 Today, we're going to break down and analyze the behavior of the parents of a little fellow named Sebastian Rogers Craig wants to tell us about the videos we're going to watch. Yeah So Sebastian Rogers is a 15 year old missing teen who had is somewhere in the autism spectrum We'll learn that from the parents as they talk about it. He's last seen on February 26th He left the house with no shoes took a flashlight only when we say left We don't know how or when or with who or if with who so we're going to watch this Video and work through it this investigation. This is now becoming an investigation It was a massive search for several days and we're going to look at the parents first interview on 7 March of 2024 So first just express I can't even imagine as a parent what you two are going through How would you describe the situation right now? How are you coping? Um We're on a constant roller coaster ride of helpless and hopeless and many other Emotions all in one and it's a never-ending roller coaster. It doesn't stop It won't stop until he walks through the door. I wouldn't wish this on anyone Not any I know we're about keeping hope alive. I'm sure that's in there somewhere. Oh, yeah It's always he's gonna walk through that door and this street will be flooded again with Family and relatives all waiting to hug and love him and That boys gonna have more friends that he knows what to do with when he comes home All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so let's first off start by talking about there's so much Information disinformation misinformation out there about this case that what we're gonna have to do is rely on what we can see So what we're not doing is telling you what the facts are any more than we have learned from this channel or that channel in the beginning There are people saying that the father was Left the night before and then there are people who say had been in Memphis for two weeks a step on it So there's a ton of stuff here and what we're gonna do is tell you what we see some of you're gonna be irritated by it That's okay. That's part of it But what I want to start with is saying this guy's a tower crane operator You know what a tower crane is this you climb up a really big ladder and operate a crane You're moving stuff around over people's heads all the time So if he's not as flappable not as shaky Don't bother me because I think okay Here's a guy who does something this kind of high stress for a living that parts one thing But what I am going to do is compare him to him not him to me or him to mark or him to Scott or him to chase We're gonna look at what we see in him and look for deviations In the beginning she's doing an adapter that is awfully close to what I usually refer to as transfer transfer from True crime workshop where a person makes himself emotionally unavailable to you by some kind of movement by too much overwhelming emotion, but she isn't Unaffected she's available. So don't take that out of your mind that just because she's swaying means she's doing something I mean she's comforting self because that release of nervous energy is comforting There's a clear handoff from her to him And if you don't think that's a handoff you're not paying attention to what they're doing That doesn't mean that she said if I cry if I laugh if I do you need to do this It means that he sees that she needs that relief could be scripted don't know But his language in there is awfully wooden and awkward which tells me that this is probably when they They were thinking about what are we gonna say is gonna say it's been an emotional roller coaster because the language seems awkward It doesn't seem accurate or upfront. It's okay because that's what people do There's also a couple of other little bitty pieces of body language and I'll then I'll go to something else I'll let you guys cover the rest But he does kind of that's fair body language when that he's asked the question that he should have considered about I Forget exactly what it oh, yeah when she says there's still hope right and he's like, well, oh, yeah There's hope I should have said that should have thought of that's what I see in that body Which there is however some really interesting body language when they talk about friends And when they talk about a lot of people coming back, he's gonna have more friends and he's had in the past in her Lead into that the stress on that word friends makes me wonder was there some kind of an altercation about his access to people That she feels guilty for she feels something about because that comes up pretty strong in both their body language And in her stressing of the body language or of the word chase. What do you got? Yeah, and to mirror Greg We're here to analyze the behavior only of Sebastian's parents and first and foremost. I want to emphasize that they're There's an outpouring of community support for Sebastian and our focus is solely on understanding the behavioral dynamics of What's going on and how it might contribute to Sebastian's getting back home? So this is not about a signing blame or guilt So we're just doing an opinion here to help in any way that we can So with this rocking back and forth I think it's a self-soothing behavior that people very often exhibit when they're under a lot of stress or They're going through some high level of anxiety It's a way for our body to comfort itself in the absence of external comfort And then there's a smile When she turns to her husband here and this is likely disbelief Not some kind of joy or happiness about the moment This is why we talk about context and when those behaviors occur It's so important and for now. I'm just gonna assume it's baseline until I see more with this rocking and stuff and when She says he's going to walk through that door or no, he says this when he's going to walk through that door There's a lip-persing behavior right there, which is a little unusual. You see this Kind of lip-persing and this is most often a nonverbal sign of disagreement or disapproval and It's sometimes it's like a person's holding back something They don't want to say or they're expressing doubt about what they just said And they're not looking at each other and they're not responding to each other's statements I think this could be a sign that there's no rehearsal But it could also indicate there's something going on between them like some Emotional drama, which I'm sure there is it especially if it Sebastian's missing and they're both innocent and in the videos We've seen like this when we where we do know the outcome. This behavior is more common in people who were Innocent but there could be more to see here and I think this single behavior doesn't spell anything definitive I'm not hearing his name mentioned yet but if I hear minimal mention of a missing person's name, which you've heard us talk about before and There's no other indicators like big aisles of indicators that indicate deception It's just a data point. So I keep that in my back pocket until I see a cluster of behavior Scott, what do you got? Thanks, man. I agree with you I'm seeing a lot of the same things you guys have seen so far But right out of the gate, there's little something with each of them that's that bothered me a little bit Like like we were talking about before doesn't mean they're innocent doesn't mean they're guilty Nothing. I'm just telling you what I see. We're just telling you what we see He knows he shows no emotion toward her whatsoever. It's a flat effect and no grief no concern and he looks really rested and Though she's that rocking. She's doing back and forth. We see this throughout all the videos We're gonna see today what we'll look for during this pay attention. This is a fascinating the way this works You'll see them rock in tandem a few times especially at the beginning of the first one to answer She's rocking. He'll start rocking with her. So he's matching her rocking I'm sure like what you were talking about Chase the the emotional thing between them and she may have just Sealed herself off. She's probably in such a big upheaval of of emotion. She's she's Short with him, you know, he's trying to be cool because she's worried about a kid That's what I would think. That's what I took out of that her her eyes are red. She's not rested. She looks like she should look and That upheaval of motion That we see she's suddenly reliving that horror. I always talked about that on here How we're not seeing that so that's one of the things we're seeing with it with someone who we haven't seen with people who are Who aren't innocent? She's got a new Kleenex Now if you remember we look with the last person we looked at that had a that was that was crying and all that stuff constantly wiping their eyes and and Doing their nose with the same Kleenex and it's just this balled up little ball hers isn't it's new and notice how many times During this of these videos. She doesn't wipe tears and she and then she doesn't wipe her nose She only does it a couple of times because those are the times that she needs it people who are faking this usually Are in the impression. Oh, I should have tears coming out So I'll keep doing this and notice when she uses that that Kleenex here at the first where she just does it on the top of her Nose so that that was interesting as well. Not saying she's innocent not saying she's guilty But I'm these are just things that I'm noticing Anyway, and then she's not looking at him at all then doesn't like him at all But he does look at her as there as they go through so all right mark. What do you got? Yeah, pretty much the same look there's time has passed since they had I guess notified the police and this Interview is happening. Maybe as much as what do you think Greg Blake eight days or something like that? I'm yeah eight days. Yeah about that about that. Okay, so look It's time for them to organize a story together if they wanted to so look they could organize a story Together what they can't organize is the synchronicity of their movement That that choreography would take a lot of rehearsal and it's consistent She rocks back and forth three times. He breathes in and out. There's this waltz timing going on throughout You can't rehearse that stuff. They're absolutely in Synchronous movement that would suggest just as you're saying Scott that there is a shared Experience a shared emotion, you know, if there wasn't anything shared It would be very hard to organize that subtle Synchronous level on one thing one thing I did miss though was that they do look at each other in that one I I per second I thought we're looking at number two They look at each other for about two and a half seconds on this one. So sorry about that. Sorry Jeff I had to make sure I said sure sure They also talk about hope, you know chase to your point of there are there is some something unsaid You know, there's a possibility here of a loss of hope and a sense of hope at the same time having to balance the two things Together hold those two ideas. You've got to remain hopeful at the same time. You may be losing hope So I think they're they talk about hope though There's some some closed lips there from from the male from the father He uses the idea of that boy rather than maybe she does as well We don't we're not often throughout this going to hear Sebastian named often called that boy I would suggest that's more likely cultural than them Trying to distance themselves It's more likely a term of Endearment that's all I got on on that one early days, but looks to me Pretty good from moment one just