 No, I had a meeting. I had something this morning, so I haven't seen any email that came in. It was just for the link she was asking about. Yeah, yeah. All right, we're recording. Excellent. Thank you. So I am calling to order the September 14 meeting of the governance organization and legislation committee at 907. I am pursuing to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021. This meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public are able to access the meeting in real time via zoom or by telephone. And I will just make sure that everybody can be heard and hear. So let's start with you, Mandy. Present. Jennifer present. You can hear me. And Athena, we can, I think we can hear you too. When you can hear us. Yes. Yes, thank you. Okay, perfect. Okay, so I'm just taking a look here. So this has been a really difficult. I just want to share a couple weeks in my, both personal life and professionally with the council and other matters that have just been sort of all encompassing between council and finance and everything that's going on. And I've also had some, some sort of significant personal matters. So I don't feel as prepared for this meeting as I like to be, and I'm going to go through each agenda item that we have on here and we can talk about what I'm talking about. So the first being the, well, so bylaw 3.39, we're good there. We're ready to talk about that and hopefully vote on that. Mandy provided some language and it's excellent, but we'll look at it together. It's in the packet. I've spoken with chief Nelson about it. He was very, very happy with it and we can talk a little bit more about that when we get to that. Discharging of firearms. I spoke with Paul. Paul was not. He said it wasn't normal procedure or typical procedure to have the law firm come to a meeting. And they like to receive the questions in writing and then respond to them in writing. So Paul is still waiting to receive the opinion back on the question we had and actually the question that I had that I posed initially with the request to have Kp law join us was pretty general. I really just took it out of the minutes. So I'm going to respond. I think Paul being on vacation. There's a few things that are just maybe. I just think there's there's still time is what I'm saying for me to pose a more specific question. So what I'll do is I'll show you the email that I sent him, and we can talk about whether that's the question that we want to ask or if we want to ask additional questions. And then the suicide prevention proclamation, I'm about halfway through. I spoke with Lynn, and she said that I basically there were two ways we could go about it, one being I can share with you what I have so far, and then we can make a motion. That allows me as the chair to declare it clear consistent and actionable after the meeting, or I can send it to her when I finish it today. She can officially refer it by sending it out to the council and we'll still come out of here with a motion that allows me to declare it clear consistent and actionable. So that way it gets to the council by the 19th and then equity lens I spoke with Jennifer. My plan on that is to meet with Paul which I haven't been able to do yet to talk with him about how we might collaborate with staff without I don't I want to make him go through the right processes in terms of inviting them to meetings. And so having a work plan that he feels comfortable with in terms of that. Okay, that was a lot so I'm going to pause there and just see if there are any general questions or comments, and then we can go through everything. Yeah. No, I was going to take a minute of the public meeting to say this. Please. No, I just, when you mentioned you were giving your update I think on the board of health at the council your liaison report. You gave so many updates on so many different committees that you're involved in and then when you mentioned that you just happened to meet with our state representatives that day. I was just thinking, how do you do it all. So, I think you're, you're taking on so much. So, like you don't. Thank you Jennifer yeah I appreciate I don't know if that's a compliment or a warning but it's both, but you kind to yourself know I was like where did you. You just mentioned the side and then when I met with you know our state representatives today I'm like what. Well, to be fair that meeting was scheduled for weeks. I know I know. Yeah, and you have kids at home. Yeah, it's a lot and this past couple weeks have been and just getting Alex into a new school has been harder than a bigger challenge than I had anticipated. But it's going to come and give you a kiss goodnight. I'm so sweet. I was really wanting to come into the town room and but he is getting used to doing a lot of homework that he did not have previously and that is a big bump up in his, you know, man. Anyway, anyway, my whole personal life getting laid out. Yeah, no thank you and you know the board of health meeting. Unfortunately, the first time I was actually able to attend as a liaison so I was happy to be able to do that. But I think we're all taking on a lot. And I think this library piece has been really a lot, especially if you're on the finance committee to because this, you know. A compliment and warning noted thank you and are there any other comments. Before we move into the I'd like to start with the bylaw the number street numbering bylaw. All right, so Mandy if you want to pull that up that'd be great. It's in the packet right it is in the packet. Okay. Yeah, I just know and I didn't know there was stuff in SharePoint so I just posted it online now so it's available online now. Thank you Athena yeah my you know, I think I sent you an email and said that this was in the packet but that other things would be coming and and then never followed up with that because nothing else came so. Yeah, but thank you for posting it. And so this is the what Mandy worked on, and this is what I shared with the chief, and he was very happy with it he was really happy with the change from just being houses to buildings. He thought that that was a really like necessary change. And he thought that would be very helpful. He also said that the rest of the language in terms of like the size and everything was was really good and I think he even said that Mandy did you pull this like according to a state state law or. I did not I just used our basic language and then saw if it would be logical to make the numbers bigger than two and a half inches. Hence the note below about what the standard sort of sizes are on various things. But no it was not state law or anything. I just sort of made it up based on what was already there. And it did not have a violation section. Everyone remembers the only part of this before was the homeowner shall indicate without any means of enforcement. Since there was no notice of no indication of what a violation would be so I added one. I don't think it would ever be enforced right I picked a random number. We could potentially say first offense, warning and correction notice or something, you know, like, basically not to find people $25 it's to have them spend less than $25 to put the number on the building. But so we could change that up a little bit but I felt like we should at least somehow indicate who enforces this that's not the police per se because I really think the police aren't the ones that are going to be looking at it. It's the fire department. It'll be more the fire department or just the inspector people are inspection people. We could add the police and for non criminal. They obviously for calls need to be able to find buildings too. Yeah. Do you think we'll have any issues with like how many buildings that are not houses do you think we have, I was trying to like look around