 discussions and enlightenment emerging from this place and perhaps ideas to carry forward. Academia and industry, when you hear of this, they often seem as if they are opposites, antagonistic, fortunately in the field of design. Design is a practice and a profession, so many people in academia are from industry. Academia is a practice and industry, so there isn't that much to forget. Nevertheless, the goals of academia and industry tend to be a little different. Academia is about education, building a better human being, actualizing individuals. Industry is about getting the job done, often the beef that industry has about academia. We don't get enough students with the right training. Academia and it might say we're too much on our way. We need to develop these persons so that long-term we have benefits. But we don't get a wide range of perspectives here today. The way we're going to do this is each of the speakers here is going to speak for a couple of minutes about their perspective and then we're going to go have a second round. And perhaps as we go on with their time, then we'll throw this open to not long-term on these really thirst questions which our panelists here will see to address. Okay, does that work? Alright, let's get going. Go ahead, just talk to the other man. Very brief introduction and then we'll get into your set. Can you hear me? Okay, I'm Karshah from MIT Institute of Design. And I think we are a premier institute. And the industry, both global and local, is flooded with our students. That's what we like to believe at the moment. So yes, we're here to share and receive inputs and whatever shortcomings that you feel from your side would love to be able to bridge the gap. Hi, I'm Priyanka. I run a company called Factoring Design Studio. And we are rapidly growing. And the thing is that we keep interviewing freshers from college day in and day out. And so I have only two main points which I want to make here. One is that the UX industry is changing very rapidly. And right from the inception of the curriculum itself, if we can make a difference in a way that the industry is involved in shaping up that curriculum because the industry is changing so fast, the academics need to be updated with that. So that is one thing that, you know, it should be inculcated. And the merging between, you know, industry people going to juries and bringing in that industry perspective for the students. And as well as the professors coming to the industry and taking some bit of knowledge from there. So that is one. And the second thing I think when we interview people, what comes out very strongly is that design talking, the confidence is something which the college can play a very important role which currently we feel is a little slack. So that is the two main points which I want to mention. Hi, I'm Chandni. I am studying interaction design at IDC, IHA Bombay. And I'm also an architect. Just a few points, maybe from the postgraduate design education point of view, a few things that I'd like to highlight is that students come in at the postgraduate level from a variety of backgrounds. There are a lot of engineers. It's a good mixture. But so even though it's postgraduate level education, the starting level is quite, it's diverse, so everybody needs to catch up. So that's a challenge in terms of designing the curriculum itself. How do you design a curriculum that caters to graduate designers, graphic designers as well as engineers. And the duration of a course is typically two years and that's commonly felt that it's extremely short for someone to learn to design. And the one good thing about my school is that it's largely multi-disciplinary. Although there are distinct disciplines like interaction design and communication design animation, but we also work together. The courses are all overlapping and you can take electives. So the interdisciplinary aspect is quite a positive aspect. And about being industry ready, I think my point of view is that any job, any role has a certain loading period associated with it. So even if you're switching between jobs, depending on the job, you're going to have to take some time to learn. So it's difficult for a student to come out of an educational institute with being ready to start working on day one. And also education is not designed to create people who can take on roles. It's more about training designers who will be able to take on or adapt to any role that comes their way. Hi. Good morning everyone. My name is Shatrija Anand. I kind of finally made the shift towards academia after almost a decade in the industry. And what has been interesting in my journey of design education is spending time and trying to teach design to school kids, to college graduates, to college students, to working professionals. And that's a very interesting gamut of audience that you have because for the working professional, the understanding of design could be very different as compared to if you're in a design school or if you're in an engineering school or if you're in a school, like K-12 education and maybe even middle school and high school. So for the past three years or so, I think I've spent a lot of time in understanding these different aspects of design education, bringing in my vast experience of working in the industry, working in different service industry, product industry, working with a lot of startups. So kind of because we felt the need of a lot of design talent being required in different disciplines, in different projects, in different companies, the constant understanding that I had developed then was that we need to actually have more people studying design and as a result