 Awesome. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Roots Week 2020, the fierce urgency of now. Thank you for joining us. Before we get started, let's have our language justice partners, Bonsha Linguas, walk us through our language access. Hello and welcome to Roots 2020, the fierce urgency of now. Thank you for joining us. Before we get started, let's invite our group or our collaborator, Bonsha Linguas, to talk about the interpretation. My name is Lila, and my pronouns are she and she. And I'm here with my colleague and interpreter, Maria Luisa. Her pronouns are she. We are members of the Lenguaje Bonsha Linguas, based in Bulbancha, Louisiana. Greetings. My name is Lila. My pronouns are she and they. And joined today by my comrade and co-interpreter, Maria Luisa, whose pronouns are she. We're members of Bonsha Linguas, language justice collective, based in Bulbancha, Louisiana. Bulbancha is the word chock-to, which means the land where many languages are spoken. Bulbancha is the chock-told word, which means the land where many languages are spoken. As language justice workers, we try to create space so that everyone here can understand and understand the language in which we feel most powerful. This language justice workers, we strive to create space for everyone here to understand and be understood in the language in which we feel most powerful. Please speak at a slow and steady pace. If you are speaking too fast, you will see us make this hand signal, which means to slow down, and we invite you to do this as well. Thank you. It may be hard to see us on your screen, so we ask that you please keep an eye on the chat. We send a message asking you, and we may send a message asking you to slow down. Please speak at a slow and steady pace. If you are speaking too fast, you may see us make this hand signal, which means to slow down, and we invite you to do this as well. Thank you. It may be hard to see us on your screen, so we ask that you please keep an eye on the chat. We ask that you send a message asking you to slow down. Speak loudly and clearly. If you have headphones with a mic, please use them. We will make this hand signal if we can't hear you, and you're all invited to do the same. We will send a message to the chat. Speak loudly and clearly. If you have headphones with a mic, please use them. We will make this hand signal if we can't hear you, and you're all invited to do the same. We will send a message to the chat. Keep your mic on mute when you are not speaking. And one speaker at a time. Interpreters can only interpret one voice at a time, and we don't ever want to be in a position of having to decide which voice to privilege over another. Una persona a la vez les interpretes solamente pueden interpretar una voz a la vez y nunca queremos estar en la posición de tener que decidir cuál voz privilegiar sobre otra. Y ahora vamos a encender la plataforma para la interpretación. And now we will turn on the interpretation platform. Wendy, if you could turn on the feature for us. Si estás usando una computadora, vas a ver un icono de globo al pie de tu pantalla con la palabra interpretación. Haz clic sobre él y selecciona el canal de tu lenguaje preferido, inglés o español. If you're using a computer, you will see a globe icon at the bottom of your screen with the word interpretation. Click on it and select the channel with the language of your choice, English or Spanish. Si están usando un teléfono inteligente o una tableta, busca tres puntos que lean más. Haz clic y te aparecerá una lista. Haz clic sobre interpretación, selecciona inglés o español y luego haces clic sobre finalizar. If you're using a smartphone or a tablet, look for three dots that read more. Click on it and it will prompt a list. Click on interpretation, select English or Spanish, then click done. Todes, cuando hagan su selección verán una opción para silenciar audio original y que le permite escuchar solo la voz al intérprete. Si deseas escuchar el audio original en un volumen más bajo en el trasfondo, puedes quitarlo del modo en silencio y puedes agregar en cualquier momento o puedes regresar en cualquier momento para cambiar tu selección. Everyone, when you make your selection, you'll see an option to mute original audio, which allows you to hear only the voice of the interpreter. If you'd like to hear the original audio at a lower volume in the background, you may leave it unmuted and you can go back at any moment to change your selection. Y es posible que sea difícil vernos en tu pantalla, so así que le pedimos que le echen un ojo al chat por si enviamos un mensaje pidiendo que vayas más despacio. And again, it may be hard for you to see us on your screen, so we ask that you please keep an eye on the chat in case we send a message asking you to slow down. Now, Wendy, would you assign one of our interpreters, María Luisa, to the channel? Now let's try this out together. Click on the button that says Spanish. Everyone on the zoom line. This will take you to the Spanish channel. And in a sec, you will hear my co-interpreter, María Luisa, interpreting into Spanish. If you can't hear my co-interpreter in the Spanish channel, we invite you to send a message via chat box. Y esto es muy importante. Solamente las personas que entienden español e inglés pueden permanecer en la línea sin interpretación. Si eres bilingüe en español e inglés, siéntate libre de cambiar de idioma cuando estás hablando. Solo pedimos que no cambies de idioma en medio de una oración. Y recuerda, no sufres en silencio. Si hay algún problema con la interpretación, por favor déjanos saber en el chat o envía un mensaje a las anfitriones. Crear un espacio bilingüe virtual es una experiencia nueva y requiere paciencia para ir más lentamente para así poder terminar juntas. Gracias al equipo de Alternate Roots que hizo esto posible y gracias por tu compromiso de aprender con nosotres. Y para quienes nos acompañan hoy, por favor sepan, por el livestream, por favor sepan que estamos proveyendo interpretación de la español al inglés y del inglés al español. Para acceso de lenguaje, por favor envíen un mensaje al chat de transmisión en vivo y nuestro equipo técnico les enviarán un enlace a cual pueden acceder. Awesome, thank you so much, Banta Linguas, for your walk with us as we get through, as we go through trying to be more committed to language justice. We appreciate you growing with us and if you're watching on the live stream and you need Spanish interpretation, let us know in the chat and we'll grant you access to the zoom. Now, our Alternate Roots mission. Alternate Roots is an organization based in the Southern USA whose mission is to support the creation and presentation of original art in all its forms. Rich is rooted in a particular community of place, tradition, and spirit. As a coalition of cultural workers, we strive to be allies in the elimination of all forms of oppression. Roots is committed to social and economic justice and the protection of the natural world and addresses these concerns. There was programs and services. Alternate Roots is supported by the generous donations from our gracious members, private individuals, and funders, including the National Endowment for the Arts, Ford, Mellon, Serna, and the Doris Duke Foundation. If you are watching this live stream and want to be engaged, click on the bubble in the right corner of the video that will activate the chat stream. If you're having other issues, reach out in the chat and we'll have someone assist. So our gender equity workgroup reminds us to all change our profile or chat name to include our pronouns. And if you're watching in from the live stream, you will need to refresh your screen so that you can rename yourself with your pronouns. We acknowledge that we benefit from the wealth created from the forced removal of indigenous peoples across this continent that is called Turtle Island. We pay our respects to indigenous peoples past, present, and future who are the stewards of these lands. We also acknowledge enslaved Africans stolen from their homelands whose forced labor helped to build this country. The ancestors and descendants of these people have and continue to weave the fabric of our culture. As we grow through the work of decolonization, we invite you to learn with us about the lands where you where we currently live and where you currently live personally and build relationships at the speed of trust as we move from acknowledgement to action. Now as you're adding your pronouns dropping the chat where you're zooming in from I'm here from the hunting lands of the Eastern Cherokee. If you know the names of the indigenous people who are stewards of the land you're currently occupying drop that in the chat too. If not, we invite you to learn about land acknowledgement. We'll go ahead and drop a link to nativelands.us in the chat for me. Let's go over our community agreements. I'm not going to go too deep into them but a quick reminder that no matter how roots convenes, whether in space or virtually we do so under the guidance of our community agreements. Someone is going to drop that link in the chat for your reference is extensive, but it's fair and it keeps us all together and own the same page. Now I want to also name our wellness committee. They are extending a reminder, if you will, they remind us to take care of ourselves while we're in this virtual space. So grab some water, some snacks is needed take your breaks. All of that is encouraged so that we can continue to sustain here virtually. I'm going to bring Wendy into the space for a few more grounding words. Thank you, Lauren. Welcome to everyone. We come in today with with heavy hearts. We know that 2020 was not the year that most of us expected it to be. We are dealing with so much loss. And so much injustice in our world. And I think that the last two weeks has really just brought that all home. But since March we've been grieving our community. We've had losses from COVID-19 and all of the residual things that have been lifted up and amplified because of loss of work loss of insurance loss of housing. We want to name today that