 Today's episode of the Bitcoin Show is brought to you by Mt. Gox, the place to buy and sell Bitcoins online, m-t-g-o-x, mountgox.com. And the Thank You Economy by bestselling author, New York Times bestselling author, Gary Vaynerchuk. Thankyoueconomybook.com. Check it out. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Bitcoin Show. We've been on a little bit of a hiatus, but we're back, and really excited to bring you a fantastic guest today. I'm so excited to introduce Charlie Shrem, who's co-founder and CEO of bitinstant.com. If you haven't heard of bitinstant, you're going to now. So welcome, Charlie. Thanks for having me, Bruce. How's it going? I haven't seen you since the Bitcoin conference. Have we seen each other since then? The open video conference. We were both friends. Oh, the open video conference. Of course. Of course. That was a great time. All these conferences. The Korean barbecue we had out there. Yeah, that's right. Of course. How could I forget? Between us and the Empire State Building? Yeah. All around here, yeah. Cool, cool. So tell us about bitinstant. What's the deal with it? First of all, what is bitinstant? Bitinstant is the premier way to get money into your exchanges. Right now, we support USD, planning on moving on to bigger currencies. We started with trade hill and depositing Liberty Reserve, Duala and Paxum into your trade hill accounts instantly. So if you have one of those currencies, you can deposit money. We moved on. We added actually Mt. Gox this morning as an exchange. Okay. And we're... Bring up my screen, will you? And this is the actual site. Okay, so we can see the graphic and stuff. Okay, so keep on going. Tell us about it. Okay, so you can use Liberty Reserve, Paxum, Duala. We added Mt. Gox this morning and as another exchange, you can deposit into the recording. We're adding on a couple of more exchanges as well. We plan to have the top five to six exchanges in order to retain the market share and eventually move on to withdrawals. So you can instantly withdraw out of your exchange accounts, which as I know is a big problem now. A lot of people want to get their money out faster and to provide more liquidity in the Bitcoin economy itself and eventually move on to instant Bitcoin transfers and instant tranches of USD across all of the exchanges and then adding on a lot more ways of getting money in and ways of getting money out. Okay, cool. And so I understand... I mean, it sounds great, instant money in and out, but what does that mean exactly? Because when you are on these exchange sites, basically they say it's instantaneous. You're wiring money though, usually through a bank wire. You have money in a Chase account. If you have money in a Citibank account, you have to wire it over to an exchange. Wire transfers can take anywhere from two to three days and they cost $30, $40. With our service, you can pull the money straight using one of the methods that we have. It's a lot cheaper and a lot faster and once the money is in those Liberty Reserve Dualla or Paxum, then you have to wait another either as little as six hours as most as three or four days to get your money from there into the actual exchange account. What else do we do is we hold large reserves in all the exchanges and using smart official intelligence and based on market conditions we're able to hold reserves in all the exchanges and transfer your money to you once you pay us in whatever currency you want to. So you already have money in Mt. Gox or Trade Hill and so if I want to put a thousand dollars in, then I get a thousand dollars in, then you just you can credit me instantly and then get paid out, sort of. Okay, so what methods do I, if I want to put a thousand dollars in and I have it in my checking account, how do I get it to bid instant? Fastest way is to use one of those three methods, Dualla, Paxum Liberty Reserve. Liberty Reserve, it's a little more work involved, but with Dualla Paxum you can actually pull the money out of your account, ACH, and then transfer directly over to us. Those sites have fees associated with it, but we cover all the fees when it comes to transferring the money from those places to us. It's all included in what our fee is. When you go to our website you type in how much you want to send, it'll tell you in real time exactly how much you're going to be getting in the exchange and at most it takes five minutes. Our average is 11 seconds from Dualla to us. And your money's account? 11 seconds. 11 seconds. So, when you pay us? Yeah, but wait a minute, so I don't understand, how can it, I mean, if I'm going to use Dualla to get the money to you, how is it faster than if I use Dualla to put the money directly into Mt. Gox or Trade Hill? Have you put money directly into Mt. Gox with Dualla? Yeah, yeah. It could take as little as an hour, it could take as long as 24 hours, even longer if it's on a weekend because he has to manually approve them. We have an automated system. The software does everything. It connects with all of the payment processors and all the exchanges. We integrated with everyone. And because of our software is working with the API and with all the other exchanges, everything is done automatically. So, it's literally just within seconds or a few minutes at the most? The order's going to a Q system if we have, you know, a multi-tiered verification system because, you know, according to anti-money laundering, you know, your customer policies we have to be very careful. We have limits amount you could put in, amount you could take out. Okay. So, with Dualla you can use ACH. We know that. With Paxim and Liberty Reserve, you have, don't you have to use a bank wire to get money to them? Use a bank wire or you can buy Liberty Reserve currency with a multitude of other ways. You can use your credit card. You can use, you know, wire transfers. You can use really anything. Most, there are dozens of Liberty Reserve exchanges. The big announcement is actually we're partnering up with a federally and state licensed money service business to offer instant cash deposits. So, essentially, you go to any bank, any bank, Chase Bank of America, ING, Citibank. I'm in a couple other smaller credit unions. You come to our site first. You make a transfer request. It'll generate a deposit slip for you automatically. You print that out. You go there. You give them the money. And unlike other exchanges that have tried that, one hour accounts will never be shut down because we're fully licensed. We're already with the banks. Everything's set up and it's fully automated. So, as soon as you put that money in the account, the banks let us know. We pull it every 20 minutes and the money is instantly transferred into your account. Wow. Okay. So, no more waiting. It's your money. Why wait? Okay. And so, and how does it work in reverse? Is it similar in reverse? A little more complicated. Okay. They're going to reverse. What we're going to do with the exchanges is that once we're integrated with them, you pay us. So, you can pay us with the Mt. Gox voucher or with Trade Hill. We're building a shopping cart interface with them. So, you can actually kind of check out money and pay us into our account. And then, once the money's in our account, which is done instantly at the same time, then you can choose how you want to get your money. If you want your money in Duwala, PAC, some Libertas, or a wire transfer, dozens of different methods will be able to provide. And then, you can get your money out. Instead of waiting for withdrawals, we have limits, of course, but the limits are a little bit higher than what the exchanges offer. And big problem with the economy today, the Bitcoin economy, actually, is it takes a long time to get your money out of the exchanges. So, people are a little nervous