 boom All right, we did it Well, thanks for watching. I'll see you all oh wait, we're so I'm starting all this is the beginning beginning Wait a minute so much to begin for Mauler you just you just remember to hit record now. We've been going at this for like seven hours. We covered 7,000 videos It's such man. They were all bad. Yeah, and there was so many good memes and uh, oh well Now we got it. I don't work for another five hours Well, yes, you know awesome and something really Really strange to show you guys first real strange and very very unusual Um, I know as you're aware there are many platforms on this thing We call the internet and uh us boomers We're stuck on youtube and then by extension twitch and twitter and some others maybe but There's some spooky ones out there that I don't think any of us five have ever even looked into Do you know of one called tyke toke? against japanese What tyke toke sounds like the chinese off-brand version of a chinese off-brand version Oh, no, I remember when it first started and I was just like what a cringe platform people just like play music and Commentate or whatever. It's like oh, it's like hyper popular now even well, isn't it the same thing as vine back in the day? Yeah, it's just well vine v2. I guess but like it's also other stuff I don't want to pretend to like I seriously feel like maximum boomer on tick tock I'm just like, I don't know how it works. I don't know really what it's for I don't know why people are there, but they're all young people who are on it Like they name themselves after a shitty kesha song See, that's how you knew it was doomed to start with um Because youtube usually gets insulted because it's like wow you named yourself after the the creators, but you're not really about that Are you that's usually what the line is? twitter is just That's probably a good name actually You know how it goes tick tock Yes, goop is the good name. Oh goop's fantastic name. So someone dm me this I don't know who this guy is dub snap all facts is the the profile So cuz tick tock has an absolute garbage fucking uh, oh my god. Is that the url? That is the url Yes, oh boy. That's an actual url. Oh my god What I need you to do is to load up the page and then click the video and then pause it as soon as you can and try And get to the beginning so that we can have some form of a fucking sink because it's just absolute cringe How everything works here? Do you know I really hate you? Oh, this is the video Do I hate about user interfaces when they have a binary mute system like no slider? It's just like oh Now you're in for a treat and this is me thinking that these had they had the modern upper hand, you know Ticktocks or fresh new and hip Fucking mute or full volume. It's like thanks I can't I know I can't even play it. You can't scroll either. You have to like The way it works for me is that you hit refresh and then like it just automatically plays the video It zooms in and then you click it again. It pauses. That's what I've lid Wow, what a terrible website you should be ashamed of yourself. It's fucking horrible I'm assuming fucks. Even if someone was like, well, no, this isn't the app I'd be like, I don't they're still in control of the fucking browser vision. So get with the times. Yeah, this is the frame that I'm on oh, man Every time I play it hasn't even started yet for me Oh, you have to refresh it. Yeah, so oh if you guys can just try and get to as early in the in the videos You can by hitting refresh playing it and pausing it straight away if you can Dude, I There's not a slider bar on it. Nope Oh my god What a horrific platform. Yeah. Well, yeah, like I said YouTube seems to have the upper hand here, but uh Is everyone able because like what we're gonna do is try and sync at the near the beginning of his video Let him run it's it's about a minute long and then we'll respond to it after because Um, it's a nightmare to be able to sync pausing on this All right, this I guess this video is called youtuber. I think our asshole part two So english is clearly not his first language. No, so we got to cut him a little bit of snow. Yeah and um I was I was sent this and they said it's about you and I was like, okay Um, is everyone able once I hit it's like go to to press play near the beginning. Yeah, sure Yeah, let's take a look at uh All right, the excellent three two one go like and think our assholes. Let's fucking go Okay, uh, this is smaller if you don't like the new star wars movies. That's fine to each of their own However, this guy's just sad. He's just sad. He's talked about the last Jedi for six hours and Jesus Christ, I like the movie and I can't talk about it for six hours Jesus and they're all like fucking nitpicks. It's like I haven't watched a full video So they're all nip insufferable Why don't we just him talking about well, you know Luke says, uh, you know no one's from nowhere and then in the very next sentence He says jack who's from nowhere like make up your mind luke come on Just just get a life Jesus christ. Wow Oh god, I thought this was almost over But just thinking about these assholes Hurts me Fuck this is part two. So that's it. Um What what so I think your asshole because you built your asshole Thing on nothing. Yeah You talk about how that doesn't like that you talk about the jack who line I think almost most of it revolves around how the tone doesn't make any sense There's so much wrong with this to an attempt at comedy There's so there's so much wrong with this. Okay, so first of all his main argument is just long Which is like fantastic As a represent like criticizing someone else's content when all you did was just you do a rat video on your on your phone When you sit down in your room like excellent just dynamite This is the height of content. This is the height of content then claims doesn't watch the video But it knows it's full of nitpicks, right? And so He does something slightly better than most people. He gives an example now Ladies and gentlemen, I don't remember Saying what he said I said uh when I heard that I was like Wait the jack who line where he says, um Where like where you she says i'm from nowhere and he says nobody's from nowhere And she says jack who and then he goes. Okay, that is pretty much nowhere I remember having a like a five to ten range feeling about that line. I was like, uh, you know, not bad You know, but the the weird thing when I heard it in the film Was like, oh that felt a little bit weird coming out of that luke Because this luke seems so dour and depressed and hobo-ish that it's like it just seems so strange as you'd say it So I was like, well, this shouldn't be too hard to find right like it's just in the first tlj video Uh one sec Because he said that I said that it's a contradiction Like you shouldn't say that someone can nobody's from nowhere, but also the jack who's from nowhere That doesn't make sense. I was like that sounds like just not something I would say Yeah, it doesn't Can I look at the the comments? Oh, I have to log in to tiktok to look at comments or I don't know why is that the reply button? I guess I can't click that. Oh, that's to share youtubers. I don't like Yeah, I can't Yeah, I just want to I just want to look at comments. I don't want to make any I don't want yours even better garbage rags. If you go to a different tab and then return to it. It automatically starts playing Oh my god, you're right. Oh, fuck the chinese are awful Because I just pulled up the uh, I just pulled up the website. So In critics he hates Yeah, there's there's no bullshit and then you memento Then fomento can you see you and film into damn and Yeah, and fomento and then cinemasins and then youtube as I love one of them is mist sunday movies and the second one is cosmonaut variety hour How can you like film it? How can you hate how can you hate fomento but like cosmo? is it It's a strange world out there area there How's it not actually focuses on nitpicks in shorter reviews when he's talking about why something is bad Typically, yeah Um, you think he's just happy he noted something is everyone in the watch together because uh I'm gonna show you that part that he just he just talked about See here Is it should it be playing already not yet one moment? Okay Okay, here we go. So like I said his Uh coverage of this was that I thought it was a contradictory line and that i'm nitpicking the dialogue Let's see what I said I temple that's inside a tree and wants to know who she is They then have a back and forth and luke goes from this extremely gruff No nonsense disheveled man to cracking a joke here and there commenting on how nobody is from nowhere But jaku is indeed pretty much nowhere So now we are left to wonder if luke is actually just being difficult since he clearly is able to engage in levity Or is this just an attempt to keep the script from feeling too dull ray then says she needs that's it Hmm I'm I'm simply not actually Seems a little bit out of character considering what we've learned so far From to make a joke a lot of tea But it could be explained by the fact that they don't want the script to fall into a like a dower depressing Position so they throw a joke in here and there Literally nothing to do with the line being contradictory in terms of like Points being made just that it seems out of character for him Um Yeah, I guess we just another totally inaccurate comment made by someone who didn't do the research and doesn't really care Just you know, I bet that phone video is really tough to make I got five hours of coverage And he went to one position. He concluded the entire thing is nitpicks and he didn't even get it right And that concludes your asshole Like how about you go fuck yourself? Well, yeah, I was gonna say it's last concerning that he he managed to misrepresent my stuff It's more concerning that he's a huge fan of cosmonaut. It's like, oh no Well You're doomed He hates you And he hates fomento, but he likes cosmonaut What a bizarre I don't that was just like a one minute ramble that was worthless And it has like 12,000 views. I was like, how does tiktok even work? I don't I don't Yeah, and it's it's it's weird because it's like you're there sort of screaming as well Yeah, it's like he's really upset. He's doing the whole fuck Like you don't even watch the video. Are you okay? Oh, sorry. I gotta tell you man whenever people do the whole get a life thing It's like you people like you gotta what is wrong with you? Like what does it actually matter to you what somebody else does with their time? And this is like This is applied to all youtubers like when youtubers make several 10 minute videos over the course of a month as opposed to when we're taking A couple like a few months or so Rims a day every day like all the time Precisely, it's spent at the computer regardless um Yeah, like how I I mean because of course, it's like, oh, it's like oh six hours long It's like well, how many hours do you spend at work every day? It will spend like 40 hours working. Yeah, like he likes it. I can't even talk about it that much and I like it I'm like, wait, why is it that you liking something or hating something determines how long you'd talk about it? Long to talk about it. I imagine that you can't talk very long about any movie that you'd like to be honest Again impression. I would just argue. I can't talk very long about anything I don't feel much for it has to be like or hate like typically care about yeah Uh passion right well having reasons passion passion is subjective. Maybe he's just not as passionate about film as you are Well, this is the fundamental right like we talked about before but just uh, even one line from a from a movie can have you go in for Ages depending on what this does with a discussion goes Never been one to be like whoa guys. We've gone over the time limit. Stop it Don't you think we've talked about Mandalorian long enough? It's like 20 hours now in total for the two seasons and it's like well, we probably haven't covered everything But yeah, I guess yeah, we can always find more to talk about in fact, I guarantee we could well What I notice is like people mainly have an issue with it when you're picking apart their sacred cow Well, well he said it's okay to um It's okay to like not like the last Jedi or the sequels, right? And then he bitches about how you don't like him sort of I thought he was going to go on to Talk it about Zach Snyder stuff because that was in one of the hashtags on that link. Oh, maybe Maybe it's brought on by that Like maybe it is hashtag dceu hashtag Raw bat batten bat hashtag Film ticked. Yeah. He has fat. Yeah. He has hashtag dceu Um, well, you know what that's an easy segue. We're going to talk a lot about the dceu as time goes on Yeah, it's shit. It's really bad That's horrific. The most recent one we watched was Aquaman, right in the uh line up of movies. Yes Oh, yeah, Aquaman. We will want to check out some takes on Aquaman Now here is a straw poll that the the viewers at home will have access to when this comes out You have a choice Itop filmento just right captain midnight full fat videos and brown table all have videos on Aquaman Now You simply check the ones that you'd be interested in seeing. I know that's tough for the cast here They're probably not going to tick any of them, but oh, so we we vote We select all that apply All the ones that you'd be like, yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing that for example I I don't know that any of you want to watch another filmento video. Maybe maybe not I don't really know What you would do in that case is tick all of them except his and then what we'll do is release this to the good ole leaf app chat Like right now as this is premiering Uh, the future and then they'll be like, oh my god. I'm gonna choose You know full fat videos and brown tables. I hate the rest Yeah, honestly, it could be any selection of um any number just it's just gonna be interesting to see who ends up on top Once it releases to the public Um you actually want to put the straw poll in the description this time Uh Have I not done that before? That's in the description. So I think I think that this was um This happened in one of the e-fap movies or uh one of the pre-recorded e-faps where you said there would be a like a straw poll and um There wasn't there was never a straw poll in the description. It might have been an e-fap 124 possibly For what? To the book look thing No, no, no, no it was something completely different. I don't know if this was e-fap 124 or if it was the man of steel e-fap movies It it might have been the man of steel e-fap movies. Um If I remember seeing a lot of comments like mauler, where's the straw poll link? I think the problem with that is like There's probably gonna be a better time to do a straw poll for the dcu once it's over The arc is complete as in as complete as it can get once we get through the last three Oh, yeah Do what the audience think Well, I also want to amend something that I uh I I saw someone in the comments corrected a word that I used I said implacable when I meant intangible regarding what the martian man hunter can do Oh, um I I used the completely wrong word Saw a comment saying apparently in the planet that south lot comes from implacable means intangible I was like fuck. I used the wrong word. So There we go. All right Okay that I think does it uh, we're ready to The thing is there was a plan to watch um a certain video today But like I am really desperate to watch one ahead of it. That's so much funnier Like because I I tested out a little bit. So The reason I saw this one is because uh trash in Um, it was either the fragile thunder ass. I can't quite remember In discord where uh, they'd posted it and they were just they were taking some quotes out of it And one of the quotes they had I saw it and I was like, no Do they say that or that I played it? I was like, oh Um, this video is only 13 minutes. So perhaps we can get through it right relatively quick. Sure Um, it is the quintessential video essay. It is so awesome. And I love that stuff like this gets made uh Try to put this earnestly I guess because It just reminds me of like our jobs will never be over. There's there's always going to be more So first I want to show you the thumbnail And this is not a joke I mean, I agree It is but I agree with the technicality. I feel like the sentiment. I don't quite agree with but yeah, it's hard Generally speaking when you're telling something art, it's not just being descriptive like uh, like a movie It will always technically count as a piece of art. It's like this is seriously like amazing They mean to say that it's it is a particularly high example. Yeah, right ragged is on point He would argue this is art and civil war isn't This is key. Oh would he oh, has he he's well, I'm not gonna. I'm not saying that's something he said I'm saying that's what I would assume he would say. I think civil war comes up in this video Um, because this is the thing that's not as bvs is kind of a masterpiece. I don't know if you guys knew that Um, I didn't know that so it's nicked by me. You might even say it's This is the thing. It's so funny to us because we do it the reverse way So they would be like it's a masterpiece master work. It has so many references to all these kinds of philosophical fundamentals It is art while we would be like it is art, but it's really shit Like you know, we we go the different direction with the conversation. Um So yeah, like I said, it's got so many trappings of of classic video essay bullshit So i'm very happy it feels very one-on-one for you if I have to go through this one Not too long and it is called a modern masterpiece. Why batman versus superman is a true work of art Hmm true True work. I way prefer checking out true works of art than those fake ones What about you guys? Yeah, fake art is shit. I hate the banana on the wall. That's fake art, but this That's fake art This is true art, so uh, I have I have watered my jabs. I'm ready to go. Here we go piano music, let's see Oh, we start with a we start with a quote Quick hold up. Yeah Go back hold up. Okay. Oh All right, okay, here we go It's difficult to find a movie that feels true to itself You feel the hand of hollywood the movie making by committee on everything right, um, um Okay So some I mean There are people out there who would discount anything with like a plus 100 million dollar budget Like like in terms of being able to reach that level that is being referred to in this statement Like a movie won't be true to itself if it's got a bazillion different people funding it and pushing it to be different things And I think the last thing that ever gets considered This level is fucking the most mainstream highly funded superhero movies. They're usually not allowed in this team Um, that's like sci-fi movies aren't allowed to win proper anatomy awards We on e-fab are much kinder than that. We're like, well, what is it? Let's have a look see what's in it What did it do? I don't really care who made it or how it was made. I just want to know what it is Because is the implication that a committee could never make something good, which is dumb Well, it is and similarly are you is the implication that a person a no one can ever have a bad vision Yeah, because I mean all you need to do is look at like the fan fiction people right to know that people who are just given Whatever they will you know who just do whatever they want just because you have something to say doesn't mean that it's Worth while just because you have a passion doesn't mean you're good at that thing And what if um, you know, this guy is saying this about bvf and then zack snider in ten years comes out and says, you know what? I wasn't really involved at bvs Like I know A lot of people love it and they consider it like oh such a great movies I was just like, you know, I I didn't it didn't really have much of my input in it Then loads of behind the scenes stuff opens up like this 10 writers There was three directors doing different scenes at once And I'd just be like man your favorite movie was made by committee. How do you feel? I guess the committee got it right. Yeah So, um, yeah, this is very interesting to think about because it's like is the implication that like a A piece of media needs a central guiding vision because like video games for instance are incredibly collaborative as a process development Like that those are going through several people But there are still some really good games that came out of that process And there are some really bad games that one person made that nobody told him what he could do And I would argue Feels true to itself. That's way too vague for me I'd be like, can you um, give me more specific? I guess generally I would probably prefer that a director have more of an influence over their film than less um Generally, yeah, generally. Sure. It might be interesting more interesting. It's more different I don't think you can write it off because it was interfered with And of course, it depends on the director right like when Ed right was doing ant man I would have preferred it if they didn't interfere at all because I trust him as a director But like Zack Snyder is a different story. Well, we get so many dramatic ironies in terms of like Oh Wonder Woman 84 that was her own project. Oh Prometheus alien covenant. That's just Ridley getting his own shit done and it's like, uh Okay, and then you know civil wars we've been over before is one of those movies that are producers People who like push the writers to do particular things they applied restrictions one of them being Tony has to be in the story and it's like, oh But I think that made it way better So your restrictions restrictions can be helpful in terms of writing Yeah, it can be helpful or it can be destructive like well the good example that I think we talked about a lot Venom must be in spider-man 3 Like if that that's your requirement And then you also decide that you also want to keep sand man and green goblin purse as the director. It's like, oh How much of that is your fault than then for the outcome? And then you know, someone might be like, well, you should have gotten rid of of us. No, you shouldn't have made him do venom It's like, well, you shouldn't have done sand man. I don't know like I'm paying for the movie You know, yeah, yeah, he's faulted is as an explanation not an excuse Yes So I feel like around like for the past many years The sentiment was the more control and the more the writer director role is respected the more better Like better stories will get I think now it's like, oh, fuck. I don't know I don't know. It seems to be a bit of a perfect storm. You really need talent You need to work really hard and the one thing that will come back to every time is make it make sense Please just make it make sense. Like you appeal to that fundamental You're probably gonna be steered in the right direction relatively I swear you won't end up with the chair in the room story You won't you can get some really interesting things happening when you make stuff make sense Um, whether a committee or a writer director or two people or 10 people whatever just trying to focus on making everything streamlined Making sense running in cause and effect. Yes You know, you said this video is only 13 minutes. We'll probably get through it fairly quickly and here we are three seconds in Just well, it was a quote So you can dig for a while. Let's see how he's got visuals coming rags. It's gonna be so epic. Check it out I like textuals For us it's like a remember remember remember like yeah, I remember all the scenes. Oh my goodness I remember the bat dream. I think it was a dream. All right the bat time dream Because it's not complicated enough It's like we need to confuse the audience more I wish that he included the shot of the granny's pht in this. Oh, yeah It's one of the the greatest cinematic achievements All right part one setting the scene I wonder if the use of times Roman was deliberate That's a very high. It's a very high. Well, you know times new roman is like the proper Yeah, this was the first beginning to a video essay though. What is it? It's like, oh fuck here we go Because I could only imagine they'd bring this up to keep certain things out of this category, right? He's gonna try and prop up bvs and throw other things down so go here. We go Let's go this way. I'm probably gonna be really disappointed with his definition of I I don't even We actually talked about this We did recently, but um, yeah, um, however Maybe it's best for this if we let him give his first. Oh sure. Yeah. I just say what's wrong with it You know, I'm yeah, because I'm I'm very like I'm not committing to anything with with the term I try to avoid using it just because it's uh, it becomes very gate keeping for a lot of people And I'm just like, okay. I'm just I'm just talking about this movie then you guys do the other thing Um, but yeah, like if we get to I'm assuming he's gonna use the words genuine true actual stuff like that Just just letting us sit here without yeah his art How should we as a modern audience approach the genre of film? How should filmmakers go about creating your film medium film? Yeah, it's not a genre. Oh should filmmakers create art. Oh Oh, I'm ready for that I'm excited for this one. Yeah, I actually love this right like that one of the things that's often levied And uh, e-fap is the idea. They're just like imposing a lot of restrictions on writers But like I don't think any of us would say that there is a way that you should create ours I think we have found the Uist restrictions that can allow the most freedom while also being something that can be applied consistently I don't know the any other system than the one we use has those attributes Like I think that if you hear us say it should make sense as a horrible limitation I don't know what to say man. Like I don't think that's a huge limitation to say that it should just make sense I think that's a pretty decent low bar In a lot of the conversations that I have when people are so I actually used the meth bear analogy with someone at work the other day and He's like well But if you piss off the meth bear and force it to chase you back to the campsite That's more interesting than you just simply turning around quietly and getting gun and killing the meth bear I'm like, okay So you lack imagination you can have it where you're trying to sneak away You're trying to do the smart thing and I don't know because you're in a forest You step on a on a branch Yep creates a loud sound and the bears alert to your location and now there's a chase scene Simple you get your payoff of the meth bear chasing the guy as he hurries over to his campsite to grab his meth bear killing 50 caliber sniper rifle Um, and the guy is still acting as competently as he can. Hey, it's our fiction. Make it 5 5000 caliber Yeah, absolutely. We'll we'll do that too um Yeah, that's funny to me because if your if your story is just the guy gets a milkshake and comes home I'd be like, you might want to spice that up a bit. Maybe add some Tension as I was like, well, it makes sense. Doesn't it mr. E fat mr. Objective. Isn't it perfect as it is? I'd be like, all right There's someone out there who might enjoy the milkshake story I just I'm I'm bored with that's kind of the whole point of us talking about what the variables are the multipliers because Yeah, you go. What if there's a dragon in that milkshake story? It's like, okay This is gonna get real complicated real fast. Like where did the dragon come from? What does it have to do with this guy? What's it gonna do? Is it gonna kill him? Like that's a myth dragon. Is this a fantasy world? It's like, okay, remove the dragon All those variables have gone back down to just he goes to the shop picks up milkshakes. Like, oh, that's much easier But it's so much boy Guy's a diabetic and has uh, his blood sugar is running low And there's a ton of obstacles in the way of him getting his milkshake And we've become really invested in him getting his milkshake at the end of the day That's the thing make I think any story interesting because interesting is quite a um A trait that's you know, you can appeal to it in so many different ways Uh, anyway, what should film why how should filmmakers create art? That's just yeah, give it to us. I'm excited Give it's difficult to get her the genre of film a form of art when it's married to an industry That couldn't care less about the artists Don't agree No couldn't care less like nah Yeah, I yeah, I don't agree with that at all. I think uh, maybe two it's detrimental sometimes. I mean we have Wonder Woman 84 I I don't think that in the 21st century. There is any contention that filmmaking as a is an art form. I think that Um, what's been going through the like that sort of growing pains recently has been video games um, that's more uh contentious with some people like Roger Ebert believe that video games aren't all right, but he was wrong I know he was wrong. That's the idea is but like Roger Ebert would never say He wouldn't be caught dead saying that um filmmaking isn't art No Uh, like of any type. Yeah I I I guess I'm more interested as well in the idea that like it's a problem of valuing the Artist as is understood by the industry because a lot of the time, you know, you're just a producer sitting in your room You're like, oh this uh, this force awakens film that made loads of money. Who's the guy who made that? It's like JJ Abrams. Like, whoa, what an incredible artist. Let's get him more stuff more money And it'd be like in a sense they value the artist in that whatever pleases the crowd the most Which by the way is a metric for uh, some people use for how good a piece of art is It's how many people and how happy they were And so like we're gonna have to get into so many definitions But like as far as I'm concerned this um is a problem now in that it's like I feel like there's more awareness of the writers and directors now than there was even 10 years ago for a lot of people It's like most people knew Tarantino Spielberg and lots of other names But now loads of names. We're we're hyper aware and I think we've talked about it before but whenever there's a new project It's like, well, who's making it? Like I don't really care like the project name or who's gonna be in it. I'm like, who's writing it And who's directing it? Yeah, like I would be excited for a sequel to into the spider-verse But that's being written by the guy that did Wonder Woman 84 Well, yeah, like a good example that like phil lord and and christopher miller like whatever they're working on If something i'm gonna be interested in Yeah, because the reverse example is um, oh you guys want to go see lego movie like not really it's like Well, it's made by those uh creatives who are behind this and you're like, oh Yeah, I guess okay I wasn't interested in the junk street movies until I thought that lord miller were involved. Yeah It's uh I would argue there is actually more of a focus on the artist in the film industry now, but it's getting a little bit corrupted in terms of a producer only sees dollars Um, but then you also have the whole like, you know what happened with um, see what not so that's called fantastic for I guess with uh ant-man to a degree and some other ones where they hire people who are known for making really good indie films That make loads of money Or just successful movies where they're they're the right director they bring them on and then they crush their uh freedoms Like you have to argue at some point. Oh, well, they value the artist in some way or shape or form there They just thought that they had the better idea on what should be done Because I find it interesting right our idea work The idea that they don't value the artist when their whole goal is like Well, we want to find the best artist to make us the most money, you know So technically speaking they do value the getting the artist the the best Yeah, I I'm not going to be too broad, but Like I'm sure there's a lot of uh, this guy. I think snider is a great artist He's got given full freedom on now three major movies that cost over like 200 million each With you're all terrible Well, um, and like what reason do you think Warner Brothers had for hiring Joss Whedon after Zach center stepped down The Avengers and Age of Ultron precisely. Yeah Well, especially the Avengers. Yeah So, yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't agree fully I think there's problems in how the artist relates to the industry and film and hollywood and stuff But the idea that they couldn't care less about them Nah, that's way too cynical for me and I'm pretty cynical There's a reason they don't pick up people off the street. Yeah Constantly fed pieces of amusement and propaganda that has with fed pieces of amusement and propaganda Used to promote or publicize a particular political Basically a lot of art could be if you're going to use that definition of pro Especially if a bias to misleading nature, that's probably the most important Yeah, you'd have to stories want to promote he highlighted the wrong section of that definition He'd have to prove this as well with with whatever examples because I might be willing to agree on some but certainly I have a feeling not all Um, also the state of experience of finding something funny or enjoying So he's saying like a provision of enjoyment because provides entertainment You know like Batman and Robin he'd be like, that's not art. That's simply amusement I'd be like, okay gatekeeper stop stop Yeah It brings to be great merriment. And if someone was like, yeah, but it's not art, right? I'd be like, uh, why do you Of course it is. Why do I get the bat nipples or art fight me? It was like Oh speaking of which, uh, I think that um, it's quite likely that George Clooney's Batman is the only live action Batman that hasn't killed anyone You sure I need to watch by the cover of the cover if you killed he would Michael Keaton in the first movie drops a bomb that kills like a dozen people. He kills the Joker He kills at least two guys in Batman Returns like Grin statistically before kicking him down a hole. So he blows himself up You know, uh, lights a dude on fire with the afterburner on the batmobile and then a val kilmer kills two face basically And then well, he kills Someone else in that movie at a different point because I had that argument on twitter with uh someone They were like, he didn't kill two face because two face fell off for his own clubziness Okay, what was Batman's plan then way through all those coins They said the plan And ironically they said the plan was to throw the coins and to make him drop all of the coins Thus not being able to flip the coin. Thus he can't shoot anyone Okay, so then why didn't he try to save two face wet while he was falling to his death Do what well, yeah Anybody was acting in good faith watching that scene. Batman was happy to let him die. He was like, yeah, fuck you. You're dead Um, but someone already highlighted that he kills someone else at one point in that movie like thug wise Also, two face shoots people without flipping the coin in that movie. So Also, two face flips the coin repeatedly until he gets that as a result he wants that have a 50 chance of igniting Two yeah, two faces full of shit that movie. He keeps flipping until he gets the the outcome he wants It's not yeah, he has other people load his magazines half and half with blanks and real bullets One of his lackeys, but he says don't tell me don't tell me I just want to highlight if people want to use adaptation arguments regarding batman killing. I mean Well, we should all aim for batman and robin's axlons. I would say Again, it is the most enjoyable batman movie I've ever seen. I love it. It's too good I want them to bring back on us as mr. Freeze and something he deserves it I was gonna say this earlier and got cut off But why do I get the feeling that this video is going to assert that everyone that's criticizing this movie for being too Like needlessly grimdark. They're just too stupid to understand the really deep themes and substance of batman v superman I think you can guarantee he's gonna tell a lot of things I'm I'm getting Yeah, any major pretentious vibes from this one. Well, it's so great because we've done the twin perfect thing You guys I'm referring to chat Have seen what happens when they are faced with the idea that their themes are shot on by their own content They don't know what to do is cognitive dissonance. They explode. It's yeah, they don't realize crazy That there's a difference between executing it well and not even though that that concept's like in their brain They've not addressed it. They're just like no bvs. Did it right? It's like, oh, but what about this like excluding that Excluding that Beautiful or true, how can we call a film good? Zack Snyder's justice league is just over the horizon and I could not be more excited Sorry It's because the pause button is so Yeah, yeah, I told you No, I I believe in a great the only problem ever comes up is if we don't know where we were but we do know where we were Batman face not even a minute in Uh, a lot of people are very excited for this Snyder cut. We are to a degree. I know our fads are Listen, I said to a degree. It could be 0.000000 or what was that excited? Um, I'm excited to get it over with Yeah, I mean, I'm just super curious through the roof curious What's gonna happen? um, as for, you know We now know why this video was made he's a big fan of Bvs and Snyder's stuff and he just wants to I don't give it a fair shake. I guess. Let's have a look see It's nice to see people all over the world united over this and it has certainly been my pleasure United united No, I think we have a very different definition of what united means if I united you mean horrifically shattered opinion wise I agree. We're united. I was gonna say I thought that everyone accepted this is not a united at all It's that there's a significant amount of people supporting it and then people deriding it for being like embarrassing and stupid I mean just the joker jesus image alone the reaction to that Well, he see all the people mocking that uh, that promotional image I assume my timeline is biased, but uh, I've seen more mocking than like, oh my god So excited and I've seen exciting posts, but I've mainly seen mocking posts I mean like Okay, so cosmonauts got this huge fan base and he mentioned like this movie's gonna make him rich like he's expecting to shit on it right Well, I mean we're expecting to show on it, but I've never that's never been a component of like wow You're so unfair. It's like well. No, if it's good I'll always refer back to the batwoman episode where they had a good scene and we were all blown away by the good scene Because we're all waiting We have to absorb wonder woman 1984 Yeah, yeah, we have the same thing. Um, I Like like snider cut could be good. I just have no reason to expect that whatsoever In fact, I'm hoping for the opposite at this point because I get a lot of amusement from zack snider films. They're very funny There there are you you just you just admit it to being biased and wanting the movie to be bad Well, I'm hoping for a good experience. I can get that from it either being hilariously stupid or I just hope it's funny bad. Yeah, but you know because it ain't gonna be good I just want its badness to be funny. Oh, look at this This looks cool. God. He's look at his eyes rags. Isn't that scary? That's pretty bad. Yeah, that is spooky. Oh, you know, you have the capital o opinion's eyes If only oh, yeah, he's not here. He couldn't make it. I'm afraid But uh, he'll be back for the inevitable next thing that we do in this arc, whatever it be He'll be back To play a small event In preparation for the film. I thought it would be a good idea to talk about its predecessor Personally one of my favorite movies of all time. Oh, that's damning indictment of yourself justice Damning indictment of yourself. Oh It's such a strange feeling though, right because like we're in an environment where it's just like bvs Is a clown movie, but there were people out there who like this is one of the gross pieces of all ever made You're like, oh my god Batman v Superman is a beautiful and unique experience It really this really reminds me of like the arc that the prequels went through where They came out and uh, correct me if i'm wrong, but There were a number of people that were critical of them even as they were coming out Especially like ot fans Of course, like when people first saw the Phantom Menace, they were hyped They they had never thought they'd seen a bad Star Wars movie before the attack of the clones came out People were critical Revenge of the Sith came out and like, you know, that was well liked enough, but Everyone acknowledged that they weren't as good as the original trilogy And then the plinket videos came out and everyone agreed. Yeah, they were really really shit And then there's been this Kind of redemption arc they've been going through because of the sequel trilogy And like, you know, maybe we were too hard on the prequels and Yeah, exactly I mean, yeah, there's worse. There's worse Uh, I think that's definitely an element of big-ass mosquitoes over there Oh, yeah, there's a watch That was I think that there is an element of like counterculture that is informing this because An additional suggestion to that one for me, I think we talked about it before but the concept of like A room full of all the people talking about this movie reduced down to 100 And then over time the people who don't like it exit that room because they want to talk about other shit The people who love it stay in that room forever. They're like, no, this is one of the greatest things ever It's so fucking and over time that ratio of people who were talking about how bad it was and people who talk about how good It was changes over to favor the good I think the same happened with the prequels because most people have moved away Then we Are one of many different types of people who come into that room like, yeah, let's check it out Like oh, this is horrible and all the people in the room like hey, no, no Yeah, and then we encourage some of the people who left years ago to come back in the room and be like no It is though. It is horrible. Like come on Yeah, uh Right now Snyder movies are going through this Re-examination and you know what they like to do like, you know, people have been too harsh They didn't understand it and here we go. I'm gonna break it down in 10 minutes Why it's the greatest piece of art in the history of Okay Well, we'll be right. I don't know if this is You go ahead I was just gonna say we'll have an exhaustive like 20 hour sequence for both man of steel and bvs going through every single problem And then we talk to a creator that's considered one of the top in terms of defending or explaining the zack's knight of movies And he fumbles to even explain like what writing should be at all And how death of the author is a stupid concept It's like this is the next level Yes or no. Yes or no. You guys watch lemmy. Well, I wish we did No Yeah, but um YouTube is now going to start deducting us taxes from creators who do not live in the us Yeah Hmm Is that Yeah, you just need to submit your tax info on adsense and then they won't take the money Most countries have uh tax treaties with the united states So with those tax treaties you can either reduce or just outright zero out any tax that the us Takes and then just pay tax where you are Okay So it's pretty pretty straightforward. I've seen people on twitter. They're like they take You know like oh taking my money like why should I pay tax in the us? It's like it's not that you should it's a us-based company So they have tax obligations in the united states like it's not that complicated It doesn't matter if you live in like i don't know argentina or something Or whatever Sidenote for modern audiences and was certainly ahead of its time. Oh, by the way, he called it beautiful It's not it's one of the ugliest films. I've ever fucking seen it's like man of steel It makes me sick when I watch it It was interesting to be is that uh saying describing a movie is beautiful and unique I'd be like oh you could be talking about all movies. I'll just wait because The qualifier is that you thought it was beautiful and you found it to be unique Each meconium is beautiful and unique there Let's just hope he says something more specific Hi So Why does it get so much hate? Because it's shit, mate. You're in luck. We've got loads of coverage on why it's so good We we have no lives you see So we talk extensively about why these movies are horrifically bad. I wish these movies were made by a committee Yeah, the main reason would be absolutely incompetent like this is an umbrella tube Like so much mechanically falls the fuck apart and I don't care what he's referencing philosophically I couldn't care any fucking glass. It doesn't matter to me Pretentious bites off more than it can chew It assumes that it's smarter than it really is you have a plot that's run on um a character Crafting this impossibly ridiculous plan that can only work if everyone's an idiot and luckily for him. Everyone is an idiot You have main characters Uh night like neither of the main characters batman and superman are likable in this Um, they're not like we just don't care about to end up in the payoffs either Uh, unfortunately, but again like it's got references to things and so I'm just curious if we could take any bad movie He hates and just apply some uh Well anything right like just I'm just summing up I'm just summing up why it gets so much hate. There's a lot of reasons to hate this movie The thing is everything you said doesn't address like the great deep the philosophical Lens that this film is is forcing its viewers to see the will through and so he's probably gonna assume you've missed the point Of course, we always miss the point I mean it was it was it was said to us in person. It's like don't you understand that's not the point of the scene and you're like, oh All right In order to understand why this film seems to be universally hated I believe that a close examination of the context in which it exists is an order I'm sure the context. Yeah, the context will definitely Turn this into a quality film The year is 2016. Marvel movies are at the peak of their popularity When some I guess they were at their peak in that on that day, you know, but Yeah endgame was definitely the peak for now Someone spoke of superhero movies images of iron man captain america and thor were on everyone's hearts and minds Sure where the dark knight was considered to be a good film, but also a relatively safe one Man of steel safe. No The dark knight was pretty Groundbreaking and how mature it was for a superhero film. I don't like the way it's safe I need to know specifically what he's referring to because a lot of people were like to refer to as like a gamble So you don't know that the audience will receive the thing while depending on what you do And then a lot of people use that as an excuse for films that do shit They're like, oh, yeah, it wasn't a safe film. It went places, you know, it took risks And you're like, uh, don't use the took risks excuse, please The dark knight is often attributed to the trend of superhero films getting darker and more mature quote-unquote Was um, when did the watchman come out? 2009 But oh, we were talking about the the the book right the comic book No, no, no the the film because that's another one you could argue added to that, right? From zack. Yeah, but it's an adaptation of a very mature comic book True, um, but it being viable is what would be encouraging people to be like, oh, we can do this I suppose because the killing joke came out before the dark knight did and I mean, yeah That was a tribute to comics becoming more more mature and gritty, um Yeah, I don't know. I don't like the whole safe comment Like if someone said like, yeah, of course, you know x movie in the MCU did well, it's safe. What does that mean? formulaic, um I I remember when like when rachel got killed in that movie and I was at first I was like, holy shit. They really went there Yeah, yeah, they killed off that man's love interest. Uh, you know what's funny I would I think rags you initially said this about wand divisions last episode or at least as it went on it became more of a Like the marvel sludge Yeah, it became marvel sludge the funny thing about that I guess now is that that might be what is considered safe when like everyone hates it Everyone's like boo, we don't like the marvel sludge right now. Like give us something better You know what I would say it is like safe is a very The concept keeps changing, right? I I wouldn't say that everyone hates wand division I mean, there's a lot of people that liked that horrible fucking finale Which I think is the worst thing that the MCU has made Sure, but like the ire I've seen for that episode outweighs most of what marvel usually gets Um in releases at least on social media like I don't I'm sure the general audiences loved it You know, maybe they still do love the marvel sludge But when the first few episodes were coming out people were complaining it's boring and then those people are Evil. Yeah, they literally they were they were literally promising. Don't worry like later on There's going to be more of that standard marvel action that you've come to expect from us. I'm like, oh, no And that's the thing they didn't do that in response to people complaining because it was already done it's just the sad fact of like Yeah, they break out of their shell briefly and then it's like go back in. I want the sludge give me Oh, yeah, I know like it's obviously not reacting to the people complaining. It's just that the fact that They know that what people want is the marvel sludge And so if if we agree that that's what safe is Um, I would say that ant man and the wasp type movies apply. I don't think civil war does Um But the thing is like everyone's going to be different on that I suppose like what counts as marvel sludge Because a requirement for me is usually that it is pretty much substance less Just like it's just bullshit just to allow your typical payoffs to happen be they action or character go And you know what I've learned something today It's that you shouldn't be mean But everyone has a different, uh Category for what safe is so I suppose we'll find out what his is Steel had been released and was widely considered to be a failure Despite loyal fans of superman and the overall dc universe vouching for it I don't care fans vouching for it. That's interesting. Well like so kind of by definition. Yeah I mean if you're a loyal fan, you will vouch for it. Loyal fans of anything will vouch for it um, so that doesn't mean anything And I'm just if you really like man of steel and you think it's good. I just I I have issues with your ability to assess quality in media Yeah, uh, so I yeah your opinion doesn't mean that much to me Steel in many ways was a prelude to the controversy that awaited its infamous sequel At this point in time there was a formula for these action films And marvel studios had perfected it Well Oh god, now I look foolish I don't know about yeah, I know right? Uh, it happens all the time, but um, but yeah I I ain't gonna say that the marvel films had The marvel films had perfected it No, I put it pretty scattershot This I guess that was when iron man three and four two came out Yeah, this I guess is where we're at with this conversation part two So this marvel sludge we're talking about Thor two and iron man three are not the same marvel sludge for me Thor two is totally what I would consider marvel sludge But iron man three is a fucking annoying terrible movie made by somebody who had their own vision on screen It's like a ryan johnson type of deal It's almost like oh, well It's still marvel sludge though. I should be like, I don't know. I don't know that I consider that way I don't consider like a bland sequence that gets you to all of the payoffs that are in an mcu movie on average It does a lot of weird things and it does them really poorly Um This whole formula thing like I don't even understand that anyone could agree with this from like a more in-depth look because Iron man one's beloved. Iron man two shot on quite a bit. Um, Thor is liked Captain America's really liked And then incredible Hulk like nobody likes to the point. They might even forget it It's like this seems like a completely different set of you know, you know, I mean like like, oh Formula like I don't know. It's all over the place, isn't it? This is why like the conversation gets weird about this, but I can you can see where he's going The axe knight is going to be against that formula and that's why audiences are having trouble with this Audiences are so used to this sludge Was a prelude to the controversy that awaited its infamous sequel At this point in time, there was a formula for these action films And Marvel Studios had perfected it Nope write a mediocre