as I've been driving around but that you think we might have that aren't numbered is that something that we might, it might How will we communicate this to people, I guess, I think it would be an issue right again I think the communication is when the fire inspection services are there for some other reason right inspections. You know, health inspectors need to go in all restaurants right on a regular basis and everyone's in on a regular basement basis they say hey you don't have a number. Put the number up, you know like I really think that that's how you enforce it right when you notice it. Um, I was noticing, you know, my guess is a lot of the buildings, especially in the block buildings in downtown may not have numbers on their, you know, doors are the most likely place to put it like just on the window part of the door, and they may not because it's just, you're just supposed to know. You know where the toy box is it's like oh it's the emergency at you know black sheep or it's the emergency at, you know what was the works at one point or the library they're not handing you a address number right. So they might not be there. Um, I did notice like the very new university drive south, I don't know whether it's one university drive south or whatever they call themselves the one that's on the corner of you drive, and when up spelled out their numbers on everything. So it actually says one or 100 I think it's one has has any, and then university drive south and it looks really nice. And that would not be in compliance with what we're writing and so they would have to find somewhere on the building to put the number one. It shouldn't be too difficult. But yeah, that makes sense. Is there a way that we are that you have seen with new, not new bylaws but where a change like this is occurring, where a letter could potentially go out to building owners. I mean I wouldn't know that would be more of the building commissioner, right, or, or Dave. You know we just changed the bylaws. I guess we'll just send it to them as a notice like hey this got changed, you know, kind of thing. So they at least know that it got changed. And so I picked three. I just want to say one other thing I used three inches. Because the mailbox reflective stickers are basically three inches tall. I think three inches is actually too tiny on a house but but we if we're trying to not write different standards for different places like oh if it's on the house it has to be five but if it at least five but if you're putting it near the road, you know. That's why I picked three I would hope that most people use something bigger if they're putting it on the house but three would allow all the mailbox numbers to be compliant. Or the, if we went up to five then the red flags that Pat was referring to wouldn't be compliant to because I went out and measured the ones that are on my street and those are four inches tall. So, you know, while three inches might it's better than two and a half. But that's the reason I picked three. Yeah, the note below about heights. Yeah, it looks good to me do Jennifer what I did like what you were what you were where you were going with the warning. I don't know if we've ever if we have that anywhere else. But I think that a warning makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I agree. And he said for less than $25 you could get the numbers. Exactly. But I think that's good I mean I find that I'm on most businesses. Did I lose you. No, just what my screen just went like, yeah, I do find that most businesses, it's very hard. You know, particularly if it's like where Zana's in the toy boxes. It may not be that particular they may have numbers but it's when there's a lot of businesses in one building. It's very hard to find. Yeah, the address is but again you probably don't need it so much because if you said there was an emergency at Zana's you know how they know how to get there. I'm also thinking about they still have visible numbers as much as they can. Yeah, because there might be like, I mean, also for crest purposes, they're probably the responders are newer, maybe not, they're not to the community. No, and certainly if it was in one of the village centers, you know that you don't want isn't personally familiar with you wouldn't even know maybe the name of the build the business. I have no idea why this line is showing up. Is it repeating a pattern or something there you go. It's supposed to be well it's supposed to be this line underneath but I don't know why it's. Anyway, that's probably not the correct language. Let me see if I can find something in a different bylaw. That's a little that has multiple offenses. Yeah, I just don't know which bylaws. Oh here we go for first violation second violation third and subsequent violations okay. Which one has it I'm curious which one you're looking at. Yeah, yeah, take your time. Sorry. Ban on EPS phones is the first one I came across. Oh, there's others but that's the first one I came across. And I did change the title because it's no longer just houses. So, buildings. How do we define buildings I mean is that so that's before it was just it didn't include like multi unit or. It was homeowners last time. Homeowners. Yeah. Interesting. Now you could argue it wasn't business owners or commercial buildings it was only residential buildings. And so I've just changed it to building owners. But like, for example, like a gas station like rents or something like in them with that that's a building right there's a building. Okay, so that I don't know what's there not there but just as an example that would be now something that would require this. And most businesses you know when I've noticed numbers on businesses most businesses when they do number put it above the sort of on the transom of the door, or along the side of the door right. That's where you find it a lot. You know which is when it's there it's helpful if you're looking for a random law office that's in the middle of the building. And there aren't signs outside right you know when you're trying to find an entrance in a new place so. And do you think that it's clear when we say if necessary what necessary means, you know what I mean like what are the, what are the, what are the particular. You know, my words aren't coming but I think you know what I mean. Yeah, so we could add the, if necessary to be easily seen from the street at an additional location, easily visible from the public way like, like we do that. I mean it's amazing. Right, you're actually looking for a number and can't find it. And I always think if it's there where is it. Exactly. Yeah, it was my way of trying to figure out how if you're on a flag lot, or something or that four inches is behind 12 trees, right. Put it up at the street to somehow, or like you said if it's on a door and the doors propped open, then you. Yeah. Right. Any other suggestions or comments about this. All right. Mandy do you want to make the motion. I'm sure what I'm going to do when I send this off to Athena is delete the note section from the one I send off because that's not part of the bylaw, but I think you'll have it in the copy that's in the packet for putting in like the memo of here's how we got the three inches essentially. That's great. Yeah, that will be really helpful. So I guess I'm, I move to recommend the council adopt the revisions to general bylaw 3.39 street numbering of houses. Now buildings. Well, I think we need to refer to it until it's changed as of houses. Yeah. Which would include a to a multifamily house. Well it's buildings now so it will now include everything. It says building right okay that you were saying yeah. Yeah so title is street numbering of houses so I think now it says buildings right motion should read. Yeah. Okay second. Actually did you finish