 Aloha, welcome to Cooper Union. What's happening with human rights around the world? I'm Think Tech Live, streaming from our downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii, in Juan and Nuiakea. I'm your host, Joshua Cooper. In today's episode, we're looking at civil society demanding human rights in the USA, child wellbeing around the world, looking at people powers ability to promote peace and public policy. Today, we're featuring three amazing advocates who are sharing with us their work at the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, but also continuing that work into the UNGA. Joyce, thank you so much for joining us. And could you share with us why you thought it was so important to participate in international human rights advocacy and how did you begin? Hey, Josh, thanks for having me. Well, I thought it was important because I understand that the U.S. cannot police themselves. And we needed someone outside of the United States of America to look at the harm that they've been doing for an extreme amount of time to black and brown bodies, especially black bodies, since we were forcefully brought to this country. Right now, New York Family Court is celebrating the enactment of the Family Court Act, which has brought great harm to black and brown people in the world of family policing that they call child welfare when there's no welfare for the children and or family members. It is toxic and traumatic. The outcomes for people who become entangled in that system is horrific and it's very likely that they will be catapulted into other systems of harm. And so for that reason, I came to ask for a beg for help in holding America accountable for the things that they do to families that are harmful under the guise of protection. Thank you so much. And Angela, what would you say to that question? Josh, thanks again for inviting us tonight. I'm really excited to share with your community about some of the efforts that we've been making. The reason I decided to join this wonderful team and go to Geneva is to look at other ways and other avenues to bring attention, to highlight the troubles, the challenges and the brutality that is inflicted on black families in the United States by the Child Protective Services, so-called child welfare system. I thought it was really important to take the opportunity to bring the conditions that black families are living under to the world stage so that we would have additional leverage when we go to the United States government directly to raise these issues, right? We did not, as Joy said, the government is not going to police itself. And we've already started to see some traction from us having been there in Geneva in access to people at those higher levels that have the influence and the power to make change. So I think that it was a really great opportunity and not only that, it was a wonderful opportunity to connect with other civil society organizations from around the nation and indeed from around the world because we know that there's strength in numbers and we were able to make many, many allies and connections while we were there. Thank you so much. And Shereen, how about you? How about your reason to get involved with international human rights advocacy? Yeah, thanks so much, Josh. It's good to be here with you and always so great to share space with both Angela and Joyce. Here in the US, we talk about issues of discrimination and harm against families by the child welfare or family policing system. We talk about those as civil rights violations and it was really important for us to start naming what this is, right? At its core, these are human rights violations. People do not deserve to be discriminated against or targeted by inequitable laws and practices by these systems. And so it was really important that we start lifting up this narrative and calling this what it is which are human rights violations. And the US has not signed onto or ratified many treaties but this was one that they have both signed onto and ratified. And so it offered us a really good avenue to raise the issues of discrimination and the harm against black and indigenous children and families by this system. We saw that open opportunity and we ran with it. So we're excited to have come together in Geneva to talk about these issues and also with the results that we had. And I'm looking forward to sharing a little bit more about that. No, and I love the way really that Angela framed it because it is true when you go there it is civil society leaders bringing specific suggestions on the ground to improve child welfare and domestic public policy but also the general wellbeing around the world because as you participate at CERD as you participate at the UN General Assembly it allows for US NGOs to really shape multiple multilateralism human rights mechanisms and to mount and maintain as you shared that moral pressure on the world stage. And when you thought about all the angles too you really did highlight them, Angela. I was gonna ask when you came to the UN and when you participated at CERD what you accomplished but there are so many levels that we can look at. One is connecting with fellow civil society. The other is connecting with those 18 members of CERD who look at racial discrimination around the world. And then the other is actually connecting with US government officials who are there who are responsible for the national implementation. So maybe starting again going back to Joyce could you share what were some of the results or impact of participating in CERD that you would like to share and how we'll follow up? Some of the results was connections to people on the federal level. Another one was the report that came out that solidified their understanding to what we testified about. And just feeling like there's an opportunity for someone to hold them accountable because they will never be accountable on their own. Thank you, it's true. And your testimony definitely did break through some of the conversation aspects and it showed human rights defenders engaging in these UN human