of which, of course, the shift to the academia part. And in particular, it's wonderful to see today when we're talking about industry academia fusion because we really need to understand both sides of the perspective, both sides of the coin in terms of what is required. And for me, the constant struggle that has been, and I think I would like to open that to everybody in the audience today, and I think a lot of my panelists will agree as well, this constant struggle to get quality teachers, and especially in design because as Murali was mentioning, it's about as a designer, you also have some amount of practice going on alongside. One strong request from my side is to have more people becoming teachers when you're in the industry, and I'm sure we can have more discussion on that as well. Thank you. Atul Manohar, I manage a very small team of UX designers at Informatica. Actually, in two minutes, let me quickly give you a very interesting story that I have built while I was working up. Imagine UX in India would have been a country, and the history of this country would look precisely like this. We primarily serve an industry called information technology industry, and IT industry in India is about 20 years old, little less or more. Industry started with that whole story of outsourcing, then giving services, services becoming more important, specialized services, and then developing products also. Now that we are era in wherein our guys are actually coming up with startups, our own ideas, our own products for our own products. Similarly, on the other side, on the professional side, we started with usability engineering wherein poking the problems in a product to maybe interaction design wherein I designed the whole set of interactions to now that we have started moving into user experience, design the whole experience, and now that we are conceptualizing the products. That's the way the professionals and the industry is kind of traversing in the history. Let's stand and see on the academia side. On the academia side, again, probably in the time of the usability era, academia was trying to figure out whether I should have some kind of a course to that, and they started coming up with some kind of a master's course. By the time industry moved on, the professionals moved on to the interaction design part. Slowly the academia started saying, okay, I have a two years master's degree course, and the professionals have moved to the slightly more strategic positions of designing things. Academia is also catching up saying that, no, I need bachelor's degree which needs four plus two years of design education. So now at this moment of time in history, this nation, there are four types of stakeholders. In the industry, there are business decision makers, and the professionals like all of us. In the academia side, there are teachers and the students. Am I making sense? So everybody is at a stage wherein industry is catching up. In the industry, entrepreneurs are starting up with new ideas for our own people, for our own country. Designers are sitting next to them, shoulder to shoulder. Industry is kind of trying to catch up with that movement. Probably is academia is also catching up over there, and there might be some bit of gaps in these two. So that's precisely what we might even look at discussing now. Hi, I'm Saleem Ahmed from CPDM, Center for Product Design and Manufacturing, IAC, Bangalore. I'm going to give a small bit of points on the history of your UX design. UX design as a field is in its infancy even now. It is perceived to be part of IT industry, and UX design is about 15 years old, you can say. Don Norman coined this word, user experience, in the late 90s, and ever since this has been catching on. This has its roots in ergonomics and human factors, which has been part of industrial design for the last about 60 years or so. So, though this being talked as UX design now, it has been into design for well over 60 years. The Ulm School of Design in Germany, which propagated this ergonomics in Henry Dreyfus, who made a great contribution into ergonomics and made that part of industrial design about 60 years ago. All these things now are expanding into this field UX design. There are about 350,000 engineers graduating annually in India, and McKinsey report says there are only about 25% of them are employable. So what happens? The industry trains them to become useful, and though they are not straight away being useful out of the college, and there is a big gap, industry academia gap is existing, and this will exist. My point is, it is still in its infancy, and it is getting matured. To get this fully matured may take couple of decades, and till then the gap will be existing, and there will be constant approach, market driven approach to bridge the gap. I am Sameer from UX Designs. Controversial, right? So we decided that we will have some spice. So I am going to talk about the good, the bad and the ugly. The good part is that there are a lot of schools coming up for design, and the design awareness in the country has been growing. Not just pressure from the students, but there is also this pressure from industry to have more and more designers, and so the awareness is growing, and therefore there are a lot of schools that are coming up. Also the good part is progressively what we are seeing in the last 8-10 years, that students are learning the techniques very well. Now they are well equipped to at least do information architecture, card sorting and wire frames and things like that. So that is the good part. The bad part, there is still a gap, and the gap is widening. The industry is running in different directions. The