on the synchronicity that they have together Which is tough to organize that they could have organized a story that so I got on that one Yeah, one thing to add what we're all talking about this and synchronicity You know that is couples get to a certain behavior mark to your point. He knows what to expect He knows that how many times she's going to sniffle how many times she's gonna cry What she's gonna he probably has some of that already in his head from the amount of time They're together and we do it on a subconscious level even at some point and couples are in sync when they're being honest They fall out of sync during those times when we're pretending That's one of the things that bothered me doing this as when we first started this I'd made up my mind I knew I had made up my mind about something in this and I'm just not sure about it at this point But that's one of the things that that Swayed me out of those tape replays So first just to express I can't even imagine as a parent what you two are going through How would you describe the situation right now? How are you coping? We're on a constant roller coaster ride of helpless and hopeless and many other Emotions all in one and it's a never-ending roller coaster. It doesn't stop It won't stop until he walks through the door. I can wish this on anyone I know we're about keeping hope alive. I'm sure that's in there somewhere. Oh, yeah Always He's gonna walk through that door and this street will be flooded again with family and relatives all waiting to hug and love him and That boys gonna have more friends than he knows what to do with when he comes home So So here we are eight days now searching for him Walk us through that Sunday night that he went missing. So walk us through we've got so many people who really want to know, okay How did this happen? So kind of just walk us through that night We were out and about that day we were having a really good weekend We got home Everything was pretty normal. He was playing in his room When I told him to go to bed He did He said good night, mom. I love you Say good night to his puppies Little bit later. I wound up going to bed and when I woke him up for school. We wasn't there So in your mind what that's usually around what time sick when do you normally wake up around six o'clock? So were you instantly thinking something's wrong, or were you like he may just be Already in shower. I took a second I took a second and walked through the house looking for him in case he'd gotten up and was trying to get breakfast or something because he did that sometimes About Three minutes in give or take I was on the phone with my husband and I said can't find him He said what do you mean he can't find him? I said he's not nuts And so at that point is that when you call 9-1-1 or what's going through your mind? She while we were on the phone and I was as like he's on the other side of the bed We the normal places he may be in the house, you know, and he wasn't so I was like, okay Well, hold on a minute and immediately after that we Called the Sheriff's Department and made the report I ran all over the house outside inside I looked in every closet when minutes they were here they responded within minutes and Here we go All right chase. What do you got? There's one line in here that got to me when I was watching it and it's when I woke him up for school He wasn't there Uh reminds me of a sheriff in texas who said it'll kill you big enough to die So So some strange wording But it's an outlier. So let's look into it. This could be habit the way that she speaks and references this action and this could be Indicative of him being present or being there. I'll let you decide if you feel like Jumping to something right away if a lot of people feel good about doing that At this point in the clip and in the videos, I'm not seeing a typical amount of behavior here That would make me suspicious and At the eight-day mark, they're still expressing some signs of hopefulness, which is good to see They're looking at each other more here as I would want to see They're more willing to look away from the interviewer and connect during these critical parts of their recollection and the father stepfather Is detailing going through a search of the house comfortably With added detail that we'd expect to see in innocent people And in a case of somebody who's guilty, I would more expect to see that somebody would not Want to go backward from the 911 call to add more details And if you notice, that's what happens here. They go backwards. So he's comfortable doing this It's a good sign And when a piece of a story comes out that's rehearsed and false the story is it's super Hard to go backward and often you'll see people are more likely to be guilty Feeling this internal pressure to continue down the path of what makes them comfortable And what makes them comfortable is something that they've rehearsed So the father's using comfortable hand gestures that are timed with the speech The mother is using her eyes and head comfortably to illustrate searching the house And uh Earlier we talked about the mother's rocking back and forth and that we need to pay attention to it This part here is where I wanted to look and when there's a critical part of a story coming out That's deceptive. This takes up so much mental energy to be deceptive that the body would stop rocking To focus the mind on the story and she keeps rocking through it And what i'll be looking for from a profiling perspective is when the rocking stops Blink rate gestures facial expressions and movements are all in line with Uh, somebody being truthful and honest One big thing to notice is that there's no focus In either of them on managing perception and exaggerating the sadness and grief Those are the two big things we see in just about I think maybe a hundred percent by these videos Manage perception exaggerate the sadness and the grief. We're not seeing those two big hallmarks mark. What do you got? Yeah, when when I asked him go to bed he did and there's a little bit of a an exhale of of laughter around that So release of tension around that my guess is and i'm speculating here is you've got a male here Reaching teenage More testosterone therefore more obstinate on the spectrum as well. So that can exacerbate that the routines and and um and you know The sense of risk as well doing things that are More risky. Obviously, we know that levels of testosterone as they go up We see less risk in the world will take more risks the more testosterone that we have going around our Our body that's why if you're a male and you which a male will have a propensity on the aggregate to create more testosterone than a female not every day, but most days If you aggregate all males together and that's why you will pay more for your driving insurance Especially if you're anywhere between 15 and 23 Because you see the world as less risky the more testosterone you're creating in your body So just a little behavioral thing there of we've maybe got a a male here that is seeing less risk in the world And so it's interesting to the mother that she asks him to do something And he does it so You know No blame though To the child. He's not a runner. He's a good kid He's not mischievous, you know often in examples where we do see parents involved in some way or holding back information There will be some level of blame placed Around around the kid here. We've got no level of of blame Look, let's just look at the the male here We're not going to see grief in the forehead here because the guy's wearing a cap and he's shaded as well So we're not seeing some of the areas of the body that we would like to see if we're to see grief if grief is there At all, I don't know whether it is or not. We may see it in other parts of the face But we're not going to see it in the forehead here. I don't know why There's a deep exhale. I don't know why he Walked out that door deep exhale there. So there's clearly a pause there before he Uh, why he walked out the door. What's that about? I don't know. I'm not a mind reader But clearly there's a pause for thought about the idea of him walking out the door Is it a pause for thought about about the possibility that he was walked out the door in some way or taken out the door In in some way. I don't know but certainly there's there's a pause There's a moment taken there Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, mark interesting you bring up the whole we can't see his forehead So we can't tell if there's grief, but I do see something interesting in the beginning. I see a grimace Kind of a grimace in a space in a deep swallow We usually associate those with really strong negative emotion usually now it could be Something else, but we just came out of the last video and into this one So it's related to that last question around the kid. So I think it's still there His blink rate is really low I think part of that is his baseline if we watch he does a flutter occasionally, but When he gets to when she starts to bring up so many people I think this is a hot button for him We'll find out later when she does that his blink rate jumps It pulses right through the roof and he goes into internal voices. She's talking and mills his hands Now here's where if people automatically say that means he's lying. Well for us It means something's going on in his head. He's milling his hands. We don't know why we can see it We can't see his hands. We know he's feeling stressed, but There's a missing kid involved mark to your point. We don't know the relationship. We don't know any of that One interesting and odd part of body language to me that does occur She says we had a really good weekend and he's in down to his left in internal thought And disengaged with his eyes and then he raises his head nods. Yes Well, if he's not home, how does he know what that was or is he just supporting her as the question So we'll look for a pattern of that looking for where he's trying to endorse something versus just supporting what she's saying We really can't tell and I agree with you mark when the mother laughs about he did go to bed He's been defiant literally you can tell that and here's an interesting one I have tried to find out whether he was home whether he was away at this time She says I went to bed. I not we I So interesting that means sounds like he wasn't home She would have to be very thoughtful and use use of pronouns if she was going to cover that and then let's see She's if you listen to her cadence slow chase on with you 100 we always talk about these guys managing perception if we go back and look at the the Madeleine soto case that stepfather managing perception the mother managing none here none of it They're just going on about their business And he's using big illustrators when he's telling the details of the story Vare says larger indicators indicate more likely being Being honest and then she uses big illustrators with her face. She's going from outside to inside So those things are good. All those pieces start to look good only a couple of cues chase yours The word pattern shift is weird. I went to work to walk and woke him up and then the one with the endorsing with his head movement or Saying yes, we did have a good week and can't figure out which it is We'll figure out and watch as we go. Scott, what do you got? Yeah, I The I woke him up and he wasn't there. I agree. I think that's that's Cultural, you know, because people talk like that and they I'm from there, you know, not hindersonville But from the the south in this area and spent