safe story The Avengers is not mediocre Iron man's not mediocre. I need some I need some definitions I would say the Avengers is the least mediocre out of the first phase The things people look back on it and they might say that compared to maybe like the more complex I need to know what they mean by mediocre. Do they mean simple? Do they mean retreaded? Do they mean Low stakes What are we saying? I don't know what mediocre means Imagine in this context standing on your hill that you are dying on About bvs being great and calling something else mediocre. Well, yeah This is the thing. I think there are contexts that we might be able to agree certain elements or something about Avengers is mediocre. A lot of people like to go for the lighting which I don't Take issue necessarily with it's a little flat show, but uh the The idea that you proper bvs like all right, so now I'm confused I just need to know what the scale is but sure mediocre at least it's safe as well Is there something wrong with doing safe stories? Is it not artistic to do that? And what is a safe story? What if a safe story is what an artist wants to do? What if that vision is just a safe vision? It's it's not not every idea has to be groundbreaking and risky Is walley not safe? What is uh, what is the original star wars if it's not safe? I don't know. This is the thing. I'm confused because if he was here I'd be like, so what how do you define a safe piece of artwork? Like farm boy Saves the princess and blows up the the big bad space station Like that's a really safe crowd-pleasing story. There's a reason why it's everyone fell in love with it Yeah, it's a cornerstone of media like that movie So to be like, I don't know if I call star wars safe when it came out We'll see that's the thing Is there something that evolves over time in which case you have to look at avengers in relation to everything that came out around it I don't know probably because when my parents talk about when star wars first came out It was they they've never seen anything like it before it blew them away. It was surreal So well, I'm talking about the story if we strictly talk about the writing beats I think it would have to qualify as safe in terms of it's a very standard I guess it's a very arched like arched typical Fairy tale It's just that yes, but like that's kind of where I'm going with this I don't see why safe is If that's what safe is why is safe bet is the Mona Lisa safe? Like I don't know I mean, it's pretty secure at the Louvre. So I'd say it's safe To me it comes across a pretentious. You're like look at you with your safe art. What was that mean? What are you suggesting? I don't look into the edgy stuff enough because if he's saying Zach is edgy, you know what? I'm not gonna disagree on that one Show out dollars to make the movie care for the next one Marvel stage, that's what Batman Batman v Superman was that was this is what the dce he was doing too Well, this is why the context is strange to me. It's like you you do get like the dcu They spend hundreds of millions to make hundreds of millions. That's what it is If you want me to admit that by the mcu, it's like well the dcu totally counts for that too Um, like age of Ultron did this Tasm 2 did this Um, bvs did this well if they were like, well, you don't think civil war was made to make loads of money I'd be like, well, of course. I don't see why that would stop it from having a good story though Yeah I don't know why you're bringing all this shit up like oh look at the soulless muddy projects Marvel with your save stories to make the movie care for the next one Marvel stayed at least five steps ahead from the movie it was working on you say it was five steps ahead It just it's just steps ahead. It was the most normal start ever We want to make a team of heroes. We give them each a movie and then we make the team Yeah Five steps ahead. It seemed like yeah, like it just seems like an idea that makes sense to me I don't think everyone was too risky with that Well, it probably meant in the fact that like they started a lot earlier So they had a lot more time to do this rather than so dc makes their first movie after Marvel's already done their first big team-up movie. The funny thing about that I think like Russia is the Avengers came out in 2012, right? Um, yes for 2021 now. We could have had the Thanos equivalent and game movie for the dcu at this point Uh, had they done it all reasonably instead of fucking around Like you get Go ahead like so you in on 2013 even your Batman and Superman movies can come out Next year the next two Wonder Woman Aquaman something like that Then their team up movie the year after then all of their sequel movies in the following few years and then You know, you you can cram it to a point where it would it would probably function and Batman and Superman should sell themselves As long as you've got people writing good stories, you'll be fine Uh, I think they didn't have to play catch up is what I was saying Yeah, because time-wise it would be perfect for them now to put out their biggest movie while Marvel is like, I know resting I guess Uh, yeah reassessing their things like oh look now these it's dc's turn now we can Do our finish for all the things That's probably part of the point of doing Snyder cut now because it's uh It's something they don't have to release in cinemas anyway They can get a lot of testing on it and there's no Marvel properties to really compete with it necessarily If you count well, which is funny. Falcon woods a soldier. I think comes out the day after yeah, there you go. Um, so I promise their characters are still shit. So well, absolutely, uh They're writing so bad. That's what just never carries them and I just think it's it's amusing because like the general audiences Like this is the thing if you ask the average person, I'm not even sure they know If you went, oh my god, I can't wait for the Martian manhunter movie and then they're like, oh, is that like Is he teaming up with Iron Man at any point and you're like no you're like, oh, why is that? Like most people just I would argue that the mcu isn't even their um, their enemy Back in 2012 it should have been the we can ride off of their success because we'll be marketing in very similar ways Let me level with you like honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people thought Aquaman was Marvel Like that wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people. Yeah I can see people thinking about making money imagine they were successful They had their own version of Avengers a few years after the the actual Avengers And then they strike a deal with the two companies to have a crossover multiverse fight between the like holy shit Think of the dollars you silly company. I want to see Batman fight spider-man. Yeah And the vanilla cut and dry and safe Up until captain america's civil war there hadn't deviation from this formula, but that's interesting. I mean We're to say that civil war was the first deviation from the formula. I don't know that that's what he's implying I think he's implying including civil war Oh including civil war it was after civil war that you got like Thor Ragnarok or something you sure Well, let's see. Let's see what he says. Yeah, we could roll the back It was working on and the movies were all very vanilla cut and dry and safe Up until captain america's civil war there hadn't been much deviation from this up until I don't know, but remember he's been using language incorrectly. Anyway, so like i'm not I'm still gonna take his we need to play more of what he says is what i'm trying to say like past what he says here I want to see what he says about civil war Okay But even civil war played it safe with its story All right, no, then he said he played it. I was about to say yeah, he just fuck's sake So he went from it was it was formulaic until civil war, but even that was formulaic. It's like Yeah, I uh, I don't know what argument to argue again. I was gonna say what the fuck do we make of that? And too many people talk about the marvel formula without talking about the marvel formula, you know Everyone likes to label it. It's like, what do you mean when you say that? Because I know for a fact that you don't think iron man is as good as ant man. So What is this formula that you're talking about? You mean the other way around you don't think ant man is as good as iron man. No, either way works All right. Yeah, all right Not allowing characters to suffer any of the consequences that the marketing suggested they would Don't get me wrong. I'm not here to continue Okay, uh rhodes crippled. Um, well, wait needs Half of our avengers are criminals. The funny thing is I partially agree, but it's not civil war's fault. It's uh Civil war gave you a whole new world to build on Yeah, I mean look what just happened with wandivision like it's not in fact that I guess And that whatever he was single one was fluid. Yeah. Yeah, it's not infinity worse It's not infinity worse fall that basically everything that happened in that movie is being undone Like what's next heimdall is going to get resurrected, right? Hopefully, you know robo heimdall Guess it's a movie. Hey, yeah Yeah, because like the most you get is when tony is like we lost because of your fuck up in civil war and for a moment An end game you're like, oh, but then it gets dropped after they have a chat quick and it's like, oh, okay That was like the best scene in that whole movie There's a timeline of the mcu that I want a movie for and I don't think we're ever gonna get it with There's a team of avengers run by cap who are all vigilantes and there's a team of official ones They're endorsed by the government That would have been really cool Really cool I wish they'd all made a movie for it and you could have a threat that they all Have to deal with and and you know You have the horrible choices of like do we work with cap when you know Just all these different questions that can come up infinity war just tickled with it played with it a little bit But uh, we skipped over that timeline for the most part. That's not civil war's fault Civil war set you up and gave you all the consequences I hate when people say there's no consequences. The fucking avengers have been split in half Half of them will be arrested if they're seen again. How is that not consequence? I think that it'd be kind of needed. They brought back chris evans's cap for a movie in between civil war and infinity war Go ahead and do it. I'll watch that movie. I know All might say like black widow, but um, I don't know that anybody is in black widow except for black widow, so I think tony apparently robidani juniors gonna have a cameo in it Yeah, that's like oh boy. I'm worried. I'm so worried just Even when you're dead you could still be assassinated Never forget it And yeah, um a con the major consequence was supposed to be the the friendship between cap and iam I was supposed to be severed not to never be recovered, but I mean what they did with it was shit Uh Made of what could have been done and then um, yeah Like all these countries making it very clear to the superheroes of the world that we're not going to fucking tolerate this reckless defense anymore Mm-hmm. It's a major movie for the mcu. It's just not its fault that nobody built on it And you could say like well, it's the same makers as this like I don't care Ridley scott made alien primitius shut up I mean, I guess that's right It kind of bolsters this point that the mcu likes to play it safe and that they Radically alter the status quo at the ending of civil war And then just kind of ignore it in later movies as much as they can at least If he'd said that I would have agreed, but he said the civil war played it safe Precisely. So, yeah In any of these movies, but I think it has gotten to the point where people are mistaking escapism for genuinely good filmmaking Escapism can be genuinely good filmmaking Escapism is neutral to quality. It's also yeah easy to get like it can be applied to fucking everything that's like Even hobbies you can just escape for them, you know Confusing escapism for good filmmaking boo I don't what can we just reflect this back on him to that? Does he think that lore of the rings is not uh good filmmaking? Well, you might argue that it is both Great escapism and good filmmaking again. I'm just saying why can't we reflect this back on him with bbs? Like you're mistaking your escapism in bbs for good filmmaking Raiders of the Lost Ark is escapism um Minecraft is escapism Funny you mentioned I saw recently yms apparently gave relatively low ratings to the original indiana jones trilogy and his fans were very upset Low ratings he gave life. I think because it's an action film I think he gave them like a four five and six or four six and five uh the three indiana jones films I think I I should re-watch them, but I only remember enjoying them immensely I I just remember there's loads to compliment about the execution in those films But you know the writing might not be as good as I remember. I don't know Um, but I do know that I don't really mind him doing that But he uh, he put out a tweet. Yeah pretty furious with his fans for ripping into him for a A long time they had to delete a bunch of posts on his subreddit because everyone was very upset with him It's funny to me, right? Because like these are the people who get fucking pissed at us for saying that there's like a way to objectively do anything But at the same time they're like, hey your subjective thing is wrong Oh, well, I hope he's all right amusement for art amusement for art like Do you think there was two things that Sorry, like what do you what does he think of charlie chaplin or uh buster keaton? What indiana jones, I mean that's meant to be a fun action adventure story But like writers of the lost are anything you can come up with this is the problem He's the arbiter so he would if you said like what about star wars he goes that's art and amusement Okay, what about um, you know and then name a film he doesn't like he goes. Oh, that's amusement not art That's just amusement Yeah, this is always going to be the qualifier But they're all art if it's a movie it tells me as a work of art. I know that it's not like, you know, high High art, I guess as some people say it's not, you know, I just top shelf stuff, but I think people need to lose their, um The iron grip on the word art. It's okay for things to be considered art. Even if they're shit guys It's all right. It's gonna be fine. Let them have that Art Yeah Okay Enter batman v superman Please don't Enter batman v superman, this is the one that's going to shake it all up This is the one that's going to show everyone what real art is This is our savior. This is our jesus. It's thematically appropriate. Oh no enter batman versus superman Oh my god change the landscape for your anus The world was never the same On its opening day audiences went to watch the quote-on-quote superhero movie with hi-ho It is a superhero movie You guys all know why you said that it has the words because it's not because it's not a dumb superhero movie Like all those other mediocre ones this to me is like someone being like, you know, fucking kfc. It is so fucking good They the people on the opening day of kfc. They opened up their fast food and discovered that it was Gourmet it was actually yeah Okay, that that needs to be gadelped. It's a superhero movie. You don't need to uh I've already got so many gadelp quotes already Hmm not fair. This is rare that like we were doing this far ahead Um, I'm struggling here. This is like really Now you you started this being like there's a quote in this that's so funny. We have to hear it. Was that it? Uh, I can't remember which one it was though I've been laughing too much at all of them. So The this this video it wouldn't be anywhere near as funny if it were a parody like I love that someone made this on purpose Like it's it's just wonderful. It's like the room Which is pretty cool, right as a matter commentary considering the topic of this video Something was wrong. Something didn't feel right something felt Yeah, the movie sucked Something felt broke. Was it the story you could say that you could say one or two things maybe It hasn't really changed since it came out Is he gonna end up saying something like this is not a superhero movie with something else I don't know how but I think this is where he'll say I'm gonna say he's this is art. Yeah, this isn't a superhero movie. This is art And it's meant to challenge you or something All right, I gotta move Check my attention span It's gonna change the way you think bullshit about superhero movies And if you don't get it you miss the point People are afraid of the things I can't understand. Yeah, they love saying that danger present Danger of breaking a well-known Oh, no, no, no No, it's not about breaking How do you explain Thor Ragnarok then sir, like how do you explain the dark knight? That came out in 2008. You can't simultaneously say like oh people love it if you break the formula They can do real well except this time. They didn't like it because it broke the formula Like it sounds like you need to do a little more digging at this point What's funny to me is that I've never viewed them this way All of the films in the MCU and the DCU like oh, did they follow the formula? Like it doesn't really come up. I'm really just really digging into their stories And also like this movie that memory Superman the last hour just completely deteriorates and so like just action nonstop also regarding formulas Uh, doesn't that kind of depend on how many Movies try to like basically tell the same kind of story the same story beats and everything Like because uh iron man is an accused of being formulaic because it was kind of like the first MCU movie to Do the like what we now are familiar with like and consider the MCU formula Like black panther and um doctor strange and iron man are all very similar in plot beats But iron man doesn't get the criticism that doctor strange and black panther received for that Because it was like a trailblazer. It was groundbreaking in that sense Sure at the same time so you have voice in the back of my head. That's like could that be because also this shit though? Well, it's like if you have multiple movies that are trying to be like batman v Superman, which thank god. We don't that would be a formula Well, I don't even I don't even think that there's they've made it clear that there's there's some kind of significant formula break You know, do you ever mean like when you watch batman vs. Superman? It's not like I'm thinking hey Where's my you know and then formulaic it's not bad because of the formula. Yeah, it's Stop focusing so much on the formula. Stop that Why would he why would he stop when he can categorize everyone who didn't like it as people who love formulaic sludge Like that'd be awesome, right because that makes the movie look way better Take my sludge alone Oftentimes formulas are uh are followed because it was like they were successful They were like they they were successful with like the audience and the box office and and with critics sometimes it's like There's a reason why uh, there's storytelling conventions Hence the confusion of like he surely agrees ragnarok breaks this formula. So why was it successful if it broke the formula? Maybe the formula isn't the defining factor Who knows there was a feeling of danger present danger of breaking a well-known formula poetry symbolism darker tones and themes poetry Poetry symbol That's that's poetry Wouldn't you feel a little embarrassed if your movie didn't do very well Maybe people didn't like it and then you saw the one guy defending it hardcore being like it's poetry. He don't understand it I feel like you'd be like there's symbolism in there I would almost want to be like, okay. Well, okay Like I mean I tried to put some of that stuff in there, but like, you know, it's fine that people don't like it, dude You don't need to be like it's poetry. You don't understand. Yeah, it was like calm down I wanted poetry at risky story beats and a somber mood a batman that kills Superman that dies But that's not new That's the new at all. I love me. I love the words showing up on screen dies Man with the word dies over This is this is about us a damaged It's it's about as subtle as a Zack Snyder, baby. Oh, yeah Um, so it's a music because uh, as recently mentioned, um almost like foreshadowing Batman has been killing on screen for a while. It's just the the manner in which he does it I think is what the viewer's got upset by um, for example, if he's like punch and capowing a villain and then Like a henchman tries to stop him and he punches him He goes whoa and falls off like a banister and you're like, oh shit. Did he just is he dead? Oh Movies moved on, you know It's just like, oh god. I hope that I don't know if that guy lived through that. Oh, well Yeah, I don't know this film was like look at this car. We're gonna fill it with a hundred bullets and then blow it up Yeah, they are very dead We want to make sure that you as the audience understand they are very dead There's a difference between Batman like punching a like a dude so hard that his That is what? issue with prison over population um Yeah, and what's interesting as well because I was thinking about it a bit more he's shown to have um Gun disabling technology. I didn't want to describe it as like anything more specific because I don't know if it's like fictional Whatever, you know, he attaches stuff to people's guns and they just stop working They look like magnetized miniature bombs. Yeah, so That to me says oh you have ways of taking people down not lethally Oh, no And we never get to explore that with Superman outside of Batman outside of him saying like People don't stay good Alfred and criminals keep rising back up. They're like weeds. It's like, oh, these lines are so shit No, it's on shut up. All right, it's symbolic of how criminals are like weeds Look, you're not paying attention Superman dies Symbolically, but not really that actually A world that hates Wow world that hates groundbreaking Oh God Again, is the pretension not off the fucking charts in this video Like, you know what else had a world that had hate in it? fucking citizen kane I like 200 years ago I also love as profile picture as a black and white photo of himself uh aiming a camera It's like a standard standard pseudo wannabe filmmaker profile picture shot It's the one where you know that they they posed for it But if someone were to take a photo of them while working, I feel like they'd look at the camera go. Oh You caught me. I'm just doing my job. Oh, I was just I was just working on my batman for superman video My goodness, this is so candid It's always the cameras. The formula had been broken Is the darker film to be expected? Of course it was this is dc after all But this was too far You goddamn right it was too far I mean, it was just bad People don't care if it has a dark tone. Remember the dark night came out in 2008 Don't forget Logan people fucking adore Logan man. It's pretty dark that movie Logan is the darker than the dark than this movie Logan says um Before the events of Logan the professor axe killed a bunch of x-men by accident And let's not forget that batman begins came out, you know a few years before the dark night and people loved it They were like, thank god batman's dark and grim and serious again This is better than batman and robin. Yeah, it's really you're confused. You think something that is just so untrue There quickly be one of the most hated directors of all time. What I what I He's more of a clown to me. I don't hate him Like I kind of there is a bit of a like a love in terms of like I adore seeing how you you decide to Do things in your writing. It's so crazy and funny um Is there a director you guys hate? No um Hate uh, it's a strong word, you know Yeah, it is a strong word for a director. There's many I dislike Yeah, but hate. No, I think hate is Uh, roman polanski Oh, I hate roman polanski. Obviously excluding I guess the ride from their work not from their work. Yeah, yeah, yeah Not from what they've done Well, that's the thing is if if you're just making well, okay So like with child pornographers count I just hey That's art. We'll just talk about like, you know, look when the director The answer is I'm probably never going to hate a director for their uh Their film because that's quite a thing. Yeah, see just because I made a movie you didn't like and so The scale has to alter and thus he must be referring to zack snider is made fun of more than most directors I'd be like your god damn right. He is Yeah, he deserves the It's what happens when you make stupid cloud movies Also, he needs to shave his neck He doesn't need to shave his neck. Yeah, the dc extended universe died long order, but I saw what was Fallout water brother shakeup executive. Of course they did they saw the movie It only took two it only took two months before they were like, oh Hey, it's also May 17 2016 this article was written before the ultimate Edition was even shown and the theatrical cut was even worse than the ultimate edition. I want to understand. Yeah And uh, you have to take into account Again, this comes back to the whole artist thing. One brother's looking at the money and then the critical reception They don't know what art is They're just like, oh god people hate this. Ah, we need to get rid of it They make rash decisions all the fucking time. Look at a well, you know, what's funny? Look at the dceu. Look at suicide squad. Look at justice league Look at this entire thing and look at zack snot as justice league as well potentially common chair Abandon ship and that breaks my heart I can really tell by the way you delivered that I can't take it And that breaks my heart This is so weak. Does a video essay like stand in awe? That delivery was harder than amber herds delivery in aquaman. That's because his heart's broken. It's like, uh, High top we said far from home broke him I'm so sad. I'm sick of people His heart is what that took from No, no his soul And that's what My soul my soul from me Kill that from me Superman My soul is broken. You're a monster. Snyder If I've had to stop snyder before he makes even more movies It's not our door There's quite an epic video, isn't it? Oh, it's very epic his soundtrack is very he knows exactly what he's going for He's definitely style that style over substance I'm gonna say I'm quite happy that this section has come up part two of misunderstanding because I was gonna say There's lots of things that he's fucked up on so far. So I'm assuming he's about to correct them all This is his correction section. Definitely. Thank you. He's about to say like so all of that is bullshit This is so funny Psyche using a lot of the soundtrack bro, huh? Yeah, yeah, man It doesn't take a stat. How come you give us that long to read though that and you give us two seconds to read the zack Yeah, what the fuck? Also, I've roughed up loads a couple times at this point. There's no way I'm not gonna hit for the kiss of soundtrack Uh You're gonna make me not like it stop Yeah, stop batman v superman is a modern masterpiece of film. Oh my Oh Hey, you can't be surprised the name of the video is a modern masterpiece Not yeah, but I actually Not the revenant Oh Not only is this an absolutely gorgeous work, but it delivers to his listeners a message that shouldn't be forgotten Like it delivers a message. Oh, what is he gonna say the messages? Should we guess? Um Because I haven't seen this far anymore. So I don't understand That could be it. What yeah, that could be it actually. Um, oh if I was gonna If I was gonna guess what he's gonna say the message of the film is Huh Shouldn't superman be like Should he be able to pull that with like the traction that he has? I oh, you mean like I wouldn't he just fly across that yeah Yeah, he his his feet would just go through the ice whenever he tries to push forwards The ice isn't strong enough to actually he should be flying as he pulls it I guess Yeah, you'd think What if he's actually just sort of using his flying abilities to Slightly defy gravity so that he doesn't break the ice All right He just wants to look dramatic as he walks forward with the still he's still making some indents in that land, but yeah Just a little bit. Yeah, he can he's yeah half an inch of uh foot indent and remember it's all breaking in back there So it's not too like and it's on its side as well So he's like dragging that thing. Yeah, the hull isn't even yeah on the ice. I hope they're okay Yeah, I hope so too Do you think that ship would be heavier than the building that he lifts easily with the injustice league? Um, that ship is definitely lighter. I yeah, I wouldn't want to guess to be I don't know how far back does the ship go Yeah, that's not a good point Yeah But I mean if it was like a 100 year old ship, why is he carrot? What I what is he because it belongs in a museum? I like the fact that he's gonna use the shot of the batmobile absolutely fucking over some dude. Yeah Well, no, he said before this is a film where batman kills and that's mean something I don't know what but it means something. All right. Yeah I reiterate it's listeners It's quite fascinating to listen to the criticisms of this film As poor of a reputation as it has the majority of the film's critiques are a result of misunderstanding You don't yeah Exhibit a people don't understand that it's not a flaw that superman drags his enemies into space and boops them away Example of how this is true a nuke stops him. So he shouldn't have we bring the guy on and say, why didn't he try again? And it's like it doesn't matter. That's not the point You can't do this. All right. You have to own the position of Mechanically it might be nonsense, but that's fine because it's making a point if that was your video in total I'd be like, well, at least you can stick to that position. I guess you can't say yeah No, you're wrong on these mechanics. You don't understand them And then I've nothing when people ask you simple questions. It's fucking annoying Infants of the critiques are exactly in line with the film's message Batman shouldn't be killing. That's the point That's the point We got it. I I don't want I never said that batman shouldn't kill Yeah, I don't even think that's that's not even something I hear often Well, so he's saying people are like boo the film's bad because batman's killing people and his counter is that's the point So we have to unravel a lot there it is like is it a flaw for us that he's killing people in the movies Like not necessarily it's going to be dependent on the individual kills and his choices he has and then his characterization It's going to be annoying if he uh, if he's letting characters like the joker and harley quinn When they were directly responsible for um, for robin's death, um, that's A bit weird if he has no issue with killing mooks So Yeah, because our list of issues of the film batman killing people. I don't even know if it's on the list It's it would have to be more specific than that Yeah Superman to be more hopeful and confident correct. Why isn't he what? Um Because it's cuz zack snider has a really weird vision of what this character is He doesn't behave as though he's lived a full life on earth loving parents in a society that's gizarily crafted some way. Yeah Instead he's depressed all the time, but it's really frustrated Mm-hmm depending on how the next one of his commentary starts. I'm going to be very uh I'm gonna I'm gonna find his music choice here very questionable. Let's let's see what he says I'm not going to go through every single critique and explain exactly why it's wrong because I try people That the film is why you're making a video It's just damn. I was kind of looking forward to that Just well It's actually an I'm deciding to convince every single one of you that just isn't ascending But I'm not going to explain everything because why would I which is weird because that's kind of my strategy with mando It's like I'm gonna explain everything Same for me or the boys. Let me tell you all of the arguments for why this is shit. Um, yeah I assume it's more so to make a uh a video under a certain amount of time But what I was gonna say was that it's interesting that I can't even write that down for gdell Because it's been written down three times already from other videos we've covered I'm not gonna go through all of the reasons you're like, right, okay Why would you right if you want to convince one of an argument, you wouldn't go through all the reasoning He just uses just a trope Hmm. Yeah. It's terminate a trope point point point point. Yeah Correct, why isn't he? I'm not going to go through every single critique and explain exactly why it's wrong Because I truly believe that the film needs no help in defending itself clearly, you don't believe that you made this video Yeah, he's gonna he's gonna let the movie speak for itself. Yeah Yeah, this film needs help defending itself absolutely like Stephen Hawking needs help up the staircase like this is a really this film is all the help It could get if someone said to me like why are you making the boys video surely it's self-evident I hope bad it is like it's not a lot of people don't really This is just educate yourself Anybody who watches a film doesn't need any defense Anybody watches a film twice is probably gonna have much like more accurate things to say about it than the person who watched it once Just categorically and so going from there. Yeah, you could imagine What a stupid thing whatever We've done this excellently Oh Showing he's showing two videos that we didn't cover Focus you were reading it also Also, I've seen the other Batman v Superman let's Luther's plan explained I was gonna say we've seen the other two videos that I showed you guys a good portion of the Batman's motive explained one I think they're very the other three of them are awful They were all yeah contenders for what we were gonna cover and remember the The author said that like it's it's it's he doesn't care if the details are correct. It's the overall point that matters I've said it before and I still convinced he's probably a nice dude and you might enjoy his videos But like I don't know how I could stay subscribed to a crate to the set like it doesn't matter if what I said was true I've just tried to appeal to a point. It's like what? Or or when he admitted that he was click baiting. Oh, that wasn't a good idea either Yeah, that wasn't great If this is the if this video is supposed to be the go-to that's being propped up for why these films are Actually, not bad. This film's in some fucking trouble I Would highly recommend checking out their Deserves respect Ideas if you want an official this is what's happening all this left is the people who love the movie They just make it all the even all these Even all these the thumbnails for the movie are just fucking depressing and try hard. Oh, yeah an edgy She'll report But I'm not here to explain why I don't remember any leftist Colin Cobb, of course It's really dumb I'm gonna be Superman isn't a bad movie. I'm here to explain why I believe Batman be super So I really think that this this is a very overbearing fast-paced music that does not fit at all with his commentary Well, when you have Combined with What's up dickheads? What's talking about? This This music fits more if you're actually like listing off like if I were to critique this this movie if I were to make a Like a video critiquing this movie I would be using this type of music in the background as I'm listing through a number of reasons with any given plot element Like why Lex Luthor's plan makes no sense and and you know, I mean it's like a high pace You want you want things getting delivered when you're talking about a fight scene. Yeah, all you're trying to be more Yeah, he's trying to be more contemplative and pretentious and this just this this track just doesn't fit with it Oh, yeah, I think he's just throw it on. It's like, yeah, that's good. That's a good just good soundtrack. So it's fine But I'm not here to explain my Batman be Superman isn't about like I can barely hear what he's saying. Yeah. Yeah, like Good I'm here to explain why I believe Batman be Superman is a good film. All right Yeah, so for the people at home, he's just told you his his goal here is to explain why it's a good movie How much do you think we have left? 60% of the movie Like damn dude, you bet you bet a hurry Oh Drawing out these chapter title reveals it like this just comes across as baby's first video essay to me Well, he's panning right like on purpose. He wants it to certainly wants it to be above 10 minutes I think the video essay golden weird because he had that quote flash by so fast right off the bat A lot of like the really gonna chalk that up to he's not good at making videos a lot of the main shitty Video essay people like the golden areas between 10 and 20 minutes. It seems like that's what you want to do That's what you'd think you want to do if you watch them and want to emulate them When like the e-fabs logic is it's as long as it has to be That's just that's it. It's gonna be as long Well, forget the words just forget I said anything As long as you're required to explain your points That's a visionary director. Oh, he's so subtle that mean what does that mean? Visionary director. What does that mean? Good question often referred to as you can't wait to find out director Mean someone who shows great imagination and vision Thanks to the help of his director. I'm sure it has a vision. Thanks Thanks in part to his director of photography. Okay, Larry Fong Zack Snyder crafted a unique and visually stunning image for this film The phrase every frame of painting is an appropriate one We did it you see this this moment where this is falling in slow mo you could take a screenshot and it would be a painting I mean, this is a good But you can't take a screenshot of everything and make it a painting show up I You can't just take items around the house like soup cans and paint them and become famous. No, that would be no That would be done. Yeah, no whatever by actually Just look at these frames There's this two guys standing Just look at what why would you choose this one? So yeah, like it look if this was supposed to be a particular frame that I'd want to put in a frame in my house Right, I'd be like, hey you two guys back there. Could you could you move? You're in the shot? You guys are in the shot. Could you duck down a little bit? Yeah, I keep moving to the left. All right, you're good We'll let you know when we're done. Cheers. I think there are some of the sound guys got in the yeah Yeah, I can't believe they got in the shot This one how about how about how about the Dark Knight Returns homage shot? That's a cool shot Why this one man Yeah, why this one Look at these frames the film speaks for itself You keep saying that but then you keep talking about I need to make a video explaining it. No, I I think I get it So you have the bland dryness of the shot matches the bland dryness of Lois's character She is part of the scene. She is part of the environment. They meld together. They mesh Yeah, of course, we've got we've got the rebar crucifix in the back Also, they're sad and it's cloudy, which is very I'd see it Oh, look there's a little potting in the cloud as well. Isn't that neat? I've never seen that in any movie ever Look even the rebel is like a little cross the visionary Oh my god, isn't only about the look For anyone who's seen a Michael Bay film. It's obvious that a film's look means nothing if it He owes a lot of his success means nothing it means nothing if it means nothing That's what he said. Wow. Thank you. I don't really see that. I just want to play that. I'm playing that again Are you sure isn't only about the look For anyone who's seen a Michael Bay film. It's obvious that a film's look means nothing if it well Means nothing Good job. I mean, he must be aware of that. That's why the fuck did he say it? What? Yeah, I I'm sure I guess he he's like if there's no real Meaning or symbolism behind the cinematography then it's worthless Dude, I can't doesn't mean anything. I can't believe this video like there's so much about it I blame I blame all of the other video essays that are popular for this video. That's why this one was made He thought this was a good idea Why do I get the feeling that this guy watches brown table a lot? I'm sure he hates people like us That sounds a lot like something that brown table would say. Yeah You should it's quite a task for the director and the dp to craft a meaningful painting for every single frame in a film you Fuck you the room has a meaningful frame every single part of the movie, okay Put them all in a museum. I I totally believe that absolutely Tommy. Why so absolutely had a reason for everything he Put in that movie. It's so funny because he just treats it as though we all understand It's like well, we all agree right bvs is just beautifully shot every single frames of painting. You know like, um Do you want to get into why or how for any of that or are you just going to say that it's true? I would love some qualification moller Wake me when we get some Ideally there should be a story told through each one. Oh ideally it goes unnoticed just how much detail and passion Snyder puts into every single one of his shots Every single one. Um, right Every one every single one. I mean I won't deny that he There's passion But you know who else had passion? Hitler There we did it. We did it everyone. We fucking did it I just want to highlight something really funny. I found in his description for this video Zack Snyder's justice league is among us Doesn't he mean upon us? No, I think he was very deliberate with his bad choices. It's among us. What the fuck It's it's just like no, no, no, no, no I think what he's doing here is just like how Superman is supposed to be one of us and among us So too is the justice league. It is among us Superman suss Well, so I unironically yes, incredible. Uh Yeah, it's phenomenal really Um, but he's kind of spent the last minute and a half saying the same thing The shots are really good because they're really good because they're so really fucking good. They're just so good They're so meaningful Yeah, how much detail and passion Snyder puts into every single one of his shots All right His movies are full of symbolism references to classical pieces of art and literature and theological and philosophical images The theological imagery plus references to the comic books. That means it's good Do you please provide the imagery is not and like that's not uncommon in in cinema? What about people who do not do that in the background? What about people who don't want to do that Superman made a t-pose like jesus He's like jesus For instance, right you have two directors one of them wants to film a scene one of them goes You know what? I want to make a reference to this comic book this particular, uh, you know pain and uh I also want to have a biblical reference the other one's like I'm just gonna create shots that I think are meaningful in relation to the story as it stands And I'm gonna try and You know tell tell blah blah blah. It's like which one of those two should be valued more And I'm not saying there's an easy answer this I'm just suggesting that like why is it that because someone took a shot From a comic book that's better than someone who made a shot on their own Merit, they just wanted to make the shot I would love explanations and qualifications for these things. It's something that these videos are severely lacking It's great for itself. All right. Best you can Educate yourself. Yeah. Yeah best you can provide examples of Like examples of of uh, literary references that these uh shots have literary references. Yeah, precisely I would love unless he's coming like Does he count comic books as literature? I want you to be said literary because it makes you sound smarter to be like see it references books Like I read books, you know, it's that kind of thing the chat literary. This is the virgin book He's saying I don't really read books, but I understand them which I think is a bit more important I think that there are no one to reference them. There are definitely some people who I'm not now This might not be the case with him. I might be reading too much into it But there are a lot of people who attach an extreme amount of value to like I read like I am a reader You just watch movies. I read the books. You know, it's kind of like the whole the movie's always worse than the book kind of crowd Yeah, um, but when you say literary, it's like, oh boy now you're really amped it up like literary To the story he is telling One example is a rather obvious one Lex Luthor's painting of Milton's paradise lost. Wow. It's so subtle No, please So subtle Not only is this a neat reference, but the story of paradise. It's not a reference Well, no at what point is it stopped being a reference when they they're so explicit about it Um, if I like in a movie say you shall not pass The you coming to my house and opening the door and I go, huh, you shall not pass someone goes. Wow, that's a neat reference You're just like, okay Yeah, I know that by re by by pointing it out and recognizing it, you know, it's it loses it's you know To me, that's what we need to avoid celebrating because you end up with mandalorian. Yeah See i'm referencing luke skywalker by having him show up as a character in doing things Bro, it's a reference. Remember luke skywalkers green lightsaber guys Bet you do It's like saying this painting is a reference to the painting This is the thing I and if someone was like, well, then what are you supposed to do? I should be like, well, I assume that the reason to put It's third party references is that by looking into them They will give you an extra understanding of what the story you're conducting is which might be the way he'll qualify this I don't know But uh, it's going to be impossible for something that's good to be able to help you understand something That's a shit as bvs Like i'm assuming this painting Is a hell of a lot more of a high quality in in its uh in its Uh craft than bvs is a movie But who knows Mirrors lex luther himself Another more obscure. Wait, that was it? He said it mirrors lex luther himself and then he just moved on really We have only 13 minutes. We have no Not only is this a neat reference, but the story of paradise lost perfectly mirrors the story of lex luther himself How that's why that's just so how let's explain so let's Let's assume that's true. Let's assume that milton's paradise lost and lex luther's character Are mirrors of each other first off incredible indictment of milton. We'll skip that Secondly So that just means that snider copied a book I am gonna buy paradise lost and read it at some point But uh, I am very curious to see how true this is You know the whole let me let me just read the synopsis of paradise Lost from what i've read is basically an epic poem that is about the god the story of the garden of edin Like it that's basically the story it's about it's the temptation of adam and eve by the fallen angel satan and their expulsion from the garden I guess that his logic would be that like lex luther is adam slash eve and that he was tempted by I don't know like but he wasn't doing it for personal reasons. Was he wasn't doing it for personal gain seemingly Originally at the beginning he was like he you would you would assume at the beginning This is why lex luther such a fucking mess of a character that it's kind of tough because he's kind of He's he's all over the place and he's very confusing and he's contradictory But yeah, I I do not at all believe that maybe that was the intention which I can believe because this is a zack snider film However, no fucking way Uh You know like the whole plateaus republic thing from with man of steel and it's like yeah But you see we're doing the whole freedom of choice versus roles assigned to you and so that makes it better You're like wait, what do you mean? It's like well, it's referencing plateaus republic. You're like, okay Okay, that's Like what why do you put so much fucking weight on this like he executed plateaus republic horrifically in a man of steel Why why is it just good enough that he referenced it? It should yeah, it's um Like is that is that the implication that like by the very fact that he even knows what plateaus republic is and thought to Reference it is better than civil war not referencing anything in particular and just like telling its own story Yeah, because it's not smart. Yeah, it should focus on it should focus on telling its own story and if it happens to mirror Certain elements from a more classical story Then's like, all right, that's neat But that doesn't explain why the story that we're looking at here that is bvs Actually stands well on its own Yeah, I think for me if I I felt they had executed really well in man of steel if I was to do a video analyzing it And there was a scene that on a bookshelf the camera pans by there's a plateaus republic book on there I'd probably be like hey they even reference it because it's relevant in terms of inspiration as the story But uh man of steel puts it in his fucking head when he's a kid. It's like, oh Oh, well, I mean That's a good example and uh in in buffy uh one of the books that um That that is being read by angel. I come home with a book is cold. What was did you remember what it was called? um I was it's like the it's Jean-Paul Sartre as the I wrote it's just like his um ideas on Uh, is it absurdism and the response to it? I I forget I'd have to go into it more But yeah angel does a lot of reading in there, but again, he's um Like over 300 years old He like has a lot to contemplate about his position in the world He's not a high school like less than high schooler getting beaten up because he's reading plays It's so crudgy Um, I was I was about to say something. Let's say fuck it. Yeah, like there's there's ways to do about this and really that are really interesting like um, oh brother were art thou is uh A retelling of the odyssey kind of but it takes place in like the 20s And a lot of people wouldn't even know it if it didn't say like based on homers the odyssey um So I'd like to rewatch that sometime, but there are there are so much better ways to do this then See look our character is holding the book explicitly here so that you can see it there is a painting on the wall that has angels and demons fighting each other And i'm gonna turn it upside down. Oh This is the paradigms. They come in from the sky Devils come from the sky like superman the devil except wait. No, he's not the paradigms of them and dark That could have been done better. Yeah, it's a shame because it could be really great. Yeah, that idea. Yeah, like the These in the background Yeah, the the paintings in the background when we first see it It's not referenced at the end the place is trashed for whatever reason and it's falling on upside down or something like that in the background but When you're so blatant about pointing it out and everything like that it just loses its Yeah, it's like when you it's like when you when you're in school and you're literary classes And you notice things before the teacher tells you about them and you're like, oh, see Yeah, I'll be paying attention. All right. I've been doing my readings. Yeah. Yeah it was uh Lanozzi I think is how it's pronounced um philosophical existentialism Yeah, these some good books I was saying before that there is pretentiousness sometimes when it comes to people reading but like there are some Great books that everybody should be reading I just think it's about the motivation to place it in and it really needs to not be i'm smart because I read this It needs to be this thing influenced me and I'd like to just have a And it was important work. It is relevant to the story that i'm trying to tell. Yeah That'd be nice because again, I think we're giving points just for it being referenced We're not giving points for how well it was executed It is yeah, I Just having a reference to a book isn't enough Well, this goes to the core that this is why this guy likes twin perfect. It doesn't matter what the execution was the idea Oh, that's new. That's cool. There's the idea was there. So that's good enough Pull the opposite of what we do here Like they're confused by the way we look at media where we're like, what do you mean the execution matters? I can't just have a good idea and a theme and that's just it takes care of itself At that point why have the scenes just why send me an email with your message exactly send an email That's just here's my thoughts on x and then just You you'd think like how how does this not translate like check out my flying car and it's just on the floor You know like this doesn't fly. I know but the flying car Cool idea Another more pure example is when Batman is holding the spear to Superman's chest Which seems to be a