 Collision insurance on our vehicles. We just paid 6,000 for Jeff was asking that question to Pierce what we do is we pay first and then we're going to get reimbursed for it. I I assume that's the way It's working because in her little calm She mentioned that the question $100 deduct I see I missed the little note Cover all but $100. Yeah, okay. No covered it I think so, but that's what she's wrote in the little note stick it says co-insurance to cover all but well, there's 40s, maybe maybe a thousand deductible. Oh, okay We don't value our priest cars on the HR. It's still better than 6,000. Yeah So what happened to the car? All right, Scott Okay So I will call the meeting to order at 7 o'clock We cannot do the minutes yet because we're waiting for we will not have a quorum of the folks that attended the last meeting in the December 4th meeting and I We don't have the December 11th meeting minutes yet either. So we'll go on to public comment There's anyone in the audience has any public comment to make at this time on anything that's either on the agenda or not on the agenda This is your opportunity to do so seeing no one who wishes to do so we'll go on then to the Jacob property transfer and the will list when this key Valley Park District and Nick Warner the executive director is when I speak we have John Hitler our Bullistan representative as well and perhaps and I know that Melinda Scott is here as well. So perhaps Melinda can lead this off with Just a general discussion of where we're what we're at and we're gonna hear tonight So as you know a 29-acre parcel of open space was donated to the town last year We have been contemplating the idea of having when you ski Valley Park District take that parcel and develop it into Public Park as one of their portfolio or in our in their portfolio of parks And the Conservation Commission has heard from them on a number of occasions and has discussed this and is strongly in support of Having the town transfer the parcel to the Park District and having them use their resources to develop The parcel as as an open space asset so Nick and Would you like to proceed with your? memo to us Yes You know the bottom line is we've We've done quite a bit of Work on our end and with the conservation board in terms of you know the due diligence. We did a natural resource inventory There's obviously still issues around Access to the site Whether we're gonna be able to secure a Place where people can park cars and access of whether that's the part of the management plan for the parcel there's you know a lot of questions to be answered, but From a conservation standpoint it rates very highly and that's really the main Filter that we go by and the other filters that our board Looks at and we haven't made a final decision on this because You know we rate you know can we manage the site can we is realistic for us to do it is Does it fit our mission? Does it have the high enough conservation value? And it meets all those criteria. So the board is very Supportive of us pursuing this project, which is all I've asked of them at this point Obviously, it's been a it's been a conversation amongst a relatively few amount of people. So we feel pretty strongly that We'd love to have a robust public Conversation about this because we understand they could think we still be issues or reasons why this would be a good Or not a good idea. So In consultation with Melinda and Eric from the conservation board and we talked a little bit about and I developed this memo sort of laying out a proposed process Which is also reflected in Rick's notes. It's suggesting a motion on doing a public hearing and I think it's a public hearing. It's also Putting things on our web page. It's you know talking to the media. It's a number of ways that we want people to come back to us and and And express their opinions about it and we just haven't done that process yet. So we feel pretty strongly that that Needs to happen Before we can go to the next level, but we're feeling pretty strongly that we understand that we could manage the site that it fits Our mission and that has high conservation value the in Anticipation that was transferring the land to the park district as well Okay so Board has questions I'm just looking for my Okay To two basic questions. I Apologize I have not read this in the detail that I probably should have So could you summarize the I note in the memo it talks about Conservation values of this site are ranked in the top echelon I'll do my best although Remy Cretol and our staff wrote that and is it you know, he's he's the author and did the deep dive, but It's riparian property to start with that means a lot of things in terms of vegetation and habitat Directly adjacent to the Gnusky River or something that we lean into it. We're very we value pretty highly It is from a recreational standpoint. It's also a Very unique spot in that three neighborhoods are directly abutting it Which means we think right off the bat if we put a developed trail on there It's gonna get a lot of use so that you know, there's two pieces to it We also use a thing called bio finder, which I suggest you check out online It's the agency natural resources has a very sophisticated program where you can You know, it's a mapping program you can go to a site and they have overlays that look at everything from rare and endangered species to wildlife quarters and You know floodplains wetlands so on and so forth and this site ranks very high So, you know the shorthand, you know, right away. We looked I see how this ranks high And then Remy did a deeper dive and it's a it's an interesting report Those natural resources attributes if you will yes, not gonna be negatively impacted by the potential public use of the land primarily I assume as walking type trails that that's at the core of Our whole challenge Is our challenge, but no, I mean it's a good challenge. I mean, you know, it's already being used I mean, there's informal trails already on the property. So yeah, it's not it's not like it's an undiscovered property But we have found that when you Get people into a property in a responsible developed way in a well-maintained site that you develop a Constituency that helps you protect the property. So there's there's the trade-off You know, we we have a long history of getting people into areas where they would not be able to before through boardwalks and trails and so forth and The more people responsibly enjoy those sites the more we get the call saying hey someone You know is hunting out there or you know left a bicycle website of the trail So it's there's the trade-off and you really hit the nail on the head Okay, it is not a site that is so we do have portions of some of our properties where we just don't let people in There's not many of them, but there are you know doorway on really jumps out as being it is so wet and densely Rich in endangered Species and habitat that just letting people in past where we do is not is not a wise thing But this this site it's it's upland. So it's It's pretty easy to be able to develop a trail system in there I'll take a couple bridges to get in there because you go over streams to get to the site And my other question had to do with the it's actually in your memo Nick where it talks about the Reversionary I say that word right versionary clause. Yeah, all of our properties at some level and in very different ways Have some kind of you know get out of jail-free clause whereby if we don't perform or You know we go belly up or there's some you know major event that the town could take Repossession or transfer to another like organization Where would that clause actually set in what document would it set it would depend on how we negotiate the transfer with the city I've seen it in a bunch of different forms. Sometimes it's in a conservation easement I think initially we're not looking at formulating one. So maybe it's a side agreement to the transfer Sometimes it's a an agreement with the landowner that's that's recorded in Municipal records, you know, we have for instance, we have a view shed agreement at a Colchester Pond We can't block the view of a neighbor that donated land to us. Yeah, okay Sometimes it's under a land of water conservation fund Rules which are federal rules that prevent you from developing a site and keeping it open for public recreation So it really differentiates, but I think with this one and to be clear I haven't talked to our attorney about it. It would be a side agreement that would go with the transfer I think initially and then if if and when The town and the park district decide it's appropriate to put some kind of permanent easement on the property Then maybe it could be laid out in the easement as well In our easements typically, you know, they're held by a third party typically a land trust or the ACB and They dictate that you have a management plan that you developed that follows the the easement We're doing sort of backwards. We're doing the management plan first and then I Think what we'd like to do is be able to get the property up and going manage for a while and have After our initial community discussion on whether it's a good idea Have a discussion whether it makes sense to put some kind of permanent conservation easement or whether it's it doesn't add Any particular protective value and I don't really have opinion on that yet because Not that far into the process Next question I suspect I know the answer, but I'm gonna ask it And I'm actually aiming this more at Melinda. Melinda. Is there any any concerns you have about? You know this how this is going to progress forward in terms of the necessary documents that would whether it be a side agreement and Easements what have you is there any anything we should know about about how that would move forward or concerns? You have about it moving forward Does that make sense first of all Kind of You're supposed to say intuitively. Yes, I don't have any concerns And anything we should know about you know Perfectly find answer You know we'd be happy to provide samples of language because typically you know we borrow from other documents and create You know you need once so I don't need to see those I fully trust you know those who will be involved in that It's just more as we're I assume tonight We're going to give some sort of a sense of concurrence at least of moving forward and I just like to know Are there a concern staff have about you know some of the pitfalls that might happen as we are Yep, those are the right questions that you're asking and I don't know what they are So I have to ask yes I just looked through my nose. I didn't have a lot, but I noticed there are multiple access points for the property potentially Yeah, it mentioned potentially. Yes only potential. Well, you know for instance You know a potential idea would be a small parking lot in the back of the church property And then you build a little bridge going over another great spot would be the the global foundries All these require permission and you know by the landowners and potentially easements There's also you can what's at the end of the back of the streets. I thought there were three right Right one of them what's the name of that? Morgan Morgan Parkway is kind of a natural. I mean there's actually an informal path with a little badly built bridge back there There's a substation there that presumably is owned by the town I have no idea what the issues would or wouldn't be in terms of Using that as an access point, but you know right now you can just go right down Morgan Park Parkway It is key getting access sure we have access and you know then my questions just revolve around I mean you you were talking about the habitat and I noticed it's Adjacent or part of a bigger much bigger deer yard. Yes, and it was an otter an otter area and then So I assume whatever we do it will be not impactful to those that's the whole idea Yes from poor for animals and then The the last thing was there a bunch of you mentioned a bunch of invasive species and then the ring how you would remove them Yeah, is that is that your team or your staff that would do that or is at the town? It's it'd be a it's a combination it's it's a It's a never-ending battle and and so It to be clear We're not going to be able to remove every bit of invasions that you know that basically it's the entire understory Vermont has those that stuff is nasty. I just removed a bunch in Heinsberg and it is nasty stuff But but that is I mean the management of that would become our responsibility we'd a lot of that work we do with with volunteer groups with YCC with You know, there are a lot of ways that we recruit people into it is very time-intensive But that would be something you would plan. Yes, that that would be our responsibility. Yeah Yeah, my biggest concern would be access again just to make sure yes I assume based on what you said the neighborhoods because they abut They all have access so at a minimum you're we're going to get a lot of use from those neighborhoods Probably don't have anything right. There's already a neighbor who has a trail cut directly Back here it's a which is great. Oh, you have your own park, but I mean I'm glad you brought up access because we're not comfortable taking Title to this until we at least figure out and I bet but we're not at a point Where I can pick up the phone and have that conversation because we're not far enough into the process It's a little bit of a catch-22 so Part of the reason we're here is not to ask you to rule on anything but just to Give us a sense of whether you're comfortable with us moving forward the process. I think that's Good way of the process looked It looked good. I mean Melinda does a great job. She knows how to get the stuff done and get it through our board so Further questions the thought I think is tonight to At least have a consensus that we want to go forward with this and Get to a public hearing and there's a Suggested motion to do that Okay, I'll move to schedule a public hearing to receive comment on a proposed Land transfer of the former Jacob Parcel to the Manuski Valley Park District I've made them seconded is their discussion on the motion Very none. I was in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Good. We've done that and you're still up for the your budget discussion So Presumably you guys have our request It is more than we asked for last year The good news is that we have Through our contracting work, which actually has expanded. We're doing some stuff with you guys now in some of your parks But primarily with South Burlington and some with the city of Manuski We've been able to expand our fee for service work and so Even though our budget increased by 6.4% I think we're asking the towns for anywhere from four and a half to five percent increase for the next fiscal year and We do You know just to be clear the last couple of fiscal years were flat and in retrospect I would have liked Have asked for a percent Each year just to make it a softer blow in fact that suggestion was made to me by the folks in Essex, but Overall I can tell you that relative to other organizations nationally that do this work I think we're very much in the low end in terms of What we need to operate our district But I would welcome any you know any questions, you know Provide a copy of the budget with all the line items and so forth and you know most the increases personnel and Cost to do in business We do we did hire another hourly employee that we've kept year-round in fact, it's Remy who did that Natural resource inventory, but he's also he helps he runs our summer camp in our winter camp He works on our crew and he does contracting work so