 We are about to kick off the last session of the day on the Ben Corbyn fight for Socialism. This is the title of a campaign that's been launched by Socialists Appeal in the Marxist Student Federation. It was actually launched during Corbyn's election campaign before he won. There have been dozens of meetings at universities all over the country. Resolutions have been passed. We participated in the founding of the Labour Young Socialists. It's a very exciting time for socialists because the election of Corbyn really raises the question of socialism in the concrete. What do socialist policies look like? What would a socialist Labour Party look like? And so the fight to defend Corbyn really presents us with the opportunity to fight for socialism. And that's what this session is about. We're very lucky to have been joined today by Steve Henley, who is the Senior Assistant General Secretary of the R&T Union. By Matt Rack, who is the General Secretary of the Farbogate Union, and Rob Sewell, who is the Secretary of Socialist Appeal. Each of the speakers will speak for 15, 20 minutes or something like that. We'll open up to the floor with the questions, comments, a bit of discussion, and then we'll bring the speakers back in at the end to summarise the discussion and answer any points. Without further ado, I'll ask Steve to speak first. Well, thanks. It's my pleasure to actually come here and address so many young people who are interested in Marxism and Socialism, and the Senior Assistant General Secretary of the R&T Union. And before we sort of talk about Corbyn and everything else, I think I'll sort of outline what I want to do today because Corbyn being elected as Labour Party leader has absolutely been a sea change in British politics. But there's also very, very important fights coming up for us as trade unionists and as Marxists and Socialists with the Tory trade union, anti-trade union legislation about to be passed, which is the most vicious piece of legislation, including what Margaret Thatcher brought in. So that's another thing that I want to touch on, which is probably a good thing. That's probably going to stop Matt Rack repeating all that, so his speech is going to be a lot shorter than maybe it would have been. But sometimes I think, I still think sometimes I'm a bit of a dream, Jeremy Corbyn is leading the Labour Party, John McDonald is the Shadow Chancellor, and the Prime Minister is doing really terrible things with pigs. And I think if somebody had said this six months ago that Jeremy Corbyn was going to be the leader of the Labour Party, it would have been met with hounds of derision. And our trade union isn't affiliated to the Labour Party, the RMT. We were actually kicked out, and we were kicked out for not allowing the Labour Party to dictate to us what we were going to do with our own money, because at the height of Blairism, there was a Scottish Socialist Party, obviously formed in Scotland, and we were giving that party some donations. Our rule book actually said we had to give the Labour Party, we had to affiliate the Labour Party, so we were trying to send them off a huge cheque every year, and because we affiliated the Scottish Socialist Party, or sorry, it supported some Scottish Socialist Party candidates, they kept sending us a cheque back and saying that they don't want it. Of course, I don't think they took the same attitude with the leaders of business and Robert Murdoch and people like that when they supported another party and not the Labour Party, they didn't banish them. The ironic thing was, of course, that over 100 years ago now, the full-runner of the RMT, which was called the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants, I can imagine the sort of times that was running in, they were calling themselves Servants, they were fundamental in forming the Labour Party, because they saw that the Liberal Party weren't delivering for working-class people and working-class people needed representation in Parliament. So there we have it. The founders of the Labour Party actually got expelled from the Labour Party for support in socialists. That's how we find ourselves in the position where we are no longer affiliated to anybody, but I'm glad they said it. We haven't caught our links totally. What we did is our members decided we were going to support candidates who supported the policies that we were pushing forward. Jeremy Corbyn is part of the RMT parliamentary group and John MacDonald. It's sort of name-dropping now, but when you've been for a cup of coffee and a pipe with these guys, you can't sort of imagine that they are now the shadow chancellor and the shadow leader of the Labour Party. Jeremy, as he's speaking again off-air, doesn't speak up. Now they're selling tickets for it apparently. They're selling tickets for people like him. But it takes a bit of getting used to it. Now this Jeremy Corbyn and John MacDonald have been absolute stalwarts and we've got about 20 members of our group, our group we support as a trade union. And we fund those people. But we weren't going to hand money over willingly to the Labour Party. People like Blair, who were attacking our interests, who were actually going around Europe boasting that they had the most restrictive anti-union legislation in the whole of Europe. Why would we give people like that money? The sort of, the children of Blair, the illegitimate children of Blair, the Liz Kendall's and people like that, why would we give them money? Now we decided we were only going to give these people money if they signed up to things like re-nationalisation of public utilities. Things on welfare that would protect working class people, the repeal of the anti-trade union laws. That was the basis and still is the basis that people get money out of the RMT to run their political campaigns. And after this day, every picket line we had, Corbyn or MacDonald or one of the other MPs, Diane Abbott, people like that, came down and supported us. They've always stood shoulder to shoulder, not just we are trade union, but we have the other trade union out there. And it was quite funny because when it was, Corbyn did get on the ticket, which none of us expected by the way, beforehand MacDonald was sitting in the RMT boardroom going, we don't think we're going to run a candidate because we don't think