 Everybody welcome Steve with 10 books coming at you with father jam bone on we're gonna cover Ignatius spiritual retreats But father first, welcome. Thank you for coming on and Can you lead us off in a prayer? Oh Yes, and I'm a patrice if he is pretty son. Yeah, man They use quick quarter film Sancti spirit to see those tracin locuisti Dano Besson your spirit of rectus apere and they use emper conseratio negauri pe Christum domino nostrum. Amen I'm Maria. That's the plan. I don't stay cool. I'm addicted to Maria. They put a predictors fruit of interest to Jesus And I'm a patrice if he is pretty to Sancti. Amen. Thank you, Padre So a natious The spiritual retreats given from head he was given from heaven, right? Yes, I've seen I remember reading one thing about you remember like the medicans some of them don't think that Dominate got the rosary from heaven now and some carmelites. Don't think that the scapular came from heaven and I've actually seen Ignatius I think that was part of the the movie that I didn't like that came out and I was going where was the Heavenly inspiration of the exercise. They just came up with it. I was really disappointed in that part So yes, the exercises were given from heaven. What power? Why is he's even important? Yes, well, it's very important. I Think it is perhaps one of the most important aspects That keeps us out of the polemics between liberal and traditional You know lat mass no sort of mass It is the thing that keeps us Catholic like keeps us out of the polemics Because it brings us so deeply into our roots. It convinces a soul so thoroughly of the things of heaven That it just it sweeps us away and that's why this retreat Has been propped it up by Pope pious the 11th and December 29th 1929 and is a cyclical Men's nostra. It was an encyclical that commemorated his 50th anniversary Priestly anniversary at the time and Pope pious 11th was trying to promote the spiritual exercises because he thought that it was one of the One of the most important things for the spirituality of the world at the time Looking down a double barrel shotgun of danger that was coming throughout the years coming So anyway It has so much power because it's so biblical without being the Protestant Bible thumping thing. That's kind of false It's it brings us into biblical Perspective of everything brings us so deep into the heart of God and brings us out as saints That's why as I said Pope pious 11th made St. Ignatius the patron of all Catholic retreats And so this might get the Carmelites or the Benedictines or whatever all upset. Oh, what are you talking about? You know, we have our own type of retreat to do But the Ignatian retreat is so specifically it's it's not even Jesuit it's it's not Jesuit It's it is Catholic to the core and it brings us so Directly into contact with the things of heaven and we can explain that as we go along as we as you asked me more questions Is it wasn't it and then today our requirement for all Catholics to do a retreat and went in during the year or is my off on that Well for the clergy and religious. Yes You know mandated. I mean it wasn't mandated for filiety. Okay, you know, it'll be impossible To ask the late to do that, you know, it'll be one of the precepts of the church, right? Oh Yeah, absolutely and the original the nation your treat was 30 days long I've had the grace since my formation in seminary to do eight days every single year since 1989 when I joined Mineri and I've done that ever since And it was only one time in my life that I did the The 30 days and that was two years before our nation And so it was just absolutely heavenly to do a 30-day because you put everything in perspective And it just brings everything to light, you know, so I can't imagine coming out of that 30 days I can't imagine going in for the first week, but then coming out of it being kind of wanting to be hooked back in type deal Yes, and and what gives us a real efficacy is to keep that spirit of silence It's not it's not like you you do half your day normal and then give yourself a little bit to prayer No, it's like it's like going into the desert and just rip yourself away from the world and with a very profound silence and So, yeah Now I've my experience with the Ignatius retreat has always been kind of I would say Prevatic and too modern In other words with a preacher And you have a big group You may say excuse me You may have your your spiritual director there on hand and then but you kind of go through a group Experience like, you know keeping the silence, of course, but then going to conferences, you know all day That's kind of the way it was since the beginning of the 20th century but the original idea of sending nations was to have a One-on-one retreat. I mean the retreating Treat master could have like 10 people there, but then he would see each individual for like two hours a day and He would give him all that he needs to know all his things to think about Give him that on one-on-one basis and then the person will break off and we'll see him the next 24 hours And this will go on for like a whole 30 days I've done that once when I went down when I was in Louisiana I had to do my my nation retreat with the the Jesuits down there and Grand Cateau And there's a specific Jesuit there that I did it with That I was able to trust I didn't really trust too many others there But he was really good because he was an old-timer Excuse me, and he dressed like a layperson and stuff, but he was he had still that spirit of Preaching the horror the hard stuff. It was good. It was a good experience. I Should have a priest like that. I remember going before I moved from Denver I went into this one church that looked like Ikea And I'm walking in and going up way here. Here comes the sermon and he gives a no salvation outside the church sermon I'm looking around going somebody pinched me I Almost gave it went down there game a high five afterwards. That was quite impressive So what can people Gets or what is what would it be the I guess Might be different from everybody else But what is the main purpose for each person that come into a treat that pull out of it? Yes, well the dynamics of their treats are as follows and this is why I'm saying is so Catholic It's not just a Jesuit thing. It's like it could it could be a compromise can go through it And they can experience all they can get from it just by going through it. So It's kind of it's not broken into three into four weeks they call it the four weeks of the spiritual exercises But we can even you know people since we don't do us whole 30 days. We can call it stages There's like four stages The first stage is to lay down a principal foundation. So one wants to get down to the principal foundation kind of asking oneself With a lot of philosophy But with a deep spirit of prayer What is my purpose of my being why am I occupying this skeleton walking around, you know, why am I aren't on earth? What is my mission on earth? and I would just like to point out to you what he says here and it's just one little paragraph But it can it can bring it could spin the retreating into a whole two-day of reflection Just this one paragraph of St. Ignatius says Says man is created to praise Reverence and serve God our Lord and by means of this a safe soul The other things in the face of the earth are created for man to help him and attaining the end for which He has created hence Man is to make use of them and as far as they help him in the attainment of his end and This is the punchline He must rid himself of them