that saying the whole thing declare clear consistent actionable. I guess we could say because because this is beyond clear consistent and actionable right so great revisions to straight number and also declare those revisions clear consistent and actionable. There we go. I had you seconded Michelle. I seconded it before she made that. I had a new second. Whenever. All right. That was what we're getting that. Yeah. Yeah, and let's vote Jennifer. Yes. Yes, Mandy. Hi. All right. Great. Thank you. That's good. Feels good to get one thing done. Actually that's important. It's one of those things. I know absolutely. So with respect to suicide prevention. I really this was something really was important to me. And so I have taken it on on my own because I didn't. Lynn basically hasn't know she hasn't sent it out for referral or to ask for anybody additional to work on it and quite honestly I haven't had time to ask anybody so. What I'd like to do if possible is be able to finish it. I have about four where or five whereas clauses on making it one page right now. Just to keep it short and I'd like to finish it today have Lynn refer it to the council. I'm not going to say formally or to the GOL, excuse me formally and then, but to come out of here today with a motion that allows me to declare it clear consistent and actionable, so that it can be there on Monday. Do you think does anyone see a problem with that like getting pulled out of consent or or anything. I mean obviously if it's just like junk, I'm sure someone would pull it out but I hope it won't be junk. Mandy. Is the goal to be able to put it on consent. Because we have a provision in our rules that if it doesn't go to GOL, you just have to wave. I don't know what rule it is machine will know off the top of her head the rule that requires it, GOL to have declared it clear consistent and actionable. I think we've done that on consent before as well as the actual proclamation on consent when that's happened. This one's a new one so maybe that's what Lynn's a little hesitant about but I'm not sure we have to assign that to you if we just use that waiver. I mean, I don't think Lynn was hesitant that wasn't my like about any that she was like whatever works kind of thing so if there's a rule that allows that. And maybe Athena could, or we could look it up actually right we can pull up. Oh, go ahead. It's 8.2. 8.2. Okay. So, sorry, I just brought my question. Does that mean we don't have to do anything here Athena. I would suggest that the committee doesn't have the proclamation to do anything with head. So I would I would I think that the easiest thing would be to request that the president put it on the agenda along with a waiver of that rule. The waiver could go in consent I'm not sure Mandy do you think the proclamation itself could go on consent because it hasn't. It hasn't received any unanimous recommendation from from a committee I guess the president could determine if it was non controversial then it could go on consent. Sorry I'm thinking through this out loud. Yeah, and I think we've done that before but I think we've only done it with those that have are sort of the yearly ones that we've seen before Athena but you know I heard me an agenda setting when I was there regularly as much can go on consent as possible and so I would say it can go on consent and see if someone pulls it off. All right, well I'll I'll send it to Lynn when I think with it today. Tell her what we talked about. Okay, perfect. Okay, well good. That covers that. And then yeah so discharging of firearms. Like I said, let me pull up what I sent. All be here. I'm going to just share my screen here. Okay. Let's see. So this was a very if you just want to take a minute to read it. And then Paul basically responded and said that he's posed the question to the attorney but they don't typically invite attorneys to public meetings. And then I sort of tried to boot it up onto his inbox again and he said that he would try to get me an opinion for today written but that he didn't this morning as of 719 didn't have one yet. So I think it's just is what and then what I wanted to ask is really, was this the question or do we want to have some questions that I can forward to Paul after the meeting and be more specific. Do you want me to keep this up or can I take this this down. Yes. So, I mean I think the question is the tension between sort of where I stand of not wanting to mess with something that doesn't seem broken. And Michelle your, I think you were the one that wanted to remove both I even think air rifles you were proposing to remove that entire section. So I think it's just shotguns with potentially adding in a hunting exception. And the question is, if we were, I, you know, I would say one of the bigger questions for me is if shotguns and air guns were removed as exemptions. You know wholesale exemptions, what specific exemptions and the wording form might we need to add into whatever that second sections numbered. Yeah, to ensure that we're not unreasonably eliminating certain uses that the full shotgun and air gun exception right now. We can allow. You know, and particular ones that we've mentioned are hunting and I would say hunting for not just recreational purposes. Some people hunt for actual food purposes. I would call that not recreational if you're killing that deer so you can eat it. The, we heard from the chief but the sort of game for, you know, BB guns, but paintball guns those types of, you know, like, almost recreational uses of those. Did chief say that that paintball guns were not air guns. I'm still unsure of how that's the case. But again, we don't know the law right and so maybe they're not because an air gun is defined as certain firepower right and we just don't know and they don't You know, whether the exemptions that are already there in that second set allow for target shooting on your own land or whether you have to have like a formally approved target range gun you know what I'm saying like that was one of the things I mentioned was well if you own five acres. If you make shotguns out can you no longer target shoot on your own land. Right, because is that I don't know whether the way the second part is worded covers informal target shooting right. You know, so things like that that I just don't know what the consequences of removing that are. The same law right. Yeah, absolutely and I think we need to ask all these questions but I was also thinking about, like, if we added something within the context of the law. That made it clear that we that modified shotguns that are considered then assault rifles under state law are not acceptable and instead of removing the exemption of shotgun and air guns. Would that be a question, it'd be okay to ask to look at it all turn to like do it that way as well as a possibility. Because that's my concern is not the shotgun just shotgun itself at all it's that the shotgun gets modified with just some accessories and then it becomes an assault rifle. That already covered by state law. I think that state law does say that assault rifles are not legal. But I'm not sure that it covers a modified shotgun like that someone would make it home, like a home, you know what I mean, modification type thing. I think that's a good question too because and to play in some sense that the opposite advocate. Target shooting though target practice there are a number of people who enjoy target shooting with rapid fire automatic weapons. And there's like how dare they right but there are a number of people and and that's actually where, you know, if you think about gun ranges. A lot of people will go there just so they can shoot off an automatic weapon that we would consider an assault weapon, because they get a kick out of it but they're doing it in a safe