we're going to get enough support to get on the ballot paper. I mean, that was a week before they decided they actually stand. I'm glad they reviewed that position, but the fact was, we thought the Labour Party was finished. We as a trade union thought the Labour Party was finished. When we saw the wars in Iraq, the further anti-union legislation that the Blair government brought in, Blair may have told many lies on many things, but what he didn't do, he didn't never lie to trade unionists really, because when he said that, before he was elected, he said the trade unions can expect no favours from us. You couldn't really have it much clearer. You don't really get politicians lying to you in the reverse. If they said they're going to do something for you, they're usually lying, but if they tell you they're not going to do anything for you, you tend to believe them through your experience. Blair was very clear about that. Brown came behind him and followed on the same policies. I believe that the favourite for it was Liz Kendall at one stage. God knows what would have happened in a way. It would have finished the trade union movement's links off for the Labour Party if somebody in fact had got elected, but she didn't. She's in position now. In this anti-union legislation, that they're going to fight, and I hope that all the MPs, all the Labour Party MPs, will call themselves Labour, will actually oppose this again in the Commons when it comes back to the third time. It has to go to the Lords again. But if anybody is not going to oppose this, then they really should go and join a Tory party where they belong, or at least go to the Lib Dems. Because what it is, is that they've made down arbitrary targets. They're saying that 50% of people have to vote in elections for that election to be valid if we're balloting for a strike. Now this is a government that got elected on 25% of the popular vote. And they've done a survey that if these figures were applied to MPs, there'd only be 27 left of Parliament. That's from across all parties. But why have they picked 50%? Because they knew postal ballots. Because people, the figures are usually between 40% and 46% vote in postal ballots. And the larger the constituency is, the less people are actually they vote. Because people don't tell the trade unions where they live. And remember these ballots go to their home addresses. It's not to their workplace. And sometimes people don't tell the union they've moved address. So we'll send it there, we'll just get it sent back. We'll have to then start chasing up who the person lives. Some people just don't fill them in. They think other people will vote. Some people sit them on the mental piece. But the average is about around 45% send them back in our ballots. Remarkably, since this new legislation has been talked about we've actually done a lot better than that. So maybe it has jeered people up a bit. But let's not fall into the trap that this is about increasing participation. If this was about increasing participation in a workplace ballot where people could come along and vote in a workplace, just put your slip in the electoral reform society could monitor it there would be no funny business or they could allow internet voting which would do you several other things. Why can't people have a vote on the internet? That would increase participation. Which is done so massively. They did that with a Labour Party leadership, didn't they? So I think that Tories were trailing it for the London mayor as well. And then Cameron's on saying we're not so sure it's secure but it's okay to have as mayoral candidate elected partly on that. But that's the game at the run. They're trying to stop people going on strike. And it's not even a straight forward majority of that. A 50% of people vote. 40% of the entire people eligible to vote still have to vote yes. So it's not a straight forward democracy. You get 56% of people voting and you get 27% of people voting yes. No, it's not like that at all. 40% of the total that are allowed to vote still have to vote. So there's two barriers to get through there. One of the most bizarre elements of the legislation is that on picket lines it's not going to be an arrestable offence. You can get arrested and charged if you're not wearing an armband saying I am a picket. So this legislation I don't know about other people. The country's up sort of visions in 1930s Germany. If you're not wearing an armband identify yourself you're going to be nicked. And what they're also saying is that somebody has to have a letter saying that they're the chief picket. So obviously if anybody goes doesn't turn up with this letter saying they're the chief picket. The whole picket in process is illegitimate. You can't have a picket at all. Up until now there's been a guideline that you have six pickets. But now it's going to be legislation if there's more than six pickets then people are going to be nicked and charged. Not to say. That is an important part of the legislation and so was the voting. But a new way does it detract from even if they said we'll abolish those minor bits and we'll abolish pardon me abolish the need for pickets to identify themselves and we'll have internet voting. That wouldn't solve this problem. Because if we could have one law on this country for one person and one law for another we're going to have one law for MPs and councillors getting elected. And another law for trade union elections I don't think that's right. I think that it should be consistently applied across the piece. And I have to say I'm very surprised at some trade union leaders. He went off at somewhat of a tangent without discussing it with anybody else in the movement and said we'll just give us internet voting and everything's going to be hungry to worry. Well it's not. And the RMT's position never was that and I don't know who these people think that they're talking for certainly not talking for us. The back the Corbyn. Corbyn's been met with us and he's assured us that the Labour Party now are going to 100% oppose all this legislation that's coming towards us. And I know some people might think well you know what's the relevance of this. Well it's the first time in a generation a first time in a generation where the Labour Party leader and actually the formal policy of the Labour