trusting the exchanges. So, with us, we're willing to take that risk. Right. Front of your money instantly, pay a small fee and have a nice day. Yeah. And it's no secret that there have been disputes between Duwala and Trade Hill, famously. But you acting in the middle is kind of allows people to use Duwala again with Trade Hill. Because Trade Hill doesn't accept Duwala directly. They don't accept Duwala. We built our own verification system that checks for fraud with Duwala. And I'm happy to say that since we started, we've had one customer actually defraud us. Wow. And Duwala actually ate the losses and paid us back. Oh, wow. That's good. That's good. Cool. So, all right. And what are the fees involved? What is, I know, I mean, aside from the exchange sites that have their own little fees, but what is- We take care of that, too. We're working with all the exchanges. So, the exchanges that charge fees, those are eaten. Once you pay our fee, like I said on the site, you see how much you're giving in. It says right there how much you'll be getting out as soon as you- Oh, okay. So, that includes whatever if they have any fees involved. Including the Liberty Reserve fee, including the Duwala fee, including the Paxon fee. We're working with everyone. So, the money you put in a lot of problems with now is you don't know how much you're getting with- there's so many fees associated with getting money in and out. We'll tell you exactly how much you're getting. So, as an example, if I want to put in $1,000 through Duwala into Mt. Gox, what would the typical charge be? So, the fee for that is 1.99% of a $500 transfer. You can actually do a thousand per transfer. You have to do two $500 transfers. Oh, okay. You do a $500 transfer. So, the fee at the end of the day will come out to around- Ten bucks? The fees change so between $7 and $9 maybe. That's after everything. It's after Duwala's fees, after Gox's fees and after our fees. And the money will be there instantly. Wow. So, it really is instantaneous. And then, like I said, withdrawing it, the fastest is probably Duwala. If you want real green cash. Yeah. The fastest right now would be- you mean without us or with us? With you. Yeah. Right now it would be Duwala if you want actually green cash. Or Liberty Reserve because Liberty Reserve- you're paying a little bit more on- Once you have the money in Liberty Reserve, to get the money out of Liberty Reserve, you can pay a little bit of higher fee, but you can have a little faster than if you'd wait from Duwala. Duwala has to put the money back in your account, which you can take a day or two. It takes a couple of days. Okay. Got you. All right. So, I got your press release here. I'm going to go through the points. I'm going to ask you about each of these. So, obviously now that the big- one of the big news, I mean they're all big news, but is that you're now working with Mt. Gox. That's brand new. Okay. So, when did that launch? Yesterday morning or this morning? Oh, okay. Japan time. So, I know every time zone- Yesterday morning, Japan time, whatever that is. Okay. I'm always working with the Asian- I say RSN. Yeah. Real soon now. Yeah. No, it just happened. All right, cool. So, anyway, it's done. So, by the time you're seeing this, you can actually use it with Mt. Gox. Yeah, you could. And I'm happy to say on this show that we're going to be integrating with a lot of the other exchanges where they set up with crypto exchange. Yeah. With InterSango and a couple of other smaller ones, VerWox as well. VerWox is actually a very exciting one. No one really knows about it yet, but VerWox has a lot of methods such as MoneyPak, including PayPal. Customers will be able to come to our site. They don't have to go to VerWox. They can come straight to us. We're integrated already with VerWox system so they can use any of VerWox approved methods, including PayPal, MoneyPak, MoneyBookers, and fund their exchange accounts. Cool. Yeah, I mean, how do you spell VerWox? V-I-R-W-O-X. It's a big second-life currency site. It's a lot of the virtual world type of stuff. There's so many new exchanges. So, you're already set up with those that you mentioned? Yeah, fully integrated. It's just a funding issue right now. The way the system works is any investors out there, give me a call. Yeah, because you have to have cash reserves after you're sitting around. Exactly, you have to have cash reserves. You need to have small operations, budget, and things like that in order to keep the site running. We have three servers, so it's not simple. So, all right, the next thing is real-time updates? Yeah, you come to our site and instead of doing the transfer and worrying about what's next, you have an order number and an orders page you can go back to. If you scroll down on the site, you can actually enter your order number and it'll show you in real-time what's going on, where your money is at that moment. So, if you make a dualla transfer, like I said before, it goes through a verification system. So, as soon as the money is transferred, you'll see an update, dualla verification beginning, dualla verification round one complete, step two verification completed, order executed, funds sent to the exchange. And it's all done using JavaScript in real-time. So, you can actually see where your money is. Wow, okay. So, it's like tracking your FedEx package. Exactly. Look, it's your money. It's not our money. It's your money and it's your exchange account. We don't want there to be any thoughts of where my money is or anything like that. It's very safe and secure. Right, okay. Are people using this for, what do you call it, arbitrage? Arbitrage, yes. Is that a popular use? I would say even 50% of our businesses are arbitrage. Really? We have some customers who are transferring $7,000 to $10,000 a day with us. Yeah, because if you want to switch, obviously, you want to- Make money on the spreads. They don't have the cash reserves like you guys do. So, they can take advantage of that system to do that. Yeah, we actually had a cool idea which we're building now is to host arbitrage bots on their system already because we already have all the exchanges integrated. So, you pay in to that pool and it runs on a cycle and then whatever you get paid out, whatever we make, you get payout based on how much you put in. So, regular users can make money on arbitrage. You know, they have no idea what the word means. Are you saying that your site has arbitrage robots built in that a user can use? We built them. We're not using them right now, but we built them, yeah. So, is that coming? That's the funding issue. Again, we have everything built and we have everything ready to rock and roll, but we're just doing it very slowly on a slow launch because, first of all, we need to make sure everything works and when we have high reserves and there's some risk associated, making sure everything works. Wow, that's exciting. Yeah, that's going to be a lot of fun too. Also, inter-exchange transfers. So, you say I have $100 in trade-heal and I want to send it to Gawks or I have $100 in saying go and I want to send it to trade-heal. You don't have to go through Duwala or Liberty Reserve or any of the other places. Bypass every day. Through bit instant. Through bit instant will move your money for a very low fee straight to the other exchange. So, you make money arbitrage that way too. Okay, are those fees the one, are they on here? Right now, you can see the fees for Gawks to trade-heal, trade-heal to Gawks. Okay, okay. That's very, that's like pointing and other stuff. Okay, cool. All right, so let's see. Going down the list, I want to see what those API supports, what is that going to be used for? Surprisingly, a lot surprisingly for most people, but a lot of people don't even come