He'd already been with us for four years starting out as a college kid and then an AmeriCorps and then a crew member in it and a camp counselor and so Little less than half of his time is being covered through Entrepreneurial means he's bringing in money as he works so we felt and He knows it's a bit of an experiment, but it's really worked well for us Because we're a small organization and he just knows how to get stuff done So, you know the bottom line have had to simplify the increase in our costs We did add a person to our organization, but we've also Increased our our contracting which is something we're going to keep ramping up incrementally over the next couple of few years There's a real unmet need that towns have to to maintain their conservation areas, so we We definitely have a niche that we could if we had the resources and more equipment Now we could expand pretty substantially, but we're doing incrementally to make sure it fits our Growth are you saying you went from two to three full-time? Well, actually we had three full-time It's myself at Lawrence Cody who is our programs director and business manager and you know 12 other things and then we had Tim Larnet who's been our longtime park manager Superintendent actually not part superintendent and then we hired Remy Cretol last year Who's a full-time hourly employee? So we have three salaried employees in one hourly That's why the is that why the budget went up 17% and Oh, no, the yeah, yeah, primarily primarily because we hired Remy Yeah, we also will that's also balanced with the fact that we've increased our programs So we have a jump in anytime Yeah, we also hire seasonal crew to help with that manage the parks from like the spring through the late fall and then we also hire several camp counselors to help run our summer camp programs for eight weeks in the summer and then we have an America or Environmental educator that sir through the Vermont Housing and Conservation Board and we contribute to part of their Living stipend and and they serve with us for an 11 month term And they do our after-school programs and our summer help with our summer camp as well. So so we increased You know the salaries because of adding on Remy is the additional Full-time year-round employee, but then also as our camps expand we need to hire more people to help cover those And those other things must be under I'm assuming they're under staff salaries temporary or yes. Yeah Those didn't go out much at all. I mean those went up 1.7% It's you know, it's primarily Yeah Are the are dips are the temporary workers do they have any benefits? No, they did no health benefits, but you know, we give them days off and You know, there's certainly under workers comp and all that but they're not they're not benefits Benefits are for just the the four Yes And then Remy So I presume that every municipality has been asked to go up Based on yes formally you've got here. Yes ours. I think it's gone up like $2,000 1951 yeah, yeah, I knew you'd ask so I had a written down Which isn't too bad and looking at The any projected budget the real increase is the salaries are anything else is sort of either Post to be in this level funded or gone down You're on salaries. I was thinking more of all the rest of the expenses that you guys. Yes They look like they're most of them have decreased at least a little bit Plan for the worst and hope for the best not nothing flip but It's but what? Yeah, we've been able to we try reduce costs at every at every turn so Yeah, we've been able to Based on the history over the last few years knock down some costs in a lot of areas You're right. I just noticed every it looks like every line on him except for salaries went down. Yeah a little bit Can I ask just just on the benefits that the the lead staff? How do you set the benefit levels and and is that? Just done through your organization or you have a personal personal policy, which is You know very similar to a lot of municipal personal policies and the board determines what the levels of benefits are Basically, there's an annual allowance for for health over and above, you know, we need to pay into Then we got basic eye care, which is actually very cheap and sure basic dental. Yeah Is there a notion or a policy for what percentage, you know, the The towns are asked I guess that The the employees, you know yourself and the other employees pay versus What is funded out of There's no no, there's no Policy that connects you mean how much how much the time are we is is I'm trying to think what we call ourselves the District the park district does the past park district pay a hundred percent benefits 90% of your benefits and you contribute 10% or well all the percent and you contribute 20% Not based on percentage. It was based on right now. Just like a dollar amount that was based off of we're right now looking at Doing some updates to our personnel policy that'll be happening this this year But they were for at least like the health insurance It was based on a dollar amount based on the premiums at that time And I believe it was a percentage of it But I can't think of what the percentage is off the top of my head because it in the personnel policy It's just a dollar Amount and it covered a Significant portion of the health insurance, but the employees do contribute. We do contribute Yeah, we do pay as a portion out of pocket We pay for eye care 100% and We just get a good plan through our through the Vermont League of City and Towns who holds the insurance Yeah, and then dental is covered I'm just asking because you know, I wasn't looking at our own staffs The good policies and you know and then I look at with our residents have to pay So I'm just trying to make sure we have some equity in What we're doing good question and we are reviewing those put that Paul our whole personnel policy right now for the questions on the budget for Well anything I see the in your memo talks about the conservation Commission strongly supports The district and recommends the town allocation be approved or included in the budget anything else to add Okay Good answer again If there's no further questions, then yeah, I don't really have a question. It's just a comment. I'm sorry I can't let it go by I just wanted to note that This budget assumes that there is no change at all and the formula that they use to Distribute that is cost It's been a huge part of our discussions at many many trustee meetings both in open forum and executive session and It's it's unique it is unique to Williston that there are issues that have been expressed, but we also Have always totally respected the point of view that the equalized grand list is a is a difficult measure to Conceptualize and use but the concept of it is to Have relative affordability between towns and that's the attempt that we've tried to do with the formula We've looked at different modes using poverty levels using just the commercial grand list and you know, I think Our board is willing, you know is we're going through a lot of changes But we haven't come up with a different funding model that my board buys into and also if we changed it There's also that the realistic concern of other towns not buying into a new funding model. So We feel we we have done Just about everything else that we need to in terms of our relationship with with the town here But that particular issue. I don't think the board I mean jump in I would just say we've ran different scenarios using different equations and In the end the difference and total amounts Doesn't vary that much. And so, you know, we're not talking about huge swings from one time to another by using different equations so Just to be clear if it was based solely on population There would be a swing what you're talking about is trying to take population and add some sort of affordability Correct. That's where Yeah, and it's it's not it's not like we feel the issues over. I mean, it's just the opposite I mean, we were I frankly we were all really gratified by the vote last year But we didn't feel like it was you know, it's like I told Rick it wasn't a victory It was an avoidance of something that would have been really bad if we Lost the vote because we've we felt like was a vote of confidence, but it is how these Entities are funded and Rick is an expert on this and I've learned a lot from him You guys are under a lot of pressure from a lot of regional agencies who fund themselves in a variety of different ways and We get that so it's it's It's not like we exist in a cocoon and we're the only ones we you know when we started this thing We were probably you know one or two regional agencies and now you're probably dealing with Demands and different funding streams, so it is a constant curiosity and goal of mine to figure out ways that 20 years from now I can look back and say hey we have a system that made the park district solid over the long term I think the Formally, we got to continually look at that and always do a self-investigation different ways to do it There might be there might be some idea out there that hasn't been expressed yet that could really work and We're focused on making sure that we're bringing the service to our communities that may have been lacking before and increasing our contracting keeping ourselves efficient and increasing our programming and And that's worked well for us in terms of the amount of income that we've been able to bring in Without sort of dinging our operation in terms of our ability to maintain our own assets So it's a long way of saying we don't think the issue is over, but we have not in after really pretty intense Conversations about it. We have not come up with something that we feel is a good replacement at this time I'm up what you've just said in one word No Just wanted to be clear. Yeah, but I'm not dancing around. I mean it's it sounds like you are dancing around Well, I'm not I just it's not it's not knowing that we're gonna and that we're gonna abandon the issue It's what I think about every single day professionally is how are we gonna be sustainable financially in the long term and I You know the way we're set up now. It's it's a year-to-year political process and I feel that there are things that we can do In terms how we build our capacity over the next decade that could put us in a position where a lot more income come in from different sources I just I don't mean to be sharp and I apologize Get something out of it instead of just having money go But I want to be clear in my view this This relationship is not something that should be counted on if this if this issue does not get serious redress And I don't know how else to say it and not sound aggressive So I just wanted to be clear anything further If not, thank you. We will be looking at the budget to the next number of meetings and Yours your request is right there as well. So it's not if you want us to come back. Thank you We'll do that. Good. Thank you your time. Thanks So let's go back now that we have a quorum all the folks that we're here for the minutes December 4th Is there a motion to approve the minutes of December 4th 2018 motion to approve subject of modification? It's your second Page one page two Question of the budget review the next to last bullet it talks about it rejected 3 million plus to be raised by taxes for an estimated tax rate of 0.2724 per 100,000. Isn't that for a hundred? That same thing Following sentence 262 side 5 Wouldn't that be interesting? Yeah Anything else on page 2? Phase 3 We know other corrections Those in favor of approving the minutes of December 4th 2018 say aye. Aye. Aye opposed and what abstention Terry We're running a little bit early, but perhaps we can go on then to the sidewalk made winter maintenance requests And Bruce I presume you're presenting this Okay, so I'll have the memo written on this subject for this year. There were four four requests for plowing this year And the four sections were rated using the policy that we have Excuse me for sidewalks The first section is a section along still water lane that's owned by the town This is the end of still water lane that we do own which is between Talcott Road and Zephyr Road at this point It's the section we built a few years ago to make that connection through there. So that's the one section We didn't talk about that last year because it wasn't made too late So after we did this, but I've gotten two requests from the same person for that area for that little section And that then that link I would say should be included in our plowing of our sidewalks Next year when we take over Zephyr, which we already decided we were going to plow But Zephyr didn't end up getting the top put on it before this winter. So they're still maintaining the path through Zephyr Road It goes from route 2 to 2a at this point But next year We will be Maintaining that in this section would make the connection from Zephyr over to Talcott and Talcott's part of the area We plow already also So we'll just make the connection between those two The next request and none of these are in no particular order, I'm sorry these are in no particular order I just The next request is from Meadow Run and Whitewater Circle homeowners association This section only really meets two of the criteria in our From our policy And at this point And that's the cost of removing snow from this section of sidewalk reasonable compared to others They'd just be plowing the sidewalk. So it's not a Big deal there. We do get near this area because we do out on 2a, but we don't go into this neighborhood itself And the sidewalk is constructed to public work standards So at this point we're not recommending that that get added to the plowing for next year the third request is from the Hamlet I Think there's even been some I've been out this week. So I think but I think there's already there's even been some more Information or letters are requested have come in for that section But based on running it through the criteria It only meets two of the Criteria as well And they are it's constructed to Town public work standards And even the other one Yeah, I'm not you know, I said it does but it depends on what we want to really talk about as being Commercial areas and what kind of commercial areas we want to talk about things connecting to But the sidewalks through there do have some connection because there's some commercial properties as part of that development They're not drug stores or grocery stores or those kind of Places their hairdressers and you know some other businesses along Zephyr Road there So that one is not being recommended at this time and the fourth is from Michael Lane It comes from the Chatham Woods Homeless Association This request was made at least by at least one Representing the Homer Association though so and it only meets two of the four also and that's as a cost of removing snow Reasonable and is the sidewalk constructed a public work standard and the answer to both of those is yes For two of eight Bruce Two of eight. I'm sorry did I say two of four two of eight? Only meets two of four. Yeah, I didn't say it for We should have said eight. Sorry. Thank you They were all weighed on throwing the whole criteria in the policy so that's the Recommendation at this point the only section like I said is to add still water I Would just put a caveat why you consider this stuff in that if we decide to start taking on much more sidewalk We're talking about buying another machine at this point So just what you to keep that in mind of Third machine. No, it'd be our second machine right now We have a sidewalk machine and a pickup that we use okay, and it takes the sidewalk machine about five hours and Average