we're also reeling from the compounded injustices. And then people are not held accountable for their violence. We want to uplift the names of people that we've lost. And we want to hold in our hearts, the people that are dealing with the grief, the remembering. And this week, we've lost people that were very close to us on our team. We want to be who's impact is felt across the region. And we want to name that we have teammates who have lost family members this week. And so we come holding all of that weight. And so tonight, we want to hold some space for us to collectively breathe together to grieve together. To honor and uplift the names of the people that we've lost. The names of the people that were holding and renew our commitment to our community to make sure that we're checking on each other, holding each other tight, loving on each other. So I want to bring Leticia in who is going to help us really ground in all of those things and more. Peace and blessings. Blacks flow. My name is Leticia. I'm so grateful to be able to hold space for us as family. I use she they and I'm calling in from Acoquisa lands Houston, Texas. I want to begin by just giving thanks to the most high, whatever name and manifestation that may be may we all give thanks in this moment. Allow yourself to really, really feel comfortable and supported where you are wherever you're seated. You feel your back supported. And you feel your bottom cushioned. You feel even the tongue supported as it lays softly in your mouth. And I want to give to you to give thanks to the way that our beloveds continue to weave this tapestry of stories this ancient technology of knowledge and revolutionary love. I had to start with a story. Just flow with me here. Oh, my mother's a twin and her twin brother, my uncle Arnold cultivated this deep passion and love for books and reading. And my queer Chicano gay uncle left Texas, left his family of migrant workers to with his brilliant mind go to MIT. And he would send me these, these books from his apartment in Roxbury, Massachusetts, my little 10 year old self Southwest Houston. And send me these books on African, African American historians and would have conversations with me about May Day and workers of the world uniting. And to this day like I love books so much I walk into someone's home and when I see their books it's like I fall deeper in love with them. And books are this own, this own thread of fabric that nits us together. And I think back on my relationship and all the conversations that I had with Alandria, and this amazing fabulous collection of books that this person had and I would go into their apartment and be like hey can I borrow this and of course Alandria was like no. Maybe I'll buy a copy for you or at the time I was living in Knoxville so that lovely human was even like maybe I'll give you a ride to McKay's use bookstore and you can go get your own coffee. And I just, I just, there's these moments where you, you just see imbalances of other people who are your beloveds in each other because we're all reflections of one another. So in times when it's I'm really at a loss of my own words are making sense of the worlds and the universe and the divine I go right back to my books. And in this bruja motion there's this idea of divination through books so calling upon the books to reveal themselves to you just open it up and that's exactly what you needed in that present moment to see right. In the last 48 hours, the books that I've recently picked up that are leading me into this flow are the places that scare you a guide to fearlessness and difficult times by Pema children and spider speculations by our dear Joe Carson and his ancestors are like, hey, you're never alone. I'm right here with you. Yeah, that mask can be via mentioned that grandmother's hands and I immediately had to go find it. And this is just this like ancient technology right all these reminders know. And, and so I had to write down notes because I was like emotions. And my in in my in. They say that, you know, the colonists have lots of stories of destruction and rebuilding, but those who are the keepers of the land we have stories of creation. Right. And in my in cosmology we talk of each shell the goddess of the moon and the water and the weaving of childbirth the spider woman who sings the web of the universe into being. So in this Elandria, I feel like created all of these amazing webs. Like right now I can feel the energy across the world. Of this web. And I just imagine as the spiders web catches the morning do this beautiful art of interconnectedness. It's very vibrant and extravagantly get Lee interconnected. She introduced the art of weaving to the people. So right now, and just ask you again to find that support in your seat in your space. You can close your eyes or soften your gaze. Do any organic movement that feel feels like it's calling you and then again come back to the stillness. Take a deep breath in. And as you exhale begin by feeling your feet rooting into the earth. Feel the connection of your pelvis, even with the floor. And with your next exhale locate yourself in this room. Locate your sit bones connecting to your seat, your next out breath. Lift your crown to the sky. And as you inhale lift your heels up off the floor. And then as you exhale gently place them underneath you. If they're not there already. Since the presence of your breath flowing through your body. Since the presence of your breath filling up the space that holds you on an in breath float your shoulders up. And on an out breath roll and ease them down your spine. Feel the full expansion of your chest. Open and exposed in your heart space with your inhale and in your link. Fill a sense of inherent dignity. What inherent dignity means is it is something that cannot be given to you. And therefore it cannot be taken away. Now in your with I want you to sense the relationships. Feel the space and then all the people that surround you. I'll take an awareness of your body and your back body, your front body and your back body. All the way through eyes on the horizon knows it notice the generations in front of you. And fill your ancestors behind you with a strong back and a soft belly. Take up the space. That is your depth. Finally, I want you to drop your attention and your center of gravity down into your belly. Connect to what matters. You don't have to save the world. Just to connect to what matters to you. Fill your openness and expansiveness here. Right now. In this moment. Use breath to shift any places that feel stuck or uneasy. Deep breath in. Exhale, let something go. And then place your palms together, rub your hands together slightly and then begin to warm them up a little bit more just awakening your body. And take close hands and place them over your heart, fill your heart, fill your palms. Breathe in so deep. You're breathing in that love to all those around you and can sense their love being sent directly to your heart. Thank you. Love y'all. Thank you. Love you. Thank you for that, Leji. I thought it was a good time to talk about how this curation came to be. How did we come up with these particular conversations? Of course, you know, when we first started thinking about Ruth's week, we were thinking about it from a physical point of view, then COVID happened, and we went straight to virtual. We reached out to a few people. Not a few people. People had already applied to participate in Ruth, so we had presentations, but those presentations were going to need to be shifted because of the state that we're in. So I really want to talk to this particular theme. I don't think I had an opportunity to really introduce myself. My name is Lauren Fitzgerald. I go by she, her, hers, they pronouns. I had the absolute pleasure of co-curating Ruth's week alongside Indy Mitchell. He has been an amazing organizer and colleague as we move to curate this programming for this very special Ruth's convening. This theme resonated with me even before COVID or even the uprisings. I grew up in Memphis, and so I grew up in a space where Dr. Martin Luther King was heavily talked about through the dark history of his murder and assassination in Memphis. So I've heard these words before and never, never in a moment in history that I've lived through have they resonated more so now. This theme this year, the fierce urgency of now, we hope to have creative experiences where folks will gain inspiration, motivation and knowledge to act fiercely urgently and now. I often kid about the time construct, time is where your mind is. So now, not necessarily being, being the time now, but being the urgency, being now as an adjective, right, what is now meaning in your body, how does now. So thinking about now, you know, in a space where we kind of bend it to mean to describe a point of reference is something that we were really playing with. So we formed a panel to vet these presentations some of you served on the panel so thank you so very much. We had conversations with the presenters, presenters backed out presenters threatened the back out because of COVID. We begged we pleaded we paid attention to how they talked about their work. And the way we curated it was within the three weekends the first weekend is the fierce weekend, and is based off of our interpretation of how these presenters presented their work to us. The second weekend is urgent, and then it leads into the third weekend, which is now which is really focused in youth and technology and what is the future. So, and we also want to center voices that were being grossly marginalized black trans women are dying at a disproportionate rate. You know, you can't get justice for sleeping in our beds and just being and getting shot and killed. So we wanted to center some voices that don't necessarily get centered in these conversations that your major conventions and convening. So I hope that you have appreciated how this has been curated. I hope you've appreciated the workshops, the pollinations, the, the conversations that are being had, and I hope you feel motivated to take this and do something in communities, do