 Good day, my lovely listeners. You are listening to The Forty Autie Podcast. Tune in every week to explore inspiring stories and insightful information that dive headfirst into the world of autism and mental health. With all those tantalising tongue twisters out of the way, let's get into the show. Hello everybody and welcome back to The Forty Autie Podcast. My name is Thomas Henley from the Asperdiskrove channel and more importantly from The Forty Autie Podcast and today we've got another episode for you lovely people and we are talking about autism and anxiety. Yes, one of the things that I'm sure many of you out there will have some level of experience with. And I've got a very special guest on today. It's Krista from Neurodivergent Rebel. Say hi Krista. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. No worries. How are you doing? Oh, I'm doing wonderful. I'm ready to geek out about autism. Me too. So yeah, you have a quite a large social media presence. You do, you go on a few podcasts, you make a lot of videos and stuff on Instagram. Do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and the kind of things that you do? Yeah, yeah. So I think, you know, we're autistic when we say we're autistic forever, we're born this way, we die this way, but some of us don't know we're autistic until really late in life and I'm one of those people. I didn't find out until I was 29 and that had a really, really big impact on me and what, you know, when, when I was diagnosed, I was lucky because the person who diagnosed me gave me recommendations for books and voices of autistic authors. And so I started in that place and I also, I was lucky because the person who diagnosed me didn't paint this as something wrong with me. She's like, there's nothing wrong with you. You just think a bit, you know, she's like, she framed, I don't remember what her exact words were, but she framed it, you know, as if I, I'm different, I'm not wrong, which, you know, so important just getting on the path because there's kind of two roads you can take when you're diagnosed. You can go down this destructive path where I'm a defective, broken human or I just everyone's horrible. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I went on the path to, okay, I need to now figure out how to adjust my life and respect this new information about myself. But, you know, I, the autistic voices helped me, but then when I went on the internet and have you ever gone, I'm sure you have, gone to the internet and typed autism into Google and see what your search results pop up. I've seen a lot of, a lot of things to do with autism. I've seen some Reddit posts about people's experiences and I've seen a lot of statistics and mental health and stuff. But what's the top result? What are the top results? What are they talking about? It's all medical gloom and doom. You know, it's not autistic voices you're finding unless you really, really dig deeper, you know. Yeah. And I couldn't find more autistic voices. And so, you know, all you find like the DSM and you find the blue puzzle people and you read on their website and it's all this gloom and doom and, you know, the, the medical language, like, you know, the diagnostic manuals, in my opinion, reading that, you know, they, they're even pathologizing things that I feel are my biggest strengths talking about, you know, our interests being problematic. And I'm like, no, that's, yeah, that's like my biggest skill. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt sometimes there. I will admit, like, I can't let things go. I cannot let things go and I will make myself a mental mess because of it sometimes. But that's also why I solve problems and I'm a good problem solver because I can't let it go. And so I saw that duality, but the stuff that was easy to find on the internet was all talking about the bad and the problems. And I couldn't find anything that reflected more what I felt was my own experience because, yeah, I do know there are weaknesses out there, but I didn't need a flashlight shown on my weaknesses. I know what, you know, we know what our fault faults are and where we're we're lacking, especially when I was diagnosed, I needed reminders of, you know, that life isn't that bad and it's going to be okay because I wasn't in that happy place at first. I was actually a bit angry and I even went through all the stages of grief, I'd say, as I, you know, the information stuck in like I was in a denial phase. And I, you know, I was mad for a while because I was like, how could they miss it? Looking back, it's so obvious because, you know, I have baby videos and all kinds of things and I took all that in with me when I was diagnosed. I was luckily a very well documented child and I have living relatives that were close to me that were willing to be interviewed. So, you know, that that made it easy, but not everybody has even that privilege, you know, to have those things needed to verify all of that information to get an accurate diagnosis. And it was like a wormhole I fell into, you know. And you're, you're sort of like, you started your social media after you were diagnosed or was it more of a transition from something else? No, it was after I was diagnosed. I had so, let's see, where are we now? So we just got into 2020. It's been about, it's been a little over three years now. It was like the fall, my birthdays in March. And it was like in, I think September or yeah, I believe it was in September when I was diagnosed. I don't remember the exact date, but kind of towards the end of the month. And I think I spent maybe a few weeks trying to figure out like, because after I went to the internet, like within a few days, I went to the internet, you know, because I was trying to understand what it meant to me. And then I went to the internet. I was just so disgusted and angry, because I was like, this is lies. This isn't me. I felt like they were, they were lying so much, you know, about everything. I was like, this is not a, you know, it, it, it sparked something in me. And maybe it's because I was in that anger phase of dealing with the diagnosis. I don't know. But like, I put that anger into like, Oh, I need to like, fight this fake information. And so I knew I was going to start a blog. And at first, it wasn't really even going to be about autism. I was just going to talk about things that I thought were helpful to people who were autistic, whether they had a diagnosis or not. Because the thing that also, you know, with me being someone who didn't find out until I was almost 30. It's like, wow, how many other undiscovered autistics are out there? Because my life was so like, it wasn't, it was unnecessarily difficult in areas that I didn't need to be struggling in, because I didn't have the information. And it was like, Oh my gosh, how many others are there out there? And it was like, we need to get the information out there. But if I had only read the medical manual, like, I don't know if I would have, would have been able to move forward. You know, you know, like you were saying about sort of like the initial sort of Google reports. And it's, it always seems to be either for medical things or for parents of autistic children. It never really seems to be highlighted as something to do with like autistic adults and teenagers and personal experiences. It always seems to be quite, quite ironically, quite black and white and medical and oh, we need to fix this and do that and get over this whole autism thing, which obviously is not very helpful to someone looking up, looking up about autism. No, and it's all about children too. And so then me as an adult, it's like, Oh, I'm not looking for that information. Because obviously, you know, I don't resemble, like I can read the stuff about children and go, Oh yeah, I remember myself when I was younger. And I guess it was a little bit more helpful when I was recently diagnosed, because I was reflecting on my life through the new lens of autism I've been handed, you know, and everything in my life like kind of stories kind of got rewritten once I had the new information, you know, but it's just, it was all a process. And it was all about, but, you know, I needed information from adults too is the point. And you know, most of it was about kids. Yeah, it seems to be very sort of parent, child heavy when it comes to things, things that like companies do to raise awareness of autism. It seems to be very much like in that sort of line, not much deviation. You know, hopefully stuff like this is going to is going to help. And so you've talked a little bit about, you know, the way that you came across your