many years You know in that area know a lot of people in hindersonville. That's the way that's the way they talk And uh, so I wouldn't think that's anything is there's much to that. Maybe I don't know But that's the way I'm looking at it. Well bothers me about this as he said we called 911 And the and and then when the sheriff's department showed up, he said they showed up within minutes and here we go So it's this lateral logic thing where you're presented with some facts And you assume the dad is home during that Like when all that's happening when he couldn't possibly be home If she just found out and called him and then he came, you know, and then when he was in Um, where was he? We found out in georgia. Yeah, but or Memphis, but let's also realize just because this is a thing We deal with all the time if that were in case wendy adelson and that whole thing would not be an issue You don't have to have proximity to have involvement. So yeah, I think yeah, it's fair to still look at him as if right Yeah, yeah, so it still makes me wonder when when I first started this I was on the impression He was at home that night and then went to Memphis that morning So I figure maybe he's the last one to see the kid and I went down this this road of looking at him from an entirely different Angle and couldn't believe how relaxed he was I thought this is a cold dude, man because he's he's so relaxed and so But there are some things if you look at it from that angle, you'll say, you know what? I think this guy might there might be something up here But if he's been in in Memphis two weeks Then they don't they don't hold up to that So it could it could go either way, but anyway back to the lateral logic thing You're given information But there's that one little piece missing you don't get in there and look for that one little piece of information And you accept everything and move on without thinking about it And that's what I had done and I love lateral logic. So I can't believe that got by me But uh, they and this one they don't look at each other or or touch each other either she's leaned back as as a Are leaned forward as a A grieving person usually does that's totally normal. He's leaned back a little bit That's another thing made me think about him some but he's probably, you know, he's he's not as emotionally involved In this as she is because it's not his real son. I know that sounds horrible But there's that there's a a big difference there when you're mad at this This you say you don't get along with this kid's father And I don't know how long these two have been married may not be very long Maybe doesn't have a good relationship with the child, you know, so that could be The reason for that We're not seeing any comparable stress and on him at all You know, he looks fairly relaxed, which makes me think he's so relaxed that he's he's not worried about about thinking I did this. I've got to watch it back to perception management You know, they're not doing any of that at all It's like they don't care because if you didn't do it, you shouldn't care. There's no reason no reason to do that So that's uh That's really interesting. His voice doesn't sound stressed He doesn't show any upheavals of emotion or any emotions at all really Uh as as he goes through this He does look at her a few times throughout the interview, but she never looks at him outside the two times that we'll see him Look at each other when they go through here But neither one says has said the child's name yet Doesn't mean anything some, you know, in this situation may not mean anything But we haven't heard his name yet except from the interviewer One of those tape replays So So here we are eight days now searching for him Walk us through that Sunday night that he went missing So walk us through we've got so many people Who really want to know okay? How did this happen? So kind of just walk us through that night Um, we were out and about that day. We were having a really good weekend. Um We got home Uh everything was pretty normal. He was playing in his room. Um When I told him to go to bed He did He said good night, mom. I love you. Um, so good night to his puppies Um a little bit later. I wound up going to bed and um when I woke him up for school. He wasn't there So in your mind, what that's usually around what time sit when do you normally wake up around six o'clock? So were you instantly thinking something's wrong or were you like he may just be Already in the shower I took a second I took a second and walked through the house looking for him in case he'd gotten up and was trying to get breakfast or something because he did that sometimes um about Three minutes in give or take I was on the phone with my husband and I said can't find him um Hey, so what do you mean you can't find him? I said he's not in the house And so at that point is that when you call 911 or what's going through your mind? She while we were on the phone and I was as like his young the other side of the bed we The normal places he may be in the house, you know, and he wasn't so I was like, okay Well, hold on a minute and immediately after that we Called the sheriff's department and made the report I ran all over the house outside inside I looked in every closet When minutes they were here they responded within minutes and Here we go So you said you were on the phone with her. So you were not home. No, man I was I was at work. I'm a tower crane operator and I was working in Memphis at the same shoe project so it's you know I have an earpiece in that talks to my phone. I have another earpiece in that does the radios So when she was talking to me it was like what I was confused We talked about where it could possibly be and then we went from there and Led to call those cops and here we are now Within minutes They're here at the home. Yes, ma'am It was rapid fire. They had cars They had cars from here down to the to the main road as far as I could tell So what's going through both of your minds? I mean, are we panicking? Is it oh, I think he's probably at a neighbor's house Or what are you thinking? My son doesn't run. He's not a runner He's never run away before um I don't know why I don't know why he walked out that door I mean He's a good kid. He's not He's not a mischievous child by any means um, but There's answers to questions. They have no answers You know or questions excuse me questions with no answers right now that we are searching for desperately and We just don't have that Chase, what do you got? One thing I would really expect to see with these questions that are being asked is what we call target locking behavior And this kind of pairs in with something called confirmation glance And this one behavior I've seen in somebody who's guilty Every time they have this behavior and it's typically during two Super he points here And the first one is when a super critical question is being asked that can help them to Shape their perception a little bit when their innocence can be displayed Second is during and just after their answer to make sure that the interviewer believes it And we're not seeing any of this here at all when she's talking He is comfortable looking at her and this is more common and innocent people where guilty people want to do two things Number one is keep an eye on the interviewer and two avoid looking like they're influencing or persuading the other person by looking at them I know it's uh irrational, but that's what the fight or flight brain believes The mother and father or stepfather Have an equal amount of exasperation with not being able to understand why he's missing and the mother is comfortable guessing he walked out the door instead of Introducing and injecting ambiguity and uncertainty about some course of events. So that's very Uh good So keep in mind when we see small behaviors like greg talking about him grabbing his arm just a second ago One of the reasons we talk about clusters so much pointing out one behavior in isolation Is next to meaningless. We've got to have these little clusters of behavior for anything significant to come out of it That's all I got here scott All right, um, yeah, I agree. It's it's this in this video. It's hard not to go over the same stuff So I'll try to knock try to knock out a bunch of the same stuff But greg I agree with you when you're when he scratches arm. It seems like something's up there I think all it's happening here is he's trying to find something to say so they'll have something to say I don't think he's a a big talker when it comes to You know, tell us what you think about someone. So I don't think he's wanting to drone on and on So I think for each one of these situations, he's just looking for something to say He's just trying to be involved trying to say something Yeah, scott one thing I would add I think it's really easy to pick a thing and lockdown and not just Forget body language the scratch the whole point I was making is that and then he opens up So there's a difference. It's also the same thing if why didn't you choose this question instead of that question? Well, people understand us they make different decisions And this is a reason like statement analysis She's got to be really careful with where you assign words to people based on where they're from and all that kind of stuff Just yeah, yeah, I agree 100% um And then when he's he's um He's he's trying to make he's trying to look more concerned that he's very concerned Don't get me wrong But he's trying to look concerned and I'm under the impression that because he looks concerned for a second Then he goes way fairly quickly Real emotions stick even though he's playing he's feeling these emotions He's not deep deep in it like his wife And my father always said if if in a marriage if one of you is is in the ditch In other words, one of them is down some got a lot of stuff going on You can't get the ditch with him or you'll both be in the ditch So he may be one of those guys It's like trying to stay out of it and trying to be the You know, I'm the guy here and I'm going to take care of everything So that could be what we're seeing as well Which I'm tenant it start starting to look like that a little bit for me But he doesn't really even answer the question there. It's just You know, he doesn't even answer it and of course she goes along so showing the same Emotional transmissions and transmitting the same thing that that she has been at this point So nothing's changed much for her. She's just a you know Showing us all the body language of a of a grieving mother Try not to repeat stuff you guys just said Mark. What do you got? Yeah, just just one thing is that when he was talking about being up in that Crane tower Early in the morning receives the the call. He's got these walkie-talkie in one ear and his phone in the in the other ear I kind of thought wow, that's pretty early to be working and then I realized mrs. Atwood Out the back here Has she she's got a tower block being built behind her place And I can see the the crane as we speak and it's moving around And that starts As soon as the sun comes up as soon as so I don't know what at what time the guy must climb up that You know in the dark, which wouldn't be a job that I would want to do Any day of the week So look often we don't understand the the working times of other people what their work is like And it's very easy if they're doing something which is outside of our scope for us to go Well, that's really odd behavior until we look around and go for their life It's not odd behavior at all. It's all I got on that