something in your world to actually move the needle on justice, because we need it. So with that being said, I'm going to pass it to my brother Joe. I really want to talk about all of the panel because I love everybody on the panel. But I'm going to toss it to Joe so he can round us and get us started with our conversation around the fierce urgency of now this evening and cheers because this is a, this is a happy hour conversation. So cheers. Joe. Yeah. Hey y'all. Joe Talbert for access. I'm wearing a black shirt and a black hat with glasses with white words that say worthy. And as many of you all know, on Wednesday evening, we lost Alandria Williams, an amazing mentor teacher friend to many of us. And I met Alandria when I was 19. As a participant to the seeds of fire camp that he used to run. And there was something about that space that made me want to do more of it experience more of it. And so that started a multi year decade or more friendship mentorship and accompaniment. And I'm just now learning really what all I have learned from Alandria. And one of the, one of the last things that Alandria left us all was a poem that they posted to their Facebook called we are worthy. And when you know somebody, because I'm 32 now, I'll let y'all do the math, because I'm not good at it. And I have a cocktail right now. So after all of those years. You go through changes with each other. And one of the changes that I noticed in our conversations over the last year and a half was that I was always reminded through our work at People's Hub that it is just as important how you do the work and not just only about the work that you do. And one of the things Alandria would always say to me is Joe, we have to keep care at the center. And so I've just been thinking about that a lot and how we are with each other, and how we need to keep care at the center. And so I'm going to share the offering that Alandria shared with all of us via a Facebook status. And the poem is called we are worthy. We are worthy. Not because of what we produce, but because of who we are. We are divine bodies of light and darkness. We are worthy because of what you offered, not because of what is in your mind, not for the support you give others, not for what you give it all. We are worthy and our whole, just because in this great turning in this great pandemic in this radical readjustment and alignment. We are not disposable. We are needed. We are the very people that have withstood everything that has been thrown at us as people, and as Maya Angelou would say, still I rise. We arise from the pain. We rise from the grief. We arise from the limits people place on us and the limits we place on ourselves. We rise to be the children and the ancestors. We rise to be our true selves, our true selves in relationship to our families and communities. Recognizing our liberating and whole selves, honoring them and others as we strive for the abundant communities, abundant lives, abundant relationships and abundant values and cultural manifestations. We are worthyness personified. I, you, and we are worthy and deserve a life where we are not always fighting for our existence. Imagine what we could create if we are not always in the struggle. Imagine what we could envision if we could just be led to just go there. So tired of always having to resist to fight demanding pushing to everyone that has the courage, the power, the ability to co create what we want and need, while rooting in what we can't lose and who we are. You are the visionary. You are the hope. You are our ancestors dream. No, you might not ever end up on some list somewhere, but you are on a list in someone's heart and mind. And if it's in how you move in the world, so people can see by example, you are the embodiment of what we need. Thanks to all that are the embodiment. The embodiment not of productivity, but the embodiment of radical love, care and sanctuary. It is time, embodiment time, embodiment, living ones values out loud. Let me every day live my values out loud. Let us every day live our values out loud. It is time, embodiment time, embodiment, living ones values out loud. It is time, embodiment time, embodiment, living ones values out loud. It is time, embodiment time, embodiment, living ones values out loud. Let me live, let me every day live my values out loud. Let us every day live our values out loud, embodying our values, not the productivity quotient, beyond productivity, past productivity, true embodiment life. So I'm gonna do a very Elandria thing right now, and I'm just gonna ask us all to take a breath, mostly because I need to take a breath. So we can inhale and hold it and exhale. One more inhale, inhale and hold it and exhale. So when I think about the title of our time together, I think it's encapsulated by the end of Elandria's poem. It's time we live our values out loud. And at the moment, I'm struggling for words, but when I think about living our values out loud, I'm thinking about how that brings into a new way of being with ourselves and a new way of being with each other, because we can fight, we can resist, we can fight, we can resist. But I feel that when we embody our values, when we live out our values, when we practice new ways of being and moving in the world, those things can stay where they are, but we're building something new in the midst of it. And so when I think about the first urgency of now, I'm thinking about how we can build while rooting and what we can't lose, and how we take those things that need to be taken forward forward while living and creating something that is antithetical to the ways that we have been conditioned to live, the ways that we are forced to crunch ourselves into these systems that mean nothing but our death and demise. So that's my offering to get it started. And I'm just so thankful that Carpet Bag Theater, one of the founding groups of roots, saw fit to take me two seeds of fire to where my paths could cross with Elandria. My life could be forever changed because they thought enough of me and they saw something in me to know that being in what Elandria called the liberated space of seeds of fire could do for my becoming. And so I just want to say thank you to Linda and Marquez who were in charge of the Tri Ensemble for allowing me this life changing opportunity. So I'm going to stop talking so I can finish crying and turn it over to my comrades, my family, Sage and Nia. Hey, beloved. Yes, please cry. Please cry. Deep love. Hey, Sage. Thank you. Thank you, Joe, for bringing us open, opening us like that. I just want to also, yes, I'm going to breathe because I need to. Just like you, Joe, I met Elandria at a seeds of fire, funny enough. And it was the first thing I've ever did. Like I just joined this organization called Breakout. And basically, sorry, my computer was tripping out. I just joined this organization called Breakout, and they sent me to this thing in Seeds of Fire and I was like, what the hell? What is all this? What am I doing? Like I heard we would organize with the trans folks, like as someone who's like loosely filmed, I'm like trying to find my identity. Let's do it. And I got there and it was one of those moments where I was just like blown away. I was like, oh, there's a whole world out there of things that I don't know about and that I'm also directly impacted by. And Elandria was leading the camp. I was leading the camp in that moment and just was so amazing and so sweet. She definitely had the moments of like, okay, Nia, I see, and I didn't use that name at the time. I'm like, okay, Nia, you're cute and you're nice and all, but I don't think that don't mean I'm going to push you. I don't think that mean I'm not going to ask you the hard questions because you're cute and you're smiling in my face. And just that type of courage to push trans, queer, and black folks to beat our best selves, not to just be like, oh, you're doing so good to really get us to the next level consistently just by engaging with this. It's just kind of at the core of who Elandria was. She was the first person to teach me cooperative economics. She was like studying something. I was like, what does that mean? Like, how can we break all of these systems? And she was like, actually, and funny enough, Leticia, she gave me a, oh, she didn't give me a book, but she lent me a book. It was like a Horton reader or something like that. I don't really remember the exact title. And she was like, you don't learn. And she was studying cooperative economics. And it's because of Elandria that I know that there are systems that exist outside capitalism. And she was one of my funny enough, one of my first mentors. So just the fact that we have very parallel stories, it just shows how, how massive, like, like her touch was and how, how expensive her like love shown throughout our community. And these are different years. I'm sure that this happened in different parts of the country. And she just like, wow, wow, wow, wow. Yeah, she just, it just shows that she has had such an impact just by her time here. I think the last thing that I'll say about Elandria is that she did, and she was, it reminds me too, because Wendy and how connected we all are. Wendy O'Neill was who was also one of my great mentors fellow aquarium love of our like love of it, like person I love. All right, it was one of the first people to help build Caesar fire. And for me to go through that with Elandria there. I mean, now Wendy is my mentor Elandria mentor it just reminds me of how interconnected we all are. And how we literally are seeds of fire is all the seeds we plant grow in so many different ways and who would know that all these years later you and I would be kicking it, having cocktails crying, honoring Elandria. I'm gonna just, you know, I'm gonna just sing our little song was it p o w e r we got the power because we are seeds of fire. So you're gonna have to like record it in a book. I got you, I got you. I'll pick up from something you said, Mia, and I am thinking about that how in our in our lifetime, sometimes in May, we rarely have a sense of the breadth and the reach