reference to st. Michael vanishing. Oh, no Okay Someone's spearing somebody. It's like he gets points. Like why why does he gets Being satan by Raphael At this point Bruce has deluded people have referenced how it's when I forget the specific names But when doesn't jesus get stabbed with something to see if he's alive By a spear. Yeah, and both blood and water spurts out. Yeah. Yeah, and so You can wrap like whatever. I don't care. Like someone else was stabbed with a spear at some point That could be referenced here. He like fine And he's like, yeah, but there's lots of other jesus imagery. I'm like, why are we giving points for this? I don't understand Giving points for jesus imagery of all things. That's the easiest most common one Reference is all these things but the story still stays the same. Yeah, like what is better? The story is still shit. This doesn't help this movie I'd say it's telling that they avoid the nuts and bolts when they talk about Batman v Superman It's like they don't actually talk about Batman v Superman. They talk about everything around it. You're like, okay Yeah, you know What this video is telling me is that what it takes to be a modern masterpiece isn't to actually stand on your own Just make references to a bunch of literary and art pieces Fucking hell Anquishing Satan by Raphael At this point Bruce has deluded himself into believing that he is in fact killing an entity of pure evil And he's a moron in the movie to think that Pure evil. They did not justify that. I wish they did Making him the savior of the world What about this frame of Lex Luthor as a reference to this painting of napoleon a conqueror? The death of superman Look Like look at the crop. It's a fucking joke This is something you'd expect a 14 year old to do. Why is this good? Yeah, you're just referencing it. They did a thing that looks like a painting. It's like, oh So Like so I think painting death of christ young bruce ascending into the sea of bats This means nothing stop. It's like a painting. So it's stop. Tell me why I don't Care that the scene looks like a painting that 96 of the people who watch this film haven't even seen Haven't even seen before and then they're going to go around and tell all their buddies about all these Dude, if one of you guys recall to tell me bvs is good and you showed me all these comparisons I just feel like okay, but what about the film though? Could you imagine that converse? It's like that's man. I'm just southmark episodes that guy who ties up Cartman and just shows a pictures of going to like disneyland. He's like here's a picture of um Paradise lost If I want to look at these paintings, I'll look at the paintings I'm not going to see a shitty fucking movie that has To these paintings in a couple shots It almost like he's almost Evaluating the paintings because like these paintings are really great and they probably have like a lot of really good Like there's some meaning behind it and and um, and there was a purpose and intense And then zack started saw the paintings and was like, oh, I could like do this and just have me in the movie Show I like remain nameless They have a character who does a major betrayal to one of the main characters and over the course of a long time Star Wars Yes, totally tries to get back into the good graces of the main Selection of people despite that betrayal and at one point he's given a gift by someone He opens it up and he's a little confused. He's like it's Dante's divine comedy. Why she's like You know, um The layers of hell like the the close you get to the main circle the the worst the sin is and he's just like Yeah, and she's like who's in the centerhead of the three Mouths in the final circle of hell or something and it's judas Brutus. Oh, yeah, and and it's like That's left on its own and they stare at each other and the point obviously is like people the worst Sinner is the one who like backstabs Um, which is relevant to his journey in the story You don't even need to read it. It's like it's just a neat universe thing. It's also Relevant to the literature that both of them would be aware of and I'm just like I guess I'm using it That's an interesting thing to think about is like should a reference be something that somebody can appreciate if they don't know what the reference is I think if you're gonna do it the way that they have to look into it Then it needs to be that the story functions without knowing that information Uh, yeah, I think that'd probably be an important part And I mean I would appeal to the idea that like references that are about critical things in your story Like the fundamental point of the story Should be understandable by people who don't know the reference You can't expect everybody to have read Dante's divine comedies or paradise lost or all of these things Well, yeah, I think that's a question. I'd like to ask him as well If I agreed with him on all of this like what's this going to mean for people who've never been exposed to any of this Yeah Like it doesn't you have to concede it doesn't stand on its own I mean, yeah, so yeah, like how would anybody how would any normal film go like Reasonably know that this bat ascending like most people are gonna look at him be like what the hell? Why is he flying? Not ah, I see this is a reference to the classical antiquity, you know, like or like, um Yeah, most people are gonna be going what the fuck Yeah, why is he flying it all because like really skin deep as well like it matches the image That's it not necessarily the meaning because everything Everything that they've shown up to this point has uh, we can take to be like literal and this is clearly metaphorical So it's a very weird switch that uh kind of catches you off guard Yeah It's like oh, is this a dream? Okay Go on and on and on you haven't said anything yet Yeah, he doesn't go on and on other reference Just reference like okay, cool classical references. No way the movie is good Maybe if we I'm waiting you're running out of time, buddy You better hurry up and on and on But these classical references aren't the only thing that makes this cinematography fuck They're not the only thing Jesus They're beautiful The composition of the frame and camera movements are given just as much detail Take the scene It goes up Best superman goes up like he seems standard to me Wait, that'll be his argument here that the camera perspective shifts from him looking up to him looking down It's not that probably okay Hey, why do you have the flashback FM youtube channel? Why do you that's who I got the clip from? I like okay Superman and flying high above a sitting lex as the camera shows us both perspectives One looking up at god most high and one looking down. Yeah, that's not bad I get it. I get it. I get what they're trying to say It's really obvious and it's shitty. It seems like some of a simplistic shit to be the godlike character is high You're like, okay I remember in school like I can't remember what class it was but like I distinctly remember like where we just got a sheet of paper that just showed all of like the most common camera positions for um For like and then what it conveys And like one of the the first ones that they show is when you look up it makes the character look bigger And like more prominent and more powerful and when you look down they look smaller and feeble Like it's really not that complicated It's just and the camera rise to challenge god God meets him on his level as the camera slowly the scene ends with superman on his knees going Yeah Slowly descends to earth and when lex reveals his hand god is he slowly descends to earth at the top of the skyscraper Brilliant now kneel before man And the camera follows as we gaze upwards at the i like how he doesn't even touch his hair like not to mess it up or something So we're going to do another take all right Lex Luthor is master of the hover hand. Yes. Yeah, I know that. Yeah, I could believe it Now powerful man. The roles have been reversed. Whoa Yeah, we talk. So let's talk about the actual film though Yeah, you want to talk about stuff that's in the film You want to know how all of this is enabled because cla can tell when lois gets pushed off a building But he has no idea what's going on with his mom for some reason Talk about this all but for the sake of time, I'll conclude the section with a quote by gordon The cinematographer for the godfather films a cinematographer is a visual psychiatrist Moving an audience making them think the way you want them to think painting pictures in the dark Okay, I want everyone that depends the last Jedi on the basis of its cinematography over the writing to realize This video is exactly what they sound like to us. Yes I appreciate cinematography. It's a nice quote. It's a nice quote. Um, yeah Look, I'm looking to talk about the writing. If you could do that, that'd be great We are we are eight minutes 30 into a 15-1 1 half minute video. We haven't talked about the writing yet We haven't talked about any of the writing. You're right any of the characters any of the narrative at all Yes, the score is good Great music Wonder Woman's got a great theme her character is a ditzy loser Man has a nifty soundtrack Yeah, um prequels are full of great music. Oh prequels. Yeah, what? Like a great score can't really do much to Are you speaking abu? Like that boo is that What a talent is it's very similar to that boo-ish Oh, wait, uh, where did they shoot naboo? Is it nidalee? Oh, you might. Oh my god. No. Oh god This could be the cleverest thing civil Oh spain. Fuck. Ah Hey, look, that's that's like that's the mediterranean. All right. That's close. That's close. They're they're brownish They're that mediterranean area There their culture is sort of I mean, oh wait, how many spanish Italian people we got to piss off by saying they're very similar to each other. They're very similar One has pizza. One has tacos A taco with spain. That's mexico That's on mexico You know Then how come the mexican speak spanish checkmate? They speak mexicoan They speak mexicoan I'm a language at how i know this Like these these because a lot of these places speak spanish, but imagine if it was uruguayan Like that was the language of the europeans No Not to be confused. You're a paraguay Paraguay Is it guay or guay so anyway, we were always happening I don't want to be culturally insensitive. So I want to make sure I get it right. I think uh, you're a guay and paraguay I hope I've got that right. Um Hmm It okay para Yes, let me double check The mystery of our time How do you we gotta talk about something interesting? Yeah, I mean we got nothing here Pronounce paraguay pronounce It's guay It is guay. Okay paraguay Yeah Paraguay there we go Oh See I didn't want to get that wrong What now I know when I got a paraguay I could be like, hey guys you impressed by how I pronounce your world and then they're confused because none of it is And then they could say uh, okay guys What does q mean? I think it means what right? q u e rare centric thriller cocaine there for universal The film was based on drew events from 1985 when a 175 pound bear accidentally consumed over several pounds of cocaine Um You know now that we're talking about there's there should be a movie made about have you guys there was a Bear that was part of the polish army Yes Who did like tricks and stuff for the military and of course in your head you're like, please tell me that bear was on the front lines That was going to war. What was the name of that bear? Hold on I think can't thank you. I made a video on it We need more bear biopics War tech void tech void tech is it void tech? That's the name of the bear void tech the bear. Yeah, w o j t e k void tech Yeah, there it is Void tech make it like joker. Well, no not like joker make it like, um I don't know something. I just want it to exist if we get cocaine bear. We should get a story about woe I like the idea that the career is crashing and burning She's being forced to direct the cocaine bear movie. Well, at least Well, at least the bear's high. I mean, is that is that like a step down or like is that good or bad? You don't I'm assuming it's a step down. I don't know because at one point I'm sure she had wider ideals than that. But I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. She doesn't you see that picture dangerous, right? She did that one. Did she direct that? I think so. Yeah, she did. She did direct it. Oh, so maybe there is a little bit of justice in the universe Well, it's just because um, it uh, it did not make money That movie didn't make its money back But but she also did like got it right and those movies made like hundreds of millions of dollars You mean when you see a picture of her like that your first thought isn't cocaine bear Well at first I'm like As soon as I saw the picture and saw elizabeth banks cocaine bear, I was like, is she gonna play cocaine bear? Is that like Is that like just put her in a giant costume to play the bit? I don't know. We need there's only one person that can go in a bear costume for a movie and that's nicolas cage Yeah, have nicolas cage play cocaine bear. He's he is contractually obligated to punch women in his bear costume I I'm gonna say it loud when I go to the theater one for cocaine bear. Please I just love the timing of this announcement. This is incredible And that um When you know like how some movies have special promos for like the different popcorn instead of like a popcorn box It's like meant to look like a cocaine bag I wonder how you make that work like from the outside have it be a bunch of like, you know, it just looks like white powder and then no no no You you uh, you dump a bunch of uh of gummy bears into a bag of powdered sugar Yeah, that might be the way to do it It's like mixing, you know, it's a combo you're mixing the flavors of cocaine and gummy bear And of course it fits because he's a cocaine bear. So yeah What do you think about it? So i'm excited for cocaine bear. All right, i'm very excited for cocaine bear E fat movies cocaine bear has to happen Uh, I mean, let's not go that far. It might actually be a great movie. Just like an unironic Oh, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, and um, what other unironic great movies have we done on e fat man and robin? Yeah Part four a score that matters, uh, I believe it is time to discover the truth of this Argument it's gonna have a quote from john williams at the end of this one the score matters. I love batman It's no mystery that a film's sound is half of the experience So why should the filmmaker select scores at random or write music that doesn't work well with the scene it's put in You mean like you did in this video, I guess Yeah It is kind of funny. Yeah Hulkenberg also known as junkie excel do an absolutely fantastic job at composing scores for this film and its characters Right as the film kicks off the score proves to be just as important as what is seen on screen In the opening sequence of the film in which the wanes are killed There is a voiceover of bruce wane introducing the theme of fallenness Just fallen Fallenness The state of fall beats the state of being fallen. I guess Because what falls is fallen That doesn't sound clunky at all. All right Everything falls in this scene bruce's everything falls in this So let me let me explain to you something called gravity. Fuck it. Hell. You know what your doesn't fall The criminal he doesn't fall No, that's right His soul falls further and further into the depths of hell You see you see young bruce. He falls through the well His parents fall too All right, um, there's a bit of it. Oh, uh, this might be interesting. It's total like non sequitur though some Bethesda the Bethesda acquisition has like gone through so it's done And microsoft has already said that some new games are just going to be exclusive to pc and xbox So, uh, of course Surprising no one or at least well, it's surprising no one, but it's like man imagine imagine like if i was to scroll six Or something is xbox exclusive like so you can legit be in a lot of trouble if that happens cocaine bear Movie for the generations Martha's pearl The leaves at their funeral. Even these sparks are false. Stop Ah Oh, no, he's got to be like the music see it's all going down like in notes the notes are descending Now take a look at the score It falls one note at a time plunging it's weight. Wait, hold on. So straight down one notice. No It falls one note at a time. Hold on Some of them are going up though as you can see as well Like music is a little more complicated than just it falls down And of course, this is just one instrument like which instrument is this? Oh, oh man now he's going to annoy me because this is music Like It falls so like not all of it does there because that's like Oh Stop it What instrument is this you cut that out? Show me the whole score show me the sheet music for all of the instruments so I can see if they're all falling I would just skip ahead to uh, yeah the score's good. So can we talk about the film? Yeah Yeah, I like listen to the score for this movie sometimes, but that doesn't mean that I'll watch the movies I'll listen to the score. All right. We're avoiding the the elephant that is filled in the room Like we can barely sit in the room the elephant is so big. He's like let's talk about I don't know nothing You're like, all right, I guess we don't have to talk about the elephant. Okay Yes fallen into until Yeah, that's raise him up to the light and guess what else raises Shut up. What? What tell me tell me I gotta know Do but wait well, I guess this is now frustrating me because like I mean First question I have is what key signature like is this a minor or a major? Because if it's minor then it's good There's more to talk about than what he's talking about like if he actually wanted to talk about what music means and And what influence it has on how you feel about what you're seeing Is the key a bat minor The key of bat minor. Yeah And Bruce is a minor While Bruce Is an endless freefall Batman's like motif lifts him from those debts Oh, that's inconsistent because Batman's a bad guy. Yeah, Batman's a bad guy. Yeah. Yeah, um Okay, I guess it's good then just wait for the fucking talk about the right in police All of these elements work together to set up just how far Bruce is falling and the beautiful line Batman has created for him But listen to the music it's ominous Yeah, it's very it this is like a You would expect to see this in a film where someone gets power who is evil Well, I think I think a good example is you can like Thanos or something funny He's gonna shit on like avengers and stuff, but like some of these some of these films have really good scores um And it's you know like every time Just thinking like civil war because civil war's an easy one to default to like captain america's theme is very sort of Archetypical sort of hopeful heroic type of theme as well But then like the actual theme for the movie is a lot more dour Um, which are soldiers score is really good Oh, I guess I don't want to I don't know like if we want to talk about music I don't want it to just be like Oh, it's good or bad or it rises or it falls. You know, it's like can we please like if you've got to talk about this Can we please go into more detail? Instead of just this reductive simplistic take The interesting thing is he's just highlighted as well. It's like this sequence is bruce telling us with the um narration That this was the part in his life where he was like I can become batman and things will get better But it didn't and then he starts killing people. Yeah the whole beautiful lie thing. Um, so it's just like to me I'm just like, couldn't you just apply anything you want? Like I I don't know about this with uh, when you get really interpretive of what the music definitely means or can mean Well, I don't think there's many films that you can't do this with It's kind of hard because when it comes to like statements on music the very broad one is if something is in a major Then it's probably gonna make you happy and if it's in a minor, it's gonna make you sad That's like the broad Feeling that like music evokes and then you can maybe go in more from there, but it's real. Oh, what was that? Yeah, go to go to youtube and listen to the godfather theme in the major key Listen to let's take me home in the minor key and if you change the Line sleeps tonight in the minor key Totally changes the entire feeling of the song if you change it from major to minor. Yeah, very obvious Really, it's really interesting how how Much of a difference that change makes and I mean a good example is and a much more appropriate example in far from home Mysterious theme when he's a hero is really triumphant and like very standard almost like just standard like oh I'm a hero kind of music And then when he becomes a villain it just ships a little bit and it takes on a much more sinister tone It's really good. Like that's really and of course a good example of vulture from the avengers is the avengers theme inverted Fucking awesome Way better. They're just like hey look it goes down The discussion on both of those don't end there like you go into why that's meaningful But this is what I was about And then he rose but he still didn't fully rise because he's killing because I mean That's the that's kind of the Unfrustrating thing the music is awesome in this film. It's really good. It's really really good But like yeah, what it what it means in the film itself. Like it's the film doesn't support like any of it at all It's like we're doing all the heavy lifting here and junkie itself It's like going to a restaurant and like the appetizer is really good But then the main course is just awful and you're like, well At least the you know, at least the you know, the what the fried mushrooms were good Again, I I don't have anything bad to say about the the score. I'm just waiting to talk about the writing. Please With just one gorgeous piece by tom hulkenborg. We feel the intensity and brokeness of bruce's state in this film If this doesn't convince you that zack snider is a talented filmmaker No Doesn't make the music the person made a great Uh soundtrack they get the credit for that even zack snider even named the people it's like those people Did a really good job. Yeah They must feel really upset that you gave zack snider all the credit They're like I I was like coming but I guess his logic would be zack snider was probably in the room And it's like but I imagine that when it comes to music like zack snider is a filmmaker that doesn't necessarily You know what I mean? Like it's almost like what direction he gives for the music Would probably have a lot more to do with just han zimmer's interpretation of that rather than the fact that he said it if that even happened The thing what would convince me is if you can The bare bones everything that he had to input Which vastly like how much is defined in this film by the writing even the soundtrack I'm gonna have to mold itself according to the events of the film So the writing Like you can't write and shoot a film around the score the score comes after I suppose you might be able to do that but fuck me that would be annoying wouldn't it I imagine so yeah the person gets to see the the the the director sorry It's possible with like a jukebox hit musical. That's uh, who's the person who makes the music the The composer composer. Yeah the composer sees the movie and sees how fucking horrific it is and he scrambles to make this and Piece to get he's like I gotta try and do the best thing that I possibly can for this movie that I know is gonna be horrible I gotta work extra hard to make it work Um, yeah, uh, I mean a jukebox music jukebox musical. That's uh kind of like centered around songs that Are already written and you're just having characters basically sing old popular songs You could do that but musicals are a whole different thing. Yeah Yeah, even action scenes that are built around the song as the baseline. I could understand that but writing a story So like it's not impossible. It's just like they don't do it that way. It's just not it's not how they do it It's not like with kings men in the church scene What does it all mean? Yeah, explain This is where it all comes together. This is what is this film about? Good question. He has not talked about the characters. He's not talked about the writing or the narrative or the And superman Why is this story being told and what do we have to learn from it? These questions seem to me to be completely lost to the modern audiences Lost are the days where we analyze works of art. No You haven't analyzed this at all. You said the painting is a reference to the fucking painting This is projection. You're not analyzing. We are we're desperately looking at the components to try and construct this Thing and like to figure out what it is But you're like god, they don't even analyze They don't even just accept that it's good because it references thing like what because it references paradise lost That makes it good must be good because it references a thing and we're sitting here desperate for you to talk about the stuff The actual substance of what's in it Fucking shit not audiences like this is like we're This is like you go to a restaurant which is where I base most of my analogies today apparently And he's talking about he's talking about how well the menu looks The text of the menu, right And how the menu is new and sleek and how the the colors work on the menu and and all that sort of thing And then we get the food and the food is horrifically bad It's crap and we're like, oh this food is terrible and he's like but the menu is nice Look at the way the way it was The ideas of the food What a great idea Did you not read the description on the menu the ideas of the food was so great and baked into the description as you will like it Like oh sweet Why are you guys talking about how the food was cooked and executed? I like to talk more about the ideas the points of the food Yeah, I mean again zero percent death of the chef All right, they they have a little like potato cross and like it references jesus He's like enjoy the meal you fuck little fish finger man attached to the potato cross Put the gravy coming out of his wound Searching for the piece as well as finding ourselves embedded within it Now we're finding ourselves For fuck's sake. Yeah, man. I don't not it's not like it's not that I want to hear you But it's more useful to hear you so um talking about the idea that you can like get a lot of Introspection from media that you really like you can think about what was happening in them and what it taught you Or what you made you realize about yourself. Absolutely. I love that so much That it only means something to me if there are also existing things that I find Shit and repulsive because of how much they oppose what I consider to be my values or my Um, personal perspective on things hence the disgust that comes with Wonder Woman 84 and seeing the scene where they're like lull rape It's like whoa, and if he was like, well, no, you need to find what you Feel from that scene just like shut the fuck up Okay, well then you need to find what you feel from all the scenes and avengers Yeah Yeah What if I feel like a shit no film this doesn't apply to They're all perfect But checking a tomato meter and latching onto the popular opinion I don't fucking care about those people. We went through the movie. We've looked into many defenses of the movie We spent hours talking about all the arguments for why it's shit. We didn't just look at a tomato meter, mate. All right Yeah, I believe 100 in death of the tomato meter Fuck the tomato meter There is something else going on I mentioned before Offer to us a certain amount of escapism Watching the fun and amusing Thor Ragnarok is so much easier than facing the grim reality The grim reality The grim reality Fuck off The grim reality that many people watch Jesse Eisenberg's performance is like smoother. I'm like, yeah, this is all right That's the grim reality. Hey, look, let me tell you the grim reality of civil war is that no matter You know the world will push back against you even if you have the best of intentions Even if you're trying the best and even if they owe you a lot the world will push back against you and you have to Fall in line or not be a good reality of the fact that you can't save everyone You try to save as many people you can and you still can't save everyone How about your entire home world is destroyed But what you need to take from that is your home are the people that were there not the land itself. Yeah Asgard was never was in the place never was there's a people. It's a great little message Ragnarok even has something to do Yeah, Ragnarok's got some good stuff Yeah, and and guardians too the whole idea that like family is kind of what you make it It's not, you know Yondu he's he's dad not like his actual dad Because that's more meaningful Like it's the people I like how that message kind of like flies in the face of man of steel Well, it does doesn't it because Because like superman seems to just cast aside his real parents as soon as he finds out about his uh his actual Which he has zero connection to Yeah, which he's and again that's kind of they're all dicks Well, I mean that's the whole point guardians raises right like ego like first of all ego is a piece of shit Like for starters, he's an evil person But also like this relationship shouldn't mean as much to you as the one you had with the person who was actually there for you Like so that's a good message Yeah, the idea is like bvs is just too grim for people. They just need to move real It's too real the fun and using Thor Ragnarok is so much easier than facing the grim reality of the world we currently live in But what is There's so many worlds to choose from and he goes for the the one that has a heavy emphasis on comedy Yeah, that's not even fair. Ragnarok is probably the the most comedy of all of the mcu. Yeah And it came soon after civil war one of the most like dramatic and grounded and they're both hyper popular. How do you explain yourself? Oh, he never does he doesn't explain He doesn't we don't do that. We don't do the ae word here. We don't we don't talk about that I think that leads one to question the truth. They think they know Art is something to ask questions instead of giving answers You can express lies just as much as you can express Art can ask questions and give answers the hell Yeah Art asks the question doesn't give the answer bullshit Some odd. Yeah, like art can do both It just depends on the execution Well, whether or not it's good depends on the execution. It can do both They can do whatever they want in terms of like the message. Well, yeah, I think it's yeah, like yeah That they pose a question without at least being able to interpret an answer that's from the content itself Yeah, I think that's very why am I there? Why am I there if not for uh, something that I can work with? Because what he's referring to to me is the whole deconstruction movement Wait, they want to make stuff. That's just I want to destroy this and I'm going to do it by asking some very simple questions Also by it's like, whoa, you didn't you haven't done anything productive there For example, just like any institution or any Concluded thought being the the fucking Intellectual that's like, you know what though why? Okay, bye. It's like what if that's all you're going to do fuck off It's not very helpful is it like I just I guess I land on the opposite side if any of Most of the time you're going to want to provide something something to at least think about not Simply the question of why is it impressive to just go why? I think I think that's the interesting thing is because somebody could easily be like well Wait, what do you mean? Like if I leave you if I give you a question don't answer it that means I You know whereas it's like we're generally what a piece to me It would do is give you a few potential answers to that question But not tell you which one is correct like civil war Yeah, it'll give you something to think about in mull over and Yeah, and when it says something to think about there's material to think about that's the important part So two answers are remain principles and absolutely go your own way or Give an inch of yourself away in exchange for a potentially better world than if you stuck to your principles sort of thing It's a it's a super interesting conversation to have and the film doesn't say either team is correct In fact, you could argue that by the time we get to endgame it says that cap should have Should have stayed with Tony But that's only as a result of a third party attacking them sort of thing It's a complicated thing. It's really fun to talk about and people to this day are like It's so dumb that anyone thinks insert character here is correct There are still people. Yeah, who like obviously cap was right and people who like obviously tony was right It's almost like it's a really good movie. And then What he's talking about you mean Yeah, um, what he's talking about reminds me of the family guy meme where they they they make fun of like a peter Do you remember as a philosopher? He's is it like dinner's ready and he just goes why? That's it Yeah, I remember that um Good job you asked the question Something that shakes us Makes us see things from a different perspective Something that yeah, that is art is something that shakes us and makes us see things from a different perspective Okay, the room did that. I was trembling. It was really bad definitions of art Art is just any creative expression. I don't want to say that. Well, I was about to say like His definition is more broad than possibly anybody's a fucking like a toenail I could look out the floor be like shaken by it like you It's like well, that's some effective art right there. I'm literally shaking who Hide the world from us It shows us the best and worst parts of it It shows the best and worst of us And worse sometimes it shows the best sometimes it shows the worst and sometimes it shows mundane What if I crochet a blindfold? No, he's just mine. I hate the name and stuff He's not like saying what how this film because we're about to we're hitting the end of this soon Yeah, this man Terrible this is a monster and ourselves We place ourselves into every work of art we see no batman v superman is a story about imper- Do you think I place myself in tally tubbies? I don't Maybe you should. Don't lie. And if you want to go well tally tubbies is an art I'll be like shut the fuck up tally tubbies is There's a baby in the sun. It's art It is keynote. Couldn't imagine if somebody said tally tubbies is an art There's a lot of artistry that goes into tally tubbies. I mean making those suits god damn tinky winky is art. Yes As is Poe is Ho and dipsy Self-forgiveness sacrifice and purpose Like bruce we have all failed We have all failed fuck you I'm amazing Yeah, this video is a failure. This should have been your thumbnail For your we lose sight of our no cells every single day yet. There's redemption on the horizon Yeah, the music's overbearing as hell right now. What an what an absolutely empty ass video Dude, I can't believe this is like a video essay nothing is being said Meanwhile anytime he does say something it just is really really restrictive and wrong This would be one of those videos where if someone was like what's efap likes like watch this video And if you can't think think of anything wrong with it like This is what efap will be It's just discovering everything because nothing about this fucking works from any production standpoint be it script sound commentary points any of it little garbage But I kind of like that it it exists like I said it's um Evidence that I'll work as far from over on the internet, you know, it'll never be done Our work will be done though. It always will be when we're all in our deathbeds. We will say there we go We did it It always will be Like clark, we're all searching for a place in the world constantly doubting our worth and desperately seeking answers of our own I'm not those things Stop Wow rags caught associate with the oh, yeah, I need to be a You gotta be a fucking depressed ass video essayist This fucking comment on this video too, by the way The fact that people are still discussing this movie tells you everything you need to know who is still talking about civil war Dr. Strange First of all People are still talking about it. Does that mean tlj is just phenomenal like one of the greatest pieces away People are still talking about the holocaust. Yeah, this is an interesting I don't know why people bring this up like they let that shit go People are still talking about it. It must be good It's it's incredible. It was good because it was memorable. People are still talking about the prequels people are still talking about godzilla What else have we shot on people still talking about all kinds of mando man. Think of the fucking coverage for mando Must be good Must be great To write this movie off as being too highbrow or trying too hard to be It's too highbrow No It is it wants to be highbrow, but the brows are very low the the brow was low, but it went very high up its own ass That's like the qualifier. I guess. Yeah This this film will go down in the anals of history. Yes But when someone actually takes the time to look at what's been done with this film The beauty is hard to see it. The beauty is hard to ignore Beauty is hard to find Yeah, honestly, yeah Zack Snyder created a film a work of art for us to see ourselves in and we burned it to the ground It's our fault. It's our fault. We betrayed He wanted to give us something to see ourselves in so wait He's saying simultaneously It's like really dark and gritty and it shouldn't be that way But that's the point and also it's something for us to see ourselves in and then we burnt it to the ground We couldn't take it. We couldn't deal with seeing ourselves in this life Oh my god, it's so funny. Maybe if we burned it to the ground it was because it's This is the thing the only response to this is maybe it was really badly written though. What about that? Yeah, why didn't you talk about the writing the thing that it's terrible in it? I must be awkward. I guess this one Videos like this need to be recognized more movies like this need to be understood They aren't they aren't made to take you out of the real world They are made to think about what's actually in the real world Oh, yeah, remember that flying guy outside that's Fighting the cave troll from warrior What the fuck is what is wrong with people? No, it's about redemption. It's about failure. It's about it's about family Yes, and that's what's so powerful about it Yeah, man. I love that again Imagine being a person who believes that Batman v Superman is like one of the greatest films ever made You end up making videos like this And you look back at a few years like oh my god this fucking video So complicated at times yes Is it difficult to watch our favorite childhood heroes in such a somber state? Absolutely. No, does it merit more than one watch through? I'm not a child. Like when I see when I see Superman because I am an adult I can differentiate different versions of Superman in media that other people create. I'm not like that's my Superman That Superman belongs to me and it hurts My feefies for Superman Hashtag feefies for Superman If you watch a film without using your brain once you've essentially just ridden a roller coaster And I don't mean to step on Martin Scorsese's toes If if you watch a film without using your brain, it's essentially so I can't turn my brain off That's the ongoing discussion in that Yeah, this this movie can only benefit from you turning your brain off as you watch it I love that he's about to quote Martin Scorsese. Do you think Martin Scorsese thinks Batman v Superman is a work of art? Is anything but garbage? Yeah, do you think he actually likes this film? Like if you had a conversation with him Do you think you'd be happy with what he tells you? Also, it kind of goes to show that the There I say toxicity of defining shit as not art or not cinema all it is is angry people Trying to big up one thing and shit on something else As there was Tiger with sweetie. He's like it's the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's cinema. Like, you know, I don't know what I meant to say It is no not cinema wrong It is cinema that you in a cinema and it's cinematic. I just don't understand It's the Marvel Cinematic Universe every meaningful definition. It is that but by the definition of yeah, but it's superheroes Yeah, which is you got to work on that Oh, what about all the ones that are considered fantastic works of art like like dark knight and Logan and others and it's like all those Those are different I don't mean to step on Martin Scorsese's toes here, but art is not an amusement park and make no mistake Film is art. It can be. Yeah Yeah, why can't it be? Why would any who in the world has ever said otherwise? about cinema I think that amusement parks are Underrated I think that there is an arts to making an amusement park making a really well It's funny man. That's very reductive. Yeah How about moving through a haunted house for example the amount of work that someone would have put in to give you a specific experience Based on how they understand those particular experiences be executed imagine like like every Roller coaster that's like really well made and well crafted and everything like all the The work that had to go into designing a roller coaster That will be thrilling and smooth. Yeah, and you'll want to go on again as soon as you get off Like, you know what don't knock on amusement parks. This came a bit of an older Great, you could picture someone being in a car and being like well cars on art They're like a functional thing that you use for it. It's like oh tell that to the person that designed this thing Please designed it who spent their life like trying that that would be a funny thing for someone to say about a car when There is very clearly in basically every car the goal of making it kind of have a face Well, and almost oh, yeah giving it like an aesthetic that will yeah I would I use the balance between utility and beauty. They like they want to make it It needs to do what it has to do, but also they want to make it look fucking awesome It'd be funny right because it'd be like well, obviously like a lambo is a piece of art But not like a Honda Civic or a Honda and it's like nah, come on. It's all uh, it all is or none of it is You gotta pick one too protective of that word Oh, you bet No, art is for BVS not for cars All right Hey a fucking table can be a work of art. Absolutely. What's a cabin tree? Absolutely. Yeah, a carpentry is a here Anything that is somebody's like the what they do in life can be art Like there's probably even an art to cleaning the floor in a certain way, you know There's there's an art There's an art to stocking produce and hand stacking fruit on top of each other to look like aesthetically pleasing to look at Yeah, we're trying to yeah fruit arrangement. Yeah, we're trying to get to like extreme examples But none of these shock me. I'm just like yep Yeah, if I if I shot on the floor and sculpted a face into it like so that's art now by the way Nobody wants their fruit to look like a zookeeper's bucket exactly All right, yeah film is art a video What a load of crap Just labor I do not own that's always been a worthless thing to put into your videos. It doesn't do anything They don't give a shit mate. No, I don't know why you said that all you've said is this video belongs to disney and water brothers Why would you say that? True this is fair use this is a review. This is absolutely fair use. I don't know about No matter who owns the copyright. That's the whole point of fair use I don't know if the music would count for that but the visuals certainly Uh, no, I think music I think you I think music does count because it's it's music from the film, especially He's also specifically talking about the music. Well, I don't I don't know about that He uses it as a backing track. I don't know if that's covered by copyright because he's not transforming. He's just using it for his benefit Uh Don't be surprised. I'm saying this applies to basically I don't I'm pretty sure all of us have done this Everyone on youtube does this the copyright is still not they're not sure about this one Um visuals, I think are a clear cut thing but putting a backing track behind you talking when it's you're like, well, well, yeah But it's the music from the film. It's like That's not really In fairness when you're talking about the score rags is right about that But he only does that for a while like a small portion of this video Well, even if he's even if he's not specifically talking about the score And he's using the score to amplify a message that he's giving that is transformative So that's rocky ground right there Well, I think it depends on what like if you're using the music from the film I feel like there's more of an argument than like if you're using i.e. Sonic Mania music in like every video you talk about any film you want, you know Like if you're Sonic Mania while talking about just like, I don't know one division. It's like, I don't Well, like imagine you made an album and someone was like I'm using it for backing because I'm creating a review of some game And I'm just going to use all of your music. I'm not even going to crack you But I but I would never make that claim for I'm I'm saying that it's like when you're using the music from the media that you're Reviewing I think that there's more of a justification for that Um, I think if you're talking about the music fair enough, I don't know otherwise though By the way, if I was talking like a review of Bamavist Superman and um I played the entire video film from start to finish in my video while I was just Rambling on about my feelings and you could still hear the film as well. I'd be like that's not enough You need to This is not only is that really lazy, but that's like I would be concerned that a copyright's not being held up at that point Uh, well, yeah, but like when you're using star wars music in like your tfa videos, do you feel like that's Oh, well, yeah, the reason Look, yeah, that's that's what i'm highlighting is that we all do it and i'm not sure that it's uh It's it is fair use Oh, well, I I guess because when it comes it just gets past content Yeah, what it does do at a lower volume. Yeah. Yeah Oh, well, I guess because I've always because part of the reason why I don't use like music and just anything where I don't Have a specific subject matter is because of that very reason like it's irrelevant So it wouldn't be it wouldn't in my mind be considered like the right context to use it Um, like I in the crash video i'm using crash music like of course Well, sure, but I wouldn't put anything Over you for like if you used a random blood-borne track when you're talking about something Spooky in a in a crash game because it doesn't have any spooky tracks or whatever. Uh, I'm fine with it I guess I guess like if Yeah to create what i'm highlighting right now is like the i'm interested in the whole topic I don't know what would be considered transformative enough But right now I don't think that is actually enough legally I think that they can get you and that's why music is really hard to for example This e-fab is probably not going to be able to We'll be all right if it can stay up. I don't think it'll be stricken down But there's so much of Hansman is in his music at this right now that I don't think he's going to be able to survive copyright What you mean like if like it was like, all right, we're going to court like Oh, if I I think I would lose if they took me to court. Not that I would fight it. I should be like, I'll reupload it I'll take it out. All right. It's chill You need to take me to court I guess I guess um Because the problem is when it comes to like the state of copyright now It's kind of it's tough because um a lot of people are doing things that aren't right Legally as the law stands and like and then you of course you can make the argument that like even even devoid of the law Like using somebody's music to make your video Um, and then and it's totally unrelated and you haven't transformed it in any way It's all very um that probably all very eyeballed as well right like if I'm If I want to make a review of the Batman of this movie and I play all of his scenes all in a row at the beginning of Video and then I commentate for another two hours after it. Yeah, I imagine a courtroom might be like, I don't know I don't know I imagine that they probably I think yeah, I think the whole idea is is what you've made a substitute for Well, maybe that's maybe that but that that makes it complicated, right? Because if you were using Music that's totally unrelated. It's like but i'm talking over all of it. This isn't a substitute for listening to the song I'm not sure if the argument works Um, well, I don't know if I don't know if it does either Um, I wouldn't say that it does right like like if you I don't know The reason I choose the tracks that I have in my videos is to evoke A feeling rather than being like oh, this music is good I want people to like my video for the music that is good that I didn't make but but that's I mean I don't think that's I imagine that's not relevant at all Whether I don't know if it's considered transformative or not. I don't well. I don't think the intention matters It's just whether or not it actually is I guess I find it interesting because I'm one of the conversations people have is like on twitch A lot of people just play music that you know, they just have to use Spotify playlists It's like and then for most of it. They're not saying anything And it's like man Gets a lot more complicated with stuff like that because it's just like that Isn't that just repurposing the music for your benefit? It's like what if you are a streamer? Who just plays the most popular songs doesn't do fuck all of the stream and of course There's a way to get around it Which is to either use royalty-free music or buy the license or the music Just buy the license and then you can use it commercially in any context you want Yeah, like um, there's a there's a decent list of very talented artists who Let allow you to use their music and it's not copyrighted. Yeah, I mean there's there's musicians all over the internet All yeah, but all work is copyrighted whether or not they do anything with it any as soon as you've made something it's copyrighted Oh, yeah, yeah, they don't claim it But it is copy everything is copyrighted everything in existence that's creative is copyrighted Just as soon as it's made then it's copyright That's just how the system works if you're a Martian you made it on Mars. What about that? um Oh, it would still be copyright. Yeah Like if you were in if you were on Mars on a Mars mission and you drew a stick figure that's still copyrighted. It was made by a person Oh, I'm I mean it's good that they haven't specified. There has to be from it I'm proud of them. That means when when the aliens show us their superhero stories We can't just copy and paste them. That will also be protected. We won't be able to steal it. That's right damn um For real though when if you're like if if you want to make content on the internet You should think about these things like copyright and stuff like that because it's unfortunate because you can do a lot of clever things when you're editing stuff like that like like uh Say for example ray as a cameo in a new star wars movie and you're reviewing that scene and when she shows up you can play To like theme What was it called a light motif? In among your soundtrack because you're like how cool is that while i'm talking about her and she arrives I push her theme into the background of what i'm saying That takes a level of talent but in a courtroom they might be like no, you're just stealing the music. You're like right. Yeah, okay, well Kind of one of the reasons why I bought software to make music is just specifically so that I can do that eventually And just have the music so that it's like totally And I think especially as the law begins to change and starts to catch up with the internet Like I imagine that more and more there's going to be issues in terms of in terms of the way that things are operating It's pretty crazy because like all game soundtracks won't get you in trouble, right? Or at least most you can just use them all Yeah But I think it's just fundamentally that like video game Industry seems to be more caught up with I think there is a recognition that um Because ie streaming video games there is a question to be said about how transformative that is Yeah, like um Like especially if you play the whole thing and don't say anything long plays, right? There's like an industry for that which I'm assuming I don't know where all of you lie on that. I think I know rags. You're not happy