 see that this is a total fruit volume and this is a CCP fruits volume so then conversion policy the fruits can contribute 30% of the fruit supply and also grass so Disasters of the This is in a level we also monitoring the Effective irrigation area and also the pure From this chart you can see that there is a constant increase of Irrigation area in our 100 country monitoring and also for the letter goes up rapidly and decline and Green here per unit You can see in the county level this Unit of green production increase this much and our home building household So in some sense CCP really increase the Productivity of problem use this this statistic data And also we captured the total drop that damage area caused by the natural disasters decrease totally but drop increase and I also done some magic analysis from that you can see the green protocols in Our 100 counties by the Elements for area green and Substitute of green and you vision and for the letter But for this LP is not too sick and significant. I'm sure that's The implementation of CCLP should be to increase up green production So Discussion This is a production from a very deep curve When farmers convert their croplands we get at one Geological Functions the farmers better and I'm managing their Forest land we get second output of things at two and then CZP automatically Eventually achieved its event of course then F3 will be the three the third output of Production so if the F7 F3 Realized then production probability curves were So at least both every culture and the forestry were increased so This is one of our monitoring households plus. This is Do is clean some management. This is between with us. So From this you can see that there is a shoot different environmental output from this too and This is one of our monitoring village. It's near Water is goes to a big city in Kuomint and this is a conversion Crocland here if we do not convert this crocland to forest then the water your big damage so actually CCLP is this really a massive Chinese efforts to reverse our thousand years of deforestation and over exploration of forest land and tried balance Agriculture and the forestry And also in our policy design that report has always always been the concern of this policy and Reproduction has become part of CZP policy in the second phase and This is that we include increase the rural forest food security by providing stable Substance we provide subspace for farmers as they involved in the project each year and Which guarantee their basic need? This is the increase of the poverty rate of our monitoring households and This is the student survey from that you can see the poor Racial economic trees Developing country could balance its agriculture and the forestry values Importance of environmental concerns and The country's economic Developed it can reinvest and to compensate. It's part of loss of environment So this is the landscape. We are just a few trees in Yunnan. This is the landscape is really overexposed They are in the last 2000 years because of the corporate money This is the because of the CZP the trees start going there, but My interview farmers he very happy about CZP, but he really worried because after 10 years CZP implementation the subspace goes down and agriculture Subspace goes up and also the price of Crop goes up. So he told me that the current CZP subspace is only 120 of his crop land Income so it's it's really a challenge for the future CZP policy and also the Relationship between environmental and green production and small holders and product levels should have a considerable Potentials to explore for the primary results of IP DRC and the civil really We think after our one-year cooperation with civil we do think we do some profound research on Plot and household level we can find out the relationship between environmental outcomes and Levels and also with security Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay with an independent researcher on environmental forest and biodiversity governance based in New Delhi, India This is a presentation. She prepared with Ms. Manju Menant the program director of environmental justice Environmental Justice Program for Namati also based in New Delhi. Their presentation is entitled property food production and forest management in smoking land All those who actually put together this panel It also helped us put together our thoughts about this very interesting subject in many areas Loping lands in India Which are which are in transition? I'd like to acknowledge that this is not what I'm going to speak about is joint work of Manju and me and over the last several years of traveling together in India and Working on a variety of issues in these in these parts Over the technological errors What what basically a few things that we're going to be talking about here is How in in India in smoking lands how there has been over the years in ever since Precolonial time in India. There has been a separation of farms and forests in policy while these landscapes kind of They all merge together. They are together in policy and in interventions of the government As well as agencies, there has been the separation between farms and forests And this happened this also this whole project of separation started in pre-colonial times It is also after India's independence in 1947 that the separation actually continued and Yeah, and it kind of gave an impression that both forests and farms provide different things when they're actually part of an Individed landscape in in the two especially in the two places that I've been talking about later on in this presentation And in both these places Which which I'll be speaking about they exemplify how forest regulation in India ever since You know ever since the 98 1800s, but especially after from 1927 onwards Have had different experiences in different landscapes people have responded differently Governments meant to be differently for forest regulation, and it's had a very interesting role to play even when it comes to land use change Forest was separated from food Producing areas which forest very interesting as we all know also provide food So often when we talk about food security, it's about you know, increasing for agricultural production Putting more more areas under cultivation in the previous presentation there's an entire entire justification to actually talk about forests themselves providing food And farms also provide cash So these are the these are the these are the kinds of issues that we have been trying to deal with What also is significant to understand is that what really gets affected by these hard boundaries is not just Mobilities of people but also the freedom to choose what is food and how it should be produced So actually by forcing plantations and farm lands in our agri-forest forestry schemes or Saying that cultivation should take place in forest There is a certain kind of forced Intervention that is taking place through policy that they need programs or for that matter even newer schemes under the climate change regime through payment for ecosystem services There is an induced way of how food should be produced or what should be conserved and how What is good for the globe? What is global good? Yeah, over the years there has also been You know forests have been