of ourselves in the work, right. In the work that we're doing because we're in the midst of it and we're doing it, right. And I part of what I hope becomes a practice of ours is like, how do we put the people that we know in conversation with folks who are who are on pedestals or who are considered like visionaries right like, there's something about uplifting this conversation around the fierce urgency of now that for me is putting Elandria in conversation like her words in conversation with the words of Dr. King, which is where they belong, given her influence and her impact in the world. That's where she belongs, right. And the, the, the. And I'm also sitting with the topic like the fierce urgency of now, but also in the ways that what happens now, breeze, I like what happens now. I think we're using the word pollinates, you know, in the, in the, in the roots week right now that it is not always our ability to see that, but it is our community's responsibility to keep people's names in our mouths. It is our responsibility to uplift their impact on us. It's our ability. It's our responsibility to reach out to them and say, you know, I know it was only 15 minutes, but let me tell you how that changed me. Let me tell you how that changed me let me tell you how sitting in a rocking chair or that book you gave me. Let me tell you what that has meant for the trajectory of my life. What that has meant then there's a beautiful, you know, folks do a lot of Octavia Butler references and I am I'm not immune I'm definitely an advocate that says, you know, all the you touch you change all that you change changes you. And I've been really thinking about that a lot lately because all that you touch you change, all that you change changes you. But that also means that all that you touch that has changed you changes the people that you touch. So there's like another next, there's like another next level to, to the ways in which we are are constantly in in inside our own transformation when we can be aware of it, when we can name it, and when we can, when we can water it. The ending you shared Joe. Like how how we be ourselves the end of the poem like what is embodiment time mean how are we living our values. And it was really called to me about how not are we living it, but how do we continue to be transformed and continue to live it more and more deeply. And for me and my relationship with Landry like, I would be like, you know, I'm really curious about this thing and she's like here, I think we're all on the here. I don't I wouldn't have one third of the economic understanding I do if I hadn't, you know, ran into a conversation with the Landry like somewhere like for five minutes, got a book list and then was often running in you know a decade later it's still something that's very resonant in my life and in my work, you know, and I think there's this this invitation in in in the poem in a land in the poem in the in the exemplar of a landry's life. That echoes even in this urgency of now like what are we being urgent about. Very like, what are we being urgent about and for me, this is is really hitting like, are we being urgent about how we are deepening our embodiment, how we are deepening our connection with each other, and how we are shaping the transformation that is happening as cultural workers and understand our individual transformation has such deep resonance it is it is how culture gets transmitted. You know, and yeah, that's that's sort of what I'm sitting with right now. Yeah, I think use for that stage I think whenever you said like what are we being urgent about. I think that's really important question because particularly now I think more than ever. But we should be being urgent about it's centering our wholeness and our wellness and like maintaining it too. Right. I think some of the best things and I think I say this a little bit so people have heard it before my bad. Like our work can't be like it hits its sweet spot whenever we're doing the organizing work we're doing the organizing practice work. We're developing a leaderful movement, but it only really hits its sweet spot whenever it involves like that healing and wellness. So we have policies that are shifting in campaigns that are happening we're developing leaders along the way. And at the same time we're maintaining the wellness of those leaders and we're sustaining each other as a community. And so for me, I think we we know that we have to organize. I think we inherently leaders are going to be developed just by being in space. We're a result in some ways all of us are result of the people who came before us for me and Joe particularly Elandry in some ways. So we're going to develop leaders, but I think we really have to get to a structural practice of wellness practice. If it being at the top of our conversations and for me that's what I'm interested in being urgent about it. And actually, sometimes we do it really well like we took our time today before we got to this. Y'all know some of the spaces would have been like is the panel. Let's go. But actually this is intentionally in ways that were about easefulness that were about inclusion of language justice and gender equity that took time to ground us. And like it gave us time to mourn. And I think we need to have that replicated across all of our work because if we're not urging around maintaining our wellness and our honours then we're just going to keep fizzling out. We're going to keep. Oh my God. When I land here talks about productivity. That's what I think of too. We're not just here to produce. We're not just here to be part of the pricing work ethic. We're actually here to like be in space with each other to love on each other to have to be radical embodiments of love. And for me that's what I'm interested in being urgent about. And I love that you asked that what is the yeah what are we being urgent about in this moment. And another thing obviously I'm urging about developing black trans leadership sustaining black trans leadership. I think that goes I mean well it doesn't go without saying it so I should say it. I think it makes sense like trans leadership black trans leadership overall. And for me those are the things like centering our wholeness that we're just creating like structural practices that like as me if you're going to talk about campaign if you're going to do a strategic planning you better have a big big big space in that for organizational wellness for individual wellness. And if you're going to be doing a strategic planning or if you're going to be in space with your people you better have your people you better have black trans people you better have black women you better have black films at the table too. I think I'm glad you asked. So you want to jump in. I'm sitting with a lot right now. Oh, I can step in it while you're while you're marinating. I grabbed a book and sit there until it's time to read in the book since that's a general thing tonight. I am so grateful for you bringing in health and wellness me into this and I think one of the things that I'm trying to learn how to do in movement right now, in particular is how to hold the individual in the collective inside time right inside this idea of wellness and well being to be really, you know, to be really honest I know I have been in spaces where I have felt abandoned while folks have felt like I need to care for myself. Right now I'm like, I need to I need this self care and I'm like what the fuck happened to the rest of us right like what happened. How is that, how is that getting a celebration like, you know, you know, and so really kind of thinking about you know how do we, how do we care for ourselves and think about the relationship between what we are doing and how we care for ourselves. And the, the, the larger impact it has on our communities and our closest on our intimate on our communities and and on our on our political beliefs like on what we, what we, you know, think about the world right you know, I often get in reminded in my own household like self care doesn't mean going to buy some oh shit, right like so here for me, you know, and there's nothing wrong, you know, but that they're also if I'm going to talk about back to living my values right, I'm going to talk about the detriment of racialized capitalism. How am I in how am I interrupting that in my own life in relationship to like how I think about care for myself and other folks right. And so I think about like the, that, and, and the reality is we can hold that, like we can hold that complexity that's not to say that like, there's a spectrum like there's one problem, bottom spectrum you stay and you can, and that's where you are right like it's constantly swinging I think the invitation from a land tree the invitation even in, in the, in the piece and that the king is like to be thoughtful about it, right to to, to have a to have a moment like even the whole, the whole speech that the fierce urgency of now that the topic came from is actually King doing a self assessment of where he is not spoken up of where he is not engaged of where he is not gone far enough, right. And, and I think that that that that really that piece is really it for me around like how we think about our engagement I think there's also the I want to be really urgent about our imagination about really really urgent about our ability to dream our time and space to dream and, and I don't know if urgent is the word but it it it feels kind of like the right word. There is a way that urgency lives in the body that I was saying earlier in one of our earlier culture. I'm not a fan of real talk I'm just not a fan of it. You know, it's like if you have to move right you have like 48 hours, you don't actually sift through things you just like throw everything in a garbage bag and take it with you. But we actually have to think about not only what we don't want to lose but what we do want to lose. Oh, so like urgency takes away in some ways takes away the time that we need to figure out what we're not going to take with us. And, and so how do we engage. So that's why I love. Yeah, I