to our site to use the software to use our API. So, most people have arbitrage bots and most people have trading bots, trading software as they do everything through command line. So, you can actually download, not only can you download our API, which is free to use and integrate that with your software, we actually have a Gawks SH fork, which is basically our software on command line. So, you can download that and run our software in your terminal. So, you boot it up. You say, I want to send money from here to here. It's all done instantly and you don't have to come to the site. How long before the Android app, so that I can- Soon, iPhone app first then Android. In and out, yeah. Well, iPhone. But I don't know, Apple will allow for that. Yeah, I don't know, but the way my understanding is, anything to do with money is not going to happen. Really, is that why Gawks Live couldn't get his app and- Right, they're working on all the Bitcoin apps My understanding is that all the Bitcoin apps are having to use web-based apps. Because Apple Store won't let anything on there without, you know, if it involves any kind of money or currency or anything like that, they say no, unless it's going through Apple and it's 30% and all that. But PayPal has an app. Yeah, interesting. Chase has an app. Like, how do these banks- So, what if like- Big banks, who knows, they paid the right price or something. Because we can create like a mobile hub page in a way. So, you want to transfer money from Duwala to Tradel. You come to our app, but you're not actually paying us in the app, it's more of a Duwala page that you're paying us through and then comes back to the app. It's all done instantly, of course, through our app, but then it transfers to Tradel. So, we're not actually taking money. I have to review the Apple's terms. Yeah, they're crazy. They are. And even if it is an app that calls web pages and things like that, I think they've been really strict on anything Bitcoin. That's why the Bitcoin mobile apps, they're having to do them web-based. That's my understanding. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Give them the feedback address. Yeah, all the Bitcoin apps don't actually do anything. Yeah, but if I'm wrong, send me an email. Put that up there. Yeah, feedback at onlyonetv.com and let us know. We'll read your comments next time. But I'm pretty sure that that's the way it's always been with Apple. Because their terms and conditions say that you can't use the iTunes to build a nuclear bomb. But they don't say much about Bitcoin yet. Well, yeah, they don't have to say. They can pretty much say it's completely up to them. And they can change their mind. Like they did with Google Voice. They had that was a famous thing. Really? Yeah, they changed their mind after the European Union was threatening all kinds of legal things. But yeah, they banned Google Voice app. I was wondering why I was in Europe and I had the Google Voice app and I was so excited to be able to use it. And it wasn't letting me make calls through the app. I had to actually get a callback, which was pointless because I'm already paying the money for these anyways. That's why they... Wow, I learned something new today. Exactly, exactly. But then they... Anyway, there was a lot of talk about the European Union legal stuff and they backed down a little bit because they were being threatened with, I don't know, whatever it is, fair trade and stuff. Google is like a government, though. Yeah, well, yeah, they're pretty much... They're enormous. So they're a big clash of the titans there. But from my understanding, anything Bitcoin related that's... I mean, the only thing that's been approved Bitcoin related is information, just like charts, numbers, prices, things like that. But anything that involves any kind of trade, even if it's calling web pages, so far it hasn't been approved to my knowledge. But there are these sophisticated web apps where it's just in the browser. And they use this new, I don't know if it's HTML5 or something, the guys can correct me, but where it actually can store data locally, like almost like a super cookie, or can actually access databases. So they can really build an app that's all web-based. So that's kind of what the take they've been doing with Apple. But Android usually is now the first one to develop on because you can do anything on Android. Got a little bit of Android. Yeah, yeah. So that'll be slick. I think I could envision it saying, just putting them out and go, where do you want it? Tom Trade Hill, Two Mountain Rocks, One Mountain Rocks to my bank account, whatever. Very simple. Like a nice user interface where you just have to tap it, it'll highlight. We're building a new site now actually. So that's one of the last announcements. But it'll be a cool interface where it literally comes to the side. It's like totally web 3.0. Choose on the left exchanges or payment methods. You highlight it over the same thing on the right. And then in the middle, there's like the box where you enter in all your information and you hit transfer. Perfect, perfect. Very easy. You make that mobile browser friendly. Exactly. You know what you're done with that. You have an app. That's all pretty much all you need anyway. I mean, a lot of times I think that people make, I mean apps are nice, but people go app crazy and No need for it. There's so many things that you can just do with a web browser. You have to be online anyway. You have to be on the internet anyway. Exactly. So why not just open up a browser and if you have big buttons, I mean, it's easy. Browsers are much easier to update too. Something goes wrong. You have to push it through the app store if there's a problem. Instantly. It's all done on your own servers and not through Apple. And it's... Exactly. Exactly. You have total control over it. You don't want apps to know a lot of your information too. Right. And you can also pull a feature off. You can go backwards if there's a problem. You can change anything. So without having to go through anybody else, exactly. What else? New payment methods you already mentioned, including Duala Liberty Reserve, Paxum, record time of 11 seconds from payment on the hub page to payment into a trade hill account. Wow. What's OKPay? OKPay is a new one. OKPay just started accepting Bitcoin actually as a deposit method. They're another Liberty Reserve slash Paxum type of company, but they accept all different types of payment methods. So you can actually use a credit card, fund your OKPay account with dollars, and then use your OKPay dollar account to transfer that with BitInstant. But because, again, they're very fully integratable, you don't have to go to the OKPay website to do all that. You come to us, you choose you want OKPay, and it will show you the OKPay logo. You'll see be able to use credit cards, a whole amount of different Russian e-currencies, and a lot of the Southern American ones, and all the other ones, because there's so many of them. The key is to bring them all together so you can push in and out, and then you can choose however you want to do it. That's amazing. I know Paxum has one unique feature. I don't know if these others do, but I am familiar with Paxum, in that they have a credit card, like it's either a MasterCard or Visa, so that you can access a debit card. So can't I just take my, I can just do a BitInstant withdrawal to Paxum, and then just use my credit card? Can I take that credit card into an ATM or get cash? Yeah, it's a full MasterCard. You can, there are fees associated with Paxum, taking money out is a little bit more expensive than using it as a credit card, but you can use an ATM. Once we launched with JURLs, we already spoke with Paxum, and we're all good with them, you'll be able to take money, instilling