diagnosis and they're setting up the channel. Why have you chosen to be an influencer? Like what drives drives you to do what you do? And what do you hope that you'll achieve? Yeah, well, first, I want to say, I don't know if anyone can like choose to be an influencer. You know, like I don't think you make that choice. I think it's kind of like made for you. Like you go on the internet and you start putting your ideas out there. But unless what you're saying with, you know, happens to really resonate with people, like then it just kind of happens. But it's almost like it has to happen naturally because there are people that are out there and you know have are saying things on the internet and they might have quote say they choose to be an influencer. But if nobody's listening to them, you know, I don't think it's yeah it's and it's like I don't even like that word influencer. Like it sounds almost manipulative in a way because you're like are influencing people. It's kind of a weird word and I've seen I've seen that myself like like there was like something that came out last year or the year before. It was like top autistic influencers influencers of Instagram. And I was like, oh weird. I was really weird to see myself listed as an influencer. One I've seen recently though, someone called me and I liked it better though instead of influencer I was hanging on thinking kind of pulled out of my brain archive. Oh they said thought leader and I was like I like that better than influencer. Doesn't it sound a little bit less? I don't know. I don't really want to be someone who like influences other people. I think of myself more as like a teacher. Like I'm an educator. I don't you know like I feel like it's kind of different but because I use social media as my medium to do that like influencer I guess is maybe the technical word but I don't like it. I just don't like it. I don't know. Maybe it's like my I'm like overly particular language thing but I don't know. It's just a weird thing. What drives you to be a thought leader? Oh well just like all the lies. All of those lies. You know it's having been diagnosed and looking around at a lot of people in my life and people I care about. There's obviously the genetic component. You can see it in families and relatives and I am lucky because I've had a lot of mentors especially with work and business over the years but there's so much misinformation out there and it's like I want I feel like I can't stop until people don't like the first answer when you at like you tell say hi I'm autistic like people don't answer like oh are you sure or no you're not or you can't be. Everyone's on a spectrum. Yeah those things like I want all of that to go away because it's like really hard to try and come out to someone like and you're kind of like ready to it's like okay I'm someone who's come out in more ways than one you know as someone who considers myself part of the LGBTQIA community. So I've come out in you know two ways you're autistic and then you know this this other way and they're very similar like you are pouring your heart and soul out like you're coming to admit something very personal right to someone and can you imagine you know someone says hey you know I want to I want to share something really personal with you I'm gay and then they say no you're not I don't believe you. Everyone's a little everyone's a little gay yeah like we wouldn't say that right now but now that sounds really ignorant. Yeah and so it's like someday like pushes it down pushes the meaning behind of it yeah reduces it down yeah I get it. It's really dismissive and so it's like I'd love for that to go away but then I love for also but that won't go away unless people kind of have a better understanding of what autism is and right now because what's been pedaled in the media and what's you know what's what everyone thinks people don't understand that every single autistic person is very very very different and all of our experiences are very different and we're all shapes and sizes and colors and ages when adults we're kids you know we're everywhere you know we're you know grandparents and parents and we're doctors and you know we're we work some of us so with some of us don't you know we're everywhere um but people don't understand like that just like not autistic people there's a wide variety you know of different looking and acting autistic people they they just I want to fix it. Yeah you want to fix that. I want to fix it. And that's your hope your hope for all my obsession. I can't stop until I fix it. Yeah it's it's it's it's it's it's a it's a love it's a love and hate because it's like ideally I'd love to work myself out of a job in that way you know because wouldn't it be great if you just didn't have to talk about this anymore? I mean I love doing this but like honestly like if we didn't have to have these conversations everyone's lives would be so much easier. Yeah if it was more integrated than it people people had a better understanding of it it's at a young age and yeah I completely agree with you. More teachers teachers. More inspirational people like make yourself of course. Okay cool right so today we're going to be talking a little bit about anxiety aren't we? Ah no fun. What are your experiences with anxiety your lows the effects on your life or relationships the support that you have or haven't been given? Yeah so much like autism I have had anxiety play but unlike autism anxiety plagues me. Autism is just an explanation but anxiety has been a plaguing force in my life and I didn't know until I was diagnosed autistic because I also received an anxiety diagnosis with that and even when I got that diagnosis like I was still in denial like no I don't have anxiety even though it's like yeah my heart is palpitating and I am sweating in my hands and my armpits and I'm nauseous in my stomach and my head is racing and I can't slow down and you know I have all the physical symptoms but in my brain I was just so used to that being my normal operating level at all times that I just had become habituated to it and I didn't have the vocabulary for like anything mental health or anxiety because nobody talks about that stuff here in Texas like and nobody talked about that when I was growing up like I didn't understand like you know like I would have panic attacks and I you know you think you don't know what that is like you think you're gonna die when you're having a panic attack and you have no idea what it is so like I didn't know what any of that was and a lot of that had been happening to me regularly throughout my entire life and it was like you know this big bad monster and so like I started to finally like okay well let me learn more about anxiety and you know once I really started to understand what it was and like the more like the the brain that's what I really started geeking out on brain stuff is when I started to learn more about anxiety because I wanted to defeat the anxiety monsters like a task you know I'm like okay it's a challenge to say anxiety is something I have got to defeat and at first it was like I'm fighting this anxiety um but then it became you know like you kind of have to realize like now I've just come along circle I realize it's kind of a part of me you know like it's probably always going to be there like like a like a friend I just kind of have to get used to um annoying friend that calls it you to scum for like hi you're back to sit on my couch and bother me get out of here leave me alone you know um but little demon yeah demon is back but it's like now it's like oh hey okay how long are you gonna be here now you know but I mean there's it's there's ups and downs like mental health like it's it's like a roller coaster right you like ebb and flow I you know it's there are things I feel like though you know when there's like been dips in my mental health I can kind of look back and it's never like for me because everyone's different but for me there's never been like there wasn't some kind of trigger trigger that started me on kind of some kind of a spiral you know and usually like when before I was diagnosed autistic you know I was trying to do things that were the most unautistic things possible because I was like I can do anything I put my mind to and I was like just push yeah I just need to push harder and I had destroyed my self-esteem because I had realized I can't do these things and I was like why can't I do this everyone else can do this I feel like it's so simple for everyone else and I had destroyed myself and my self-esteem and I was falling apart and a lot of times that's kind of like something will