Party is to be the stand beside trade unionists. And it's not only you know in Parliament but actually physically they said that they're going to come on and pick it behind with us as well. If anybody's arrested for this they're going to have full support. So I think that's a tremendous turning point. And I have to say that I mean I never thought I would say this but our union obviously has its position it's got its own party democracy and we have a debate on re-affiliation at our annual general meeting where everybody will have a view and I think the annual general meeting has come up in June and that will give people a reasonable period of time they have assessed Corbyn have assessed the Labour Party and where it's going and it may or may not want to re-affiliate but on a personal basis I mean I've joined the Labour Party and anybody who knows me and knows my politics you know that is a tremendous new turn because if anybody's smugly sitting up there it's been a member for the past 20 years or so and saying that you predicted Corbyn a year ago I challenge you on that but we have to look at these circumstances and I think Corbyn represents what is a once in a lifetime once in a generation certainly because we've got a genuine socialist in there now once they follow policies that are socialist and what's he asking for most of you in here are under 25, certainly under 30 when I left school which was quite a while ago I had the opportunity to go to university and study for free I know only study for free but they get a grant when I was there the people of Britain owned the railways they owned the gas companies they owned the telephone companies they owned their water companies they owned all these companies they were all nationally owned companies and that's what Corbyn really needs to be making his policy to bring us back these aren't revolutionary socialist ideas what they are is what we had 30 years ago that's all it's not widely out there on the left that you know it's a revolution tomorrow before any of this can be achieved but I think that's necessary steps in the process to ward socialism because we can get all those things back on the public control and run for people the benefit of people and not the benefit of a few multinationals because you look at our railways now they're keeping fares low in Frankfurt and in Paris because the national railways companies of France and Germany and Holland they've all brought up massive shares in the privatised railway over here you're getting charged the highest fares in Europe and they're subsidising lower fares in Germany and the German Department of Transport are quite happy to say that you know why we have low fares here because we're invested in England so if it's possible for every other national rail company in Europe they make a profit from British railways surely it should be viable for the British government they make a profit from that and put it back into the railways I mean you would think that wouldn't you but apparently that's beyond the mean of this conservative government and beyond the mean of what was the new Labour Party and I'm glad to say one of the first things that Corbyn came out with and said is going to re-nationalise the railway he's going to do it slower than we want it what he's going to do is bring it in franchise by franchise when it ends our solution would be just to re-nationalise it all without compensation I don't remember rail workers or the people of this country being compensated when they privatised it it might be wrong but I don't remember that and I don't see why we should compensate them after they've taken hundreds of billions of pounds out of our industry and absolutely squandered it so that's where we are and from Corbyn's point of view if he doesn't start making the headlines and certainly agenda by saying they'll do this in the railway and in the other national utilities and setting a policy agenda we're going to be reading about him not standing up to God Save the Queen and all that and wouldn't it be remarkable a remarkable fit of hypocrisy if an atheist republican got up and saying God Save the Queen there being he didn't exist he thought didn't exist to a hangover of the feudalist system which is here now I don't think we should ever apologise for him doing that but back and I'll probably finish up on this point I would encourage on a personal basis everybody that's here and anybody of a like mind to yourselves to join the Labour Party now I think Corbyn's been opposed probably about half the parliamentary Labour Party I think that's about 120 people but what you've had is 350,000 people voting for him and saying that they agreed with his politics and they wanted a change they didn't want Tory light they didn't want somebody to come like Blair to take over or worse than Blair they wanted a real alternative fighting for working class people and you know what if we don't get in there and defend Corbyn and finish off this new Labour mob they are going to finish him off there's absolutely there's no middle ground in this those people are absolutely treacherous I don't know what brought them in the politics really when you've seen people before that joined the Labour Party they wanted a better world I think since Blair people have joined the Labour Party to get a career most of them have never had a job I'm not having to go at university students here but most of them have gone to university they've got a policy wonks job down at parliament and then they've become an MP there used to be bus drivers and railway workers and some of you students you used to have an eclectic mix in the Labour Party it was alright but you had people that went and did a day's work and had connections with working class people and trade unions in that movement you haven't got that anymore and that's what Corbyn needs to change most of all he's got to bring working class people right into the heart of the Labour Party so this isn't something I think that we can stand by on and just watch from the sidelines because if he's done in a chance on the generation of actually getting some progressive politics in this country and why are they so afraid of him they're so afraid of him because for the first time in 30 odd years you've got somebody who can shift the balance of power away from the capitalist