environment right range and all of that and again it is like a question of what about home ranges because we do have people that own a lot of land. Right. And so, so it goes back to what I guess my question for the committee is, what are we trying to prevent in this bylaw that is not already prevented at state law. Right, you know, another question I'd like to hear answered. Because I don't know what we're trying to get to that's already prohibited. Yeah, I think it really depends on the state law question and I would want to look at that or ask our KP law to look at that because if it's already even if there's shotguns that have been modified if if those are already not allowed by law in the state of Massachusetts, then, you know, but I, what I'm personally trying to prevent is that if we exempt shotguns and a shotgun can mean a gun that has now been modified to be an assault rifle. I want to prevent, I want to I want to prevent that. What though prevent them because this bylaw doesn't do that. Right, no from discharging right so this is discharging so from being but but I hear what you're saying about like okay, I don't know that it's legal to discharge an assault rifle on your own. Right, that scares me. Well that's what I don't know right. Right. I'm able to do that on your personal property. I don't. I mean, if the state law allows it that's where it is but that does feel like that's when you read that some five year old got killed because yeah. Yeah, yeah, accidentally. I pulled up like Wikipedia, I think I put it in the packet last week, the state law from Wikipedia. The definitional state law of what weapon is but we still don't know what the discharge laws, you know, we, right. This is where I struggle right because I think the one law that this bylaws referenced prohibits discharging things within 500 feet of a building or something, you know, and so that already eliminates a whole lot of what people are concerned about right and that's covered at state law. And so it's, it's the beyond stuff that from my understanding is what this bylaw regulates is things beyond that 500 and, you know, even if you're allowed to discharge a firearm at 600 feet if you injure someone, you're still liable right on the civil side you know it's not like, oh well I could so just because I hit someone means I'm not liable right you know I mean there's there's still you injured someone right. And so, I guess that's where I, I just don't know what problem we're trying to solve and what we're trying to prevent with the revisions and so there's the clarity on the questions I have about what those revisions would do but then there's the question for you and Pat and you know the rest of the committee. What, what is the problem you're trying to solve and is this the right way to go about it. Yeah, yeah. All right, let me see what I can do to kind of take that feedback and put it into some questions for KP law and I wanted to ask this so one of the things that came up when I did sit in on the Board of Health meeting was they had an agenda item about guns as gun violence is a public health matter. And they talked for about 15 minutes they talked about what sorts of policies they may consider. And they also presented a really good report that that was interesting that I want to take a look at but is this a case where the conversation should be more holistic or are we really like doing something so specific in this bylaw that it, you know that it. Like if I'm if I'm presenting if I'm presenting questions to Paul to present to KP law and I know that they're also questioning some things should I get with them first and say like, is there a more comprehensive list of questions around guns that we want to be asking our legal people. I think it would be worth mentioning to Paul that there might be an intersection right, you know, and, and is this bylaw, the right bylaw, you know, like, maybe there, I don't know how you word that but I do think, you know, gun violence is definitely an epidemic right you know like I, despite everything I've been saying in this meeting where people might be like, Oh, where's Mandy Stan gun violence is an academic, you know, cause of death and like, we have a problem with guns in this country at the same time, I recognize there are very many people who play the sport of shooting. And then there are many people who actually have to use weapons to defend their property, their ranches their cattle their their agriculture and also that use those weapons to find food and eat and get you know so it's finding that balance is what I'm worried about here. Yeah, but I do think there is that intersection and so if, if the public health, if the Board of Health is looking at potentially. I don't know whether they could regulate stuff under their regulation power or not but if they're looking at that. We wouldn't want to be doing anything here that contradicts that we would want to be complimentary to that and so it might require working together or at least Paul knowing. Okay, there might be other stuff going on. Yeah, I think that's a really, yeah, that's a really good idea. And so I'll approach it in that way and see where we, and see where we get, and we'll go from there. I did include chief Livingstone on the email communications as well so he's been in the loop about about this. Okay, so I think that's all for that one for now. And let's see here. Discharging suicide we did that okay so equity lens. Like I said I did speak with Jennifer. My concern after speaking with not concern I'm actually quite amazed that they're going through a process of work, including a strategic plan including some other requests like the resident oversight board and other pieces that they're working on right now and so my, like when I initially kind of brought this. There were two pieces there were the equity lens review process that we've talked about and then there was the piece where I wanted us to look at our charge and consider whether adding equity, somehow was appropriate. And I think that my thinking process around that was not necessarily that it had to be even one of the conditions of clear consistent and actionable, but that there might be some language written into the charge that simply acknowledges and recognizes equity as something that I think you made at this point Mandy and it was a really good point about substance and about like, well, if let's say something came to us, and we from from another committee that was referred to us. And we looked at it and we used that equity lens or we thought we were using some equity, you know awareness there. We would need to send it back with a note, basically to the committee that it came from saying, hey, we think this might not be equitable for this reason but we don't get into substance so you need to kind of determine that with your committee and or talk about it or we request that you talk about it. So I wanted, setting aside the full equity lens review process which I think requires a work plan between us, Jennifer and Pamela, and maybe even Human Rights Commission Jennifer mentioned, but that requires a conversation with Paul that I haven't had to have yet. But this piece about the charge I wanted to address and see if anyone had any feedback. You're muted Jennifer. I wanted to get to it. Is it. Oh, I can pull it up. Okay, thank you. That'd be great. Since you know I was looking at it myself. Yeah. And you know I thought it was really interesting when I reread this, Mandy, I think we have slightly different ideas about. I read the town council for form content and organization to assure they are clear consistent and actionable. And maybe that just means content just means literally the words. Right. It doesn't mean the substance of the content. Right. Okay. Okay, so then I can clearly see that that