one. Let's have another I I have a buddy check this out Buddy named Kyle and his sister I His sister Kira met one of those guys as he was climbing Going to the tower you she could she could see him from their window And as he climbed to the thing and every day she would see him doing that make a long story short. They got married Me go up again down again all that stuff and and she'd see him every day a couple of times And they got married. I don't know whether I see the same relationship for mrs. Atwood And I'm the crime driver another atwood incident one of those tape replays So you said you were on the phone with her so you were not home No, man I was I was at work. I'm a tower crane operator and I was working in Memphis at the st. Jude project So it's you know I have an earpiece in that talks to my phone. I have another earpiece in that does the radios So when she was talking to me it was like what I was confused We talked about where he could possibly be and then we went from there and Led to calling the cops and here we are now Within minutes They're here at the home. Yes, ma'am It was rapid fire. They had cars They had cars from here down to the to the main road as far as I could tell So what's going through both of your minds? I mean, are we panicking? Is it this? Oh, I think he's probably at a neighbor's house. Well, what are you thinking my son doesn't run. He's not a runner He's never run away before um I don't know why I don't know why he walked out that door. I mean, he's a good kid. He's not He's not a mischievous child by any means um, but There's answers to questions. They have no answers You know or questions excuse me questions with no answers right now that we are searching for desperately and We just don't have that There anything that happened that day that you think back and there might have been a reason he was possibly upset or Something outside that could have enticed him to go outside. Was there anything that came to mind? we've been coming over that day and Even the weeks before he left and I don't I hadn't been able to figure it out he's um That morning he was laughing. He was joking Everyone we were around that day. He agreed that he would seem like he was in a good mood. He was behaving Make more sense if we'd been fighting Where you'd been in trouble, but he hadn't been in trouble something a The million dollar question. Why did he go and the other million dollar question is how? What about social media? Is there anything that you know, maybe one he could have contacted understand? He was somewhat of a gamer or what was he there was a video game he loved, right? Minecraft he loves minecraft um the The game that he has is not online. He has the the um switch He's We don't because of how social media can be He doesn't have accessibility to communicate with folks On the internet on internet. I mean I we have a firm belief that we just don't feel right now. He's Capable of having that kind of responsibility So, I mean he his phone is locked down his Computers his game. He doesn't have a gamer tag. He doesn't have online capabilities with games um I mean um We've combed every electronic every electronic I mean we've cooperated with all the authorities as far as anything they've asked us to provide we've provided And still just don't have any answers Mark where you got Yeah, the million dollar question or the other million dollar question How how did he go and we get quite a cluster of Gestures in the face there and and gestures with the body. We've got kind of a closed lip Brown which turns up at one side almost in kind of a Contempt kind of kind of way. We've got um, it was certainly it's an asymmetrical gesture By any stretch hands go out in a in a shrug. There's a sideways look on that Well, so it's quite a shift from what he's done before on how did he go? I would suggest what he's saying here is that He feels that's the question How did he how did he get out there? That's key? And I guess at this point it's moving from a a search To an investigation and so I guess he's putting the stress on This the how needs to be Investigated not the where is he where is he they don't know where they haven't found him at this point We now need to go back and work out. How did he leave? And it's maybe I would suggest the father is the stepfather is saying he didn't leave Potentially on his own or that's a possibility that needs to be looked at If if somebody's to think he's guilty of something That's an interesting place to go if you're guilty to go. Let's investigate this Let's work out how he left to put stress on that If I were guilty of something happening in that house, I'd want people to be looking out out out not in not in for stuff Uh, Greg, what are you going this one? Yeah, I agree the market There's a whole lot of adapting and when they're asking him any reason he's feeling awkward You can tell but this guy also if we pay attention to him most of his eye movement The entire thing is going to be down left where he's we think of that as internal voice As he's digesting questions and how things are behaving. I don't think it means he's calculating and doing all that Um, but he's now moving and he's got a heavy internal voice and his respiration's up I think this is the crux of the matter. What happened to this kid? Where did he go? I think some of what you see in that kind of contempt or Twisted face is when they call him a gamer. I think he's thinking That might be a stretch. He plays a game and he does this. He doesn't have a tag What would be interesting for me is we all know that people who are on the spectrum Those especially who are really profoundly affected often can be very good at remembering exact things I would check the father. He's used the word. He has no gaming tag Father may have his own accounts kid may have ability to get into that figure out how to make contact with people In a way that he doesn't understand. So I'd look at all that kind of stuff Um, but she's certain that this kid left She she appears to be certain now. We all know that when someone is missing It's a lot easier to think that they're they left than they were abducted or somebody did something to them So it's always a way of holding a hope and chase. I agree with you earlier with his person lips when he was saying He's going to come home. We're going to see a little bit more of that later I think this guy is a very practical very pragmatic person in appearance and maybe that's where is that Um, but the dad's then goes to internal And emotion internal emotion as they're starting to say how did he get out? That's when mark? I think you're seeing all that behavior like I don't know how would he get out of here and I agree He wouldn't call come into my house and look and see if you can find how he got it out That would probably be the last place you want to go um When he does the here's one thing that you shouldn't do you shouldn't do and somebody says hey Tell me whether you're innocent and you say we're cooperating with the police that doesn't look good It doesn't look good And that's the one thing one of the first things I saw about this In the beginning was a little clip from him on one of the news channels It says we're cooperating with the police that immediately gets your ACLs up and you go well We'd better go check and find out what's going on with this guy. Scott. What do you got? All right? Yeah, when when talking About the father she says About the real father. She says he talks to his son on a regular basis A lot of times you'll see that go. Oh, it's something wrong I think the mother and the father obviously they're divorced. There's probably a little Rift going on there. So she when she's talking about that she probably calls him his son Yeah, you come get your son you do that that could be it may not be but I think maybe that's why she's using That instead of saying the child's name Um, he's adapting with his hands and she's she's still rocking and and he gets in the sink with her for a second But his breath rate goes up and it's it's fairly heavy for a second But because I can't decide this this one like I told you before I'd gone down a whole road that's that Got more information. It's like that. There's no road there and His eyes are darting around so that makes me a little That puts me a little off there for that question there Then he looks at her again and she never looks at him Then he adds another cornball Answer to that million dollar question And the same thing for the second million dollar question. What happened and you know and have where to go and how My question would be what happened and where is he? But you know, you may not think like that along those lines when you're in that position um And where the like he was saying what we're the question about cooperating with all the authorities come into play Where did where do we hear that he just threw that in there? I didn't see any any place to even spark that as he went through so maybe he's You know it I don't know. Maybe he's worried about that. I can't really tell but um His his so far as his innocence has been In question here. So why would he add that that makes me Suspicious there and then again toward the end they start sinking together as they're rocking chase. What do you got? Yeah, I agree and uh when he says it makes it make more sense if we had been fighting The statement is really revealing There's a good chance parents who are involved would be far less likely to bring up any mention of fighting or anything negative They tend to default to pretending that everything was perfect Nothing bad ever happens. The data also mentions him being in trouble Which is also a good indicator that he's genuinely missing here because it's not trying to pretend to be perfect There's a strong confirmation glance after the mother Says the word switch And she's looking over to him right at that moment when she's talking about the nintendo machine This is most likely to see if the reporter or she looks to the reporter To see if the reporter knows even what that is because it's probably still a foreign object to the mom So she's making sure the reporter knows it Then they're talking about not having the answers. This is common. They're not introducing Finality complexity or ambiguity into the situation. There's a huge difference between being at a total loss for what happened And what we've seen in other videos where the parents speak in terms of the case being unsolvable All resources have been exhausted everything that could have been done has already been completed. This is very different than that So their behavior overall is apathetic And sad and not concerned with displaying emotion and managing perception Those are the two big things that are missing here. There's not a lot of display of emotion deliberate display and managing perception Keep in mind That nothing we say means anybody's innocent and in all of our videos people tend to think we're analyzing people Or the case but we aren't what we're telling you in every video is about the presence or lack of behaviors So if you hear somebody say anywhere on youtube that they believe something and they don't and they don't uh Point to the observable behavior and what they're saying Then you're hearing opinion about the person not the behavior So keep this in mind if you're watching anybody and ask yourself do they refer to what they think to specific and something that's actually observable and y'all talking about him going into the how I would say and With him talking to police and 90 of these cases if you find out the how that usually leads to where So that might be some him something he picked up from uh, the detectives mark. What do you got? I've been I've been all right. We've all I think we're all done All right. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Yeah Oh shit Oh There it is. Look at him. He looks like he's playing with those games. I'll get him. Okay. It's like space invaders back from the 80s And he's back you're back. Greg back. Sorry, man. You're Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, uh, did you see your face though? Oh, you didn't see yourself frozen Oh, okay Yeah Did you hear did you hear everything that uh mark was saying about the british woman? Do what? Okay, okay, so you didn't see chase Okay, okay, so you didn't know you were muted this whole time You're muted Yeah, when the generator turned up that's why Generator turned up back on I hit me. I did shit. I'm gonna noise That was awesome. That was probably our longest mute ever. That's a good Someone has beat my record. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna have to Now that was tough create a whole new award It's gonna cost I deserve it when the generate when I could hear the generator turning off and on I hit mute because I was like, okay We don't want all this coming up when it does come back up and then yeah That was great, man. Love it. Love it. Good classic history history was made today. That's a good one We need that because this is a dark subject That's all 12th of march 12th of march 2024 The longest mute ever Greg Hartley ladies and gentlemen At uh, 248 p.m. Eastern time. Yeah, beautiful beautiful. God bless one of those tape replays There anything that happened that day that you think back and there might have been a reason he was possibly upset or Something outside that could have enticed him to go outside. Was there anything that came to mind? We've been coming over that day and Even the weeks before he left and I don't I hadn't been able to figure it out he's um That morning he was laughing. He was joking Everyone we were around that day agreed that he would seem like he was in a good mood. He was behaving Make more sense if we'd been fighting Where you'd been in trouble, but he hadn't been in trouble something Hey The million dollar question. Why did he go and the other million dollar question is how What about social media? Is there anything that you know, and he wanted to contact it understand He was somewhat of a gamer or what was he there was a video game he loved, right? Minecraft he loves Minecraft um the The game that he has is not online. He has the the um switch He's We don't because of how social media can be He doesn't have accessibility to communicate with folks On the internet on internet. I mean I we have a firm belief that we just don't feel right now. He's Capable of having that kind of responsibility So, I mean he his phone is locked down his Computers his game. He doesn't have a gamer tag. He doesn't have online capabilities with games um I mean We've combed every electronic every electronic I mean we've cooperated with all the authorities as far as anything they've asked us to provide we've provided And still just don't have any answers Did he have any friends that could have possibly contacted him in some way on his phone? All his friends at school have been Questioned to my knowledge and none of them knew anything So this big question mark is vanished. Yes, ma'am. No, I can figure out where or why um all right, so Let's talk to about The relationship involved because they're the biological father is very much involved in Sebastian's life as well Yes, ma'am very much Right, um, and and how would you describe that relationship the two of them and the four of you It's relatively good. I mean we talk regularly. He talks to his son on a regular basis sees him on a regular basis He's involved in school and therapy and um I mean He doesn't have any extracurricular activities, but I can tell you now if he did his dad would be in the front row um In two different households And the communication between the three of us is is great I mean, yes, we're just like every parent We all have our disagreements, but in the end we come together as a team and we work and we come up with solutions That as we best see fit. I mean he's I'm almost in contact with him almost daily All right, Greg, why don't you go first Yeah, so this one I'm only gonna cover a couple of things if we want to talk about the relationship between the family There's certainly something going on here But anytime you get a plant family with a step parent and all that kind of thing There's going to be some kind of disagreement But if you don't believe it he tongue juts when they're talking about how good the relationship is She uses a qualifier relatively and she does purse lips. So there's something going on between them There's some baggage back and forth. It could be around You know, I read that he's pretty stern about the use of the cell phone And he says that here says that we don't allow him to use it freely and that kind of thing There could be disagreement with the father about that and then you get to this baggage about where a child lives So I'm not going to read anything into it I'm just going to say You might even get different opinions from the father than you're getting from the stepfather and the mother Because that's the way relationships work out. You know, you don't tell me and then I've recently read That the child was this Sebastian was supposed to move Back in with the father at the beginning of summer. Look while we're at this Let's stop for just one second and say do anything you can go look at posters of this kid Push these posters through your social media network Do anything you can to help people find this kid whether he's safe or whether he's not safe Let's get this kid some help right now and do as much as you can Social media is a powerful tool broadcast this across everything you own And we may actually get some help for this kid chase. What do you got? Totally agree so The stepfather here seems to be eager to grab onto this big question mark question that the reporter brings up Uh of not being able to find where he is and since we aren't seeing clusters of other behavior I think this is more likely out of a desire to appear innocent Which keep in mind you still see an innocent people who logically understand that they're probably a suspect Then uh, how would you describe his relationship? And talking about the biological father. This is a question from the reporter There's a strong pronounced tongue jut there And this indicates disagreement or maybe getting away with something, but I think we're seeing disagreement here More likely and this isn't spelling out guilt or innocence and most families have some kind of contention between biological and step parents Even if it's small it could show up here with this tongue jut behavior again tongue jut is not a cluster So as he goes forward to describe this relationship There's some disagreement and some signs that they don't get along all the time But not only is that common. He's been openly saying it. He's open about talking about that And pretty open about the relationship being not being perfect And his blink rate when the biological father is mentioned also goes upward And I would not say that any of this would indicate a likelihood of suspicion or doubt as to his involvement And uh, I'm glad they're strict on the Internet usage. I wish I had started at a younger age for that. I didn't know how dangerous it was Scott, what do you go? How old were you when you first got on the internet then chase? Yeah I don't know We were a member because we were in the decades old when we got here I mean when it started happening and on the news they were talking about this thing called the internet and they Would spell out this HTTP Www dot and all this whole thing you had to go to get mail from somebody or go to some site and you'd go It was just it was so archaic But at the time it was like wow, look at all this You know, and people now just growing up with it like it's nothing You know, I remember an aol uh messenger account With a dial up. I'll be telling that dude. I remember the first email that I sent on compu serve Who is it to? to douglas adams Writer of hikers guide to the galaxy. He put his email address At the end he wrote the editorial at the end of the first edition of wide magazine in the uk And I wrote him an email going hey douglas. I've got email It's really cool and he wrote back saying yeah, it's really cool, isn't it? Wow, my first one was to bootsie collins And and and I thought since I had an aol account he would have one too So I sent it to you know bootsie collins at aol.com You know and some somebody wrote me back at one him and I was like dude, so My first one was behind the firewall chase. You'll know Yeah Scott, what do you got? Okay, sorry man. Yeah, uh, as she as she starts her answer they start rocking in tandem again. So For a few seconds. So they're locked up. I think emotionally they're feeling the same thing Although she looks dramatically different than he does. This is happening a couple of times already as we've talked about So it's it's really interesting to see that happen It's like again, it's like matching and mirroring that you do things you're not conscious of That make you look like that person or you do things with that person that you're not conscious You're doing so the big and when when She says the big or he says the big question mark. She says the big question mark. He's vanished and the mother whispers Like that. I think what's going on there is when like quite often you get in these traumatic Situations where it's so much trauma and you hear him say well, tell me about whatever and years later They go, I don't really remember that week of what was happening. I don't remember what happened I remember you being there, but I don't remember anything. I think that's where she is now I think she's so traumatized. She's not going to be able to to to remember what this interview Doing things like that. That's what that looks like to me because I've seen people like that before Or go through that and then when you talk to them, I didn't remember being there. I don't know It's you know, I remember that but I don't remember actually being there. I was gone So I think that's where she is in this at this point And then after the second second question, he that's when he sticks. We see that little tongue thing come out It's almost like some people do when they're angry. So it was it was kind of kind of odd there And then the mother she relays That's positive information about the real father Which is cool. And the stepfather relays information that makes him Give me impression that they probably butt heads a little bit. I think Then he talks about the disagreements with what's happened with Sebastian at times But then he explains he gets some work that they the parents get worked out as they see fit But this this answer I don't know where this came from there's nothing asked about that But then again, I think it goes back to He's just trying to talk to have something to say to feel like, you know To be a part of it and to to connect with everybody on that And another thing that sticks out is that huge micro expression of contempt When it comes up on that sentence I'm in contact with him almost daily because just as he starts that we see it go up like that And this side of his face go up and I'll put a quick little screenshot in there that because I'll