out of your trade hill account or Gox account through us, you'll have the money in Paxum instantly, and then you can walk around with your MasterCard and buy whatever you want. You can shop for the order of an ATM and get cash for a little bit more fee. And not having to wait. Are the fees expensive for the ATM withdrawing cash? It's worth a cent. So it's not a lot, but it adds up. If you're talking about $120, it's a lot. Although people pay these crazy ATM fees as it is, so it depends on how desperately they need the money, I suppose. Strip clubs are like 10 bucks. I wouldn't know about that, but sure. Yeah, right. Anyway, on that note, I want to just take a moment and thank our sponsors. First, Mt. Gox. Mt. Gox, obviously, the number one Bitcoin exchange. Yeah, switch over there. Mt. Gox is M-T-G-O-X for those of you who aren't familiar. Who isn't familiar with Mt. Gox? Everyone knows Mt. Gox. Yeah, right. They are the number one market leader and probably the oldest in existence, Bitcoin exchange. They are the online Bitcoin exchange site where you can buy and sell Bitcoin for at least 16 currencies. They may be more now, but at least 16 for sure. I remember that. And they're in Tokyo we were talking about. I went there a month ago, or how long has it been? Two months ago. That's how we met. We had the internet the night before your flight. When was that? Two months ago? That was, yeah, a while ago, like two months ago. So long ago. It's crazy, time flies. Well, we're finally going to air that video because it's just so sweet. You're going to get the tour of the offices and all that. Had a great time over there. Yeah, stay tuned for that in upcoming episodes. I'm going to go through and narrate and show you the whole stuff. But anyway, Mt. Gox is in Tokyo and they're the number one Bitcoin exchange site. They, you know, obviously. Tradles catching up there. And so are they? Tradles market share. When Tradles started accepting BitInstant, August 16th, remember the day, I have a chart. You can actually go to bitcoincharges.com and see Tradles market share went from 8% to 17%. Wow, that's good. So because they took a bit instant. Because now they get their money in faster. Well, now Mt. Gox is taking a bit instant. Now Mt. Gox has it too. They might grab that market share back. So show them again Mt. Gox. It's mtgox.com. Be sure and check them out. And now they accept BitInstant. So it's all one big business partner. Right, exactly. So we can just flow the money flows in every direction. So anyway, thanks Mt. Gox for, be sure and email Mt. Gox and thank them for sponsoring the Bitcoin show. Because without them, we wouldn't be able to tell you about all this, this cool stuff. And the Thank You Economy. The Thank You Economy is a book by New York Times bestselling author, Gary Vaynerchuk, which you may know. He's very famous from wine TV. It's a classic book. Serial entrepreneur. He's a brilliant, brilliant guy. Shockingly young for being so wise. But I read his books and his office is right over here just a few blocks away. Anyone who wants to do any business in management or marketing has to read this book. Yeah. It's like a Bible for a new business and a new economy in this world of web 2.0, 3.0, whatever we're at. It really explains how to use, how to leverage these new technologies. The web, the social media and all this stuff properly. Everybody knows how to, well not everybody, most people know how to create a Twitter and Facebook page and all that stuff. But when they're trying to market their business, they're doing it all wrong. They get spammy and they really turn off their customers. But if you do it right, and Gary Vaynerchuk teaches you how in this book, the Thank You Economy, you can actually bring your, instead of selling stuff, you can build and create relationships, long-term relationships and give people, the customer service like your grandparents used to get from the corner store. I have to attribute a lot of an instance of that book because in the book he really goes over, he says to you in the book in the first couple of pages, take any talent that you have and even if you're scared, give it a shot, try it, make it a business, go for it, you have nothing to lose, especially in this economy when there are more investors than there are businesses to invest in. That's right. Yeah. Gary, go for it. This show, the Bitcoin show is a perfect example of that because I don't have any talent whatsoever, but we started out. We know that. We can do it anyway. Oh, thanks. But we do it anyway, you know, and if you look at the very, very early episodes where we had like no audio, oh my gosh, it was really, really a mess and the lighting, the audio, I mean, anyway, it's getting better, but that's the thing. You just like Nike, just do it, just do it, whatever it is, just do it. You know, on computers and you figure it out. Beautiful studio, yeah. Fake it till you make it, just fake it till you make it. Fake it till you make it. That's a great one, I didn't hear that one before. Oh yeah, I didn't create it, but I've heard it. Fake it till you make it. I don't even know where I heard that, but yeah. That's like my mantra right there. That's it. You just fake it till you make it. That's right, exactly. And you do and it's, that's the thing. It's just, it's a positive affirmation. It's whatever you believe it and you focus on it. That's a whole other show. But anyway, but isn't it, isn't it so true? But I think it's all, it's all part of this philosophy that Gary teaches in that book. So by that book, thank, what is it? Thankyoueconomybook.com. That's what it is. Yeah. So anyway, all right. So yeah, that's it. Thankyoueconomybook.com. So thanks to Gary and the gang for sponsoring the Bitcoin Show too. Let them know we appreciate it. All right. So back to bit instant. So, all right. Let me go back down. Still going through the press release here of all the other new features. We, okay. API, we got a Gox, S.H. Fork that I was talking about before. That's the software that you can actually command line soft that you can download. Oh, that's like, oh, you could use it. You could develop it. No, it's not, we didn't develop it. It's it was developed for Gox. Oh, it's a, it's a trading software for Gox. But we kind of created a fork of it our own. Thus it's called a fork. Exactly. And that, so with added capability of integrating with bit instant. Yeah, of course. Exactly. Perfect. And it's all automatically updated. You can download it straight from our site too. So it's online. So you can use it from any, from your laptop or wherever you are. Yeah. I mean, you have to have some, some sort of knowledge of, of running commens, but it's pretty simple. But the idea, I mean, is who's using that? Are they mostly developers creating their own app? Traders and arbitrageers and. So they develop their own software and they just use that. Yeah. A lot of it, more of the geeky and nerdier guys who don't want to visit the user interface. It's not that pretty. So I like it. I love the orange. This is pretty. Yeah. Compared to command line, but I mean, the command lines are here. But if you're sure both. Also, well, yeah. Something happens to command line, you kind of diagnose the problem a lot better. Easier, yeah. What's the difference between using the API? Why would you use the API versus the GoxSH fork? So the fork, the fork is standalone software. The API is for integration to your own software. So if you have, there are a lot of, you can download on the forums and just you've Google it. You can download a bunch of Bitcoin trading bots that you can trade between the exchanges. You can transfer your money around and do like that. So our API does that automatically. We have customers who literally just use our API, have