love urgency is the word I want to talk about around imagination but I feel passionate and maybe that's actually more and even when I say passionate in relationship with conversation around the land real that feels right. And I was listening to y'all hope on the wellness tip and this thing about the imagination. One of the things since the hashtag is going around a Landria taught us. One of the things that I've learned over this last year and a half is that not only do we need to use the imagination for where we're going and that freedom dream, but we also need to imagine reimagine rather. How we do the work. This moment is happening. And there's no fear or whatever around gathering. Well, if it's truthfully said, we've only imagined the work as being like outward protest or being in the street. And so when I think about my friend, my mentor, it's like, there came a point in time where he could no longer be in the street. But I'm also thinking about if we're talking about care and wellness. How are we reimagining what the work could look like to where we're not throwing people away, because they may need to take time off to heal. They may need to take time off and not be being in the streets in the way that we have come to know the work. And so, for me, part of the imagination is connected to wellness and reimagining in real time. What can we be doing to where all of us are included and none of us have thrown away none of us are left behind, because they can no longer do the work in the ways that we have made it in the way that we do the work. And so I've been thinking about that a lot. In my company, I have learned a ton about ableism and disability justice, how it's replicated in our movements and how it leaves a whole group of people behind because we've only imagined the work to be this one thing, this one way. We can only do it when you're out in the streets protesting and and those things are important. So I'm not trying to say that those things aren't important, but we have to expand and grow bigger. If our value is that we all have a place in the work. Then we need to also put into practice the way the work is done that includes everybody being a part of the work. And so, this is a, to you, Myle Thornton's word, this is a long, this is for the long haul, you know, we may get wind, but the system will recalibrate and we have to keep in it. And so also just on a practical level, for us all to stay in it, we have to reimagine how we work so that we can stay in it for the long haul and making an abundance frame to know that if I can't, then what will step in? That I don't have to shoulder this weight all on myself and grind myself to dust. So, yeah, those are the things that are resonating from what you both said in reference to wellness. I love, I just, I just love that so much. I just make, just hearing the word abundance like frame, that just makes me glow. I'm like, yes, how do we operate from that? Thank you for that, Joe. It makes so much sense too. And like for a few reasons, I think like the first thing is that like the being on the streets and protesting is one, one part of a larger thing that needs to be happening. Like there needs to be people who are cooking the food in the kitchen. There needs to be people who are translating. There needs to be folks who are writing policy changes. There needs to be folks that we need to be tapping into creating a leaderful movement so that we see in value all the stuff equally. It's not just the person who gets on the megaphone. It's the person who sages down before we went to the March. It's the person who we came home to and who has some cooler ranch packs, what do they call it? Not cooler ranch. That's the three does the Capri Suns. That's not talking about the Capri Suns, the most goofy. And like really seeing the value in all it's, it's the people who are passing down Miles Horton books. And it's like, we need to have this leaderful movement where we're valuing everybody. I love that you said that. And shout out to our pollination speaker, Camille, who's going to talk a little bit about disability justice. And that's, and so when organizations at this level, regional organizations and national organizations, your conversations should be including disability justice and should be including ableism so we can continue to uplift the inherent value of everybody's contribution. And thank you, Sage, for talking about imagination. What came up for me, too, when you said that, was the role of culture bearers. I think, like artists, right? It's our job to provide that space for imagination. It's our job to, any imagination can think of it as a battlefield in some ways, right? Because we know that the same people who imagined, we know we can think of it as a battlefield. It's necessary that we use our imagination. It's necessary that we dream, because we know what happens when other folks dream. They create whole systems that change and shift and morph over time. Just how slavery comes from, just like how prisons come from slave catchers, right? We know that they create systems that change and morph with their imagination. Their imagination is used to steal labor so they don't have to work. So it's really important for us to actually use our imagination and think of it as a tool that's very necessary for us to creating and addressing like morphing system of oppression and creating our own answers in institutions and practices that are morphing as they need to morph, right? What does it mean for me to maybe start as like someone who is on those front lines and kind of then someone who is able to morph my practices in different places and really being in that spot? And so for me, I think imagination comes from, are the things I think of, are like how we have to think of imagination as a right and a critical right and necessary for us to get where we're going? And I think cultural workers and artists really provide a container for folks to imagine. The healing work does too. When you're doing guided visualizations, you're imagining the world that you want to live in. You're creating that pathway. Like whenever you're doing affirmations, you're reminding yourself of what's inherently valuable. You're recreating that brainwave or that thought. And making space for that newness, right? And so imagination and the last thing I'll say about that is experiments. I think I have a great, I love the like song knowledge chapter because we keep saying when you have to do many experiments to try it. Like Southern Organizer Academy is an experiment that Key Jackson and I started and you know, sometimes we're like, oh wow, we did that interestingly. And sometimes we're like, you know, in all of our work, I'm sure we have to try experiments to kind of get to where we're going. But I would say folks should lean into little experiments, lean into community gardens, like lean into these little moments of like trying something and trying new things. And artists and cultural workers really can create that container where we can imagine something new. Those are the things that came up. And I just, yeah, I'm just really thankful for that. Thank you, Mia. And y'all can see how this goes, right? Like one of us was like, oh, that made me think of, that's pretty much going to be what happens when the three of us get together. And I see some questions in the chat so we'll try and work those in at the same time because I think Mia also just left us, left off with talking about like practice, which is showing up in one of the conversations, one of the questions. I think one of the things that I'm thinking about right now is sort of the thread that both of y'all talking about is what does it mean for our bodies of work to be in relationship with each other? Right, because I don't feel like able to leave in this conversation and not acknowledge that people are dying. Right, like, and I mean, like our friends are dying, like people are dying in the street people being murdered at judicial use. Like, there is a way in which we sort of sometimes separate that over here and cultural work over here. Right, like, and I think one of the things that Alanya was speaking about around like often talk about like what does an integrated movement look like, right, like, what does it mean for us to be folks who are doing direct action folks who are doing agonization, folks who are thinking about economic systems, folks who are thinking about how care happens inside the family, folks who are thinking about how we feed ourselves and food pathways, all to be in concert and working together, both in terms of how we think about the timeline of change, and also what we think about as a mechanism that will create change in real time. Right, this, this, that feels really and I think that is part of Joe, particularly what you said around how do we value things equally, right, to me, understanding that that is a space that movement working for all of us to be there. It feels really important right like I, I, I not only understand my own value I understand my own value in relationship to this, this change that is happening. And so I'm not, I don't need to get you know, I'm supposed to be invited, you know, you don't necessarily crash a party but shit sometimes you got to be like I'm supposed to be here, you know I'm supposed to be here and and as culture workers, we are supposed to be in so many places that a we may not get invited to sing a song at, or you know, see, you know we just invited in so many sort of like side ways that I hope, and I believe that we are moving towards a time when we have a better fullness, a better understanding of what change and transformation requires, and that we not only are inviting each other but that we understand that we are indispensable as part of the, the, this project this experiment this this transformation because I do appreciate this question around practice and experiment in the air because sometimes we feel like the practice is so large we can't get started right experiment invites us into a rhythm. This culture workers I feel rhythm I feel rhythm a lot, you know, like how do we how