in as far as they prove a hindrance to him Therefore, we must make ourselves indifferent and that's the key word Indifferent to all created things as far as we're allowed free choice and not under any prohibition Consequently as far as we are concerned, we should not prefer health sickness riches to poverty Honor to dishonor a long life to a short life the same holds for all of the things our One desire and choice should be what is more conducive to the end for which we are created I mean you take you just break down that that one paragraph I mean you got enough to meditate on for like a century. I'll have a century It's it's just so powerful It's so Militaristic and it goes right to the core of all the truth that the human being can possibly find here Which Christ revealed in his holy Catholic Church Now and then so that so it's establishing the principle and foundation God is my creed of God is my Lord of my God my maker And then I I grow in a spirit of dependence I I I'm like attaching myself on to the original intent on why God created everything It's almost like I'm going to the Garden of Gethsemane the garden of Adam and Eve and I'm in paradise there The Garden of Eden and it's like I'm like reliving those first moments before the fall, you know all the attitudes I'm like meditating deeply Like I'm put my face right into the reality of it sucking it all in And really being retrained to think Be being retrained to think through the faith Through the dependence in the presence of God and to know what all that is to renew all that love that I might miss out through a fall So anyway, so go through that. So that's like the first stage And then the second stage is obviously the fall of man So then you meditate on sin with sin really is and all it's all this brutal reality Personal sin the sin of the angels the sin of Adam and Eve the sin of just in general The consequences of sin. So not only the sin itself Individual sin of personal sin the original sin but also to the the famous Um Eternal truths the four eternal truths heaven hell death And and and so one meditates on all of that In a very profound way and and just to kind of give you an example of that Sitting natious didn't place as one in the contemplation of different scenarios. He talks about Reflect on being entrapped in your own being And you're you're wandering around a whole world full of beasts, you know, what would that be psychologically kind of like consciously What type of fears you would have the type of type of void from any good things you can possibly experience It also brings us it describes hell Like he says using all your senses like your ears your your your Your hearing your sight your taste your smell Be like being in the eternal flames of hell And to meditate on that. What does that mean? You know, all you have to do is just take st. Robert Barla means Treaties on hell and that little that little pocket booklet and just put it in your back pocket Every time you think about committing a mortal sin just pull it out and read a couple of phrases And then you'll get the so it's all this reality said like a reality check, you know, you like seeing okay What is sin throw away all the all the emotional garbage, you know Oh, my uncle Frank can't be in hell and all this stuff. No, like just just Black and white just see what things are we're trying to define what things are And Ignatius is a master at this. He just brings us right through reality and seeing what it is, you know And and one fun phrase about hell that sinning natius says that really is very impressive He says meditate on Because people are there right now burning away in hell right now And they're there And they're burning away But they have these people who are burning right now this second actually committed less sins than I did Yeah, it's someone it's almost like well guys and didn't god have mercy on me and he didn't have mercy on them So it's a whole mystery that he would develop later on, you know about how kind could but imagine people actually burning who've committed less sins that I could that I have already committed I remember the alpha Alphonsus writes about one kid. He was like eight nine years old Who went to hell for one mortal sin died afterwards? Oh my goodness and you're thinking holy cow Yeah, and I think not only Saint Alphonsus, I think Saint Benedict as well talks about that too is about something like that It's kind of scares the the living daylights out of us, you know, if we were to take all that just and in one stride So anyway, so going along quickly. I just got to explain the other two Stages of this uh this thing that's very important um Yeah, it's um and so so therefore one one has that experience of of one's evil and so forth the evil of the world the evil within oneself Then that brings one to all this the goal is not to scare us The goal is to bring us to repentance In Christ so then it brings us to the crucifix It brings us to a soul that's pouring out his soul to Christ and to ask him for mercy Um, and then then Saint Ignatius suggests that at this point of the of the retreat one should make a general confession and so um a general confession of all one's past life because he says In summary, it's not a it's not a question of going in getting all the details Because Saint Ignatius already knows that one has committed Uh a general confession in the past perhaps has confessed all these things in the past But here since things are so intense the knowledge The understanding the gifts of the holy ghosts that are coming upon me and gifts of understanding the gift of knowledge is I'm understanding the eternal truths the way they are And i'm in this atmosphere prayer And confidence in God then my sorrow is an abundance is is extreme In this point so therefore it's a great moment There's a great moment of sowing and reaping and the reaping would be just a place before God all the sins in my life Especially to those who have never made a general confession before Because this retreat was designed for to do it once in a lifetime and that's it And it was supposed to make you into a saint After the 30 days I believe it Yeah, so so then he emphasizes this thing about the um about the general confession And how it helps now since we move on pre vatican too modern Uh, we mean uh that you know So a general confession since your last can your last general confession So if you do a yearly retreat a yearly eight days every year Then you'll be doing it um sort of last 12 months since I last Did my general confession do another general confession or if the holy ghost can move you maybe some things that God has Picked up new rocks that we can look under One might be inspired to just say some more stuff even though one's made a general confession in the past So with that renewal one faces uh across roads one's like in a fork in a road And and therefore the soul is now asking itself, okay now that I've I understand exactly what What God's plans is over over our my life Over the world I know that I failed and I know that now that God has forgiven me And it is an tremendous experience of God's mercy at this point There's a there's a certain love that just comes over the soul Just profound that you normally would not experience otherwise It's a very deep into the sacrament of confession into the into the depths of meditation In all spirit of love and humility And so the soul is saying, okay, I can go out and conquer the world now. I'm renewed I have this tremendous gift of God's grace and so forth But then the soul says, okay. Well, I'm