needs of entrepreneurs and startups are coming up very fast, and you are still doing wire frames. So that is the bad part. The ugly part is that industry is very well equipped to kind of come and contribute to academia, but they are not interested. I am sorry, but they are interested in doing business and not teaching students. Open to the forum. Great, great. I would like to directly address this. I can't speak for the other institutes, but at MIT we have a wonderful process where we do involve people from the industry and we have live projects as a part of class exercises where we invite people from the industry like yourself and we take on your projects. I think this is a perfect forum for me to invite startups and people who want, you know, looking for designers. We just probably give your project to a class of 50 students and you will get 50 design solutions. So that is answering your question directly. We are not asking you to teach them, but yes, please come and be a part of the exercise while it is going on, given your inputs. Like a typical, you know, it's like a real-world situation where you would be briefing your designer, you would be even be just briefing our students and it adds to their design learning, it adds to their portfolio and they are probably almost like, let's say, you know, one step already in the industry while they are learning and this is an ongoing process at MIT Institute of Design and I am surprised that there is this huge gap that is mentioned because, in fact, we are constantly inviting industry people. So yes, this is a platform for me to invite all of you on behalf of my institute, most welcome with your projects and solutions that you require for your new startups and clinics that you have in mind. Sabir, I would like to disagree with you that people don't have time to give to academics. In fact, we are on the panel of Past and Schools of Design for shaping up the curriculum and it really doesn't take that much time. So it just takes the, you know, the drive to go ahead and do it. But yeah, you're right, I mean, business is foremost and it is important, but at the same time, there is a responsibility for us to, you know, it is in effect beneficial for us as industry people if the students coming out are, you know, straight away ready for the job. So if we can contribute to that and if we can take some time out, I think we should go ahead and do it. So yes, it is an ugly truth, but I think it's not very difficult to be achieved. I think it's difficult to, say, industry ready. So UX is a very specific, narrow sort of, I wouldn't call it a field, but even a profession. So design schools, I think, are very varied sort of skill sets involved in, you know, design and education. So when a student starts out, they probably, it's not a good idea, in fact, to sort of make a student choose exactly what sort of job they would want to work in at the end of their education. So it would be a little skeptical about the idea of industry influencing other curriculums. So you wait exactly the sort of designers who can do the work that industry requires that might not be good idea. So I probably was in the same situation as Sameer a few years ago. Like, how do you really get associated? I think many people in the audience here might have the same concern. You know, like, I have my startups to run, I have my businesses to run. I really cannot spend the time at institutes. The easy way out is, of course, to just, okay, as Ma'am on the left mentioned, you know, give a project to the institute and say, okay, my part of responsibility is giving the project to the institute and they will, of course, take care of it, get the projects done, et cetera, et cetera. Over the past three or four years, since I've worked with a lot of students, you end up understanding student psychology a lot more than sitting in the industry, right? One of the things that has been really interesting is students take feedback from industry people much more seriously than from academic people. The fact that there is this client relationship that starts getting evolved within the students itself, they end up taking those feedbacks, guidance much more seriously. So at the school that I, you know, like all the design in North Atlanta. Yeah, so there are different ways in which you can get involved. So one of course is giving projects, doing workshops, doing lectures, attending feedback sessions, et cetera, et cetera. So it's not just about just giving the project and being done with it. Let me open my book of history again and say, as I have tried to illustrate, the gap is inevitable and the gap is natural. There is nothing wrong in the gap at such. The only difference is now that we are looking at most of these academic institutes also as an industry, right? So it has to sustain itself. Primarily a couple of very nice examples from the data space that I work for are coming from Stanford University and maybe the MIT of U.S. where in research scholars, after completing their thesis, have come up with an innovative product in the data space. So I don't know why, but that is not so much happening in India. We have equal talent. We have equal industry interest and the teachers are also fabulous. So I don't know why MIT can produce some kind of a crazy start-up, very, very technical in nature, which is actually a produce of a PhD thesis. And I don't know. I don't know any more examples from Indian universities likewise. I would like to disagree with Chandni. She said that U.S. is narrow. But I look at it as a very wide thing. You know, I look at it as a holistic thing. Because U.S. is addressing the physical aspects, the mental