 exhibition over three days at the Mount Erigal Hotel in Lederkenny. And well, one of the stands is going to be of interest if you're affected by mica. And the thing is that if you're not shown, I'm sure at this stage that you're all too aware about mica and the problems that it's causing and also what to do about it. Well, maybe not so much so awareness just might not be the same beyond any shown. And to try to put that wrong to write, if you like, there's going to be a stand at the show over the weekend by the mica action group. If you want to pop in, have a chat with them, get any information, find out what the situation is. And Lisa Hohn was announced as a new chairperson of the group just last week, 18 months ago herself and her husband Jerry said their home had mica. And she started working with the committee in their fight for 100% redress. And Lisa, who's a native of Manchester has lived in Donegal for more than 20 years and actually is here in the studio with us. Lisa, thanks for coming in. Thanks very much. So tell us where the what the situation is at the moment in the battle for 100% redress. What's the current scheme and where does it fall short? Okay, just one thing. First of all, it's actually it was the chairperson last year. So that was September, so just for confusing anybody out there. This is 2022 right now. I'm just a year out. Okay. So yeah, just that was in September. So the current state of play is that we are awaiting the revised defective block scheme. Currently there are regulations, draft regulations that have been circulated to what the government calls stakeholders that would be councils, homeowner rights groups, among others, and they have to be formulated and they have to be put in place and unfortunately, I can't give people a timeline on that. Hopefully, you know, that should be in the near future and then once those are in place and then the local authorities will then take those and actually translate that into the new defective block scheme. Also, we saw rates published from the SCSI last week. Now, they are guideline to the minister. He's ultimately the person who sets the rates. So the way that the new scheme is going to work, it's on a rate per square foot per square meter. So the SCSI go out, they get the figures in that their quantity surveyors are seeing in the field. They compile those and then they've worked it. It's a bit of a blunt instrument that's sort of eight house types and they give what they believe is the square foot rate, square meter rate for each of those house types. But those are actually based on terms of reference which go back to 2007. So it's complicated. We would have our own views on that. We think that the terms of reference are really quite cynical in the way they've been devised and unfortunately that is one of the issues that homeowners are still going to have to contend with. But that's where we are. So effectively the scheme that's in place is the original scheme that was put in place in 2010-20. That's the original scheme that still is in place and we are awaiting this transition into the revised defective block scheme. But at the moment we're not at that point because there is still actions to be undertaken, regulations to be finalised, operational means to be adopted by the local authorities actually make that come live. So that's where we are at the minute. So the revised scheme give 100% redress? Well, the government say it will give 100% redress but the reality is it can't, it cannot give 100% redress because of A, the way the terms of reference from the housing department are formulated. And the other thing that is a massive issue with, given these times of sort of hyperinflation that we've seen in construction in the last while effectively you've got, yeah, you've got now there is some acknowledgement of that in the SCSI rates. They have been revised. However, you're still got this kind of manipulation of the terms of reference from the housing department whether pushing it back to 2007 regulations, no matter when your house was built, no matter your house could be absolutely bang up to date with super energy efficiency measures but that's not recognised. It is not a true like for like and it doesn't even include foundations if you've got to and that's the whole other issue that is currently under review there's scientific investigations and reviews going on with regard to that. It doesn't even include stuff like floor coverings. I mean for goodness' sake, who doesn't have floor coverings on their floor? You know, we're not talking around them by a concrete. So, you know, there's a rather cynical terms of reference that dictate those square foot rates that the SCSI have to work to so they're kind of working with one on behind their back effectively and then the other one which is absolutely fundamental at the minute is the cap rate so there is an overall cap of 420,000 put onto the scheme. That's written into the legislation that was passed in July 2022 so effectively it doesn't matter like if you get up to that there is no more beyond that right now and we would this has to be reviewed. It has to be reviewed because it does not recognise the hyperinflation that has gone on. There's no change there in terms of that recognition and also we would argue that just scrap the cap. You cannot say that it's 100% redress with a cap in place with a cap you are ultimately going to have people who breach that cap therefore mathematically it cannot be 100% regress so if you're going to give homeowners a genuine or real true 100% redress scrap the cap. As many people would say that that cap is generous enough and that people should be happy with it but the reality is regardless of whether you build your house for 200 grand or 500 grand if there's make it you should be entitled to get your money back because there's defective blocks. Exactly. And also the vast majority of the homes that we're chatting about here are just ordinary family homes. They're not big properties. They're absolutely the normal the cross section of a normal spread of homes you would find in any town or any rural area a good mix of both right across the country we've looked at the figures like the homes here are no different in their profile to many many different counties especially if you just take a sort of we're a mixed county in terms of you know, predominantly rural but then we do have urban centres as well so if you look at a similar county that is you know that kind of make up you will find a very very similar profile we're just about average in terms of you know and these homes were bought and paid for already this this is not somebody asking something for nothing we're asking for the restoration of homes that we bought in good faith that materials were bought in good faith for on the assumption that we had a good regulatory regime an effective regulatory regime that would ensure that consumers were protected and