called now to the heights How how can I maintain this purity of mind and heart? And how can I continue to persevere in it? Although I have to go back to a broken world Uh on monday morning, you know So so therefore the retreat said, okay now we need to go And you need to fill yourself with Christ. Christ will be your way your truth in your life, right? So Christ will be the way you will be the vehicle by which you can succeed and maintain the fervor and become and become a saint and so therefore the soul then Is presented with the incarnation of God. So first of all first before it goes into that third stage It it um it really wants you to get an experience of trust in Christ that Christ is calling you the call of Christ So therefore the temporal king So that's one meditation to introduce you into the incarnation reflection In this temporal king, you have to understand the times of sitting nations. So therefore he's a very He's from the 16th century. He's all about chivalry. He he himself was a general or whatever He was an army army officer before his conversion And so he understood all and plus at the same time there at that that century They were kicking the muslims out of all of spain And so so therefore st. Ignatius He kind of paint paints this picture Of christ the temporal king like he he says imagine a king that's so full of majesty So full of pomp so full of self-confidence and he's out in the balcony. He's addressing the christian peoples And he's he's he's I mean, he's gathering all the commitment of an entire people no matter what walk of life They're all like hanging on his every word And and he gives you this image. He says that's christ christ is doing that right now He's he's attracting you to this this this tremendous Enterprise that cannot be left aside and if you would leave it aside Then you would be feel guilty for the rest of your life You know, it's almost like he's using all this all these These chivalrous things to really but but not just trying to trap you Into something that he believes in but that is absolutely real I mean this god is just about to come out of heaven He's about to drop out of heaven And he's going to shift all the paradigms of all everything and you're the protagonist with him He's trying to get you involved in it. So that's a very beautiful Reflection the incarnation is also very beautiful because he he also paints the picture of the times during the times of jesus When jesus came You know romans chapter one the state of the world at the time of christ coming so All this evil everybody's running away from the laws of nature Everybody's their own anarchists Everybody's doing this and that and the other so even uh, there's a book out there too that Before I forget about it that people should read and that's by um father harden It's called the retreat The retreat and uh, it's it's a good book because it really stays focused on the original intent of sitting natious I think it was published back in 1980 even though it's a post vatican II book, but it's really well done Because like I say I've been doing this since 89. I didn't I never heard of father harden until late You know later on. Yeah, he was great in general Yeah, he was just good in general But but what surprised me was when I when I finally understood got that book and I read it for the first time This was like in 2011 I was like, wow, that's everything I've been doing like, you know, because we were pretty faithful to we stuck to the original Ignatian spirituality So anyway, the incarnation um, so he describes in romans chapter one and and Describing all this evil And it's like there's a council in heaven between the three persons of the holy trinity And they're describing what they see and they says we see white men. We see black men We see people in war. We see people in peace. We see all these people doing all their things Doing humdrum things doing extraordinary things. They're all they're participating in the life of society and they're all going to hell It's like it's a very powerful description. So they're watching the news recently Yeah, he says they're all going to hell but John chapter three verse 16, right? God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, right? So God loves the world so much So among this holy trinity and inside of a council Discussing what they're going to do about the situation, right? He's just using human human terminology for it to describe the reality Uh, then the whole the second person holy trinity is being sent for this purpose And what's so dynamic about this is that There is a very specific thing Of sitting nations The triple petition becomes so important and he says from now on The rest of this retreat is going to be contemplation of christ to receive these graces and it's going to be To acquire an intimate knowledge of christ who became man for me So this knowledge And through this knowledge without any options is going to bring me to an intimate personal Profound love for him This love of christ that will bring me Then to a third step That will bring me into a total and absolute following of christ a commitment to christ So that triple thing based on scholastic philosophy from st. Thomas Aquinas Is absolutely important In order to get the fruits of a true authentic retreat because it's just It's analyzing the truth about man, right? We cannot love what we do not know And we cannot follow what we do not love, right? We have to love something first someone first In order to commit ourselves to that person. So it's going very deep Into the very nature of man And revealed in christ And so therefore So that the the petition the the pleading So even with squinted eyes and clenched fists begging for hours and hours and begging that god will grant this grace to be able to understand It's not just a book Understanding It's like the biblical understanding. So you're actually really touching the thing you're touching this reality That's that's what it's being all about It's in spanish We have this very good because in english we kind of lose it when we say i want to know christ But in spanish they keep it because it's it's the latin way of saying conocere conocer in spanish Which means it could mean a various different things it can also it means intellectual But also goes beyond the intellectual to the tangible It's tangible like for example if i say i want to visit a city in english i would say i'm going to visit kansas city But in spanish you would say voy a conocer a kansas city i'm gonna i'm gonna know it So i'm actually gonna keep my my feet are going to actually touch, you know the street there Yeah Yeah, that makes a lot more sense than just yeah, I see where you're going with that Yeah, so so so this is the power behind and this is this wraps up the whole experience of the spanish Medieval mysticism right st st teresa vabala st john lacrosse st ignatius loyal and many others It's it's it's so it's so crucial to the entire because you see the protest is going to exploit this really easily You know and because everything is just feeling so we're not talking about a feeling good thing Um So therefore catholics kind of shy away from that type of baloney, right? We don't like that type of stuff where we kind of you know feeling goody thing No, but it's it's It is an intellectual thing But then it goes quickly into the heart and moves it drags the heart with it it becomes operative It's it's a knowledge that that is enticing to the very core of our our being our nature It's a it's a knowledge that's true knowledge