be a trigger that will kind of like either my my sense of self-worth or my stability feels like it's been taken away and then you know then it kind of goes there from there and it can go downhill and anxiety like when it's benign it's like little things that are more innocent like I have to second guess every single email and I have to read them like 50 times before I send them because like I am afraid there's gonna be a typo and then sometimes I still hit undo and retract the email and reread it one more time just but you know just because it's like that's that's like the little anxiety that's like real little but then it's like on the bad end it's like if I let it go and I start getting more and more anxious I can get the point with like I feel like I want to push everybody away and like I tell myself like I because I hate myself so certainly nobody else could like me so everyone else much hate me too and like you know then I start feeling like I just need to get up and leave and just disappear and it's like this it's like always and then like now because it's like I realized that it had I've done it's happened so many times in my life it's like a pattern it's like I'm getting the point where I realize oh this is that really bad vicious cycle again but I you know and so when I was younger I could fall into it for much longer period of time you know and get stuck there and I may have got stuck in it for years when I was you know in my teens pre-teens and that you know hormonal age and time where I was kind of a moody teenager yeah yeah I was kind of a moody teenager and I had a lot of anger issues back then to talk about explosive meltdowns like stereotypical in that way but you know and that those come from anxiety too it's being overwhelmed and just being completely overwhelmed and that's like the really dark side you know it's it it can be really isolating and and it's like I even slipped into that for a couple months this year I'll admit you know but it's it's you know there was a little bit of a trigger to that as well you know just like there always is but this year like you know I I remember you know it's more fresh because it was you know in the 2019 but you know the thing that stands out is like I was more aware of what was happening to me and then like I feel like I steered myself out of it quicker than I ever had before because I knew exactly what was going on and like I was like okay well none of this is rational this is just anxiety talking and I just can't trust this voice in my head right now unfortunately and it was it was easier than it's ever been and it's like you know when you're when you have that mental health dip it's like one day like you will wake up and you just feel like yourself again for the first time you know since you don't know when and it's like wow this is really great you know and you wonder how much it'll last if it's just going to be one day but then you know you wake up the next day and you still feel okay and like okay you know and you do and you start counting the days and then that you feel normal and then eventually you've lost track and that's where I'm at right now and so I hope you know I continue in that direction because I don't know how many days it's been anymore but I'm feeling better than ever and but I'm cautious because I don't think I don't know that this is ever something that like there's a cure or it'll be cured of the anxiety will go away it's it's you know it's it's here and it might you know it gets better and I get better at mastering it and dealing with it and having compassion for myself and understanding what's happening when when it happens but um yeah it's it's a it's a process I love being able to you know have a little bit more self compassion I think is really important and I didn't have that before I was diagnosed autistic either I needed the diagnosis to be able to really start I think liking myself a bit more and stop being so hard on myself yeah I think um like what you said about just always reminding yourself when you get into those sort of hyper anxious states is is is really important because it's um I think when you are anxious your your brain has a tendency of trying to fix it which which is also part of the reason why you're anxious because you're trying to fix it and then you're like oh no and these wild for loops and you start spiraling because you think about one thing but then oh no I've got to do this and now but no I've got to do this and it sort of goes around in the circle and um it makes it makes me stressed out just speaking about it like this yeah you think about it like oh I remember exactly how I felt grateful though when you have those like I I'm so much more grateful for these good days yeah me too and I think um just before because we were supposed to do the podcast um I think a few like a couple of days ago and um there was some some issue with the wi-fi and I couldn't seem to get it working and I was I was literally just sat at my computer my my girlfriend came in from after work and I was just sat at my computer just constantly refreshing and turning the wi-fi box on and off and uh it was it's hard because it was like my brain I was trying to fix it and I couldn't and it started spiraling of thinking oh no no one's ever gonna want to talk to me again that's why I'm missing people around and uh it's but then as soon as I come out of it it feels ridiculous uh-huh yeah and it's more embarrassing when other people see it like I know like even with like a meltdown or anything like when I'm like I I want to go be in private I go high I know I always know where the bathrooms are you know I always know where there's the bathrooms I can go hide in the bathroom stall or if I need a moment alone it's terrible I was literally talking I was literally talking about um knowing where the bathrooms were in my in my previous episode it's an anxiety thing I think but it might not be a sensory being thing to like no you can lock yourself in it's a nice little tight area you can just as long as there's no hand dryers no of course yeah definitely big stipulation not a fan of the old hand dryers so yeah uh obviously you know anxiety is a very tough thing to handle with um has it had any like effects on your like relationships and things in your life like to do work or anything like that and is there any sort of support that's being put in place because of getting the diagnosis well the insurance in America our system is really interesting like we have to buy insurance and that's a few hundred dollars a month then we have to pay for it they'll charge us a fine on our taxes and the insurance you know isn't even that great a lot of times and they don't want to pay for anything with mental health services and so it's like you have a deductible and then the mental health services have their own separate deductible and it's like unless you've paid a bunch of thousands of dollars out of pocket you don't reach that deductible in a year and so it's like well what's the point so it's like I haven't gone like to go see anything because my insurance is like well we don't want to cover mental health which is so annoying because mental health is just as important as physical health everybody has mental health you know it's and everyone could potentially have a mental health issue where they need some help with their mental health so our system is a bit broken over here but you know what I've really you know been doing and I am a big self-help nerd you know I and I'm a very self-driven kind of person that's why you know I don't spend all my time out socializing I spend my time alone in the computer looking up things on the internet and researching how to do things and trying to figure out how to do things you know without having to ask because you know I always never like to ask questions growing up I just was like oh well if I can figure it out on my own I don't have to ask you know so that I went that route with mental health and I got like a bunch of books and I was like subscribing to podcasts and I was watching youtube videos and I like really what was really and I was already really into like yoga and meditation already because well you know what's interesting about that is you know I said earlier I didn't have vocabulary for mental health things but I knew something was wrong not autism anxiety you know I knew I knew something was wrong even before I had any kind of diagnosis it was like there was something I was trying to soothe with the yoga and the buddhism and the meditation I was trying to tame my mind you know quote the buddhism tame your monkey mind you know I was like monkey mind