do we be in the testing in the experimentation. The, there's a rigor to experimentation to right like that, that we are assessing it that we are there some ideas that have pops into testing or trying and that that relationship between cultural work and and practice like it is all part of our practice is all part of our tool gets and it's important for us to be clear to me about the role of our practice in the transformation. Everything is iterative right like we play so much. I mean, like, literally, the work is a matter of life and death, like, we get that right, but to allow ourselves to do a thing to learn to change a thing and that constant growing. Um, and I've been thinking about so I've been in some work with a trans Latinx theologian who wrote this amazing book that ironically enough is siding activist theology and they use this concept of becoming I think so much we try to get to an end goal, but even at that end goal there's more to more beyond that. And so this concept of becoming has been just such a delight to revel in to know that even when I get to where the plan says I need to go that I'm still even at that moment in a process of becoming. So here we see the movement spaces the places where we are creating sanctuary. One stop on a perpetual becoming and that and I feel like so much of our internal mirrors the external and even in our internal world, since we're presenting wellness. How does our internal path of like, how am I constantly doing what I need to stay whole and sustained in the midst of these death building system and how even when I do that it's a perpetual becoming it's a perpetual practice it's a perpetual getting there it's a perpetual going towards this freedom dream and that in our becoming we get a little further and a little further and a little further and so I'm also sitting with that. And how that gets us along the path that that shift of just not an in destination has just been so liberating to know this I can be in my becoming. However, I am at the moment and just be able to show up fully in that moment of the coming and knowing that that's not the final stop. I want to throw that in there because that shift in frame from like an ankle to a becoming has just been so freeing and liberating in my spirit that where I am now is not where I'm going to end up. Oh my God, I love that that's I love that's liberating for you because in some ways it's so like, it's a challenge for me because I'm like, and this talks about like in this is showing my like, being are being like perfection I wanted to come off as a certain way, which I need to release because I'm like oh my God I'll never be. And there's this inherent struggle to my mind. I'm like, I'm always like I just want to be enlightened. I just want to, I just want to have all the analysis and I just want to and I think I don't know if it's a bit happens to other folks who are doing this work. But I am I like constantly like I just want to reach it to where I have the best analysis and I and I walk into the room and my orders are on alignment and like, but it gives me anxiety knowing that this is a lifelong journey of deepening deepening my becoming. And in some ways actually releases the perfectionism and it actually allows more room for liberate. You're right. It is like, okay, look at me in real time learning. I'm like, it's, it's liberating. It is like, there's no end goal. You're just consistently becoming more and more of what you want to be and let more you practice more and more of living your values. And when you said that, I saw a deep connection to what Sage was saying about like how we get deeper into our practice and how it's an everyday thing. And I think one of my homies key said key Jackson says like liberation is 100,000 million decisions you make throughout the day. And so like when I just when you said that I was like freaking out at first and I was like, oh my God, I'm never going to be enlightened being but it actually it's not like that. It's just that you continuously deepening this practice. And it's something that you practice every day kind of like Sage was saying. And so I guess it's freeing and then in some ways we should all lean into that. It's actually okay, like you're constantly going to be on this like pathway, but it's a good thing that it's not like this, you know, you didn't make it like you need to make a on the test, which is something that comes from all I mean I can only assume the institution is learning but like. Yeah. Perfect. Well, I mean, we, we all are. We all are because that's why supremacist culture right. We all are we're all we are everything everything has equal weight everything is enormous. Everything has, you know, I was looking to Joe and I thought about Tony Morrison quote around like racism. And I think that's the function is as distraction. Right. We're, we're, we're, we're inculcated with this sense of like we have to get it right. We have to get it right. I think part of what, what you're experiencing what I enjoy like I think a lot about the mandate for black people that, you know, Mary Hook shared and like the last line of be be transformed in the service of the work. That is a named intention to be transformed in the service of the work puts you in relationship with folks differently right so like I'm doing this work because I am an ally I am doing this work, because I want the world to be better for everyone. Yes, and expect yourself, put yourself in the sense to be transformed in the service of the work and I do it in a way that how can we figure out this is back to like how we do the work. How do we do the work in a way that this iteration and I feel you may have this idea of like constantly working. Right, how does that become joy. How does that become our joy. How does that become pleasure. How does that you know, does it mean I know for me it's like doing it with people. Like I got a little social studies pod is like three or four of us, and I love getting together with them right like I just love them. And I love talking with them and so this kind of transformation doesn't feel like like me by myself, reading the book on my couch, you know, underlying you know that's cool and everything but when I get with other folks and I'm like yo, I just read this thing have you read it or like, I tried this and oh my God, it was a math help. Like that that that for me is like that is that is what it means. You know when I going back to a Landry's poem like what does it mean to live, like like the embodiment of life. You know, and how does that life that animated source be a part of how we think about this constant iteration and the constant girlfriend in the midst of what I haven't got real. All right. But in the life of which I'll be right back. So I think there needs to be an extension of grace. And I think at this moment, so many of our movement spaces are building because we don't know how to think grace enough. I don't know how to extend that grace as a way of working through conflict enough. I'm just thinking about life is messy. Right. Life is fucking messy. I'm trying to mess up on the process of becoming right. And so how do we, and also goes back to how we are in relationship to each other right. How do I extend grace to you when you wrong be sage. I immediately just dismiss you and just card you and say, well, I'm never going to work with sage again because they did X, Y and Z. And that to me is not what I think of when I think of liberation and freedom is all of us being in relationship to each other and me saying sage. I'm extending grace and I'm going to talk through it. I'm good, you know, and so I've also been sitting with that and how life is messy. Life is a part of this thing. I don't know the joys, but of course with the joy comes also the cycle of the low times, the difficult, the struggle. And so, how are we in struggle with each other, knowing that we're not going to get it right, but extending grace in the midst of not getting it right to move us further along the path of becoming. I'm just gonna stop there. I felt a preacher moment happening. No, I was like, go on because what I'm like. The movement church. No, that's good. Sorry, sage. I was gonna say, no, I think that's dope. And I think it brings up experiments again and how we do experiments, which is that like, oh, these experiments will sometimes be go weird and like, we just have to hold grace with each other through that process. And I'm like, I keep going back to the structural wellness, the structural, like organizations of the root size organizations of song size, even our own little mini operations, even I just actually just in our families and our friend circles. We need to have a practice of restorative practice. We need to have restorative and transformative practice. We need to have, we need to be able to create ways in which we can hold each other and maintain each other's wholeness through trauma and through pain. And so, I'm assuming it sounds like we don't believe in cancel culture between us. It doesn't look like routine cancel culture. But that kind of brings up the now to me because now everyone else is kind of cancel culture. And how we kind of push back on that. And, oh my God, my, my, my sibling spirit brought up today. I'm reading the chat and I just got a good chuckle from Hannah. So, no mind. Now I'm like, oh, yes, exactly, exactly. Like my friends here today was talking about what does it mean to really talk about like abolition and transformative justice. So in this way with you in the struggle, who are we struggling with all these cops need to be arrested or is that perpetuating the systems that we're trying to dismantle. Like how are we who are we in struggle with and how are we in struggle with and maybe it's not for us, honestly, to be in struggle with the cops. Maybe it's for some of the white comrades or maybe it's for some of the other folks to be in struggle with them in a certain way. Or maybe, you know, and so I think that's what I'm thinking of to like in the now moment of the first urgency of now and what ways can we push back on cancel culture. And which ways