 Yeah, welcome back. This is ThinkTech. I'm Jay Fidel and we're talking about community matters this morning with Alan Oshima, the just retired CEO and president of Hawaiian Electric. Thanks for coming down, Alan. Thanks, Jay. One correction. I'm still kind of around with the company's advisor post to the end of the year. Excellent. Yeah. Excellent. That's wonderful. I'm happy to hear you're going to keep out of trouble. Yeah, I need to. A lot of people are trying to get me into bigger trouble, but keep praying for me. Yes, of course. Well, first, let's talk about the news of the day. We always talk about this with everybody, so I'd like to talk about it with you. Sure. Can you give us your thoughts, you know, your characterizations and expectations about the coronavirus and how it will affect our world and our economy? Well, you know, of course, it is affecting our world and our economy, and Hawaii is going to have a special place in that, given our real dependence on Asia and the West Coast primarily for our tourist market. So how that recovers and is going to make a big difference on our local economy, and it won't be rapid. So, you know, we have to really, really pay attention in Hawaii, I think, to all of the social services and our nonprofits who are going to be the safety net. And with the tax changes, you know, that kind of eliminated a lot of charitable donations and tax deductibility, the nonprofits were already kind of taxed. And now they're going to be even more so. So I'm really, really concerned about that, as are a lot of people. And I was really proud of our company, our charitable foundation. I just saw, you know, I used to hit that and A.J. Hale Gao is running it, and he just informed me that our charitable foundation is going to be doing sizable donations to the United Way and all of the islands and food banks. So, and there's going to be a need for more. You know, everybody's going to have to chip in. Well, as we were talking before the show, it's kind of a test. It's a test for, you know, the corporate world. It's a test for every individual to test for small and medium businesses to see how they conduct themselves here in terms of protecting the staff, in terms of protecting the public, such as they have contact with, and in terms of, you know, carrying on, not letting the economy dry up completely under them. Great concerns on all those things, but I think in Hawaii there's a certain sense of togetherness that maybe will help, and that people, companies, individuals will see, you know, into the future and figure out how they can positively, constructively collaborate and participate so as to ameliorate the problem. Yeah, you know, it's strange why I'm way off the charts as an optimist, so I always try to find some good and bad. And, you know, the country's the divisive nature of our politics and how we treat one another. I think we're just really going to have to come to terms now and really do what we do in Hawaii, and everybody's got to hang together to solve a common enemy and solve the problems for everybody with equity. So I'm kind of seeing some of that. We'll see how long it lasts, but we need it. We need it. Yeah, we need it. Well, let's talk about your career. You started as a lawyer, got into, I guess, regulated sectors. Then you became an executive, and then one day you became the CEO and president of Hawaiian Electric. And I'm wondering, you know, looking back down the trail, that's what the purpose of this discussion is, really. You know, how important was it that you had that legal experience beforehand? Well, I'm very important. Although I tell, I'll just be very honest. I told my kids, don't be a lawyer. Be a client. There you go. As long as it's not in the criminal area. Because lawyers work, as you know, Jay, I mean, we're both lawyers, and we work so hard and really trying to solve problems and trying to get the clients to what they want to do in a legal way. And, but you know, the good thing about the law is that it teaches you a way of looking at problems and really addressing the needs rather than just giving the law. So I used to tell my old law firm, the new associates, don't answer the client's questions because they're asking the wrong questions. You have to understand what the client wants to do and needs to do. And you have to chart out the questions and you have to ask the questions, the proper questions to get them there. So yeah, being a lawyer helped me do the job that I think the board asked me to do at the company at the time that we were facing. So it helps. I'm reminded of Stanford and design thinking. You know, they kind of discovered it maybe 10 years ago, but the law is new before that. The law is new that when the client walks in your office, you have to decide what the questions are. You have to, you know, consider the options and you have to make recommendations as to which option is the best and how you execute that option. It's a basic design thinking and we knew about it a long time ago. Exactly. And it's not just today's solution, but you have to be looking at short, medium and long-term and you can phase it, right? So those are all the kinds of things that we're doing at Hauani Electric. And you know, I think, yeah, being a lawyer helped me. Yeah. And going to Hastings helped you. And a year ago or so you got this fabulous award from, well, I guess it was from Hastings, huh? Yeah. And everybody came down to say hi. I really enjoyed being there. Well, thank you, Jay. You know, the thing about that is that Hastings used to be Hawaii's law school. It was the closest before Richardson opened and there were even forgiveness. You had in-state tuition at some points for Hawaii kids. And so there's a payback to Hastings. There's a large number of lawyers in Hawaii and in the judiciary who got their legal education at Hastings. And so this was give-back time. So there's a scholarship fund for Hawaii law students at Hastings. And that dinner was used to raise funds for that. The previous dinner, Connie Law was honored and raised money. And we're going to do a few more just to get where I think about $500,000 now in the Hastings endowment for Hawaii students. And we want to get it higher because, you know, it's so expensive to go to law school now. Oh, yeah. You know, when we were going, I mean, on the GI bill, it was next to nothing. It seemed like a lot of the time, but in retrospect, it was peanuts. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's plus the cost of living is so high, right? Sure. Well, you know, I forget who made this statement recently is, you know, we don't have enough doctors, especially now in this crisis. We have too many lawyers. If only the lawyers had gone to medical school, we'd be better off. Well, the ranks of the lawyers are kind of dwindling, right, as the market changed. But, you know, there's so many lawyers in town who don't practice law. You know, just you and I can name them who are in business or in the community organization. Successful. Mike Broderick runs the YMCA. I mean, so the legal training has applicability in so many, so many areas. Is that design thinking? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I just wanted to look through your, you know, your time at Hawaiian Electric. I remember we met and we did a think tech show. Just at the time you were appointed, I was very gratified to be able to talk to you. And I'd like to sort of take stock of how it looked to you at that time, what your vision of the job was going to be, and then how it all proceeded. Was it as you expected? You know, I had no expectations. I mean, that's part of the problem I have going through life. I'm not really a planner for myself. So, I just wanted to be able to go in there and make a difference. And we were faced, as you know, right after I was appointed, the next era deal was announced. We had to see that through its conclusion. We had to plan for either eventuality approval or no approval. We were faced with the really burgeoning market for rooftop solar. And the company wasn't quite equipped to be able to judge how much we could actually add to the system without downing the system. There was some science involved. So, those were the two big hot items at that time. And through it all, I mean, so the next era deal took 20 months, 20 painful months to come to a conclusion. We had whole teams working with next era, with the PUC, with stakeholders. And then when it was denied, we were ready to go on our way. So, we were prepared for joining mixed era or transforming our company. So, that's when the transformation really had to start. And so, we reorganized our company up for new business opportunities per the PUC's directive, by the way. And we got better science through national labs and were able to connect more rooftop solar safely, improve our system so that people got informed about the status of their applications more readily. Now, it takes about two weeks. And it's an online process that you know exactly where you are. You can't proceed unless you have all the information there. So, there are a lot of changes that happened in a very, what seemed like a long period of time, but it was quite condensed. Well, some of them are very challenging. I know how much oxygen the next era deal sucked out of the room. And it put a burden on the utility that was really, I think, unfair. I would have approved that deal myself. I thought it was a good idea. But, you know, at the end of the day, there was so much noise over it. And you guys had to address all these questions and hearings and processes for 18 months. I'm sure that was hard on you. Anyway, you know, the other thing I remember from our discussion that day was that you intended to change the culture to some extent within the company, you know, to sort of make it more collaborative, more customer oriented. You know, the same kind of thing we talked about a minute ago is kind of the aloha, the aloha infusion into the company. Can you talk about your expectations and how that evolved? Yeah. And that, by the way, I think the board had that expectation of me, given my community service kind of background and connecting various groups in the community. When I, you know, when you look at a 126 year old company that's primarily engineering, I just saw in the paper, was it today or yesterday, a picture of Ronald Reagan sitting in front of a room air conditioner with the then president of Hawaiian Electric in 1959. It's like celebrating a room air conditioner. In 1959, everybody's in a suit, right? So what we had was a company that was truly a monopoly, did things to support the state's economy based upon what was high tech at the time, you know, a room air conditioner. Since then things progressed so quickly. And so customer expectations changed, government expectations changed, the environment had to be addressed. So the company was under siege by all of the expectations. And so what the company had to do was change its culture and not be the 1959 culture, but come up to date. And so that was the challenge. And I think, I think we were able to address that. And I'm really confident that our company is on the right track. Scott Sue and his team are really doing the right things, I think. And there's more to do, you know, and but it was building that trust among the executives, managers and employees. And now we're now embarking on a code of excellence with our union, working together for the value of our customers and for the safety of our employees and seeking solutions together and the theme is better together. So there's