that is so accurate in my case you know okay I got this monkey mind and they're gonna help me tame it and so I was really into that and so that was really helpful too but so I was just really like okay I'm responsible for getting this anxiety under control and I'm gonna I'm gonna get it you know and so I took a really it became like one of my interests is like okay how do I fix the anxiety how do I deal with that because that's really what what haunts me yeah anxiety is pretty much the worst thing in my life it's kind of it makes everything um really difficult and it makes everything negative especially in the peaks especially in the peaks um but just in general like even small things like taking a step outside or getting out of bed makes everything really difficult and I've gone through periods of time where my anxiety levels have been so high that I've just been inside for like weeks and I have you know it's it's affecting my ability to study and my ability to work and talk to people which is obviously quite needed yeah but um yeah it's it for me it's been it has been one of the hardest things for me to deal with and then also you know you have that co-morbidity with depression and stuff that sort of sneaks itself in there when you experience anxiety for such a long time it's it's not a great thing and um I do like that you start making the distinction between autism and anxiety because I feel like a lot a lot of people who don't really understand autism automatically assume that because you're autistic you are you know you're not good you're healthy um but it's it's really the anxiety and the depression and the difficulties socializing with people that you they don't understand you that's the problem I think in my mind yeah you know I think another one of our problems just as an autistic population is that in general like if you look at the way the outside world perceives autism in the way the the diagnostic criteria is written it's all based on autistic people who are in extreme distress yeah so I am pretty sure that the medical community and the general public and you know just most of humanity has no idea what an autistic person with good mental health looks like and I bet autistic people with good mental health you know might be a rarity and that's another thing I would love for us to be able to correct and you know see if we can look into because I hate that you know I hear stories of people saying oh well they told me I'm just anxious because I'm autistic or oh well I just have these problems because I'm autistic and so they're mental health like they're trying to get help for mental health but nobody will help them with those issues because they're like oh you're autistic you're just you know depressed or you're just anxious it's like what you're completely dismissing these people's needs like you wouldn't do that with another patient it's um it is a very difficult scenario and I think that as you said yeah the all of like the diagnosis and all the medical things only really um go forward because there is a problem whereas like if there is a healthy autistic person that's so happy with you know maybe you're at school being on a little bit more on their own very good mental health like doing the things that they like go about life feeling great they don't get picked up because there's no problem yeah they might not get a diagnosis because also I think it's almost written in I know it isn't the American diagnosis that book I think it'll probably be in that the one that you use over there too that we have to be actually like struggling in these areas and like maybe you might have struggled with those things at once but maybe you were always accommodated so you won't know you're struggling until you take those accommodations away and that's another thing you know like you know if I'm accommodated I can really really accelerate and do really well but if I'm not accommodated I can barely handle remedial work yeah and I struggle with anything to do of executive functioning I'm very good at like single task and doing something really well as soon as there's like more than three things I have to do my brain just like yeah no I can I beg people please don't give me any any verbal instructions like you're asking me these questions and some of them have more than one part to them and I'm probably only answering the first part of your question it's getting a lot of it because I can't remember all of that at once like I get a lot done because I know I can't trust my executive functioning and so it's like I have this ridiculous calendar and google calendar and task list and scheduler and it's like I'm just going line by line and doing what it tells me to do next and if I get off schedule I just kind of shift it all down and like okay I'm working later now or this has to be done tomorrow but it's like I am following that and like doing what it tells me to do wins that I can stay on task because if I didn't have that I would just be lost nothing would get done I feel exactly the same I sometimes try to deviate a little bit from it oh doesn't it ruin your life it definitely does have a marked effect on my anxiety in particular I am sort of one of those people that likes quite a bit of freedom so I used to have a lot of I used to plan out my relaxation time when I was younger I do that or I don't relax though I have to yeah but I think for me there's like a happy medium between not feeling constricted by myself and being able to actually function yeah yeah I think there's like a thin line that everyone has to try to navigate to well you know I think it helps me with my anxiety that I have to have everything like so scheduled because it's because I have so many things that absolutely have to get done like if I didn't have so many things that had that had to get done like I remember like just loving like as a kid like I used to crave like I don't want to have to look at a watch today like I would just crave time I would not have to look at a watch or know what time it was and so like on weekends like I kind of have that rule like I don't work I don't get on my computer I'm not you know so it's like that's just the Monday through Friday like there's some balance in there and so on the weekends it's like no working you know it's I'm supposed to stay off social media and stuff but that's harder it definitely is moderation so yeah we sort of talked a little bit about you know some of the main reasons why autistic individuals may struggle with anxiety because I know I know there is a very high percentage of people on the autism spectrum with anxiety and whether that is skewed a little bit because of you know picking only picking people up when they're struggling I don't know but we do you know there's there's two sort of aspects to that there's one one which is the social aspects and one which is the genetic aspects yeah I did my degree at Manchester University and in biomedical sciences and I did my dissertation on autism and mental health and there is there is a very limited amount of research on that stuff but from what I gather that there seems to be some genetic tendencies towards anxiety so like tendency towards staying staying within fault leaps I know that our fault persists for like a lot longer than an average you know not neurotypical person but there are a lot of like there are a lot of like genetic things but I'm still trying to figure out whether it's you know what kind of like distribution is is it like yeah what do you think some of the like the social influences are like what why do you think we struggle so much yeah well you know I'm gonna preface this and say you know I can't speak for everyone so just based on you know my my personal experience you know like I've said I think yeah of course yeah you know my my anxiety for me if often flares up if I'm not being true to myself you know if I'm masking a lot pretending to do things like pretending to go enjoy things I don't like to do trying to conform to like what society's definition of success looks like you know worrying too much about other people's expectations like that's really really toxic for me and you know like what let luckily you know I guess the toxic behavior led me to my diagnosis and you know I feel like I almost I probably would have killed myself on this like ridiculous quote self-improvement because I think self-improvement can be really dangerous if you know because you could yeah or just doing it the wrong way like if you don't go about self-improvement with self- compassion you know when which is how I started myself improvement like it's being really just hard on myself and really