snowstorm if there is such a thing now. We don't even start doing sidewalks By policy until there's two inches of snow so that's not You know always a case we're making an inch of snow and in a day later two days later get another inch We might go out and do them or something like that Excuse me sidewalks the ones you cover you choose to cover right now in five hours five hours Well five hours with the sidewalk machine in about three hours with a pickup truck, so it's eight hours It's the same person now. I assume the pickup does the like the bike path pick up does the bike pass. Yes anything that's over Well, yeah, it's doing all black top We have sidewalks in town that are from four feet wide to You know theoretically a path isn't considered a path towards eight feet wide So many people including you know the development I live in Have sent in these things and is there any expectation to ever get to The neighborhoods which are most of the neighborhoods in the town like Michael and all these different neighborhoods Where it's basically a neighborhood sidewalk, right? It's to keep keep people off the roads in the winter is Or is that just basically something that we're not going to consider because of the reasons you mentioned? That's it's a policy. That's derived at your pleasure. I used to go by what we have at this point Actually a couple points here first Bruce has been out this week. He's on vacation actually right now, so thanks for coming in And the we did get a request after he left for vacation and it was the heritage meadows So he hasn't seen our president put in So that one will have to come back at a later meeting and secondly You know we can add as many sidewalks as you want. It's just a matter of cost and the costs can be You know Small amount of sidewalks incrementally the cost may not be that great at some point There's going to be a big jump right and it may be soon when we have to buy that second piece of equipment Which is a fairly expensive piece 130 130 to 140 thousand dollars for the piece of equipment The thing that's even a little bit more daunting than that is that we have ten miles of four foot wide sidewalk If we plow four feet wide four foot wide sidewalk We're going to be tearing up a foot of sidewalk or a half a foot of sidewalk on both sides because the plows five feet wide You can't get a four foot wide plow. Oh, so it's old spec sidewalk So the only thing I was wondering is I understand the financial implications and every year We hear a number of these right and I don't know what the policy is in other towns. Should we consider asking the voters what It's worth to them to Maintain sidewalks in the town Town of Essex does it much the same way we do. I don't even know if they even add consider adding sidewalk anymore To be honest with you. I can tell you the city of South Burlington plows every inch of sidewalk and paths The city of Burlington, I'm I've got to believe is the same way They're requiring people to shovel their own walks Burlington. Yeah, well, I was gonna be one of the three ways. I was gonna say, you know, they'll get get around this is one It's a status quo two is You know you adopt an ordinance and makes sidewalks in front of people's properties their responsibility Which is not out of the ordinary or unusual And that's really, you know, that's about it So the The question one of the questions that we have about the Hamlet is are the roads in the Hamlet now Town roads or they are not So it went would they be accepted about the same time that we do Finney crossings roads Two different developments there. I have no no, I have no control to say when the finny crossing turns them over The Hamlet has to turn them over at the same time. I do expect the Hamlet uh The part of the Zephyr Road this year the top would have been done and they were going to do it late in the year Uh, the developer called me late because they promised me they would have it done this this year because I want to have it done Called me late in the year and asked if they could Post phone it till the spring because of the heavy construction they have going on right now with a new bank and stuff right at the corner of Zephyr and Williston Road And then the Hamlet is supposed to do their section of Zephyr also And he was actually even farther ahead ready to do the top on his And I asked the two developers to get together and talk about Paving that road all at the same time rather than have a bunch of seams in that road So that will happen in the spring as far as the other roads in the hamlet are concerned I'm not sure when he's thinking about Putting the top on those Is there any interest in looking at what it would cost to pay to How all the sidewalks and asking the voters Whether they would be interested well, that's a different different discussion for a different time. I think I believe it that we would need to get a lot of information about costs and then But it would we have to kick off looking at it first right what it would take to do the rest The board would need to do that, but I think that's a discussion for a different night We have plenty to talk about tonight Yeah, I wouldn't expect we would talk about it tonight, but just is there any interest or should we just let it Don't know yet. Yeah, okay. I wouldn't mind understanding what the cost was Yeah, and I think residents typically like things. I mean, I like to pay for you know When they're paying for things and I like to see things right Sidewalks is something and people that don't have sidewalks Also would be interested in that. Yeah, but we can hear back from that, right? So there's lots of folks in the audience from I think at least from the hamlet. I'm not sure where else but if you'd like to offer some Jeff wants to go ahead Is that okay? Go ahead. Sorry. I go ahead Bruce the one thing I I picked up a couple things I picked up on if you don't mind is Um, everybody Scored pretty much in the first criteria the one about removing snow is reasonable compared to the other sections except for the hamlet And then everybody also scored with the sidewalk constructed to current public work standards And it so the first thing is is why didn't the hamlet score? Score well there not well That box checked for a lot of the hamlet could end up costing us more to move snow from the sidewalks There's not a lot of room in there to put snow from the sidewalks So there could become a time where we end up moving snow, which we don't do as a matter of course Because there's a physical reason that it right out of place. So yeah, the cost could be okay Okay, and this is just an observation. It's fine. I'm glad somebody asked me jeff. I wanted to see if anybody caught it Um, and the observation actually the okay another observation is Um, it appears most people get the first and the last box checked So that's almost kind of For lack of a better word standard. Um, that may not be the best description. So it's really the other criteria that kind of What gets you into the yes, it may make sense to You know to add you versus no So that's just just an observation there and in the one project that did check Those other boxes was still water So I I don't know where I'm going with this particularly. I think he was recommending still water Oh, yes, I get that. Yeah, that's my point is it got two boxes other than those quote-unquote standard two Which I'm starting to The policy we have doesn't describe How we use these criteria it only says these are the criteria you consider So when I'm starting to figure out it's okay as I'm using these criteria What value how am I going to value How the boxes get checked off and it it seems that you have to get at least I shouldn't say at least but a consideration is more than the standard two To fall into it adds enough value that we ought to take it on does that make sense? It does and but my my my other thought and the reason I was asking the other questions They never change right You're either going to be two boxes or one box or three boxes, but that's never going to change So you can put in a request every year for your Sidewalk to be plowed and it's never going to be approved. So yeah, I think and I can see Your points some of them might change because as developments connect to each other some of the connectivity boxes could get changed Um, depending on yeah, but but I get your point It's going to be hard to check boxes as the future, you know in the future because things aren't going to change Significantly enough so so that you can check those boxes But maybe if the the chair will entertain a discussion at a future date, maybe ask rick to put I think the whole issue needs to go on a future agenda. Yes And then the other last question I have is When it talks about these will be uh, the plowing will take place next season That's starting in the winter of 2019 2020 not this winter, but uh a year from now Okay Just want to make just want to make sure I understood correctly So members the public if you wish to speak, this is your opportunity to do so and if you please identify yourself if you do Phil did you want to speak or please So that doesn't Project to us. It just gives you an opportunity to talk to the public. I'm sorry The microphones do not project anything more than just to the the tv camera Good evening, um, my name is reed car and um, I'm here as part of the hamlet community uh, I was born here in wilson and been a resident most of my life and uh I'm here along with uh, phil prevention Um to speak to some of the points about our request for the hamlet sidewalk plowing and um I first like to take a moment to look at the criteria There are a couple criteria that were not checked that we had some questions about or comments about So with respect to reasonableness of cost, uh, I was interested to hear that Where to put the snow is an issue that was not something that we were aware of Uh, but in general, uh It's worth noting that the hamlet is a very dense community. They're single family detached condos Right now there's 43 built two more probably to be built So there's very little sidewalk per unit. So in terms of The amount of sidewalk per home that would be using it locally But I also would mention that there's constant traffic On our sidewalks from not just our community, but the communities that are around so it seems as though it might be Reasonable in terms of cost per amount of usage The these uh, and I also wanted to mention That uh impact fees were collected during the permitting process for our community And we feel it would be nice to see those monies going toward services For the community that that paid them With regard to connection to services, we were pleased to see that that was seen as Meeting the criteria we we do act as the only way for many folks in the finny crossing Area to get over to the clock tower shopping center. There's no connected sidewalks along route two Or from the hamlet directly to the clock tower. So you have to go through the hamlet or along zephyr To route 2a in order to get there as well as Blair park Criteria number three is around demand And the hamlet sits at the heart of this new dense residential area We believe there's roughly a thousand residents that live in and around the hamlet Which represents more than 10 of the town's population And it's constantly in use. I work from home full time. So I'm on the first floor I look out the window. There's people going by all day long Many of whom do not live in our neighborhood and we welcome them, but it is a consideration We have folks who use it to access for dog walking and exercise And recreation as well as walking to services like transportation as a bus stop on route 2a right next door There are commercial facilities Vermont tech is across the street I personally use it to walk my son to daycare on Blair park And we're very pleased to see that zephyr and cornerstone look like they'll be plowed in the future and There's a lot of demand for the ability to walk within the neighborhood Not just to walk from the neighborhood along the bike path either along 2a Or over toward allenbrook Item number four is around safety concerns. This is something I've been seeing a lot this winter Folks are being forced to walk in the streets. We do have a contract to have our sidewalks plowed But sometimes it's not done consistently or it's not done in coordination with neighboring Communities like finny crossing and chelsea place. So what ends up happening is sometimes there's snow left Blocking access from one neighborhood into another or one neighborhood is plowed and one is not yet plowed So having consistency would be really helpful Right now there is a School bus stop in our neighborhood and so children are walking on the street To get to the school bus and wait for the school bus at the same time as there's construction vehicles and plows Plowing the streets So there are safety concerns We do have a number of handicapped folks in the neighborhood who use Our sidewalks and it's a particular safety concern for them when they are not able to connect from one sidewalk to another Or it's not consistently cleared Criteria number five is around major arterial or connector roads collector roads and We're along zephyr and it's worth knowing that a lot of people are using zephyr to cut between route two and 2a especially during Times for commute to avoid taft corners So i'm not sure how those the collector roads and main arterial roads are defined But there's a lot of traffic in our area. So folks are walking on the street. It's a it's a problem Criteria six around School walk routes and while we do not fall on a school walk route We do have a number of children who are elementary school age and should be able to walk to alambrook school When there are snow events safely Number seven is around designated recreation loops and while we do not we don't believe we fall on a recreation loop Or designated recreation path. We do A but against the zephyr road path And eventually that will mean that our sidewalks are a connection for folks to get onto the bike path that will connect to sx junction along 2a and also into the center of wilson and lastly, um, we're um Glad to see that um public works finds our sidewalks to be up to standard and as was mentioned our roads should be finished paving next year, hopefully and in which case Um The roads will be fully ready for handover and there won't be the bump ups from the partially paved roads onto the sidewalks Which right now adds an additional hazard And i believe phil wanted to say something as well. Yeah, I do. Um, I prepared Borrowed some match from the finish crossing Which i'd like to i'd like to pass out only to illustrate The the uh density that we're in and if you take a look at this study, you'll understand what we're coming from We feel that we're in fact The heart Of the entire 1200 people down there Anyone wanting to go, um, you know, like he says to plan park or to do vtc or something Has to come through the hamlet they walk through the hamlet this um There's there's many multilevel Buildings apartment buildings. There's there's a thousand people down here in that postage stamp and um A picture is worth a thousand words, you know You've got to open that up. I've tried them. Yeah, I took a uh basic coloring coloring lesson today You can see all the orange all the orange Buildings are multi Multi-units. This is a proposed multi-unit. This one there exactly cherry. Um I tried to show you where this this is the the uh, you know the town When the buses uh the bus stop, um Across the street on the other side the bus stop as we know is where park is There's a lot of people there. There's handicap people walking there. There's um