with them, right? Uh with long plays. Yeah, the other people play games with no No commentary. There's just no commentary whatsoever. No, I'm not a fan of that. That's weird. I don't Well, there's people out there who love long plays because they don't want someone's commentary They just want so like a bio shock like people like to absorb that game as an experience that they're Almost like they're playing it Like exactly exactly games that are narratively focused Yeah, they should be playing it But I guess I don't know there's this weird group of people who are like, you know Either they can't afford it or they're like, I don't want to play. I just want to see but of course. Yeah That's the thing is like, um You know When it comes to video games and streams, there just seems to be a recognition that a lot of the time It's advantageous if somebody sees a game That you know, like if you see somebody streaming a game Uh, even though that streamer is benefiting greatly from using that video game It's like well if we get a sale from that or like two sales or 10 sales or 100 sales, that's worth it I mean, yeah, when he plays a game that can sometimes just make the success of that product Yeah, I'll be wrong So like at that point as opposed to film I guess that's the thing is like video games have the advantage of yeah You can watch it but like video games are meant to be played Um, whereas if it's a film And it's just uploaded on youtube or something. It's like, oh, well, you just got the movie Yeah, I mean they're still figuring out that's still an element of the wild west of the internet that's still to Be destroyed I imagine No, I give it time And also, yeah the frag said it before but um just saying I don't own the clips That's not gonna save you or like, yeah Go to water brothers. I won't say that's why I brought it up. I was I just find it a funny meme This used to be something they do back when people started to upload clips And the idea that someone's still doing it. It's like, oh my goodness It's not gonna help you in court It's not why anybody would assume you owed the fucking clips Yes rides do belong to water brothers including the right to stop you from making this Yep Thanks for acknowledging that you recognize that Hey guys, thanks so much for watching. This was my first attempt at making a video essay. So let me know what you think Oh, I believe it I feel bad now Did you not realize that? What do you mean? This is efab. We've covered things like this that are like the hundredth video for people Oh, well, I just looked up his youtube channel. Yeah, he's he hasn't made a video I said before well, um A good first attempt in terms of like he managed to put everything together, you know But I mean, this is the quintessential video essay formula. Yep This is what gets churned out when you watch all of the usual suspects Also, please check out some of my other projects and support me by liking subscribing and sharing That's it That's not the thumbnail This is art Alrighty But yeah, one down Well, yeah, there's one there was the one that was supposed to cover today Oh, fuck. Yeah To the one that we were supposed to cover This one's thumbnail is a picture of batman superman. It says misunderstood How long is it? Long enough that you're probably not going to be able to see the whole thing, but that's fine. Oh, Jesus I was so I was like, oh nice. I can go to bed timely. It's gonna be great It's got the meme text misunderstood Why do you punish me so amiably? Because I love you really. Uh, but yeah, as soon as rags comes back, we'll um, we'll boot her up It's uh the context for this one. I probably wait until he's back to say that too. Um, I don't know What do we talk about that with a superman's not very good? Yeah We've covered what two Was that the second video we've covered defending it? It was right because man of steel. Yeah. Yeah, we've covered two for that two for this I think for um Aquaman Shazam, whatever else will only be doing the one efap not a double Because fuck me, you know, we can't we can't keep having this happening. All right. It's ridiculous Are we even gonna do an efap on suicide squad? Is there anything that can be done on suicide squad? I don't know I don't want to see because the thing is I think it's gonna be bad time with suicide squawks We're gonna be busy. That's gonna be Zach's night is snide a cut coming out then and the thing is We're probably gonna Probably won't be long before people release videos that are assay like they're like Zach's night Is snide a cut tisms are an incredible masterpiece that people don't understand. I imagine Oh fuck. I just realized we'll have to cover videos like Yep Great I mean the caliber so far it's been through the imagine twin perfect makes one I wonder how he'll do it this time around knowing everything that he said to us Knowing that we're out there watching working in the internet Coming to get you All right rags. We're on to the all right number two All right number two how appropriate cosmonaut released a video That was called bvs sucks or does it suck whatever and it's just I think it's like an hour long It's a breakdown of things that are bad in bvs. Whatever. That's fine. I've not I don't think I've seen it Maybe I have I don't know either way. We we've never covered it Um, and yeah, I wouldn't have a huge amount of hope that he managed to dismantle the move very well, but Somebody took issue with his video and made a response. So We're in a position where we are going to look at someone defending bvs from cosmonaut variety hour Now that's uh, that's unusual. What might you say might might not be shit So, um, I mean, I'm curious how this will go formatting wise. Uh, I posted the thumbnail there rags. Do you appreciate it? Yeah It's understood I think it makes it so subtle. Yeah, so here it goes like that. It's in a meme font. Isn't that just Interesting that it is straight from adtex.com the favorite of mine. I think I think that batman should have misunderstood written on his cal in that font You've managed to have sad that should be his wife's name Oh, but then she'd be understood No, she'd be missed as understood Uh, well, you need to put an ad next to the s on on superman to some of the character to make sure we don't miss the point Here we go I'm gonna give batman v superman don of justice Eight out of ten. That's actually a really good score for it. Um, no I'm not sure I go to two. Yeah, I think it's too low. I think three is probably where I go Um, I mean it's close enough. Yeah, this is a tough one to call. I wouldn't blame anybody for giving it to Yeah, that's the sonic music. Wow, that was the worst piece of crap I've ever seen So we All right balancing music selection audio, what are they? Oh He's a shit We have what's called a triple threat. We have the bad audio quality We have the bad text quality and we have the bad music selection that we have videos and the clips and we have a family guy reference Yeah, and a family. Well, yeah, all right. We're for a ride It's Cause I'm a variety hour or as I'm gonna be calling him Marcus Made a video for his worst superhero movies of all time series where he covered batman versus superman And I had no intention to make a response or even watch the video It's not because I couldn't stand here. So I'm bash my lord and savior zack snider No, I already like this video better than the last one. Yeah, this one's more punchy so far Yeah, I don't mind Here in opposing opinions I think it could be interesting to see why the person feels the way they do and how they came to that conclusion And maybe show me things from a different perspective that I haven't considered But the reason why I wasn't interested in viewing this video in particular is because I saw his tweets and his intentions were clear The snider cut is coming out and getting attention. So why don't I make a video about its controversial predecessor? And I don't knock him for capitalized on it. I respect the hustle, but I also knew that Quite the capitalist I respect the hustle it's like what do you what I don't you respect me staying transparently on the internet the way I'm gonna do this to make money God Like it but remember bash capitalism Yeah, I thought cause well fucking whatever is if I'm gonna pretend to understand any of this Based on what he's doing his videos when batman starts shooting people and killing them Then I get the idea that maybe someone doesn't understand the point of the dark knight returns and with that I'm gonna talk about It's a broken point. Um Is whether or not someone understands the dark knight returns up for debate when someone's made an adaptation that may or may not Reference the dark knight returns at least impartial fully. Does it ever mean about the whole faith? It turns just totally different Totally different batman And this is the thing in the context of I'm like, I'm gonna make an adaptation of it And then I do everything different and you're like wait, that's not like that and I go, yes it is You be like, oh, I think you fucked up. I think you missed but but like, yeah, I'm assuming zack was doing his own thing But uh, yeah, I imagine he was I mean clearly. I think he was he was I think that's people's problem Is that he's doing his own thing Let's understand the man is superman man of steel and batman v superman Because x rider has no idea how these characters work So I knew where he stood and I knew why he was making the video So I didn't feel the need to give it any of my attention However, I've been getting comments and messages not to stop since his release asking me for my opinion and to reply to it So I finally gave it a watch and honestly, it's worse than I thought it was gonna be Oh boy, this is exciting What this gentleman needs to do is he needs to slow down when he speaks I also recommend annunciating all slurring constantly Yeah, and if don't panic if if you like If you read out a sentence and you're like, oh, no, was that good or not? Oh, no, I guess I'll go into the next I was like do it again. It's all right. Just do it again. You could you redo it? I have redone lines as many times as you want and um, just let's say for example There's four of them and then I check them in the timeline. I end up going with number two Like that can happen Totally fine. Just like yeah, select that sentence in audacity and hit control k and start over here If you're like me record it all and then take three or four takes of each line And then still have some bit of shit and then you have to go back over all of your fucking audio again to find what you need to re-record So prediction cosmonauts arguments that involve Adaptation bullshit is going to be stuff that we push back on This guy's probably going to push back on them as they are accurate to the comics. Well, we'll be like it doesn't matter But when cosmonauts talks about plot holes and this guy tries to counter them That's when we're probably going to be on his side of the court. Yeah, yeah, maybe this is going to be a very interesting Man uniting us. Yeah. Well, it's almost like a three three faction war. You know Text this is the guy that uh, the previous dude recommended Oh, yeah, it was text. Yeah, you're right Oh my goodness gracious We did it everybody we done all three. Yeah, we got It's a it's like a triangle You had twin perfect recommended the last guy we covered No, the last guy we covered recommended twin perfect who recommended text. We've covered all these people Today, I think that's uh, just coincidental. Well, and like I said, we're not doing bbs after this. All right. This is it I'm done with bbs. We're gonna move on Fuck that movie I genuinely feel that he didn't pay attention to the movie because he has a misunderstanding of character motos and numerous scenes throughout And before anyone asks he did watch the ultimate edition I don't feel it necessary to cover everything he mentions because a lot of his criticism are things that have been said over and over again Since the film's release things that have been addressed explained and debunked already Some that could go into extreme detail on those topics instead. Have they things that have been debunked already? I wish you could give me a quick fire list on those ones Instead I will bring them up again at the end and get some advice to Marcus for now Let's get into the video and start addressing the issues I have with it. All right The theme of today is irony Marcus sets it up right in the beginning when he claims standard doesn't understand watchmen Superman and batman but then Marcus will go on to not understand several parts of the movie Let's take the guy who doesn't understand watchmen and give him the rights to make batman and superman movies I'm sure he'll do a great job. I don't so um someone could have said Yeah, sure. Let's give Mike Flanagan the option to adapt the turn of the screw when he did such a shit job of adapting The haunting of hill house. I'd be like um Yeah What you made was really good. I don't care if it's a bad adaptation of something else Because the argument often comes up is well, wait if it's literally Unrecognizably different then why even adapt to in the first place? Like so that argument doesn't actually address whether or not the content's good You're just asking a question of curiosity. The answer is fun The ip gives them access to the funding or the audience to give it a chance You might be like, well, that's not very um honest. Is it you'd be like, I mean you can take a moral issue with it That doesn't really change if the story's good or not Yeah, that's that's all I got. That's where the conversation ends Think zax likes superman So I think he made these movies to make the kind of superman that he would want So instead you get these movies with a bad superman and then eventually a bad superman. It's not even It's not a very appropriate editing of the clips there. Um because The him in the skulls superman doesn't like the skulls It's a weird Yeah, I would use the skulls upset him I would use the clip of superman, uh, sending zods straight into the gas station. Yeah, that would be a great clip Batman and all across these three movies these characters never improve in any way The biggest problem with these movies is that he doesn't understand um Improve I guess batman's a lot more lighthearted than justice league improves In yeah between justice league and bvs. He's sort of like oh, I got to use superpowered people to Help protect the world from bad superpowered things I guess yeah You know, I guess that's sort of an improvement. Yeah, that's something batman a superman is Oh, just gonna say super superman, uh goes from being super dour and depressed to saying i'm a big fan of justice You know what? Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's better Hey wonder woman technically improves in the timeline. Yes She goes from wonder woman to wonder woman 84 to justice league batman versus superman. So that's that's an improvement There you go. So there you go. It's cool increments, but something Then these characters also anyone's noticed that he said three movies and all across these three movies So he's including 2017 is justice league marcus. You're a sophisticated guy. You like superhero movies. That's most of what you talk about I'm more than certain that you are well aware about the situation of 2017 is justice league Any extensive reshoots that happened from josh weed and the warner brothers? Oh, it doesn't count because it was movie josh Um, okay, it's the movie though. It doesn't matter. I was gonna say in canon That is the timeline unless they decided to change it whatever But are they zack snider's creation in justice league or are they joss weedons or are they both of theirs? I suppose all we have to go on is the fact that He's never seen the movie and everyone who likes his work has said that it's not his work and that he shouldn't look at it Because they butchered His movie how much of it is I don't believe those people though Are we about to have the ship of thesius discussion? The well, I mean, I don't know if we we'd have to go that deep down if zack is about to provide his version I think the answer is already clear, right? Which is like well, this one's josh weedons and fucking he's got me saying it now joss weedon And uh, zacks will be jadex nighter cut because interestingly, I don't think zack's nighter cut is gonna have him say I'm a big fat of justice. I don't think he's gonna say that Probably not but yeah, and I don't think batman is going to be cracking as many jokes Um, because josh because that would be brains fucked Joss would probably have wanted to lift the spirits especially when dealing with a character like superman You can understand the through line there Um, so I I'm willing to accept that if you wanted to judge whether or not zack has a good idea of these characters that you judge The extended bvs and man of steel and you don't judge from justice league necessarily. I I do kind of think that's kind of fair I get it, yeah Sure, especially with this night coming up soon to really put a big I don't I don't yeah, I don't have an investment big enough to really care either way Um, yeah, as long as I just want to know what you're doing beforehand stick to it Yeah, the actual version of justice league wasn't snider's movie I figured someone who talks about the genre as much as you do would know that So we only got two movies from snider with these characters We're gonna come back to his statement again about snider not understanding these characters later But for now, let's just move on also think it's funny that he gets marvel a backhand at compliment You can make a movie that has a boring ass story But if you make the main character relatable and interesting it will still make money Okay, it will still make money. What that I this is why cosmos sucks. He sucks Sucks so much. So he just said that like the mc was successful because it has good characters Even if it has shitty plots, we're like it'll make money because of that. It's like, oh the fucking Man of steel still made shit on the money showing this guy Yeah, and black panthers. It's not of all of all the characters to choose for this. Why him? Because he thought the black panthers plot was shit, but to charlotte was good, I guess And the black panther made money black panther made a shit ton of money, right? Yeah It didn't make two billion dollars. It made less. It made a lot less than two billion dollars. Are you sure? Yes, it made like one point. Was it captain marvel that made two billion No, no no standalone superhero film has ever made two billion dollars. Uh Spiderman program did No, no it didn't it made no You guys No, you are okay. Okay. So you guys are wrong Box office. Yeah, you're wrong for asking questions black panther with 1.3. I'm not Less so you Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah far from home. I'm sorry. I'm retarded. Yeah, so for far from home made 1.132 So the thing with black panther was that domestically it was more successful than infinity war Internationally, it wasn't though like and so therefore like total box office gross was like a lot lower than infinity war Infinity war was like two billion But I think 1.5 billion of that was like overseas whereas black panther half of what was u.s So I think black panther is the second most successful mcu film in the united states Well to close it like none of us actually give a shit about that. Anyway, like, you know, like did it make money? We at e-fapper like, huh? Like I don't care if it made money Yeah, it doesn't have anything to do with the quality as we all know and if any one of us was to suggest Well, yeah, but it tells you one thing and go what you know? It tells you that even with a boring plot as long as you have a good character you can make money Like what no what? What about transformers? What are the great characters in the transformers? He's not well characterized in black panthers john wick two and three He was more well characterized in civil war. That's way better in civil war. Yeah Um, yeah, I just I just feel like that's way too restricted. Like like why does a movie make money? It's like there could be fucking shit tons of reasons. It's not It's just like it's kind of as we all have a bad plot has to have a good character. You agree, right? It's like, well, no, it could have just amazing CGI or whatever. I don't know We all kinds of reasons it could be an IP Right characters in avatar for instance Oh, I think you've nailed it with transformers, right? Like we don't need to go for them It's like, oh, that's a boring plot, but they have great characters like sab wit wiki Yeah, okay Um, so yeah shit point from cosmonaut. Let's see how this goes Marvel has been doing this for years now most of these movies are not very ambitious As far as story is concerned. They are um I don't I don't know what it means to be ambitious with stories. It's just like the last video Tell me what you mean I don't know what any of these people mean. They are simply carried by their charismatic characters You say it like it's a good thing. That sounds pretty boring. Is it not ambitious to have your story carried by charismatic characters? um Well, so this is the thing if you said as a defender of the mcu That it's good. They have good characters because of how shit their plots are. I'd be like, that's a weird defense You just made Yeah, it's good. They're they're plots of shit, but the characters are not necessarily good. Just charismatic Yeah, that was another weird thing about the characterization of the argument. I mean, um I wouldn't use this defense. Funny enough on the screen, right? So which of these would you say overall plot is thumbs up in order? It would probably like good bad bad bad good good bad bad Bad Uh bad bad good bad Good from what I remember Goddiness doesn't two doesn't have a huge amount of plot in it much of a plot. So it's kind of yeah I'm coming good ragnarok. It's probably bad plot wise. I can't quite remember if everything holds up in that regard Black pants are bad. Takey We're mixed. Yeah. Yeah I'm gonna watch bad captain marvel's bad. I put it on the good side I feel like infinity war has enough issues that it could be that mixed. I really like infinity infinity war I can't even remember what the ant-manowah's plot was I know I saw that movie. I know I did but I just cannot remember what the plot was And of course captain marvel is horseshit So if We if someone asked me like what do you think makes the ones that are good that you describe with a bad plot? I probably would argue it's the characters, but just the way the marker said it makes it sound really Really bad He'll do that Half the mcu movies are scared and out. I mean captain marvel iron man two and three dr Strange store the dark world far from home ant-man both of them really underwhelming and far from home Well, wait, what did he say about that selection? That they're really unforgettable. They're really forgettable and can be skipped How do you skip far from home? How do you skip a lot of those a lot like dr. Strange you What that's nothing after it? Well, I guess now I don't think dr. Strange is good plot wise, but I would definitely recommend people see it I mean, yeah, yeah, I would encourage people to I'd say as we're seeing for infinity war to get context for Yeah, absolutely and plays interesting character Weird good journey. Maybe if we just we just push on through to more like a discussion That's a little less on shaky weird ground. We were desperate for definitely. Yeah, I would love to talk about that When in forgivable movies even the leads are charismatic as you put it So before he gets in the bvs He spends 15 minutes talking about man of steel and what he doesn't like about it Like the way it's shot the sectional krypton superman suit the alien tech the amount of action and destruction And superman killing zod. So basically most of it I was originally going to skip over this part because I wanted to get the bvs since that's what's in the title But it turns out he misunderstands and misrepresent several things that man of steel as well Oh All right, I was not expecting this it's so weird It's like a boxing fight with these two, but we are also in the ring just off center like yeah We're gonna punch one of you guys. We're gonna have to punch one of you. We're just the judges Yeah, we're the judges about to send in the the judge bots Oh, this is exciting. This feels unprecedented. I have no idea who we're gonna be attacking or defending in this video No boy, we get to just decide as we go Because this is the thing if you know one is safe. No one is free from sin It's like who's more likely for you guys to disagree with someone who defends the shit out of man of steel and bvs We're all like, oh, we're all cosvador. We're like, oh, fuck Figuring might as well too if you just want to watch the bvs part go and skip ahead to the timestamp here We're in it. Oh my god, it's like half the filth. It's You're bringing us back to mad if steel You learn how to make videos on a farm Like I already mentioned he said he isn't a fan of the wage shot this Sorry, I missed it. Oh So if you just want to watch the bvs part go and skip ahead to the timestamp here I wish now. I don't want to lose out on like I already mentioned He said he isn't a fan of the wage shot this suit or the alien tech which is fine That's just his preference. He also seems to think that the movie is too long and he doesn't like the intro section or krypton Oh, and also the movie itself is kind of boring because it's too long A lot of shitty arguments But like it's subjective too long in what sense Even if one person agrees that a movie sucks you can't just make the right argument Exactly. We did this. Uh, I remember I think it was either the end of the man of steel coverage or the beginning of bvs One in the movies thing I was like either we're going to be appealing to too many slow-mo shots or bloated scenes that are unnecessary And those two elements would be where I would be like, oh, it's it's longer than it need to be that is going to be the conclusion But not because it's boring. It's long and boring because it's because it's long Yeah, that's this argument. It's boring but high So man of steel is definitely shorter than lord of the rings is cosmonaut think that lord of the rings is boring Yeah, you need to do Needs to do better than this. Yeah The opening scene is a good example of things being too long for no reason I don't need to see superman's dad flying around on a dinosaur and doing karate. I know them when you say need Like, you know, I don't need that Blind with seeing things I don't need Well, like if I was getting backstory if it's serviced well and it's done well and it's not too long And it serves a purpose and it establishes something I need to know Like there's a lot of a lot of potential reasons why yeah If you describe this scene in a broad sense like Do you want to see in the prologue the scene where a superman's father when he was a baby Broke away from not only the council's orders But the coup that took place and fought his way to get the ship that his son was in to launch To save him from the planet's doom. I'd be like that sounds like it could be a really good prologue Yeah, like fuck it. Let me see it. Let's go and then you watch it and you're like, oh There's lots of things I have questions about now. Yeah, you're like, okay Oh, the planet's gonna blow up. Let's just speed it up The movie is also two and a half hours long and if you look at the plot, it's kind of hard to understand Just speed it up this time up because it's not a complicated story I just want to touch on this because I don't think man is still as much longer than any other movie in the genre Most comic book movies are always seen to stick between the two not a good counter Neither was a good argument to begin with He feels this way, but I feel he's wrong Yeah, but Movies too long. That's why it's boring. That's a bad argument. Yeah, but all movies are this log in this genre. God damn it So wait, so are they all bad or is it okay that they're all that way? I don't what what is the statement you're making? I'm so confused. I like that. He had a little section for what was subjective if you will where he was like Oh, he doesn't like the alien design doesn't like but was like, oh, we're gonna throw that out So why didn't you throw this one out if that was too long? I guess that's just his preference Like yeah until he makes an argument about what could be cut Just ignore this Two and two and a half So man is still being two hours and 28 minutes isn't anything out of the ordinary And I can't really think of many scenes that they could have taken out to make it shorter And now the krypton intro I think it's interesting that he doesn't like it because it is actually a more comic accurate version of superman's Homeworld the ice cover on that most people are aware of was created for the richard donner movie Okay, I'll tell you why he probably cares. It's because cosmonaut in the past has argued that if you're accurate to the comics That's like a plus. It's good. Yeah. Yeah, so we Know it when it's uh the mandarin. Yeah, it's not Also, I can think of a comic book argument thing. It's always a tism always I can also at least I can also think of at least one scene that we can cut from the movie to make it Shorter and improve the characters immensely the scene where Pop Kent is talking to Clark at the truck that scene just cut it out completely cut to them in the farm In the barn. That's all you gotta do The yeah, it'll improve the film and it makes it shorter. So why not? In how he complains how unlike the comics this version of superman is but then complains about a comic accurate section Also, this intro serves multiple purposes one It shows us superman's homeworld and his father since not many movies have spent that much time on them We get a glimpse at their politics and the world he comes from to introduces So I don't care if not really shitty. It's really bad Glimpse that politics in the world that he comes from. I mean, I'm not I'm not in the position to argue that it's a Uh, like like a useless scene in terms of adding anything to the story It's it's what it adds to the story that I take issue with There's lots of things in this scene that have really stupid. We've been over them and I don't have any steel coverage Issues with it conceptually as an idea I'm fine with this amount of backstory to explain things. It's what's being explained And I'd like it would be no point in us rehashing all of it. It was in one of the man of steel E-faps. So Go back to that one if you're interested folks. Yeah, I can subscribe. Don't forget to smash that bell for notifications Metal, all right guys. Yeah Shatter legs. Oh, wait. No, it's right Blinkist Blinkist, right Watch a movie for you Lost You know when I was researching this video, I needed to learn about Paradise Lost So instead of reading it, I went to Blinkist and read a summary of it. You make fun of it, but that's what they do Wow Blinkist is on fiction. So I guess they're safe from Paradise Oh, oh, wait, is that a fence? Oh wait All right Don't worry about the main antagonist as well as his relationship with Jor-El and three It shows us a key item for the plot later on But we don't like this section. That's fine. I just think it's interesting that he doesn't he then goes. Oh, okay. Okay Glad we went over it if you don't care so Thank you to bring up everyone for just wasting a fucking time Yeah, well like this video needed to be any longer than it already is to uh to don't to Bump that up there, Mel. If I was a fan of cosmonaut and I was watching this video I'd be like you didn't debunk anything in there. You just said that They didn't say anything. Yeah You just said you didn't like that. He didn't like it, but you don't actually care. So it's okay Which is funny. We're moving through this video way faster because there's no arguments being made yet Hey Yeah And goes on to mention that the last third of this movie is nothing but action the last third of this movie is just Blind mass Destruction. Yeah, it's and I understand when people say they get they get overloaded Yeah With with just the non-stop destruction explosions and it's like, yeah I understand Yeah, your brain can't really handle it all I think you lose the sensor scale pretty quick. You're just like what even matters anymore Um, this came up when we discussed Uh, mission impossible with ren how slowing down every now and then will actually help the pacing Absolutely when it's just constantly it was just constant action like We need a breather and we don't really get that in this I'll tell you what the breather is when they show the graveyard of metropolis. It's like it's fine You're like, oh my god Yeah I remember this distinctly like Uncharted 2 has really great pacing after the massive train sequence that goes on for like an hour and it's just non-stop like Action ramping up. You have a Really long time to just sort of ease up like there's an hour of just really calm Exploration exploring these locations and puzzles and stuff before the action ramps up again. I'm shot at three It's just fucking action all the time But to bolster your uncharted two points interesting because uh after the train wreck, um, there's a bit of like Okay, this is kind of intense, but it's not as fast paced as as the uh the train sequence itself is And then finally it slows down completely when you're in the village Yeah, no, it's it's really We need time to slow down like batman v superman is another example of just as soon as the third act starts It doesn't stop Um, I think I think the simplest way to translate this to somebody is the lows define the highs and vice versa We want them to recognize them And I think it's also worthwhile to note that like a you can have something that is Really like 24 is probably a good example That's a show that kind of is meant to like never let up, but it does Like there are times when things slow down people reference hardcore. Henry is like see that's not non-stop. It's like well Actually, there are several seeds in Where he talks to people for a bit Yeah, so even hardcore. Henry isn't non-stop Anyway They even do that in wrestling like when there's like a long ass paper view is like four hours long. That's like It's like matches with no stakes or whatever. So people can go It's like Imagine you're the guy this is my so I'm just shy and this is all right. It's low stakes. Matt. Let me give this Mad max fury road has plenty of scenes that slow down and let the characters interact with each other die hard You know, we're john mclean is stuck in this in this tower that's taken over by terrorists He you know, there's plenty of scenes that slow down and Let us get to know these characters better and in process what's what's happening In this it's quite um quite a ride But um, I would still categorize it as like i'm not shitting on it as like it's broken because it's action for too long I'm just saying I understand when people say that they struggle to register everything anymore after about You know half an hour buildings blowing up Yeah, it it's just kind of it's overload It's it's basically a 60 minute long dragon ball fight And it's not like this movie even has the cool action directing that snider is known for It's literally just characters slamming into each other for an entire hour After a while you just become desensitized to it My eyes just glaze over as it keeps going and it keeps drawing out So the way you counter this if you were able is you you start trying to find how the fight changes How there's lots of in so if someone described like Yeah, new locations new places new moves. Yeah, that's how you counter it I'm curious how he's going to counter this because I don't think as much you can do to counter this position It's pretty strong. It's like congratulations. Yeah This is this is a great bit of criticism from cosmonaut. It's not great. I mean You have to understand I'm grading on a curve. Yeah, it's scaling for cosmo. This is great. Good job, buddy And the cosmo curve last I always thought this was kind of a weird criticism considering that most of the movies and the genre are mostly made up of action We were this close to greatness Anyone could go for this this fight Okay, so I'm I'm just trying to think uh in iron man the film there's Well, no, you don't need to do Oh, I'm assuming rags are saying is what about ism from this guy You don't need to do what he's missed the argument So if I told you I can't stand this constant because there's two forms of criticism The action is too samey and it goes on for too long his responses action like this is in other stuff Like so first of all that wasn't what I said was wrong and secondly it doesn't matter if it's in other stuff That's not relevant. I thought like he said that like superhero films are mainly made up of action scenes like this Well, yeah, that's what he says the what about it? That would be yeah, like it wouldn't for all we know cosmo hates all fucking super hero movies really hitting the point Yeah, it's not really a reference. Um What he should like I said the defense of this would have been no, it's not actually simplistic battles. It's it's uh, and I mean, I'm trying to think of what you could argue like Is a it is mainly they just hit each other and they they fly away, right? Yeah, well the problem is like when it's zod and once that starts. Yeah, it is mostly just Even with the other ones though. They they punch He lays is one of them once for a few seconds. That's different Oh, yeah, I guess But okay, so yeah, like you could like I could Try and make a defense of this like see they go to this new place now Look now this they have this interaction other fighting different people now the stakes are different The final fight that's like, all right. So why is this fight working so well? Constantly what you I mean the the main thing is that the character stuff is on point But the big thing is that all of these heroes are leveraging their unique abilities to try and disable each other and like Cap is cap is trying to basically interfere with tony, you know killing uh, bucky bucky's just trying to run away An iron man is trying to incapacitate Uh cap and kill bucky And so that's reflected in like all of the moves that they keep using and then the balance shifts each time Somebody lands a hit or like um and then just disabling slowly each of iron man's utility Things so that he can't kill him as efficiently Yeah, there's a lot working there and and just and and and I mean a good example is He is so angry tody is so angry that he tries to shoot a missile into fucking bucky's face Like with his head right next to him I think you could read a lot from how angry he is just by that whereas in this movie It's like I don't know you're both hitting each other. You're both just punching each other a lot that um with If I was directing this movie I'd be like we need to be creative and find ways of making this fight more entertaining than simply I throw you through building you throw me through building I think that'd be the big thing Have them actually Like when they land hits it can be it doesn't have to be you fly away It could be that you tank it and you look actually like hurt you try and do counters and block Even he's a soldier like zorg should be able to do loads of shit instead of just punch Punch punch. Yeah, like uh The the warehouse scene in bvs, you know, it starts with batman like blowing a hole through the floor He jumps up. He disables all the guns. He just he drops down. He grabs a dude's gun He's forced him to shoot at his buddies causing everyone to duck down He so he's accounting for anyone else that might still be up. He's doing all these different moves He slams one dude's head over it like like on a crate as he vaults over it and then throws that crate at someone with his grapple gun It's like it there's a point where he's fighting four dudes at a time that have surrounded him which Uh, you rarely see in batman movies where they account for multiple combatants trying to take him on at once And he manages to take them all out. It's like there's a lot of really cool little moments in this one fight scene It's constantly shifting What is batman dealing with right now and how is he dealing with it? I think the big thing is account for their vulnerabilities What is it that they like the fact that batman can be shot and killed means it like yeah He does need to get rid of the guns and and like someone's probably shouting at us for that reason They're like why are you comparing a superman fight with a batman fight and it's like The vulnerability for superman. I think the first one that should come to everyone's minds is he cares about civilians And so the fight Yeah, the fight Yeah, you get to spend the fight with zod doing different things to really just fuck the people of earth up and superman keeps Stopping him countering him until he decides I have to kill him in the process. Yeah But they don't do that. They just have them punch each other through fucking buildings over it over again until They yeah, that's very exciting. I'm going to shoot my laser shoot the whip Shoot the whip Yeah, i'll be honest. Yeah, i'll be enough Batman's punches in the warehouse fight feel a lot more meaningful than superman's punches against zod in their fight True they do they do because because again the sound mixing and just the way that The people that he's punching are reacting to getting punches like that looks like that fucking hurts Well, yeah, like when when it's just people Super people getting punched into buildings. It's like I don't even understand how this registers for you Whereas when it's a person getting punched in the face It's like oh getting thrown into a bubble bath. You're like is that is that even here? I don't know Yeah I'll draw it back. So yeah, what happened here was Cause we're not sad too No variety in the fight went on for too long in his first counter as well as in other superhero movies He keeps drawing out and I care less and less I always thought this was kind of a weird criticism considering that most of the movies in the genre are mostly made up of action Really, what man is still does differently is that it saves most of the action for the second half of the movie What a weird What a weird argument Not the one I'd make But uh Hey, you're the one who's trying to defend. I don't even know how to like superman Hey, at least it saves this action for the late portions. Like isn't that kind of just bolstering what uh cosmonaut said Like once it pays well, you want to spread that out for good pacing Yep, yeah instead of half of the movie has no action and then half of the movie is just all action Weird counter, but all right, it's exhausting very stilted I had a headache When we were finished with watching this movie I think most people do even if they don't admit Action, let's talk about the level of destruction in the film So marcus, what do you think and the destruction in this film is borderline apocalyptic? This is the fucking end of the world. I'm not don't forget who causes a lot of it. He's completely right. Don't forget who causes a lot of it I say that's a key detail when talking about how much this breaks your scale to Uh, but yeah, you've got the um metropolis extinction of an entire race Yeah, um threatened extinction of humans and then if you consider iron man's big payoff is like a highway um Iron man twos is like this dome where there's loads of drones getting blown up It's like you could argue it's a jump up and then avengers is obviously defending new york city as much as buildings get Um hit by certain things at certain points Everyone's doing everything they can to prevent the damage from happening And of course, it's a huge scale movie, but then you bump it up as you go along in scale I don't This one is just um I honestly think the part of the problem is the lack of recognition for the damage Because yeah, everyone's very upset in uh in adventures of a war so good that too. Yeah, um Like again a key thing that I think a lot of movies tend to like when you have cap Running into a room to kill a bunch of uh, you know jitari when they have a couple of humans You know huddled into a corner Meanwhile, someone's bringing down the mothership or flying a nuke into the mother You're like, oh, we get to have the personal specific fighting the caring about the people involved while also dealing with the big threat Oh God how about how about inspire man homecoming when he fights those uh those bank robbers and they blow up mr What del mar's place? Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Yeah, and then he uh, it's just one rest. Oh, shit I I got I got to go in there and make sure that everyone's okay. Yeah It's uh, yeah, and it's just it's just one restaurant of a guy that we met basically one time It's it's the cat. It's not just the destruction. It is that it's Categorious destruction. It's like is this are we what's happening? Is everyone dying? Like why does the film not even I feel more for one sandwich shop than I do for six buildings collapsing Because my brain is just mush at that point you need people you need to show the people Well, because so someone's gonna be like wait you forgetting lords fish bird trying to rescue that girl from the rebel I don't know what I do and that was a very personal thing with only three people involved. It's a shame. They shout on them, but you know If that was hard you could argue that's more impactful If only we had scenes where a superman was seeing people that were trapped in the rubble It was having to save them while fighting zod if that could be really investing and remember engaging, you know It's the the girl was constantly trying to kill people and see everyone was constantly trying to stop him Yeah, and that girl is the one who said he saved us So like it doesn't really capture what we're talking about at all those people saved themselves Luckily despite superman's recklessness despite superman. Yep Well, she says he saved us in relation to him destroying the the ship that's terraforming the earth, but yes I mean, well, this is the thing. That's what I miss about these this stupid universe is there was a conversation there We never got to have it though Into the wall has that conversation now It's good. Yeah when when it comes to stuff like this It's it's often the intimacy that makes it memorable and important to us not the sheer scale of it Yeah, which is why when your mom dies, it's a really impactful thing and it's life changing But when there's a mudslide in Namibia that kills a village, you don't give a shit I mean, isn't this isn't the quote like when one person dies. It's a tragedy when like a hundred thousand people die. It's a statistic Stalin and A lot of things what would have pushed get that big becomes really hard for us to even sort of Compat, you know, like it becomes hard for us to even understand those numbers It's uh, it's part of a criticism of civil war Which I think is actually you flip it around is actually the point of praise people like Why is it that Tony is more invested in the accords after someone tells him someone they liked died in in the situation? like well When you're a superhero doing all these kinds of things like yeah People are probably dying and you can get numbers at the end of the day and be like damn that sucks But when someone a crying mother comes up to you and tells you about her son Who's doing humanitarian work and died because of your recklessness? That's probably gonna hit you a little harder. It could do it could not do but it's what makes it very personal He was already you get a face a name and some information about the person that died And then you know that that one could be representative of a lot more than just that one A lot of people you just did that to Like damn if there's five thousand people who've died on my watch as we're fighting and this is just one person What what about all those other people? What are their stories? Yeah, so I don't know. I feel like we've really bolstered cosmonaut side right now But I'd love to see how this guy does Superman is going through metropolis without any regard for civilians. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes Wow He's getting basic information correct I'm gonna say the reason south bull is all gas means because that's probably the most valid point cosmonauts made I'm I'm I'm I'm proud of him. Okay He's finally doing it There's actually a really easy answer to why there's so much destruction because there would be wait wait. Oh No, but that was a criticism You are putting the cart before the horse and that's not even a defense of what he's Yeah, that wasn't what he said he said it's about superman not caring about it Whether or not there would be destruction when two super beings punch each other through a city is not the question That's an issue. We can ask why they're punching in the city, but that's a different question Maybe he'll go on to explain. It is an adjacent question Our godlike beings fighting each other would cause a lot of destruction If you look at the anime movies or cartoons were superman. No, he's using the same clip It's the same out of the context clip of him fighting shazam No, no, no, no, no. No, this is this. Okay. This is an empty city Made by lex luther and this fight's being orchestrated to make superman look bad That is the point of this lucer or luther I think I think both of them are valid, but I say luther Okay from me. Yeah luther lex luther, whatever The the the whole point is this is a completely different context than what we have in In man of steel Well, and they take it out of context just to defend man of steel if But the let's pretend for a second that this reference is superman throwing shazam through a bunch of buildings to fight him I would have the same issue I'd be like why are you tossing him through a bunch of buildings superman So this doesn't address it for me and if you want to be like well, it's accurate The comments are like shut the fuck up and answer my question It's the same thing as this other bad thing. All right, I win moving on Man fights it almost always ends up destroying multiple buildings and parts of the city So when that's shown in by the way You have to be more specific than this if superman grabs somebody and Tosses them into a building versus being tossed into a building himself those two things. I have different commentary for right Showing me clips of like see the battle is getting a little out of control and superman can't actually do anything to stop it Is different from superman having the ability to toss them up into space and choosing not to Also, I just want to highlight according to the person that told me about the context of this thing No civilians were even hurt during this fight And we know for a fact that people had to have been hurt during the man of steel Well, I guess I guess the important piece of information is do these guys know that this is a simulation or something Yeah, but like do they? Okay Well, oh, uh, no, I don't I don't know the answer to that question Oh, well, what I mean is if that man if superman and shazam don't know that this is a fake city Then they're culpable even if they didn't kill anyone was the thing. I don't know the context ultimately But it doesn't matter Because it's the fucking no matter Yeah I have action also most of the damage caused in the movie isn't even superman's fault But marcus thinks it is most imagine saying that most of it isn't even his fault I didn't kill most of the people who died. Mm-hmm. That's called an admission of guilt. Mm-hmm Yeah, it's like, oh, she killed some thanks I take issue with that with you ending lives. I didn't end all of them Okay You didn't ask my question I mean soup. I mean hillard didn't kill all the g's He left a few life here and there Because it is and he sees superman as a moral war criminal This makes it even weirder in future movies when the characters in this world see soup This is the this is what the movie should have been about because kind of yes You look at all the footage everyone would have and then you have him in court and you're like, what the fuck were you doing? Why did you do all of this? You killed so many people superman would be like I saved your planet and you'd be like at what cost superman What cost What I mean didn't save them like you could have saved it better like exactly exactly Which is what civil wars about Yeah, but you could have saved the world better. It's like, oh, well, I saved it It's like you did but like did you need to crush all these people? Yeah, they don't really Could you imagine using this logic in the real world like you blow up a building that you believe there are a bunch of insurgents In it's like dude, there are but this was like a hospital too. There are a bunch of like innocent people in there It's like yeah, but I killed the insurgents. There were some guilty ones too Yes, you did but also a bunch of people who weren't insurgents like what were you doing? It's like, hey, look I stopped a terrorist attack. It's like Another whole controversy of drone strikes. It's like What I mean that's a controversy of this Why we have rules on war You can't just do whatever you want because you're set, you know fighting for the the right side or like trying to you know save the world like You know it's repelling like not to try to keep this civilized Yeah, yeah, it's just like Yes, that is our goal, but we can't do that by like blowing up innocent people, you know The first thing he does when he is publicly revealed is destroy the fucking city he destroys the local 7-11 Yeah, local seers and so I'm to bolster him again The shot he showed was superman like pushing zah down into that Whatever it was like train station place 7-11 state No, no not that place the other one where he breaks his neck He pushed zah down into that place Um, there are several moments like that I think the most damning and a lot of people don't like to count this one But you have to is when he lasered the ship and the ship crashed through all of those different buildings That is on superman. Yeah, yeah, like you understand gravity, right? You know that if you destroy a ship, it it comes down But as zahd said if you destroy this ship you destroy krypton and a whole bunch of buildings a part of your And metropolis fucking hell. Who's cider you on? I just don't think this is a good plan I think my favorite part of batman v superman is that it makes It makes fulmenter because fulmenter says it's three mostly empty buildings But what you see in batman v superman is it goes through like a good seven or eight buildings. I think that was How about the fact that superman's got super hearing and uh as zahd is lasering the the way an enterprise is placed A couple floors above them is bruce wanes employee jack Who is praying because he knows he's about to die and the fact that superman apparently doesn't hear him Doesn't save him. That's because superman knows he's the real god Let me tell you what the reasoning will be from twin perfect and tex and whoever the other guy was It was superman's first day on the job. All right Yeah, he's not he's not perfect. Do you want everyone to be perfect south for it? Are we saying I I like the idea of this whole It's my first day thing. Could you like imagine if you counted it with twin perfect life? We have I know I know but it's just it just amuses me a lot It's my first day. Can you imagine if you're like at mcdonald's? It's like, all right So what you do is you flip the burgers, all right You just wait until it's there and then and then you flip it and then they just grab a bowl of grease All over the grill set on fire. It's like You know, like it's the whole mcdonald's burnt out. It's my first day. I didn't know any better What's funny is I work at mcdonald's got me some slack. Yeah, that's not quite that's not because you're making me think about it now It's like that's not even how you categorize like if someone who's a veteran worker makes a mistake They go, uh, kind of no excuse. It's not my first day. It's like, well, no, you just made an accident It was an accident. Everyone has accidents. Yeah, like you don't go. Oh, it's my first day So it's chill like that usually what happens for stuff. You just don't know how it works Superman knows how humans work. He knows the superman knows how life Yeah, like so shit excuse Superman me It may be his first day wearing the superman costume or being called superman or whatever But this is not his first day on earth using his powers to save people We see him do it multiple times earlier in the film He does it with the the school bus full of children that his dad says maybe he should have let drown He does it on the oil drilling platform with the guys that are about to burn to death and saves their lives He's been a hero for a while And the local eye hop and that kind of domestic terrorism would never be forgiven. Uh, probably right. Yeah He would in the real world. They would be like, what the fuck was if they had enough evidence Yeah, it's not domestic terrorism, but it's uh, I'd say it's gross negligence. Yeah Yeah, I think it's say it'd be something like that. Yeah Yeah, he is responsible for smashing za through a 7 11 at factory I'll give you that but that was superman losing his temper because his mother was threatened It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if he lost his temper. It doesn't fucking matter if he lost his temper I killed my wife because I got so fucking fed up with her bullshit. He's like, all right innocent then He leaves his mother with two other This falls apart in many ways. He's angry It's the ultimate cure all for any problem. He was just angry rags point was ambitious or whatever point and another point on top This is not the only instances. There are several more most importantly being the ship one. I think There's three There's there's three people threatening my family member. What am I going to do? I'm going to grab one of them and I'm going to like carry him far far away and leave the other two people with my family member Great. I got well. I can't believe this if the argument is he's acting irrationally because she's threatened Then I guess he's right, but that doesn't help anything. You know, is is he concerned about his mother's safety? Is that the explanation not a justification? Well, if he's the smartest thing for his mother's safety, then he should just I don't know Not fucking carry him far away from where she is leaving him leaving her with two other hostile aliens I I don't know man Like if a guy's got a gun to my mom's head and I just spray in a salt rifle all over the room and kill a bunch of children If you're like, well, I was angry. It's like that doesn't really explain it It's weird. I don't think you realize why that doesn't explain it. You just think that you can do anything No, but really what was the real reason I wanted to protect my mom. You're like, yeah, but that wasn't really It's my first time shooting a gun. Look at all the blood. What's crazy about this Is um, I think it would be a way better scene if let's say this isn't zod zod is somewhere else He takes the one that's threatening his mum and just Like shouts at them while he fires them all the way up into orbit and just shoots them out And they can't fly so they're just fucked and he's like furious, but he doesn't save them He just lets them die We'd be like first of all excellent use of not getting any other civilians in trouble Secondly, is that the correct way to deal with someone like this? Should you give them the punishment that is floating through space until they just die from whatever You know what I mean? We'd have a lot more to talk about that's a lot more interesting and you could argue He did it because he was really angry. Is there something Superman would do Hmm, I don't know Instead we got this where he drags odd through a whole bunch of civilian areas because he's upset At the the potential of a human life being taken like good job. You think you can threaten my mother Oh bad film This thing can do but that was also kind of a point more on that later But the rest of the small bill fight is him trying to fight off two equally powerful and better trained Kryptonians Well, sorry mate as how are they equally powerful? They shouldn't be but they are um as twinpific conceded to us There is at least one instance in this fight where he has the chance to move the fight away And he just doesn't We would argue there's a lot more than one But uh, yeah, even people who defend this film would say that arc was not making the best choices in uh in this fight And it's really just him getting his ass handed to him for most of the fight How is that his fault? He didn't throw himself through that bank. He didn't take down the helicopter or jet But he did throw them into the train yard. He didn't Yeah, he also where was he during all of these things happening when he could have clearly prevented it because it shows Him stopping one of them from jumping on the jet. Where was he? He just disappears from the film for a while Also to kind of a shitty job with uh saving the people that were in the jet in the helicopter He saves the one guy that felt that falls out of helicopter that guy like dies immediately afterwards basically Let's move on to metropolis that was a story about the world engine while superman was on the other side of the planet That was his choice Yeah, it was his choice. He didn't go for the superman for the metropolis one He went for the one over the indian ocean where there are no people Yep, it's like A lot only have to disable one to stop it and he chose to go to the one that wasn't the highly populated city You know what there was no scary snake thing that defended the metropolis one from the ship And so you can conclude that superman would have been able to go straight through it Swoom and then go straight to the second one who punched it Yeah, even even if um, he went to the metropolis one first and disabled that one and the world engine was still going He can he's super fast. He can fly He can make his way around the earth in no time. So, uh, yeah, this is also his fault. Thank you for reminding me video You know, you know the slogan with great power comes great responsibility. Well, superman's got like the greatest power ever So he's got some pretty like His responsibility is going to be heavier than say captain america's who probably can't do anything in this situation But he would try dammit bulletproof he's not cap can certainly fight off against chateau re warriors and whatnot, but I don't think he stands a chance against kryptonians. Nope, so He doesn't show up to metropolis until after zod's followers are all sucked through the phantom zone Thank you for showing the clip where he fucking downs the ship and crashes through all this bill You did it. You did it. You helped your you helped your video movie And then the final battle starts all of this damage is from the world engine when superman wasn't By the way, superman also helped orchestrate a plan to create a black hole over metropolis That can't be understated. Lucky it worked perfectly well Even around and then from here they destroy a few more buildings a parking garage a satellite before Finally crash landing most of the damages Just it's just like the twin person video. They're very casual about the discussion It's like what incidents of damage sure several I guess maybe The city wasn't caused by superman because he wasn't even around for it now about superman being honest and he We've already been over how fucking wrong he is. We could just move on He's seen as a hero in future films Even weirder in future movies when the characters in this world see superman as a hero I can yeah Understand see how some word I can see how some wouldn't this is the failing of the movie is that we're kind of left confused on Superman's position in the world And they show us lots of things to support Essentially both like you got these people worshiping him and then you got batman like shitting on him constantly Then you got the people protesting him So you kind of just like what is what is the current thought on superman? You know the media questions like should we have a superman should superman Can I just have two people talk about man of steel in universe like what happened in it, please We're only including bb is just sleek does not count in this movie He's seen more as an ally because he's the only one who stands a chance against his odd and his followers And that's only after the military starts shooting at him before then they also consider him a threat And even at the end they're still uncertain Of course they are Motherfucker destroyed metropolis Yeah, the dude is like unstoppable and he's clearly okay with not minimizing damage You know, you won't one day act against america's interests great quality in kansas general I hate that. How do I know you're telling the truth? Yeah, but it doesn't even matter like has anyone in america ever gone against american interests like nope That's impossible. No, there's never been a time to convey ever been shot with treason. Nope What the fuck response is that? About as american as it's from kansas. Oh, we don't really feel so that scene ends with him saying I'm gonna do shit the way I want to do it. It's like, oh Yeah, you can't control me. So don't even try to watch me basically So the answer is yes, I may very well act against america's interests because I'm gonna do what I want to do Like, okay Good to know that is not reassurance. Yeah Really concerning of anything to see how people feel about him until the next movie And the biggest plot point for vbs is that most of the people don't see him as a hero and reject him It's not most people not even clear. Yeah, we don't know we see from protesters But it seems like the whole point of bbs is that or sorry like uh justice league Is that people are really like bummed out and upset when superman's dead Like the whole point is hope is died Yeah, at the very end And don't even yeah hope is dead because of superman The world's greatest detective being unable to in any way piece together super bad is a good person Because he's a fucking idiot also the well the the tracks as well pushing him over the edge. Oh Good riot including bruce wane It's only after he sacrificed himself to kill doomsday that people actually accept him He mentions that he hates that superman killed zod And this again is something I've never been so like people hated and to top it off it ends with superman Murdering zod, which is just he didn't murder zod very wrong. I've already yeah, I don't think this wow cosmo That's oh wow It's killing It is very very but we our argument is like, why didn't you fucking do this sooner and cosmo's like, ah, this is murder um Tell me man. This is so here's the problem Wait, wait, wait, wait, didn't cosmonaut say that um, it was framed as a bad thing when Anakin Skywalker executes count dooku as if that was uh, that was a bad thing for the movie. Remember He's arguing from a faithful standpoint not for a moral one Yeah, it's it's it's nice. He's murder. So yeah, he does say murder. Well, I didn't say he was right. I just said So Yeah, the the interesting thing here right is to the person that says superman should never kill I'd be like we can have that conversation But we can't have it here because this superman has already killed many people Like I so now the argument has to be He would never kill the last kryptonian this superman. I'd be like, I don't know. He killed a bunch of unborn kryptonians I don't think like I don't think yeah He basically condemned the race to not even be able to exist That's he literally says krypton had its chance. Yep. So all the left with is uh, Would Couldn't you have done something else? It's like, I mean maybe but you got the job done, right? Like this guy's fucking crazy I don't know like the idea because some people say you could have choked him out. It's like possible Yeah, I don't I don't know the biology and I don't know if it was so many definitely could have done but uh, I don't See myself being against this choice if I was in his brain and he suggests should I break this guy's neck? I probably be like, uh, yeah, I guess so He's about to kill more people and you've already destroyed me at one point Yeah, this guy's super strong You might not be able to beat him later on and he has clearly stated his intentions for wanton destruction and murder I think it's a good idea to kill him And so yeah, I I have questions for both of these people, I guess but with cosmo I'd be like you took issue with this but not with all of the other murdering he'd been or killing he'd been doing Interesting Clowned on this for so i'm not going to repeat myself too much If you're strong enough to snap his fucking neck and leave a shock wave afterwards Then why don't you just aim his face somewhere else? Even shy after this I mean that's actually so it's weird because cosmonauts making good points That he makes a bad point and he goes right back and making good points. This is such a roller coaster I mean it Could have a point but it's fine I'd say it's half of a point because to what end right if you move his face away and he just tries to move it back, you know It is an extremely destructive Weapon that you're just putting in a different direction now like this comes to a point where you just got to fucking end That scene of just those two on the ground fighting and it's like stop it. Let me look at him What's going on? I just want to see the beautiful baby child while while the retarded family just stands there They're not sure what to do All right, let's see other counters Who superman is as a character, but i want to talk about the zod neck break a little bit more How else could he have finished the fight and yes, he probably could have turned his head away from the family But they have been fighting and no progress has been made and zod made it clear that he will kill as many humans I mean my issue isn't even like I go further than that. Why didn't he take so long to kill him? Yeah, that's yeah, that's our issue. Maybe we're like you got a this odd guy. You've got to kill him We're black killed on this topic. You know we'll go way further than anyone goes. We're zod killed too long to kill him Yeah, how about that? So How do you uh, how does heat vision affect kryptonians? So if um superman were to try to I guess I mean this is going to have the same effect as uh breaking zod's neck just using your heat vision on his head Um And instantaneously killing him and that doesn't work. He's like, oh wait, so heat vision doesn't work on kryptonians Then what if I just like put my hand over his eyes Well, you say we already know that the heat vision didn't even work on the non superpowered kryptonians Remember no, it didn't it didn't work in the wrong way. Well, like wait, it worked in that it annoyed them But it didn't like it didn't piece their armor even inconclusive. Yeah, I'll give you that um It might do something, but we don't quite know yet. It isn't pleasant. It'd be worth testing me. What if you um, hold their eyelids down? That's the thing is like I think that it would be worth like testing out in this scenario where you've got zod in the headlock And you you've managed to stall him from lasering some people to death It's like could this work could could I do this and then you like you try it and it doesn't work It's like, okay. I that that won't work. So I can I guess safely Uh laser myself I suppose But then if it does work, it's like, whoa, this is really powerful Why didn't I do this the soul side? I'm on team zod pel. He should have killed him faster Took too long. Yeah. Yep He's Oh, by the way, this would be my evidence him saying I'm going to kill everybody. This is also a criticism of zod's character This is definitely a crazy person. This is him explicitly stating his intentions And you know, he has the power to carry it out and he doubt right tries to do it You've got to remember the defense of this. Well zod is a soldier He needs to fight. That's what they do. They just kill This is an opportunity to put it into it Also, this isn't something he did happily like then the richard donner superman He begs out the stop kills him thing. Let's have a cry and sobs after. Yeah, it's really weird because He cares more for zod than he did for the embryos, but All the people of earth the sound of wailing and death all around him He cares more about zod than anyone. He killed It's it's really strange. Just the one person you should probably okay with It's his is that he wanted to do but it shows that he's willing to make a hard decision to save others. Oh good It's really tough. Yeah, it's really hard to say. I'm glad he's willing to I'm glad he's willing to want division this shit and make a big sacrifice for everybody. Thanks. So man thrilled to hear it What a super hero What a what a hard decision to kill someone that's in the process of trying to kill other people That's such a hard decision to make Hard call when you've got a guy that's like maliciously trying to kill innocent people He gets worse the more you detail it. It's like, what's his motivation? He just wants to kill people Oh, yeah, just to just to spite cal l Like then the richard donner superman he begs out the stop kills him thing Let's have a cry and sobs afterwards This isn't something that he wanted to do but it shows that he's willing to make a hard decision to save others This is also superman siding with humanity by taking out the only other member of his race He's letting him low bar No Siding with humanity How nice of him to side This is what I mean. It's like someone punches you in the face. This is like I did this because I'm your friend You're like, I don't I don't follow like you're like. Oh, well, you know, can you be my enemy instead? It's just what if this was friendship is I don't know Yeah, who needs enemies fucking if Ross from so all was in this universe the imagine the fucking montage he could make Yeah I hear there's this super person guy. What's going on? What's the what's the story with this dude? You know how oh boy, he is screaming and then cap says turn it off because one just getting really uncomfortable Um, the equivalent would be screaming and the superman is just smiling while looking at the screen. It's like I saved the world I did all of it really well. I chose my guide Ross is like, oh, I don't think the point is coming through No, like at At best superman's like, okay, that's enough and Ross is like, no, there's more There's a lot more. We're not even 10 of the way through the day. He's like, look at the video file suit Man, there's 10 hours. Everybody got like this the first three seconds Yeah, why do you send transfer for this one? I Is raised up and kind could survive next he says the best superman stories are the ones that explore humanity The best superman stories focus on his humanity because that's the key I mean to me it would just be like it's probably Very character driven and they're going to be the very I'd say it's subjective But I think you could make some pretty compelling arguments for it To making us like him. He was raised on earth He was raised by humans and his full life of experiences up to this point Is that of a human on you don't even need the comics to make these arguments. I completely agree. No We we We made this argument in the man of steel efab movies. Yeah, he's correct. Yep. What one to one with us Earth he's a human first a human that just so happens to also be an alien And this is something that I have never seen written well in a superman movie. This is interesting to me interesting, um Never yeah, I was gonna say ever did he watch the original? I don't know Yeah, let's say the original does a pretty good job. See we're kind of a really good guy He really wants to defend people and he's uh Maybe he's referring to something specific like test. I don't know. I don't know if those are weird I need him to qualify, but I doubt he will in this video. Yeah To me because this whole movie is about Clark Kent finding himself People go into this movie assuming that superman is gonna have all these traits right off the bat That isn't this superman yet. This is a journey off the bat. He's like 30. No, no, no I hate this argument that he's going to become that superman. You he doesn't value human life is what you're saying And he's going to learn too. That's fucking crazy Generally, if you don't learn to value human life by your 30s, you are really fucked up horrible person But it's not even true. We know that he does that's it's a contradiction. We're highlighting in the film This man is not like Shown to be the um, I'm trying to think of what is like a what is like a superhero character who just doesn't care about people Uh, it's hard to find a reference Who doesn't care about people. I mean I suppose um Deadpool an interesting even he cares about him in a utility sense That's the thing. Well, I was gonna say an interesting one not necessarily one-to-one is um, you guys remember I think it's in the I can't remember if it's in the comic or not. Well, I haven't read it So I wouldn't know but um dr. Manhattan He um They ask him why he seems very apathetic Yeah, like the whole point is he's evolved so far past that he he's doing it because he knows that's what he should do rather than That's how he feels Like he doesn't actually feel for the human beings and they ask him Why did he like explode a lot of the enemies in different scenarios instead of just taking the guns away Or doing whatever else and when he's faced with that question, he doesn't even know the answer because he's just like I don't know. I stopped them He doesn't he doesn't like the idea of blowing up their guns versus blowing up them There's not really much of a difference. And by the way, someone's probably pissed at me for misrepresenting dr Manhattan. It's not the point. It's to represent an idea which is not in this film The man of steel Clark he very much values human life to the point where his dad is like, whoa your identity bro But then that doesn't sink in at all because he does the thing with the oil tanker um And then so in the film he's shown he cares about people to the point where he will Fuck up his own life according to his dad, right? He cares about him a lot But then in the in the last act is kind of like wait wait clock Wait, what did you look over there? Look at all those screaming people. What have you done? And he's like, huh? No, I don't Don't know what you're highlighting. I'm confused. So saying well, he's going to become super bad It's like that's a worthless fucking argument then The version Superman that people are more familiar with this whole movie is a learning experience for him And it's actually a more human version You're learning about your history and the costume you're gonna wear and your relationship to the american government as you save people's lives Is not the same as you let people die. It's like, yeah, but he's going to learn to not do that It's like, what are you talking about? How goody it's not even that he let them die Like knowingly and that he was upset about it and that in future he'll try better in this film He doesn't even seem to acknowledge it. I'm not even sure he knows This is yeah, it's bizarrely just not mentioned This is shit that any 20 year old that Reads a superman comic would Like they would ask themselves what they would do if they had superman's powers Like at this point we've got superman who's in his 30s now He should already know what he would be doing in these situations Given that he's actually been in situations where people's lives are in peril and he uses his powers to save them Again, it's just like he's he's already been a hero for so long. Yeah This to me feels like a very sneaky deviation. You're like, why is it that he puts so many human beings in danger? It's like, well because he hasn't become the superman you know yet. It's like No, I'm not even talking about the superman. Jesus Christ. What is he now? Version of Clark, he knows he's different and knows nothing about his parents too He goes lost with his place in the world and has been seeking answers It doesn't explain his reckless nature toward human lives. Stop Not doing anything for your argument right now But the whole movie he shows us that he isn't infallible from little things like taking some clothes from someone's car That is not the same No, I I feel like we have to now we could talk about scale for a little bit Okay, so captain marvel stealing a guy's bike for Offering her a ride versus superman needs clothes and he steals clothes off of a clothes line Guys, how expensive do these clothes look compared to a motorcycle? I just like I just I'm baffled like that you'd reference this There's nothing whether or not you're willing to steal An article of clothing has nothing to do with whether or not you're willing to let people die and not care about it Yeah, these are these are on two completely different like planes of impact and important Well, you see rags. It comes under the umbrella of he's not infallible What thing yeah It's an interesting umbrella you've got there think thing done A car instead of asking for them or destroying this douchebags truck That's a terrible scene That's a really big issue You know, there may be an argument to be like you have to understand clock is a sociopath in this film Okay, I think there's lots of evidence for this Like oh my god Yeah, I think it'd be easier to make that case than the case that he really cares This scene belongs in the boys this is something that the homelander would totally do Um, this is not superman though It's not even the fucking clark kent that we see in this movie Who seems concerned initially about saving the people on the oil rig He has the flashback showing like his uh, his inclination to save those kids in the bus that maybe he should have let them drown it's just like Man, this is uh, this seems a bit out of character with the clark kent that we see in the past And in like one of the first scenes in the movie Means that marcus isn't a fan of a simple scene of clark washing up on shore after saving people in the beginning of the Movie he doesn't have any clothes and he just sees some clothes lying around Clark finds the unattended clothing outside. He takes them and he continues on his way But what if we take the opportunity to have a cute character moment that's specific to superman? I personally don't think clark kent would steal clothes even if he really needed them I I mean I my I was reading this video from him before. I know what he says off to this Maybe let it say That's well, let it play. Okay I can see him awkwardly going up to the door and asking for the clothes This would be a cute chance to have some fun dialogue showing that clark is nice almost to a fault No, no, you said fun. We don't do that here. Um, I am fine with either I think that someone is capable of doing either. I don't think that yeah Like the idea that it's like i'm too good to steal socks and a t-shirt like I mean No, I guess I guess the logic is that at least it gives you something that you can do You can do something with could you not count by saying that is not this clark though this clark's weird Well, that's sort of the point of the discussion in the first place. I think that's the point He's trying to make is like we'll do it differently Well, I mean, I think it would have benefited the film greatly for his character and for just the tone to make him endearing Yeah, I uh Like if cosmonaut said this to me, I should be like, oh, well, yeah, but we're gonna have to change all the scenes, right? with with clark Because he's fucking he's not really In all of them, he's like a dow a little piece of shit But I I think I understand the sentiment then that like if we did that sort of approach with him throughout all these Scenes and that those scenes as much as their um Plot relevant in terms like oh, how does he get the clothes? But we can also show character through them. It's like, yeah, I agree with that That's film efficiency But the funny thing is As he stands in this movie Do you think he would do the one or the other and do you think it's more valuable to do the other? In this movie, I feel like you could do that. Yeah, I think you could do either And if we can do either we may well choose the one that actually makes him look like a better person I think that's probably worth it. Well, yeah, it just it services his character It's it's a good for tonality and what's come before and gets us to let him know him I mean, he could be he could even like start to do it and then stop like maybe he sighs And then he put he even goes back and puts them up And then he goes back and you can have it be funny like marvel where he the door opens in this an old lady She's like, oh my god. He's like hello, ma'am or Or I don't know like he leaves a note or something or Yeah I'd say now we're in the format of just yeah, I like it like we could make everything I would like a different movie. Yeah Basically a different movie would be great. Uh, also give me just a second. I need to get a drink here Um I would say the scene happens early on enough that you're uh, it's just kind of establishing what this version of clark is like and he's uh A lot less moral than christopher reeve superman would be um I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to show that this is what he does Uh, but I I of course would prefer. Yeah, you know what? Make this version of clark a little bit more endearing Why not that's kind of where I was I was like, I think you could do both of them But I definitely prefer because it could be a reference or something You feel like remember when he did the thing with the clothes with asking for permission and stuff I was like that's clear that they're trying to get across to you that this character isn't just a fucking crazy man At the same time like stealing the clothes themselves. It's like it just seems a lot A lot less consequential than Many of the other things that he does in this movie. Well to to to go from mass Killing like genocide to hey, he's not infallible. All right. He steals clothes Like what I mean like if I'm washing my clothes and I'm I'm drying them out on a clothes line outside And someone steals them because they need my clothes like well shit. I'm gonna have to buy some new clothes That's inconvenient, but it's not like they stole my car And there's a thing if I knew that the person was like Super raggedy and just washed up and they took my t-shirt and socks or something. I probably I probably be like, hmm Well, I hope the yeah, you know, I guess Include a couple shots of the old lady in the house. She sees this, you know Guy walking up to her clothes line and you're like, hmm And but like, you know, she sees that she that that he steals her clothes like her clothes off the clothes line And she's like, yeah, whatever Well, that's just so many different fucking ways you could execute um I was just thinking just in matter for a second like the the people who defend these films They think the people who attack them are like idiots who didn't understand it and made shitty points That's all I have to say about these videos that we've seen. They're like really shitty counter points And so you just you just like is this all it is Is it just two sides that ignore each other forever? Would this be applicable to any other sections of argument that happened on the internet? one It's also one um commenting on the twin perfect debate saying like this for them After all the other ones has proven that like discussing media with people who disagree with you is almost pointless It's like, yeah Well, hello Greta would agree with you. Um If like like we've just had so many instances where it hasn't been pointless though So I'm like, I'm not really worried about that if you have someone who just can't uh Can't address like two different conflicting pieces of information. They refuse to It's less so like damn conversation has failed us. It's more so That person has uh some stuff to do some thinking to do Maybe they'll come back one day Because we're all conduits For information being from these different media we can only express What we saw and how we collate all of that information and so we can fail or succeed at different points And you know, if you're in an aggressive call with a bunch of people you disagree with Maybe you're just not encouraged to concede on anything But maybe yeah, I mean I like having A decent amount of time you know like a seed has been planted I wonder if maybe over time someone like twin perfect might be like, you know Movies aren't quite as good as I thought Yeah, I mean I like having conversations with people about this sort of stuff Sometimes they're disingenuous. Sometimes they're not I find out which ones are disingenuous I'm like, all right. I'm gonna spend less time with you. I'm gonna spend more time with Someone that can engage in a discussion with me in good faith You know, we've we've had plenty of instances of people's minds being changed on movies No, that doesn't happen didn't uh, did what does Ren's reviews think of mission possible for that these days? Um, been a while since I've spoken to him I don't think he like loves the movie or anything, but he at least can see that that's not badly written Oh, there you go and perfect. We haven't gotten there yet Let us let us continue with how it's okay that he did mass killings because He took a shit The movie will introduce the Clark Kent We see him attempt to stand up to a guy who's harassing a waitress Clark then gets bullied by the man and gets so embarrassed that he goes outside and does this to his truck when nobody is It's not about embarrassment. No, no, no, it's he didn't do it because he was embarrassed He did it because he's spiteful more. So yeah, he wanted to get back at the guy And so he did it in a way that would destroy his livelihood. I don't know that I care about the category of it It's just to me it's like vengeance Like what the fuck yeah, it is. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of stuff like if I was in his position I sure as hell wouldn't have done that It's incredibly petty especially given the craftsmanship that would be involved and getting the truck looking like this I don't think I think this goes past petty Yeah, um, I think this is past pettiness It's because this would take this would take some time to do right? It's so it's like yeah, it's almost you would have to make sure no one saw him He'd have to go like slowly driving the the the logs through the truck making as little noise as possible And he'd have to lift it up and oh like I don't know how he would have done this Because well, I I remember when we were watching this I'm like convenience I'm like, how did how did no one notice I'm doing this? So well that that comes in a sec. First of all, let's figure out how like so maybe he takes some logs off lifts the truck up by flying He doesn't know to fly yet He Like lifts the truck up and then stabs the log through from the bottom It's a weird one and no matter how he does it he can like make a shit ton of noise He can like jump up pretty high, right? Yeah, so maybe I It's just I think when we were watching this live and we we did our e-fap movies for it. We were Explaining some of the things that would have been much better for the film if he would have done instead Um, not difficult to come up with some things in that regard. It's uh And here's think this is this is where you could show so you have the clothes thing Let's have a superman who's It's a good guy, but he's not great. No, he's a good guy. He'll he'll steal clothes He'll you know do little things Maybe he'll you know, if someone drops a $20 bill is like, hey, maybe I just take that 20 for myself You know since they don't notice it little things But the big stuff like when he's going to this route, he's like, uh, that's a bit too far Like you you see he's got a line, you know, he's not a saint But he's got a line that you can explore during this Fucking 17 hour opening for this film. You got plenty of time clearly For as much I guess that's the thing too for how much time they put into this aspect of the movie worrying Are you seeing that they would expect to get a really super well developed? Uh character after all this time you spend with him, but it's just it's just a mess This is pretty fucking sinister I like the word sinister actually, uh, it's very you look at it. You're like It's a good way to describe it. Yeah, what is what are the implications of this? Yeah In pain ways like this if you thought this was a dick move, that's because it was again. No, no, no, you I mean, it's a dick. It's a dick move. Plus. Yeah, this is dick move double plus. Yeah, this is dick move plus Dick dick move dick move is tripping a person that's about to walk past you Well spitting in this way above that. I like the idea that if you put a bomb onto someone's car blow it up It's like, yeah, dick move Owl sweats a bit of a dick move Yeah, he's not addressed the important part which is like you understand the mechanics of this like he went out This was after the the confrontation was over. He went out there and he meticulously He was very angry. Yeah Yeah, no one else noticed none of that because What we would want to see is something like He clenches his fist after this guy does what he does and then the first releases And then he turns around and walks away. Maybe he smiles. Yeah, maybe smiles. Pats him on the shoulder We know that he wanted maybe gently pushes him back onto his seat Nice thing about Rip the driver door out of the the truck and then rip the steering wheel out Nah, I wouldn't do that again. Yeah, I wouldn't that's still too far Yeah, I mean, it's not as far as what he did to the guy's truck. I mean, it's it's better Again, but this this is a key element here And I think um cap went over it with when he was talking about like the keying of the car If he just walked outside and punctured his four tires for like this Let's just say he has a car. Um, I would still be like, oh That's I don't know it doesn't feel right like in terms of response It feels much more appropriate to have um had a good line of dialogue to respond with or to show Like, you know, the guy pushes him and he falls back. He's not clever Yeah, like Superman It's not like he's a dweeb or a loser who's getting back in the way that he can You know where you're like, ah, hey the little guy he got back at him in that way He can't face him head on in strength But he could you know be guileful and clever and he could do underhanded stuff behind the other guy's back to get back At him, you know, but Superman is Superman He feels weird. He's yeah Uh, I don't know how to explain it, but I would prefer to see him be the bigger man It's just a dude that's sexually harassing a waitress like just dragging out of the restaurant Which yeah, you could do that which you could do easily without even hurting him effortlessly Without hurting him Yeah, grab him by his shirt and just That's the thing that could be the comedy part of it where it's so effortless for Clark to do this And the guy is struggling and he can't like he everyone's kind of like what the fuck this dude is strong as And Clark is just gently taking him outside and just letting go once he's out the door And if sack is desperate to see this man suffer It's like what if you have him as like, uh, I'm such a fucking strong dude And you're such a pathetic dude goes to a headbutt him or something and he knocks himself out and falls over Now Yeah, dude, it's so easy I often say writing is tough not all of it Do a little every part cut cut to a little reaction shot from Clark where he just uh, kind of like yeah, that just happened Yeah Or maybe if you want to make him smarmy Such a good guy that he picks the guy up and puts him back in his seat. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think that would be cute God, it's not hard. It's not hard to just write a nice guy It's easy to write likeable people because we know what kind of people we like Yeah, just write somebody you'd like to hang out like it's sort of his self-explanatory Like how do I make someone likeable? Well, what would you like them to do? Because what what we're doing right now is like like a boardroom for writing scenes and stuff You just have Zach is with us. He's like, I like your ideas guys. I do I do What if we have it so that he just leaves the room and everyone's like, oh, you know, he's not going to do anything about it Okay, but later we reveal he's impaled his truck onto several logs Like Zach, are you high? Well, we would all be like, what's the punch line? What's happening here? What is the punch line? What you mean for real? The punch line is that he's Jesus Oh, that all makes sense And if he was like, well, it's to show that he's flawed. I'd be like, dude, we can find ways He can be flawed without being villainous. Yes I like the idea of just you're not flawed until you're like a borderline criminal Well, actually, no, this is well with this guy. Yeah, I mean with Zach and with all the other dce stuff I mean with a lot of writing these days They're like I said, there's a super skewed sense of morality that's for whatever reason We're okay with our heroes doing obviously villainous things for whatever reason I think like stealing the the clothes that's enough to show that he's flawed without him being villainous Yeah, that's okay. Like I'm cool with that but puncturing someone's car because they're a dick like And it's not even stealing the clothes. It's how he steals the clothes. Does he do it? Like, oh, thank god. I found some clothes for me to wear or you know, he looks at the clothes looks at the house He could see on his face Sinister Clark Kent doesn't exact revenge on people in petty ways like this If you thought this was a dick, Clark does that's because it was again Isn't the perfect suit man who makes all the right choices all the time the suit man I hate that we're not asking for perfection. Stop. I hate it when people do this They go to that was a mistake like it was a It was a simple mistake that he punched That is a fallacy, right? I can't remember if it has a name But just where you Try and defend it from like an appeal to just the absurd position of the opponent With Dr. Dio ad absurdum. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, just stop it. That's not that's reducing That's reducing an argument to a um like an extreme Like an absurd aspect of what it would be Where I would say this is Yeah, it's like you take the You take a complete opposite Extreme to try and make yours look better. Yeah. Well, it's like a straw man. Basically. It's like, oh, you you don't want Superman to Impale this guy's truck with logs. So you just expect him to be, you know Pure and innocent all the time That's right. It's kind of yeah, it's like adjacent to a straw man. It's like it's almost like a type of straw man Mm-hmm Yeah, of course Because because the best faith interpretation of what they just said is oh I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that I want him to be perfect Not at all In fact, and then you clarify and then they're stuck because they can no longer misrepresent the opposition Yeah, that's like the idea that they're on he was this is temper when his mother's To uh, I his counter to you I don't want Superman to just impale this dude's truck full of logs is oh, so you expect him to be perfect like you could Hey, I don't want my protagonist in this video game that would be stuck playing for 10 hours I don't want to be introduced to them torturing someone and killing them right in front of their family members Oh, so you just like you just expect them to be perfect then No listening is it it's just like Do whatever they want with your argument instead of addressing it properly Like yeah, you were just you were just waiting for your chance to talk, weren't you? Yeah Again, this isn't the perfect superman who makes all the right choices all the time This superman makes mistakes in this case. He stole some clothes mistake I would also be curious at what like like that's not a mistake. What does he have to do for you to say? Oh, you know what this is actually over the line. This is not someone. I can just call a mistake Yeah, I actually would like to see a version of this movie where This really was a mistake like superman's sort of like a superpowered mr. Bean and everywhere that he goes he just causes calamities Yeah, mr. Bean had a good hot Yeah, but like he still ends up with like trucks being in You know impaled by mr. Bean's hilarity with him doing things and not knowing it. Yeah Truck later on this temper when his mother is threatened and crashes through a factory and gas station This is all part of the learning experience. Oh, no, no, you didn't oh, no What you've just suggested so I've never I've never crashed through a building Yeah, what do you suggest never? I don't have that experience Superman was unaware that if you crash someone through an i-hop There may be people in it Like no, he knew this this is something he knew he better know what buildings are and you're like, oh, okay Well, my argument is that he's just being a tad irrational right now because he's angry and he has to learn from that It's like, oh, well your argument doesn't that's not something you like Next time he's angry he could do this again is what you're saying Yeah, the best thing that you could say is he wasn't thinking because he was angry, but that is not a justification That's an also makes him fucking horrible Like all these like you can't control your anger. That's kind of part of being an adult is having control Categorize villains. We gotta be really careful here. Like no, it's fine. The Superman killed all these people He was angry. What the fuck dude Mm-hmm What do you what do you think what do you think zah is doing at the end? He's angry. So he wants to kill a bunch of innocent people Good man is he's doing out of spite. It's angry about his mom. So you kill a bunch of people. It's fine It's a mistake. I don't know my client was angry The laziest thing that you can do is compare Superman to Jesus I think the laziest shit that you can do with this character is compare him I don't know if I categorize it as lazy as um Because because you'd have to appeal to what he's trying to achieve and he's done it on lazy To me he's just cringe. He's not doing anything But cringe. Yeah I'd say uninspired Yeah, yeah, well isn't being uninspired sort of lazy Kind of it's settling for something that is like intellectually lazy. Well, then I don't know if it's uninspired Because I just don't think he was capable of doing anything much more Interesting than that. There's a meaningful difference between uninspired and lazy though Because um, I don't know if I wanted to make like a stacked house of cards Someone could be like, wow, you're not really the first person to do that. I'd be like, yeah, well, it was really hard And I was really proud of doing I guess it's because I guess one of those involves like some level of effort in actually doing Well, I yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't I wouldn't compare One is simple house of cards to as actually as it is Yeah Well, you could I say one is more Like it's about dexterity and I guess I'm trying to think how to phrase it like it's Like building a house of cards alone Which is difficult Like you have to be very careful Of something that is is very easy to do and something that everybody's already just like Signed off on like in terms of just uh, we'll sign it out of actually Oh, yeah, I guess it's about the amount of passion you have for something like if you don't even care then If like if someone is doing something they don't care about but they have to do it Or they're just doing it idly out of boredom or something. You don't expect them to really put a lot of effort into it But if you're the director of a film and you have all this time and cajillions of dollars and all the help in the world You sort of like it should be on the next level Um, yeah, like I said, I'm not sure how I categorize it. I have court I don't even know that I would um put it in my analysis for issues. I take with the film It's just something we all see, you know, he's comparing Superman to gibas And and it's it's it's grown worthy So, yeah, I think it's because of how overt it is He has such little faith in the audience to see what he's trying to go for maybe Yes, like he doesn't have a lot of he doesn't seem to have a lot of Ironically, both seems to both have a lot of confidence in his product But not a lot of confidence in people to pick up the message Or is the overtness of it part of the style? What do you say that with the previous video being like, you know what? I'm not going to defend this movie It speaks for itself I'm so In what a world And that's all Zach Snyder does do you get it guys? What is this remind? Um All Zach Snyder does like I'm not defending Zach Snyder when I say no, he does lots of other things too Yeah, he does other things. Unfortunately. There's not even There's too many Superman Jesus references, but there's not that many of them Yeah, it's just the ones we get are not like this Subtle yeah, like this and the stained glass and the imagery from below it's like it's been very Uh Yeah Oh appeal to the comics cool The jesus throughout his whole existence because he's always been portrayed as a powerful godlike being so this is where the effort point comes in, doesn't it? Yeah And this is where the creativity and talent comes in Feels to strive towards and in many comics throughout his existence. He's been compared to jesus or presumed as like a Messiah figure This is nothing new to the character in man is still is literally just two scenes where the symbolism is mainly obvious And that's all Zach Snyder does. Come on. Next we're gonna talk about his parents mainly Jonathan Marcus feels that he was mishandled in this movie and in this movie his dad is that's an understatement Yeah, you could say mishandled. Yeah That's one way of saying Cosmo would have to do something really really stupid for us to be against him on this point If he argues it by the reason why we could find a way If if he says the reason that jonathan kent is bad in this film is that he's not like the comics if that's the argument He makes I'm gonna be very upset Is so fucking obsessed with clark hiding his identity that he dies for it No stop Do not save my life um I am okay with that. That's not. Oh, he kind of fucked it up. Well, it's not all that he said so far Uh, yeah, but it's also not the whole picture of why that's all stupid. Um Can it be strained out that jonathan kent is stupid to say don't save me. You need to protect your identity It's not stupid I think because the criticism must be categorized differently because that is his character and that's what we're criticizing rather than yeah, that's what he values What do you actually think for summaries? Yeah, that that is that he's acting earnestly on a very strange belief that he has that isn't justified by the writing Well, definitely not where I would have gone for my uh kent assassination clip, but It it it helps Um, well, it's something if we makes him a bizarre character or a refresh and ignoring the comics I would just be like this guy is telling his son that he shouldn't be saving people's lives with the immense power He has because maybe somebody might start looking into things and things could go bad Which is fucking insane And it like it's we always like to to appeal to how good the advice uncle ben gives But it's not just because like that's particularly well, right? It's just like no, it's just really fucking solid Good advice. Yeah, like it transcends the the the material. It's just good life real life advice Imagine someone telling you you shouldn't necessarily act for someone else's benefit if it might cost you something Like what what are you what? How do I even extrapolate this into life versus if you have the power to help people you should Yeah, sometimes it's good to sacrifice a bit if you know, it can help other people It makes it that would create a better world if we all were kind of willing to do that Don't be too selfish Yeah, be willing to help people even at some personal loss sometimes and so you might be thinking well, wait Did you just help people all the time constantly and you know like I would say the spider-man stories try to deal with The more specifics of the statement Meanwhile with with jonathan you're like wait should you I don't know for instance led a bunch of kids drown Just to protect your identity and he says maybe Like he says maybe well, that's an obvious like you save the kids like this is the softball This is one of those hypotheticals you get and you're like, oh, yeah Like like a lead-up question So I would argue he's a horrible person and then if someone was like, what do you think of him as an adaptation? I'd be like, are you fucking kidding me as an adaptation? I don't even want to begin A core value of jonathan and martha kent is that they encourage clark to use his powers to help people But in this movie jonathan kent tells clark that he should have let children die as opposed to revealing his powers What was I supposed to do Just let him die Maybe what the fuck Yep, that's one correct thing. You did it. You managed to do it. You got it. He's a secret because he knows how people I'm sorry. Yeah, so this guy's defending this. So this is an automatic loss So jonathan kent is determined to keep clark's abilities a secret because he knows how people would react that they knew the truth And he didn't want him to face. What do you mean? No, what do you mean by that? What do you mean he believes a certain thing what even though like I don't understand this at all I don't even know if we've unpacked this before but like if I could just sit down with jonathan What do you think's gonna happen and he says, you know Are they gonna kidnap you and they're gonna stab you with scalpel and rip you apart and see how you tick like Oh Well, I mean i'm probably still gonna save people Can I mention can I even do that? I don't even think they can I don't even think they could that's the thing like his super resilience. It sort of gives him a position where He's not like in danger from anyone even being able to hurt him on this planet Because people like to say I guys have to come from the outside the planet to people like to say jonathan's right Like they like to say about bvsc jonathan was right because the world hates superman in that movie That's what we're talking about used to let people die exactly. It's like what do you what do you think you're saying jonathan was right? Let the people drown like Yeah, basically only do the right thing if it earns you the approval of others, which is not a good moral It's like it's surprising how much in opposition it is to spider-man Spider-man is hated by the daily viewable. It's like well, you should probably stop Spider-man hopefully has repercussions because of trying to help people But he keeps doing it because that's what heroes because with great power comes great response Dude, jonathan can't's a horrible person. I'm sorry. He's a piece of shit. I'm glad he's dead Well, no like imagine if he would have kept going on to influence superman, maybe we avoided horrific cataclysm because he died when he did Like the whole reason that superman's generally portrayed as a really good person is because he had really good parents Who taught him good values? And if there was a can I just mention that Just just to add on to the rights So if it was a tv and he's watching it with clock when he was like the age we see him in the film And it shows zods invasion or whatever that he's just like no son. No the government will take care Don't reveal your right Well, yeah, what would nobody say then I don't know Can I just mention that uh with wonder woman 1984 out now and we've seen how people react to Wonder woman going around and saving people that this scene's completely fucked and this scene definitely takes place after 1984 True jonathan can't should have to rationalize that when he was what fucking Was it around this like it was like 10 years how long ago would it have been? This so if if jonathan can't where it's born in 1980 it was 33 years old in 2013 Which I think we can reasonably assume was when that happened. This is like he looks like he's 10 maybe 12 13 yeah the mid 90s. It's been about 10 years since wonder woman projected A person flew Out into yeah a person who's bulletproof super strong and beloved by everybody. It's like Mmm, and I'm gonna I'm gonna be fair. I'm gonna be fair to Zach Snyder here wonder woman Yeah, I wasn't in his mind. Yeah, but But at the same time it just goes to show how the dc So poorly plotted out in canon with uh Man, yeah, at least according to jankins the best thing You when you're going through in chronological order like we are right now with all the context that we have is like man This scene makes no fucking sense whatsoever universe has just hit the fucking restart button already just mcu fanboys you failed time to try again Yes mcu fanboys who for the last three or four streams have spent like several hours shitting on all the vision We also will be through that paddle of mcu movies. How many did I say were bad rather than good? The plot one it was it's more than half more than half. Yeah Oh, there is There was that one dude that was like well. Yeah, of course I think you guys are mcu fanboys. I mean you show the light. Okay everything that's got a red line through it Is a four out of ten or lower. That's most of the mcu It's annoying because we shit on the mcu quite a bit The mcu just it we know it can hit those really high. It has peaks. Yeah, it has them It has the potential to get there. Maybe not any more But it has done it I'm pretty sure my most isn't my most popular video is you see the captain model of tross, so Yeah, either my second or first most popular video is shitting on a marvel Film, so I don't know. I guess the problem is like captain marvel has certain political baggage. Unfortunately, it doesn't count So like Wow, it's just that's usually that's usually why I'd like to just default to iron man three because it's it's like This is politically uncontroversial terrible movie. Well, yes, but it's just bad. It's like mendo. It's just bad The worthwhile thing to say though is that I don't mention any of that in my video It's no, I know I know it doesn't matter because people will be like, oh, of course, you don't like captain marvel What do you think happened with your black panther video? Black panther stupid. Wow. You hate black people. Wow. You hate black people captain mark. Wow and women too Oh, does he ever shout on a film that has a white protagonist? Ever Which by the way, it turns out he's writing pvs It turns out he's right. No, he's not. Holy fucking shit. There's some protesters outside of the capital But when he dies, he gets a fucking state-sponsored funeral and the whole world is plunged into hopelessness Let us dispel this fucking insanity that jonathan kent was right. No, he wasn't he was never right and he never will be He wasn't He's a fucking never tell your kids this never tell anybody this never Give them the idea at this impressionable age from someone that they respect That they should let a busload of children die. Why do we have to say this identity? Yeah, jonathan kent had his chance. Why is this something we have to say on ifa? What the fuck happened? What was wrong with the world if This is like the litmus test for are you a bad person? You failed You you fucked up Tark's ability is a secret because he knows how people would react if they knew the truth and he didn't want to Realize what you're saying by the way how people would react not specifically They would kill you they would kill your family how people they would be annoyed at you I don't fucking care if they're annoyed at me for saving a bus full of children The fuck I don't even know what informs this this belief of his I'm pretty sure that someone if someone sees you save a bus full of children. You're like, holy shit. Thank you What a hero this guy awesome He didn't want recognition for it Yeah, he seems being very selfless. He he's you know putting himself in harm's way. Maybe that's why I'm glad he's on my team I I want I want to keep encouraging him to keep using his powers to save people Yes, yes, I wouldn't be like fuck this guy. I hate kids. I wish those kids had fucking drowned Fuck them kids. I wish his dad would have told him to let those kids drown. I just don't get it Just don't get it. You're so desperate to defend this shitty movie We haven't even gotten to bbs yet Oh my god, you're right He didn't want him to face the consequences until he was ready, which by the way, it turns out he's right in bbs With how the world reacts to his existence. That's why he did what he should have said son No matter what happens. No matter what the world says about you your mother and I we've got your back We're here for you. We're gonna be by your side the whole way You have friends and family who are here to care about you and that's what's important Fuck that What happened to good values strangers might not like you Oh And to save him in front of those people he wants clark to show himself to the world when he's good and ready Now it's for letting the kid when he's good and ready. He's the one who's telling him to stop doing He was already doing it point of If you're a father and you have a son well if you if you're a father and you have a son, right? One of your responsibilities is to prepare your kid for the world. That's one of your job As a parent that's not something like oh, you know that maybe you could like take a proactive role In preparing this super powered kid of yours To you know deal with this sort of thing Maybe you would see it not only as a responsibility to your kid But as a responsibility to the world that he's going to grow up in knowing his power that you You have very influential over this character. You should use that for good He also just said that he's he's telling him he needs to do it when he's good and ready It's like he's already doing it. He believes he's ready To save people's lives even at the cost of his identity. It's like no, you're just they're heckling him when he saves children's lives What a fucking great person you are It's his drown. He'd say yes. He says maybe because he doesn't know the answer. He doesn't want clark to face No, that's the problem. You should know the answer and you don't know the answer Wasn't that like if I ask someone if I if I ask if someone asks me is 2 plus 2 4 and I say maybe Like I've already messed up because the answer is yes And if I don't know the answer that's pretty damning Again twin perfect used this defense in his video, didn't he Everyone does it's the the jonathan kent was right and jonathan kent was simply saying be careful clark But they never go further and they never really explain what they mean by any of this careful and also yes save the children It's fucking insane. This is look zaks not a fucked up. He fucked up big time. Would he made this happen? I would have been like, you know what if you really are concerned about your identity I don't know like keep a mask with you. I guess but just save the children save the yeah That's a a plus that one right there. That's a good one Save the kids people like pete's mother who's all enough and ready because he knows he's gonna change everything when people realize What he can do he fucking cares Change everything. Jesus. If you know, he's gonna change everything then you have a responsibility to give him Not shitty advice like this. You don't change everything letting bust full of children die on the regular Probably that change that would change a lot of if each one of those kids has two parents on average then Fuck me. Yep. That would be a lot of lives Hmm. I actually have a question so um Clark was on that bus when it fell into the river and so If he let those kids die And he was the only survivor Huh, that would be rough to live with wouldn't it be like how'd you escape? Survivors guilt. Oh, yeah, you're right not vivors guilt for a kid like that You've got survivors guilt. You've got with someone's head. The parents will resign back. How did you You didn't save anybody. How did you get out of the bus and no one else did? Yep It'll be like whatever you did to escape. How come you couldn't take anyone with not a scratch He wouldn't have a scratch on him Yeah, he would literally be like david dun and unbreakable. Yeah, it would be very weird People would raise a lot of eyebrows about it Hmm film doesn't think I think you're a retard Jonathan Kent. Yes agreed He doesn't want him to go through that until he's old enough and more importantly when Clark chooses to do it A big theme throughout the whole he did choose to do it encourage him to do it sooner Encourage him to do it way sooner as soon as you can also did choose to save those children He also was going to save his dad, but his dad was like no, son. Do not do that You're not ready. At what point will you be ready? He's like an adult at that point People always refer to that scene as Jonathan expressing that Clark is like It's it's too early for you to make your choice You know, and it's like that's such a strange thing. That's my choice. Yeah, it's surely it's his choice whether or not He's going to say Terrible terrible terrible Oh krypton every cartoni is bred for a purpose and they have no freedom of choice Superman's parents But whatever that's not even yeah the fact that zod has so many different ways of doing the things that he wants to do and reasoning I don't actually but you know when krypton would be terraformed all of humanity's wiped out whatever kryptonians are starting back up What does zod do? Do you just keep punching things? He has to actually just conform to society that doesn't have war sometimes So this whole idea that he never gets to do anything that he wants to he's got no free will in the sense that they're describing it It's so fucking juvenile It is juvenile. Yeah, I get so soldiers 99.999 of their lives They're not like in combat situations shooting at people and getting shot at you know They're they're they're hurry. They're hurrying up and waiting You know sitting around doing stuff training Stuff living life Special that krypton has lost So when the world was ending they sent away their only son with a dna ever kryptonian so that he can forge his own destiny And then on earth jota k was a key part secret We've been over this so many times the whole forge your own destiny make your own choice and then he ends up fucking Bliterating kryptonians forever his dad's very like His the hologram dad was like, oh fuck jesus christ is not what I meant. Oh, I should have been more specific He's gonna be injustice like apparently rustle crow. Uh, he's gonna well This is a sniper cut. Sorry. I wonder if anyone's gonna tell him once they because he got deleted remember from the ship So theory up. Oh, what happens son? He's like, oh We won Yeah, we did it. We did it. We won we won the battle. We did it. Hooray. We saved Have you picked out a beautiful kryptonian bride yet to restart our species How's the whole bridge between people Yay, yeah Like gagging mule corpse of a baby on the floor. He's like, oh, fuck. Uh, let's kick that under the table Let's go celebrate in the embryo chamber as is customary on krypton Look dad, I need to I made my own choice and he's like, what the fuck clark You weren't supposed to make your own fucking choice. You're supposed to make my choice in a different voice So he's ready to want to expose himself to the world It's all about what clark wants and that's gonna do it for the bulk of his main criticisms He also wasn't a fan of lois lane, but I enjoy her but I understand most of his points there I would love to hear why you enjoy it. I'm legitimately curious there. Dude. That was a weird sentence He was like she he complains about her. I like it, but I agree with the points But he had but several times. Let me just play that again. It was a weird one Rollercoaster of a sentence a ketoner so that he can forge his own destiny and then on earth Jonathan Kent wants to keep clark's secret until he's ready and chooses one to expose himself to the world It's all about what clark wants and that's gonna do it for the bulk of his main criticisms He also wasn't a fan of lois lane, but I enjoy her but I understand most of his points there Do you know what I mean? I enjoy him. I understand most of his points. Yeah All right. Well, I mean that's not necessarily contradictory. It's just a strange sentence I do like seeing her using her reporter skills to track down superman and find out who he is I think it's Yeah, a reporter skills by looking randomly in the direction. It's like, oh, look who's this guy her journalist senses were tingling No, no, no, no, I you guys getting confused because he used the wrong visual What he's referring to is tracking him down When she does remember in the she finds his family and she finds ginger kid That is actually journalism compared to I looked to take a photo of a fucking Iceberg or whatever the hell they're looking at a glacier and and then you happen to snap him walking door Like that shit's not journalism But he used the visual from the scene. Yeah, that just confused you because it was Yeah, obviously. Yeah, uh, good job, I guess But also just highlight how the world's greatest detective should have found out exactly who superman was Uh, if fucking lois lane could do it That's gonna do it for the bulk of his main criticisms He also wasn't a fan of lois lane, but I enjoy her but I understand most of his points there I do like seeing her using her reporter skills to track down superman and find out who he is I think it's the bonus that we have a lois lane is actually smarter than previous versions No, lois lane from the original was a very interesting well fleshed out character who had flaws and bonuses and strengths and ambitions and Oh, she was like a real person. It was so nice. That's not as lois lane drowned herself. Okay. I'll be that small He's gonna do for the main section. Now it's time to talk about batman versus superman sweet Yay, we did it. So he starts off this section talking about this film's version of batman. I'm gonna be I just wanted to say We're never gonna get rid of man of steel. It's gonna haunt us forever The specter of that film is gonna haunt us. I just like that. We've got beef. That movie is there forever That's that's a pig stain on that movie. I would direct anybody who thinks man of steel is good to that video It's it's compact. It's entertaining filled with arguments. Go nuts very well edited. Yeah Now that we actually got to bvs. I'm gonna leave because it's 2 a.m. And I need to work Very well Have to leave you guys now All right I'll see some of you tomorrow Yes Yeah, catch you later guys Bye Yeah, man of steel is like gonna be our mortal blade wound I'm hoping it goes away after this one, but I think it will come back. Yeah Later, but for now, I want to cover things that he gets wrong or just doesn't understand Also, I'm not gonna be addressing most of his nitpicks like these Wait, so you're telling me this guy only just now realized that evacuating is a good idea That's not a nitpick. Not another pick at all. Um Well, I mean if we want to talk about its overall impact, I mean it's super impactful to him Yeah, I was gonna say this is hard to categorize for me because it's valid, which is a category of nitpick But how significant is it? Yeah, if if we're talking about to him, it's incredibly significant. It leads to his death To the overall plot. He's just one of tens of thousands. So I mean Well, either way it ain't looking good. I would argue it definitely impacts You might be able to call this a nitpick, but I don't think it represents this the scope of this criticism properly. Yeah, yeah Yeah, it's it's it's technically a nitpick, I guess, but it's not in spirit a nitpick Considering that uh, Bruce Wayne is partially motivated by The loss of his employees and his employees aren't leaving the building when they Obviously should during this catastrophe in metropolis Yeah, this is not a nitpick. Yeah, I think that that's actually a fair enough argument. Um, Bruce could have been motivated regardless of the people in the building though Uh, yeah, even if this guy had uh survived I think the loss of everybody else would have or the destruction of the building maybe like the little girl that he He meets up with she didn't work for him, you know I'm sorry then if that's the case then why even show Wayne enterprises employees dying in the first place Well, I guess because if you're gonna reacting to to metropolis getting destroyed Without Wayne enterprises being there I guess that's just Extra connection for him finds him further too. Yeah, so Well, then the extra connection is retarded then because they aren't leaving the building. Yeah The extra connection is stupid. Well, yeah, but I agree with you. The extra connection is stupid The extra I guess it's the idea that Like the extra connection can be lost and it's not super consequential Yeah, that's what I would argue if Batman said I only cared because all of my employees died. I'd be like that's weird That'd be weird. I'd be like, yeah, that would be very weird. Yes. Yes. First off That would be something that I would expect from Zach Snider today. Thank god we didn't see it Um, but yeah, I think it's just more icing on a cake that didn't necessarily need it The idea is they want there to be an extra connection the execution. However Kind of overrides what the point of the scene was All right Bro, if I see the alien ship destroying the city two blocks away, my ass is already out the building. Are you a terrorist? I am very glad that cosmonaut variety hour is at least smart enough to put those Lay little pieces of information together and just oh, it's so interesting. Well, this is the best cosmonaut video we've seen So it's not bad. Yeah, I'm I'm glad though because like even with him you wonder about oh, is he gonna fuck this up? You just but it's just pretty good. You this is really bad, but do you know why? Batman v Superman a movie so retarded that not even cosmonaut can fuck up criticizing it Uh, what a what a damning indictment of that question. Anyway, let's not worry about that Let's instead look at one of that is an odd question to ask someone if you're it is You would say someone you know someone consider you a terrorist, but what would you know? Yeah, that would be the way to say to those people. What would you you know? If well, it's shitty dialogue basically. Yeah, and well, I would go for that I would say that it's really fucking stupid that lowest lane experienced journalist would phrase a question that way That was really dumb. Um, however, not very consequential nitpick. Sure. I'm fine with that. Yeah She's done that moving on Funny scenes of them. Why is he crawling on the ceiling like spider man? These are just that Um, that's not even I mean like it's really silly and my criticism is why the fuck didn't he get out of there sooner Like he hung around for ages. He went around to spook the guy for some reason My biggest criticism is this is a this is a scene that belongs in a batman year one Batman's first night kind of yeah Not hey, this is like gotham pd. That's sided with batman that the whole movie is basically establishing. Hey The cops work with batman basically Yes, but batman's here to spook this cop around and this cop gets spooked by him and try shooting him It is said in the scene uh that the the more experienced cop is like what the fuck and then he's like Oh, shit. I didn't realize that was him apparently. It's a rookie cop who's brand new and But the thing is I don't think that makes batman's choices make sense in that scene He should surely be did batman know that well. Yeah, because batman should be standing over the dude And then he looks over at the police and maybe even walks toward them to like talk to them And then you have the rookie cop goes freeze And then batman's like whoa and then maybe uses grapple or does something as a result Yeah, maybe just secure his weapon really quick and then he just calm give it back to him something like that But um, this is a world where the gartham police are very pro batman to the point where they don't talk to journalists about batman or his Antics because they're like no batman. Yeah, I could see how police would be very pro batman. Absolutely Fuck it. I'm actually I'm actually gonna cite the dark knight rises in a positive way For a second here as a point of contrast against this terrible movie when When batman returns uh to Rescue the hostages taken from the Gotham stock exchange and one of the most retarded heists in film history Um in terms of what the goal is and how they execute it Um, there's a couple of cops that we see that are reacting to Batman returning basically one of them shoots at batman and damages this device that he uses to it's like some sort of EMP gun or something But we get a good idea of like that cop being inexperienced and um Like also batman suspected to have killed Uh, hard like murdered harvey dent because you know that was the story after the events of after the events of the dark night so I think that that Makes more sense than what we get in bvs We have more context for that for understanding why the cop shoots at batman why the other cop is like no, no, no Don't do that. Well, yeah, and and just to seal it batman would have Uh, he had the jump on the guy. He would have just stopped him from firing the gun Maybe pushed him over and laughed not quickly hurriedly crawling across the wall to get up the chimney I'd hope he doesn't fucking shoot him or whatever. It's so fucking strange Yeah, very weird very weird It's a real way to no affect anything in the grand scheme of things It could be entertaining and fun to find to make fun of these little things But I don't see most of them really causing an issue Right in the beginning we get a taste of his misunderstanding of scenes. All right Also, can I just say what the fuck is this scene for we don't even know these people Okay, so it's implied that someone is trying to frame Superman and make him look more violent than he is So you asked what the scene is for and who these people are and then a few seconds later You say it's to frame superman. No So he's asking who the cia people are which they are the cia And the people framing superman work for lex They're different people this sequence was Created to frame superman. These people are coming in after that's happened. They don't work for lex It's just a or a Well, this is the thing talk to the fucking anyone who defends this movie like no, everyone's paid off by lex Ha you answered your own question No, no, that was just a failure of comprehension No two different groups of people cia and the lex people You also misunderstood this scene This wasn't to show superman to be more violent than he is This scene was to frame superman by showing that his actions of getting involved caused people in the village to get killed And no, it's all both of those things. No, they say it's explicit. It's both of those things Why they they have all the bin bodies to show that superman did it and then they also go on to say that the Like american forces went on to shoot down a bunch of village people in and around the area The implication being superman getting involved Somehow leads to america deciding to shoot a bunch of people It's weird, but also that superman did all these horrible things to these people Both It's a mess. It's a mess Why would they've been them He is framed by goons by killing everyone and lighting them on fire And then he has this woman lie to the supreme court and say that superman's action is what Yeah, it's a really stupid plan, huh? Because it all falls apart as soon as someone looks into this Yeah, as you think that the central intelligence agency agency would maybe you know see right through this stupid ruse But well conveniently I guess they just don't We have lex luther trying to coerce a congresswoman into giving him access to more kryptonite Even though he already has kryptonite. That's not what he Um He wants to allow him to import it. She denies it. So he has to do it under the black market That's fine with me. So it caused an old it failed on that one. I guess Like, you know, if you elects you want to get it in legally, right? That's preferable Yeah, if yeah, you can do it legally then just do that Then you could have the act then you could bring in people to help you with it if you need it And it won't raise any eyebrows. It'll just life will just be simpler in every way. She says no I think that the Yeah Go ahead. That was it. She says no and so he does it eager legally Okay, um, I think the the real criticism there is the fact that he's asking for unsupervised access to zod's body when he can apparently already get access to zod's body and because we see like video of Them using kryptonite on zod's corpse showing the effects of kryptonite Well, it goes from he can test on it to he gets full ownership of it to do whatever he wants, which is precisely Absolutely, that doesn't stand happening That ain't happening But that's the thing. That's not what cosmonauts said. That's not even steel manable. He's right. He's criticizing him I don't think it's a problem. It's not what he wants. He has the kryptonite What he wants is an import license to bring it in legally He could smuggle it in which is what he ends up doing But what he's doing here is using the kryptonite as leverage to get what he wants In a previous scene he makes a deal with this military guy to get access to the ship and zod's body In exchange to help weaponize the kryptonite But she ends up putting a slight damper in his plans for not giving him the import license And the current amount he has isn't big enough to weaponize. I know marcus basically said um I don't even know that's true. I don't know how much kryptonite you need to disable superman Um, I mean theoretically you can just tip some bullets in it Well, I was gonna say if you tip a spear and then stab it through to his heart would that kill him So this is the weird thing as long as the tip of the spear is what's penetrating him I I depends. Is he soft to newy gooey on the inside or I presume so? I assume not. Well, no, but this is not because he has blunt a resistance to blunt trauma to extreme degrees I presume I presume it seems to destroy I presume so because he's stabbed by um bone when he's He's stabbed by bone because of kryptonite kryptonite makes him able to be stabbed by other things apparently So this is but that destroys his cells Sure, so kryptonite like that's what it does right it destroys the cells So even if it's on the surface just no matter what it touches it just Yeah, that's what i'm saying like so That would work then Well, like okay, so yeah getting so Getting stabbed by kryptonite would certainly Fuck him up and kill him being near kryptonite like the the spear weakens superman just holding it So yeah, I assume that if he can inhale gas Which is right just particles in the air and it does that to him It's actually it essentially makes a mortal hercules style Then and you would be able to Stab it like put a tip of a spear inside of him and as long as that things spear tips in him I think the film doesn't quite stay consistent on just how because the thing is thinking about it. It's like what? Is I'm thinking like if you had the kryptonite next to him Could you stab him with a normal knife and how sharp and how heavy and how what it would have to be made Of to be able to go through him because bone can go through him But like at the same time he's tossed what like 30 floors or something and he goes Ow It's like I should probably kill you mate. Like if you're if you're in you know, human weaknesses. We can say more So here's like he wouldn't have said ow before I guess but now he is saying ow. So that's progress of a kind Well, the only the only other Like his body's telling him that something is wrong where it wouldn't have normally done that He just thinks it's more than that The interesting thing here is that the Yeah, and this is how superman reacts to this little tiny chip of kryptonite in a bag Like just being around that much kryptonite. That's the thing is my only uh other familiarity with with the superman media Is this essentially? And so it's like well, I don't know if that applies to this version, but Yeah, I mean the ultimate question is what I can do with that little bit of kryptonite that he chops the the Fingerprints of of thought off with if you put that next to superman does he fall over? He's like, ah, would you need it to be a certain amount? I don't know Yeah, I guess we'll never know but you'd think lex would want to try it out maybe That is that but I want to explain it because in a bit He's gonna forget that this conversation between them even happened See the weird thing is in this movie both batman and lex luthor want to defeat superman It would make sense to me if zucker lex or bruce approached the other person and was like hey We don't like superman. Let's fucking kill him Um, I don't think batman likes lex luthor does he like he thinks he's a I don't know if they even I mean Yeah, does lex know that that would be the case. So why wouldn't lex go to bruce? Especially if lex knew that bruce wane was batman um So I don't they have like a like or dislike relationship at this point So because we can go earlier than this but certainly pass that if the stakes were this high This is where I'm not sure I'm of two minds about this because like we got He's connected the white russian Shit to uh to to lex and he's willing to break into his house and steal his shit White portuguese, right White russian is a drink uh the so so there's definitely like he doesn't think that lex is up to all Good like he's got issues, but prior to that. Does he have any issue with lexic? I don't really know I don't know. What is lex corp's reputation in this world? Well, does he know that the white italian is supposed to be because of lex wanting the kryptonite for that purpose? Well, it wouldn't matter right because if he finds out you can just go back further than that You can rewind like the timeline. You could argue. Why didn't he go to him even earlier than that? Before finding that out, um, we don't know what batman thinks about lex corp or lex luthor in this universe prior to the white portuguese stuff Because we're never really shown I guess we could infer that he must not like lex. He must think lex is a bad man and he would never team up with him Do I got nothing? Maybe Well, I'm glad the film makes it clear Yeah Also wants batman and superman to fight each other you may ask Well, I can't tell you because I don't know Why would bruce weighing want to work with lex luthor? It's made very clear in the movie that he's untrusting due to losing people close to him and seeing good people turn bad Whoa So why so why does he trust alfred? I was about to say what the fuck are you arguing that he would never trust anybody ever? What do you mean? Why doesn't he trust the justice league? Doesn't he well, that's after this movie to be fair, um Doesn't he still have a working relationship with jim gordon? Seemingly but I don't believe for a second that batman's this fucking insane now It's like I can't trust anyone So what if it means stopping what you consider to be the greatest threat to humanity man? Yeah I mean you said if it's just a one percent chance, then we have to do everything to stop him He's like, oh lex luth. No, I don't agree that Yeah, I don't buy this 20 years in gotham after we've seen what promises are worth. I mean good guy. You're still here You know lex luther doesn't have to be good. You just have to work with him because yeah, this doesn't this isn't it This is bad. It's not like you're starting a lifelong friendship or you're inviting Bruce would rather steal it and keep it for himself instead of having to end up in the wrong hands Also, well, no, why doesn't lex just well? Why doesn't lex just threaten to reveal his identity if he doesn't help him kill superman? and also, uh cousin was point was not that like The kryptonite even as far as I interpreted what he was saying. It was just like you could team up in general Combine your forces. You're both very rich. You both have a concern about superman Like the access to I don't know like this. There is something there and I think the film will probably should have addressed Addressed it prior to the uh, the white portuguese stuff because at least then you can interpret Oh, he thinks that lex is a bad man, but he Not really though because he's trying to get kryptonite You know that doesn't make him a bad person you'd have to because i mean bruce wants kryptonite, you know Hmm, this is what I mean. No, this is really explored and the only argument the people who defend this movie have is batman doesn't trust eddy one Okay That's a really good argument Nice cop out there. Yeah No, that lex knows that he's batman pretty certain he would want to keep that a secret So asking lex luther about kryptonite wanted you you can be interested in stopping superman without being batman You could you could breathe bruce and be like this this super being that destroyed your city That is right next to my city by the way To extremely influential Important billionaire types have a vested interest in the same individual for the same reasons You could go as far as saying like yeah the economy they get interested for that alone Yeah, if like if metropolis gets destroyed not that that would ever happen But like that would that would raise some serious issues for both companies But if batman was never a thing and bruce wane was just a billionaire philanthropist They would still have a reason to do this Yep, you the idea that he's like this is a super being destroying our cities We should do something about him and then lex goes you batman You're like what? It's batman. I don't know why you just super batman. Okay When a team up wouldn't be a good way man movie This is the same guy. I would argue it is not Oh boy Good way to keep that secret Especially since bruce had to steal the information to find out what the white portuguese is and what it's carrying Not a great plan. Now doesn't yeah, that's that that's not a good point Yeah, especially because if he discovered why he was keeping it a secret and how high the stakes were he would understand Why lex is specifically arguably help him lex is actually doing this because he's worried about superman Like that's precisely the same motivation for batman Where lex starts is understandable where he fucking ends up is crazy land Yeah, and that hasn't happened yet. So you can't even appeal to that it's sanity, but I agreed obviously Now lex wants batman to fight superman because he wants to accomplish two things expose superman's a fraud and kill So that wouldn't do that Expose him as a fraud and kill him He's gonna do the stupid shit the twin remember this this video was made post twin perfects insane Rationalization for lex's plan which this guy is totally gonna crib off if you will So I can believe it lex wants to either kill superman or ruin superman's reputation And so he's just gonna argue that every single result gets you that which by the way people have made memes about that Image and I look forward showing them on the next meme fab. They're funny, but um No, no great memes that we haven't seen yet Twin perfect is the kind of person that says like no matter what lex wins and where the kind of people It's like no matter what lex fucks up like every single end to his plan is a fuck-up The primary one being superman can no longer defend earth from the horrible things that might come including and not limited to zod man All powerful He cannot be all good and if he is all good And he cannot be all yeah, but if he's pretty good, you know, it's all right Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know they like to play this clip. This is like it doesn't really rationalize why you would kill super bad at all sorry You want a day, but person who's all good And neither can you be they need to see the fraud you are He spends time pushing batman into one to kill superman because he knows he has the best chance especially No So what would be the best way to kill superman? It's like you just need a Kryptonite knife and you need to draw him into a room There's no reason why batman would be any better for that than literally just you lex I like the idea that batman's armor suit makes it so that he's much better equipped when superman can literally rip it in half If you wanted to the kryptonite is what matters Yeah, at this point armor is just uh Especially if I wanted it you'd be dead already Thank you superman The kryptonite that he wants bruce to steal and it was shown in the email that bruce into diana That he was looking into other powerful beings could have been possibly that he's gonna have to kill all them too, I guess Because lex doesn't make any sense in this movie You pretty Imagine being worried about the power of superman and you also found a guy who can run at the speed of light Like oh And a woman who is fast as faster than bullets And like all the uh and what in whatever crazy shit cyborg is capable of That he was looking into one of them to kill superman But batman is right across the harbor in gotham city and has already been growing increasingly violent over the years So it would be easy to sway him into wanting to kill superman by framing him with the incident in the desert No, none of this. No The capital building and sending him notes to further fuel his rage No, you just say hey batman you and I went to do the same thing It's funny to me because people like this will you don't even have to go to batman You could just send an email to bruce wane because you're lex luther and you could do that kind of thing And say hey, so the superman guy you want to like uh If you picture that payoff he's describing right now and that those Like four or five things he named are all the pillars that hold it up And we went through all of them with him and explained how none of them make any fucking sense And so the ultimate payoff is just built on absolutely shaky ground. I still think like he probably resorts to the whole I think you're missing Forests for the point you're misunderstanding Forests for the trees. Yeah You guys are But it did not take much to push him over actually little red notes big bang you let your family die And at the same time he is swaying superman to not like batman Here's another example. Yeah, which like is a genuine question of wait Is batman okay with people getting killed from his brands? We never actually find that out You just you just never have to address it. Uh, but clog of course uses it as a reason to be like I should probably stop this bat guy Um, again, this is like pieces of a story you're in here, but they never come through on any of it Sample of marcus misrepresenting a scene So he hires one of bruce's old employees who lost his legs during the last movie's final battle So that he can sue superman for being evil lex luther then gives that guy a cool robot wheelchair And then he blows it up in the courthouse killing everybody except superman. He's not suing him He's just he said he wants to I think he wants to testify. Yeah Also, I love superman's reaction to witnessing the deaths of everybody in the courthouse Doesn't really seem to mind that much. Oh um He's expressing an emotion. It's just not the one you'd be looking for as an audience member, I think Yeah, like I see like that I It's like what it's supposed to be it should be like eight nine ten what we see is like two or three I'm trying to think of like it's a scale of that emotion. I think if he were like Doing the thousand yard stare. I think that would be better because this one he looks he's kind of like the immediate emotion I get is like Shame that happened. Oh, he just looks around. Someone's gonna have to clean up this mess Yeah, but yeah, he's not like just staring in disbelief Or my criticism isn't that there's no emotion there. It's the I'm not sure it's quite the right one It's a bit of a weird one Not great Of superman's reaction to witnessing the deaths of everybody in the courthouse Doesn't really seem to mind that much. Oh and instead of staying to help the people who have just fucking been bombed He flies away. You don't uh, he is So if I remember he sat someone down and the paramedic is like I need to look after them Can you back up please and then superman's like oh and then leaves So I think if you want to be specific the criticism would be that superman just leaves after a guy tells him to instead of Like making sure there's nothing else Yeah, like this is a active crime scene There's plenty he could probably do there's people he could talk to about what happened. Yeah, what did you see? Was there anything weird? You're the only link to like information in there sort of yeah I mean, yeah, it was televised, but you were physically there looking around He's you are you're our insight into clues. He's depressed. We leaves Like oh man You don't need to be a comic book expert to know that superman would never do that not an appeal. I would need to make Just something he wouldn't do in this film Yes, he did use this guy to blow up the capitol building which was to incite rage and bruce wane and to show the public that's retarded I'm angry because someone else blew up a bunch of people because they don't like superman I'm angry superman was already on the pathway to trying to take down superman Yeah, this wasn't he was already many people argue that this is what tips him over because the next scene is him stealing the kryptonite I don't understand why this tips him over This is some crazy person blowing up people because they don't like superman. What is that? How is that superman's fault? What's he supposed to do? Batman doesn't Rationalize anything. He's just kind of a crazy. This is like like psycho murder man is what a lot of people call him It's just like kind of like he just doesn't really think a lot through which is a little bit of a shame Because batman is typically intelligent, but never mind this iteration is going to be a dumbass Yeah, listen hymns having to hymns being supposed to be intelligent. That's an adaptation argument. Okay. This is a dumbo Surely he'd have to be intelligent in here to do all this stuff and to pull it off Well, I don't think gadgets and the gizmos and the Detective work, I don't know that anyone would actually argue like no, he's he's an imbecile in this universe. You understand Okay, I don't think anyone's arguing that Why you don't need to be a comic book expert to know that superman would never do that Yes, he did use this guy to blow up the Capitol building Which was to incite rage and bruce wane and to show the public that wherever superman goes chaos follows Doesn't that that's not his fault. That's someone else blowing things up. That's their fault What's funny about this is that winter soldier was accused of blowing up the thing It's like, oh, that's really bad that you find out Someone else did it to make winter soldier look bad and that changes the entire story But that is the story in this one Hang on wouldn't batman already be able to grasp us 20 years into his crime fighting career of fighting a bunch of super villains You think someone would have tried to obviously someone's trying to make him look bad This what I mean is so sad like Batman should be the one that sees through this team up with him And then he gets told point blank by superbad lex. He's trying to he's like, I don't care. I will beat you up Yes, mark and while this guy's trying to explain like lex when the fact that he even said that name should be Oh, shit. This might actually be really important. Do you remember how we were lost for so long and probably still are As to why lex blew this place up. It's like everyone else got the point which was to make batman mad at superman We didn't even think that would be a thing Is it like why yeah, why would you blame superman for this? It just doesn't make any sense Look, what if the scene ran out that like alfred is like Good lord, like the the things they'll do to stop him and then batman's like this wasn't him It's nothing to do with him People are trying like like he sees right through he's like like people want to make superman look bad like Like he he pieces it all together and then he's like lex is behind this. Maybe I've Jumped the gun on my hatred and we just watched this and be like oh batman's like doing things He's thinking about stuff So then you just cut to him in his suit going it's asking a lot. That's asking a lot Even though he's not directly responsible for it marcus claims that superman doesn't look upset about it And then he flies away. I don't know what you mean He shakes his head and looks upset with himself because he couldn't stop it and then out. No one sees that he looks weird No one's no one can see that Well, yeah And then outside he can be seen pulling people from the wreckage But then it's told that they got it from there clearly shown that this motherfucker can't possibly know That superman superman being here is only going to be a bad thing at this point like bullshit I'm sorry. I don't really care who you are police Medic fireman whatever if superman's there. I might be like oh, can you hang around by the way? I know it's a bit selfish of me, but because you're fast and indestructible Could you like go and get survivors in there? Search for people. Can you listen for cries of pain? Can you use your x-ray vision to look for people trapped in the rubble? Can you just like keep an eye out? Maybe there might be some extra terrorists hanging out Yeah, what if people are lifting things? Can you help with search for clues? What if someone needs help like one person's got a gurney for one person together into a The hospital thing is like, oh, could you help that person? Could you help that? There's always things that need to be done Hey, could you fly these people to the hospital? Plus just for sheer image purposes Yeah that too Don't you want to look good? And it would be like if you leave people would be like what the fuck he just left It'd be nice for us to see him helping and you have all these people giving him looks And we as the audience are like well, fuck you. He's helping. He's doing everything he can And then maybe if he's helped them a little more Yeah Why why are people people are accepting his help, but they're giving them these weird looks That they don't want his it's only then does he fly away because clearly he isn't now that one specific guy told him to back up That was one dude