class towards the working class that's it the gravy train will be over for them and their lackeys and they know it and that's why they fear Corbyn and that's why we should be supporting him so if there was any one message I would like to give from this personally I'll be supporting Corbyn I hope my union takes the decision to re-affiliate at our annual general meeting and I hope everybody here will pay an active part in supporting Corbyn in whatever way they can because it really is an opportunity that we can't pass thanks very much Comrades, thanks for the invitation to speak here today and it is a great pleasure to be discussing issues like this at such a time and it really is a remarkable period in British political history our nice permit for me since on the TUC general council and on the TUC executive and if you think about Corbyn you now have the leader of the official opposition who is far to the left of the vast majority of the parliamentary Labour party and who is far to the left of the vast majority of the TUC general council and it is unprecedented and absolutely staggering and we've been through a remarkable summer and I think Steve's phrase absolutely right this is the chance of a lifetime and I think people above all else have to really think, discuss and address what we're all going to do because if the left fails then we deserve to be condemned by those who come after us if we fail because of division, because of sectarianism or whatever then we deserve to be condemned by subsequent generations because this period will be written up in history books and there's a huge burden therefore on the shoulders of all of us who are involved in politics today and just picking up on some of Steve's points and it is great to see a lot of younger people I joined the Labour party and I joined the Labour Party Young Socialists in 1978 and just to give you a flavour of the movement that we had then compared with what we have seen and what still exists in 1979 we had 12 million plus people in trade unions there was almost there were people outside the Labour party on the left but it was almost automatic that if you were on the left you would get involved in trade unions get involved in the Labour party and so on I was a youth delegate was put on a trade council in Salford which was a huge organisation representing workers in local factories and industries but where they had a direct input into the Labour party Labour councils and so on there were all sorts of debates between the left and the right but it really was a very different world to the one that we've seen emerge over the last three decades because we have seen and there's no getting away from it our movement has been thrown back we have today something like six and a half million workers in trade unions the core of our labour movement the big industries which form the backbone of the trade union movement have by and large been destroyed we had a whole period of historic defeats of the steel workers of the mine workers in the print that have thrown our movement back and that has had political implications and those defeats were the basis on which Blair and that crowd took control of the Labour party on the back of the defeats particularly of the 1980s so the very ideas of basic trade unionism were thrown back the ideas and there's debates about what people mean by socialism but the very idea that people were socialist in some way were thrown back and also alongside that the very idea that people should be interested in politics has been thrown back and people are usually disillusioned with the whole and I think Steve touched on it very well the whole idea that politics becomes a career move for these spads and all this people coming out of universities getting special positions all looking the same sounding the same spouting the same nonsense frankly so you can hardly tell a difference between which parties a lot of these people are in and that's the what has happened to our movement Blairism is a key factor in that but it's created all sorts of tensions and fragmentation in the Labour movement which wasn't there when I got involved in the Labour movement Steve has noted how the RMT were expelled from the Labour party my own union voted in 2004 to leave and to disaffiliate from the Labour party that's not actually a position that I have ever personally argued for but I will say this it was without doubt a reflection of the democratic decision of our members in the aftermath of a bitter pay strike in 2002-2003 against the Blair government we had a conference in 2004 then leadership said actually we intend to take no different approach to the Labour party so no concession to the huge anger that existed among members and the conference I think voted democratically to disaffiliate from the Labour party and I've been on record and our executive is discussing it the Corbyn position completely altered that I welcome what Steve has said it would be crazy for unions not to start to talk about relationship with the Labour party and isn't it remarkable this voting system that was let's remember a voting system dreamed up by the right wing of the Labour party precisely to stop the left getting any hold because their view is this the activists you can't trust and actually if you go out to this sort of primary system you'll get all these sensible members of the public voting and you will stop any nutty lefties getting anywhere and what a remarkable way that backfired on them where in every single category in the Labour party members in the affiliated union membership and in the new supporting category Corbyn wiped the floor with all those other so called leading leading Labour politicians absolutely fantastic because underneath all this in those years when our movement back when ideas have been set back underneath it there was this huge subterranean anger against the political establishment against the political elite against that elite in the Labour party and against the failure of all those politicians including Labour politicians to do anything about all the attacks that we're having to do anything about the cuts to do anything about the attacks on our unions all of these things underneath exploded in this support for Corbyn and the political establishment are absolutely astounded and they still can't come to terms