aspects, the emotional aspects. It is giving a holistic approach to design. And that means it is covering a big spectrum, wide spectrum of areas in its fold. So, you know, this as a discipline will take a long time to mature. I expect about two to three decades for it to come to some state where the demand supply gets too close to equilibrium. Till then, the gap is expected to be there. And that is a challenge. And there should be constant interaction between industry and academia. People from the industry come and be part of the academia as part-time faculty or give projects to the institutes. And part-time employees in industry or giving consultancy will kind of narrow the gap. So, I'll just make one quick point about the gap. What we are seeing is the gap is not so much of the techniques and tools that we used to see earlier. But it's more of the softer skills and design management now, which is getting more and more important. And as, you know, design leaders, we all know how important it is to actually stand in front of 50 stakeholders and sell the design, rather than actually doing the design. And is that in the curriculum? I don't think so. And I would again like to make a point that, you know, I've studied in the US and I'm sure there are many people who have studied outside, right? There is a very strong research base in all those institutions, which is directly applied research, and the research actually is being used by the industry. Where is that research from academia? That we can use. I would want to use something that is very useful as a new technique or tool or research in my work. I would like to give something more, but is it coming from there? No. So are we equipped? We are not because we are busy making money. Okay. What I'm going to do now is throw this open. Throw this open to the audience and we have... Let me... We have a whole bunch of hands. That's the first one I saw. So you're going to be the first. And then if you want it to be addressed by a specific panelist, say so. Otherwise, you know, leave it open to anyone. And keep it brief. Not a comment, but a very brief question. I have... Yeah, I'm happy to hear from anybody who has a comment on this. What's your name? Which institution? If that's okay. And then what's the question? My name is Adil Lakshmi. I'm not a student. I'm a working professional. And I studied outside of India. I have a question. We've been hearing a lot about the gap in the industry in academia. Have you considered anything like a professional masters program or something of that sort? Where, similar to what you were saying, I think about people from industry coming and giving you projects. I would actually say instead of that just being a class project, a professional masters is something a company would tie up with an institute for a longer period of time, maybe a few months. A working project that actually delivers results. That's the core of the professional masters. That's how students learn what techniques or the theory in terms of applying to a real project. Thank you. So has academia in India considered having this professional technical kind of projects where they actually work on real problems for industry? That's a very nice point that you brought up and we'll definitely take it with you outside. Yes, we do have we're touching that to some extent when we have internship programs and our students intern for about a month or a period of two months and that project is also mentored both by the faculty and the external mentor, the industry mentor. The student gets a complete different view when you get the real experience and they come back to us for all the research and just kind of a checkpoint as to everything. Yes, but I like this idea of having a six month incubation period with a company that would be a perfect kind of an engagement period. And what he was talking about yes, I guess when we have these kind of long projects probably we need to just put them up on a platform and share with the rest of the world. So yes, we could have more people and more companies coming up to us. That was really nice. Thank you. Anybody else wants to address that? Are you okay with that? Okay. Next question. Yes, go ahead. Hi, I'm Dabanchu from National Institute of Design. I'm Dabach. So we always have heard of this thing like abstract and concrete. So when we are going into the abstract field we let lose our horses and explore and then come to something concrete cutting down on things. So I feel like academia that we are talking about lets us to explore and industry tries to bring down to so I think there should the question is that I feel that this bridge should be there and why to like why to bring both together? So let us use a natural gap and that's the way these two things are. Why should there not be a gap? What's wrong? Okay, go ahead. Anybody wants to why do we have a problem with the gap? Actually, I completely agree with you. The gap is completely natural. It is there to stay is the way you look at the gap. For example, a couple of internship projects we have done and from the industry side always they will crib that if at all there is an intern working with my team, there is a lot of babysitting I invest a lot and equally the student side would also complain saying that there are just too many constraints to work for and it's very hard for me to fit in my free flow thinking into a very structured process. But I think the beauty of this the gap is the student has to swim that gap anyways on his own. Earlier it was a free flowing just choose what he wants to design whereas in an industry he'll have to address one particular problem and the beauty of the whole