arbitrage bots. And as soon as, and this is a lot of, most of our arbitrage customers who use our arbitrage do this. So they download, use our API into their bots. And as soon as their bots run out of money in one exchange, it automatically initiates a bit instant transfer of money from where it's needed. Gox, a trader, a trader to Gox, to Dweller, wherever it needs to be. It's all automated for them. So I'm seeing like, transfers coming through at two or three in the morning when I know this guy is sleeping. But he's doing it. Are you connected with CampBX and all of those yet? So we're speaking to all the exchanges and most of them are actually approaching us about this. We have some risk by keeping a lot of money with them. So I'm very reluctant to work with CampBX, especially what happened with Bitcoin 7. They just disappeared out of nowhere and they took everyone's money. So I don't want that to happen to me. CampBX I don't really know much about yet. They're still very small. They haven't really grown that much. So I'm not really working with them. Interest Angles is growing nicely and they're very stressed where the crypto exchange is very new. But we work out a deal with them to minimize the risk. And so a lot of other exchanges we're very excited to see them grow. The more exchanges, the better it is for the economy. The key is liquidity. Right. Liquidity, just like cash, Bitcoin should be just as easy. Once we get over that obstacle of liquidity, the Bitcoin economy can really grow and we can start getting merchants to start using Bitcoin and we can really take it mainstream and start to tackle the legal obstacles at that point. But liquidity needs to be taken care of. Right, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so then that's what you're doing. You're filling up a need here for sure. And then what else? You have a 10 out of 10, five-star rating from... What is that, 10-10? Or is that October 10th? 10 out of 10. Oh, 10 out of 10. Five-star rating from resellerradings.com. Reseller ratings is integrated with Google. So if any, you know, B&H, any major retailer, Amazon, Dell.com, all have ratings on reseller ratings. Most customers go to reseller ratings before buying from the store to see how I'm plugging reseller ratings right here. They go to the website before they buy from the store to see the ratings. We have only five-star reviews if you go to reseller ratings, type in BitInstate, you'll see only good things to say. All of our customers love us our... Because our team is in all different time zones. We've pretty much 21, 22-hour customer service. We only sleep two hours a night. It's your money. You're so busy writing reviews. Yeah. You can't. If you try to take it, they know. So no. If you... We try to treat $35, like $3,500 because it's your money. And I know what it is to lose money. To get scammed. So I don't want to happen to anyone else. Yeah, there we are. Yeah. So true, so true. So, all right. What is this about? Depositing cash at Chase City Bank, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, ING. So this is new, right? This is huge. When did this just happen? This started... We've been in negotiations with this company for a while now, working on all the details and kinks. I'm sure you know, exchange of bitcoins before they closed down, had an account closed down. They were shut down. Trade and let ING account was shut down. City bank account was shut down. Gax has his Chase account, but who knows how long that'll stay up. Most banks don't want to work with Bitcoin related or any commodity slash auction related sites. Right, they claim it's okay. They get it in writing. It's all fine. But then later they... Well, close your accounts. Later they close your accounts. Yeah. Even if you're licensed MSB with the IRS, so in your money service business, you're legally allowed to transfer, do all of this stuff. Getting a bank to open up an account for an MSB is really, really difficult. Once they do open the account, you're subject to very high rates. So there's this company that we're working with that has accounts, many accounts, and all of these banks, the top 10 banks in the last few more credit unions, is already doing business with a lot of the online dating sites and adult porn sites and gambling sites. So you can actually go with the livedating.com who want to set up an account. You can actually go deposit cash. And the beauty of this whole thing is that even when you... with Mt. Gox, when you want to deposit cash, he has to manually log into his Chase account, see when you did it, and then approve it. So it'll take as little as 12 hours, sometimes 10 hours. I've heard people say as much as three, four days for him to approve it, especially the larger ones. That's because the banks don't really have a standard of integrating with you. So there's no way of knowing when some of the deposits cash. Like, how do you know that? Yeah. So this company already has it set up with the banks. So we're paying them a lot of money to fully integrate with us. So as soon as you deposit the cash, we'll automatically get a notification. Our software will get another notification and deposit and transfer the money to your exchange account. So it's automated? Automated. So it's really instantaneous. As soon as you deposit the cash, like I said before, it's pulled every 20 minutes on the hour. So if you deposit it at 5.30 or 5.40, it'll at 6 o'clock it'll get transferred. Wow. That's cool. I'm going to test this. Yeah, go for it. I'm going to deposit it. We've been testing. There's a lot of ways you can defraud it and go around it. Because it prints the deposits for you beforehand, we know who's cash is associated with who. So there's no way to fake it. Oh, I see what you're saying. This is what you were explaining before. Okay, I got to take that. You go to the bank and you want to deposit money in your account, right? Yeah. How do you do that? Well, Chase, now you can just go to machine and deposit a check. But most banks don't do that yet. And people still conventionally, they go to the teller, fill out a deposit slip, or even use the ATM machines. And you fill out how much you want in your account number and everything. And you deposit money. Everyone knows how to do that. We generated deposits for you. So you print it on your own computer from the website? Yeah, exactly. You just print it out. It generates it. It shows up right there. You hit prints. And there's some identifying information on the deposit slip that already tells that. It has exactly how much you want to deposit. All the information, all the bank account details, so you literally walk up to the bank. You don't have to tell the bank any information. You just hand in the deposit slip. It has the account number of our accounts on the slip. Hand in the cash or the check or whatever you want to do. And one of 16 currencies. And where is it going? I'm going to say that the bank doesn't ask you. Like, I've actually done that before. I mean, not that. But I've deposited money into someone's account before. And they'll sometimes ask you, what's the name on the account? It's all on the deposit slip already. It's all there. Everything is there. Okay. All the information on the account, the account number, who's account it is. Everything they possibly want to ask. It even has a little disclaimer on the bottom telling the bank teller exactly where this money is going to because the company that we're working with is a publicly traded company on the stock exchange owned by a big holding company. So they have federally and state licensed and they're all... They were already in this business. They've been in this business for years now. Okay. So they're not going to do that. There's no surprises for the banks. They already know what