you know this is not it's not a blip it's not like there was a bad batch this was a systematic and persistent situation that went on for years it is through no fault of the homeowners absolutely not and there has to be recognition of that and there has to be a full true 100% restoration of the homes that people bought in the first place they have lost their whole home that their whole home has been stolen from them effectively and in the last week alone the results of a survey came out that showed that the average price of a home and an average size home here in the Dummy Gall and in Mayo went up 50,000 in the last 12 months so with costs like that I mean the overall cost of the scheme is going to go up as estimated now that is what it was 3.5 billion could likely be 4 billion but regardless it's 100% redress but to be fair that's not an issue that the homeowners have caused should worry about one could look back and say that if the government had owned this situation when it should have done years ago this has been rumbling on for years now one could argue that we should be coming to the end and resolution of this issue at this stage as opposed to just starting to deal with it and part of the reason that this is going to cost more than it really should have done is because of the delay absolutely and the powers that be not recognising not listening to the homeowners not listening to the campaign groups and pushing it back and resisting and I mean the original scheme was put in place in 2020 we're coming up to 3 years on since the original scheme was put into place the original scheme which was fatally flawed so we've lost 3 years in literally trying to move from one scheme to what should be about a scheme but the acid test is when I get them and that scheme is going to land and all the while all the time realising that their homes affected by Micah who are living in homes where the situation is getting increasingly worse so they want some resolution and you're here really ostensibly Lisa today to invite people who are affected by Micah or might be affected by Micah who might want more details or chat to somebody face to face to come along to the stand over the weekend and have a chat with yourself or anybody that might be there yeah that's it and what I would say because the latest science is indicating that a major issue is ion sulfites and internal sulfate attack and until we get the final conclusions of the science we're not going to have complete clarity on that but there is enough evidence currently to point strongly that that is a major issue that we're dealing with and could be the fundamental issue the Micah character is in homeowner's blocks is way beyond what it should be but ion sulfates are absolutely fundamental to this defective concrete as opposed to just blocks yeah so when people I suppose like because of the origins and the way that things be obviously where Micah action grew but you know that's historically where it was believed at the issue to be but the current science is really demonstrating that the defective concrete the ion sulfates which are a very well acknowledged and understood issue within concrete and you know how concrete should be treated and effectively even a very small amount of these deleterious materials in the concrete can cause major issues so I think that's the other thing people need to realize that there is there is a very we're looking at this in a new perspective and we really have to get to the root cause of what we're dealing with because it's only when we get to the root cause of what we're dealing with we can ensure that the rebuild and remediation is appropriate to that because we have to get people out of the situation and they never have to go back there again absolutely there's a lot to it as you said yourself earlier it's very complicated and as a result there's some people even if they are affected by a maker or think they are they're just they're reluctant to engage but it's important that the group is supported and that you get as much information as as you possibly can and I suppose you all say to people please reach out don't be afraid to ask questions engage on social media or come along to the stand over the weekend absolutely so we're at the new build and rebuild show in the Mount Air Goal Hotel that's on for the next three days it's on Friday Saturday Sunday starting tomorrow I think 12 12 30 is the opening time and we have a stand there we will be bound by committee members and volunteers for MAG please come along if you've got any queries whatsoever please come along we don't have all the answers to everything that will be absolutely do our best to give you as much information as possible and certainly for those people who may you know suspect that they have an issue with defective concrete in their home and you know really to reach out beyond those areas that are you know like as you mentioned in the show and as a heavily impacted area a lot of people there would be quite O'Fay, Leda Kenny has over the last years sort of couple of years certainly become much more acknowledging the situation I think still probably other areas in the county and we do know that properties are affected they're affected all over Donagall unfortunately it's absolutely devastating and you know I really wish that wasn't the case but I think that if you do suspect or you're sort of in these sort of embryonic stages of trying to sort of figure out where you're at with this we do come along and talk to we're there for the next three days I'm going to be trying to give an update each day at one o'clock we've got a little kind of presentation room as well as the stand this year so we're going to use that each day at one o'clock I'm going to do a little update in terms of what we know so far I'm not going to have all the answers on everything but I will absolutely give everybody as much information as I have or guess on some things and then the other thing that's really valuable is we've got a quantity surveyor Claire Irwin who is an absolute mind of information and she has a specialist in energy efficiency and is very offe with the SEI AI schemes that's the authority that sort of administers all the sort of energy efficiency retrofit type schemes so she's going to be coming along and she's going to do a talk on Saturday and Sunday at two o'clock if people want to tap into that and she'll be there and so she'll just give an overview and then there'll be time for sort of Q&A after that so hopefully you can come and talk to us on a one to one basis certainly and then hopefully we'll try and give out as much information on key aspects that we know that people are desperate for answers exactly okay don't be afraid to come along to be afraid and ask questions and reach out for any information over the course of the weekend Lisa Hoan of the Maker Action Group thank you very much the best luck over the weekend Thanks very much