process of learning is having that gap itself. So no pain, no gain. So they learn through suffering, salvation through suffering. So how easy, how difficult or easy is it for both the sides to jump into that pain. Industry does go one step further saying that hey, I don't mind paying this guy these three interns they are stipend for six months I don't expect anything out of that. Fairly enough. So similarly I mean it should be both side pain it should not be a one side pain for sure. Anyone else? I would like to make a point. I think there is this perception that industry tries to curtail things and it is a very concrete stuff which we are trying to make but in all cases it is not true. Yes I mean I completely agree to your point that in the college you should be allowed to explore you should that is how the thinking opens it should not be curtailed at that level but there is in the industry also when you come you have projects in which you explore you are allowed to do the you know whatever you want to do to create a difference in the community of the society. So it's not a curtailing so that perception of curtailing by the industry I think is kind of wrong and just bringing the perspective of the industry into whatever projects you are doing might make a difference. So are you saying that perhaps there is this erroneous perception that exists and if it exists perhaps industry has not done enough to erase this perception they should or should not. What do you think? Anybody? I would like to address that you know there is a difference between dreams and reality and you know it's good that you know you learn blue sky thinking and the project goes on and on reality doesn't talk like that there are deliverables there's time commitments and there's money and there's effort and that's the reality of the industry today tomorrow yesterday as well I'm saying that you know while you teach blue sky thinking which is good to expand your horizons why not also teach that there is something called time and effort. There is a timeline to everything and there's cost to everything that is not being taught. This gentleman yes go ahead is there should we give him one? My name is Sudheer Sharma I'm a designer I sometimes teach as well and I write a lot okay I have first some comments to make. No quick questions Sudheer we don't have enough time. No I'm going to make a comment because and you have to listen to it no I don't think we should. Can I just make a perspective Sudheer has a pool magazine which he runs yeah okay thank you no I don't think we should misuse the stage anyway so my perspective is that we are treating the design education like it used to be producing engineers earlier. Preparing people for manufacturing industry so we need to prepare people who can just go and thank you get on to assembly lines and start producing you know bikes and motorcycles and cars design and creative industries work in a different way and I think yeah the way we need to look at that is there is a gap between academia and industry and I feel the gap has to be on the reverse side academia has to lead the industry not being led by the industry there's a problem in Indian situation here if you see design we are celebrating 60th year of design in India this year or last year design has been in India before people know what design is few institutions have been around UX has come into India 2 years back 3 years back I don't know you guys would know and it's being led by the industry so the academia like many of the colleges you are representing are just trying to fill in the gaps so that more and more people can be employed by the industry and I think I completely agree with what Sameer is saying we are producing people giving them skills and tools so that they can go and get jobs okay that's not the role of the academia academia needs to lead the industry if you actually see where all this is coming from people who have been educated outside the research part I think that is very valid and touched upon the research part is what is leading the industry I feel that part is completely missing from our education I have a big problem with okay 30 seconds I haven't finished it I have a big problem with we are confusing education with training that's something which we should not training is fair you know two years course train people and get them jobs that's a big responsibility we have in a country with so many people we should do that but I feel the academia has to lead the industry and I find a problem there the kind of faculty which is joining the design education I believe and I can guarantee that none of you are actually UX trained people are trained into UX because of your experience right we we're trying to now make people who are UX trained and what would they do they would do UX when they go out and would UX be needed in two years time we don't know anybody wants to address this the key issue being academia should lead industry is it possible for academia to lead industry if industry is at the leading edge is there a way in which industry can participate with academia in helping academia lead or is there a different perspective that you have I have just one thing to that and I completely agree with Sudeep's point that it has to lead but the fact of the matter is that if you go abroad and study you will see and find that you know there is this difference in the curriculum in the way teaching is being carried out in institutes in India there is a huge difference and that is why you see people who have studied abroad and when they come back they are instantly you resonate with them they bring something new to the table so that is what leading by