phases of how we transform and really trying to become more external, work together within the company, but for everyone to understand the vision of Hawaii. And we're so necessary to accomplish Hawaii's vision, right? So that was a quest. And it was kind of gratifying that we did as much as we did. We didn't do it all and there's still more to do. Yeah, but you know, I was seeing that. I interviewed a lot of people from Hawaiian Electric over the years and I saw that evolving. And it was actually coming true just as you had, you know, stated an expectation at the outset. So I could see that it was working, at least from where I stood. Well, that's nice to hear. The other interesting point about is the technology changed while you were in office. The first thing that comes to mind is LNG. LNG was sweeping the country with all kinds of technological developments that minimize the damage to the environment. That allowed us to move the gas across the country and across the world. And I'm not sure what your internal decision was about it, but it seemed to me a good idea to do LNG because the world was doing it. It was a lot cheaper. It was a great bridge fuel if you want to look at it in those ways. And you got stopped short one day. I guess it was an energy conference where Governor E. Gay announced flat out that you didn't want that. And that had a tremendous dampening effect on it. And I have always questioned whether that was the right thing to do. But that's just one example of all the technology was moving around you, including all the solar technology, the wind turbine technology, technology around geothermal technology, everything. And I think that sort of was a major piece in your administration, wasn't it? Yes, we spent millions of dollars trying to find a way to safely bring in LNG with the least damage to the environment to stabilize our bills, clean the air in Hawaii as a bridge fuel to 2045. It's in our PSIP and the regime changed here, changed the circumstances. But it's just another example of how we are regulated. We have many masters and we have to transform and we just have to move on. So there's no sense in whining about it. We just have to find other solutions and move on for the good of the state. Well, you kind of anticipated one thing I wanted to ask you about. And that is the electric company is really sweet generous for the non-lawyers in our audience. That means in its own category. And the electric company is a profit corporation. It's publicly held. And by the way, there's not many people you can find on Bishop Street to say that they have been CEO of a public corporation, a national, international public corporation. So that is something I really wonder how you sleep at night when you're the CEO of an international public corporation. Well, I want to make sure that HEI is the publicly traded stock and we're just a principal part of HEI. But yes, but Rich Wacker on the bank and I as subsidiaries. Yeah, we worry about all of that along with Connie and the board and Scott now. I don't worry anymore. That's right. Probably sleeping better. I am. So, you know, but the thing is that you're a public corporation. You have a duty to shareholders, you have a duty directors to make a good return to do the right thing. At the same time, you have the public because you're selling a product to the public all day long. And this is real sensitive because this product affects our lives. Every one of us all day long, we walk in and make this complacent assumption that the lights will be on. And when they're not on, we have a bad day. And finally, you have to deal with the regulators and the legislature. You're under the microscope all the time. Correct. And I think what it shows is that this is an animal that is sui generis. This is very hard to navigate this and I think the relationship, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the relationship over your administration changed and improved. From the time you started as a regulated company, subject to public opinion and all that, until the time you ended, it seemed to me to improve. It seemed to me to be kinder, gentler, better understood on both sides, all sides of the equation. Tell me if I'm right. You are right. And it's not only due to our efforts, it's due to the PUC's recognition, D-bed, governor, consumer advocate, all seeing the need that, you know, we say a lot now in our company and our stakeholder group in Hawaii, right? We're a kakou. We all have to work together to the common goal. And there's no denying that we're all seeking the same goal. And that should be carbon neutral and making Hawaii sustainable. So we're going to have differences along the way as to what comes first and whether affordability is more important than technology. But these are things we all have to work out together. And the relationship with the regulators and policymakers is so important. And Wall Street watches that. So we are a high, high capital intensive company. About 400 million a year in new infrastructure and re-upping and refreshing and, you know, renewing. That requires access to capital, equity and debt at good rates. So we watch that. Tainsi Kimura, our CFO, Greg Hazelton, the CFO of Hulani Electric Industries watches that constantly. And so the tone of the group matters to investors. Are we all in this together? And are we supportive of keeping the company whole, earning a fair return as required by law, but also serving customer interest and state policy? So that's the trick. And you're right. It started out rocky with the new administration, new PUC. But then we quickly came to terms because we realized we're all on the same page. So I can now have lunch with Randy Iwasi. And it's no longer, you know, accusatory on either side. And we can talk about common