can we like hold this balance of like, we don't want prisons to exist anymore. So then what is the appropriate response when someone dies with the appropriate response when someone kills a black trans woman. I made a Facebook post years ago and I was like, if someone kills me, like I don't want them arrested. I want them to be brought into process. And like, and of course that just comes from like the increased violence that we see on black trans women. And even at the intersections of like black lives matter in Minnesota, I talked about this Ayanna Dior, it was in Minnesota right next to the marches and as a black trans woman she was getting beat upon by black folks and so So then that's me and can black trans folks struggle with blacks is like who you know and and I'm interested I'm interested in struggling with them and I'm interested in struggling with everyone funny enough. But like, yeah, I'm like where, like who can you struggle with and like, in this now moment, how do we push back against cancel culture to create like pot and our pods little restorative practices that are about like kind of experimenting. So if we're not arresting someone, what are we doing, you know, in these moments where folks are getting killed and like it's really tough to tell people maybe these people shouldn't go to jail or maybe, you know, yeah. I appreciate that so much like I lately in sort of my abolitionist thinking I've been sitting with the work of Ruth Wilson Gilmore, who just who defines abolition as moving towards that which is life affirming. Right. And so that doesn't mean we have to actually get to that like the end goal like our prisoners that we can be in, we can be abolitionist to be in in abolition work as we move towards that which is life affirming and I really respect that. And, you know, and I think for me when I think about this relationship around grace and who am I struggle with. I think about what is repair like move it move at the speed of trust is one of those phrases I get from, you know, it shared a lot. And I'm like, I trust, I trust people to be people. Right. And what that means is a lot of what you said Joe, we're going to we're going to shade each other we are going to, you know, step on each other's toes we're going to inadvertently, you know, we're going to we're going to do all kinds of things to each other. The question I sit in is what are our processes for repair. Right. What are what are when those things happen. Do we know how to stay in relationship do not stay there, stay in relationship and and have a way to work it out. Like, I think that's one of the, the, the gifts of alternate roots as a community. And not that, you know, I know a lot of folks who think, you know, we just go, we just go sit in rocking chairs and think come by y'all because that's all they see on social media, but they don't actually see the business meaning they don't think that happens. But you know, like, but it's this commitment to be relationship with each other and to figure out how both is in when things happen as individuals, and also as a community, what is repair, what is repair and you can't have repair, if you don't stay in relationship. Right. Now you can set boundaries and I've been really, you know, I mean folks know I like I felt like to keep people's names in my mouth. You know, Princess Hemfield, who's a wonderful formatist practitioner and healer talks about boundaries being the way I can love you and myself simultaneously. Right. So I don't want to I don't want to make it sound like repair means like we're just bone we're back it's all that's all behind us right, it could mean a whole different relationship. It could mean like we have we have set up a configuration that is different, but we haven't left each other and we haven't given up on each other we haven't disposed of each other. Right. I mean that's something that I think a lot about and I don't I, you know, don't nobody put in the chat like what are some methodologies of repair. I don't know. I'm thinking. Don't ask. We're all just an invitation, you know, if you've got some. Together. Yeah, yeah. You already know that's going to be actually what's what you do, but like it's I mean that's a valid I mean it's a bad question even in my local in the work that I do like in Louisiana, like we struggle sometimes like we and it's weird because we believe in like an SOA believing kinship based organizing. And I think in the south in general we believe in kinship based organizing. So what does it mean when like you have this really tough moment with the same person who you like eat dinner with are who you live with are who you like see every other we cannot know organizing are working or like whatever structural context and like to stay in relationship. I really love when you said these new configurations as someone who struggles with boundaries, which makes me think which made me think of the like how we're talking about in some of the like now like like fierce and urgent and now like the now portion. Another thing I'll say is one of the next steps I would love to see is just like black folk, like black women, black films, black trans people, like doing the work for the sake of themselves and not being censored around. Oh, there's a black man who got shot. Let me run to the front lines being like actually my work isn't at the front line. I mean our kids inherently has historically let me not even. Let me not get it confused at all. I work as historically inherently been at the front lines of everything. And I'm like what would it look like for black trans folks and black women and black people in general black queer folks to be like actually the my main work is not the front lines my main work is actually just going to be in community with other black trans folks are to just take care of myself and heal myself. My work is not informed by men by patriarchy by saying we have to uplift his name without her name even being mentioned at all. So I'm like something about I don't remember what you said Sage was something about what you said was like I wonder if like in the future some of the ways that we can reconfigure relationships is that we're really censoring our wellness and homeless without it being about going to march for this person. I mean, going to march for a man, which is all okay I'm not saying don't march. I'm not saying don't protest. But I'm saying what would it be like if in this new world if we had an experiment where we really our main work and our main priority was really just taking care and healing ourselves. And some of the other work did manifest to because we were well because we were whole, you know. Yeah, because we were well and because we were full. I feel that I feel that. I think I'm just something that was just put in the chat. Maybe then there is no one size fits all for repair looks like I'd like for our last however many minutes we have left just off of that. So I feel like I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm not going to pull back my last statement but I don't know what repair necessarily looks like but I do believe in in a tool for principle struggle. And it's it's called the tenants of principle struggle. It was developed during the black radical Congress in in 98. And often tribute your woman named in Tonya Lee. And it's a set of principles that are designed for folks who are in movement relationship. And it's not necessarily be aligned at the same time at the same place and at the same time right like we are we are all agreeing that we are headed towards black liberation. We are all agreeing and in the midst of that there are so many little interstitial spaces right where where we could we could bump up against each other and rather than bump up against each other and pop off right. So we bump up against each other and be in principle struggle together and it's it's a series of six steps that starts with first seek deeper understanding. One of the steps is, is, you know, if you have a side conversation. I think it's something to bring to the large group right like there. So it honors both like our needs to sometimes be like yeah homie man says why I don't really know. You know, and like we sometimes we need that in order to process to get to what is the heart of what it is that we are trying to work through collectively, but if you do that, and you process that bring it back to the large group because there's a relationship between the individual and the collective that stays in the midst and so the tenants for principle struggle you can find them online you can Google them. But I find that it is, it is, it's a methodology that of these, particularly, I mean it's designed for spaces where folks are are seemingly and we need to be careful about this right like sometimes we'll use the same words and think now we've made the same things and then, you know, it gets down to figure it out how we're going to move and it's like oh, actually, that's not what I meant at all. So how then do we get back in right relation how do we how do we work through it. It's actually it's a tool about working through being in principle show not just any kind of struggle. The principal struggle that says I see you and know we believe in the same thing. Let's figure out how to get there together. I struggle with principle struggle the tenants I'm like, especially the thing what is like and I maybe I'm misunderstanding them. But I'm like, I think we need to I think maybe we need to have more conversations. Obviously, I need to learn more about them. But whenever it's first introduced to them, like there's something around like holding your own feelings are like taking care like consideration of your own actions and it feeling like it's something that only you can hold that felt really hard for me. And so yeah, I feel like, but it gives us a good framework. I think to work with. I'll give you an example like the ones like you want to be responsible for your own feeling. Right. Like, and it doesn't come back to the group. Right. I was just in in a workshop earlier today where my small group had some issues with what was said