they're getting into. We had actually asked one of the banks if it's okay that we do this. And they said, sure, as long as it's going through these guys. And yeah. Wow. And their fees are really, really, really low. The fees that we worked out with them, because we're doing so much value already, the fees are very low. Much lower than whatever it would cost. So it'll cost you 1-2% to do this. Well, Chase City Bank, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, ING, that pretty much covers everybody. Yeah, we'll have a widget on the site type in your zip code or your address. Find the nearest bank branch. You choose the one you want and then print out the positive. Is that only within the US? Right now. Canada, Europe, and Australia are in the works. I'm excited for Australia, because I think the Australian market's growing with big prices. Yeah, I think so too. It's real popular there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm lucky. But they keep beating... Don't they get their accounts shut down there too? Yeah, everyone's getting their accounts shut down. The banks, they claim it's okay, and then they shut it down. So, all right. Now, instant USD withdrawals. Is this now? No, right now it's only deposits. Oh, okay. Withdrawals is the next step. It's coming soon. Is this through the same partnership or whatever? Is that how that's going to work? You'll actually be able to go to one of these banks and withdraw cash? So no, you can't do that yet. What you want to do eventually is be able to choose your account number that you want your money into. And because we have accounts at all these banks, account to account transfer within Chase is free and instant. ING direct person-to-person pay is also free and instant. It takes a couple of minutes, almost a couple of hours, because we have all these accounts to that. But with that type of withdrawal, it's still a mother to away. Instant withdrawals out of the exchanges into the payment processors that we already have now is going to be within a couple of weeks. Okay, all right, cool. As long as I get my money. Yeah, okay. We need investors right to me. I've been meeting with them and I've been meeting with dozens and we have a couple already signed on and ready to rock and roll. But I'm finding it harder to deal with, I have retail sites, so I've had to do seed funding before and it's much easier when you say I'm selling cameras, great. We hold cameras out, we know what the business is. It's like not only am I selling bit instant, I'm selling Bitcoin. So I'm selling a whole new industry and I'm spending- You have to educate them first. It's a hassle because I'm spending most of the meeting. By the time they figure out, they basically little understand what it is. It's like, how did you want to go home already? Yeah, and then they like to- Yeah, I can understand that. But meanwhile, if you wanted to open a camera site, like there's a billion camera sites- Yeah, you have to have an edge. It wouldn't even, yeah, it wouldn't even fly, probably. But this is something that's very unique. Nobody else is doing it and it's probably amazing potential. Yeah. So if our audience are already Bitcoin savvy, so if you've got some money, we would have the numbers to show it. Yeah. I don't know if I should say the number of that, but we did a pretty nice volume our first three months. Actually, I could say a lot because we posted in the form. We did roughly half a million dollars in gross revenue before costs- In gross revenue? In three months. Wow, that's great. It's pretty good. Okay, so investors send us, just send an email. Call me. I'll forward it. Yeah, I'll forward it on to you for a cut. No, I'm just kidding. You're going to pay again. No, I want to get- Yeah, but like you said, there needs to be- Like if you went over to the camera site, there would need to be an edge. You need to have something different. How are you different? Yeah. So obviously we're different with Bitcoin and with the instant, but you need to find the risky investors willing to take the jump to be the first guy. So we're working with some investors who already have started payment processing type companies before and one of them, I can't say his name yet, but he started an online game currency site. So with a bunch of video games, you can have currencies back and forth. You already started that. So he's kind of familiar with how this all works. Do you have any competition? Is anybody else trying to do this? Not that I know of. Yeah, I hadn't heard of that. I don't really know much. I guess even if there was, we have a really long leg up on them already. So we have the partnerships with the exchanges and with the payment processors. Cool. But we're really open to anyone else who has ideas. We're looking for designers, programmers, marketing people. Our company is all over the world right now. We pay very well. So give us a holler. And you're like your headquarters this year? We're based in New York. Right here. Okay, cool. In New York. All right, cool. New York and Wales. Wales? Yeah, well, I didn't mention him, but the brainchild of that instant was a brainchild and his idea of my partner and co-founder, Gareth Nelson, who's based in Wales, he's actually not Welsh. And this was totally his idea. He told me, Charlie, I want to get a faster way to get money than I got. And I said, that's a great idea. Let's do it. You know, I'll fund you. But at the same time, let's grow this. Let's make this a multi-billion-dollar business. Let's really make it big. And he's been just so devoted. I think he's like the top third. He's a god in Python programming and on Odesk, which is one of the biggest freelance programming sites to get programmers. He's like the top 30 list. Thanks for staying with me, man. Yeah. So what do you see? You know, my idea, what I'd like to see is ease of use. This is a Bitcoin, I mean, besides security, obviously it needs security. We always need security. But ease of use so that, yeah, that's what I was saying, like a smartphone app where I could just literally go, boom, boom, Mt. Cox, a thousand, Trade Hill, whatever. Like super, super, Fisher price, simple. And obviously instantaneous. And then as far as withdrawing funds. It'll be the same thing. Yeah, same thing. Did you come down and say we have the box? Maybe you could even get a, somehow, you know, whatever. You're the deal maker, realer dealer. But if you figure it out, have a, you know, a bit instant branded MasterCard visa that's really packed somewhere, whatever. No, you're right. So then you have your own branded thing. This is how you get it in, go to any bank, put in the money. This is how you get it out. Here's your MasterCard visa. Just go to any ATM. It requires a lot of regulations and a lot of, you know, a lot of laws and things like that. But basically- You're basically doing it though. Yeah. I mean, we're doing it indirectly. Everything we're doing is indirectly to avoid all like the legal obstacles until I finish all my licensing. But yeah. I mean, first what we'll do is I'll create bit instant vouchers that you can walk in and you can buy an Amazon gift card. You can buy a bit instant gift card. You come to bit instant, you can use that gift card to, for Dualla, for Liberty Reserve, for Paxom, for anywhere. You can use that voucher for credits on Trade Hill, Madcox, any of the exchanges. So that way you can get your money in and out instantly using that voucher. And you can go to a store and buy one. That's cool. When people start selling the bit instant vouchers to themselves. So it kind of becomes its own. So to the end user, me, the viewpoint of the end user in least in my case is, I don't really care how complex it is and how indirectly it happens. Yeah. I don't- It's like making a phone called to