It's just incredibly busy Do you mind if I jump in with a question? I guess one of the things that that maybe i'm confused about is I I guess I heard reed say that I read That you have a contract For plowing so it's like these are condos or apartment buildings in this area and typically there's property maintenance That's just part of the deal of owning a condo or owning An apartment in one of these areas and the end property maintenance now plows and takes care of those Areas is that true? It's partially true. We do we have do have a contract. However, however in as much as we're providing a service to the entire Thousand residents down here. We don't you know, we have we have an objection to paying for all of this So you have an objective an objection to paying for the service? Yes Yes, and that's why we're already paying for it with our taxes Well, we're paying for some sidewalks right now. Everybody's sidewalk in the town gets plowed by far Oftentimes they don't have any so much on the other hand they built a downtown willis then with a thousand people You know That's it's a choice, right? This would in fact enhance Enhance all the residents of the I call it the north Northeast corner of tax corners. I've been there for 40 years. I've seen an awful lot of stuff The question was further questions for these two gentlemen We have some other people that want to speak I believe presentation Thank you I thought I saw a hand over here And comes in from chan awards Michael Lane, and I just wanted to thank you for this opportunity to consider And we don't have the immediate need or the density that we hear from other neighborhoods But would ask to be part of a broader look at snow removal within the town of willis then Without any urgency Should we submit a letter every year if it's not or can we be Considered part of a plan when when this developed I am not sure what Bruce would say, but I think it should submit something each year. Okay I would say with one exception if the slope were to size changes policy in some way that might change the Right way it happens. Right, right Thank you anybody else who wishes to speak tonight If not, then the one request that the Public Works director has said is to approve the One for a still water lane There is a motion to that effect if you wish to Make that So we can start discussion. I'd move to amend the sidewalk The winter maintenance policy attachment one to include the section of still water lane between zephyr road and talcott road Is your discussion on the motion If not, no, no, I'm sorry. I'm not I do I'm struggling a bit here and Not not with the the one that we've made the motion on the other three and It's that question Far enough and and I just want to let you know I'm struggling I'm struggling with that To get them included I would only say if I could add to that Sure, please do we're going to add those we have to consider the rest of the town to The rest of the unplowed sidewalks because for the most part they're They're within the same policy approval scope. So we're going to Pick a few because they've come in Um, we should consider the rest if in other words if they're not meeting the bar that bruce is set, you know, the most urgent then That bruce is recommending that room we can and we can change that policy, right? So which is what I recommend we look at at least look at the cost and but again, that's a different that's a subject for Yeah, a different. I mean, I'm not disagreeing. I agree. It's just Tonight I have um one that I could I could vote for Um Even though it doesn't check more than two boxes and well checks one in addition to the two standards But it doesn't check one of the standard boxes But The read card did a great job You know and I can be convinced by that I I agree with the sentiment. Um, I feel Badly not extending services out. But if we actually apply the criteria that exist now Um, it's a rather clear cut Answer. I do think that we need to revisit this issue. I I would like to know what the total numbers would be for plowing Yeah, everything and how big you know, that's that that could be a huge thing. I mean I'm always always surprised on on uh, you know on the select board that you know You have a good idea and then and then it turns out that you look at the dollars So, um, you know, I would like to look at the dollars before we Rush off Boys, we're inconsistent. We're applying inconsistent policy, which isn't fair to the residents. So Yep Sorry further discussion If not all those in favor of the motion say I I any opposed in those tensions So we've done this for tonight. Uh, we anticipate sometime in the next Perhaps a couple of months to be taken a look at the policy and looking at the kind of the cost of doing the sidewalks and particular places as well as the whole town So I'm sure that bruce would be happy to talk to you folks anytime regarding the The policy and and the procedures that go with it. Sure. I'm sure Sure, but I think uh, Public works director is the right guy to do that and I'm sure that rick would be uh, involved in it as well Thank you all for coming So Now we're running a little bit behind So let's go to the bylaw amendment on a growth management And Belanger is here Why they pay is a big box It was during the great recession Hey matt evening Good evening, man. Um So I'll just start off by mentioning there's Actually two chapters of the bylaw up for amendment tonight one of them is a very large amendment One of them is just about as small as amendments get the smaller one is The addition of one more allowed use to industrial west This was a request a citizen request that came to the planning commission and Would add a financial services non non retail financial services Use to the list of allowed uses in the industrial district where a number of other technical service and accounting uses are already Allowed the planning commission's position on this one was they didn't see any problem with it They felt they could support it But didn't want to make it its own item subject to its own full and complete noticing and hearing process But would rather uh co-locate it with something else that um, we were spending some more time on So I just wanted to be clear that we had that as well And that's sort of probably the easier one to introduce and dispose of I think I've Probably done that just now Is that the only question? I mean no issues with that one from my standpoint. It's just the question of You know when I looked at at what you provided for information It almost was like it's as you said, it's a relatively minor as a minor as you can get changed would form-based Zoning sort of get rid of those types of questions and it seems to me what happened here is there was It's almost like an oversight not to include it And does form-based zoning sort of get rid of the potential to have these? Oversights, you know where you just forgot not forgot us the right word You didn't realize you should add a specific s i c code Or I guess there's a new acronym for it's not s i c anymore, but Yeah, and a i c s now north america industry. Thank you So your question, you know with having a form-based code Do away with some of these complications related to the the peculiarities of particular use categories The answer is that it certainly could very briefly a form-based code is the idea that you regulate How sites are developed where buildings are placed what the buildings look like A good example of form-based code is any building you see going up in city center south burlington right now um You're seeing entire four-story buildings there that were approved administratively without a drb hearing But under a very very Prescriptive code of what buildings have to look like and include and how they have to be situated on their site So form-based code emphasizes form and either does away with or deemphasizes use to a large degree I would offer up another alternative Which is simply a simplification of the way the town's bylaws deal with use Really great advice actually coming from the south burlington planning director He has sort of six easy steps to simplifying your zoning bylaw and it's a little presentation paul does And he says, you know really take a look at your uses in your zoning code And just name the ones you really don't want In a particular part of town And you know, so for example in a purely residential zone, you say well We really don't want anything other than residential and in ballistics case child care But in the industrial zoning district you might say something like Really anything can go here as long as it meets the form But we don't want Specialty retail because we really want that somewhere else something like that. So you can you can make your categories much more general Sometimes NAICS provides a false sense of precision because there's these big six-digit numbers attached to everything That's a project for another day Until we do Something much more global like that. We're kind of stuck with occasionally running into Gee that makes sense there, but it's not quite the right code number and um, that's where requests like that come from Okay, good. Thank you. I'm just out of a form-based code. It's mainly the What the building looks like and so you could like have a four-story rendering plant or a slaughterhouse and If it didn't four stories Didn't make any dust and it had appropriate glazing and You know, oftentimes the way you deal with those is you have places in your form-based code where there's no outdoor storage or Outdoor loading or yarding areas allowed. For example Your more urban districts will have lot coverage requirements that you just Wouldn't be able to do that sort of thing there But it's it can be a bit of a leap of faith sometimes that you know, you're you're taking away some of that use regulation And just looking at form one way williston has anticipated its comprehensive plan looking at form-based code Is to look at it for the growth center And you could keep all of those allowed and not allowed uses underneath it At least at the outset and say so Here's all all of what you can and cannot do in this district But if you come here, here's what we want the building to look like and you can do form-based code and still regulate use underneath it Certain purist consulting firms won't work with you on that They they're true believers that if you do form that's all you got to have There are other firms that are happy to work on hybrid codes And different chitin and county communities have have fallen along that spectrum as they've moved to form-based code So like I said, that was a relatively easy one I know that I was on the agenda for 15 minutes tonight So i'm going to try to summarize and leave lots of room for questions here in this introduction To amendments to growth management The first thing I would say is this is the culmination of about 14 months of public process with the planning commission including two large public input sessions a series of work sessions and Several public hearings ending in november of this year related to these amendments Little bit of background Since about 1990 williston has regulated the pace of residential growth in terms of On average how many new dwelling units can be created per year in town? For the last 20 years or so it's willisons looked at that in these 10 year cycles So allocation happens Once a year, but it happens looking out Across a a 10 year window and every year you're somewhere within that window and The other part of allocation Is it went from a very simple system of how many dwelling units per year? Are we going to have new in town To geographically segregating them and saying well We want most of the new dwelling units to happen in the growth center And some of them in the rest of the sewer service area and a few of them out in the ag rural part of town And then evolved even from there to say well If we're going to let new development build We're going to make it competitive and new projects will need to Offer up certain attributes and compete with one another for that limited supply of allocation So we have a system now that constrains the Number of new units per year that can be built in town It's competitive and it incentivizes things that are not often otherwise required by the zoning by-law Things like energy efficiency affordable housing neighborhood design connectivity, etc So that's the system we're starting with And there's some things about that system that have been fairly problematic One is that When you say well, you can't build a unit until this date But we don't want you to just sort of have the right to build that unit forever and ever You deal with elements of exploration and in a down economy suddenly you have projects that are partially expired Developments that are stalled out Related to that that can be really difficult Keeping track of the whole system is difficult Because the town has adopted allocation in these 10 year blocks Where a project comes in in that 10 year cycle Can you can start with a very Uncompetitive project in year one of 10, but there's there's sort of this fairly wide open allocation out in front of it And the same project in year nine of 10 Can't even get out of the starting blocks because everything's been given away and it and it's competing with lots more Or you can have a project that comes in somewhere in the cycle and there's nobody else looking for units And so it gets allocation and you can have the same project with five competitors another year And it doesn't get to move forward. So as much as you'd like to think that it's You know, it's consistent and the the the goodness of a project always equates a certain amount of allocation We can see some problems in the system where it doesn't really work that way Um Once a project gets allocation and it has a certain number of units a year it can build That can start to look like an awfully long time frame for the build out of a project and we've received that comment Uh related to some of the newer developments coming through town You know, someone will say well you mean that the allocation for this project is stretched out over an eight year time period I'm going to have a construction site in my backyard for eight years And it's because of this system or at least there's a perception that it isn't this system Um So those are just a few of the challenges that uh, the planning commission wanted to address based on this system And I would say that this process started from a very open-ended perspective We're the only town in the state that does anything like this for residential development This is a an additional step in subdivision that nobody else does Um, it has served the town well and achieving a lot of its goals But we put it on the table, you know, should the town continue to do this Should the town continue to do this Across the whole town or should we not do it in the growth center anymore where we're saying we want to grow? The answer for through public input and with the planning commission was yes We still want to have some kind of a town-wide growth management system Yes, we still want to have a geographic distribution of units that focuses into the growth center Yes, we still want to incentivize things that we we either don't or don't think we can quite get away with requiring of all development but There's certain kinds of development that are so important to the town that we really don't want them to be restricted by this system anymore We don't want to make people get allocation if they're building dwelling units that are at 80 of the median income or below Affordable, that's the type of development that we've gotten almost none of in williston despite our efforts