issues and common goals for the state. So it did improve. That's a beautiful thing. Alan, we're going to take a break, a short break. And in the break, we're going to play our list of underwriters. And full disclosure, one of the various underwriters on the screen will be Wine Electric, which has supported us over the years. And we are very appreciative. So let's take a break and you'll see the list. Alan Oshima. He's here today with us here on Community Matters. This is Think Tech. I'm Jay Fidel. We're talking about a retrospective of Alan's tenure as the CEO and president of Wine Electric. So Alan, you know, one of the questions I wanted to ask you, and I do see you from time to time, you know, our houses are not that far apart in our neighborhood, is, you know, how this has changed you. You know, it's been a while. It's been five years. Yeah, five plus, yeah. A long time. Longer than any of us expected. Not me. I knew it was a long time. So the question is, you go through this and it's like having an experience every single day and watching all the balls in the air every single day, doing all these initiatives, watching all these, you know, people expect expectations from so many people. So the question is, how has it changed you? And how did it change you in some profound ways? Can we be introspective for a moment? Okay, sure. Can you help me with that? I don't know that it changed me. I've always been, I wanted to be an architect. My high school counselor taught me. Funny things. So did I. So did I. Have something in common. Exactly. So, you know, I kind of like to visualize things and build it and see the outcome. So I liken my job at Hawaii Electric kind of satisfying that part of me, realizing what it should be and then using all the components to design and having a really great team to put it together. So that part was gratifying. You're right though that the constant pressure, because it comes from so many sources, right? Legislature, administration, federal, PUC, consumer advocate, customers, industry, technology is wearing, it is wearing. So by this time, if I were in the office I held before, what is it, March? I would have been to the East Coast probably twice, to the West Coast several times. I'd have trips coming up, attend industry meetings, et cetera, et cetera. Daily my calendar would be from 7.30 till 7 p.m. So immediately after stepping down, I felt a great relief. Noticeable change in how I can see the day now and really enjoy different aspects of my life. So yeah. I don't know that I discovered anything. I just enjoyed the moment and I'm going to enjoy the next moment. That sounded like a recap of your whole career. It was from one thing to another like that. I imagine you had the same experience each time. There have been several really interesting steps. I'm glad you didn't tell me that it made your hair white, because I know your hair was white before you ever started the job. Yeah, yeah. Other things made my hair white. I think genetics has something to do with it. And age. So let's look forward for a minute. So Scott Hsu inherits the post. He moves on right in the middle of the coronavirus, which has got to be constricting in many ways for any company and including a company with as many obligations as yours. And so I guess the question is what is the condition of the company now as you leave it to him? And what are your expectations for how it will go forward with your consultation, of course, as a consultant? Yeah. So it's in great shape. Still a lot of work to do. Things that we had planned to do, of course, got put on hold during Nextera or whatever. We finally completed our one company initiative. And so we are working as one company across five islands. And Scott had a big part to play in that as well. So that we implemented our ERP system with the SAP software. Big, big job. We got it done on time, on budget. That gives us a common database platform to operate the company across five islands. So now we can bring efficiencies. We can bring operational efficiencies. We're working with our union for the same goals. So Scott's on path to deliver some of the things that the foundation was laid. And now we're going to have to deliver more value to our customers. And the team is ready to do it. So we have a good bench. That's one of my proudest accomplishments that we have a local develop executive team. Not necessarily born here, but on the executive team developed in Hawaii. And so there's good succession in the company. And to ask you about this earlier, throughout a good part of your career, you've been on foundations providing value, providing generosity to the community. And I guess you're going to continue to do that and you're going to continue to urge the company to do it and to provide, especially now, to provide whatever it can provide for the benefit of the community. Tell me about your thoughts. Well, there's no urging necessary. This is one of the most giving cultures in Hawaii. When we have work projects with the community, we have to turn employees away. We have to do lotteries. We match gifts. You know, we're very community minded. And that's throughout the whole HEI family of companies. So there's really no urging needed. I think the direction is going to have to change now with the upcoming economic situation. So some of the projects we normally support may have to go by the wayside as we take care of what's really needed for the next year or two, I think. I'm honored to have you on the show, Alan. Alan Oshima. Well, thank you, Jay. President and CEO just retired, now consultant for Hawaiian Electric. In many ways, the face of Hawaiian Electric over all these years, the guy who really speaks its mind and its heart, thank you so much. Thanks, Jay. Thanks for the white hair. Aloha. Aloha.