that it's making that that is a clear connection there it's not like. So when I first read it I was like, wait, content, no content. I thought we weren't doing. And maybe like, even. Yeah, so I'm looking at the other charges because you know I don't want us to get bogged down as a council in things going to 12 different committees and getting passed back and forth between committees right and so I don't want it to finish and TSO say, come to us and I'm going to use water regulations come to us and we go, you know, I don't think this is quite equitable on this grounds but we can't touch it so back to you guys. And back to us when you're done, you know, just it bugs things down it adds a lot of, I feel like extra but unnecessary complication to the process, including for people trying to follow the process right oh we thought it was done and not getting back like, you know, and so I'm looking at the other charges. And, you know, what we may be able to do is recommend and I haven't figured out how this would happen because within the charge itself it doesn't work very well. You know, because just like our charge it's review and make recommendations on measures X review and make recommendations on measure why right, but the purposes, you know, advise the Council on matters that I'm looking at TSO one right now. The Council on matters concerning the day to day provision of services by Amherst government and relations between the town and community, maybe we could recommend in each of these purposes. If the rules organization governance and reviews legislation proposes on Council, figure out a way to add to the purpose. You know, using various, you know, and making recommendations, I like said I don't know the wording, but that adds to those purposes within reviews of, you know, ensuring equity and climate lens and all of these things that we put that into each charges you know that we're not, you know, in addition to just reviewing matters for CRC that deal with planning and zoning and say, we're reviewing them over, you know, the overarching review is just, you know, for these particular things, you know, like, as well as others right including but not limited to type language of equity lenses climate lenses benefits to the, you know, public purpose right things like that that maybe we can just recommend figuring out a way to add that into the purposes of all committees, if we want it specifically stated. I, I think that is a really, really great solution and I was thinking along those lines because when so you may have seen that Apple would sent a letter to the AHRA, the Apple would diversity equity and inclusion folks I sent it along I think to the full town but they referenced our resolution and some wording in the bottom of the structural racism resolution about making sure that what we're doing is is is following in that and we could pull it up like is is equitable is, you know, and a lot of a few other things too but I was thinking about like, given that we passed that resolution, given that we now have a DEI department given that we're all working so hard to use those lenses. How can we just make that clear in each of our charges and I think what you're suggesting Mandy is a really good way to do that. And so maybe just thinking about what sort of language would cover and I think including the climate as well. And that would be part of every committee's charge. Yeah, that's a good solution. I think we'd have to come up with some standard language, and we might be able to what I'm trying to not not that my, my item is working but I'm trying to come up with our rules. You know, have value or like our values have that value statement at the end that that do a lot of things and so maybe we can reference that, you know, of, you know, to ensure, you know, as you know, in part to ensure you know we're reviewing all of these the purposes to review X YZ for TSO say, in part to ensure that they meet these particular values whatever they are I'm having a problem pulling them up because my I can find them in the, you know, I application just isn't opening it. That's okay. I was going to ask Athena about that because when I've tried to Google our rules, I can't ever get a return that has our like latest rules as they have been updated this year. Maybe it's just not returning Athena, but I don't know I don't know why it is, but the link I am using online has the rules as last revised June 6 I don't think there's been a revision past June 6. But it's on the, the Council page. I'm not sure how well Google works with our website and and I don't think it does. And I think our website is sometimes tricky about finding the right thing when there are so many versions out there on the website but but if you go to the town council page there's a link on the left hand side that says town policies. And the rules of procedure are in there. The most up to date version is there, and I just refresh that same link whenever we change the rules so that the link never changes so if you bookmark that link, even when the rules are amended. The link won't break so that should be always up to date. Okay, I'm on here now I'm just trying to. Athena recommends exactly what I did I just bookmarked the policy page so that that takes me to the rules of procedure it takes me to some of our other policies and then I can just click on them to know I've got the most up to date one. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, okay. And so we could, you know, some of these are some of these statement of values relate to us as counselors, right. So we could potentially just identify certain statements of values within this in each of the charges, the DEI, the environmental sustainability, fiscal responsibility. You know, those are the ones that pop out, particularly for sort of substantive review right now. Yeah, yeah, I like I like that I like that I just I'm looking at one. I think it's really good to to like reference the things I like to see like in like the, the special legislation that you and on a proposed like when we reference the housing plan you know like when we actually reference things that we already have it just builds on the foundation. So I was just looking up. So I could come up with some language for each of the charges by the next meeting. Do you, I presume I would try to use the same language for each charge which is why I say that it might be a little different in terms of how to fit it into the purpose statement but I could try to do that for the four committees. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beyond the three I mentioned of environmental sustainability DEI and fiscal responsibility. Do you see any others on here that should be particularly called out for sort of that type of lens review. I just can I share my screen quickly that down and I'll share what I'm looking at here just again coming back to the structural racism resolution. So, this second be it further resolved affirms its commitment to eradicate effects the town of Florida will review and revise its policies procedures bylaws values goals and missions through an anti racism lens to foster an unbiased and inclusive environment that is free of discrimination harassment and negative stereotyping toward any person or group. Is that something you might be able to work with in the language that you draft Mandy to sort of include some of that somehow. Yeah, don't take that down yet. I will find the bathroom I'm sorry I'll be right back I'm going to turn my camera off quickly. And I have my mute on this was a big truck outside. Do you want me to stop this share Mandy are you still looking at this one. Oh you're muted. Sorry, I just muted. I'm good with that you can take that down. So it so the plan will be that Mandy, thank you so much. You'll be willing to draft