tough on myself and I was using non-autistic standards and so I stopped holding myself to non-autistic standards when I was diagnosed but society often still tries to hold me and other autistic people to their sus their standards and they expect so society kind of is doing you know something to autistic people that I think that's very hurtful and you know that's hard on the self-esteem and you know when my self-esteem dips you know my mental health dips like I said earlier and you know if I feel like I'm not good enough you know for what I you know I kind of begin to like fall apart you know and many autistic people you know we're told we're flawed we're broken people sometimes from a young age even without the autism diagnosis because it's like there's other names there's like freak and weirdo and twitchy and you know all there were all these names do you think like the sort of early childhood bullying is quite a large part of anxiety as well because I know like the stats on bullying are way higher yeah average yeah you know what I think the bullies that's what I'm saying like even without the autism diagnosis I think the bullies the bullies know they know different when they see it so you know when I asked one teacher to make the bullies like stop and she responded to me that the other kids would leave me alone if I would just act normal you know and I was acting normal I didn't have any idea what she was talking about but the message was that I was some kind of you know freak and that or that and that came across really loud and clear to me you know that's quite that's quite personal yeah and I the bullies didn't leave me alone until I was you know probably maybe a preteen and I started to realize like I could put a mask on and be someone else and people would leave me alone and I could blend in and sometimes that was even like okay like I would be a bully sometimes because that's what the other kids were doing and that's what would you know like I it was like well if I'm a bully they'll leave me alone because I'm too tough to mess with and that's terrible and those are like those are things I really regret you know to this day because I didn't always know how to deal with you know things in a positive way because there wasn't really anyone trying to help me and the teacher's response when I asked for help was like well just be normal you know and I didn't understand even what she meant by that you know so it's like okay well apparently it's okay to be a bully because the teachers like encourage this behavior you know so it says really really bad messaging and so you got to realize too and like I remember too and I know this and we're told this but as kids we don't believe it you know do you ever were you ever told as a kid that a bully is you know oh you should feel sorry for your bullies because you know they're they're people who are hurt and they're they're people who are hurt you know have gone through things and that's why they're bullies and that's why they lash out and yeah I know that now but as a kid what I feel sorry for the bully they're going to beat me up right yeah I don't know school environments are just mainstream schools in particular are very difficult I was um I was diagnosed when I was about 10 okay so it was quite early on just just coming into secondary school which I think for you is I'm just trying to think of the American conversion it might be middle school maybe middle school then or it's like at the end of elementary school it's getting up there yeah I knew that I was sort of different when I went into these environments but I know there are a few sort of not fixed differences but a few sort of um if you you know look at the the stats on things which I know is not always reliable but girls tend to have a lot easier of a time like masking and all of that like social mimicry and usually are a little bit less detectable than guys would you would you agree with that well I say you have to have a disclaimer with that you can't because I don't think that girls are naturally born in any way that makes them easier to blend in I just think society has really particular expectations for girls so much so like nobody will keep you in check as a little girl more than the other little girls little girls are mean and I was terrified of little girls when I was a little girl I was so terrified of the other little girls I didn't want to be a little girl when I was a little girl like I really was like no I am supposed to be a boy this is not okay you know those girls are terrible like I did not understand like girl world or girl anything you know for a very very long time and even now like I have a few female friends but a lot of my friends they like tend to be like guys like the guys are I was like oh she's one of the guys and it's like yeah yeah that's really that's really strange because um I'm so I was sort of the opposite yeah I always I thought like for a long time that I should be a girl because I really didn't understand the whole I didn't understand like the way that guys worked and I just thought that girls were a lot more sort of emotionally involved and cared a lot more maybe it was because of like the the tone of the voice so I don't know what it was but yeah I was sort of like the opposite with opposite to you I suppose but how does society say boys are supposed to be at least over here like guys are supposed to be tough and macho and all of these things not talk about emotions yeah emotionless whether or not they are yeah but yeah like I didn't I didn't mask I didn't really start masking until it was never sort of like an active process I never really did it I'm more or less just um went internally into myself the way that I coached with anxiety at school um was I I developed some delusion of grandeur which is it's very weird and it's very embarrassing to talk about very much so but because I felt so different to everybody else I sort of instead of trying to integrate myself I separated myself off by like saying kind of different species or or that kind of thing and yeah I think like everyone deals with it differently yeah I think like that was just because the anxiety was too much and being different was too much and I couldn't I couldn't act socially for the life of me in it well I could act socially but not in the way that other kids can and kids are harsh if you don't fit in yeah I don't think you're alone though and thinking you might be some unhuman creature though like you know because like I when I was little there was this like there's a book series and there's a silly little cartoon movie too and I I don't know if you've heard of it but it was called benicula and it was like a little vampire bunny rabbit and he didn't eat people he ate the juice out of vegetables it was so cute but I was convinced because the little bunny rabbit you know with the light since I have a lighting sensitivity I was like oh I must be part vampire or something because the light bothers me and so I was like probably like five or six and I was like I need to sleep in a cardboard box I need to sleep in a cardboard box because it's my coffin it's my coffin so I mean you make it yourself no that was my that was my delusion for about four or five years see see you're not alone that's crazy I've heard all their autistic people say like they felt like they were aliens that were left here yeah well it's it's it's hard isn't it because if nobody gives you a reason or you don't have anyone to look up to and however I have as a role model then you sort of try to figure out stuff yourself you have to rationalize as a kid yeah you can't rationalize that well when you're like an elementary school child unfortunately that's crazy that's crazy no way all right well you've just let you've literally blown my mind I honestly feel a lot better about oh yeah embarrassing story now you want to hear one of my embarrassing stories go for worse you could feel a lot better I had an imaginary friend dog and it was Astro from the Jetsons and he would help me flush things down the toilet in my grandparents house oh so bad and we would like but you know I loved like just putting things in and washing it swirl and swirl I don't know how old I was that I was really young with that because I think they even let me get away with it so I was pretty young I must have been maybe in preschool or something oh well honestly you have looks like my mind is blown okay right what can what can autistic individuals do to alleviate anxiety that's the yeah so it's you know again I was gonna say it's different for everyone but we already know this is different for everyone because I said for