with how Corbyn this so called oddball on the far left of the Labour party has ended up leading her Majesty's opposition as it is called and just picking again on some of the Steve's book although we're disaffiliated we have a parliamentary group our parliamentary group is made up of MPs, people we hope we can rely on because we don't want MPs who are going to stab us in the back as some of them did in 2002-2003 when we went on strike but McDonnell and I just want to pay tribute to John McDonnell has played a remarkable role in organising trade unions politically and creating new political groups in parliament on behalf of a whole number of trade unions ourselves and the RMT as well as a whole number of others so I'm sure that the RMT executive John McDonnell attends our executive regularly just a year ago Jeremy Corbyn gave the report to our unions executive and the relationship is so long-standing we've got pictures of Jeremy Corbyn on a picket line in the first ever strike of firefighters in 1977 there's not many MPs who've got such a consistent record of supporting workers in struggle as Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell and we presented him as a result of that with a 25 year 25 year FBU badge in recognition of his work with us at that point and right at the start even though we are not affiliated we've supported John McDonnell in his previous challenges for labour leadership we went to our executive and we put a proposal to our executive that we should support Corbyn's campaign and I have to say I went across to our union's president and said let's be Frank Helen he's probably not got a hope in help but it is the right thing to do for this union and I am so pleased that it was the right thing to do for this union I said very clearly early on it should be a no-brainer for every single union to support Corbyn because if you look at policies if you look at the policies that most unions have, if you look at the policies of the trade union congress the candidate in that election who was closest to the position of all the unions was without doubt Jeremy Corbyn and I have to say that some of those disaffiliated unions or non-affiliated unions and some of those smaller unions like ourselves, like the RMT like the Bakers and the TSSA I think undoubtedly played a role in then pushing pressure on the bigger unions to then support Corbyn because I've got no doubt and I don't want to go into too much detail people's personal positions, but let's be clear there are people in those bigger unions who did not want the support for Corbyn with that but because that momentum was growing, that snowball was growing they were forced to support to come out and support Corbyn and you know I spoke people remember the big anti-asterity march in June I believe and I spoke on a platform at the start of that and I said from the Boston that it should be a no-brainer that the unions should get behind Corbyn and it was remarkable because the reaction to that clearly showed what that support that momentum was going to grow and develop and you began to get the possibility that actually Corbyn could actually succeed in that in that election and so we had this remarkable victory and we've had this position where tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of people have got involved and interested in left-wing politics and that again is a chance of a lifetime the chance of a generation that we can't afford to throw away and I just want to go through some of the threats that exist that we need to be alive to because the very first challenge to the Corbyn leadership was about the appointment of the Shadow Cabinet and I think you've got to make all sorts of compromises sometimes unnecessary in politics and let's be clear if you're dealing with a parliamentary Labour party where only 20 or so of them actually support you you haven't got much choice about who you can appoint to the Shadow Cabinet and clearly one risk was the whole thing imploded right from the start but a clear challenge who was going to be Shadow Chancellor a key position in the Shadow Cabinet and I'm absolutely clear that if Jeremy Corbyn had not appointed John MacDonald as Shadow Chancellor then to be frank he would have been a lame duck leader from the start and let's be clear huge pressure was put on him within the Labour Party and I have to say regrettably within the trade union movement to stop MacDonald from being appointed as Shadow Chancellor so it was remarkable success and a tribute to Jeremy that he did stick by his guns and he appointed MacDonald as Shadow Chancellor because they are clearly the two longest standing closest political allies whatever disagreements I may have them on this or that or this or that point and it was absolutely correct but there are now a huge threat to the Corbyn leadership and there is a clear agenda to destroy Jeremy Corbyn to destroy Jeremy Corbyn's leadership and to destroy John MacDonald at the same time to end this rebellion because what right of ordinary people got to start interfering in politics what right of ordinary people got to start saying we want politicians who are going to stand up for us and stand up against cuts and so on so there are threats from the Tories there are threats from the press I mean it is remarkable the scale even at this stage not even in a general election campaign the scale of the horrendous attacks horrific and personal attacks on Corbyn and MacDonald that we've already seen day in day out they've got whole teams of journalists in the major press and in the BBC by the way looking at every opportunity to have a go at them to expose division and to try and embarrass them we've already heard by the way and this is a warning further down the line a national newspaper Sunday Times or whatever reporting a general a general employee of the state telling the journalists that actually there would be direct action against the Corbyn Government if they tried to cancel Trident for example but what sort of you get a pretty clear warning so there is a clear warning about what might come along in the future but I think the most urgent threat actually exists within the Labour Party and within the trade unions because there is undoubtedly whether it's half whether it's three quarters I suspect a majority of the parliamentary Labour Party