Um, but it it's a mystical experience. I don't know how else to say it But it's very very profound and it's very authentic and And that's that's that's what's being pursued here in this stage And and through the life of christ, this is what will will will be the thing so then there's meditations on on The birth of our lord so nativity of our lord And it's very very graphic. He wants us to be graphic That's therefore the the type of prayer here and for the rest of retreat is contemplative Meaning that you use all your senses to bring yourself into the prayer And the prayer of the heart above all above the prayer of affection Uh and not just verbal and vocal prayer and then coming to the true resolutions from there So this will bring it and he wants us all to meditate some met and some things in the life of christ So therefore, you know, you've got the baptism. I'm skipping a lot of stuff here, but I'm going quick So so you have a lot you're going through the life of christ with the same fruits in mind with the same Things that we're praying for um, and then that brings you to And right there with the um the passion and death of christ So this will be considered like the the the fourth like I third Second part of third stage and then the fourth stage the spiritual side is sort of death A passion of death of our lord and the resurrection of christ Okay, so then so then you um And then here is like you put what we spoke about entering into the incarnation into the life of christ put that on steroids It's like he's he's like using the phrase of st. Paul. I am crucified with christ I am risen with christ, but that width is not just uh A sinseless word. It's like you're there. He wants you to be there And you experience all the great sorrows of christ. You go deep into the garden of Gethsemane You go. It's like you're there living it out first hand Through through god's grace through this contemplative prayer And and all of this is meant Okay, let me back up a little bit And then see you imagine so that that's kind of the contemplative part of these four stages With inside the second stage, you know the the life of christ stage Then you have a couple of meditations that are very important the two flags are very very important You have two standards. So the city nations are preparing the mind For the battle to come to become a saint to become one with christ So he's preparing the mind So in other words, he's trying to show you What the two armies are like there's nothing in between. There's no mediocrity. There's no a catholic light No, so Yeah, it's either it's either all or nothing. It's either You're for christ or you're for the devil. There's no in-betweens there And so didn't he he kind of explains the psychology of what it means to belong to the army This is before the age of psychology, right? So we're not talking about psychology the way we mean it today, right? We're just trying to try to get into the mind of one who's trying to make an option for life that means everything Um And so therefore the devil is he's like has his has a little pep rally So he goes to these images of there is an bebelong having a powwow with all his With all his warriors And he's saying go out to the whole world and recruit And go and recruit and use the methodology you know, which would be To bring them riches and and that would be like the bait and bringing them in Then you give them all kinds of honors And then this will be this will where pride will be born and from pride then you can conquer them in every other vice possible Now now jesus he will use the recruiting method totally different when he's rallying his troops He says you go out and you presented them poverty right detachment from things that that holy indifference that we spoke about at the beginning Go out there and convince them to give up the the riches so that they could really propel themselves In loving dishonors and loving sacrifice and mortifications and so forth And this brings the soul to an act of humility and from humility if the soul then makes an act of humility truly and permanently Then of course This will open a door for every other virtue possible And every virtue that that soul is called to right and so so therefore he's really preparing the mind He's trying to say okay If you're gonna get involved in this enterprise, but we want to make sure that you know What's at stake here? What's the battle? Okay, and then there's another another meditation the three types of classes of men Which is the los tres binarios in the original medieval spanish of city nations mean literally means the three Three stooges or these three types of men Uh and and these these thrice three types of generosity are very very important Because what it's trying to do is Is trying to tell you okay The the soul has inordinate attachments from ones because of one's fallen nature Okay, so I have inordinate attachments. He uses the things that riches his whole thing was about riches and poverty Right, but you can apply it to anything across the board any sort of disorder Uh, so therefore you have an attachment to a sum of money that you acquired unjustly Well, uh, the soul wants to get rid of it, but it doesn't know how And then wants to he wants to do it in order to be good with god Wants to get rid of this inordinate attachment to the sum of money And so therefore you have three types of ways of doing it The first way would be I really want to get rid of this evil within me I want to I want to conform my life to christ. I want to get rid of the um unjust acquiring of this money, but Death comes first before I do anything before I actually make any improvement So, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, but not really when I just give myself over to just coasting along in life Right without doing anything without putting in the means in order to affect it And the second type of person is the one who goes midway. So I really want to I really want to improve I want to be a saint I want to do all this stuff, but then I'm gonna make god come to me You know, I'm gonna make I'm gonna have middle ground with him. I'm gonna make a deal It's like a compromise, right? So you're gonna he's gonna go to a certain level, but when I when the when the going really goes tough He's gonna give up the project, you know, he's gonna kind of give up And then you have the person the last type of person who makes an honest decision And it doesn't mean that he's gonna become angelic He doesn't mean that he's gonna get rid of totally throw out all of his inordinate attachment But it means that he's going to be sincere with himself And he's gonna do everything possible Knowing that he's gonna act as if the the D inordinate attachment was undone And he's gonna make these these steps these strides Uh Trusting that it was already undone and he's gonna remain himself indifferent to whatever god may say About the whole issue So in other words, the next signatures had the had the the the visual that the soul The person was attached to a 10,000 Ducats. Okay And he acquired it in a dark alley He saw a suitcase and he saw oh, I got this money all of a sudden it's not his and he's trying to get rid of it But then he says there's gonna be such an indifferent to the whole matter That he's going to be satisfied with ever god decides Whether he decides me to give up the money Or if god finally decides is okay. Well losers You know, you find it you keep it, right? So god might say, okay, you might keep that money But as long as it's long as it's god's will That I'm