll uh, see some of you in dallas in two weeks. Yee-haw Okay, I want to say um, uh, I I admire what larkin does for liberty like I admire anyone who's a libertarian, especially people that put out content um, I just this all started from objecting to him saying that people who People who are pirating the anarchists Instead of buying an hbo subscription or jerks It's just I just don't agree with that. It's definitely not implied by libertarianism And I don't I see no argument for this I don't know why someone would want to I mean hbo's another one of these large corporations which benefits from various government privileges mainly copyright It's one reason. Um, and so I don't know why you would I would want to give money to hbo If I can avoid it um I like I said in the earlier talk, um I'd rather I'd rather, you know, send two bucks to the anarchist producers directly and by paypal as a donation rather than spend 20 bucks To hbo Because they're gonna get two cents out of that 20 dollars anyway from hbo So i'm just subsidizing hbo All right, uh, I'm gonna say sayonara now and uh Talk to you guys later You