me I make a point to schedule my downtime and so that alleviates my anxiety but that you know might not be for everyone but that helps because I and I scheduled that time where I'm gonna engage specifically in relaxing activities that help me slow down my mind you know because I in case you haven't noticed I'm a million miles a minute kind of a person and I have to work really hard at slowing down I'm always constantly kind of putting effort into like slowing myself self down and so like activities like walking hiking swimming you know yoga coloring all that mindfulness and meditation stuff that I like hanging out with the dogs you know a dog in your lap heading a dog it's so nice you know or or you know engaging in one of my interests if it's a relaxing interest because there can be interests that amp you up you know and so that that wouldn't be appropriate my amping up interest was like philosophy and physics and reality and all of that like I was really interested in that stuff but it brought me a lot of terror yeah yeah yeah like yeah but that exactly and so I'm also really mindful too of the particular types of input I allow you know into my new my sphere of influence like news what podcasts I listen to like I don't watch the news hardly ever I go to the news website and I look at the weather you know I'm mindful of the radio I listen to I'm really extremely mindful of my social media news feed and like what's what's on my social media feed because you know all of that like matters and like what you're putting into your brain kind of sets the tone like even the music you listen to like and so like I know like oh I need more of these things that kind of counteract the the desire that my brain has to be worried too much about the future all the time because my brain is always trying to be in the future you know and that's like and that's the thing that's like this duality that I see so much since my autism diagnosis how like yes all of those things that are in that book are written down as a as a bad thing you know in the diagnostic manual but there's two sides to every coin so it's like without that I wouldn't have this and so with like the anxiety it's like yeah it's really plaguing to constantly be worried about the future all the time and be like the next step and the next step and the next step and the next step but that I think runs parallel to like the problem solving ability you know my brain is just wired to be looking for problems and that's like it can be it can literally be madness you know I understand but it's also a gift equally it's a yeah it's a gift and it's a terror it really is yeah it's tricky yeah I'm still trying to find find a good happy medium clean that as well how should I be about life I don't know yeah what's reasonable you know what's what's um enough relaxation that's gonna make sure that I enjoy something mm-hmm sadly it's always about like happy mediums and it's never set in stone what you should do um I think there are there are certain things that you can do that help anxiety in general so I think for autistic people it's it's really important to develop like a framework for how you view things so I talked to someone before about stoicism do you know any do you know about stoicism a little bit not not an expert it's kind of yeah it's kind of like you deal with things that you can deal with and you try and move past things that you can't control and I think everyone everyone I think people on the spectrum really benefit from having sort of a default way of yeah being something concrete and black and white and to a degree like not not not to dictate everything in your life but something guidance well that's why I like Buddhism I love yeah I love Buddhism as well it was great it was like lists checklists rules structure ah system it's a system love it so it's a clean cut you know I think um those sort of ways of viewing things and ways of defaulting to are important and then you also got like the aspects of making sure that you understand what sensory things you have going on you know what's really important that I didn't even mention and I feel negligent if I don't throw it in there learning about what like anxiety like the physiology like the body reactions the chemistry that what is happening in your brain and like the logic behind what's going on when anxiety happens to understand that process because I think that was like I had that was the first step so that was the precursor to anything else I mentioned it's like you have to actually understand what's happening in your body when you're having an anxiety attack or like why you like you need to understand what anxiety is what triggers it and like why it exists so that you can sit with it and recognize it when it's happening and start to get to the point where you can like oh this is anxiety and now I'm going to recognize it and you got to recognize it sooner and sooner so that you've recognized it before it gets the best of you and you're already out of control yeah and I feel like there is something that I've been thinking about for a long time and I feel like you know it's not like something concrete but I feel like we do have a hard time recognizing emotions up to a point it's kind of like well for me yeah for me it's like my I have like a fresh hold of intensity of emotion before I recognize that something's happening and it became a point where I was trying to figure out what different emotions felt like and one of those things that I started on first was anxiety because that was like the main sort of all consuming emotion that I was feeling on a daily basis and I found a lot of use in feelings in my body so like muscle tension my breathing rate how fast fast I feel and all of those kind of things like noticing it as well is important and also noticing as you said being mindful and noticing when things are helping as well yeah yeah having having awareness of it is really important I think that the main thing for me not the main thing but one of the important things for me was exercise I know it's sort of like a blanket anxiety sort of oh you should you know doctors you go to doctor I've got anxiety I feel like I'm really anxious I'll do some exercise I feel like it's a bit of a like a blanket thing but I fidget so much in bed and I can't sleep and I get sometimes get panic attacks in the evening and other than medication the only real way that I can relax after a day is exercising like I feel like there's so much pent up energy in my body all the time and I know that it can be different for people as well but for me like exercise is really important yeah I think like I used to have more like I work like physical jobs like when I started out and was like in fast food management and things when I was younger and like I know like when I had physical jobs that weren't like needed my brain power that as much and I was like moving and doing things and it was a lot of like autopilot almost like those types of jobs like I actually had a lot more even tolerance for the sensory environment because I was moving and it's like with the jobs like where I have a desk job all day like my sensory tolerance with I need to be focused is much lower and it's like my brain gets tired before my body does and so then it's like if I don't somehow like regulate that piece that you know was missing you know getting that physical body energy out it's like I'm not gonna go to sleep it's gonna it's just bad yeah yeah like that what what you just said resonated very much so with my first my first time at a mainstream school so I do like special needs teaching stuff and yeah it's it's I think I'm sort of sitting on my own inside sometimes can be more taxing because even if I'm just like going to a coffee shop or a library or going into town and sitting down somewhere I still feel like I'm losing energy from my brain unless I'm just completely sensory isolated if that's a that's a term like it does seem to just help it's important definitely right so my my iPads turned off and I'm trying to find the question again that is like my eternal problem when I'm like doing something like my notes go to sleep I'm like no my notes executive functioning notes are necessary like I there's a secret to why I look so organized okay so um alleviating your own anxiety there's a lot of avenues for it of course but is there anything that others can do to help to help with anxiety and autistic people that they know or just people in general yeah oh I think the most important thing you know would be to ask the autistic person what they need you know if possible and you know offer maybe to turn down the lights or