in the large group and I was like, okay, so let's go through the tennis or principal struggle. And what we what we understood is like people were were heard something in the small group in the large group and they're like, Oh, that makes me feel like they don't believe in the management of people who are doing alternative leadership and in that kind of thing. And it's like, okay, so step one is speak deeper understanding. So we came back to the large group and said, This is what I heard. This is what it made me feel like it's like, Tell me, tell me more about what you met so I can better understand. So you don't throw you don't you don't necessarily just you are you got to figure it out and just work through it by yourself. It's about how do you share with the group, their impact of what happened, and then also stay in it like what does it mean, because there has to be a reckoning, you know you can't pretend like people have heard or because are hurt or heard. So I think that that to me is one of the that and that there is another one that's like this may not be the container that need, which is always one I'm like, we always feel like this is the container that we need. But you know, somebody listen, let me tell you, let me tell you about what I'm thinking. That's literally that's that's where I'd be at but then, yeah, but then I've seen it function so well in so many spaces too. So, yeah, sometimes I get challenged by them and then I'm like, Okay, well, lean into it like, see how it's going to go and see how it's going to flow. Yeah, I'm appreciative of the framework and it gives us something to work with you know. In terms of repair, what are you thinking of anything in terms of the question around repair. That's literally that was me wanting to know what y'all thought. Yeah, but I can listen to y'all all day with y'all because I learned from each of you. Yeah, very similar. Oh, really. I wonder in terms of repair I'm like, I'm like I did that because I'm like I'm about to say something that's not okay. I like, yeah, I think it has to be right because I think my own practice as being like one that is so unboundary and it's just so and I see it across my community like across my community like we are going like we are letting people harm us like and doing all kinds of things to us and we're going to them because we want better for our people are because we want better for ourselves and we would hope that someone will want better for us. And so I just see a practice, both in myself and in my community of like unboundary like repair and I think stage was talking by very clearly like it's not about like you just be harmed and like, well that's that like it's actually about like how can I love my what you said how you and myself simultaneously. And so for me I go back to what sage kind of said, and it looks like being okay to like be in the deep end to have like knowing that like, this is going to be like you kind of said earlier to Jeff, like this is going to be kind of gross and ugly. And in honesty, I think the thing to me is like honesty to like when I think about repair, I often find ways to just be like, okay, in the moment, for the bigger calls are for the bigger moment. And that, that on that lack of honesty turns into like resentment turns into like you know it just turns into this thing where it's like, oh, like this person always does this to me but I don't want to be the one to cause trauma or our drama or anything like that when it's like actually you you deserve access to honesty. And so I think being honest from me and being willing to like, I'm going to say it again we will into experiment with different ways of like supporting each other and being in relationship with each other to always feel good to me and I'm definitely someone who's like, oh no this we can always get where we need to go like yeah like it's okay you poisoned everyone at lunchtime. It's okay. Like we'll figure it out. You didn't like you know, everyone can be restored. That's, that's kind of my I feel like there's always room like no one is not. No one is beyond reach known as around like you know, everyone can be restored and I think some folks don't believe that but I truly believe that everyone always has this place for someone to be restored in every situation and with that core value you know that's how I moved through it. Well, so much of what we've been talking about moving into something that's not what we were given. I feel like so much of the culture. I guess we've inherited or are forced to live in. Not that right. It's that's up. They don't get restoration, right. So, I just feel like so much of what we're talking about this extending grace this will struggle are all the things and mechanisms of us living differently. Again, like what are the values we're trying to embody, because it's called for embodiment time. I think along with that has to be a what are we valuing what are we wanting to embody and taking the time to really sit with that and figure that out. Yeah, because I believe that we have to value this other way of being practicing that will take time. It will mess it up will get it right sometimes will mess it up other times. And so, yeah, I'm just sitting really just thinking about Joe, what are your values. Truly believe people are worthy of being restored. Truly believe that people deserve grace every time, not just one time but if they mess up again, you give them grace again. And so I'm just sitting with that and how the self reflexive informs the collective. And so one of the things that this moment of pandemic this moment of breakthrough has given us is the opportunity to be self reflexive so that when we come back into the community. When we come back into the collective will know what our values are and then we can start to shape and form collectively and so that's just what I was just sitting here thinking while you all were talking. What is it that we truly value and what is it that we're living into values and embodiment of those things. So, yeah. Yeah, I know I appreciate that Joe. You know, some of the, some of the most heartbreaking moments of my life is when I have tried my best to live into freedom. Mine and everyone else is right like mine and whoever I'm in relationship with like those have been some of the hardest moments of my life and continue to be right look like, you know my county tembo talks about freedom is kind of an individual construct but justice and immigration are collected right so how what happens when my freedom and your freedom, man up against each other right like what feels like even to you. And what feels like freedom to me are rubbing against each other right like those are those are those moments where you're like okay what do I go to where where do I go like how do I, how do I hold that how do I both and in the And a Landry's work like what does that mean to try to embody and walk through the world with this value of freedom that I believe in and not and think about what that means around what I have to lose. And I say lose meaning, what do I have to release actually the better word what do I have to release. I think that is that that that is the practice that is a personal practice of freedom that for me gets us to a help bring more freedom to the world right if I can figure that out. I love y'all so much. I'm mad. I was like what to do like what's happening. I love you all so much. There's good people who in my life who passed me beverages. Cheers to you all cheers to the fierce urgency of now. Thank you community for being here with us for asking tough questions. Um, it you know I really appreciate this channel in particular it took a lot of courage to come tonight. And to talk with us and to really delve deep into what it means to heal to send a wellness to think about the ways in which we work. So, I just want to really extend my grace to you all as I find my script so that I could y'all know if if there's family out there y'all know I can go off script. I don't want to do that. I also want to give gratitude and affirmation to the tech team. We've got Anna out there. Joe's beholden this down in the live stream. I just want to shout out Lila and you to a bunch of linguists holding down the interpretation. And thanks really to all of you all for your comments and affirmations and just being there with us as we examine what does it mean for this particular group now everybody. I had a brought in three other people the whole conversation would have been different right, but you know what does it mean for this particular group to examine the fierce urgency of now. Thank you so much. So tomorrow, we have another full day, starting with our second uprooting pollination keynote with Camille Schaefer of Azure one of my favorite people. Check out your daily email we send those out in the crack of the morning at 6am so that everybody can look at that look all the way down because they also go over self organized spaces. So check your daily email in the morning for details. And we just appreciate you and we'll see you tomorrow on the live stream. Have a good day. That my friend Michaela Harrison wrote, and it just keeps running through my body. So I'm going to share it with you. And I've kind of added my own little part, because I like to think to remember that everybody doesn't have doesn't use the same patriarchal gender pronouns. So I've just incorporated some pronouns that of people I love. So here you go. You are manifesting protection. There's a force feel all around keeping you safe and whole. You are manifesting protection. There's a love inside that fortifies your soul. They are manifesting protection. There's a force feel all around keeping them safe and whole. They are manifesting protection. There's a love inside that fortifies their soul. Z is manifesting protection. There's a force feel all around keeping them safe and whole in protection. There's a love inside that fortifies their soul. We are protection. There's a force feel all around keeping us safe and whole in protection. There's a love inside that fortifies our soul in protection. There's a force protection.