gonna keep it or not keep it, you know So therefore it means that I'm just available. So that's the whole word It doesn't mean that I'm gonna become an angelic saint when it comes to my faults and defects and my inordinate attachments But I'm gonna be so extremely open To just plan my life moving forward the way god wants it Right and then there's whole there's like little follow-ups about that about how he's gonna do a colloquy on this and that and the other to to get that optimal Disposition of the soul the availability of the soul there Okay, and then the last one of And then we'll finalize the whole thing here without that last question Would be the three types of humility Right, and it's also here again. It's very very beautiful because So therefore saying nations earlier was preparing the mind for the mission or the lifestyle with christ Then he was preparing the heart the generosity And he's preparing the heart again with the humility The three modes of humility so the first mode was That I humble and abase myself as much as is possible for me In order that I may obey and all things the law of god our lord Accordingly, I would not give consideration to the thought of breaking any commandment divine or human that binds me under the pain of mortal sin Even though this offense Would make me master of all creation or would preserve my life on earth so he says That in other words all of this bow down as it is I would not break any of the commandments. I I prefer death Then to commit a single mortal sin That's the first degree of humility and he says this is this is so essential that we cannot even be saved Without this minimal level of humility And then he says the second way of humility Is more perfect than the first He says I am possession of it in my state of mind is such That I neither desire nor either prefer to have riches rather than poverty to seek honor Rather than dishonor to have a long life Or rather than a short one Provided that here be the same opportunity to serve god our lord to save my soul And nor would I for the sake of all creation Or for the purpose of saving my life consider committing a single Vino sin So the second second degree of humility is that I would prefer death Than to commit a single vino sin willingly a deliberate vino sin And then the third so if you thought that was You know And then it's sort of third the third level degree of humility is the most perfect. He says And and this exists when? The first degree and the second degree of humility is already attained and possessed Okay, you already have to have those down pat first And the praise and the glory of divine majesty being equally served I desire and choose poverty with christ Rather than the riches In order to be more like christ our lord When I choose reproaches with christ the suffering rather than honor And when I am willing to be considered as worthless and a fool for christ Who suffered such treatment before me? Rather than be esteemed as wise and prudent in this world And there and there you see the tremendous It's like don't try this at home type stuff This is he even puts notes in there saying that you know, you have to be chosen for this You have to discern about it And this is a whole another thing like if you want to ask me a question later about discernment Because the sermon for sitting nations is so important not the pope france's discernments But true Ignatian And I mean just imagine that it's like You know, yes Fire me and where I can be destitute, you know, I could have my whole family in destitution It's almost like this is almost like the longs of lines of thought that he's actually Discretely suggesting which is so like don't try this stuff at home stuff. It has to be something where it has to be A tremendous manifestation of the holy ghost and it has to be abundantly clear Um, and it's it's not so much that I'm searching for it, you know, because I as a as a father And as a husband and a family, I do have to Provide for my family, you know, I have to pray for my family. I have to make sure that family succeeds So this stuff I'm not I'm not looking for this just to kind of To mimic The life of christ in such a degree But don't worry even when you're providing for your family You will find abundant amount of possibilities of being humiliated for christ as every husband and every Father or family knows of the different points. But anyway, that's the going beyond the point So anyway, that's in a nutshell is what I had to say about the dynamics of all the retreat So if y'all ain't hadn't done the retreat yet, you can I don't know about you, but I'm ready to go to one Yes, sir I've met many priests who knows they've been the father's Retreats and they said it's changed their lives so Should it should this be kind of like a A gk gesture model of anything we're doing is we're doing badly He don't care what retreat to go to as long as you go to a nation style. Is that kind of like the thing? You know, I wouldn't even go that far, you know As long as these dynamics are being taken place It doesn't even have to be a nation retreat, you know, I'm saying like these dynamics of profound encounter with with how How does god think of evil? The profound love that he has that he actually gives himself to me right now It's through the incarnation That he's with me. He has my back. He reveals himself So all these essential elements of christianity As long as they're there who cares about all this red tape stuff of an inatious Retreat, you know I'm saying so that's why that's why I love it so much because it's not even Jesuit It's just it's just like throwing yourself into the biblical times. It's like becoming You know a joseph of a patriarch or becomes a saint paul like you live that life So basically like your daily meditation just do that part Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah daily meditation. I mean every retreat is going to have that aspect to it Anyway, unless you're a kind of yoga style stuff Talk about the sermon I'm always one of those to ask I remember what was that what was that there was a sermon that father did it was on Ignatius How to make a decision It was one of the things was asking so many people about the two ideas And another one was with what would you do if you saw yourself come up on the street? What would you tell yourself in that situation? I remember telling my spiritual director don't ask me that question Yes, yes, no this the sermon of spirits is so Important and I think it's beautiful But it takes a while to kind of for it to set in because it is kind of deep, you know And so you have to have got a good spiritual director in order to really kind of make this thing gel One who knows who they're talking about so here here's the gist of it. So he gets kind of two descriptions of discernment And by giving some definitions first to kind of define his terms So the first thing would be For though he recommends these rules, which is the rules 313 to 327 of his Ignatius spiritual exercises manual that he wrote And So he directs a certain amount of rules for beginners Those who are beginners in the spiritual life or beginners in the retreat. They don't really know much about the spiritual life And he gives another set of rules Um for those who are advanced more advanced And their spiritual experience Um, and so here here's kind of a nutshell How this works So he says, okay, let's first of all define our terms. So First of all, there's an evil spirit And there's a good spirit He says, what are these two things the the evil spirit is