 Very interesting story to talk about right now. There is a company in Salt Lake City called Converis I have the director of marketing Russ Warner on the line with me right now Now why would a public or why would a privately held company in Salt Lake be of interest to me? well because of The concept of truth detection What's going on in our society right now particularly on the federal government level and I would have to say on all levels of government As mr. Warner said when we were chatting off Mike you get a lot of Economy of Truth for lack of it in terms when politicians are talking. I mean right now for example Russ and I are chatting Friday afternoon day before the show is going to air and What do we have? Well, we have the fact that potentially Jeff Sessions is supposed to be going to get fired even though Trump vehemently denies this we've got a lack of information coming on the crowd on the Clinton scams of the investigators I mean with all of these things and this is only the tip of the iceberg who is telling the truth Russ I got to ask you in your opinion What's going on in federal government? Why don't we know the truth of very very important topics right now? Well, that's a very loaded question There are many many many reasons why people don't tell the truth They're doing it to protect themselves. They're doing to protect others. They're doing it to cover up issues or Crimes have been committed. They're just lots of reasons You know, I don't even know where to start. Yeah, I mean that's a great answer But my question is this why has the US on Such a high level why do we even have to deal with the truth? I mean the truth should be self-evident as it says in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. I'm sorry Well, that's that's right and and in a physiological sense telling a lie is actually not Natural so our bodies are really not wired to lie, but we do it for the reasons. I just mentioned And for that reason well and the other issue is that Deception detection technologies haven't really been used in the government even sometimes in court because there is no perfect lie detector and for that reason those who are carrying some weight around of some some in discrepancies or in discretion, I should say They don't want to be tested because if they fail the test It will look bad and if they fail the test because the test isn't perfect They can somehow point to the fact. Oh, it must have been a mistake because there's a possibility The test was wrong. So the the people are trying to cover the truth don't want to be tested For those reasons the people who want to tell the truth Generally speaking would have a much better chance lie detectors do Detect truth in people who are telling the truth and they would the truth tellers really would have a better To be a much better outcome At least it strikes me that Truth detection devices could at least point Investigators in a direction that perhaps they wouldn't have looked at before I mean, I'm a real political junkie and I'm pretty conservative all on but by the same token. I'm fairly independent It just strikes me as being amazing some of the stories that are out there that it would be very very easy to determine The truthfulness of many of those stories. I mean our country's future in my opinion Happens to depend on it Russ. Just give me a comment on that if you will then I want to talk a little bit about Converis What you what you guys are doing? well until recently until our technology was was launched to the market and For about 80 or 90 years the real de facto standard for lie detection was the polygraph And the polygraph there have been other technologies that come about but none of them have been Economical enough or accurate enough to replace the polygraph. And so you've got it. You've got an analog machine That was effective for decades, which was only recently Upgraded to the digital world in the early 90s and you have this this technology that Measures physiological responses your heart rate your blood pressure your respiration and your skin conductance and that's been the de facto standard But now the technology that we have which is different we measure different physiological changes We measure changes in the eye Because when you lie your eyes exhibit certain behaviors Including one of the most diagnostic which is that your pupils dilate and your pupils dilate when you think more so when your cognitive load is increased your eyes reflect that change and Liars have to think up a story to cover their tracks With details and events and people that don't exist because they're covering or creating a story And when they do that their cognitive load increases and when we when we're observing their eyes during that That story creation we we detect that pupil dilation and other behaviors And we can pinpoint to the fact that they're being deceptive You know us. I gotta tell you I think this is a very very natural Direction for us to evolve into in terms of in terms of what's going on around the country in terms of what's going on Around the world now I could be mistaken here But it strikes me that you guys and you're a private company So you don't have to disclose any information, but it strikes me that You're having some relatively good luck in terms of foreign countries picking up this this this mode of operation. Am I correct? Yeah, we are primarily because there there there's one major law in the US the employee polygraph Protection Act Which was enacted in 1988 that prohibits the use of lie detection to be used on private company employees so the majority of employee and Workers in the US have never been tested with a lie detector just to get a job because it's illegal But outside the US it's not and for that reason we've had much more broader acceptance Among military and private companies and intelligence agencies outside the US because it's much more common You know Russia strikes me just from a common-sense standpoint that Truth detection for lack of better terms given the fact where our society has is today And I hate to repeat myself, but I have to do that, but I think it's an incredibly Important avenue to go. I mean, you know, it's it's it's a good analogy to me is that you know the Israeli for example the Israeli system of screening Passengers on on on air flights or on people coming into the country or whatever is probably the most effective in the world And in the United States, we can't use that because of arguments from the ACLU I mean, how long are we going to be counterproductive for us? I Don't know that's a good question But one of the one of the benefits of having two tests one like polygraph and one like I detect is that If you were to test the person with both of these solutions Because they're both independent in in what they measure one measures bodily response and one measures for lack of a better word Brain response because they're independent if you could test someone using both solutions on the same topic If a person could pass both tests, you'd be about 98 or 99 percent certain that they were telling the truth So we now have a way to eliminate what has been I guess the biggest barrier to using lie detection Which is that nothing's been more than 90 percent accurate But now if you if you combine two solutions that are independent You can get very strong results and there would be Less likely of being able to blame the instrument or the equipment for the test failure So things can actually change going forward. Yeah, I mean at least it would provide Investigators a more solid direction to go in when speaking the truth and I got to tell you Lord knows right now We have to find out the truth the future of our country depends on it It's it's amazing to me that US citizens and people around the world can read our newspapers and not get a totally Middle of the road opinion on facts and that concerns me a lot Russ Warner. Thank you so much for your time, sir Thank you. I appreciate it