One specific dude That dude could possibly know I would have liked the help of superman if you said wait you want me to leave and not help in any Circumstance in any way in this whole area. I'm sure the guy would be like, huh? Should I talk to the police? No, it's fine. Just shut off Surely the very least you could offer some bedside manner to the survivors that are being treated. Yeah Can I get you anything? Superman was seen after the explosion comforting survivors and helping to locate new ones and assisting Emergency personnel and you know trying to contain the damage He's currently cooperating with police to gather clues and investigate who's responsible instead. Superman fucks off after explosion Yeah Superman's version of superman sucks And you've got people defending it as well that guy said he doesn't need him to be this Okay All right That that could be out there where yeah after This shot of him bringing someone to the medic he like is checking it on the other survivors. Hey buddy. How you doing? You know Oh, you guys have a good scene too. We're like an injured congressperson is is like helped by superman Yeah, yeah, it's just like, you know Thank you for this and superman's like of course like why would you wouldn't have to thank me for this God, can we just can we just start fresh? Either just like now. I really like the idea of like an actual good superman God the dce eu e fat bark man. Just making me realize that you can really do superman. Well, if you just Well think about it for a second. Have uh, have any of us here watch superman and lois? No I've heard only good things about how that showed a big superman I'm sure it's fucking less miserable than this. Let's just say that Yeah, I just default does he fly away because clearly he isn't wanted Oh and since we have to cram as much shit into this movie as possible wonder woman watches youtube videos of all the other just Yeah, that's pretty that's pretty awkward in the movie members so that we can force some sequels and spin-offs This is in the movie because this is the information that bruce took from lex luther at the same time He got the information about the kryptonite. Yeah Which makes no sense for lex luther to have and to also make these logos for all these different heroes And to have no really shitty defense He also has no concern about uh, two different people getting access to all of his information on his hard drives It's fucking bizarre if you want him to get information so he can steal the kryptonite. That's like one thing Why would you allow him to get access to fucking everything including your information on other meta humans? Why would you want him to know this? Like lex is just super incompetent But then the reasoning ah, he has access to all these people to kill superman if batman or the kryptonite or doomsday fails Like what do you mean? These are all super people does he want doesn't want these people dead too? Like again, that's kicking the can down the road kicking the can all over the place man. Like it's it's well Yeah, it's worse that it's crazy nonsense because lex might be the most confusing villain like in anything ever to to uh recap here cosmonaut raises a criticism of these uh forced cameos to shut out more movies Kind of cynically And uh, this guy's defense was well the movie provides this bullshit justification so we can have these terrible cameos Yeah, yeah Well, it's okay that it is what it is just it's like you don't have to die on every hill Yeah, like like why would you own this you'd be like, yeah, these are blatant trailers Yeah, I'd say yeah, they want to set up their own universe and this is how they're doing that and It's pretty ham-fisted and certain good Yeah, and it's explained fully like if anyone was to watch this a hundred years from now and they might be like Wait, why did they do it this way? It's like, oh well marvel has already got a huge head start on them And so they need to jump start all of their individual movies with a big event movie Oh, that's why this is happening If you guess it is If you cut this scene out of the movie, we would lose nothing of value Yep, once we're off honestly Yeah, because this this part's cringe to everybody. There's laughing at the concept alone is so blatant To introduce and set up future DC movies But it also works into the plot because it shows that Lex was looking into other superpower beings He seems a bit confused by Lex Luthor's plan and thinks it's a bit convoluted Mainly doomsday and how he knew Batman wanted to kill Superman Lex Luthor's fucking 4d chess multi-layered plan also involves taking Zod's corpse Mixing it with his dna and creating a monster Yeah, that's stupid That's how he pointed out the bvs efat movies He's phrased it He's phrased it in a way that there's an easy counter that doesn't address the problem at all I guarantee you this guy is gonna say, uh, he knew that from the computer. He wanted to control the monster He knew that from the computer idiots Like no, it's mixing your dna with a dead kryptonian in the blue the arch goo creates a giant mod There's so much to this that's important The fact that he found out from the computer is still actually in question What is what is it that he asked the computer about like can I resurrect this this dead kryptonian? By the way, it's like yes, but he'll turn into a horrible monster. Okay, but what if I give it my blood? It'll be an even more horrible monster. Okay. I'm gonna do that. I don't know why what if I add sugar Did you see the top comment on the the bvs efat movies was I'm sorry. It was the twin perfect one is twin perfect says He will obey lex because he has his blood and then it's like the you know aligned down lex beaten by his own father But also as soon as he's born He tries to punch lex, but also just because it's your blood. Why would that mean he'd do what you say? Well, that was a huge stretch in twin perfect's video even twin perfect knew that when he said it He was like, uh, blood of my blood. That's close enough, right? It's like no Makes no sense And uh, and yeah, uh, nobody has any clue why the fuck lex did this and if you argue Well, he was to kill superman. It's like that's not good enough like not even close Doomsday has kryptonite blood. Wouldn't it listen? I feel like that doesn't even answer my question to kill superman. It's like, okay Again, why would he do this? Well, I guess in some ways you could say it's like fringy has a box of tnt in his house And he's willing to blow it up and kill his whole Area or people in the house and i'm like i'm gonna nuke him to stop him It's like, um, like I feel like that doesn't that's It's some repercussions to your decision there But uh, yeah, if I was successful and my bomb. I don't know. It's just so fucking dumb What are you trying to accomplish? I've said this before but I really don't like when a villain's plan is that he can just anticipate anything Because it comes across as the plan just being fucking dumb. I don't even I don't even know that You can anticipate any like like I don't even know that lex is aware of what his plans are He just seems to be doing things things like he's just done. I just do things You know The great villain What happens if elastigirl doesn't do any of the things that you told her to do I like how everybody just is like, yeah, she's elastigirl um I'm not sure what he means by that what if she doesn't do it because she opposes lex in the whole movie, doesn't she? Yeah, constantly. Well, that's not Yeah, cause we're not Yeah, why can't you just you're on point this time just Come on and do it. Keep it up. How does he has a vendetta against superman? How does he know that he even wants to kill him? Did you fucking ask him? Did you call him on the phone also? How does he know that batman wants to kill superman? That might be a good question. I've not thought about that Yeah, this would play into the whole why wouldn't lex luther because what would lex luther have to just asking bruce wane You know, hey, um, what do you think about the superman guy? Was there anything in the film that implies batman wants to kill superman prior to they fight? To the world. No, I don't think there is I don't think that there actually is. Oh my god. You're right Yeah, that we missed I don't remember there ever being anything. Yeah, let's just that man had explicitly wanted so how could yeah, how could lex have known Lex just assumes the batman wants superman dead. He doesn't yeah for some reason even remember As as this video many others argue batman wasn't really on the trail of destroying superman up until the capital building explosion Yeah, he was just like, you know, it's something we should consider alfred And that was majorly risky In terms of that working that way like how could lex have possibly fucking known any of this and You you could probably be like oh the seamery goes it wasn't hard I sent the messages that said you let your family die I guess that's how lex knows that batman hates super bad Which is incredibly flimsy because it doesn't like yeah because batman should be going this is a crazy person Who's acting incredibly rationally? We had four I think different reasons that that falls apart One being you can't know how bruce is going to react to that information and He could just as likely reject all of him be like, whoa, this is uh Wasn't really superman's fault. So I don't know why again Secondly, like you have to rely on the the guy bouncing the checks back not Contacting or being contacted by bruce at any point Because he didn't write what's on those letters. They literally hand well not literally but they hand wave that away Yeah As just not just just don't worry about it. Yeah, and then the fact that yeah for something Well, as you just said that the team never bring it to bruce for no reason They they highlight an issue, but then they say, yeah, I don't know why I have to look into that bruce asked Why didn't you bring these to me and they're like, I'm sorry, sir. Like Yeah, you're fired. I'm sorry. Yeah Yeah, because there's no you can't even make the excuse of like well bruce is a higher up You know, he doesn't deal with it's like no no no. He's specifically Provided like a trust goes to victims. Yeah, he was very invested in compensating the victims of the things. There's no way he wouldn't None of it works I'm sorry all your components and that's aside from the fact that that's it. That's what lex used. It's like Aha, now I will like in sending those checks for three years Well, that's the thing they didn't even get to they didn't even get to probably wondering Why is this guy not fucking getting the point? I've been sending these checks They only came in they only came in the capital building explosion. So lex was so fucking lucky. What if they got delayed for another two weeks Yeah, what if I was about to say like what if it just didn't line up in terms of timing? What if like batman killed superman much much earlier and like I can't Because this film's getting worse. I can't like fathom. He's like, I'm gonna make Batman hate superman by blowing up the capital and you go. Oh, what's what's the through line? He's like, well, you know batman will see that someone is so hateful towards superman that they're willing to blow up the capital Like why would that make him hate superman? If any batman should be I can't let that hatred consume me. I'm like, what if that becomes me? That's why I don't kill people. Well, but you know What if someone blew up the capital because they hated batman batman? What would you do that and kill yourself? Kill yourself just give it sepicoot None of it. He's like, I don't kill people. Yeah, including myself. Yeah. Yeah And this is the thing lex doesn't have confidence like we as the audience know this is working Lex's only confirmation is the batman steals kryptonite and he's just hoping I guess What if it's to keep it out of lex's hand so that's what alfred assumed It was to destroy the kryptonite. So what if that was why lex's like, oh fuck God this movie like this is what cause we're not talking about is like, oh, he just gets accounts for his plans working no matter what everyone else decides to do I don't know that lex do about any of this. He's just fucking walking through the whole movie and every one of the people who like it have to invent the reasons it makes sense Fucking why would combining your human blood? Why why was that an even in this? Was it was it something to do with religious stuff? Is that is that why? Is that is that why He uses religious talky talky, but because it's blood of my blood at one point Yeah, I don't know if he's just eccentric weirdo who knows quotes from things Because you know That mixing your blood with the corpse of an alien will resurrect it and turn it into a monster Nobody told you that The machine I can tell that I'm probably fine. Yeah, I still think it's absurd, but the issues are great The machine did tell him well, yeah, because this is a program to know what that would do This is the thing there is an issue in the through line and he's just missed where it is It's not that the machine gave him the information It's that the machine had the capacity To give him full control over the ship and thus provide him the information. That's where the problem is Why why is it that somebody Who's just stumbles into the embryo goo room can take full control of the ship. That's insane That seems not Yeah, that's Absolutely broken premise that the plot's running on and so that's what kind of what I mean about like it's like no He found out the machine. It's like, how did he do that? I'm like, oh no Fingerprints. I don't know shut up So a few things the senator doesn't do the things he wants He wants an import license from her and doesn't get it Remember you pointed out that he wanted more kryptonite, but she said yeah, that's so she was pushing back against lex Luther He's against bringing in the kryptonite to use as a weapon He knows mixing his blood with zod will create a monster because there's a scene where he's in the ship and starts to learn As much as he can you use the part of that See, this is what I was talking about because of cosmonauts phrasing. He's lost the argument Against this guy in terms of how he's responding to it, but he's not getting to the important bits I would argue or at least those two like see how the rest go seen in your video The kryptonian archive contains knowledge from a hundred thousand different worlds I just like that that's confirmation of how far the kryptonians got Before they apparently lost their entire civilization Hundreds of thousands of systems is like, yeah, okay I want to see the scene where she says this where she's like if you add your blood it'll make him what Like yeah Why yeah, it's like I mean to fuck it just say the computer's like, uh, that's inconclusive. We have no idea what will happen I can't guarantee what the results are because then we need to I don't know I don't bond with it in a way that we can't anticipate And then it'll last never been done before Then I'll then he'll just just cut away and then come back to him is like So what if I just prick my finger like no, it has to be from the palm of your hand What if I want to use my hand later? That's not reasonable It has been decreed by the council of krypton that none will ever again Yes, yes, I yeah, that doesn't say it can't happen They're saying that they don't want it to happen But like obviously like babies can be made This isn't my interest though. They don't allow that. I would like to discover this as a possibility Fine fine fine, but like there's obvious bigger implications of just how stupid all of this is Hand maybe the cut really hurt Yeah, that's fair enough. I mean if I would have cut myself there Yeah, I might shed a tear too. That looks like a really fucking painful place to cut yourself. You idiot If you listen in the background it doesn't get to the final stage until after the hour he gave superman is up Late late says the white rabbit that is not This comes back to the nuke thing It's not a failsafe for superman to release something that is arguably more powerful than him a nuke irregular nuke generator And something that has no interest in mankind in any way shape or form. How is that a failsafe for superman? that is a That is a That seems like a desperation panic move by a crazy person I can't even if um, you know if Thanos had like wiped out the avengers And uh, he was about to destroy earth and we could release we could create and release doomsday I'd be like holy fuck. This might be something we have to do. I'm not sure And that's actually really interesting by the way as a storyline to have to release a horrifying monster that could turn on you How bad do things have to get It's like in um, do you remember in 300 they have that weird Giant chained up and they release him to fight the the spartans. That's a yeah a weird moment But yeah, there you go release a monster to attack the people you don't like Hey, I know those axonators So if batman kills superman he can just end the process if superman kills, I don't even know that that's He doesn't do anything. Hi, can he I don't know And how does he know that he like In flopsie stuff right there, but it doesn't take away from how fucking stupid it is to release doomsday anyway Batman that he's got doomsday to fall back on and the superman kills lex and doomsday is a ticking time bomb now He doesn't know for sure wait, so So he's saying that if superman had said fuck it my mom's dead anyway I'm gonna lazy you that doomsday will be cooking and will automatically release regardless Like as if lex right gonna just laser the embryo pod and it would have Like yes, but also I'm just like I'm blown away by the fact that lex is like it doesn't matter if I die My crazy mutant monster thing will hopefully arrive and kill you anyway. It's like what the fuck lex What kind of brilliant antagonist What is with you big smarts Just don't understand that batman kills superman Which is why he pushes him into wanting to do it like I said earlier He knows batman is getting more violent. So why not see how far you can push him I said it in the checks. How do you know that that wouldn't make him more violent toward lex rather than superman? What if he was actually intelligent and he figured out what was happening? Yeah, being more violent doesn't mean you're getting stupider None of this in any way has like a through line. It's all just random guess work And it's actually going for things that are less likely. That's the really weird thing He's back with mess and that he was intercepting when he played in the news to make superman look bad Like in the beginning amp blown up the capital building But it did not take much to push him over actually little red notes Big bang you let your family Yeah, we went over all this. It's fucking stupid. I'm sorry Why would lex be under the impression that batman will now kill superman because of those notes Fully die And at the same time he is swaying superman to not like batman by having the criminals killed that he sends the prison and sending the images of it to clark Yeah, but that doesn't mean superman's gonna kill him Which means he'll take issue with his branding people who get killed in prison like also We don't even know like this is the thing that would be an interesting thing to ask batman in the movie You never get to have that Nope In fact, he's choosing to brand people by the fucking end credits Yeah Can I also just offer some minor criticism to this guy? Please enunciate when you're doing your video essay More enunciate your words. Take me started out with that. Yeah, he was um, he's he's slurred. He talks too quickly He doesn't plan ahead for what he's going to say which is odd for a maybe not scripted but a like a released and Reduced video, you know, it's not all off the cuff But he's constantly slurring his words. He needs to calm down. He needs to relax. There is no hurry Now let's go over the fight. It doesn't matter. It's time to fight time to have the battle that the movie's named after pow Pew pew Oh, no batman's losing time to use a smoke bomb to trick the man who has x-ray vision Yeah, yep by point of that out. That was a that's a really dumb thing That's weird. That's so fucking stupid. Oh look now batman's winning because he farted on superman And this scene really reads like it was made by someone who greatly prefers a batman over superman I think that we've all pointed this out, right? I mean this fight's dumb. It's a really dumb fight. Yeah, there's only very specific isolated dare I say Instances moments this thing to be as kind as possible. There are tiny fragments of things I like in the fight But most of it is absolutely stupid I'm honestly surprised by how somewhere his analysis of the fight is two hours right down to referring to The kryptonite gas is fart gas. Yeah, like it's actually kind of enduring I think a lot of people probably made that uh It's just a lot of people made that you know connection. It just looks like it green gas coming out like that It's just how cartoons do farts a lot of the time. So I think it's hard to separate it, but you know good stuff Fart gas How am bonk batman wins the fight? It's dumb. I'm not gonna waste any more time on it Clearly he wasn't amused so a few things here first the smoke bomb earlier in the movie You can see grenades that had the symbol for lead on them So it wouldn't be far fetched that bruce learned about superman not being able to see through lead from the information He stole from lex because earlier we saw that lex used lead to hide the bomb superman So you more than likely mixed it in with the smoke grenade second the reason Wait like lead with smoke, how does that I like I don't even know that that's a thing like lead particles Wouldn't that not that wouldn't like work though that would only make it all fuzzy even if that was true But I don't think you can do like I I'm maybe if I don't believe that grenade with lead I don't believe that that would only smoke impenetrable for x-ray vision That would only like why would lining the grenade with lead change anything once it's out of the grenade Maybe so that superman wouldn't see the krypton gas super compressed inside of the that's fine. We're talking about the smoke one So he's saying that was the smoke like full of lead Yeah, he's saying that he he managed I guess to is it oxidized? I don't even know But like in the smoke there is lead in the smoke so he couldn't see through it Also, that's viable. Just like let me see well, like I said, it would just make him fuzzy if it was true Well, dare I say it this is one of those things that actually should be shown on screen like he's got some sort of x-ray machine that he's got running on some Smoke bombs and he's testing it out and we see oh he finally has managed to make a smoke that Can't be like seen through by an x-ray something like that anything So yeah, so we we have developed smoke grenades that um obscure like infrared ranges and stuff like that instead of just what we see Um, so I I can totally believe that you you have a cloud and it's full of different particles And so it obscures different kinds of vision. Yeah, I could I could I will believe the lead smoke But it would like I keep saying it would make him fuzzy He would have seen he was standing in one position smoke is released And then he would have seen That still like the the entity would be there compared to everything else It would just be less. Well, I I I think that just depends on how good it works So we just have to assume that it does work really well then I I would assume that if it was built by batman for that purpose it would work Hang on. Uh, oh, you know what actually I just googled this Lead poisoning occurs when lead is ingested breathing in dust that contains lead can also cause it So this would be a really dumb idea for batman to do. Oh, you mean like if you would actually breathe it in Yeah, because if batman were to breathe in Uh lead smoke then I mean He would get lead poisoning Well, he gets out of the cloud, right? He like sets it off and moves away But he's still going to be in the cloud for some time I mean, I I think that Considering what he believes the stakes would be a few seconds and lead gas would be all right the weird one and he Yeah, I wouldn't I think that'd be I think that's totally fine. I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't say he's an idiot for it What I'd say he's an idiot for is not having his mouth covered Well, so fairly enough. I'm kind of realizing like why do I even care like the on the list of problems the the Through that's like number 37. We just kind of care, you know, we just I just I like to get things out of the idea to me um But yeah, like this fight has so many issues that one is is in there for me But I don't know how high up and to be honest with you like yeah I'm just desperately latching on to things that I can find interesting about It would just this I'm thinking about it even if it only made him fuzzy. That's still good enough I suppose The Superman would be like, huh? and then Yeah, maybe he wouldn't be able to make out him like grabbing for a piece of gear Because Batman's goal is to make him confused for just even a second so he can shoot the the fought gas at him Yeah, which is weird because he opens the fight and gets two easy hits with the miniguns and with the sonic pulse wave thingies But what the fuck ever? I guess we didn't want to tip any of those bullets with kryptonite I think a fair question as well. I don't know if we've talked about but like Why did batman think that superman was coming? because I guess um Oh, um, they had met before and superman said don't come So if you shine your light in your sky, yeah He was just kind of hoping then Yeah, which I think is not Unreasonable superman clearly cared enough about batman to show up the first time to tell him to stop So I assume that it would be reasonable that superman would show up a second time to make good on his promise to You know kill batman if he had to I guess because we did make the lawn chair joke. It's just awkward if Batman's just like I if he didn't I hope he turns up. I guess batman has nothing to lose if he doesn't Yeah, you could just come up next night and then the next night again I suppose Um, I just still find it funny ultimately like if she just had that spear from the get go super Superman arrives and he's just like whoa, what the fuck pulls over and then batman's like well, you fucked. I already win But that wouldn't be a fun fight now would it? No, we have to have a fun fight like what we got Is because he not planned to fight superman, but he also rendered him weak by using the kryptonite Superman didn't plan the fight until he was forced to he also didn't think that he wasn't gonna get hit But something that could weaken him also like to mention that He could have no so when When superman says no wait lex wants us to and then gets hit He could have kept saying like because remember the gatling guns They don't really do anything the mini guns don't do anything to him because he's superman Yeah, the sonic thing only disables him for a little A few moments and it's at that point superman can continuously say wait. I don't want to fight you You know explanation But he doesn't ever do it. He tries feebly once and just never again It's worth saying that this guy just said that superman didn't think that there would be a weapon that badman could use to weaken him So at that point superman knowing how invulnerable he is He's got all the time in the world to just explain. Well, not all the time in the world because he's on a timer But he uh, he can easily explain without any risk to his own safety. Hey, they have my mom Yeah, we'll stop fucking around. I need to talk to you when he's being manipulated Getting punched over and over again. That should be the moment of like, okay So I might be in serious danger and my mom's about to die. I need to stop begging batman Um, but instead he gets uh, he gets annoyed Lex is behind it something Batman's like well superman's like me. I don't like the punchy man punch you back Well, I think so given how um, superman reacts to getting uh shoved by that one dude in the bar and everything it's like He could literally just stand there and let batman try to punch him continuously as he just explains the situation No, he has to punch back because he's annoyed and it applies to the opening of the fight as well. He's just like I want to throw you and Like and you're like why superman? It's like I want to fucking drive you through a whole building now Why why why like how and then I'm gonna go to your batmobile out in the parking lot And I'm gonna put a bunch of logs through it. That's another example Of superman. Did superman know nobody was in that building when he did that what building The one the one you threw batman into yeah when he drove batman through one of them all the way up to the top I assume he has x-ray vision. Well, so and then I was going to appeal to It's superman aware that if you destroy like an apartment building or I guess it's an abandoned building Was it was that was the it's abandoned. It's definitely abandoned It's one of those things where I'm just like It's it's it's like that in and of itself is much cleaner than anything else that we've been talking about with superman But at the same time it's just like the writers just made it that way because they're so shit Oh, this place is abandoned. There's no civilians here. Don't worry. There's not mass destruction because really it's just a building Yeah, it's just it's annoying to me because this is such a disproportionate response to Whatever batman's been doing to superman at this point has not been hurting him that much No, well, this is the thing. It's like a little kid. I don't know fucking slapping your knees. You're just like, okay Stop I mean like right. That's it. I'm gonna fucking punch you in the face and then re-explain my position. It's like, whoa But he uh, he does it anyway because he's really petty Which I'm slapping this is closer to like flicking your knees Like just not doing anything. Well, yeah, um And it's it's arguably worse as well because if anybody wanted to try and argue this is in character because he is a Petty superman. I'd be like his mother's in danger You've already tried to use the argument that his mother being in danger is why He would drive zod through a fucking eye hop. So Of course, he should be explaining to batman the situation But he just fucking stops because he sucks Question amongst comments and superhero fans is that batman could potentially defeat anyone if given enough prep time I mean, he's got plans for the whole just league and he's even killed dark side This has nothing to do with Also, I like that he shows the frame of batman shooting dark side to death I just find that amusing for It's like the biggest trolley problem for batman ever like the the whole universe or one life And he takes it because of course you would So the fight inside it isn't surprising considering the planning and the advantage you have with the kryptonite And then we get to the most misunderstood scene in the whole movie. Oh misunderstood. That's the word of the day I want to go ahead and guess I'm assuming he doesn't understand Ever right before batman uses the magic alien spear to execute superman The dumbest shit in the movie happens Superman, I don't know if this is the dumbest Oh, yeah, I was thinking that too Okay, it's certainly up there. This is This is dumb, but it's sort of in a weird way makes some level of sense to some degree It's just kind of nuts. I don't know. I used to feel that way. I don't think I do anymore I don't want to be seen as contrarian to cosmonaut because I think it's perfectly fair for him to say that this is the dumbest Seen in the movie in his opinion. I'm just saying I'm not sure if this is the dumbest scene because there's a lot to impact However, this is the one that jettisoned many people out of the movie In the theater when they first saw it like this is obviously stupid My yeah argument for why this might be the stupidest thing in the whole movie is Running with the consequence aspect, right? So this turns it from movie a to movie b this whole sequence changes the whole thing Yeah, I don't believe it is in batman's character as he's been presented in this movie to stop for this reason I was especially as soon as uh, I remembered Seeing the line where he's like your parents taught you blah blah blah The the knowledge that superman has a mother should change absolutely nothing Yeah I think that was when we were rewatching the film when he said your parents and what oh wait wait wait wait hold I thought So you know that he has parents and then the idea that The idea that superman is in because another argument that gets made is like well No, it's superman appealing to someone's life. That's not his own It's like bruce already knows that superman saved people's lives. He's seen it many many times So that wouldn't change anything either um, so batman is Dare I say I feel weird saying this he is assassinated in this scene as a character This is not something he would have done and it changes everything dramatically and it's incredibly significant Meanwhile And yeah, you understand the context. I'm saying he's assassinated as presented in this film Not you know anything other than that and then because of these details that kind of like are collected It's just it really is he's motivated by His like their mother's having the same name. Yes, it's incredibly fucking stupid But then the flip side because I think that this counts with this scene as we turn everything over Superman is convinced by batman to go and inspect the the ship doing weird things while batman saves his mother's life I think that's incredibly stupid too Fucking on the verge of assassination as well So it's like this is this is an incredibly destructive scene as well as leading to the third act Which it wouldn't happen had batman had you know acted the way you should have Um, so yeah, I I think it's competition for the stupidest thing in the whole movie I'm not sure if it is I'd have to think about it Because I think the creation of doomstay might be the stupidest thing in the whole movie the question The question is will cosmonaut pointed out like like point out those same reasons for why this is the stupidest scene in the whole movie Yeah, I guess we'll find out Moments first his mother by her first name Which causes batman to realize that's also strange. Oh my gosh. She's literally me Who the fuck refers to their mother by their first name? Especially as your final words before you are being killed This is the one thing that stops batman's murder quest cold turkey He switches to being superman's fucking best friend Yeah, and I think that's almost that makes it worse is how it's not a begrudging partnership, it's Like no, I really like you now button pressed switches flicked Martha worsen has become yeah, it's really it's like I would way prefer it if batman was like Okay, me and you were not good, but like there's bigger things at hand right now. Yeah, just remember where we were We'll get back to this Um, you know, it's a bit hyperbolic to say he's his best friend I just mean like the attitude and the atmosphere is really fucking odd. It's a complete yeah They seem to be on totally positive Like joke with each other later, right when he's like do you get the spear and he's like been kind of busy So that I thought I missed a scene of them Yeah, might I suggest a way to improve the scene by not having Martha's name dropped at all Yeah If Lois simply runs in there um and tries to put herself between batman and clark And there's like a more obvious emphasis on Batman realizing that he's become like joe chill I feel like that would like get a point across way better Like she gets in the way batman grabs her and throws her like to the ground or away And then she starts like fucking bowling her eyes out and begging him to stop I think I think that should do the man that killed his parents. He's the robber. Yeah. Yeah I am the robber that would That's already leagues better than what we got. So why didn't they just do that? It may not have even been good in execution if they did it I just think the concept itself is better than however Something we like to do is What's like the smallest of tweaks that can have the biggest of impacts and it's just like that already is Just makes the scene fucking way better Actually reconciling. I don't think it's weird that superman called his mother by her first name. What did you want him to say? Save my mom? Yes Yes, yes, yeah, I did it. You nailed it. You did it. You did it What a what a ridiculous fucking thing save my mom. Who would say that? Who would refer to their mother as my mom? Who would do that? Why would you do this in your own video? I don't I cannot remember the last time I ever referred to my mom by her first name. I don't I don't think I yeah, I don't Like only for maybe legal reasons when I do that and I've never been in like a situation where I've needed to Yeah, okay I want to run a little scenario by you guys here. You're in a bar guy picks a fight with you in the bar There's a big fight that you have with this guy and You're like He's been trying to kill you. Okay. And so you're about to kill him in self-defense and suddenly he goes wait wait my mom's in danger Like surely you stop be like wait what like you're you're being forced to fight me because Your mom's being held hostage. Well, what's the deal here? I assume your point man told me if I didn't start a fight with you he'd kill my mom I was gonna say it should give you more pause for thought than the guy in the fight saying save bartha You'd be like What? If you said save my mom you'd be like wait Wait, what's going on here? Like what what is that? What are you referring to? Is she like on dialysis and you need to be to go to Go help her out because you're not going to be able to if I kill you But save Bartha. Yeah to win this fight for the prize money so I can buy her insulin It's uh doesn't Sorry folks. It's shy. This scene does not survive scrutiny at all Our first name. What did you want him to say save my mom? He only has a few moments left so he pleads for the life of another and tries to get out as much as you know My mom and martha have the same amount of syllables I like how he said like it's such a ridiculous thing, but I didn't argue for why you just moved on. Yeah Maybe it's so obvious Go to batman with another like his mom You're fucking Makes more sense to do another and tries to get out as much as possible so that maybe batman could save her Because he didn't go to batman with the attention. Do you really think the information save martha is going to allow batman to save it versus save my mom If batman was like right so alfred, here's what I know someone in gartham presumably possibly metropolis called martha is in danger Okay Batman i'll fire up the batmobile for you Bruce this is not very helpful Bruce aren't you busy fighting superman Attention of fighting have to go to gartham to convince him to help me bruce please Don't try to argue That superman did everything he could to convince bruce because he didn't he did the bare minimum that allows the fight to continue It's like a token attempt. Even I don't even think this this the fight should have continued I think bruce should have been fucking fascinated by the fact that he said I was wrong lex has been trying like lex is fucking with us Like oh shit How are you not interested? Tell me more I was wrong you have to listen to me in his reaction isn't someone who's just noticing the coincidence He's basically having a ptsd flashback He's panicking right now thinking about his parents death and I wouldn't say he became superman's best friend If you look at him he looks like he's begging for a chance to save her maybe in a way by saving her He can find peace and not being able to save his own mom because he couldn't yeah Yeah, that's what everyone says about this because that's all you can draw out of it to justify it I get it. Yeah, but the problem is we're not dealing with A batman that's doing his first ever kill. This is a man who's killed many people The idea that this was the one that made him feel like he could be the very person He was trying to stop or couldn't stay it's like fuck off I feel like he should have either he's a really strange person or he thought about this before and didn't care And then he goes from this scene to shooting up a bunch of people with his gaitling gun on top It's about a batwing and then crushing people's skulls and with crates I would just I just want to be on the The call the Skype call with him and Alfred and he's like I've got to go save his mom You'd be like wait, what isn't he like there's a 1% chance he could destroy us all you got to top him What happened? What's going on? Well, I'm bad at math. I feel bad No time to explain Alfred. There's a woman named Martha in danger. Oh if I save her I save my mom in my mind It's very important So have you taken your crazy master Bruce? Have you taken your bat pills? So another fight between batman and superman happens. It's time for the final battle with doomsday. Oh, that's that's all the defense You have. Oh, right. Okay. Then moving right along. I'm glad we added all of our criticisms. Yeah Hey, and this is officially where the movie enters the realm of being too stupid to be forgiven. This movie It was already there, but okay Yeah, we passed that point a long time ago. I hope you mentioned the walking nuke thing and the batman protects himself under a brick I just I I want it come on. Please sir it has officially become a bad video game There's not even anything I can say about this They're just slamming into each other and then wonder woman shows up and she slams into him And then batman watches because he's just a regular guy She with you I thought she was with you What you've met her batman. She's I don't know. Maybe you could argue the batman thought despite having met her the she's in some way connected to super bad I guess She never explained to batman who she is right No, no. Yeah, you know this this room to Yeah, whatever. I don't know Is your friend who knows her you know who she is if you notice the man of steel in here He keeps describing the fights is just slamming into each other. That's because that's basically how a lot of these fights go Bad count. So he's right. Mm. Yeah. Um, so he's right one Fucking I don't care if that's how it goes in any other content We actually know for a fact that wonder woman can do more than that We'd see her do more than that Superman can do more than that. He tries to and then gives up for no reason batman. Yeah, he's just a guy He's just gonna be watching So not only does the film counter his point because uh, there are instances where the heroes can do a lot more But they just choose not to I don't care if it happened in the In the animation And also there's something to be said about like Maybe the reason that's in the animation is because they just didn't have the money to do better Like, you know You have lots of money You have no limitations really what you can do. I mean Fuck that. You have a vision, right? Yes. That's right. So why are you why are you that's right? Why are you leaning on the comics? You're a visionary Zachariah Snyder The leaders to glory Basically more important to one of them gets the advantage Especially with doomsday because he's getting stronger and stronger and shows that he's stronger than all three of them Also this line right here. Well, I mean not the sword that cuts his arm off, but that's all right Whatever In that clip he had They push each other and then he lays him and there's a bus that's put in the way presumably knew it was empty and then he uses like um A portion of the bridge that's been destroyed to hit doomsday It's like that's already way more interesting than simply hitting each other like back and forth Using your environment is obviously one of the first things you might think of when trying to make the fight more interesting I feel like this might just be Zach is snuffer snuffering Suffering from a lack of imagination here in creativity god for it Because people are dying so it's not ring Was referring to the fact that she just deflected doomsday's heat vision And he was guessing that she was another kryptonian or alien until superman asked if she was with him Clearly, he knows who she is. He sent her the email. I like how that's a reasonable thing batman would think Oh, do you mean like compared to everything else he says or thinking thinking that wonder woman might would be is also a kryptonian Sure Um, yeah, that was I don't know. Whatever that criticism tiny iota's tiny little itty bitty pieces that you're picking out of this Then marcus poop sandwich. Also. I love that on two separate occasions We have to have characters say that the places they're fighting in are abandoned Strikers island east of matrimony. Yeah, that's a funny thing What did you bring him back to the city the port is abandoned because oh, we can't make fun of this movie Please don't make yeah I think that's definitive evidence that zack found out about the criticism and became very self-conscious. He was like, oh, fuck That's really stupid of me. Yeah. Yeah millions are dead. I should not have that happen next. Yeah as the director Maybe I have the power to stop this Yeah, as has been the case with like a lot of things that I've heard cosmonauts saying is like guys You better not push it back against cosmonaut for this because I know for a fact that we've made these criticisms ourselves Well, you're talking to this guy right tex is gonna push back on this apparently so Good luck. We're gonna do it. You see the final battle didn't kill any innocent people Yes, it's strange that the military and wonder woman would be worried about civilians getting hurt. Come on, man. That's the No, that's that's what he said. That's not why those lines are in this movie That's you can play this the point What a shame Oh, well, I'm gonna miss Yeah, what you should what you should say for the thing this film is Um, is that this is a a fix. This is an improvement. See yeah, zack can improve things He he took the criticism from a previous movie and he is working towards maybe in a clumsy and unimaginative way But he is he's doing good. He's doing better. He's trying. He does care And there's a part of him that cares and knows it Let's try and bump up this. Well, it's not even a steel man because it's not in any way his argument. So what have I said? Well, hey in this movie batman is deliberately taking him to a place He knows is uninhabited like that's different from it just happens to be a place is uninhabited Um, the one we're doing is they falls on an island You could say it's very lucky that he fell on that island But at least the island small enough that it could reasonably be assumed that there's just nothing on there And tourists aren't allowed to go on there and it is an empty island You realize there's more reason for these places to be uninhabited Than per usual and of course the characters would be invested in finding out whether or not that is true So it all lines up. However, I will concede It's pretty overt and the reasoning is because people had concerns for man of steel There you go Instead he said well, of course people care about whether or not it's uninhabited Okay, he's getting hurt. Come on, man So yeah, Superman totally dies like for real not clickbait and the civilians that hate him mourn His death and the guy who only knew him for an hour mourns his death I failed him Life Dude, you tried to stab him to death in a dirty warehouse. You weren't fucking friends Yes, people mourn his death because he gave his life to stop doomsday People were so concerned about his intentions and questioned his existence But after he sacrificed himself they realized that they were wrong about him also Yeah, he had a lot he had a lot of fans He he was he was the probably the most popular single person on the planet When your movies are this broken. It just it's always gonna fail Um, and the instance here would be Superman has done a lot to save people's lives throughout this already So why is it that this one makes a huge difference in terms of like how people see him? It's like well, he died for it like well, I mean At the same time. Yeah, that helps but he already had a lot going for him like this There wasn't a there wasn't a mind to change. I mean the general sentiment is confusing Even after the way that he handled the battle of metropolis. He was still helping some people in his life That's what I mean. The the the attitudes are strange We don't really understand the public perception and of course it super applies to Batman It's like I failed him. You're like mate. Your reasoning was he had the potential destroy the earth And so we have to stop him you decided against that when you found out his mum and your mum of the same name like I What do you what is it that you regret That trying to kill him like the reason to kill him hasn't changed So it just must mean that you feel you were mistaken now. That's it Which by the way, it's like yeah, of course That's why it's I was never invested in like the idea of you have to kill anything that has the potential to do anything bad to a wide scale It's fucking weird So Batman is because he feels partly responsible for his death since he was so blinded by rage and fear and planned to kill him That has nothing to do with his death like Superman's death and their combat in in the Empty warehouse place. It's nothing to do with each other. Those two things are entirely separate. Yeah, it's weird That's that's what's so weird is that their their relationship just sort of changes if anything Uh bruce's desire to kill superman is what gave them the chance to kill Doomsday because of the spear so The idea that he somehow led to superman's like the way you want to do that I guess is that during their fight he manages to cripple superman in some way and superman cannot Win the fight easily against doomsday But that's not what happened The different movie you describe in there Also about him. He's referring to failing him as a hero Batman has fallen so far from his morals that it's through superman's death that he realized that he should have followed his example Amazing to me. But like Batman has this huge change of heart because superman died trying to stop a bad guy Sorry following So batman should have been following superman's example while superman was living um Even after again the metropolis incident and didn't superman kill the kryptonians, too Yeah Aren't they similar in that vein or am I am I lost here? I just I just don't get it and why would this be new to batman? He's been heroine for 20 years. He said that everybody is either like died or become evil Like how is he not way more seasoned than clark? Isn't he suggesting that the moral of the story is that batman should have just Basically shrugged off all the damage that the collateral damage and metropolis then which yeah, which again This is why I'm bothered by it There's so many references that are so contradictory to each other like you can't frame this in any way that doesn't do a problem But not pragmatically Yeah, you should have uh, well, that's the thing like if the movie wanted us to think batman was wrong to take Issue with superman. I'd be like, no, you've gone too far in the other direction now But I think it's stupid he wanted to kill him But I also think it's stupid that to think the superman did nothing badly in man of steel We don't get to have it Don't get it all. We don't get to have these discussions and conversations that would be interesting There's definitely like an area of nuance that the film just manages to completely miss it always goes and like Too far in one direction and too far in the other Never meets in that nice little sweet spot in the middle where There could be an interesting discussion had about superman and his place in the world Part of what I remember Getting so hyped for when I first started watching civil war and in the theater. Um One of the things I didn't White like about winter soldier And this wasn't a flaw with the film Was uh cap's decision to down all of the uh the aircraft carriers because I remember thinking to myself like It's in character. It's just that oh my god the amount of Resource he just destroyed and the amount of people that might be in trouble from where they've landed Like oh, I don't know about this. I don't know how I feel about this But then civil war is like you did that and it did stuff and I was like, oh, yeah Oh The world recognizes that it would have results. That's so cool They're so cleaning off the debris and uh homecoming Yeah, and again, I believe cap would make that decision But uh as it shocks fury when he first says he's gonna do it I imagine you could argue that fury is only shocked because of a resource position, but Like I