either the devil or disordered conscience Or anything that's anti holy anti, you know anti catholic Anything that that brings me to god direct, you know, truly and really So it could be any any of those things could be inside of myself or it could be the devil that's himself So that's what's labeled evil spirit And then a good spirit is god And that means, you know, the holy trinity doesn't mean the muslim god and so forth. It means, you know, the holy trinity Um, it could either mean the angels the good angels guardian angel and so forth saint michael and all that Or it could be the mind and the will guided by divine grace You know, so So that's that's what he labels a good spirit Now he says, okay now now within a mortal sin How does how do these two spirits work on a soul when someone finds themselves in a mortal sin? It says ordinarily the evil spirit ordinarily suggests pleasures And fills the imagination with the sensual And delights keeping them In their vices and increasing the number of their sins So that's how the evil spirit works on the soul of someone who's in a mortal sin state of mortal sin And then a good spirit when someone's in a mortal sin the state of mortal sin How does a good spirit work on a person for him the discern? He rouses the sting of conscience, you know, like beating them up, you know slapping around sort of feet Uh, and he fills him with uh remorse of conscience So they'll basically and that's all we can say about those two things That's like the basics of the basics, right of how we should discern With something's from god or something's not from god Um, it's pretty easy when you're in a state of mortal sin Of how to of how to get out of evil and get to the good, right? So Uh, it's very basic it is but you'd be surprised how people would even linger around doubts with that, you know Now especially nowadays and then he says Okay, now what happens when someone goes to confession and actually puts himself back into a state of grace, you know Living a life of grace. I'm not thought about those who are kind of like the Revolving door like going in and out of mortal sin every two minutes, you know Going to confessional No, I'm not about someone who's really serious and it's actually starting to simmer down and settling down in life Trying to live up, you know, live a life of grace excuse me so Uh, the evil so he says, okay Well, how does the evil spirit work and how does the good spirit work with someone who's in the kind of a newly founded spiritual life? What an evil spirit starts to vex and harass And stings and afflicts with sadness to the soul Like he's missing all this stuff in the past So he that's what he does. That's his main thing to do is to just kind of Get the guy uh restless And then the good spirit is it encourages Strengthens sometimes as a gift of tears Um, there's sorrow for sin There's peace their inspiration That makes the burden's light and removes obstacles Right to get to the next virtue to get to make virtues easy and so forth So there therefore he said that's a very important definition to get the basics down for discernment And then he goes to the net. Yep. Go ahead. That was funny. You mentioned tears I just heard a lecture and uh They talked about Gregory the theologian talking about another former baptism. He called it the fifth Was the person that cried tears baptized him every night Is soaking in his sheets? Oh my goodness. That's a pretty good idea Yeah, hopefully yeah, and that's important because um The next the next concept he he defines us his spiritual consolations and Desolations that's very important for him and that'll be very important for discernment later on um He says that spiritual consolation says what is the spiritual consolation? He says Interior movement and not to be mistaken for feelings mere feelings But interior movement stirred in the depths of the soul and flamed with love for its creator and lord So love anything Not for its own sake But only in relation with his creator and lord this could be sorrow for sins meditation and the passion of christ And tears could come Now it's very important. I mean people this is kind of a break away from modern thought because people say well How could I be consoled if I'm sorrowful? You know because that started the nation consolation is very different from the way we think about consolations In other words, it means anything that brings you to the truth anything that keeps you in the truth Anything that keeps you in christ and uh his church Right anything like that even if it hurts that's considered a consolation It could be a it could be our type consolation or it could be a even our own Desolation the way we think about desolations, right? so um So why do we have to go through desolations? So the last desolations Um, hold on. Oh, yeah, and then we got to define spiritual desolation um It is the opposite. He says of spiritual consolation It's darkness of the soul It's turmoil It's inclining to whatever is earthly the restlessness Disturbness temptations and so forth any lack of faith any lack of hope any lack of charity slothful Teppid sad separated from his creator. So anything that goes along those lines would be considered um a spiritual desolation Okay Would there be a time limit and all that or was that just be like any just you wake up and you just feel like and you're in a rut and Would that count or something else? Well, it does count as that but now he's he's really just trying to lay down a basis the foundation of of states of mind Rather than just little moments But it would not it's totally exclude little moments Because it could be it could be a benefit because because he he's with the understanding that we are always going through Depending on what how God governs the soul We're constantly navigating through consolations the desolations back and forth frequently even he would even say But everyone there's everyone goes through it differently. Okay, so it's not like one one size fits all, you know um, so here's some spiritual pointers with this about this He says try not to make any decisions in a state of desolation Uh when one passes from desolation to consolation frequently back and forth So try to stay grounded on your previous resolutions when you had a longer mind frame of spiritual consolation You know, um He says why is this because he says the good spirit leads in consolation And a bad spirit leads in desolation And so that's very important, you know, it's very important So they say that is he he's not saying every mathematically 100 sure every time But but there's a general pattern that he's noticed Is that this is the way the evil spirit works? In other words, we want to follow the good spirit, but avoid the evil spirit and so therefore We we want to be anything that brings us to the good spirit In our decision-makings And our choices in life, you know, whether you're choosing your spouse Whether you're choosing a vocation Whether it's religious life or married life or whether it's moving away with your family to go go to another state Uh that you're perplexed. You don't know the answer. You're trying to figure it out You're trying to talk it over with your wife. You don't know if I should make the move or not You'll be amazed how this way of discernment could actually clarify a lot of stuff For any given soul about any choices, especially the beefy choices that that people have to make that are important that life changes They're important decisions for one's rest of one's life. They'll be Paying the consequences for the rest