to incentivize it here Um, we also think that there might be certain really really terrific projects That bring so much to the town that they shouldn't have to be part of the growth management system or the 80 unit per year growth target So in this draft, you're going to see both the exemption of those 80 median or below affordable units And you're going to see something, uh, we we identified in this draft as high scoring developments Uh, the term the planning commission uses the high flyer project Where we've set a very high scoring level of 70 points out of 100 and said projects that score 70 points or more Are not part of the 80 unit per year growth target and proceed straight through, uh, the remainder of their permitting process now That happens within a framework where It's getting harder to score 70 points under this system Than it is in current system, and I'll I'll briefly go over a few of those adjustments as well For a long time the energy efficiency incentive in this system has been a giveaway It says all units will be built energy star five star Well today in 2018 anybody building a house who's going to get a residential building efficiency certificate At the end of their process, which everybody has to do Is building to that standard so every project is getting full points for that. We've replaced that with a tiered score Related to the stretch goals So it gets harder to achieve. It's it's something more than just any old person building a house would have to do The stretch goals. I'm sorry. That's so what you would see here. Um, this is a efficiency Vermont Goal and the term is Efficiency Vermont high performance level And so we have that And then we have a tiered system based on what percentage of your units are going to meet that And then if you want full points, you're also adding in on-site energy generation via solar or energy storage via battery to add resiliency to the grid So those are new things Before before we were using this five star system So, um One other sort of general point before I go into or answer questions is that 10-year window And I mentioned how the 10 years at a time window has been problematic in terms of How it impacts the competitiveness of projects what what it means to be at the beginning versus the end of the window This draft proposes replacing that with a rolling 10-year window And what that means is The drb in making allocation would always be looking 10 years into the future And they would not be looking any years into the past So what happens is a practical matter today We're in say year four of a 10-year cycle and the drb has an applicant in front of them and they've liked so many units And well, we can give them this much of what they want going out into the future But hey, nobody wanted this stuff from the past. So we'll pull it forward so effectively We have a 10-year window all the time as long as nobody was asking for this stuff that's back in the past What rolling allocation would do is it would always load a new 10th year into the system automatically But it would drop all of the past years behind. So if somebody You know if a unit was not allocated out of here, it would simply disappear. It would no longer be available That is what happens today every 10 years when we move from one cycle to another so Every year you would have a 10-year horizon in front of you We think that would level off the competitiveness question a little bit It would let the drb always see that that lengthy distribution of projects across the decade Last thing Is the provision for the timing of construction once you get allocation So projects often receive allocation because we're looking at this limited pool of units per year They'll receive allocation across five or six or more years That at times Creates an artificial Waiting period for a project under progress to build all of its units It builds the units it has available and suddenly The developer is waiting for the turn of the fiscal year to be able to get their next couple of permits It doesn't help that our fiscal year falls a couple months into the construction season You know literally just those few months creates complications But what this proposal would do is it would say your project gets allocation it gets allocation across six or seven or eight years But once you start building You may simply keep building until the project is complete If you finish ahead of schedule You finish ahead of schedule And on a town-wide scale and on a 10-year scale That means things are a little lumpy But our impression from modeling it and looking at it is Things are no more lumpy in terms of the number of new units per year the town experiences under that system Then they are today Because what happens today is projects that get allocation over six or seven years Get their allocation started and then they wait three years And then they start building and they build everything they've sort of amassed So the experience From the town is is almost never that applicants are building every single unit in the year in which they received it So they do that just from an efficiency standpoint. Well, yeah, it simply doesn't make sense You know, if you have a 40 unit subdivision and you got five units in the first of your fiscal years It won't make economic sense to build all the infrastructure necessary to serve the development just to build and sell those first five units So people save up Creeks edge development on north willistons road is a good example. I think They're probably Four years into their allocation cycle and they only started building just last year But on the opposite side You have let's say a 400 unit subdivision or not subdivision, but approval Under this scenario, they could literally build all 400 in one year If they put enough manpower and equipment on the site, they could do that It would not be possible for them to purchase enough sewer allocation to do that okay, so This system adds some flexibility, but sewer allocation and attachment a remain a backstop In fact, they become possibly a little more important of a backstop Than they are today So, you know, we we looked at a couple of scenarios like that, you know What if well, what if somebody proposed a finny crossing and then they built it all in one year? And some reality checks on that In the market we're in We don't think that there are developer developers capable of that kind of capacity We don't think the market's capable of of absorbing that kind of a build out But most importantly in our growth center where we would have big projects like that There's not another piece of land like the piece of land that finny crossings being built on so there's Still significant development capability in the growth center. There's a lot of infill residential capability in the growth center But it's 20 and 30 and 50 unit buildings on single parcels It's it's not another finny. It's not even another cottonwood at this point so Based on the capability of the market the capability of the development community the capability of the land and that Backstop of at some point you're going to run out of sewer allocation to sell every year We think Is means that it's not unlimited And the other part is if somebody came in and they got allocation out across 10 years for 400 units and they built 400 units Well, now you've got 400 units and you're not going to get one single one more for 10 years and effectively Something kind of like that's happening already. So finny crossing was the same way There were fiscal year after year after year when they had allocation and didn't build it And then when there was enough to get going you get that you get that launch In their case that launch was the a 55 unit building was the first building that went in It's okay to ask my too big what I consider my two big questions right now is You referred to back in 1990 when we first implemented growth management and if I remember correctly it was over concerns about how The residential growth was impacting our schools and impacting our ability to provide services primarily things like police and fire We know the school situation has changed drastically Drastically, maybe it's not a great word Changed there was a time in which we had temporary classrooms. There was a time at which we anticipated building the mirror image To the central school I don't hear any talk Either bringing back temporary classrooms or building that that mirror image of the school So I guess my question is is Has the issue of impacts of residential growth on the town fundamentally changed From when growth allocation was first put in into place and is there a quick answer? Probably not to why that is So yes, I I think the fundamental situation has changed the the town has a different level of facilities The demographic mix has changed in the state and even in the county such that the school population Issue is not as much of a concern. In fact, I think at some point even chitin in county Will find itself shoveling against the demographic tide of that aging population And and having you know a variety of housing types will help places like will list and you know weather that At the same time, you know adding about a hundred people a year every year or something like that is a nice Way for the town to experience growth and be able to you know When do we buy another machine to plow sidewalks? When do we Need another person on the planning staff that sort of thing so it may not be necessarily about building another big giant building Or or adding a entire department that we don't have right now But there's there's still a element of wisdom to having a relatively steady rate of growth across that longer timescale And in Williston's case, there's that limited sewer allocation in the background That the town really has worked very hard to spend wisely and and having a system like this Can be a can be a piece of that You know one thing I'll just add to that before you ask number two Is you know, we're talking about some units that would be allocated outside of the growth target So remember an attachment a you have a piece of attachment a you budget just to support the growth target Well, how are we going to support what gets built outside of the growth target? Well affordable you often have a line item in attachment a to to be able to support some construction of affordable I think on terms of that high flyer high scoring It's likely to my advice would be to do that out of the encouraged specific development category The other way we've always thought if somebody really wanted to do something really innovative around a residential development in Williston would be to do a specific plan Where you're essentially writing your own zoning district and you could theoretically write yourself out of growth management this kind of just Takes that idea and just lays it down and makes it part of the normal course of development review and says Here's if you want to build something really really great Well, here's what we think that would have to include and what that would look like And I would I would recommend supporting that with some allocation in the encouraged specific development And also what that means is you as the select board get the ultimate up down On or the yes no on that really cool interesting high flyer development at the end of the day And that's a good thing. I think so I think I think so because it's a big step outside of this sort of Long used and carefully considered growth target tool But you know At least for now There might come a point where you say, you know, we don't we don't really want to be the last say on whether a development is built or not But in truth By by dealing with sewer allocation the way you do Sometimes you are my point about that was more along the lines of Gross should happen because it makes sense from the town from a you know, sort of a planning You know compliance with the town comprehensive plan goals And sewer should be there to support it not in any way to limit it or to encourage it So I I like it when Sewage or sewage allocation sewer allocation is totally separate from The decisions about a weather project scores enough points to move ahead or not I think it would be better if it was a policy decision at attachment a to say You know, we're going to set some allocation aside in case we need want to support one of these projects And then to honor the drb scoring of the project and say well the the folks we appointed to vet this Think it's think it's good and think it's in line with the comp plan goals And ultimately to adopt a policy, you know This says 70 points you might look at these criteria and say I'd be more comfortable if it was an 80 or a 90 point project before it got any special consideration and growth management. That's It's an easy edit for me to make anyhow The second question had to do with in I'm sorry You already hit on it a bit and Going back to 1990 again There are large parcels in wilson that could be developed, but most of those parcels have already been developed the build out The build out that's still available to be built out You know what's still available is much diminished compared to what it was and I'm just trying to get a sense What your opinion is how it has that change in what's left what could be built out or Diminishing of what could be built out. How does that affect how we should be moving forward with our our bylaws or be Changing our bylaws. Well, I think I think what's left should always inform that conversation I two pieces of advice there one being that I think the The salvation of or the realization of the town's vision of a design conscious Pedestrian friendly downtown at Taft Corners lies in residential infill Because I think that's where the demand will be I don't think you're going to infill Taft Corners with retail In the next 50 years because I don't think the demand for retail is going to be there And we know the demand for office isn't really there And residential infills great because it means there's people there And it becomes a quote-unquote real place where there's people walking around We're starting to see that in the relationship between finney crossing and maple tree place and I encourage anybody to go down 8 30 on a wednesday night in the summer and watch people walk between the two places. It's it's really terrific So that's that's sort of I think number one I think number two is to have a really careful informed discussion about Development in the other sewer service area That's the part of the map if there's any that I look at and I get a little more nervous about And where I think it's really important to have Really rigorous criteria because right now We outside of making sure somebody's competitive in growth management the criteria are not as Prescriptive or as rigorous in the zoning. We have this large, you know the yellow on this map the residential zoning district Where we basically say it's three per acre and you need to meet the access standards standards of that lens, but There's no building design standards. Um, there's an open space standard But there's no quantitative open space requirement et cetera, it's It's one of the looser zoning districts in terms of design requirements Okay, so you tend to get What I would call a more market driven design of some of the stuff in there Somebody who came in and said I want to be in that part of town in the yellow part town And I want to do this high flyer project They would need to build a project that would look fundamentally different from Anything you've seen before and so I would I would say that's the place to really look at the capability is Other sewer service area and in particularly rzd. The village is is