make the room quieter because you know with with me anytime you know being a sensory being you know I just have a sensory being so anytime my brain is tired like or overwhelmed or not an optimal peak performance is when my sensory stuff is more aggravating and things that wouldn't necessarily normally bother me will now all of a sudden be a bothersome and so it's like oh my gosh it just got really bright in here you know all of that so it's like you know make it a more sensory friendly environment because that can definitely make anxiety worse it's like I know like I've had anxiety about sensory processing because I'm like I don't I'm anxious that I'm gonna have sensory overload because it's so unpleasant you know so it's like that can that can make things worse and then the other thing is like oh gosh please don't tell people to calm down like let them know you're there and you want to help maybe just you know sit quietly hold space for them and just realize that anxiety can be and usually is very overwhelming and the person may need some time to like calm down before they can actually even respond to you so like don't take it personally or like sit there and just be like what's wrong what's wrong what's wrong that's so stressful I need to fix you I need to fix you how can I help yeah yeah no you can't just just hold space for me okay just like you know and it's like I'm embarrassed but I will admit like you know when you're really anxious like that's when you say the things you regret to your loved ones right we're talking about you know how it impacts our relationship and it's like that's when I'm gonna lash out at someone is when I'm feeling overwhelmed and I can't take anymore and then I say something that I mean that's completely out of character because like normally I would have the social filter to to say do not say this to someone that's not okay but all of that's gone because there is now no brain capacity left because I am now overwhelmed using up all of your energy and yeah so like don't take it personally if they're short with you or maybe they sound kind of blunt or they're speaking in a harsh way it's like there there's no there probably is no mental capacity left for any social filters if someone's really overwhelmed I don't have them no more I completely agree I think like also you know sometimes um and the idea of like a meltdown is um people expect you to go crazy and some people some people do get sort of very hyper-emotional and scatterbrained and anxious and all of that but some people don't do that some people just retreat within themselves and can't talk and verbalize things and they're very blunt and direct with anything that they say especially I found especially in relationships that can be a problem because if if you feel very overwhelmed by a conversation or anything like that then sometimes you can't do anything but your brain just shuts down and you can't formulate thoughts and that can be very hard and that can sometimes be a consequence of anxiety and all of that I think yeah just having awareness of and asking about it that's less that's like the best thing that you can do for someone just say what can I do to help in those situations mm-hmm yeah they ask about it that's the main thing just get an idea what happens in their brain in those instances try and have a bit of empathy towards it ask what you can do to help after not at the time yeah oh they might answer you but don't keep asking like you can ask maybe once but if they don't answer you like let it go you know meltdowns are embarrassing you know like I will admit like I even like eat all of the spectrum of different kinds of like from a shutdown to like a full brown meltdown where you like punching yourself like I I've done all of those things within the past couple years depending on the situation like a lot of it is really situational and like those really bad meltdowns don't usually come from nowhere usually there is something like very very very emotionally upset for me anyway there's usually a very intense emotional trigger for me or something that feels like a big emotional trigger for me for it to be that bad or you know like maybe like just I have been under this ridiculous ridiculous ridiculous unrealistic amount of pressure and then finally it's like I can't take anymore and then it explodes and and so like those things that really that that can fluctuate but you know that's not common that's not my everyday reaction and you know it's like usually that's why I say you know I I know where I can run and cry in the bathroom because it's like hysterical crying where I can't control myself and I can't talk and I can't do anything but cry and it's like I just need to go hide because I don't want people asking me why I can't talk and why I'm just crying and you know knock yourself esteem so much as well like after you just go into this slump where all your energy is extended feel terrible and you feel like everyone hates you and that you're putting people out and it's um I yeah a sort of money so like realize that every every I'm saying every time most times when I have a meltdown there is like a slump less anxious a bit more relaxed but I feel terrible and I feel like I'm I feel I feel like I'm not who I am it sort of takes a bit away from myself it makes me feel really bad about myself yeah yeah like oh gosh I'm the monster yeah you could you could the best thing you can do I believe ask ask autistic people so let's let's go a little very quickly over this next point what are the big problems with well maybe what are the problems with society of over where you live that make it difficult to be autistic and not have these anxiety problems yeah so I mean I think as a whole society doesn't talk enough about mental health and it might be a bit better in the UK is my impression but in America you know people's attitudes towards anxiety and mental health issues are often only the weak people have them that is kind of the mindset unfortunately and we know that's a lie but you know I think you have to be very strong actually even to live with anxiety because it is it tests you every day it makes you strong because you're like ah you you have to deal with this thing you know you have to and you keep going about your day anyway you know I think it takes strength to do that you know there's this monster in my head constantly telling you that everything I do isn't good enough you know it tells me I'm messing everything up it's always there you know giving me these words of doubt keeping me company you know my mind right there and it's like I know I can't trust those doubts um and it's hard because like I can't trust myself so it's like I have to make peace with those thoughts and or just ignore them because I know their lies and just get on with my life and the anxiety is still there but you know it doesn't control me but you know autistic people you know we're constantly told we're not good enough um and you know we're we're not broken non-autistic people and we don't need to act less autistic you know but there that stigma that's out there where it tells us otherwise really does eat away at people's self-esteem and their self-worth and you know children are growing up in that narrative and it's really really crushing um and I think that's kind of the the summary of the entire mental health crisis we've got as autistic people just just from the comments that I get on my youtube channel and stuff there seems to be just so many people out there who just struggle like they just don't receive any help um I think one of one of the main barriers for um people in the UK is that we do have a pretty pretty good sort of um special needs sector so there is some support there it's not perfect and it could do with some improving but post like 16 there is zip like maybe a little bit of help with exams at university um maybe some sort of GP appointments because you know like it's we we have the NHS so we get self not free yeah but it's taxed health care guaranteed yeah but there is no that there's some there's you know sort of mental health systems and services that help people like sometimes maybe they don't do a good job but um for a lot of people it can sort of help a little bit but when it comes to autistic people there is nothing out there at all that can I mean there is stuff out yeah it's all the way end of the end of the country it's private and you know because most things are privatized you know people usually go through the NHS it's very expensive and there is not a lot of a mental health professionals that are also sort of specialized in autism and there's just nothing like