of one's life So it's good to be Attracted to the good spirit And avoid the evil spirit when discerning And so what to do? um He says that uh to intensify activity against desolation So that's so when one finds himself in Desolation One should increase all the activities that goes along With a consolation So in other words, you know, we said that when one is bombarded by temptations And one is is disturbed and saddened That could be like dragging the soul down Well I'm gonna be doing my meditation Doing it as if everything was whistle clear, you know as if I was in a state of so the more we have this type of Going up against the grain The more I'm gonna be so open to that good spirit That I will make always the right choice And the god-based choices that I need to make with almost a razor sharp precision Now that's the ideal right It goes even trickier as you get along because the devil is not going to give up right But so so that's the principle Make sure you have all the consolation stuff going on When you are overwhelmed by desolations when you what when you feel like giving up Keep at it keep going back to the drawing board. Keep at you. Don't give up your prayer Don't give up your rosary. Don't give up your your stuff your virtues and all that Because you're gonna prevail it's gonna get stronger. You're you're clinging to the good spirit and therefore god's will And I think that's a little caveat that I maybe forgot to say at the beginning a premise He says that god's will is everything for us. It's a matter between life and death But we're not as privileged as the blessed mother to see an archangel appeared to us to tell us, you know You're gonna be this or that so they said that's why we have to discern because we don't have Yeah, we don't have powers to have visions of the angels telling us what we're supposed to do at every two seconds therefore To have that To to be when god's will we have to go through these discernments of spirits Because it's the only way that we're able to actually Recuperate peace and be within god's will right Okay, so another thing is he says that That know that god permits the bad's spirit to tempt us many times With god's grace we can resist the evil spirit Uh and also know that love is hidden And also know that god's grace is sufficient for salvation So even though it might be frequent, especially when one is progressing in the spiritual life becoming holier and holier God may permit The evil spirit to attack us more All of these things that we spoke about either the devil or the things within us the passions The the lower self coming up and trying to bite us again So we need to we need to persevere in patience He says know that In desolation when we're in a state of desolation know that the consolation is around the corner Fight in desolation as if you were in consolation kind of explain that just now He says and then we say asked he asked the question. Why do we have to go through the desolations? Why do we have to do this? Uh the spiritual desolations He says at times it's our own fault He says that tepid and slothful and our attitude and piety Could cause it if we're just being mediocre We can we can cause it through our own fault Sowing what we reap in this area Or it could be that god wants to see how Authentic our love is in other words. He's testing our love where our love can come out where it's not going to be all easy He rewards rewards are usually awaiting those who praise and love god Even though they are deprived of consolations And that's why god were because it'd be greater rewards, right? And then the last point of why he says that god Permits it is that god is trying to teach us Trying to teach us Not in our power to attain unto consolation and their benefits and privileges He says the gift of tears for example is just that it's a gift So sometimes he would withdraw them so that we can value them more and we can we can have a humble spirit Like we're not going to be like these masters of oh, i'm always in consolation, you know It is and also our spiritual life cannot be based on vanity or um, our own glory I remember there was a quote by uh, that st. Anthony is in one of the books. I want to say it was the one by uh Who's the saint that wrote the book on it was a st. Anthony? uh I'm sorry guys. I just went stupid. Anyway, it was quoting about the anthony's getting pounded by demons And anthony close our lord. Where were you? Where were you this time? And his response from god is I wanted to see how you could fight Well, that's a cool statement Yeah, it is absolutely and it's so it's so wise right you would never want to put uh, uh a veteran quarterback out there if he's not veteran You wouldn't want to put him out there if he doesn't know all the the tricks of the trade and so forth And you can only do that by going through it experiencing it experiencing the opposition to be of endure Okay, well, um Yeah, this is it. I'm getting to the the the very essence of this discernment stuff because it's very useful for people It keeps people at peace. I think He says there's a result he said he has a word about evil spirits. He says that He gives some examples. He said the evil spirit. You have to watch out for him because he's like a woman. He said Uh, he says this is before the time of the feminist movement, you know Weakness Right, so he's like she kind and if he is weak Comes out she comes out in her rage And victim then so the evil spirits just like that So if you're not strong If you show all your chinks in your armor you show all your uh You know just kind of giving up and being like a bowl of jello wobbling around Then the evil spirit's going to gobble you up, right? I think saint threesome avala has a lot on that too She speaks about the same thing But yet the if you're strong You put him you put him on his on his heels. He starts running away. He starts to flee um, and so And then he's they say even uses a uh an image of a um a lover Who tries to seduce a 15 year old girl, right? He says once once the father hears about it her father Then All his success dwindles and fades away. So in other words, this is a little aspect about spiritual direction Right, so the more you you get you can tell your father About the struggles that you have and the thing the dangers that you're coming upon and all this stuff The lesser the evil spirit will have grip on you. It'll kind of let you go Right the more you kind of because you know if you let a father know If the girl knows that her father knows then the lover's Going to go move on he's going to go go look after somebody else go after someone else instead of her Or he says that's all talk about general and army who tries to attack on all sides and gets he gets to the weakest point um And when he discovers that Weakest point then that's when he pours in all his army and that hole in the gap Of the walls of the the battle Um and then then lastly He just speaks about um The rules for those who are in an illuminative stage right those who are more advanced because that's that's when he starts getting Tricky, I think that's when a lot of people has problem. They have problems On how to discern life. You know a lot of us are kind of far along You know, we've been we've been at this for years trying to do god's will and we've had our experiences of resolutions and constellations spiritual constellations But then there comes a point where The real battle starts happening, right? Uh He said okay with the characteristics who are an advanced or saintly person of the good spirit and the