relatively stable. Yeah, okay Good. Thank you questions Just a couple and probably short answers. They're okay I want to add some specific questions on the policy changes that you're proposing to make so And some of them you have answered but a number one on your memo What's the implication of this allocation certificate and sure not really sure what that means or why You know, we can get rid of that and replace it with this other So the the bylaw when it was adopted anticipated that when somebody got allocation They would get a stack of printed certificates like stock certificates Each of them could be redeemed with one permit for one house And it sounded like a really nice symmetrical sort of self regulating self tracking system Where we wouldn't have to as administrators keep track of who would build what In in practice, everybody lost their certificates We ended up having to remake them from our own files and then charge people to copy it and then take it back and Put it in the file It's really administratively at this point simpler for us to just keep track as the staff And and follow the terms of the notice of decision Got it. Okay. I understand. So it's just it's a it's a housekeeping piece But it was in the bylaw. So we have to change it there. So a number two on your memo You know, you're limiting the number and frequency of small exemptions So I looked at those exemptions as a way as the small landowner could still Build something because when you talk about Some of the new criteria, you know when you talk with the open space criteria, which is an old criteria, but You know putting in Some kind of renewable energy, you know adding, you know electric car stations The person that's going to build two houses on some property develop a small piece of property Can't afford or probably can't you know won't do that kind of development and It seems like we still want to enable The small landowner who wants to develop To allow them to develop and not just the mega developer of which we have one or two seem to have developed a huge part of Wolistan so far Um, so I I worry about this, you know limiting the number and frequency of small exemptions Why would we want to do that? Why are we trying to? Limit small landowners versus the mega landowner or the So the bylaw today allows for up to four of those exemptions per year Okay for projects that don't meet the minimum score, which is 30 points With with very little other restriction And I think what we've experienced is a couple of projects that have either asked for or received All four of those So you end up with a five unit project in the end There's one unit I write on the parcel before you get allocation That you don't have to get allocation for so you end up with a five unit project On a pretty good size piece of land the one I'm thinking of came through on about a 13 acre parcel in the ag rural And there was a feeling that giving all four to one project wasn't great So this drops it back to no more than two per project So that your example the person who just wants to do two lots Still has access to the exemption I would share a little bit of concern about the parcel size limit that says this is only available to people starting with a parent parcel of 10 acres or fewer And if there was concern about this provision, I wouldn't be as worried about limiting it to two units per project As I would be about limiting it to projects that start with a parcel smaller than 10 acres And I can I can elaborate on that but you know you you want to have some kind of exemption I would say that this system makes it easier for those small projects to score those 30 points than it is today So today an ag rural project would look at it and say well Nobody wants my open space, you know, if you give it to the town if you give it to vlt You get points And I can't do affordable housing because I'm not building enough units to support an affordable project And there's no desire for a trail map on my land and how am I supposed to get any points at all? And and the exemption works that way adding some of those Energy efficiency things a small a smaller project could say. Yeah, you know, I'm I'm gonna Commit to building really efficient houses or solar panels or adding power wall batteries And you know, it's a little kick to kind of get up over the line and and do that Um, so okay, so it's a balance your net is this is going to make it easier And still allow for the small landowner to develop. Yeah, we've created some other ways to achieve points I think yeah, I've read your criteria. It's just a different mix of And I like the the affordable housing Kind of exemption right basically if you're going to build affordable Yeah, you don't fall within the 80s So is there anything else for affordable that we're promoting? Um, well, we look at affordability in three levels So there's stuff that's 80 medium or below the really really really affordable as far as will it's in concern There's the stuff that's affordable at 100 medium down to 80 We also do look at 120 medium category. So this is one of your scores. Yeah, not the most expensive stuff The other element of affordability is within the growth target and within the growth target for each of these geographic zones 25 percent of the of each of those is set aside only for units that are affordable So we say we're going to today Do 12 units a year in the residential zoning district and of those Nine are market rate and three have to be affordable So you're if you if the if the town ever experiences all 80 units per year being built under this system 25 of them will be affordable at Something under 120 medium That's all. Thanks. Any further questions? I'd be looking for a motion to schedule a public hearing I've moved to schedule a public hearing to receive comment on proposed amendments to the wilson unified development By-law chapters 11 and 36 second Layton seconded is there a discussion on the motion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Any opposed? So we've done that. I've got a couple of type houses. I'll send to you tomorrow about you may do Thank you. Thank you, matt so For those of you who have came in late that we're We've completed the agenda except for starting the budget discussions now and that's where we'll be with the Library marty fisk director libraries and most of your board is here. So welcome And so I'd like to do kind of a quick trip through the operating budget First and you know hitting on the highlights And then you've only got a couple of things in the capital budget, which would take a short time as well Before is yours So carla karsten Joining me. She's standing in as the sort of the vice chair Steve perkins is not able to attend I just want to say I commend you all for Dead at this hour, and I know all of you were at paying jobs before you volunteered your time this late at night So for those for you So operating budget this year The major increase that you're going to see on the operating budget this year Is on the salary line item the vast majority of that line Is to pay for an increase of 160 hours in our substitute library budget Um and to give a one dollar an hour pay raise to substitute library staff What has been happening with our bookmobile in the past is that we have taken two of our regular staff members Out of the library during the busiest time of year of june july and august Those two staff members are the ones um who are our youth librarian And our outreach Librarian they're the ones who provide the programs for children during the summer reading program And all of our adult program So they would have to take in a shift their hours so that they could do the driving on the bookmobile during hours taking them out of the building when they really needed to be providing services in the building We wanted to have a substitute staff person who would be hired only for the summertime To drive the bookmobile during that time We did a pilot test of this The friends of the library Donated the salary of a substitute last year See if it was a pilot that would be worth us looking into for the regular operating budget And the answer was yes. It was much better When you have Literally programs where you're trying to put thousands of people through programs over the course of two months You need to have our staff in the building So that line would pay for the substitute To drive the bookmobile the one dollar pay raise Is to bring us more in line with Going rate for the substitute librarians in the chitin county We do compete with other libraries in Staff for that we recently for example had one of our regular substitute librarians filling in For a short term leave for somebody even in waterbury. So they're they're also traveling South in order to make part-time work on these positions The next line item that you're going to see some increases in that look a little larger than normal is for training There is a national conference. It's coming to burlington which focuses on small and rural libraries The friends of the library are donating half of the Cost for staff to attend the other half we're asking for to come out of the operating budget It's a three-day conference. We would send every Person for one day so that we wouldn't be closing the library for any of that time We're also looking at a three thousand dollar increase in the collections. Most of that would go to digital materials We're finding that the more digital materials we offer the higher the rate Of usage for that Most of it would go toward video and audio materials And we're also looking at an increase in our maintenance line in order to have our hVAC system cleaned The duct work has not been cleaned since the buildings were built in 1986 Eight I think We can have them cleaned in sections So one third of a building at a time Roughly two thousand dollars a year. Some sections are a little bigger than other sections It can be done over the course of weekends or evenings so that the library doesn't need to be closed And in the course of a three-year certification, we can have the entire building's ducts cleaned So those are the highlights If we were to go line by line You'll see that a lot of the lines are otherwise even or even decreased a little bit Would you like to go through each single line? Um, unless the board has questions about it. I don't think so So so just on the salaries the 17 000 increase approximately between 19 and Approved and 20 requested. That's the bookmobile The vast majority that is the increase for the bookmobile and the the one dollar an hour pay raise So what is the dollar an hour pay raise? Right now it's 12 50 an hour for substitute staff. This would bring it up to 13 50 Is that what you mean? Yeah, thank you Any other questions regarding operating budget? No, not sure. Thank you. Let's do the um Have a little budget. I think the only two I saw on here are page 18 and page 782. That's correct. Yes So page 18 is um library shelving This has been on um earmarked on the budget for a number of years I've got enough a final updated number Cost of metal has changed over the last five years or so since the original Estimate was done. We also Realized that we really would like to be able to put casters on these Units so that they can be moved around and be more reusable in other spaces It makes the makes it the flex the shelving much more flexible We get a potentially move like one section to another half of the building very easily if we wanted to So this particular shelving would replace our existing dvd shelving with pullout drawers. It would make the Um The space much more efficiently used so much higher capacity in a much lower Footprint smaller footprint and lower sight lines so that it opens up the site of the building The bins although they'll be used for dvds dvds are changing You know technology They it is something that can be used for other things You can remove the individual drawers if you wanted to and place them replace them with static shelves And still use the surrounding frame and casters. So it's a very flexible units. That's 22,250 Page 72 Marty just on that one item so the On that page page 18. It shows 22,000 and then other 22. Oh, that's the fund balance That comes from fund balance So the total is 44 five for that Yeah, that's a little confusing. Um, I'm sorry. That's not that's might I think that somebody else might have done that part So it's a total of 22,250. Oh, it is. Yeah, okay. So the 44 five must be And 44 five is not on my paperwork. Okay. Oh, I don't know that should just be coming out of the fund balance Okay, okay Yeah, good pickup. Thank you rest. Yeah, no, it's half that cost very The 72 h72 Um, this is the planned savings for replacement of the bookmobile We've been setting aside 7,500 dollars so that we can essentially quote pay cash Just sorry question. How old is the bookmobile now? Is it really I was going to guess like at most two. All right. Yeah, I think it's four Well, okay, how many miles on it so far? I'm not as many as you think I you know I recently got the oils changed and everything it it's not this The amount of mileage that goes on to it. It's the time. Yeah, it's the yeah It's the time on the generator and other things Because we do drive very short distances Yeah, it's like, you know, sort of like taxi service if you're driving, you know Short trips. It's actually sometimes a little bit harder on engines Any further questions for marty or Very clear. Thank you. All right. Good. Thank you very much for waiting for the So thanks Maybe you went to the men's room ran away I'm still here, right? Well, thank you And so When bruce comes back We'll go on to the two things that he has buildings and grounds And public works and I think We could probably do operating budget on both of those and then do The capital budget after that Looks like his books are still here. He comes right on time We're ready for Operating budget on both the buildings and grounds and public works And we'll do the capital legend After we do both of those All right, buildings and grounds No significant change there is Excuse me There's actually been a line added for Expenses at the old school house. Yes Then there's been a little bit of money another thousand dollars put in maintenance for the brick church I guess the thing to remember about the brick church too is this year I'm assuming we're going to have the Verizon equipment in there and start getting money for that So that'll help take some of this staying out of this budget Even though it's not a very big budget anyway So where are you now? I'm on page six. I'm just looking at the Summary sheet. Okay I want to know where the boxes are page 26 and page 27 Hopefully the actual exploration 26 27 They go all the way back to 29 I don't think we need to do anything as far as utilities and stuff like that. Jennifer will cover that under general administration later on All right, so that's the biggest changes to the Grounds budget adding that line mostly for and that's on page 26 the old school house expenses That's the school house. It's on the village dream. There's a coastal called stone pipe school house I don't know which we discovered Belongs to the town and not to the school Oh really? Yes We have been we have been doing some maintenance on it anyway over the years. We've painted it once or twice Some little odds and ends here and there, but We've always believed to be belong to the school And I guess rick found out it doesn't belong to the schools Somebody found out it wasn't me, but it's actually me, but So there's also a capital in here for this for that building too, but we'll talk about that when we get there Any questions on build on the buildings and grounds So