rights treaty bodies really do show the specific public policy that's necessary. That's also in the best interests of the child even according to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which we haven't ratified yet. As you pointed out, we've only ratified three of the 10. So we have a lot of work to do. Angela, what was a highlight for you participating at CERD and some of the impacts that you could see during that one week process in Geneva? Yeah, again, going back to what Joyce said it was really about connections and results. And so making connections with other civil society members and organizations that we're also following up with to connect this issue of family policing to some of the other issues that were raised like reparations, like criminal legal justice issues like reproductive rights issues and on and on and on. So we're having those conversations as well. Before we even left Geneva, I can tell you we were already emailing and trying to set up meetings with some of the US officials and some of those outreach efforts have already started to come to fruition. We've had some meetings with some high level officials one of whom was at Geneva and others who are connected to this work here in the States and we're looking forward to more conversations to start to really manifest the concluding observations that CERD made with regard to reviewing the federal laws that impact the family policing system in black and brown families and indigenous families as well as creating platforms and opportunities for public hearings for black families to document their on the ground experiences and the impacts of the system. So really excited to keep that moving. And I would also say that we've been able to connect with the report that was issued by the working group of experts on people of African descent from their session on children of African descent in which the anti-black racism in the American child welfare system was also an issue and was also given prominence in their report. So looking forward to making those connections as well. Angela, thank you so much for really illustrating how U.S. civil society and frontline defender directly impact by sharing their stories and then developing specific strategies to promote and protect children's rights and not only talking about the CERD review but also the UN Human Rights Council special procedures and being able to meet with them. We can then see of course the impact though with CERD and it is great that you began doing it before you even left Geneva. Shereen, could you share a bit about what your experience was at CERD that week and some of the direct impacts you could see already that we're developing from this week? Yeah, I mean, it was an amazing experience but just backing up a little bit. Previously, this committee had mentioned in its concluding observations the separation of migrant families at the border and it had mentioned the separation of indigenous children and families but it had never really taken a holistic look at discrimination in general in the U.S. child welfare system and it really had it looked into the experiences of black children and families. And so just by having them agree to include this topic as a theme in this year's review was an incredible success, I think. And we wrote a shadow report that we submitted to CERD in advance of Geneva and having the committee read some of those questions that we asked of the U.S. and listening to that and being able to witness that in person I think was a really big deal. I mean, we didn't get responses that we wanted but we expected that. But I think again, that's another success having those questions asked and then the concluding observations which I love the framing of them because basically the first line was like thank you for acknowledging the racism but now let's get to work and do something about it. And so that's what we came for. We came for action and results and that's what we're excited to push forward. And you really did summarize it. So well, there are sort of five phases to participate out of CERD. In first is preparation and that's meeting with each other, drafting the legal language coming up with your strategy. Then after the preparation it's the interaction. It's taking that shadow report as you call it the stakeholder report and giving it to those 18 experts and we have many breakfast briefings and meetings with them as well throughout the week. Then it's actual consideration that six hours to see the grueling grilling of the government but as you did say, sort of a lacking in response in many aspects, but that important part was to see your words then being uttered by those CERD members recognizing the wisdom of the work that you've done. And then as you did say, there was just the adoption just on the 30th of August. And now we are at the next phase. Now we have the biggest meeting of the world, sort of the Super Bowl of Social Justice taking place in New York, the UN General Assembly and the UNGA as it's known as traditionally the biggest diplomatic occasion of the calendar year. They share numbers of country represented making a true global event. And what was exciting is one of the first steps we took was you participated also in a UNGA side event on Tuesday, 20 September. And this New York summit is the first to be held in person after two years of pandemic induced virtual and hybrid meetings, but it was great to have the seventh annual UN SDGs in global human rights meeting. Could you share why you think it's important to participate in this global festival of ideas and making sure that once again with Biden taking center stage on Wednesday that the world hears from the people about what matters most and how we can make sure that the US when it gives speeches about being a model to the world that it actually lives up to that promise. Joyce, what would you like to share and what are your next steps as we go forward looking at what we need to do with these recommendations that came out of CERN? Let Angela give the next steps. I would say the particulars of the next step, but