can't wait to see the back of Jeremy Corbyn and there are many of them scores of them in my opinion would rather see Labour lose the mayoral election in London the Scottish elections all the local elections and the general election in 2020 there would rather see a Labour defeat than see a Corbyn Government and see Corbyn succeed and let's not forget because there's all sorts of expectations being put on Corbyn if Labour doesn't do well in the Scottish elections actually he's finished etc after the general election most of the Labour right and most of the trade union leaders were already writing off the 2020 election they were saying that Tories will win in 2020 and what we've got to do is plan for after that so we can't accept any blame on Corbyn the idea you can blame Corbyn Labour has done in Scotland by the way is nonsense what Labour has done in Scotland is down to hard right Blair right and they need to take the blame for the failures of Labour in Scotland three tasks or challenges that I've put in an article just last week that I think we need to do first of all we need to build a united left movement to defend Corbyn and because if we don't then the whole project will come tumbling down that needs to be in my view as broad as possible it needs to be democratic and there are all sorts of debates around this we've seen the announcement of the launch of well a sort of semi launch by the way of momentum which seems to exist mainly as an email system and a Twitter account at the moment but we need a genuine movement that is organised in local communities that is organised in the trade unions and is democratic and is allowed to debate political ideas but that needs to be that needs to be built secondly the trade unions we need to organise within the trade union I won't go over what Steve said about the trade union but the trade unions are facing before the general election on the TUC general council the reference was made if the Tories win it is an existential threat to the trade union movement many people seem to have forgotten that phrase after the Tories won and many people unfortunately want to keep their heads down for five years hoping that it will all go away well it's not going to go away we need to build a movement that is prepared to challenge the Tories to challenge this government if this trade union bill comes in but the only way we're going to do that because the trade union movement has beaten industrial relations legislation before but it's done so not on the basis by the way of abstract calls on the TUC general council to do with this or that but because you had on the ground a mass movement of shop stewards well organised in industry who created movements regardless of what the leadership was done and then the leadership will be forced to move so I'm on the TUC general council I'm prepared to support any calls that are made for the TUC to do something but I think at the same time we need to build a genuine democratic rank-and-file shop stewards type movement on the ground and that also then needs to discuss politics and needs to demand that trade union leaders do not start to put the knife into the Corbyn McDonald leadership that we have in the parliamentary Labour party and the final point I'll say is about ideas because actually we've got the opportunity to start discussing really what sort of world we want to live in to start discussing the idea of an alternative because it has been rammed down everyone's throat for 30 odd years that there is no alternative there's no alternative to cuts there's no alternative to attacking trade unions there is no alternative to the market and to the rule of the market and to the international rule of the market and actually what we've got the opportunity to discuss here is actually what can we do that is different and for me that's about opening a discussion about socialism what do we mean by socialism what sort of socialism do we want to argue and fight for I'm very proud in my union I believe in the RMT as well the people who founded our unions in many cases including the big unions across the country today were often people who saw the need to organise workers to fight over pay to fight over safety to fight over pensions and day-to-day issues but also had a longer term vision that said actually why do we have to live in a world like this why can't we live in a world that actually is not run for profit but is one in the interest of the majority so the people who founded my union for example in my rulebook the preamble to our rulebook makes very clear that we as a union are part of the international working class movement and we have as our ultimate aim the bringing about the socialist system of society in the 1980s and 90s many unions wrote those sort of clauses out of their rulebooks I'm proud that we haven't done so and I think this period offers us the opportunity young people, people in trade unions people in local communities all across the country to discuss politics to discuss what sort of movement we need and to discuss what sort of world we want to live in and the Corbyn victory has opened all those possibilities we've got to seize those possibilities and take the chance to change British politics fundamentally in our favour and hopefully to change the world in our favour as well OK, thanks Matt Well comrades, first of all I'd like to say also that it's a great pleasure to share a platform with our comrades both are known for a number of years we had discussions all sorts of questions a few points on which way forward for Britain, the Labour Party goodness those what but now things have come to a head I think it was Lenny who said that theory is grey my friend but the tree of life is ever green it's the reality, the events which are vital and I appreciate the points that the trade union movement was built obviously to defend and struggle on behalf of the working class even for a new society and it was the unions who built the Labour Party financed the Labour Party and the Labour Party under the impact of the Russian Revolution of 1917 adopted clause 4 part 4 that capitalism could never solve the problems of the working class then only the overthrow of capitalism could be the way forward for the workers in Britain and internationally now the I think the the knot of history is being retired here we've