What do we use that for now? We have not been that the school was using it for headquarters for the construction crew While the school was being Worked on the historical society Has used it in the past for A small number of things and would like to do more with that building the 1970s. Was that the post office? Uh, it's be well, it's behind where the post office used to be So the school is not using it anymore. They've emptied out most of their stuff So it's sitting over there basically empty at this point. Is it heated and it's heated and has water Yeah, it does not have hot water, but has water bathroom Not including the outhouses How many square feet is it just curious? I'm sorry. How many square feet? Oh, I have no idea. It's like 10 by 20 years. I guess that's probably like 50 by 50 Is it okay? Yeah 20 by 30 or 20 by 40, but it's just it's a one-room schoolhouse. It's Early what it is. It's white, right painted white. Yes white Has little annex building part built on the back of it. That's where the boiler room and the bathrooms are Too small for a senior center Definitely Very small seniors Moving on the public works, okay public works If you look at the I'm looking at the letter of transmittal right now just to start with The biggest increase in the public works budget is once again asking for the 10 000 dollars um More in re-treatment our paving line item That we like to keep adding 10 000 to every year just to keep it up there This past year for the first year I guess that I can ever remember doing I actually postponed paving in the fall that was going to get done with the hopes that the asphalt price is going to be back down in the springtime Because we have when we put our budget out We have a formula that goes with that that says it's a liquid ad for liquid asphalt cost rises more than five percent Of the time of the bid that they can add on to our bid price And it rose quite well this year So we put off two or three major paving jobs that we're hoping the liquid asphalt price goes down Which it historically does over the winter and we'll do those in the spring So In the um the 10 000 that's not to do more paving. It's just to that covers the increase in costs of of the asphalt And if we're lucky the asphalt prices as we know have done this So some years we will get more out of it, but we have to keep that line. I am going That's just an oil price indication isn't it Liquid asphalt is a byproduct of natural gas Oh Kind of strange how it works, believe me. I've asked them to explain it to me more than once and if one price goes up The other goes down, but I've not seen that happen all the time either. So That might be what they used to heat it with Natural gas Bruce I have to admit. I don't watch the daily price of liquid asphalt I might be Maybe not a good idea to admit my short followings as a select board member, but that hasn't been happening recently Glad to hear you got more important things to do Another new item line. I am that was added to this budget is uh on the in the summary page It's uh on the first page pedestrian path paving for 20 000 That's to do just what it says start doing some more paving of our pedestrian paths that need some real help I'm not something we've been doing but they're getting old enough now that we had some sections that need to be overlaid Where is that noted? I'm just looking at the summary page again. I'm not sure what page Yeah, that's it's not the transmittal page. No, it's this is it right here. Oh, I see. I'm sorry Terry, I jumped off. I'm off the summary page at this point. I mean off the uh The um, oh, I see. Yep. I got it. Okay. You're on page five. Yeah. Yes, but where's the detailed little description of it? I'm sorry Great. Thank you Oh, yes, there it is. Okay so, um You know We're hoping to do some three quarters of a mile of a year We if we put this right out with our paving bids we'll get a better price than if we try to bid this item out separately, so we put this Money would go It would go out to bid when we put our paving bids out Okay, that's why it's in your budget instead of what was at the parks budget before I take care of recreation paths. Anyway, okay So that was equipment operation and repair Let me see if I can find the page for you if you want I was just looking at the summary page once again I should flag those so I have them for you since that's what you'd like to see Uh, that's on page 21 That's just a slight increase to keep up with The equipment even though, you know, we're nice It's nice that we get newer newer equipment things still Cost increase still do happen just to keep up with stuff. So that's what that one's about And then there really weren't any other large increases that And I that I have any control over I guess is the way I like to say There's some salary increases benefit increases those kinds of things Not stuff that necessarily You know property and casualty insurance those kind of things other than that the budgets, uh So on the salary and benefits are those um increases I thought we had a better deal this year for benefits and this is like half of the salary amount Our benefits at a salary of 191,000 we have almost 100,000 In benefits costs administrative staff people and eight Employees so you have 11 people And then so you have 15,500 That's just for their health dental and life insurance Um, and then you have retirement working from And unemployment insurance there as well And if I could I think the question though is when we This year our Health insurance costs are going down And so I think the question was why doesn't this seem to reflect that today? Am I correct? Well, it's it's I guess if I look at the proportions if I look at last year's The benefits were basically a little more than 50 of the salary cost This year there the 20 full full year 20 or fiscal year 20 is um I guess a little less than 50 right? Is that true no No, there's still more than 50 percent But one of the things we can talk about is changing how we allocate that goes out to different departments And the way that we've changed it now is that we're doing for health dental life insurance It's a flat rate if you have a benefited employee if you have a full-time employee So in the past we've done that benefits based on what the particular employee in your department has And there were a couple people in versus department who opt out of our insurance plan So that's That cost the town less than this fully Benefitted employee amount Yeah, so some departments are going up and some are going down for that new allocation versus one department where it Changed quite significantly, but Um That could change like looking at his dynamic this year There are more people joining some of the newer employees are joining our health insurance plan Where the person that they were replacing was either a single person or they weren't on our plan at all Well, we've actually had employees whose spouses have either been let go or Downsized and they were using their health insurance. So they've had to pick up our health insurance So the concept is is that you every employee is assumed to have a benefit Uh as opposed to in the past where you would look at specific employees saying they're not requesting the benefits. So We don't have I mean, I I assume there's there's some compensation They receive for not participating in the in the plan But it wasn't the same as the cost of the plan This scenario says no, we assume all employees get the benefit And we allocate that out evenly amongst departments. So like in my position I was on the family plan for the town's health insurance My replacement could choose to opt out in this new plan It says regardless of what that employee particularly chooses that department pays a certain percentage Of the benefits of the town because they have a full-time benefit at employee It'll be easier for Um keeping track of that when we look at new positions and we say how much does it cost to add a new position to the town So the maintenance salary the summer maintenance salary just looking at one line item that represents 11 staff total Um because that would be summer and winter and administration So summer plus winter plus admin would be 11. Yeah all three of those together Okay Okay, that that comes out to about 15,000 right? Okay. Yeah, all right Anything else operating budget besides the general administration which will Take up at the next meeting just one. Hopefully this is a quick question bruce. I'm looking at the third bullet of Your letter of transmittal where it talks about consolidating the budget And I guess it appears to me it's still separated between summer and winter. So I guess I'm asking Is this the year the consolidation will happen? Will that happen next year? So so this is more this is more of a dream We don't I don't I don't look at it as summer winter. Anyway is what it really comes down to Yeah So I I guess I'm still confused by how it's presented in and bruce's letter of transmittal versus what I'm seeing in the budget Does that make sense? So that's sort of a goal down the road is that Well, certainly things like salt. Maybe I do but That would still carry a line item. Right. It's still get a line item, but I'm not so sure I see I guess I don't really see that much value from it Because the bottom line is quite literally the bottom line and That's You know me and my I'm not a finance person. You've probably heard me say that I'm an engineer So I tend to go more towards the bottom line. That's what helps me Looking to do this year because we do find that some of these are just Um arbitrarily splitting a number It's the other yeah And it doesn't really Describe the true cost of something when you're just taking one person and splitting their salary at home Yes, so if that is something that feels like for good support, we would be happy to show it that way Except you won't be willy Anything else on operating budget before we move on to capital If not, let's move on to capital budget And a lot of this stuff is just Not expenses that Not unusual expenses, but uh, I think I had pages 19 and 20 for buildings and grounds so it is 19 19 is, uh Placeholder at this point still because we're not putting any money. It's for the roof Both this building and the old brick church Next year next year So that requires putting way 250 000 next year Maybe the um, it depends on the type of Do we want is that that's a slate roof cost or something a slate roof would be more than this really? Yeah, I would say that's probably true And we're talking two different buildings here How Okay, so um at some point the board we're going to need some direction from the board as to what the board will What type of roof we should put on because it's going to make a huge difference on the total cost Just quickly we we we know that the roof on the old brick church the slate roof is not the original roof Was a cedar roof cedar single roof Really? Yeah, it's still up there Oh, interesting. It's underneath the slate. Yeah How thick is that never mind? Sorry. I'm going to slate the slate When the building was built, uh, they weren't even using slate roofs So at some point a slate roof got put on that building if you go up into the The attic you can see how it's been beefed up and it's mostly because of the slate that's been Taking the slate off wouldn't probably actually help That building so, uh, you know, there's some thought from some historic perspectives that there's even, uh That you can put a standing seam roof on a building like that still So those are that's what rick's talking about as far as and then in this roof. We haven't really discussed Whether it goes back to slay or something different And what is this roof now? I'm sorry. I didn't slate slate also. Okay, except for the back portion Which is just asphalt shingles That was an addition that was put on Currently And then on page 20 is the uh I alluded to earlier is And we'll have to get the right name on this because we're calling it the old school house And that's not what it is. It's the stone pipe corners, right? Um I did ask I did have a contractor come in and go through that building with me to look at it and Develop a plan And that's what this sheet does Some some of the things we're talking about replacing some of the siding doing some work on the stone foundation um Moving the uh the the outhouse that's behind it actually is a an outhouse behind the building And now that's right on the edge of a stormwater pond at the school built Not a functioning outhouse That's what it was But to talk talk about moving that out and putting it at a different location over there Moving on the public works ahead 27 through 31 and 45 through 51 Excuse me. Okay 27 is um The industrial avenue bridge uh Gets inspected for us by the state A couple years ago. We put a new deck on that bridge, but we need to get the uh steel underneath painted So that's what that's what this is for and this is an estimate that I got from one of the two bridge painters In the state of ramon To do that and we will put in for um Yeah money from v-trans to help offset that cost The money broke culvert on page 28 is uh the large culvert And uh we put the temporary bridge on Um that is still in the process of being The design while coming up with the one alternative to use this money is to keep that moving forward So we can get to the point of replacing that with whatever the structure is that's deemed to be the right one Eventually that will require a bond vote by one town or the other We haven't yet figured out which town will be bonding it But in any case it will require a bond vote At some point is that what the 810,000 is okay. Yeah, it's a 1 6. It's a 1.6 1.7 million project probably Okay, that would be our share And we'll go after all the grants and everything we can to offset that and south burlington is working diligently on that as well 29 uh is just a placeholder. It's uh To do something to the parking lot out back, but there's no money in it for this year This is something actually I had The parking lot has a number of problems. It suffers from poor lighting It suffers from um huge Frosty Center of the parking area which At one point the what is now the center of the parking area used to be the end of one of the parking areas So I I think when the two parking lots were combined the center somehow Got dissimilar materials or something And then the other piece is that We're finding it. It's just generally not large enough Daring voting Right, that's just one example, but uh, there are many times where if there's any meeting of any size up here There's just a place to park so We wouldn't be able to add a lot of spaces. Um, because we're limited in the back side 20 plus or minus 20 was the we had either we had the uvm Students do a capstone project on this force a few years ago to give us some idea of what we could do out there And that's what they came up with and their designs I don't see how you can make it much better than what they've come up with so Is there any issues with the armory or how we share with the armory and they share what? There are some issues. Um, I had a meeting with Them recently on on a host of different things and this is one of the issues I brought out and I think it's just a matter of communicating back and forth. Um, you know, for example, uh, they had um, a couple people from their building that were, um, away for training for a long period of time for weeks And they parked in our parking lot Well, there was no need for that. They could have parked in the compound behind the armory and But if they're having on a weekend if they're having a big exercise or something, there's no reason why they can't park here So it's