what I would say is that my next step is to keep the pressure on, to ensure that I continue to speak up, speak out, share my experience and the experience of other families that have been impacted by the system. I think the Biden administration like many other administrations prior to his administration is only looking on the surface and they're acknowledging problems but not giving any concrete information as to how they were corrected. It is not enough for me to hear them say they understand and that they know what the problems are if they won't go the next step and talk about how they will fix them and begin to take action on fixing them. Thank you, Joyce. And moving on to Angela, maybe you can share which members of the delegation spoke about following up and which national agencies or also Congress and local human rights cities angles as well might be potential paths for positive public policy. Sure. Thank you. And also thank you, Jonathan. I'm sorry, Joshua. So many Jays. Joshua for inviting us and having us engage with others on the panel, the side event. That was a very informative and engaging conversation. We learned a lot and we also made connections during that side event to continue our work on the international stage. I think that we were able to connect with one of the representatives from the Department of Justice, Office of Civil Rights, which is a key representative, a key site for the issue of child welfare. We were able to give him more information, more in-depth information and to connect him with other people that we already knew in other areas of government so that they can begin to have internal conversations and coordinate their efforts as well around the issue of civil rights and human rights in the family policing system. So we're really looking forward to continuing those conversations to build on those connections and that leverage and really make things happen. There's a lot of foment. There's a lot of attention from a variety of different angles from the Joyce, Sirene, and I are also involved in efforts at the local New York City level, at the state level. In fact, just today we were informed that the New York State Advisory Committee to the United States Commission on Civil Rights, a proposal was submitted to the Federal Commission and that proposal to investigate the New York State child welfare system was approved. And so we're going to begin that process of bringing people in to testify about the specifics of the New York State child welfare system. And so, we're coming at it from all angles and we're not stopping. We are insistent and we're persistent and we're dogged and diligent and we're gonna get it done. And it is to see the determination and all of the diplomacy work that you're doing as well as the direct action. And it is true. We have to organize at the community level, at the capital level in Washington, D.C. and then also, of course, at the global civil society level in Geneva. Sirene, what would you like to share about next steps and strategies of how we could pursue going forward to take those recommendations that were issued by the 18 CERD members and to have a positive public policy come forward? Yeah, Josh, we are so grateful that those CERD members heard us. There are so many people here in the U.S. who have not or who refuse to listen. And so there's still so much education to be done and we love being armed with the words from this UN body that has acknowledged the racism, acknowledged the disproportionality and acknowledged the harm to people of African descent and indigenous people. And so having that, along with other various entities and organizations throughout the U.S. who are finally now starting to acknowledge that the child welfare system is a racist system that it harms, you know? I think we're more equipped to continue to educate people about the experiences of Black families with this system. And as a part of that education process, I think we have to identify champions within Congress. They were specifically called out by the concluding observations with a suggestion to hold hearings, including congressional hearings. And so we have some work to do around rallying Congress around educating them on this committee, what it does and the findings and also continue to educate them about the true narratives of the child welfare system. And so I think that's a good next step for us after this upcoming election is to identify some champions in Congress who are willing to do this work with us. No, it's really good to hear exactly where you're focusing and it points out. While UNGA is taking place in the UN General Assembly, the United States is hosting the leaders of the world. It's great to see you working the human rights city's angle and also at the state level in New York because our mayors and our governors love to say how good we are doing, but it's important to make sure that the world knows what is going on and connecting with others who come to UNGA to talk about sustainable development goals and look at no poverty, zero hunger, good health and wellbeing, quality education. Those many points that we talk about that are also enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. But then also, as you said, with our members of Congress as a midterm election is approaching, now's the time to talk to the people who want to serve us and say, what committees will you be serving on and how can you then implement some of these recommendations? I know I was in DC a week ago before UNGA and when I met with my member of Congress on Foreign Relations Committee, I said, are you aware of the SIRD recommendations? And they said, they thought it was like a breath mint. But I said, no, it's a real committee and what are your recommendations? So it's exciting to see what we'll do. And when we look at that then, what do we say to people who aren't involved and how can they get involved and what are we gonna do to make sure these recommendations are reality? Before the next SIRD review happens and also I appreciate your point, Angela, of being on the UNGA side event