gone through the desert I would say politically a period of reaction of factorism of blairism of the retreats and the defeats of the past the impositions now I think we've reached a turning point and this carbon victory is carbon revolution as it's been called although it's not complete far from complete certainly is a fundamental turning point in politics in Britain and also have an impact I believe internationally that the ruling class is terrified of what's going on here I saw one article in the financial time said well it's like Podema's, it's like Syriza and they said no these organizations Syriza and Pozema they are new organizations the Labour Party is 115 years old it has roots in society it's formed a government it's a different weight altogether and for this these events to take place in the Labour Party well for them is terrifying and for us it's a great thing it's a we're proud to be involved in politics at this point in history it's a wonderful time and we have to recognize why this has happened the reason for carbon and the carbon movement is because of the enormous build up of discontent and anger and frustration in society over many many years particularly since the crisis of 2008 on the austerity and the attacks on the working class you could see the anger rising not only in Britain but internationally this anti-capitalist mood everywhere but in Britain it had no expression it had no outlet Ted Grant founder of Socialist Appeal Great Marxist understood that in Britain and the traditions of Britain the Labour Party would play a central role because the roots it has in society and he said sooner or later events events events would transform the situation and transform the Labour Party it's been a long long time coming it is true but by Christ this is what's happening in front of us the Labour Party has been transformed hundreds of thousands of people joining the Labour Party not to support the right wing but to change society that's in the heart of hearts against Blairism and all the past and therefore this has been a colossal transformation yes by an accident as I explained earlier on I think to the comrades as Marx said that necessity expresses itself sometimes through accident for Jeremy Corbyn to be put on the ballot paper was the biggest accident in history particularly those right wingers who lent their names to it now dubbed the morons the moron tendency and they've reaped the world wind because it's not just Jeremy Corbyn and that he has played a great role in fighting for those ideas for 30 years but what he represents the hundreds of thousands and the millions that stand behind him that's what terrifies the ruling class and what a left Labour Government could mean that is why the general staff are probably talking about it big business is talking about it in the clubs of London and so on as they've done previously about what they would do to a left Labour Government that's the music of the future they write Corbyn off I don't believe it should be written off the way the Tories are going to act making cuts of 40% are going to be so draconian that people will mutiny that they will see the only way out would be the election of a Labour Government and that's what terrifies the ruling class because let's be clear for the ruling class the Labour Party was a party to be used unabused I think it was Ted Grant who used the cricketing analogy he said the ruling class put in the first 11 the Tories, the real representatives of capitalism but when they mess up when they got a bit of a sticky wicket then they are put to the side and the second 11 are putting to power the Labour leaders the right wing Labour leaders who then carry out the dirty work of capitalism and clean up the mess and then are thrown by the wayside and the first 11 come back twiddly-de twiddly-dom as it's been like for decades and decades because the Labour Party has been under the control of the right wing it's under the control of the agents of capitalism and while that was the case it was a safe party for capitalism it was a means by which they can control the working class and therefore this this amazing fact Jeremy Corbyn the leader of the British Labour Party for Christchurch this is astounding and what it represents of course that is why the ruling class are in a frenzy they're attacking him left, right and centre he's a threat to national security a threat to families a threat to everything and this poison is poured out left, right and centre day in and day out why? to destroy him because they cannot allow a left Labour Party to come to power what they want to do is make the party safe for capitalism and that's why you got I think it's about 90% of the parliamentary Labour Party certainly didn't support him and then you have people like Simon Danzak is it from Rothsdale wonderful MP who come out and said that we should get rid of Corbyn on day one let's have a coup against Corbyn you got this Tom Harris I think he was kicked out as an MP in south Glasgow good riddance and what did he say that we should get an assassin an assassin to get rid of Corbyn this is the kind of language even before he got into power even before he was elected they showed the hatred of these people because what are they they are extreme right wing careerist politicians they've been there and nurtured and the Blair and before and they have ruled the roost in the Labour Party they've dominated the scene where everything was stagnant who were in retreat they're like a bath it's like a bath of dirty water where the scum rises to the top and these people of the scum of the earth where he comes to the Labour movement they're careerists they're in it for their own ends and above all they want to keep the Labour Party safe for capitalism that's their function bow down to the market bow down to their Tory infiltrators into the Labour Party if you like and they have declared war let's not mince words this is going to be a life and death struggling the Labour Party the capitalists are behind it the capitalists cannot lose the Labour Party they will fight and fight again in order to control it so they have launched an almighty struggle to smash Corbyn to smash the Corbyn movement therefore it's up to yes I agree it's up to us it's up to working people to the trade unions and I think that if anybody's worth