just a matter of communicating And if they have some major event that they're sponsoring during the week, then they need to let us know So we can coordinate. So they agreed to do that. So I think Who's they? Well, it's the state are The garden there's actually multiple groups that use that building. I just want ownership. Well, who uh, who owns the armory? It's a state building Yeah, okay, I didn't know that state building, but it's federal that I funded funded So we don't own any maintenance on that No, it actually they own most of the parking They went up to about two feet of our building really Oh my goodness And for those of you who've been around for all you may remember that their compound used to be behind that hall That was their property and we owned land behind the armory And we ended up swapping Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah Page 30 is minor transportation improvements. This is where we've been getting money to do Different upgrades to different things the rapid some of the rapid flash beacons Uh, this is where we're going to buy some temporary speed humps for next year out of So that's what this is used for some sometimes some match for some studies. We asked to have done regional planning Yeah, and just since we're talking about this, um, these are impact fees impact fees cannot be used to pay for services One of the Good thank you for pointing that out 31 is just money to be paying back um For um The bond that was taken out By walks, excuse me 45 Is our uh large highway trucks Keep our rotation going on our trucks so that we have decent equipment for vowing And how many trucks is it? We have eight trucks seven drivers We're still short of person but you Short of person means you're hoping to hire you're hoping to have an eight position. It's open. We haven't filled yet But you guys me I I incorrectly spoke at a recent meeting that we were fully staffed We pointed out that I was wrong in that Uh, 46 is large highway equipment. So that's our loaders sidewalk plows tractors the excavator greater I'm sorry bruce beckon You're going faster than I can think All right Back on page 45 the 110 thousand dollars is To go into a fund For the next truck or to buy So it goes into a fund And when's the next we will use that this year you will yeah, we'll replace a truck It's 110 thousand dollars Probably about 130 140 thousand dollars, but with trade and other things that Offsets some of the numbers. Okay. So if there's eight trucks and they have a seven-year life There must be one year out of that cycle where you actually end up buying two trucks. That's right That's why there's a little bit of a fund balance there. We're building that up so that we don't have a huge Hit that year. So you basically get another truck every year just about a little more Yeah, well now it's one in a one on a seventh. I guess I should say Yes, that's right And that used to be a I was always hung up on that How many trucks does it's town the size of willowson need eight? It just seems like a lot, but The answer is is we do well it's based on the number of miles of road We have to be in the service service quality, right the quality of service And 46 is the large highway equipment just shows you the rotation on the equipment And actually we have the excavator coming up in 2020 which is a fairly large So when you say this this defines the rotation So the the years shown and the equipment shown those are the years you're buying that particular equipment. That's what that is That's correct. This is subject to change every year based on This is just the projection, okay Interesting. I see the sidewalk plow there which may have to Doesn't anticipate to yet does it The way Bruce presented it before he says if we were to do this we'd need a second truck. I didn't hear the Be patient Ten years ten years, thanks Highway pickup replacement is page 47 And that's just exactly what it is to replace the pickups that we use in our fleet 48 buildings and facilities mower replacement Once again pretty self-explanatory just for the mowers equipment to choose it around the buildings and grounds Just so I remember this does not include the cemetery. They have their own equipment does not include the cemeteries Or parks. Oh, not parks either. Okay So so these actually define the lifetimes of these so the Kubota Is a 2017 you replace it in 27 year life? Or is that what that tells me Okay It's pretty comprehensive Thank you And here's 49. Here's the sidewalk. There we go next year Maybe what what is happening here is every year Bruce has been proposing it and every year I've been pushing it back Largely because we haven't really needed it yet But we want to keep it on there because eventually if we keep adding more sidewalks to maintain we are going to need it Okay, did I get that right? Yeah, you're right and we actually are we're at the tipping point at this I mean it depends how fast you want sidewalks done I mean we could have we could have you know one machine that's working three or four days after a storm But I wouldn't recommend it. I mean it's kind of useless What can I can you explain why why it would be useless? By the time by the time you get around a pound of sidewalks are going to be all trampled down It's the things are going to be freezing. It's going to be harder to move the snow I mean there's lots of you're not really benefiting the people that are trying to walk on the sidewalks If it takes you three or four days to get there to do them First let me ask the other critical question of if we get a new sidewalk plow, does that mean we need additional staff? Of course Need someone to drive it. But yeah, that's that's my I guess my point which is part of the operation we have to have one more But honestly, I'd love to have you know if you if we did that You know we have when we plow snow everybody on highway is in here plowing snow Including the foreman who's in a plow truck Who in my opinion would be much much better off being in his 4x4 pickup truck Going around helping the guys and making sure that the jobs are getting done right rather than being one of the people that are out There in a truck So I mean I would tell you that we're really At some point it would be nice to have one more person than we need in a plow piece of plow equipment And that way too if somebody's sick on vacation or whatever you have something to put in there The guys I just want to put a plug in here The first couple storms in november Just so you know, you know, we were down to four and five trucks sometimes Sometimes four trucks where we're normally doing seven and we should have eight on the road so We did get a little behind Because of that, but the guys actually did a hell of a job to in my opinion for being like that and worked without complaint So and some of the workers we have are relatively new And Good, but thank you for because that they do it a little slower Our efficiency isn't there that we normally have it. We'll get back there. Yeah, good. Well, good job. Tell them. Thank you So that's the second sidewalk plow in there Can change at your pleasure 50 is intersection upgrades. This is a uh, it's not even going to be $20,000 Um, we found out regional planning is actually going to be able to do this for us So we're only going to have to have a match and I believe we just found out their cost is $15,000 or a match to that It's a couple thousand. So this is actually going to change a little bit, but we just found that out recently so And that that that intersection upgrades it's kind of you know, we say intersection upgrades What it really is is our equipment and our lighted intersections is getting quite old Antiquated we can't do some of the things that are being done today because of the equipment and controllers 51 is portable traffic signals. We got half of this money last year. This is just to get the other half We can stop having flaggers put more people to work We're doing certain projects and that's it The final question is regarding the capital budget Yes As we've done in past years we've provided With a list of possible changes to the budget Both on the revenue side and expenditure side These are not staff recommendations necessarily although I do have a recommended column and I have added one item in there that is recommended at this point And we'll probably have others as we go forward We're recommending but I just these are all takeaways Okay, out of the budget not necessarily now. There are some additions For example line 19 Good night. There's a gmt bus service. We we know that there's we haven't yet received their budget But there is an addition there Oh, there's a couple at the top too. Yeah, and some of the items are here mainly Not because they have much of an impact But because I there's certain policy issues for example line 18 Town clock lease that is a new concept And it'll just take a minute to explain We just recently paid $20,000 towards replacing Part of the structure that the town clock Is in the federated church and the the concept here is rather than Do Every 20 years or so pay a big sum of money is to pay a small amount each year as a lease and With the understanding that we won't be paying for any more improvements to the building So I've run the concept by some church officials They seemed interested in talking about it and So I wanted to highlight that as an issue here because I I believe Somewhere in the budget. Yeah under outside services. I do have a thousand dollars in there to pay for that lease I like the whole church versus state separation or you know getting getting rid of that Well, I mean it's still there Because we're leasing space rather than giving them $25,000 That was kind of my thought too, but okay, so anyway, um And Under line 25. I didn't put a dollar amount That's it would skew all the numbers because it's like 1.4 million and it's not it's There is a policy issue because that's going to require a bond vote anyway But I I do feel like it was important to list that Oh, so this is this is a fire truck Well, it's yes, it's every board one's the one that replaces the two. Okay, but When I I'm sorry, just want to solve fire apparatus replacement I thought that might be more the equipment that they need to purchase on You know for the truck now. This is the truck. Okay Or trucks so Uh, so that's the list and we'll be looking for some guidance from the board On either specifically on these issues or Maybe some general guidance and then we can come back with a list of Recommendations. So do we have detail on all of these various things? I know some we saw we saw fire. They're in the budget They're all all in the budget. Okay And we'll be discussing after we get through The next meeting and start to look at what we want to do As far as adjustments if anything and the other Point I want to make is if at any point as we go through a budget, there's something that you want to Come back to talk about Consider cutting Just let us know at the time so we can add it to this list I this list is made up of mostly items that are new to the budget Um And like I said, there's some policy issues in here as well. I mean the whole budget is a policy issue, but For that matter, but uh That's how we came up with this list anything that was see like something new like a new position New piece of equipment paving of the sidewalks for example is new to the budget and that's in here So, uh, that's how we came up with this list. Okay, it might be I mean, maybe it's it's probably obvious But if I look through the list, I see the top you have by department The bottom you just say capital you don't show by What department? I guess maybe most of them are easy fire station Right Most of it works Yeah, it should be relatively self-evident Can I ask where is the old school house? That's the one on the green That I just talked about before The white building that you know where the gazebo is. Yes. Well going north of that You'll find this big white school house that The school house drive goes around it. There's a driveway that goes into it I just it's there and I just don't even notice that Take a look at it and you go out If that's some open houses and stuff there As bruce said that we maybe should be calling it the stove pipe Rick just real quickly. I'm sorry that the Administration salaries and benefits under fire. Is that for the position that ken was advocating for which is the fire marshal Fire inspector or guy. Yes persons. Okay, and benefits. It's also part of that. That's what I figured the benefits Okay, and and The the other side of that issue is the revenue. You'd say yes, and that's just as a revenue potential addition So the benefits per fire person is 25,000 For all the benefits for that one individual. Yes So we have a firefighter EMT as well as a fire marshal. So yeah, yeah But your wow was just a third of You know a third of their salary Is not a well well the compensation package or a quarter of their compensation package is benefits. Yeah First item up. I'm not going to have much of a report but um Since we have jennifer here Do you mind is there anything you want to comment on the financial report for this? Any indication on the retail situation for tax corners for Going into the end of the year Do we have any indication? How frequently do we find out? You talk about local option tax. Yes, we get quarterly So we wouldn't find out until next year Well, that'll be Was it february or sorry? Okay And the only other thing to touch on to the latest of the hour here is that the finance director recruitment process We have received about 48 49 Wow applications for the position we've narrowed it down to about 10 We're trying to further narrow that down to about six We should be doing finishing that tomorrow. We're going to be doing some short telephone interviews with the About five people four four people tomorrow and Then after that we'll narrow it down to about six and then we've Scheduling the first round of interviews january 11th just on friday and Which we'll call it. I have um outline anyway, um, we have several staff people and involved in that process along with The finance director from the community Jennifer's not involved in interviewing Very placement. No, although she is making herself available to answer questions from any of the candidates Which is very much appreciated Um, we we also appreciate all the work. She's doing Um at these meetings and she was in all day yesterday Um at the same time doing another full-time job So hopefully and trying to have a family life on top of that. So we are very appreciative of that Um, we are compensating. Yes. Okay. That's good Wait, isn't this one of those things where it's like you either do the willison job Your your new job or you have a family life picked to any two, you know Doing it all And so after the first round We're going to we'll have a final round and I um, I believe joy has volunteered to participate in that part of the interview process. So That'll be Hopefully later in january when we get that schedule, which is according to the original schedule I had set out So we're on schedule so far That's all I had for this evening and this is our last meeting of the year So We're happy new year. Yes. Thank you. You're the other business to be brought forward tonight If not, then Merry christmas. Happy new year. So we'll see you on the eighth that six three in the evening 6 30 It will be here. Yes Because we we have general administration. We have to still get to and A few other budgets we have water sewer And storm water, which we don't even have done yet. We just we're just now getting some of the rates in for those Yes So anyway, if there's no other business, then