bad spirit How does it how do they act? So the good spirit Is god or the angels and so forth or the grace within me Uh the acting upon the soul to give true peace and banish Sadness but the but the bad spirit the evil spirit or the demons fight such happiness from the good spirit And so he sets up traps And subtleties he can even take on the good spirit appearances That's that's a novelty to this And deceptions and fallacious reasoning so so therefore the discernment He says look at this. He says God alone Can give true joy It's god with no previous cause so when When all this peace comes upon us when there's really no previous cause for it You can know that that's coming straight from god Okay, so when you're in this spiritual consolation And it really doesn't come from any cause like there's not a dramatic thing that happens to you with all of a sudden It's like it's organic right like that word organic It's like it's like, you know, it's coming from god Um and that's a very important point to really check the pulse right when one's saying okay What I'm making these decisions what I'm make am I at peace with this or that and the other It's important to see okay. Where the cause is coming from, you know Now the devils can give sadness Without any previous cause so if god does it for peace without any previous causes come from god Well without any previous causes uh Sadness is is present Without any cause and that comes from the demon that comes from the evil spirit And you'll be amazed how the things can change so quickly um You know, I remember one person was going to go to a retreat And um And it was like he was on a fence. He didn't know if he wanted to go on a retreat or not And then uh, then all of a sudden like on his way. He finally made the decision that he was going to go And all of a sudden he started having all his friends call him up and just started cursing him out, you know Like like just screaming at him like what are you going? What are you doing and the wife started calling and started screaming at him so he it's like Like these are like no previous cause like people don't usually don't behave this way with me. He said All of a sudden just came out of nowhere, you know, just like all these all these uh attacks They were attacked. It was your devil was trying to discourage him from going. Oh, wow And and so the devil was just just just all this this from no previous Uh cause all of a sudden had all these flare ups. You couldn't so he knew Explain to him later That that was not from god. That was god wanted you on the retreat. That's why he He he tried to discourage you through all these screams of of your loved ones, you know, he's probably gonna send those kind of calls Yeah, so he's kind of spooky stuff, you know It could be but that's the reality Um, and so let me see let me see. I think there's one couple of last points here about that um So both the good spirit and the evil spirit Can give and parentheses a consolation to the soul at this advanced age of the spiritual life But it's very important That there is a different purpose behind the consolation So in other words Sending nation will invite someone to think to think through the beginning The middle and the end Of what this consolation is giving me with this idea That's supposed to be filled with peace and so forth Analyze it all the way through. I mean It is just obviously clear post Vatican II Uh, I mean There's examples everywhere would not to do Like for example, I don't know someone coming up with the idea of uh all the girls right all all the girl boys So the all the girls who are trying to be boys They they are there and someone coming up with a good idea. It's it's actually nice. It could be very peaceful It could be actually very good. It could be um something that We would want to look into because the girls Get very close to the Eucharist. They're participating in a very special way and they themselves personally Become very consoled can probably grow in grace and increase prayer And who knows becoming none afterwards or whatever? All because she was closer to the altar But then okay, so that's like a short term consolation Like a like the devil like a smokescreen But then as we keep analyzing it all of a sudden The boys are walking away because they don't want to be with girls because we know how all the psychology at that age works They you know, okay, the girls want to run everything. They can take care of it. I'm I'm out, you know Sort of the boys disappear Like my boyhood my boyhood parish that same thing happened We used to be uh 90 to 100 120 130 boys All the boys we had to look school pegged on to the parish When my my pastor retired He said do not do it overnight The new pastor brought in all the girls and the boys were gone to this day. There's no boys and you still have the school pegged on to the uh to the church And there's no so anyway a lot of vocations come from that lot of lot of priestly vocations come from altar serving Yeah, so that that's the whole question The nitwits have to have to analyze Uh, okay beginning Middle and after so if we look at all the way through we have to see that the end is definitely from the devil Because we're losing all the priests and only pre only boys can become Men and only men can become boys. I mean uh become priest and so therefore this is a fallacy This is a almost a On abuse on the girls trying to trying to train them the desire for priesthood By being so close and so so you can see that's something that started off Very very it's a great idea. It's a spiritual something good to come out of it and all of a sudden it bites you and it turns into hell I mean it turns into The obvious right So anyway, that's basically about the discernment of spirits So you got a book uh, I got the pdf for uh What oh you got just one chapter right Is it more of a because I haven't been able to read yet. I've been doing so many of these videos Uh, is it more like a kind of like we just did a guide about what a spirit What is Ignatius to retreat or retreat in general? Is that kind of the gist of it? No, well, we're certainly obviously I'm still trying to get a publisher for so I haven't even started the process yet but um, what I'm what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to my audience is kind of a person who's aware Of the spirituality already of the dynamics and the nuts and bolts of the spiritual exercises But It's kind of a tool for them to actually do the actual contemplations. It's like bringing the person into the meditations Now I do describe Methodology, you know, just to say okay, this is what the fruit we're looking for But my main focus is trying to put that person into prayer So it's like a it's trying to get them trying to bring them into a retreat So in other words, if someone wants to actually do a retreat and doesn't have anybody to give it to them Like you have to get a person. He's nobody's giving it to him. Would that person just take the book Go off in a cabin by a lake somewhere for eight days and do it by themselves by going through the by going through the chapters You know, oh very good. Okay. Yeah the actual prayer. Yeah. Yeah Well, finally, this was a fantastic, uh, that this we went about hour and 10 and I felt like it went about 15 minutes So that was thank you very much for the whole hour already. Oh, yeah, wait, we're passing hour. That sounds great I wasn't going to stop. Let's go up. Keep it. Let him go Can I get a can I get a final blessing and uh, let's you go Yes, thank you so much, uh, steve Uh