pull it out to show you But something's at that that point something's not right there I think the something's not right is of course, there's Competition, you know between the the two fathers, you know, the real father and the stepfather there's going to be those contention there and And something that's a that's what that's about and remember Excuse me, we saw her either one of them say his name yet No, the only person that says his name is the reporter Or the interviewer Mark, what do you got? Uh, yeah, it's simply a reiteration of everything that's been said here Certainly the the stepfather here becomes more alert the moment the Biological father is is brought up um I think that's Reasonable given the politics of the situation here It's not it's not irrational to think that that would happen to some degree Is it's it's pronounced here because because we don't see the father do very much Anyway, he's not big Demonstrative with his feelings so it kind of stands out a little bit here But it's not out of the ordinary for the situation. I would say one of those tape replays Did he have any friends that could have possibly contacted him in some way on his phone? All his friends at school have been Questioned to my knowledge and none of them knew anything So this big question mark he's vanished. Yes, ma'am. No, I can figure out where or why Um, all right, so Let's talk to you about The relationship involved because they're the biological father is very much involved in Sebastian's life as well Yes, ma'am very much Right, um, and and how would you describe that relationship the two of them and The four of you It's relatively good. I mean we talk regularly. He talks to his son on a regular basis sees him on a regular basis He's involved in school and therapy and um I mean He doesn't have any extracurricular activities, but I can tell you now if he did his dad would be in the front row um In two different households And the communication between the three of us is is great I mean, yes, we're just like every parent. We all have our disagreements But in the end we come together as a team and we work and we come up with solutions That as we best see fit. I mean he's I'm almost in contact with him almost daily Um, let's talk about Sebastian. Tell me about Sebastian. How would you describe him? Sweet stubborn Um, he loves to help he loves uh running and he loves to play his games and his fidgets and um uno Lord, that's one of his favorite games right now um Favorite color is green um See like music Oh, he loves music an eclectic taste Uneclectic, I mean from As everybody knows eye the tiger to eddie vetter Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, so we got we got pearl jam on one hand. We've got survivor on the other over here We've got taylor swift and uh, he's got a big crush on her um I mean country rock No, we don't we don't allow the hip-hop. Well, he didn't really get to do it. Anyways, things we You mentioned he loved running so Did he love the outdoors at all? I mean would something outside that was somewhat outdoorsy be I see them or pull them outdoors. He loves like when When we were in california and the school had this lap thing to gain money It was a fundraiser and every year he was I did this many laps. I did this many laps I mean, I've got t-shirts where they would write on his back every time the kids went around They'd mark a mark on the back and they'd keep running and he just had marks all the way across his back um He likes playgrounds um He hates being dirty He don't like being dirty Yeah, he's not a he's not your Tom boy style child where he goes outside and plays in the mud. He loves animals, but he's terrified of bugs. Oh, yeah Okay, I mean even a fly and he's like All right chase. What do you got? Both of them are expressing truthful recall when they're listing all these things that sabastian likes to do They speak about him in present tense like he's still around This shows us a couple of things Parents who know the disposition of a deceased child are more likely to accidentally default to past tense when referring to them And parents who speak in past tense about a child Who aren't involved can show that there's a finality to their feelings like they're no longer have faith in the child returning Uh, so all the expressions here are genuine and Unforced and when they're both Both of them discussing his likes and dislikes. They're comfortable All the facial expressions the gestures the movements match the syntax and the timing They speak about all the things in present tense with genuine joy and parents who are involved with the disappearance Uh, even if they can look back fondly on a child's behaviors are still having to Manage perceptions and maintain deception which keeps them from being this fluid And unconstrained in their descriptions. So this fear of being discovered mutes and muffles these expressions that you're seeing Right here in this video that look very genuine to me at least mark. What do you got? Uh, yeah the same look very positive comments Around the child only one negative one which is about him being stubborn Which is then kind of laughed off. I think in a in a very natural way To be positive about him and there's every reason why A child on the spectrum reaching Teenage years is going to become more and more Stubborn often in their in their behaviors not every child of that nature and not every child But there is a possibility that uh, this will be a thing for that family at the moment um They get really animated about the, uh Sebastian's love of of music Clearly that is a a joy for them. It's a um They're proud both of them. They're proud especially the stepfather. I think shows that real engagement With uh with the sun Around around that music piece. There's clearly they're proud of his love of music and his engagement with the music And I think the stepfather seems to show some kind of strong relationship With the with the sun around that music Peace not the kind of thing that I would expect from Two people who've been involved in some kind of crime Around the child Again, do I know that to be true? No, not what I would expect So you'd need to give me lots of other evidence for me to see that would show me An alternative to this show it to me so I could see it hear it touch it You know We want evidence to the contrary not just possibilities and ideas and imaginations Around it. Greg. What do you think? So let's first talk about clusters of behavior and we always say you need cluster of behavior to indicate deception But that's not the only thing clusters of behavior can indicate You have to look for clusters that are positive clusters that mean something else And there's a great one here. He's all the stepfather's all locked down He's in internal voice and his eyes zone out. They go out of focus. That means he's thinking to himself He's inside his own head working What's consuming him? We could automatically assign guilt to that, but it doesn't necessarily mean guilt Uncertainty other things we can't tell that what we can see is a cluster of behavior around to ask about the child What we would expect and you both have just hammered this one But what we would expect from a person who is trying to hide that they know the child is dead Is not happy when they think about the weirdness of this kid who has all these You know 14 year old kids are mostly weird because they're trying to figure out what being an adult is Well, they're still a child and this kid has got a lot of that and they're amused by that So he comes out of this absorption this focus this internal dialogue With a smile when they're talking about him being stubborn Yeah, he's that and you see all of that happiness We know that a person who knows someone is past if you lose a child If you may never get back to the point you think positive things when that child is brought up Or when you think about the goofiness of things they did But you certainly wouldn't be okay with it right now good indicator So clusters can be good or bad We can see the person consumed by something and it doesn't he doesn't come out of it into a negative Into a perception management into one of those tools that we think people who have injured somebody or hurt somebody have And he uses great illustrators when he's talking about he loved music here He loved music here pearl jam to look at that that all these things together So all of these pieces and then real smiles as they talk about bugs and his panic when you would see bugs They're amused by that all those things are a cluster that usually would indicate this person's not involved So i'm gonna call that one out loud and clear and Mark to your point. Can I be wrong? Sure. I'm not 100 right if if you think you're 100 right as a bio language reader You have no clue what you're doing. Let's just call that out right here. That's all I got All right, should I go? Oh, I thought you'd go In that case Scott, do you think you're all right? No, it always seems like I go because I talk first That's why i'm last again I've forgotten It's okay now I'll be okay So I just not to reiterate all the stuff you guys went over not to make it boring The one thing that I think when he was talking when they were talking about music And they started talking about he started saying how he doesn't let him listen to hip-hop and she says Well, he doesn't like that. Anyway, I think he was just putting that in there So he so to show that he cares about what he listens to because I think music is probably important to him Yeah, because a lot of people think hip-hop's not music. Well, it's not his kind of music But it may be one of those things where he doesn't want that kid out repeating what he said, you know And and something that's rap, but he may just talk it and it is had in busted one of those tape replays Let's talk about Sebastian. Tell me about Sebastian. How would you describe him? sweet stubborn um He loves to help he loves uh Running and he loves to play his games and his fidgets and um uno Lord, that's one of his favorite games right now. Um Favorite color is green um Sealed music Oh, he loves music an eclectic taste Uneclectic, I mean from As everybody knows I the tiger to Eddie Vedder. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So we got we got pearl jam on one hand We've got survivor on the other over here. We've got taylor swift and He's got a big crush on her Um I mean country rock No, we don't we don't allow the hip-hop. Well, he didn't really I think what happened to things we You mentioned he loved running So Did he love the outdoors at all? I mean with something outside that was somewhat outdoorsy It's icing to him or pulled him outdoors. He loves like when We were in california and the school had this lap thing to gain money It was a fundraiser And every year he was I did this many laps. I did this many laps I mean I've got t-shirts where they would write on his back every time the kids went around They'd mark a mark on the back and they'd keep running and he just had marks all the way across his back um He likes playgrounds Um He hates being dirty He don't like being dirty Yeah, he's not a he's not your tom boy style child where he goes outside and plays in the mud He loves animals, but he's terrified of bugs. Oh, yeah Wow, okay. I mean even a fly and he's like Is sabash jen Is able to watch this and maybe he's watching this as it airs And if he is what do you want to say to sabash and what do you want him to hear from you right now? That we love you so much and we want you to come home And you're not in trouble I guarantee you he is loved And trust me the open arms are waiting for him to come home From every parent to every family members to probably everyone in the community But there's no malice that we just want our boy home that That mama's heart. I know it's daddy's too But I feel like there's always that extra special bond Can you walk us through what you're thinking right now? I just want my baby to be okay I don't know where he's at I don't know where he's at Let's talk about the community because I want you all to know Even even that church body. I mean, we're all praying. We're all praying for his safe return Quickly What do you want want to say to the community? Thank you With everything from bottom of our hearts we I would not have Imagine how far this has gotten But there's no way to repay gratitude The love that we even felt from the community the prayers But thank you But don't stop working. Please My son is somewhere I say no until he's home um I go first on this one since I've been going last every time just about so Um, I think she gives a heartfelt answer. That's coming. That's coming right from the heart That's a mother who's grieving right there and he doesn't know what to say So he goes in this cornball thing about the family and open arms and all that But the thing that bothers me is when he says there's no malice That's that's lawyer talk so and then he tells and Well, I'll skip that part. Um So that probably says he's probably spent some time in court. Obviously he has and then And when he also when he says that for the reason he would be in course in court talking about malice Makes me think he might have a little bit of a tamper on him That's but you know, that's neither here nor there at this point But it sounds like he's trying to convince the mother that he feels for the child And then we see that upheaval of emotion on her And that's that's the thing I always talk about what's missing from someone who is Um, who is innocent you see that and I think that was when she closed her eyes and she's rocking back and forth And and talking in a real quiet volume And then it hits her again that horror of what's going on and she almost loses it There she shakes out of it. Then she ends up putting her hand into her mouth. Now if it had been fake I think what would happen was she would have done that and put her Hand up to her mouth at the same time But it was just it was a not even a thought but it came up after that I think we almost once her lose it. I think we were really close on that so um I I I think that that that's real But I don't think the dad knows what the word gratitude means by the way he's using it So I think again that lets me know he's just just talking and adding stuff in there just to to Have a lot to talk about During that greg. What do you got? Yeah, I think this emotion is real. I'm going to probably be a little bit of outlier here I think the emotion is real. I can't tell you why I mean we can assume we understand why but If it were not real listen to the interviewer now the interviewer interestingly has been using the past tense to describe this kid all throughout the interview because You know, that's what she does for a living and she's gotten to that point When the mother comes apart is interesting because they ask the question if he can hear you now I'm going to assume that that's because she's taking the gravity of the moment But also assume if you had some part or feel like you had some part even if it's just guilt Guilt because the kid is gone You would have that same emotional outburst or emotional release because if you think you caused the person to disappear If you think you did something that caused that kid to run away and then something happens You would feel a hell of a lot of guilt. So is it guilt? Is it feelings of sadness just from sadness? Can't tell that what we can see is it's real emotion heartfelt Feels it and you can tell it by the person coming there There's also one on his side that makes me feel a little uncomfortable not the malice piece Well, I agreed that probably is something he picked up from someone else He says we just want our boy here, but with a big old tongue jut That's awkward Now that could be chase you brought it up early that he has a feeling of something. He's trying to he's trying to project something else But it's awkward This is the single most awkward thing in the entire video to me and it would not be if he just said We want a home boy home, but If he didn't do the tongue jut I'd say okay Just one weird pattern of words because he's had a couple But it just makes me want to lean over and tap him and say why don't you say but you know why? Are you losing confidence in the search? I would make it about something else to get him to talk But look guys, this is an emotional time for these two people. It doesn't matter What's causing it? But this area I would focus on those two just to pay attention and listen to their words moving past this And we will and see if something comes back up to give us some indicator so far. I've heard things like We heard things about friends and we heard things around in trouble around resistant and spat and So fighting So there's probably been a some baggage associated with this would cause her to feel something So I'll give her the benefit of the doubt there and say mark. What do you got? Yeah, you're right Greg The butt is whatever the weather is certainly a loss of confidence Uh, you know what that loss of confidence is it is about, you know, given that There's a lot of a setup of needing hope Especially at this point and it could be a loss of confidence around that I don't know could be it's a speculation that I'm having um Okay, so I would say you're absolutely right the the mother is is close to not being able to contain Her emotions anymore. It's affecting the interviewer now We hear that interviewer's voice change when the interview talks about the community We can hear that interviewer taking on the same rhythm and emotion as the mother I would say the father has been in cognitive empathy Throughout this and he's now moving to emotional empathy. He's close to joining in with emotional empathy um For the for the mother close to having the same emotion My assumption is he's been playing the role of of strength and and order During this just as uh, maybe chase or scott. I can't remember which of you said, you know If if both people start taking the role of going down that well of emotion Like who you know, who's there to to control That you've got to have you know, if everybody goes down that route It's complete chaos nothing wrong with going down that route But in a partnership you kind of need You know one partner to to to hold on to the steering wheel while the other goes down that route and vice versa Um, you know, who knows what happens with that father stepfather Outside of an interview and what happens with the mother outside of that interviewer The two roles could could could change instantly Here's what I like about what I hear at the end of this Don't stop looking and the stepfather immediately comes in with pleas Well for somebody if we're thinking here that this is somebody who's involved in a crime You'd never jump in immediately with pleas you'd hold back With that you'd wait and see This ain't over till he's home and that's stress on home So look, I think for me from what I see there from the evidence that I see in this particular Video there seems to be quite a conflict here between The the the hope of getting the kid home and A reality at eight days in as to as to but you know, what's the likelihood at this at this point statistics Uh, never look good at eight days chase. What do you got on this one? Yeah, y'all have some really great points. It's really insightful points here on this and I agree. This is what true grief Looks like when the reporter suggests sat Sebastian's watching You can see it on her face when she's trying to come up with this. These expressions are almost impossible to fake But if you're on the other side of the fence and you were thinking of maybe people are really good actors Hold on for a second These actors that you're thinking of do several takes. They know the script They prepare ahead of time for the script and they prepare the emotions to display And this reaction was instantaneous On her face in response to a question that she didn't know was coming So when she says oh god There's the emotional pinnacle of truthful expression and genuine grief there So just imagining him Watching is causing this reaction and the thought of being able to speak to him I've watched a thousand of these things give or take And I've never seen a reaction like this in a person who was guilty or involved Never And when she's saying I just want my baby to be okay so often we hear people who are involved saying they want answers Keep that in mind. They want answers to some of these questions. This woman Doesn't care about how people see her. She's not managing her words and and how she's being perceived So when you're guilty and you know the disposition of a child There's plenty of emotional and cognitive room to worry about how to come across And when it's genuine grief the desire to manage perception goes out the window Keep that in mind. You can hear the emotional empathy Scott like you point or whoever that was in the reporter and You don't hear this in other cases with the reporters ever Let's have another Let's have another house me around when it comes to the videos I'll get to the other go to the next one. We're going straight to 11 Think we go go to 11 11 next video one of those tapery plays Is Sebastian Was able to watch this and maybe he's watching this as it airs And if he is what do you want to say to Sebastian? What do you want him to hear from you right now? Oh, gosh That we love you so much and we want you to come home And you're not in trouble I guarantee you he is loved And trust me the open arms are waiting for him to come home From every parent to every family members to probably everyone in the community But there's no malice that we just want our boy home That That mama's heart I know Daddy's too But I feel like there's always that extra special bond Can you walk us through what you're thinking right now? I just want my baby to be okay I don't know where he's at I don't know where he's at Let's talk about the community because I want you all to know Even even my church body. I mean we're all praying we're all praying for his safe return Quickly What do you all want to say to the community? Thank you With everything from the bottom of our hearts we I would not have Imagine how far this has gotten But there's no way to repay gratitude The love that we have felt from the community the prayers But thank you But don't stop looking please My son is somewhere This ain't over until he's home What do you want to say To our viewers anybody who's watching we've got a lot of folks in this community And in other callies just throughout the state as well What do you want to say to them? Help spread the word and keep searching and thank you and um Just if you think you see him call him in Thank all the viewers everybody's helped Across the board. I mean everybody has been tremendous call his name He'll answer and if he doesn't answer he'll at least He'll look Even if he's not being verbal at the moment because he can talk But sometimes he don't talk Um call his name Tell him to stay put He could be on the move. So keep checking our properties. Yes, like The search is never over until he comes home