academia I think is what you are trying to say and that I think in India we as people who are employing and who have people joining us have not found from students coming from India I think I completely agree to that point anybody else? just to quickly looking at the academia side as well I think it is also the student industry in India is very driven by this world called placements and that is causing a lot of problems because you want the academia to maintain that gap and that abstractness but at the same time the students are also concerned about placements and they really want those placements the parents when they start the interviews for applications for the schools first thing they ask is what is the placement of your colleges rather than asking whether you are making them a good designer or not so that is one of the bigger factors that I think we also need to have a separate panel discussion probably later on is that a reality you are willing to accept and work around it yeah I think so there are different working around it thankfully entrepreneurship has given this huge boost to that the notion that it is not just about the placements and you can actually go ahead and be your unique designer in what was your own capacity and then start your own stuff and you really drive with what your own vision of design is but again it is another counseling for the parent session because they don't understand this notion of entrepreneurship in the first place at all so again it is a more complex, wicked problem as we say in design it is not just very simple as that sounds Atul, Salim, Sameer any thoughts on that interestingly that gap we are talking about is not a river full of piranhas always there is another beautiful island over there called research and frankly in my mind whether industry leads or academia leads it doesn't really matter so that research island is a beautiful island wherein industry could park some of their guys over there give them the freedom they don't get in the industry and academia could park some of their researchers and say hey you are free from your regular stuff and you could look at the business and try and explore it so I think that's the beautiful sweet spot both of the parties could kind of jump into Salim, I agree with Atul he said that point very nicely it is not important who leads whether the industry or academia finally should address the issues to the society for example in CPDM we are currently offering courses at the master's level in product design and many of our students are getting into in a UX design interaction design and that is making us feel we need to do that more in the education level itself and we are probably from next year going to offer courses in UX design maybe when we go to expand this program from product design we are likely to introduce UX design as one of the programs that may happen in the very near future so depending on the demand from the industry in academia we are offering programs to cater to the need Samir you want to say something? I just want to make one point it was about the employability any designers who don't have a job today there is no problem absolutely the demand is very high the supply is very low and the ugly part of industry I am coming on your side the ugly part of industry is the managers who are hiring these designers don't know what to look for themselves you addressed a couple of concerns and I am so sorry but I really have to address this concerns the biggest thing I would like to the most important thing I would like to point out is the fact that right now I see the industry is led teams having led design team heads are primarily people who are from engineering backgrounds or from MBA backgrounds and that is what really really strikes us as like how is that happening we need more designers to be taking more lead roles and at MIT speaking from my institute we are creating those leaders it is our endeavour to create those leaders and the next five years all our students are going out there we are hoping that they will be leading this design teams and that itself would then you can say that the ball is going to be in the other court and is it industry leading or academia leading these students who are professionals who are leading so how is it any different quick we have a few minutes left so quick questions quick responses and we will try to get as many people as possible go ahead my name is Nikesh I am the founder of a start up called events high I come from academic background PhD background but now an industry in a start up so essentially two questions one is how can we share data we have hundreds of user interviews can we share that with the students what is your second question the second one is do you see there is a different need for start ups versus large corporates in terms of education two questions how does industry share data with academia second is there is a difference in needs between start ups and large corporations and how do you address those very quickly we do have a proper process as to how these projects are handled and depending on how you showcase your project or a brief to us we assign a team which is the combination of mentors faculty members and designers and yeah that is how you can exchange your data it is very if you want a nontal disclosure everything that all is taken care of so you don't really have to worry about that second question large versus small how do you address the difference the thing is that we promote our students we have big companies coming to us and pick up our students right away right from college itself when we have a placement program happening but we always tell our students