don't think fucking he buries rum. Lo who knows how many people could have been killed in those buildings because cap Doesn't know that everyone's out, you know, but it's It's a serious moment. There's lots to discuss about it And it's one of the bigger things that leads to civil war and I was like, yay. Woo. We did it Hooray They don't do it in this though And batman threatens to brand him like a cow and send him to archimage. Oh, yeah So batman's still okay with branding. That's kind of funny, right? Like And he's got friends who will fuck with people who've been branded and he's okay. Like what exactly is batman lured? Nothing Nothing at all Asylum to be murdered just to remind you That batman did not learn his lesson batman does learn his lesson if you listen to the speech at the end Man is still good. We fight man is still good He said batman God We kill we betray one another But we can rebuild we can do better. We will It's so fucking embarrassing that he had to he got this from superman dying Jesus We have to Mankind makes mistakes but it can get better because there is still good left in mankind and through superman example He's it's disappointing to me that someone who's been superheroing for like I said 20 plus years He's only now learning that men can be good What the fuck like what do you think he's trying to do? What's this whole point? Does batman believe that he wasn't trying to do good And then how do you reconcile that with the branding scene exactly? Yeah He's going to be that's why he says he won't fail him in death I failed him in life I won't fail him in death He also doesn't brand lex at the end. He more so just scares him instead and punches the wabis No, you know, he was going to brand him, but then lex says i'm insane But he's just like, I'm gonna transfer you Arkham Also, how is this evidence the batman has learned where he fucking violently punches the wall with his Man, you got I guess he's learned to take out his aggression on inanimate objects instead of people God lucky, you just need to spread the word if he's about to brand you say no, no, no, I'm insane batman Please don't kill me. You're okay He's telling me a crazy That makes it so much better batman won't kill them if they're insane Side him showing that he has changed and now that luther is considered criminally insane He wants to send him to arkham to keep an eye on him Well, no, doesn't he say it in a really threatening way like that in a threatening way. Yeah He's hoping to transfer him there to get fucked up All right, I don't want film you're watching I'm insane I'm not even fit to stand trial That's right We have hospitals to treat them. Wait, doesn't that mean that he already knew that he was insane if he says that's right? Like, oh, yeah, I mean he was gonna brand him whether or not he was That's how I um, yeah, that's how I'd read it honestly Cleo That's not where you're going. Yeah, he said we have places to treat people like that with compassion, but that's not where you're going Yeah, you're not getting compassion. How does that come across to you as anything but a threat? I ring for you to transfer the arkham asylum in godland It blows my mind that there are people who watch this movie and like it um I can uh with most movies I can always there's a lot of weird people who just like weird shit And they try to justify it for whatever irrational reason like no fans who love mando. Yeah. Well, mark is like last was too He thinks swan division was pretty good, right? Yeah, people said Yeah, man, like there's a lot of irrational people who are fucking crazy. Does he like tlj? I can't remember Yeah, he does uh, so What's interesting is like he um He doesn't believe in like objective quality, which is fine. I agree with him in that sense um, but it's interesting because He's saying oh, there are people that I mean, you don't what do you mean? He uh objective quality Wait, what what do you mean? Uh, he doesn't believe in objective quality Um, well, I think that he believes that the way that we Look at movies isn't objective And you agree with him Um, not for the reasons that he would provide Um, the point is that I find it interesting that he's uh talking about how there are people that watch this movie and like it And yet he's uh like a very much a subjective person But all of us agree it's fine to like pretty much any movie I'm good. Well my position's changed on that. It's a very very specific I understand that anyone can like anything at any point But like and I don't really consider this a change just more of just being more specific Like everyone believes that there's limits to what we we're okay with other people liking Like when it comes to lots of different pieces of media and I don't need to make extreme examples But you can probably imagine what I'm talking about if you find out your friends thoroughly enjoy watching a particular Type of of thing happening in a movie over and over again You probably be like wow, I think it's fucking disgusting that you like this I condemn the fact that you like this now So I'm gonna be like well, what the fuck's I got to do with like random superhero movies It's just like well no I'm just saying that we do actually hold that position and there are certain things For example, what Wonder Woman does in Wonder Woman a4 if someone said like oh, I really liked that. She did that. It's so cool We'd be like oh, yeah, that's um, it's a little disturbing actually, but okay Or defending what Wanda did in Wanda vision But of course in the context that that Cosmos doing here like I don't have much trouble understanding Why people like a lot of really shit media because oftentimes you can see like, you know Like Boba Fett beating people up. You're like, oh, I I know why I know why people like it. It's super cool Um Yeah, I don't know Maybe he's just saying to be hyperbolic because I'm sure cosmonaut Actually does in real terms would be like, yeah, anyone can like anything. It doesn't surprise me Unless he's gonna argue that this film is like the most miserable film he's ever seen, you know That's hilarious coming from the guy who likes Captain Marvel and the last Jedi people in glass houses Marcus What? Uh, you you like Batman versus Superman You think that well steel is the best Superman movie He didn't make the claim that he can't understand people liking Oh, yeah, true anything. He just said it's interesting that you would say it when because that's what we just said We just said it's interesting that he would make the claim what he likes the last was to etc Um, which by the way, I think that was a particularly useful example because the last was to fucking miserable like Yeah game, so Or you know what how about you recommend me a game. What were you thinking the last of us two Joel? Wow, okay? There you go Oh, he's gonna say the Joel thing. Well, it's not a fucking beloved character get the fuck out of here Okay, yeah, let's see. Yeah, so that was a retired thing he said in the past, but that's irrelevant to what he's saying now Um, like you can't he's saying it in response to him saying that he can't understand anyone liking bvs Which I mean even I'm like I can understand people liking bvs. Yeah, I understand why people Others of them And I might actually be hundreds of them Now let's talk about this interpretation of batman marcus clearly isn't a fan of it And I fully believe that there are some things you should never change when it comes to batman number one batman doesn't use gun but There are many instances of him not only using them in the comics, but there are there are easily Things you can write that he would need to use one What do you think a grappling hook is the very first batman comics would show him killing people and using guns As far as I'm concerned, you can write him in a way that he fucking hates guns Or you can write him that he thinks it's okay to use guns I'd like it's just the idea that you cannot write a batman that uses guns to me. I'm just like oof Like it's some sort of intrinsic property of what batman is as a concept or a thing Well, people would say that you have to explain that shit Also, this wouldn't be the first time that we see Batman using guns on like the batmobile or the bat pod in the dark night I mean, doesn't he use an actual like minigun thing in batman 89 though? What? I say that I think some people consider batman 89 to be very unfaithful. So what do I know? Yeah, this is the thing we know this exists. We know loads of people think the batman cannot use guns As a definitive so we'll have to see where this goes No, batman doesn't kill people number three Oh, yeah, I don't know what to tell you that he has He's but like some of those and he often does usually some of the most popular portrayals in movies having killing people I don't know what to tell you he does more than he doesn't like again Okay, literally every live action version of batman outside of george cloney has killed at least one person Yeah, this is where My hands feel tired at this point like I can't even I don't need to provide a defense because I know you people like it when he does this He's done it in loads of his movies. Stop lying to me It unless you think there's just no good batman except for george cloney I don't think anyone has that position We're gonna say I was just gonna say I think that it can be interesting to explore Batman feeling conflicted about yeah, like whether or not to kill certain characters I just I just don't want to close the door in it. That's all I'm saying Like let's let's make it interesting. Let's apply it to his carrier Let's make it an important part whatever you want to do But the idea you cannot have him like the second he kills or takes a life in any way should perform He's no longer like a well-written batman. I'm just like, uh, oh But mauler we're supposed to be the ones that limit creativity and what writers are allowed to do Oh my god Three Doesn't use fucking guns to kill people So it's no surprise that his version of batman gets rid of all nuance distills him down to an angle. Whoa Okay, just I don't I don't want to misrepresent him. We'll replay it But just in case I thought that there was an implication there that if batman uses guns to kill people you've lost all nuance Uh Like there's not a nuanced way to even provide that context What he does this is a natural implication like punisher is not nuanced because He uses guns to kill people's which can't be I don't know. Let's play it again people Number three batman doesn't use fucking guns to kill people So it's no surprise that his version of batman gets rid of all nuance and just distills him down to an angry punching man Now if you're the kind of person who thinks batman should kill people because it's more realistic Well, that's okay, but you and I can't be friends if you think that way Peeling to realism Event maybe I am when I'm saying like events can take place that would lead to that choice being made Yeah, if if there is literally never any scenario where he doesn't use a gun like where's the nuance in that mr nuance That's the opposite of doing that what's funny is like mixed in is like oh He's like a psycho punchy angry man And I'm just like I mean yeah like this portrayal is pretty bad But like not necessarily just because he's using guns like that's not He's like crazy and angry sure But they're like internal reasons why this is all bullshit Do we know if um the batman baton son batman is do we have any word on him killing yet? I'm assuming we don't know we don't know yet Although we've seen is how he beats down that one thug which it is gonna Land him in the hospital for a long time, but doesn't look like a kill That's the thing I find fascinating about everyone's love of batman, but simultaneous He never kills like the amount of people he must have killed I've I have uh, I have frequently made the joke that Batson isn't going to kill because a corpse can't feel pain Like it's just there you go The way he the way he goes after criminals in and I don't have an issue with it per se I'm I'm you know what if you want to have a very pissed off Rookie batman or the pissed off experienced batman totally fine um But very funny to say well, you just can't have him kill people It's okay for him to cripple people but not kill Wait am I um am I off the mark with this or is that kind of funny? That's pretty funny with the red dots, you know, I mean like That's kind of funny Well, no the you do you get what I mean what I'm saying with these dots like Because his mask Yeah, because unless is his mask tilted because it's broken because I mean if if his mask was not broken It will it looks like the mask is only that Is normal except for the part that got broken off and didn't get broken off inwards. I guess but okay Um, so I I guess um, yeah, I don't think yeah, we got a little bit of yeah We got a little bit of Mandalorian helmet. I don't think he's seeing that without right eye. He's gonna have a bit of trouble That's okay Value is that he values life above everything else because his world was shattered So if valuing life above everything else does not translate to I will never under any circumstance in a single life Yeah, if Batman has to choose between a life and many lives He will obviously choose the many lives if lives are if each individual one is sacred to him Batman is not so stupid an idiot It would be a character assassination of batman and almost all of his iterations If he did not kill the one to save the many I generally hate the uh, the idea that if batman kills, um Like the idea that killing people in self-defense or in defense of others is immoral Which is like that's what police do. It's what soldiers do. It's what sometimes regular civilians have to do like I just that's why I don't have an opposition to batman killing because There are situations where people have to kill to preserve life to preserve innocent life And that is what I would call the nuance because Simply saying he doesn't kill people so he won't to me. I'm like, oh, that's a bit I don't know that feels a little limited. It's the opposite of nuanced. Yeah, that's the opposite of nuance and the idea And especially by the way, I think it's much more interesting for batman to compare himself to The people who killed his parents when he's killing someone not because he's trying to save someone else's life But because he wants that person dead That's when he should be like, wait, what am I turning into? What have I done? Like I think I'm going too far Why people kill the people they kill is a very important aspect of their character if they're in batwoman's I mean that though that is technically true if they're in batman's role You know, they should be able to tell the difference between why am I killing this person? Do I want to what do I derive from doing this? We're once again highlighting like, oh Why did they do that at bvs like my motive to kill superman isn't to save people It's just I want him dead because I just don't you need him to like realize like my motive to kill him is so Lacking in any kind of like rationality or purity that it's it's it's affecting me as a person And it's turning me into the thing that I I started all of this for to avoid, you know There's so much about him that's so interesting to think about as a character And just I just think that whenever someone locks off the potential of him to end a life You you've taken away some really powerful storytelling And you know what his his origin can change right like his origin reason I mean so like it could be he never wants to become the person that he That took away his parents Yeah, Gotham I did it And it could also be that he never wants to take a life because life is sacred like those two things aren't the same There's two different motives But they're two that are often shared by people who love Batman in the comics so I think that you could come up with several Motivations at the core that are that are spurred on by this event And you know what ultimately I thought the people who really respect and and blah blah the comics they they are okay with Elseworlds So can't you just canonize anything you don't like about a batman adaptation as Elseworld? Sure, and you could even change it after the fact I don't know the whole conversation is frustrating Indeed by a Act of violence and he wants to prevent anyone from feeling the pain that he felt that day And I'm really into gatekeep superheroes over here. You can have different interpretations of the character But I'm just saying there are a lot of things about these characters that people ignore because movies get them wrong as well We look at spider-man and we I'm I didn't follow that sentence saying that I'm not trying to gatekeep but batman cannot do these things because we have to keep him new On and you also referenced the the Nolan trilogy. Does he think the Nolan trilogy is bad because batman kills? like genuine question Well, you don't know with this guy. I don't know. I have no idea and I assume he would say well, no I just don't think he should have And then I'd be like well, then how does it work? I mean there's situations in the Nolan trilogy where I feel like especially when tackling Harvey Dent To his death. It's like well, it's between that and letting commissioner Gordon's kid possibly die. Well, but that's like our whole point That's like that will happen and I'm curious if cosmodal is against them or not Act of violence and he wants to prevent anyone from feeling the pain that he felt that day And I'm really not trying to gatekeep superheroes over here You can have different interpretations of the character But I'm just saying there are a lot of things about these characters that people ignore because movies get them wrong as well We look at spider-man and we accept the fact that he doesn't kill people because he's a cute fun guy And he's nice and if he killed people it would make us sad He could kill people you can make a version of spider-man. That's a cruel and vindictive person Who didn't take advice that was given to him There's there's like been storylines of him using a cloth version of the symbiote suit And going out for vengeance because people target his loved ones I mean, but also a comic book version of everything if we get the the dream and that is To keep getting spider-man movies with tom holland that have well written that would that's the dream. Okay. I'm not saying it's a reality um I would definitely want one of these stories to test whether or not he would kill somebody if it meant saving more people I I want that to happen Totally, I want to see what he does and how he deals with it. Yeah, it would help the character like as the character matures and grows up and you know has to sort of face the realities of being an adult I didn't even realize it's so controversial It's like a lot of uh superhero content that I've consumed over the years It's just like yeah, if you have a no kill rule superhero one of the obvious things you do is test it Yeah, I can help the uh Captain America civil war opens with the avengers having to kill a bunch of people Well, you know So people just assume you're supposed to murder people If you ask me this mentality is pretty dumb and zack snider is one of the people who thinks this way I think it's hilarious He uses a panel from the comic where he used a gun to say batman shouldn't use guns Now I agree that there are different interpretations and this is one of them But his biggest issue is the killing he mentions it in the beginning and then later on And he uses this clip from an interview with zack snider to help illustrate this You know, I tried to do it in that sort of um Technical way I tried to do it like by proxy. He shoots a car that they're in the car blow up that counts is killing I'm a little bit confused. What is zack trying to say? I tried to do it. Yeah, I Like that's still killing though Like surely the zack think that if he's not like actually reaching into his chest and pulling out his beating heart Personally, it doesn't count. I'm well confused. It's not I'm confused as well It's not me pushing this person off the skyscraper that killed them. It's the sudden stop at the ground at the end Yeah, it's this it's really the laws of physics and I didn't make those. I'm not responsible Yeah, I agree with cosmonaut. That's a really weird thing to say. I'd like to know what zack was trying to say with that I've covered video from a while ago, but I'll go over it again here When it comes to bat fleck the goal was not to have a young batman It was to have a batman who's been at it for two decades who has lost those close to him His parents robin and seen others go bad 20 years in god them I saw the clip first. Yeah. Yeah, he's gonna keep playing I guess. Um So He's like a Grizzled batman who thinks you can end lives now because he's seen things go bad. It's like you don't have to do better than that Yeah, I'm gonna have to you're gonna have to convince me You're gonna have to show me might because I could just as easily believe that he's set in his no kill Unless absolutely necessary ways. Yeah, we because we bit we I think it was near the beginning of this Uh, we we were talking about how he has the thing looking to save all weapons You know You have a building and there's like loads of men all around it all with guns And there's one person at the top who's a hostage you have to rescue I feel like that's probably like a mission in like all batman games like a stealth mission Yeah, you have to try and figure out how can you get in and save them? While either incapacitate all the men or avoiding as much of them as you can Bounders your fuck Shoot them all with this minigun That's that's kind of the problem is is just like oh, he doesn't really think anything through He's just gonna you know The equivalent of when you give up and you just start shooting in your stealth game because you're like, ah, fuck it And it's indicative of his character and that's um, I guess it would be nice to know why Beyond well, he's been around for 20 years and he lost robin Okay Yeah, I want to see how uh, how does batman handle the no country for old man old men problem You see what promises are worth How many good guys are left Still wonder how this doesn't apply to him What does he think about this is he is the logic here that he's like there are no such things as good guys So i'm gonna be a bad guy and kill people Because that just raises so many more questions Yeah, that's yeah, and way that's worse than him killing somebody. I would question why he wants to kill superman at all at that point You're like, what what's the difference? But more importantly, he's lost his way after he brands the criminal alfred approached a bit more than losing one's way Wouldn't you say? Yeah, it's it's a bit of a leap a little bit more of uh Like quite a departure We didn't get to talk more about this moment where he so we highlighted how alfred should probably have known about the um the bat Uh branding earlier. He just doesn't for some reason ignoring that he's like, um changing the rules, uh like like it's Obviously, uh referencing how it's like, you know branding The people that you've captured and they're getting i'm assuming he's referencing they're getting killed And he's like we've always been criminals alfred. Nothing's changed He's like that's not really a response. Yeah, that's not yeah, like do you think all crimes are equal? You think shoplifting and genocide are on the same level And also just alfred's the person you've known this whole time is like wow you you're burning your victims What's that dude? And you go we've always been criminals No, that that's not it's not at all. What are the questions, uh New rules We're criminals alfred. We've always been criminals. Yeah, thank yeah I just I just think it's really any any illegal thing I do is justified because we're vigilantes Which by the way all the things what a thing for what a thing for batman to say But once again, it's an idea like you can have a story where someone is already a vigilante And so they start to slip and it's like well, I I'm already breaking the law. That's interesting You can't have a brand people go. Well, we're criminals No, that's D. We're criminals That's the thing is like you can develop this you can start out showing his early days And yeah over time he uh, he starts to slip it's a to waver in his morality And it could be really interesting. It could be Maybe he uh runs across someone who was really affected by the joker after batman refused to kill the joker It's a kind of come to terms with the fact that his no killing rule is allowing psychopaths to You know run around and continue killing people. Yeah, and that's going to have a You know these effects that he doesn't intend And maybe that kind of pushes him into being like, yeah, you know what? Maybe I should kill the criminals that I come across and then you have You could have it be that he is absolutely okay with killing people to save other people's lives And then you could have it be it goes further and further and then you can have five goons doing goon things He beats them all up and one of them in the report on the newspaper died from their injuries Alfred's like damn and he's like Brought it on himself and like leaves the room like doesn't acknowledge the fact that it's someone's died as a result He's just like whatever. That's just how it works now like these people got themselves into The situation This is something that needs to be developed over like a trilogy Well, it would be nice if batman got his own movies in the dcu instead of being shoved into a half superman movie That feels like the culmination of a lot of storylines, but whatever Yeah went through all of the meaningful history That's how it starts The fever yet having another character say you've gone bad. It's really just it's not much of anything This this whole thing could be so much more meaningful if this was like 10 years after the first dcu movie No, I was I was like literally thinking like if this was 10 years into developing this character Yeah, we've had like five movies and three crossover movies or something Yeah Powerlessness He's talking about bruce here. He's telling that he's too. All right. Yo, you did you think maybe No, he's talking about Brumbo nobody I guess yeah the local fisherman. It's just yeah And hell the intro of the movie is bruce talking about his own fall from grace referring to batman as a yes Why oh my god. This is once again the whole like ideas versus execution thing Yes, I know what that was going for. I promise I get it. I understand. I got it. I really do I really do in the dream They took me to the light. Yes. Yes a beautiful lie He's a shell of his former self. This isn't the batman. We know anymore. You don't have to tell me that I picked up on that little detail This has led to a more reckless and uncaring batman That's the biggest thing people get wrong about this interview with zack snider. You know, I tried to do it in that sort of um Technical way I tried to do it like by proxy. You shoot the car that they're in the car blow up This thing that he's doing is describing that means reasoning for doing what he's not proxy That's his reasoning. What do you mean? That's his reasoning the car that he's in You it's not the bullet. It's the hole it left behind You're still choosing to end these people's lives. I don't know why this is hard for you to understand Like it isn't by proxy like he's shooting the cars Yeah, if he uses a tool it doesn't count What does he expect to happen when he shoots at a car? You know what? I just realized as well like this just doesn't work at all because He lands his ship there and then starts shooting at them. They shoot at him When he could have landed a ship somewhere else arrived in stealth gotten straight to the room where martha is And like killed the two people in there because fuck it whatever he's gonna kill everybody anyway And then get her out instead. He's like i'm gonna perform a major assault from the ground level up. You like Uh, we got time for this Let alone the fucking fact that he's gonna kill everybody What about dropping flashbangs like everywhere? Yeah, I think he'd have a shit ton of those sorts of things he he'd load himself up like a no kill playthrough of deus x Taser guns and stonings Yeah, he'd have he'd have the whole nine yards You gotta watch out though With an m60 attached to martha. He's killed up. He's got a itchy trigger finger at a tired arm. My goodness Killing by proxy. Yes, which is still killing but he's describing the way batman sees it if a guy has a grenade So you're saying batman's a fucking idiot Yeah, I feel like we just went over all this like you you're suggesting that batman doesn't have a choice When you enter into that conversation, we can now look at all of the past Fights including this one and explain to you all the different things that batman can do 20 year veterans superhero can't come up with some ideas compared to us really Shit should have stayed home If a minute gun is shooting at him and he takes out the car that's attached to and blows it up too bad He shouldn't have been in the way What what are you? This is this is the point where I am just Wow, this guy hold this is this is one of those desperation defenses Too bad. He shouldn't have been in the way Dude, do you remember who said that in a certain just say they just shouldn't have been a criminal Then they wouldn't have died from batman Do you remember who said recently in a superhero property? Oh, I would feel bad, but that fucker was just in our way Oh, yep. Yep. I remember I like this logic. It's really really fun It's uh starlight Oh, yeah, I got you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He got in the way. So I for a second there I was I was thinking batwoman for a second and I was searching I was like surely she said that that sounds like something that would be perfectly in character for batwoman And so I was searching dude ray Uh captain marvel starlight batwoman and wander damn We're running out of female heroes And the movie this as if it's the right thing to do you think this is wrong or questionable for batman to do The movie presents it as if it doesn't give a shit That's the yeah, that's precisely the issue. We never get to fucking talk to batman about this And he never goes over why he chooses to do this over the other options he has Stop now. This is technically only an issue if you want to do the whole batman doesn't kill people In this universe if he just fucking lights people up with a minigun, then I guess that's what batman does in this iteration of him However And so you'd be like so where does the problem lie then and it's like well It's in his criticism of superman at that point, right because he's doing yeah, that's the thing It invents a new issue. It's not that he's he's he's Inconsistent in a different way and this way is more in universe, which is the greater sin it feels like um You know like you have like a I don't know a system of diodes like little lights And they're all gonna lead one way you switch it and then a bunch of others light up and lead to a different floor Like just tell me which which one you want to go with interpretation wise and I can tell you how it ends up being Shit because there's so many references that fuck with each other in this movie You like you have to create that enormous network that twin perfect did to try and rationalize it But even then still falls apart They're in his way, but they do want to rationalize it. That's the thing They do want to Convent they they want to make it make sense and why want to make it needs to make sense because they really liked it That's why yeah, because they really liked it What's cool. So now I explain the reasons why I need to find a reason for it to make sense My brain actually wants this to make sense What's cool about ol efap is you'd be like well, you guys are clearly biased for the mcu It's like no, okay. You're clearly biased against the dceu. It's like no, why? You guys are probably those kind of people You guys are probably the kind of people that want uh, you know, batman to never kill anyone It's like, oh, I've I got some news for you Oh boy, you're not dealing with that kind of you're gonna drop some zod pills on you So yeah, I just it's amusing to me because we come on to the dceu discussion seed If you will completely like we got no hiccups about anything. We're just like let's have a look. Oh, they really shit. Oh, well Like I just I got the investment that the two sides have doesn't even just it just makes for shit videos That's kind of interesting, right? Because we often talk about you should talk about the things you're passionate about But in a lot of ways what you're passionate about ends up blinding you from being able to make any good arguments I know some people are gonna be like would this apply to you guys like well Yeah, but like I'm just saying it could if it does point it out until then Yeah, like the these videos that we cover are always from people who are like these movies are amazing masterworks What was the last video saying it was it was um master it was a masterpiece in a in like a true work of art This is art. This is art. This is not civil war. This is art, right? Not amusements You're right. We have to suit man's death. He says he failed him in life, but won't fail him in death I failed him. You played this clip so many times I promise I promise we heard him I won't fail him in death. Why would you explicitly say the whole clip and then play the whole clip as you said it? Isn't that I'm not sure just play the clip. Yeah, we hear this is what Bruce Wayne says Play clip Yeah, or just have or do both where you say it and he's melding the words in the back. So yeah, that's a good option He failed him as a hero And this would be the start of batman going back to the hero with the code of morals like he used to be Now I want to talk about the comments in the beginning of the video about saying or not understanding these characters So let's take the guy who doesn't understand watchmen and give him the rights to make batman and superman movies I'm sure he'll do a great job. The biggest problem with these movies Is that he doesn't understand these characters. I'm going to argue that he does understand these characters But he wants to explore them My contentious, he doesn't understand characters That's yeah, they're just the they're just the uh, let's say the collateral damage. They're a symptom. Shall we shea? But like when when I heard him talking about how he doesn't want like batman and superman talking because they're in costumes Like what an incredibly damning thing to say It's really weird to maintain that he's a big fan of and wants to maintain the characters from the source What he also says it looks dumb when they talk to each other in their suits. It's like oh Oh, yikes Whoops In a way that has before in film He wants to re-establish superman from the ground up and build him to be the superman that we're all familiar with Right. He originally had we need to rebuild superman for the ground up now. Good job. It's just Now we've got it all over again Unbefuckin leaveable honestly a five movie art plan for superman to get him to the optimistic and bright character that we all know I don't give a fuck Is this an idea that we just How can't we just start there, you know, yeah, it's not even yeah, why can't If you want to make superman a person who doesn't care for human life Okay I'll watch your version. Hopefully it it's internally consistent. I'm assuming you're gonna make him either a villain or Like like an apathetic doctor mad hatton type Um, but my issue isn't that he's not the character from the comics It's your movie is bulls like the characterization is all over the place. I'm sorry and it's like, oh, no No, no, no, he's gonna be the guy, you know in five movies. I'm like that start addressing me at all Call me in five movies Jesus They will watch them all back to back and we can get this over with especially if they're this quality To look at batman and see what would it take for him to lose his way? And what would take to get we didn't see what it took you have not earned that We were told what was not even close Like I said, this has not been developed in the slightest. There are luke skywalker all over again He he said all the scenes with people telling us why he's sad like oh so many years of people not Doing good. Oh look robin died. Oh We didn't see any of it. Fucking hell. There is more that we know of peter b parker's Uh background that they show us and into the spider-verse then this movie gives us Yeah, and we see in like a minute. We learn heaps about him It's really It's all it's all inconsistent with what the character, you know It's crazy how emotionally resonant the the last scene that we see of him Is in that movie where he gets to be with mary jane again. Like how much I give a shit about Back with him again. Yeah, like they're they're gonna try he is like by god He is going to try to mend his relationship and that's all that I cared about seeing And then such a missed opportunity like if if he was telling me this is his plan I was like, wait, why don't you want to make the batman movies? Why wouldn't That people want to see this Get him back. That's why we get a superman who doesn't make all the right choices Stop categorizing this as not making the right choice Not the right choice to flies on into a patch for a station that blows off I Agree, it's not the right choice. Eddie can do something. It's an incident of damage This there's so many themes with these fucking people like defending bbs and madder steels He's still learning and that's how we get a gritty batman who strayed far from his path But because a superman he learns just how lost he became off Marcus actually leaves in the perfect rebuttal to most of his arguments because a lot of it comes down to these Characters being not comic accurate or mishandled or misrepresented Now you might be saying oh marky. You said it's okay for movies to oh well. I mean Marcus is a hypocrite. That's like his whole thing Yeah, he uses whatever argument is relevant This is the thing as much as he can be right in certain circumstances that you can't understand him as a critic overall You'll never know if he liked a thing or not No, this system is it's just non-existent Meanwhile with us if you think you've found let's say like a hundred problems in a property and we all praise it I could understand why you'd be confused with with Marcus. You got nothing. It's like no today likes this Today you might not see an iron man It's okay when the man during his this bullshit and nothing like his comic counterpart because he enjoyed it Yeah, whereas us you understand what our criteria is and you know how to change your mind on a movie Change comics, but sometimes you get upset when they make a change And I didn't think I'd have to explain this outright, but I don't think some people get it I've always said that changes are good if they work in the context of that story So you could let Batman kill people Yeah, so you're a hypocrite. What do you know? What do we just say? I don't think he realizes how much of a window he opens by saying if you make it work in that context Like oh, so I can make anything work, right? Because being able to change the context gives me a hell of a lot of things to change I always I like how the mandarin is changed in iron man 3 because I think for that story It makes perfect But then I also said that I don't like the movie version of civil war Because the comic book version to me has a lot more emotional significance. Why would you show this and say that? It's Like I like I said, I've already briefly understood exactly what the comic Counterpart is for civil war and from what I understand the movie a lot of people who like the comic think the movie was a better choice storyline wise So it's it's interesting and and it sounds like the it's not like an uh an ended conversation there Because he's saying he found it more emotionally resonant right the uh the comic vision so Is that the qualifier for whether or not you can change something from the source is whether or not you like it more You like the comic version and you don't want the comic version changed if you didn't like the comic It's okay to change it if you did like the comic. It's not okay to change I'm starting to realize like every time we drill down on any creator ever at the core of every single argument is Well, if I like it more. Yeah At that point, what was the point of any of this? Like why do you why do you dress up all of your arguments in clothes that aren't what they actually are at the D Why do you pretend to care about mechanics and acting and themes and messages? It's just what you like and then they will be they would flip it around on you. They'd be like, of course it is That's what it is for everybody Hi, I'm me Let's have a chat It's a storyline that was built up over a much longer period of time And I think that they should have done that with the movie version My general idea is that I'm open to change in a comic book movie if the change works Yeah, but that's a qualifier. That's really flimsy using guns work Apparently not Surely if anything works, it's it's a meaningless qualifier if it works, then there's no problem So like, yeah, of course if something works, you're happy that it's how he's escaping criticism because if he says if it works I'm okay with it. Did Mandarin work? Isn't it called begging the question when you do that? I'm okay with it if it works Like well, but then it it really works. So yes, of course you would be a that's You've just qualified it yourself without letting us know what it is. Yeah I'm not one of the people who's immediately gonna write off a comic book movie because it's not accurate You literally just had Batman kidnap release guns You said it was worse than the comic. Why'd you show a civil war footage? Well, he reckons it wasn't the good decision to go a different route than the comic because Why did he show it as footage for I won't write something off you write that off I think uh, what he thinks of when he says write it off meaning he wouldn't even get a chance He thinks he gave civil war a chance. Oh, you didn't but Civil war had his chance. Oh, yeah civil war didn't have its chance. That's right Movie is from the comic books, but I think it is different in a way that works Fuck He thinks aquaman works Immediately gonna write off a comic book movie because it's not accurate The aquaman movie is very different from the comic books, but I think it is different in a way that works That's amazing. What does that mean? That's amazing. Nothing about aquaman works. Okay. Listen, we watched aqua That's the most recent. Yeah that movies that we've recorded that is bottom two in the dce eu for us I think right have to lay this out quick, right? So we have two movies that are unlike the comics aquaman and civil war and he says civil war doesn't work But aquaman does aquaman does imagine aquaman was one of the most absurd movies. I've ever seen in my life I can't like like It's it's it's it's ludicrous the the film is just I know it's a movie. It's not a film Fuck calling that a film that flick is ludicrous It's Entertaining me that it's it is it is like it's entertaining because you're constantly going what the fuck and laughing. Yes What a film this what an adventure on every level because it doesn't improve superman with any of these changes So aquaman improves aquaman. Oh my god What are you so what is it damning and I got another problem? Yeah, he said it has to improve superman So if I didn't prove how do you tell which one's better or not? Not just that but if he felt that a comic shouldn't be altered because of how perfect it is Then no adaptation could ever improve on it. Like so why makes that a qualifier like I just Oh, I'm so stressful to figure out what the fuck he even thinks about anything It's like, what do you mean when you say all of this? I'm so I don't even know how this guy's gonna respond, but uh let's hope he Doesn't bring out some cringy arguments too. I don't know. I think I think we're at our limit for the day, you know We've come through a lot. Yeah, we're Actually agree with him here, but of course it's all subjective. Wait, do you just say I agree? Okay, well I mean sure. I I don't even know what to say to this Why every level because it doesn't improve superman with like, okay So he's just presented a bunch of different references of him contradicting himself And he's got like this really easy way of countering him Like it's right there text if you you were almost there You can do it. You can do it buddy. Maybe maybe he Maybe it was just the start of the response. I don't know. Let's let's see. I guess Any of the changes the changes make him worse. I actually agree with him here But of course it's all subjective and comes down to your own personal preference. Okay, so you both agree now discuss it Both of you agree Yeah, if you both agree Even if you're both wrong you both agree on the point. So now like could you discuss why that's the case? I was I was gonna say like don't you don't you don't you're interested by this Like both of you have the same metric and you've come out with opposing answers Don't you think that's interesting Don't you want to try and figure it out Superman is stealing bbs because it works for the story they're telling clearly He doesn't and someone can look at the mandarin and iron man three and say I don't like it because they changed the character so much to the point where he could be switched out for any other terror It's not why I think it's shit, but we'll get to that some other day. I guess I'm in three coverage who does And it wouldn't make a difference you could call him Osama and the story would remain the same So that character was changed for the worst and it doesn't help the story at all And that's basically how marcus feels about these two movies He believes that the changes were for the worse So I believe that they were for the better and it helps the story that they were telling What was the point of the whole fucking video if you were just gonna say well, it's really down to what you like Yeah, you think that this makes it worse. I think it makes it better because you said that tomato tomato whatever the fuck Doesn't cover everything I want to talk about I didn't go over every little thing he mentioned and you probably noticed a lot of these critiques have been said Over and over again and not really anything. No, it's really a lot of the same regurgitated shit I don't know what these terrible defenses bring something He says this is a lot of regurgitated shit I'm like I Challenge you text to go through all of our coverage and be like, you know what just the same regurgitated shit Anything. No, it's really a lot of the same regurgitated shit that people have said since these films released and they've been addressed time and time again I just oh, you know what I'm gonna say it. I love that we had that debate with twin perfect because It's just this permanent reference like these smug Man of steel fans Yeah, well you guys are all stupid and wrong and you've been proven wrong again and again It's like the author of those which is why I'm not even gonna try and do it Even though you're right here in a conversation that are disagreeing me with me asking me specific questions because my work speeds for itself However, her to her death of the author The author of those defense videos Had trouble admitting that they were shittily written films Like because he wouldn't he was used to answer it. He did not answer it It reminded me Of when we talked to the janitor about last of us too. It's like, okay, we've got this reference Okay, we've got someone that thinks that the last of us too is good We've got people who think that last of us too is not good And they come together and they they discuss and it's very clear From like I was receiving texts from my brother who never played the last of us part two He said it was obvious which side knew what the fuck they were talking about Well, yeah, I mean it's all about references. It all comes down to references You get them right. You get them all you collect them up It's it's like the groundwork shit, man And like watching a film liking it and then going uh, this is great and then going all the criticisms are wrong by No one's gonna find that compelling Yeah, you're if anything it's gonna make people suspicious like why aren't you bringing up some Because we're at seven hours and 18 minutes and it's just like another fucking long Long stream going through loads of arguments that either attack or defend and going through it takes ages. All right It's a lot wrong with these movies guys. There's a lot wrong But I felt like making this video since a lot of his criticisms seem to be from Misunderstandings that he has about these movies. I don't know if it's because he didn't pay me some of them I'll agree with that. Yeah, some of them Marcus isn't a bright boy But I mean he even gets some things correct. Even he could see why these movies are bad Attention or simply because he didn't care because he doesn't like these movies So I would like to recommend you a few videos that you could watch to get a better grasp of it Nearly all your criticisms for Man of Steel and BVS have been addressed and explained in these collection of videos by Twin Perfect From the characters portrayals and motives Well Recommends twin perfect And I'm so glad we got to talk about him and he just we've covered the first and last in that playlist. They're both Fucking awful and we spoke to the author during the covering of the second one and he put up a abysmal display Like how else could I put it? Well, it was very eye-opening for a lot of people Texts and everyone that watches text. I recommend you check out ethep 124 and 127 We'll go over in detail why you've been lied to Maybe not that extreme, but He straight up said he does it for clickbait. So Don't know what else to tell you There's like Zod the destruction all of it if you want to dive deeper on that There's these couple videos that dive deep into the symbolism as well as another really good analysis But in the end it all comes down to your own preference And I can't make you like these versions of the characters or the movies I felt like this video was just rambling and why you don't like it without actually trying to understand it What the fuck was your video? Yeah, your video was rambles as to that. We just didn't get it and then you didn't even really He just did a bad job. Zach wouldn't be proud Either intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting scenes and motives throughout these two movies But anyway guys that's gonna do for the video. I hope you enjoyed if you did go and drop a like on it Now I'm gonna go play some cyberpunk. Oh wait, never mind. I can't even wash my face without this damn game crashing, man We did it. BVS is dead. Fuck you BVS had a chance. I am so glad to talk about aquaman. Yeah, we're moving on No, I'm excited to talk about those those are great. I love to talk about suicide squad And uh Yeah, I I'm not even sure what's what's happening in terms of that arc But I will say uh to remind everybody if you didn't catch the beginning There is a straw pull it will be in the description It is specifically about what aquaman video we're gonna cover whenever that comes around Because that's gonna be in this arc too. I'm so excited and the way to work is right like whatever the top Results are will go from the top down and we'll stop whenever we can't do it anymore Yeah, right But uh, that is it, okay Wonder Woman Wonder Woman 84 Man of Steel and BVS are all done. He's perhaps not going near them again Dead, all right. They're dead awful films awful defenses of them uh Who knows what's gonna happen next because yeah next up is suicide squad and I don't think anybody defends that film Oh Fun times. That's that's that's that so uh, I don't know if you guys want to say goodbye here. We This will be a seven and a half hour premiere on the boola Have fun with that everybody in chat All right, there's your content Um, are you happy you're making us a dance for you? This is what do you want? I don't know how else to end it. That was epic. I don't I don't I mean what what what can we say that has not yet been Said, um, I hope you enjoyed that stream. We did on wonder vision because that would have happened by now Oh, yeah, that was that was yeah, wasn't that so bad? Or maybe our maybe our minds have changed maybe we've been convinced that wonder vision is actually a seven out of ten Whoa, imagine rating it that high Wow, who would be fucking dumb enough and unable to analyze media so badly that they would give it a seven out of 10 wow, that's that's two points above average impressive Wow, that is very impressive so um I think that about does that Thank you all so much for watching And we will see you on whatever happens next in the efap world of tizmic fuckery Yeah, bye. Bye