some language and then we'll bring it back for our next meeting. And time for our next meeting. And that's the 28th. Okay, great. Great. Thank you. And that sounds like a really great solution. I think if it's, if it is approved. It will really show that we are, you know, not just putting these things out there like values and resolutions but we're actually really acting on them and including them in our work so. Oh, we have some minutes. I think. Although I'm sorry I haven't done the August 17 minutes that's just fallen to pass things on my to do list. But I will try to get this done for your next meeting sorry about that. That's no problem. Okay, so let me just. So August 31. I did I are they, let me, I hope I put them in the packet. Let's see here. Anyone have the packet the SharePoint open. It only had my thing in it in the minute and the agenda in it as of this morning. Okay, I do have the minutes from the 31st. So since we're not since it's only 1006, should I go ahead and put them in the packet and pull them up and we can review them and try to get them approved. Or should we just wait, should I just put them in for next time and we'll just wait. Any preference. I don't have a preference. I'm sorry. So noisy out. Either is fine with me. Yeah. Um, here, let me just, here we go. Are you pulling them up now I can have them to the online packet. Yes, I was, I was going to yes. Yeah. I'll save them into our SharePoint first and then let's see here 14. So they're in there now. And then I'll share the screen. And so maybe we can just take two minutes to read them. Oops. Oh, and just as a mention that, as you know, the snow and ice was successfully referred referred back to us. So we'll make sure that's on the next agenda as well. So just let me know when you're done reviewing them. I'm done. Fine for me. Done. Okay. All right. So I will move to approve the meeting minutes for August 31st, 2022. Second. Great. And Mandy. Hi. Hi. Hi. Ice chorus. Yeah. Yeah. Was it Pat who talked about using I verse, I, you know, I've started doing it in council meetings. Me too. And then when I hear someone say yes, I want to like say, you know, like I have this little thing in the back of my head remembering that conversation. All right, great. So that is all set. I just want to make sure that we have the next agenda of the next agenda to make sure I have everything. So we know we have the snow and ice for sure. Oh, sorry, Michelle. I know we don't have anybody in the attendees list, but we should do the public comment. Thank you really quickly too. Before you adjourn. Just a reminder. Sure. Absolutely. So I'm going to go ahead and call for a public comment period. If no one's there, should I still read the statement? Do you, do you have a public comment period? I just make a statement that no one is in the audience. Okay. So we do not have any attendees. This would have been the public comment period. If somebody does come in between now and the time that we adjourn, we'll certainly offer another time. I'll announce it again. Thank you, Athena. Thank you. I have the equity piece. Just go ahead. While you were taking your breaks and all, I came up with some language. If people would like to try and finish that today. We can look at an attempt at language that can be added into all of them. I'm good with that. Yeah. Yeah, that would be great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, chair. So the red, it would be what would be added to each purpose statement. It is the same for everyone. Just so you don't have to read. And I think it works with every purpose statement, but. It's my first attempt. Drawing board. Okay. That sounds great. Absolutely. Perfect. In my mind. Yeah. I think that would be a good idea. I think that would be a good idea. I think that would be a good idea. This would be on the. Consent agenda or first it would be in your report back. So. If we make a motion, our motion would be to recommend that the council adopt revisions to the purpose statement of. These four committees to add the phrase X, since it's the exact same phrase at the end of each one. It stays on consent, but. But it will be outlined in a report in the next GOL report. So even if it's on consent, excuse me, consent, it will be clear from the report what our deliberation was on this and how we came to the solution. And then if someone wants to pull it off, they can. If it doesn't get pulled off, it just gets automatically approved and each of the charges would be updated accordingly. But if it does get pulled off, then it depends on what the discussion is. Then what maybe someone says, well, I want you to take it back and add this or take this out or whatever. We're empowered to make these recommendations, which is, which is great. Sorry, Jennifer. Yeah, no. And then if it's on the consent and it's. Not pulled, then it's done. Right. So I think hopefully that will happen. Yeah, absolutely. Although I will say. In this case, I would, I'd be tempted to pull it off consent just so the public would have the opportunity to hear because they certainly aren't reading the GOL reports. And I don't think they're, or most probably aren't, and they're probably not. They're just looking at the consent agenda with any amount of, you know, in this case, I don't know. I don't know how we might just announce that we've done this because I think it's really. Well, you could certainly do it in your GOL report. I was going to say the same thing during the committee reports at the end of the evening. You could mention it if it passes on consent. That's perfect. Well, great. I'm ready to. I'm ready to go with this. If you are all are. May I ask a quick question? I'm sorry. I should use racing on when I want to say something. Sorry, I don't do that. Mandy, I can't read fast enough. It's the same for all the committees, right? It is the same. I literally copied and pasted. I will send you this document, but it is the same for every committee. I snipped the language. I just wanted to double check that I don't need to snip up four times. So you don't. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So would some, would anyone feel inclined to make the motion? I'll, I'll try to. Word something. Cause I think it's to recommend the council. Revise. The purpose statement of the GOL, CRC, TSO and finance charges to add the phrase. To the council's statement of values, particularly those of diversity, equity and inclusion, environmental sustainability, and fiscal responsibility, as well as ensuring that measures foster and invite an unbiased and inclusive environment that is free of discrimination, harassment and negative stereotype, stereotyping toward any person or group. At the end of each state, each purpose. Statement. I don't know if you needed that at the end of each because I think you said. To the purpose. The end of each purpose statement. If I say that, then I don't need the last part. Right. Exactly. But we'll see if Athena. I lost track of what I'd said while I was reading the phrase. Yeah. Athena, did you, did you get that? I have. Purpose statement twice, but I think that's okay to recommend the council revised the purpose statement of. The GOL, CRC, TSO and finance committees charges to add the phrase. To add to the end of. Them the phrase. And then I think you can stop at this at the. The reading of the phrase then. The phrase. Okay. Great. Got it. All right. And I think Jennifer seconded it. Seconded. Yeah. Okay. Great. So the only discussion is to say thank you. I just really want to say thank you that we work together on this through this and so quickly. And so that's awesome. And we'll vote Mandy. Jennifer. I. And I'm an I. All right. Cool. So getting back to the agenda for. For next week then. Or next time we meet. I have snow and ice. I have snow and