look at these smaller companies look at these start ups because that is really some good work yeah but how do you treat them differently looking at one thing how do you address the needs differently is there a different approach I think we give them the same platform as we would give any big company it is not like we differentiate let's try any other view anybody else comments on that from the data security side I think the smaller companies are at an advantage because they are not bound by all these stupid legalities so if I want to present one of my case studies like this one I'll have to take a couple of approvals from my legal as well simply because in the US there have been number of cases wherein because I showcase my products in a particular way there was a huge legal case and my company paid a couple of million dollars so actually the smaller companies are at a much leisure they don't really care about all this stuff and frankly in my mind the more you share your new ideas the more they will grow so I don't think there should be a reason for you guys to be secretive about your ideas okay let's take another question there were lots of hands over there oh she's got the mind so I have a question until a decade back I saw everybody wanted to be an engineer or a doctor now everybody wants to be a UX designer it's a bubble which is rapidly growing and it is going to burst someday so if the industry has really realized the value of design why don't I see that value in product design or why don't I see product design or furniture design or any other discipline of design growing as much as user experience design and that to only in mobile apps or web platforms if companies are really realizing UX design let's try to address that so one is the claim that UX is a bubble which some of you might take have different opinion the second is if there's so much design is such a big thing how come we don't see evidence around us right? one more concern here is very quickly I'll say everybody wants to be a UX designer an engineer today wants to be a UX designer a developer wants to be a UX designer I don't see anything bad but how do you realize that who actually has the passion for user experience and wants to become a UX designer so how do you sift them in terms of select so one according to me UX is not a bubble that will burst it will evolve it is user experience now it will evolve into something the other question is see we are now talking yesterday into experiential zone brands themselves have become experiential and that is why UX as a term has grown so fast and start-ups have come in and there are a lot of engineers and these are all technology led start-ups technology people they understand the value of UX and that is why they are coming into right now and it is according to me and it will evolve into something else maybe a couple of years later but it is the matter of keeping yourself updated and growing with it anyone else who likes speaks to this I think it is just a natural people are just going with the money it is as simple as that UX companies pay well all students irrespective of what you study product design, fashion design design management doesn't matter I can pick up the skills by taking two courses I will get into the UX discipline I will become a UX designer the transformation is over anybody else actually on the bubble side I completely agree there was an internet bubble product design bubble also little small one in India but that was also there a couple of years back so you are completely right on the bubble side but that is life life is kind of cyclical so we will have to run with that for sure the screening I believe it is very easy to talk about design just give them a design problem and you figure out whether I need this candidate or not this field will keep expanding until it is filled it will take time and it is not a bubble until the gaps are filled it will keep expanding and UX is a big field where it is not only involving designers engineers can contribute to UX as engineers researchers can contribute as researchers and so on and so forth so it is a big spectrum where people of different kinds are required to contribute in this field not only as designers and perhaps if there is any consolation in that your design training will not go waste no matter which field you eventually get into perhaps just one quick question really sorry go ahead we will have to that corner of the room hasn't been addressed have you got the microphone until he gets the microphone go ahead and ask I am a designer working for an I.D. company my question right now it is my observation that people are concerned I am a designer from my academy I am a designer from the industry I am a non-teketurn designer my concern is do we really concern about what our qualification is or are we concerned with people who are sensitive to design people who are conscious about design and people who can really make an exception so it doesn't matter what your training is if you have the right attitude right skills and so on and so forth not at all in fact our company has people who are photographers and now they are doing UIUX so it is the design sensitivity as you said if a person is sensitive to design he has a place in the industry nothing can stop them one last question here last question it is faster than getting the microphone run run run run ask the question my name is Leela I am allowed teaching actually so at the academy I am really using any UIUX techniques in recruiting the teachers professors thank you please last question I want to ask a specific question industry and academia was that a comment or was that a question do you