So smart But thank you for everything that everybody has done has volunteered The continuous efforts, I mean it's Like I said, this is I've never seen something to this magnitude before our community is amazing We're all praying and hoping and searching For sebastian's safe return For that day Thank you both for walking with me Okay, sorry guys There we go. All right chase. What do you got? So one thing that all of us look for in every video that we look at is change How does a person change from one way of behaving to a different way of behaving in this whole video? We don't see a lot of it Both of their behaviors are consistent and continuous throughout this whole thing and here's why this is so important When you're innocent behaving like you behave Requires almost zero cognitive effort No one's focusing on their behavior because they don't feel the need to the camera being present might add a layer of Stress here, but that's acceptable and we can see the difference between that. I promise you But being consistent through all of this no matter how much training somebody's had if you're guilty of something I would say it's as close to impossible as it gets to fake at this level and mark. You're an actor you've spent your You've been to all these famous acting schools and stuff Can you help us just to understand like how hard this would be to fake at this level? Here's what makes it really hard is is When you're acting the audience have to get it you're communicating so it can't be muddy It's got to be a clear clear communication Which means you can't have Lots of things going on in your mind. You've got to have a clear clear Throughline and that's what makes Really good actors great communicators, but not necessarily supernatural. You know, I mean, you know, they're not they're not they don't come across as Natural you go. They're a great performer, but that's not what somebody would do in real life What you're seeing here is real life. It's muddy. It's chaotic It's some some of it is is very very subtle some of it's very very clear So none of this is like an actor would would actually do I I would say Acting is a is an art form a communication and expression and what you're seeing there is real life You know 24 times a well 30 times on 30 times a second right now So So so hard so hard to fake and even good actors They don't get awards because they were really natural They get awards because they were very very communicative hope that Answers your question chase Look, here's what i've got on this one She's got a a clear strategy which is urgent Call his name and the father Jumps in with yes Anybody I would suspect who is engaged in a crime in some way Would try and put a barrier in the way of this like here's why that won't work or we've tried that or you know They would put in barriers in the way because they they don't want somebody who's involved in a crime Does not want the evidence to be found and will consciously or unconsciously put barriers in the way there And and look how the mother then acts out The son if there's any change in baseline chase That's one of our biggest changes in baseline as she kind of takes on that spirit of the son and performs How he would perform in that situation if she knew that he's not alive She wouldn't be doing that you wouldn't perform In in in that way. That's her taking on that live son in in her mind Scott, what do you go on this one? It'll be short and boring. So don't go over what you guys got over again Um, we're seeing everything we should see so in other words what you guys are saying is we're seeing everything we should see It looks real to me You know, it looks it looks like it should look to me Greg, what do you got? It's just a few things a couple of that come out immediately is exactly what you said mark Sometimes it's very muddy. It's not the clear thing that we expect and and to that guilt A child is missing guarantee you there's guilt and I don't mean that they're guilty of doing something I mean, they feel guilt imagine yourself If your dog escapes and gets lost you feel guilt imagine that compounding Many times over by an only child and by a child who is reliant on you So there's going to be some of that. There are two things I'd point out here One is when she says call his name he will You see something in his face of concern and I think that face that concern is maybe Often the mother is going to think the child is more communicative than He might think because he was an outsider coming into child's life He may be thinking well, maybe But you can see something fleet through his face very quickly. It doesn't like like grief or shame or any of that It just looks like I'm not sure about that and then his nostrils flare If you're about to cry and you're trying to contain emotion Often men will flare their nostrils very especially in the south where people are not maybe as emotionally Broadcast as as some other parts of the country where certain cultures may be more demonstrative Old south is very contained and you may be seeing that I just see that. I think he is he's close to emotional at the very last thing So nothing near that's all I got for this one one of those tape replays What do you want to say To our viewers anybody who's watching got a lot of folks in this community And in other callies just throughout the state as well What do you want to say to them? help spread the word and keep searching and thank you and um Just if you think you see him call him in Think all the viewers everybody's helped Across the board. I mean everybody has been tremendous call his name He'll answer and if he doesn't answer he'll at least He'll look even if he's not being verbal at the moment because he can talk but sometimes he don't talk Um call his name Tell him to stay put He could be on the move. So keep checking our properties. Yes, like the search is never over until he comes home That is for sure smart But thank you for everything that everybody has done Has volunteered The continuous efforts, I mean it's Like I said, this is I've never seen something to this magnitude before our community is amazed We're all praying and hoping and searching For sebastian's safe return For that day Thank you both Thank you Just one more thing. All right, let's talk around the room and talk about what we think we've seen mark Has a look into you. Look, I mean so much of it looks absolutely Fine, I mean not fine. There's a kid missing nothing fine about that But my attention wouldn't be on these two At this point my attention would be on can we get some more information from the outside in terms of where? Sebastian might be at the moment I'm sure we'll be able to put a link down there If you see something if you have some information, uh, you go to that link, uh, let's put our our energy there Certainly, that's where I'll put my energy chase. What do you think? Yeah, uh Let's talk about this nintendo switch for just a second. I promise my son is 15 and I we all use these iPhones here and I put every parental control known to mankind on that phone The guy that works for my company used to be a manager at an apple store He walked me through the whole thing. I didn't screw anything up And he's like, oh can I lay with my phone tonight so I can listen to an audio book turn the permissions on for audible Entire phone unlocked the next morning whole thing I tried it again unlocked So let's not discount that this switch could very well be getting on the internet and there's other reasons For him to be on the internet talking to people and stuff the testosterone is at like an all-time high in his life right now And there's so many apps out there that like self-destruct messaging and stuff. So we're praying for him And I think this video stands as a testament to how differently honest behavior looks And if you go back and look at it how wildly different it looks from some of those other videos that we've looked at And if you have any information about uh, sebastian Uh, please reach out or any missing person one call Could bring a child back to their family even if it feels like it's insignificant And if you have any information about sebastian call 1 800 tbi find tbi fi indy Greg Yeah, let's say that again. What 800 tbi find call that number if you have any contact with this guy If you see anybody if you think you've seen him call because they need every lead they can possibly get Let's talk about some of the words used in this Interview and I agree with you chase. Let's compare this to all the others. We've seen where we're laughing Did yours laugh a whole lot in this one actually is kind of low-key because we're not laughing We're not like saying look at that and I'll go ahead. We're not usually laughing at the case We're laughing at people's attempt to hide something that they've done and we're not doing that if you notice There's they use the word fighting. They said in trouble. They said resistant. They said spat They said, you know stubborn Didn't like to go outside. What we hear a lot is there's likely been some altercation not angry fighting hurting the child But there's been this disagreement that's been escalating. It's what you hear You'll have all the friends he can possibly have and if you watch this whole video You'll find the mother talking about friends and about him always wanting friends So chase on with you if a kid has access and you said it earlier Scott I didn't grow up with all this stuff in my hands. So I don't think about It things the same way a person who's had that in their hands since they were born does So kids are a lot smarter getting out of stuff and it doesn't matter what is on the spectrum somewhere How he learned to do something you don't know his memory may be much better than yours So whether he got access to friends that weren't friends whether he got access to friends They got him out of the house. We don't know any of that. We can't read minds. We can't Tell any of that what we can see is there's guilt in this mother at places and in the father occasionally the stepfather occasionally They don't know how to behave because they've never helped never dealt with this before And the only time and we didn't cover this video the only time we've seen the animation Is around a case around a case for custody in another state by the stepfather We didn't cover that one go watch it for yourself. See what you think But I think what we have here is a pattern that this kid could have wanted out Could have gotten out and the mother certainly looks like she feels it now last thing i'll say We aren't expert at reading minds. We don't pretend to read minds Is it entirely possible that one of these guys is like sure but man, they're good if they are and that's what i'd say Scott what you got? Yeah, I mean it's this woman is a You know a psychopathic genius if she's if she's done this and this guy You know because I like I said before I went down the wrong road because I had some information That uh said one thing and it wasn't true. So I was like, well, this makes sense that everything fell into place Or but if he if if he's guilty then he's the coldest guy in the world that's ever walked the earth man I think this guy wow So, you know, who knows? It we can't get out and say oh, they did or they didn't do it Those kind of things we can get all emotional and go it looks like to me like and it looks like to me like and those will make sense but We're just reading body language. So we're gonna tell you what we see All right fellas things another good and then we'll see you next time Yep, just one more thing