China. I don't really care- But you don't know. How it gets there. I don't even know, right? I don't know and I really don't care. What I care about is how easy it is to just pick up the phone and dial the number. Don't forget. And the price, of course. So the price and the ease and the simplicity. So that's why- The security, yeah, of course. Insecurity, all those things, of course. Yeah, that goes without saying the price and the security for sure. But after the price and the security, then it's just the ease of use. I don't want anything complicated. I want it to be so simple that literally I get a bit instant visa or a bit instant Mastercard or something. You know what I mean? Something that's just so, so easy. Install the app. You know, like, you've ever seen that square where you can accept- Yeah, sure, I have one. Simple. Like that. Use it for consulting. That's one of the most- The one of the- I mean, you know, their fees are what their fees are. But the fact is it's- Yeah, but it is easy. And people like easy. People really, really like easy. So imagine a system where you can literally load your Mastercard. But by loading your Mastercard, you're not just loading your Mastercard. You're also loading money into your bit instant account. So you can use that money to put it anywhere you want. Yeah. And then at the same time, use that to buy cash. So you buy Bitcoins. You want to cash out of Bitcoins. You don't have to wait at all. Once you have your money in Gox or in Trade Hill, you can easily walk up to a store and use that cash. So then at that point, Bitcoin actually becomes finally a currency that's more ease of use. Are you going to be involved- What are you going for? Are you thinking of getting involved at the retail level as far as point of sale? Or is that something that's just beyond what you're- The idea is out there. The idea is out there to become a merchant processor. The idea is to build a point of sale. The beauty of it is that we already have the software built already from where I can open up a merchant solution in a couple of days. But there are merchant solutions. There are- I know someone is working on a really, really nice point of sale system. I've been helping him out on that a little bit. So the ideas are there and we may do it down the road. But we're taking the day by day. We're seeing what works and what there's a need for. Yeah. And you're right. There are a lot of people developing merchant solutions. Yeah. That's sort of obvious. I think when we do do a merchant solution it will be the best one. Because besides for being able to offer the cheapest fees is that all the Bitcoin merchant solutions that you go to today they're geared towards people who have Bitcoins already. So to use Bitpay you need Bitcoins. With us, or if we integrate with Bitpay you'll be able to actually use dollars and instantly be converted into Bitcoins and then pay for on the site so you can pay cash with someone who has accepted Bitcoins. You know, that's really an interesting point because people talk about this and they talk about the volatility of the value of Bitcoin. Yeah, it goes up and down. But you know what? It's really irrelevant. Like if you get paid in dollars and you immediately buy Bitcoin with it it doesn't matter that the value of the dollar is way down. We're just using the Bitcoin skeleton. Yeah. But it's interesting that Bitcoin could be used this way. So if I have dollars and I want to buy something from a merchant that needs dollars I can actually use Bitcoin as the currency in between for other reasons for its convenience for the fact that it's electronic it's irreversible. No, brainer for merchants. You're missing the biggest point. Merchant fees. How much does a credit card charge? Yeah, that's it. 4.5% and 4%. Yeah. They charge back. Something like 35 billion dollars a year in merchant fees. Yeah, exactly. If they were used the Bitcoin system as that workaround saving. So I run the numbers myself with my camera business. I be saving millions of dollars every year in transaction. It's like the difference between a courier service and email. Exactly. It's crazy. You're paying for the same results. And so in that case the value of the Bitcoin compared to the US dollar doesn't even matter. As long as you do it instantly as long as you're doing the trade instantly it could be a dollar, two dollars, two cents doesn't matter. As long as you're buying it and selling it, buying it and selling it. The merchant can choose how they want their money. The merchant can say I want Bitcoins, I want dollars, I want Tuvala, I want this, I want that. It does make a difference for us because we have everything. Yeah. And I think that's why Visa, Cardinal, the banks are scared of this because Bitcoin bypasses the banks. Bypasses everyone. Everybody. So they're really scared of it. And in the end the recipient can be getting US dollars in cash and the merchant because they got to place their order that week or for whatever their supplies and the customer can actually they've got cash because they just got paid. So they're buying with cash. The merchant's receiving cash but they in between is Bitcoin. And so BitInstant could work both ends of that. Think of it as like you enter your credit card number and then you have, for example, you want to buy something on one of my camera sites. You have to, it goes through us and then it goes through Authorize.net which is a merchant processor and then it goes through an in-between bank and then it finally gets to my bank account. So it takes 24 hours for things to settle and then it's a whole hassle. So it goes through so many people and there's so many fees. Bitcoin, you're bypassing that whole process. All those fees. You're having the money instantly. Soon as the customer pays you you have the Bitcoins and you can even cash it out on the spot. You don't have to wait. There's little tiny fees with BitInstant and the exchange sites but they're minuscule compared to- Oh, compared to what it is. We're talking about 1% over 4% or 5%. That's a lot of times the amount. Yeah, it's crazy. That's the beauty of it. You know what it is? I need to take this show and show this to investors because they don't understand things like that and a lot of them are too scared because they say once you have all that ready to go and once there's a market for it then call us. They don't want to go with you in the beginning. I say, look, you're getting shares in a company and nothing what it's going to be worth. I guarantee you it's worth five times the amount in 10 years in a year from now or two years from now. Exactly. It's not risky enough. It's their fault. Yeah, I know. No risk nor reward. If they Google it, they're going to learn about the high jacks and the hacks and things like that. But that's where these types of systems are the security that's needed. And we're going to be talking about an upcoming episode. We're going to be talking about version 0.5 of the Bitcoin client that came out yesterday. How about about that? Yeah, how about about that? And so we'll be talking about that and the new GUI interface and all kinds of stuff. But yeah, finally, these security and infrastructure and systems like Binocent are coming of age. We knew they're coming. But Quantica is gorgeous. Have you seen the interface? It's like trading on a real exchange, real brokerage house stocks. He really did a really nice job graphic wise and really nice wise too. And I can't say that. I know a couple of other exchanges and working on some new features as well, which are going to really revolutionize. So I think the Bitcoin is going. It's really going to be huge. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be amazing. Yeah. It's very exciting. The Wired magazine came out last night, actually. See if you can get a close-up of this. This is the December issue. It's just dated December, but it actually came out yesterday. Speak preview. I don't know if you can see that. But that's the cover. It's got Jeff Bezos of Amazon on the cover. But right up here, it says Bitcoin. And it's really cool. Yeah. It's a big article. And the rise and fall of Bitcoin, the story of the virtual currency, you can actually spend if it doesn't get stolen first. And that's exactly what we were talking about. Oh. What did they talk about in the article? Ben Wallace, who wrote this, actually hung out with us. He was here at the conference. He was at our meet-ups and everything, hanging out with us. Nice guy. Yeah. He's a really, really cool guy. And... What's the objectivity of the article? It's good. I think it's very objective. I mean, he just tells it exactly. He tells the whole story of it, how it's made, how they're made, how they're spent, what you can do with it. Time magazine came out with an article yesterday, and it's just stupid. They got their facts wrong. They said Bitcoin got hacked, and really, Mt. Godx got hacked. And they just... I'm surprised, because time is supposed to be. And I hope someone from Time is watching this show. I'm not surprised. Oh, yeah, I've done... I've done episodes where I just... You guys know I've done episodes where I just... Come on. I call it lazy journalism. Come on. You're supposed to have the standard of being objective, and you really just completely fail. The ones that really give me P.O. are the ones where they interview me, and they still write it all wrong. And they screw your words up? Yeah, they totally twist my quotes and stuff. And I actually did a whole episode dedicated to like five or six of these that were just hack jobs. But no, Ben did a really, really good job. Well, here's the best part. There's me. I don't know if you can see that. It's a great picture. You get a close-up. But anyway, that's... What are you eating in that one? That's... This is... They call... Don't say it if it's not a sponsor. No, the caption. No, no, no. Yeah, there's... The caption is Bitcoin's chief prosth... The prostheletizer. How do you say that? Prosthetic. No, Bruce Wagner, one of New York City's restaurants that accepts the currency. This is Hudson eatery, which is actually where we had dinner at the several times of the Bitcoin conference. They're the, I think, world's second restaurant to accept Bitcoin. Yeah, really good food. They're awesome. Mosaic Grill has great philosophy. Yeah, Mosaic Grill, we love them too. Yeah, of course. So anyway, Ben did a great job. I think that he points out... It's just absolutely true what he says. He points out that security is the big issue. That's what I've been saying. I mean, security and liquidity are two of the most important concerns. What are other concerns? There's the legal aspect of Bitcoin and there's still no precedence yet, but I think as more exchanges get licensed and become regulated, I think... Exactly, as long as you guys are following the regulations and, you know... And we are. They come to us and they think Silk Road, Bitcoin, drugs, literally... First thing investors ask me, I had this question yesterday and he literally said this word for what he said. Yeah, but the majority of Bitcoin is being used to buy drugs on Silk Road. The majority. Like really, like, come on, you just lost all my respect. Don't know any statistics at all, come on. Yeah, oh my gosh. You got to read more than one. So much of the media is so biased, it's crazy. Silk Road, Silk Road. They went through this whole period of Silk Road. I tried buying from Silk Road. But I did, I had a guy call me the other day. He's like... Because I put my number on the actual site and I said... Silk Road, Silk Road. No, on my site. No, on my site, Silk Road. No, I've never been there. No, I tried buying from it and it's much easier walking down the block and buying from your local dealers. See, you took my word for it. But this guy called me and he goes, from my site, bitcoinme.com. Okay, yeah, great site. Yeah, it's a little explanation of what's Bitcoin too. A little, I've used that to explain it to people before. Yeah, it's simple, right? And so, but my phone number's right there because I really want to help people learn. And if it helps them to dial a phone number and talk to me, I'll talk to him for two minutes, no problem. And so anyway, make a new friend. They can always have more. So anyway, the guy calls me and he says, he wants to know how to do it. And I said, you know, something about wiring and all that. And he's really concerned about it being anonymous. And I'm like, well, let me make it clear. It's not anonymous. It's pseudo anonymous. It's not completely anonymous. And I don't know what your needs are, but if you wire money, that's not anonymous, just so you know. Not anonymous. And I'm wearing it to all the intricacies. And finally, we were like beating around the bush and finally he said, well, let me just tell you, it's no big deal. I just want to buy something on Silk Road. I'm like, okay, that is a big deal. Sorry, that's a big deal. I have a feeling that Silk Road is probably a target. So Bitcoin is anonymous as long as you stay legal because there's no reason for anyone to find that. For example, if you were to buy drugs in Silk Road and they wanted to find out, they see your Bitcoin address in the blockchain, you can see where the Bitcoins went from and where they went to. So they can always subpoena an exchange and say who's Bitcoin addresses this belong to. So it's anonymous. When it comes to adult sites, and if you want to buy porn and you don't want your way to find out, Bitcoin is fantastic for that. In fact, that's the market that I'm going to be getting into. It's anonymous from your wife, probably. It's not anonymous from the CIA. No, we don't want it to be. No, I mean, that's the thing. So it's as anonymous as using the internet. Using the internet, I mean, is anonymous, but not really because... As long as you can't legally go around people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As Bitcoiners, there are a bunch of illegal geeks sitting at a basement somewhere, which I totally am. But you don't do legal things, but it's really not. We really want to service the world. And Bitcoin is a fantastic thing. We just have to... Like someone said on the forums, it's the answer my friend has blown in the wind. Yeah. Just like the song. We'll get there. We'll get there. Just got to grab it. So you're doing the right things. Let's do this again. For sure. And we'll talk about all the new developments as all these things we're talking about come to fruition. Because they already, I mean, all these things are really exciting that are out now, but there's a whole lot more around the corner right now. Features are going to be phenomenal. I'm really excited about it. Hope to make Bitcoin become big. And it already will. It already is. Oh, it already is. Are you kidding? It's worth almost $100 million. It's on the cover of Wired. It's on Forbes Fortune. It's everywhere. I mean, you can't hide from it. No cryptocurrency has ever been where Bitcoin is already. And now let's get to the main question that we've been kind of beating around the bush since we've been here. Who is Satoshi? Oh, no. That's on our next episode. Stay tuned. We are really out of the total. Totally out of time. But thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bit instant. Check it out. Bit instant. As in instantaneous bit instant dot com. Charlie, thanks so much. Thank you, Bruce. All right. See you guys next time. Tomorrow. Whatever. Cheers. Happy Thanksgiving. It's my birthday on Thanksgiving actually. Hey, happy birthday. Cool. We don't have to announce that though.