use any methods do you eat your own dog food so to speak well I mean I can't speak looking at we have like our seven disciplines disciplines and there is a vast experience 30 seconds how do we choose faculty is what you are saying brand really we look for people who are in the industry and who spent a considerable amount of time doing a certain kind of work and wish that they can lend the experience to people to the students and the other part is we just kind of lost that one what was it how do you recruit and I think you have addressed it let's go to the somebody who was we recruit people with real experience we recruit people with real experience hello sorry come come come I have a specific question very specific are our industry and academia producing research paper which are specific to interaction design cognitive psychology if no why so basically this is probably related to what Sudhir asked to so have we invested academia invested are we mature enough invested in research to produce original research we are in the process to be very honest we have just launched you know UG program for UX and we have just our first batch of PG UX designers will be passing out in December so you are most welcome it will be all out there very good so there is something coming out of the pipe already 30 seconds addition to that so it is very popular in the IITs they have that whole culture of research and professors and students working on projects participating in different conferences it is very prominent and I would love it when all the other industries also follow suit industry now all the research is done in ergonomics, human factors user research they are all part of it so so industry folks here we find in the west very frequently industry like for instance companies like Hewlett-Prakat investing in Stanford is there any move from industries here who have deep pockets to go in and say here is let's set up an XYZ company center for design is there any such actually that pockets are not deeper anymore if a company is tracking their own results on a quarter basis it's very very hard to invest but most of the companies I believe are investing a little though not enough for sure next question alright so do you believe that design is dynamic this to the academia directly is design dynamic what do you mean by that is it ever changing it's an organic process to begin so other academia teachers that we have going out is it being updated with what is ever changing yes we are constantly engaged most of the staff is engaged we have projects you know ongoing projects in the industry and sometimes we are involved with projects in the industry with the students so it's we are very much hands on I can speak from my institute we have many of my faculty members so good question I would like to again repeat my offer of last years that many teachers should come and do certain projects with us we would love that we would go and teach some question are you waiting for academia to come and ask you are you reaching out to them and sending out invitations we are already doing that we are collaborating with a couple of design schools already defining their curriculum so impact at that level also kind of training the teachers as well in terms of UX because there is probably a little understanding of that we are reaching out already one question a lot of design schools have emerged outside of our traditional bureaucratic hack need university system which is way behind times is there any way in which you are influencing our traditional universities I am keeping leaving Indian Institute of Science out of this it is not a traditional university so I will narrate a story in 2003 I went to University of Pune and there was a very eminent vice chancellor at that time who is also an economist who was also on the Indian panel of economists and we proposed to them that we will start a program of human factors engineering we will take the responsibility and collaborate with outside universities with known people and we will do everything for them so the idea was welcomed but as soon as we went out we had to stop alright the old story ok go ahead one question who is that yes go ahead one industrial problem here when we do job job description we always see UI UX skill set in one and how do we address that is this a right forum for that do you want to speak to that absolutely I would like to address a little bit of that UI UX doesn't go hand in hand UI is just an output of what we do 80% of UX again to my point of the ugliness of the industry the people who are writing these job descriptions don't understand and they want interaction designer, visual designer html everyone in the same I don't understand ok maybe folks who are designers should spend time with these ignorant folks out there educating them maybe ok we have time for just one question sorry yeah I'm right here no you had your chance hi sorry I wanted to pick up sorry ok sorry go ahead while we were talking about designing being dynamic so do we have this notion that education stops at graduation or do you think considering how everything is evolving and changing so quickly do we need continuous training as you're on the job does industry support or value training while on the job talks why must it stop you're absolutely right most of the industries do have very specific budgets for upgrading my own skills and it's an yearly budget almost every industries do have that definitely ok well we've run out of time folks I'm sorry we would like to extend this for another half but these folks are around please accost them have discussions with them right I hope I'm not jumping the gun there thank you very much