ice. I have ice. I have ice. I have ice. I have ice. I have ice. I have ice. I have snow and ice. I have snow and ice. I have hopefully. A work plan that I've worked out with DEI about. Like an equity lens review process. Although I'm curious, I'll put it. I'm curious just. This is what I really, when I brought this forward, I think I'm going to say. I don't want to say something like that. But it's just. Yeah, necessarily that. And we don't have Pat and Nikki here to weigh in on this right now. So maybe it's worth adding it to the agenda. Okay. So we'll just like reat it and I won't really do anything in terms of like. Other than maybe getting another update. I do think it's really important that the DEI department has a time to like work through all the stuff that they're doing. And then in terms, can the town manager review process that by the time that we meet next, I've just, I'm not clear if there's something that we will need to do. So, you don't think so, Jennifer. No, I don't think this committee has to do. So, what is the next thing we have to do, man, not for the manager review process, we have to start thinking about manager goals and the modification of the goals. And so the question is, and I think this is where maybe we can talk about it today. Do we discuss goals, propose some revisions, take them to the council, let them talk about them and then come back or do we start at the council, see what they might want to revise, sort of without having discussed them in and then come back, because the timing of that is different on when we as a committee first discussed the goals, whether we're going to discuss them before the council has any discussion or not or whether we're not going to touch them until we've heard from the council. I do we want to propose changes to the council then hear from them or do we want to hear from them without having discussed it at all here. Jennifer. So, I have to admit, I did not realize the actual goal discussion started with us because I was really wondering where, when we looked through the, the timeline that we, you know, approved or whatever that we at the meeting this week. It almost looked to me like the goals setting started with the town manager. I was trying to but I'm, yeah, so I would like to discuss that because I am not clear on how do we work with the goals from last year and go from there. Yeah, how does that process. Mandy before you respond I just want to make sure we're not violating anything because it was not on our agenda. We're talking about it in terms of future agenda but would you say we're in, we're in within that realm. I think we are because we're trying to decide whether when it needs to first go on an agenda. So, in the past. Yeah. The goals have been drafted by GOL with consultation with the manager sometimes, but they have basically sat, what I would say is they've sat in GOL, they have not been. There's always been council comment on them, but GOL is where all the revisions were discussed and then brought to council. Does that make sense and so this last iteration of goals which has now been used for two sets of years I think is the format that they look like now with these overarching ones and all I think we are in our second year of using that format that format came out of a GOL discussion. Then went to the council came back for revision. Last year with which would have been sort of the second year of using them so you already had that basic format. I don't know what GOL did. I can't remember but I think GOL proposed revisions. The council talked about them added some potentially other goals to while talking about the proposed revisions and then it went back to GOL to deal with that and address all of the concerns of whatever was proposed to add in anything that GOL didn't do that other counselors wanted it to do, and then it went back to the council for final adoption. So I think it started in GOL with just the GOL members saying hey, these are the ones that might have been met these haven't been met here's where we really need to get stronger here, you know, based on, in some ways your self evaluation because he'll go through when you see and say, here's the goal, here's what I did here's what I didn't. And so I think GOL last year took that self evaluation looked at the goals said you know we were really as a council weren't happy with X. Either the wording or it didn't get done it needs stronger wording or we need to add why. And then we went to the council that draft went to the council the council commented on it it went back to GOL and then for changes to the conversation and then back to the council. So we can do the same process this year, or we could start with which I if that's the process we want I would recommend getting it on our agenda, sooner, rather than later, because it will take a couple of meetings for us to work through those discussions and draft language for the changes, if we or you can start at the council and say you know GOL hasn't discussed that at all council what changes do you want to the goals. What's the process for individual counselors, you know so, is for just, just, you know, if you want to add new goals, if we weren't on the council last year so. That's where either if you're on GOL you, you get to talk about a lot. On GOL that's where the council discussion comes in which is why the question is do we start as GOL where then now we've got sort of five already in there and maybe we've covered all 13 or do we start, you know and then say hey based on these five counselors basically you know this committee this is where we think the changes need to be. We've got a nice mix here of new counselors, non new counselors right that have involved and not, or do you start at the council and say, have at it council what do you want us to do is GOL. I think it's more personally, I would start at GOL it's probably more efficient. Okay, because we actually chose the opposite for the first like conversation and that was on Monday and because there was like no framework it didn't really solicit any, any discussion whatsoever. You know, it was put out there but then really the timeline was already in the consent agenda and already been changed based on what we had recommended. So, I agree, I think that we should take it here to give a structure and prompt for the council to have a discussion. So I would say that would probably be a couple I mean that's a major focus of a meeting. It's a couple of meetings if we're not going to have council comment first if we already have the council comment that's where a lot of that works done but if we're starting it ourselves. It's at least two meetings. Yeah. Okay, on the agenda. And does it need to be so here's town manager emails written self about valuation on Wednesday, October 5. That means we could talk about it for the first time on the 28th before we receive that, and then the second time on the 12th after, or we could just wait until the 12th. Michelle could you pull page down a little bit to see when the council's going to have the first goal discussion. Like what what did that end up at. The goals were like town manager 21. Yeah. Okay, and then we're supposed to vote at the two weeks later. Under this plan, the 22nd of December it's almost a month later. But the fifth if they're ready and then the 22nd. Oh, sorry, I missed that. Yeah. Yep. So if we discuss it on the 12th the 26th and the night. We can have something to the council on the 21st. The 12th, the 26th and the ninth. So November. Okay. And that would be allow us to wait for the self evaluation. Exactly. Exactly. Jennifer, do you think I haven't looked at the goals since basically last year you probably as a new counselor you guys probably know what you think's missing. Do you think three meetings before we take it to the council might be enough. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So just kind of thinking thinking this through though. Would it make sense for there to be some interim or some, for example, could I send an email to the council and say, we're going to do this. We're going to send an email to the council. And then we're going to send an email to the council. And these are the dates that we're going to be doing it. If you have feedback or if you want to attend these meetings or something. So that we're not completely just the five of us, you know, for three sessions. Discussing this without any feedback whatsoever. From other counselors. As long, I think I've done that in the past with other things where I've just included a whole list. I anonymized who sent what. So I literally just cut and paste the comments without who provided the comments. Okay. Yeah. So they go to me to me and Athena, right, Athena, not that, you know, I wouldn't expect Athena to do any work with it, but just to that it goes to us to and only us to and then I can take, or no, would it be better not just to go to. I don't need to see the comments when you receive them, they can go just to you. But when you compile them into a document and share them with the committee, they need to be posted online first. So, well, simultaneously, but I'm going to say first. Yeah. So you, I would just ask that you send them to me before you share them with the committee. So, and then once I say, okay, they're online, then you can add them to SharePoint. Perfect. Okay, that sounds great. And Jennifer. So, um, do you think when we're discussing this that we, you know, other counselors may be in the audience or what we get a lot of public participation for this, or usually is more under the radar. In the past, um, GOL has done it without necessarily inviting the other counselors to the GOL meeting because it will be on multiple council meetings. They're the end, especially if Michelle's doing the send some thoughts in first. It gets if they're invited, you have to then potentially declare it as a council meeting. And so, you know, but what I found in the past is the public pays attention at the council meeting. They may show up at GOL, but, but they do comment at the council meetings once it's once it shows up in the council packets. I was just going to. Can you see this still. Oh, Athena. Yes. You don't have to raise your hand, but you can. I would, I would suggest if you, if you want to, I agree that the public pays attention at the council meetings and it might be. I have a question about whether or not counselors attend the GOL meeting. If there seems to be a lot of interest or if you want to offer. When you solicit feedback from the council, if you want to say if you would like to attend the GOL meeting and participate to let you know so that we know if we have a form and we need to post it as a joint meeting. Otherwise counselors can only attend in the audience and participate during the comment period and you know that even that gets a little squirrely. Okay, sure. Just pulling these up quickly I just wanted to. So we haven't, I mean, Yeah, this is a big, this is the sort of like the closest to a vision statement we have really. Yeah. Yeah, this is an important document, you know, kind of the work plan for the town manager. It's a lot. This one might get built up a bit. No, sorry, did I just express an opinion. Just taking a wild guess where you can't touch in this meeting. I just, I just, I'm sorry I retract that. Okay, so I'm going to stop this. It sounds like I will be sending now is this an email is it too early to send this email out to counselors or should I time it. I just don't want Linda, I'll check in with Lynn of course I don't want her to feel like I'm confusing or muddying any of the rest of the process that needs to occur which is actually. It's probably fine to send it now as long as the dates are clear that we're not going to be discussing till because some counselors really appreciate the length of time, given, you know, having more time to think about it and respond than getting it three days before you need to post a packet. I would suggest periodic reminders before that meeting as well. Absolutely. And so is the goal for us to have that compilation ready for October 12. The first time we talk about it. I assume. I think that would be ideal if we've got that we might be able to finish our initial work in two meetings instead of three, right. You never know. Great. So that's like a month that gives a lot of time but you know if I get it out and that's a couple days. Okay. All right. And then the special act we're waiting. It's been referred to us but only after it goes through finance. So that's not something we have to worry about right now. Mandy wanted to check in with you the rubric is that now off the table does that need to come come. Is that been dealt with the matrix that had gotten there was like a referral to us about the. For the interviews. For the interviews we haven't dealt with that referral in jail yet so it's not off the table it's just not. It's not necessary for the current set of appointments that are advertised. Okay I guess I'm just trying. I'm just trying to make sure that we don't have to wait for the meeting time for next week because there isn't a ton that is that would it be okay to bring it for next time. Okay. Right. And then I'm just going to look at my still sharing screen or no. No. I'm sorry I need to step away for just a minute. Sure. Just peeking at this real quick. Now you're sharing screen. Yes, I meant to. Yeah, okay. Making sure. Okay. Oh goodness, Pakistan and India Independence Day is there I haven't. Okay. Shalini talked about that at the last. At the first. No, at the August ending or something right. So I'm not, she's the one that wrote it and sponsored it last year so. I'll talk to her about whether she's going to continue, you know, whether she wants it done again. Okay. All right. So, and, okay. Yeah, I'll talk to her. And then October. Do you know if the Middle Eastern cultural holiday has a proclamation. We've never done one since I've been on the council. Okay. Okay. And then small business Saturday. Is that just an event? That's not a necessarily a proclamation, right? It's been a proclamation. Talk to the chamber and bid. I forget if last year's the year it was revised to be a little more local specific. Okay. Or whether the goal was to, oh, we should make it that way. We should make it a little more specific. And then we can send it to the chamber and bid that do it, not CRC. And so they need more time. Okay. So maybe I send this. Yeah. All right. Yeah. This one's very basic. And so send it to chamber and bid and say, do you want revisions to this that make it. More Amherst specific local. Okay. Great. Cause I know last year, kind of wanted it more local, but we weren't going to do the work that we felt the chamber and bid should have to do that. We were going to do the work that we felt the chamber and bid. And I think that Nika had mentioned to me about Native American heritage month. So I think she's been in some conversations about with. Some folks about that. So I'll check with her about that. All right. I think that's about it. Unless there are any other items that haven't been anticipated. And I don't see anybody in the attendees. I guess I'll, oh, Athena, are you back? We'll have to wait. We'll wait for the adjourn until she's back. Definitely. Are you waiting for adjourn? Yeah, that's okay. Sorry. Hey, thank you, Athena. So I'm gonna adjourn at 10.39 a.m. Thank you. Good meeting. Yeah, great meeting. See, I said it wasn't gonna be a shining moment, but it did. But it was. Pretty darn good. Good. Have a good day. All right, bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you.