their salt they should be involved in this struggle it's a struggle between the left and the right it's a struggle between the working class and capitalism and the capitalist agents and therefore it's not a question of this, that and the other this is the real struggle it opens up and I think that it's great we should discuss in the FBU on the RNT and I'm the first to recognise why they were kicked out and they were disaffiliated I'm going to first to understand the tyranny of of Blairism who wanted to destroy the Labour Party anyway the first leader in the history of the Labour Party who wanted to destroy the Labour Party and carry out the disaffiliation from the unions and turn the Labour Party into a bourgeois party a Tory party but Blairism's had its limits there's a huge swing now to the left there's a radicalisation taking place because of the capitalist crisis of course the struggle is not pre-ordained it's a struggle of living forces and yes I know that a lot of people have different vested interests but our task in my opinion is to ensure the deslection of all these characters all those who are fighting Corbyn and stabbing them in the back including the shadow cabinet as well they should face re-selection which is a democratic right of party members to select who they have as representatives of the party and they should be cleared out they should go with the Tories where they belong and we should have fighters as leaders and as representatives of the Labour Party oh yes prepare to accept a new and ordinary skilled worker and not be parasites off our back that's a vital question I think also as Matt alluded to this is opening up a possibility to debate ideas for the first time it's been like an intellectual concentration camp under Blairism our task is to bring the ideas of socialism back on the agenda why? because we are facing the greatest crisis of capitalism in the history of capitalism since 2008 on the ongoing crisis this is an epoch of permanent austerity capitalism can no longer afford any reforms it is counter reforms it is a tax on the working class and we are talking about next year a new economic crisis that could lead to a depression and all that could mean for the working class in Britain and internationally what we've seen up to now is nothing compared what's going to come and it's these attacks to radicalise and re-radicalise the working class in Britain and especially the youth and women workers that is why this isolated clique on the top of the Labour Party hasn't got a great deal of support only in the newspapers and the backing of the ruling class itself are we at the same as Marxist at least we represent the memory of the working class we learn about the lessons of previous Labour governments and we have a right to say that no Labour government should patch up capitalism to try and make capitalism work better than the Tories because every time they've done it they've ended up carrying out counter reforms and you had the defeat of that Labour government capitalism itself is in deep crisis and therefore we have the austerity there was someone who said well austerity is a choice it is not a choice under capitalism at this point in time and therefore there's never been such a greater need for socialist ideas of the need to control the economy because when I entered politics in the 1960s we had the Wilson Labour government and in 1966 Wilson had a meeting with Lord Cromer of the Bank of England and Cromer said to him you have to abandon all your policies we cannot afford it it will create a run on the pound there will be a strike of capital as a result Wilson abandoned all his policies and we didn't know but until he wrote his mem was five years later in other words the Labour government is subject to the blackmail of capitalism and we always explained you can't plan the economy unless you control the economy and you can't control the economy unless you own the economy and that is why we need to have a programme not of patching up capitalism because all the things that Corbyn has suggested I fully agree with on jobs, on taking back industries of the public ownership and so on and so forth of increasing the living wage of trying to solve unemployment but these cannot happen on the basis of a crisis of capitalism we've learnt the lessons of Syrraza in Greece where Cyprus came to power on a programme of anti-austerity and yet within a matter of months he's now back in power carrying out austerity and this is not because of the personality of Cyprus who I'm sure is against austerity but he's faced with a blackmail of big business he's faced with the laws and contradictions of capitalism and under those circumstances he's doing the dirty work of capitalism which will see him discredited so if we want a Labour Government which we do we want a left Labour Government that's the only solution for working people but it's going to be based on a socialist programme which is not a secondary issue because of the crisis of capitalism it's the only basis on which we can guarantee the reforms guarantee the real needs of working people because on a capitalist basis it's only misery on a capitalist basis it's only austerity they've talked about not just one or two years they've talked about permanent stagnation permanent crisis under capitalism now is the time for socialist policies if there was a time now is the time so I think the struggle yes my favour of a broad campaign to defeat the right wing but within that we need to also bring out the policies because we want a successful Labour Government that will confront big business and is true what Matt said the general staff will be there plotting as they did against Wilson and other governments as well and the Labour Government has to mobilise working people to paralyse the reaction and that can only be done on a socialist basis Cymru this is a wonderful time to be in here you have the opportunity to shape history to shape our destiny it's about time we tackle it we seize the opportunity because one socialist victory in one country will change the entire world and that's what it's all about not socialism in one country but a world revolution that will transform the lives of every person on the planet and thereby guarantee us a real future for our future comrades let's fight for it let's seize it let's take it