on sustainable development goals and global human rights, you did get to meet up with member of the UN Permanent Forum on African Descent and being able to link once again another mechanism into the process because they overlap. But then if you organize it all, then it reinforces all the important gains that you made at this most recent SIRD hearing. So how will you think of that choice? Actually, I just feel overwhelmed with all of the many different people that we're meeting and the power that they hold and what it means to our ability to be the leaders of bringing the awareness, not just in the United States, holding the people in the United States accountable but educating people outside the United States to say you shouldn't be following the United States in anything that they do because they are not truthful, they are disrespectful and they create a situation where they can step on the necks of people for being what they've created. Thank you so much, Joyce. And it's important to speak to the power and let the people know exactly what's going on and then most importantly, so we can make sure that it doesn't continue any longer and we have a new direction going forward. Angela. Yeah, I just wanted to make a point that I don't think was really made clear. So Joyce is a person, a mom, a parent who was impacted by the family policing system and she came into this work with her experience as her expertise. And so for people who are watching, for people who might be considering getting into this kind of arena on whatever particular topic that interests them, whether it's environment or whatever it is, right? Just go, just do it, just connect, find out who's doing that sort of work and just show up and get to work and bring whatever expertise you have as your experience. You don't have to be a professional, so to speak or have degrees and all this other kind of stuff. That's all fine and good too, but your experience is expertise and I think that that's really important for all of us and the other point that I would make is that as you mentioned Joyce, I'm sorry, Joshua, our elected officials, right? They're there to represent our interests and so when we go to speak with members of Congress or elected officials in our state, we should go to them as they are our public service. They are there to do the job for us and not that we're coming, you know, hand in hand begging, right? And it's really, really important as Joyce has made clear in so many different contexts that the most important voice in the room is the voice of the people who have been directly impacted by policies, laws and procedures that we're looking to change. I agree too. When we look at multiple different venues where people were able to speak either with the CERG members directly or the consultation with the US government delegation with those two dozen members, it was the voice of Joyce that changed the dynamics in the room and that's what human rights is about. It's making sure that everyone's at the table and you don't need titles. It's your experience that then shapes the aspect and that's one point about human rights as well. We know what is wrong, but more importantly, we know what we want and how to change it because we've lived through the poor policies and have been impacted by what they have done that has not helped in the name of trying to do good. So I think what you brought up there, Angel and what Joyce shared in Geneva, especially with the CERG members, but also I'll never forget that meeting where people demanded, they said, we are your trusted partners. You can't do anything when you go back to DC without us. And they said, I'm not here begging to fill up my bucket. I'm telling you, we are the ones that make things happen on the ground. And so I think that really does frame what we need to do going forward as we look at these next steps. But CERG is an important catalyst to then raise the awareness on the global stage, but now it's for us to make sure that we implement those recommendations and ideas. And Cherine, what do you see going forward in our final minutes? Yeah, I mean, I just think it's so important for people to challenge their understanding of what the system is, right? It's called child welfare, but there are children who die in the child welfare system every single day. There are children who are harmed within this system. And I really think people have to keep an open mind and wanna learn like what truly the child welfare system is and does and the harm that it causes to parents and to children every single day. And I hope that people can be open minded and learning. This is the system that was created in hands and to us, but it's not the one that we have to accept or live with. So there's so much work to be done. And I do hope many people get on board. It's true, when you did speak in Geneva and you did hear from everyone in that room, you cannot help but feel enthralled because the ideas and the initiatives could definitely shape institutions in our country and doing it the right way. That's based on what people are calling for, not on some academic perspective or historical one that has only really disempowered generations and has taken us in the wrong direction for what we demand in this democracy. I want to thank all of you for joining today and taking time out of your very busy schedules. I know New York is a busy, busy place and I know you're even in another city working on these important issues, but I look forward to partnering with all of you going forward to implement these recommendations of CERD, but more importantly, to participate every year at UNGA, to participate at the UN High-Level Political Forum on Sustainable Development Goals. And as you highlighted as well, the Department of Justice said they were looking at sustainable development goals and we can look at what we can do going forward. So Mahalo, thank you again for all the work in Geneva, but more importantly, all the work that you've done for a lifetime of liberation for all of humanity. Mahalo. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.