you can do post 16 to to do with it other than doing it all yourself and I think like like that's a big that's a big like contributor to it um so there needs to be something done about that but until people realize that being diagnosed with autism doesn't immediately put you in the I'm ill category nothing's gonna change because people don't see the autism with mental health they see autism that's a problem just not yeah they don't want to hear about our mental health issues they're just like oh no your autistic sorry yeah like what excuse me I could probably get get more help if I go and just say I need help with anxiety and not tell them I'm autistic and then maybe they'd help you know yeah yeah and yeah they would they would they do help to some extent and but you know we work differently and we don't take to counseling the same way don't take to CBT the same way met a lot of autistic people that I know in the UK just give up on it because it doesn't work I had it for five or six years it did did least squat for me nothing but yeah I think like that's one of the main reasons in the UK but yeah it is interesting to sort of compare the UK and the US because I know our cultures are very similar but there's a lot of ways that we are different as well and obviously there's a lot there's different sort of ways of viewing it as well I mean it's a you it's a big place as well so it differs depending on your state and I'm all right yeah yeah it's I think globally I feel like we need some new systems it doesn't sound like anybody has the perfect system because I hear problems with our system and problems with you know everybody like nobody's system is like quite perfect no yeah I agree but we can try a car we can try and fix it or try to alleviate some of the difficulties of being being on planet earth and being you know different yeah so cool what are the three things that we've mentioned do you think that are the most important takeaway some of the things that you've mentioned we've gone a lot so I say how about you know I think the most important thing actually is that you know we really do need to talk about these issues autism anxiety mental health all of it you know I wasn't able to live my best best life personally until I had all the information you know I needed to know I was autistic now that I know I live a more autistic lifestyle you know I know I have anxiety and I'm finally doing something about it you know knowledge really is power and we really need to spread knowledge and have more of these open and honest conversations like we're doing here today I think that's so important and then the other thing you know I think that's also extremely important is you know to remember that you know autistic people like we're always going to be autistic you know we get a lot some of us are diagnosed as children but you know when we grow up when we are not less autistic or we're not no longer autistic anymore and you know their you know experience and their presentation may change and evolve over the years and but you know autism isn't something that can be removed from a person because you know essentially you know unlike anxiety which we said it's just our biggest enemy here that we don't like you know a lot of us myself included you know we say you know it's it's a big part of you know who we are and like you know if you remove that it's like it's my interests it's my personality it's my experience of the world I wouldn't be the same human being if I wasn't autistic brilliant that's that's great is there is there any any last one that you want to mention or is oh gosh yeah we've I know I'm trying to I won't see executive functioning I you know I think we're good because I can't remember everything we've talked on medieval we've talked on so many things today it's been a really great chat I think it has been as well but we got one last one and one last one that I try and ask everybody who comes on the podcast what does autism mean to you very open and out and very much interpretable in many ways I think that's a great question though I love I love that you asked that to everyone because you know everyone's gonna have a different answer to it um and so I guess for me I would say autism is something you know it is very personal but you know when I was diagnosed it was as if you know I had my own ugly duckling story I was finding out you know that I was autistic and I was able to start being kinder to myself and I stopped holding myself to impossible non-autistic standards it allowed me to develop more self-compassion which was something I had never had much of before in fact I remember being 18 and distinctly feeling like I hated myself that's a very clear feeling and I don't feel that anymore but you know receiving that diagnosis was like getting a handbook to my life it was as if everyone around me had always had like a secret instruction book for how to act in certain situations they knew things naturally that I really was struggling to grasp even through work and then you know at the age of 29 I was granted my own handbook I found out I was autistic and then everything started to make sense it's important for me I say I am autistic and not I have autism and like because like I was saying earlier it really does influence everything about me and the choices I make my hobbies the things I love and it's the reason I am you know a sensory being who spends most of their time working on projects alone instead of socializing and the reason I experience my emotions in the world around me in an intense way you know I see patterns in things and I struggle to let things go it's who I am I'm not with autism I am autism and with autism like it sounds like an accessory that you can remove and leave behind and it's really just such a big piece that I think that's what I want people to realize the most is it really is like not this extra accessory or a bag I can put down or necklace I can take off or a hat I can wear it's you know it's not my cat's name you know I'm an autistic person brilliant awesome I'm very much like that was a very good answer thanks I like that a lot I might have to like section that out and like take a clip from I ramble I ramble I know yeah whatever awesome so yeah um we've talked about a lot today and I'm feeling like this is going to be the longest podcast but it is definitely one of the most interesting ones I've had so far so thank you so much thank you I'm actually fairly easy to track down if you if you search for neurodivergent rebel on google I do have a website at neurodivergent rebel dot com and there's links to everything there but if you you know search for me on social media I am pretty much I'm on every platform on everywhere I'm on YouTube Facebook Instagram and all of that the one exception is Twitter is actually neuro rebel instead of neurodivergent rebel because it was too long I guess or maybe someone has it I don't know but it wouldn't let me get neurodivergent rebel so I'm just neuro rebel on Twitter but other than that I'm really easy to track down and I will definitely put some all of those links in the description of this YouTube slash Spotify thing everybody listening thank you so much for listening to us talking monologue and exchange ideas about anxiety and autism and and I I'm very willing to you know I want to hear from you let me know what you think tell me some of the ways that anxiety has affected you some of the ways that you view it some of the ways that you've coped of it I want to hear it so let me know you can let me know on my social medias of course at aspergis growth Twitter Facebook Instagram and if you want to appear on the podcast or you want to message me directly you can always reach me at the aspergis at gmail.com email address so uh yeah go check that out Christa it's been awesome talking to thank you so much for coming on the podcast have you enjoyed it oh my gosh thank you so much it's been so fun I always enjoy like these really great thought-provoking conversation it's it's it's been a pleasure it's it's been my honor thank you so much for having me of course anyway people thank you for listening again I don't know I say that a lot but you're awesome and you know if you if you want to catch this podcast anywhere YouTube Spotify as I've said I I never know how to finish these these episodes and I think I always finish these episodes talking about how I don't know how to finish them so I think that's the way that I finish them um it's my own little inner inner working to finishing them see you later peeps bye I really need like a standardized way of doing this you can just script it out one day I will do