seen as revenue generating units. So They've been they've been gradually freed up for business Timber has been a very very significant part of the colonial expansion in India There's also the proposed new colonial times and the value of timber continues to and all the focus of timber continues to be very Strongly there in falsely programs including in India's new In other programs, which are talking about intervention I'll be speaking about two specific areas in different parts of India which Agroforest mosaics and One is part of southern southern western part of India in the state of Karnataka. It is called Uttar Karnataka It's part of the western parts of India and everybody here would know about that It's dominated by farming by the Brahmin community in Indian caste to Brahmins and not known to be a farming community But this is this is probably the only farming Brahmins Who actually cultivate spice gardens and very very interesting Agroforestry practices and they are the most study areas was but very interestingly if you look at policy Documents, they have been many of these Forestry intervention programs because and especially when it comes to uplands because they don't really fit into the definition of Planning permission documents speak about 600 meters minimum minimum elevation for an area to be considered as upland But then behave pretty much like upland in these areas But because of the 600 meter elevation, Uttar Karnataka has not seen any of the most Development government development interventions, which is why people don't like And the other area I'm talking about is Northeastern part of India, which is in the state of Sikkim It is the district of North Sikkim Which is a border area with neighboring countries with Nepal and China and It also it's in the Eastern Himalayas We're talking about ethnic minority communities and this is relatively understudied reaching out Sikkim is not very easy So it's you don't get that there are landslides. It's not really a study area And what we're talking about is a farm forest continue that continues to exist even till date You have you have been one particular area is There is a reserve forest area, there are sacred roads, there's paddy and millet cultivation, there's spice gardens And there's petal lands which are these areas which have which have been historically Provided to farmers, the farming farmers, so that they can collect leaf litter for their spice gardens There's multi-layered cropping on-cursion system, argana, pepper, vanilla, gogo and all the range of things that are produced From earlier times British officers persuaded to allow farmers to use these areas There's been historical practice of these common areas where farmers would actually collect leaf litter So this would be under the jurisdiction of the forest department but farmers would be able to use it Actually the mobility between the farm and the forest was very good It was constantly taking place and it continues to do so now Forest are close by and it's people's everyday practice There's nothing that I need to go over the forest only once in a while You're possibly moving in and out of the landscapes, they're just very much an integrated part of our lives Yeah, visited everyday, valued and cherished, for a variety of reasons Not just because of the timber that they provide or the leaf litter that they provide They have picnics, they do go with families and other kinds of cultural associations with the forest The district continues to have a 70% forest power because of agriculture and the fluidity is part of that Increasingly because of agricultural policy and because agriculture is increasing and coming unviable In many of these parts, economically unviable, there is migration There is also lots of young people not anymore living in these areas And from these landscape people are moving into cities There is also the threat of individualized right-space discourses coming in So let not be the same better than be used by different sets of people I want my individual ownership and drive over it so that I can continue using it no matter what the intervention is So that asset building is becoming a part of this whole system there It's beginning to come in, it's not yet established And there is what you see is there is land use change There is land use change because of the sale of land even though... And there are moving threats of new hydropower projects coming up Because of rescue carts, you know, origins of rivers And a lot of potential of developing hydropower And of course, there is a resistance to converting the land use into the destructive land use That hydropower will do the large areas of submergence coming up Parts of these districts have been converted, but 7 parts people have conserved these areas The other area that I want to speak about, as I mentioned, is North Sikkim It's one of the northernmost districts of the state of Sikkim You're talking about in the lower parts of Sikkim, there is rice Rice terraces that you would see And in the upper regions, even in especially areas like Zongu, the ethnic reserves You would see a large cardinal plant, large scale cardinal plantations Which have been there for a century or more And this is mostly owned and permanently owned Or individually owned by the India tribal communities And a lot of migrant labor comes in to work on these farms This landscape is also lots of home gardens Which is integrated part of... I think the significance of the home gardens Is also coming up much more now because of what is happening in the cultivation in the area And Sikkim actually is a much newer state in India So it was an independent kingdom which became part of the Indian state Much after India independence When the farm power continued in those months It used to be the history of how Sikkim really became part of India in mind However, despite its difference, forest management has followed the usual method of separation between farms and forests And it's quite significant in Sikkim because what you see in Sikkim is what Manju always talks about There will be a distinction between farms and forests That has come through forest regulations and forest policies This is the part that you will cultivate in Sikkim That has come up in Sikkim ever since it became part of India And prior to these regulations, most of these parts were also for shifting cultivation Slashable cultivation which is in many forest management regimes Not considered to be the most ecological environment So there has been a replacement of that system that later came up And there have been... So it was a cyclical opening of plots from Mardi Gras farming And the remaining plots were left to India which is part of the shifting cultivation practice What is happening in Sikkim now is this large scale The large cardinal plantations which was introduced in Sikkim Have been regenerating their vests There have been other problems that have taken place in these large cardinal plantations And the activated reasons which are not completely documented are either being overharvest or through pests In many ways these are things that the policies never really accounted for When you are increasing cardinal plantations they are encouraging it Or bringing more area under cardinal plantations which was a very viable problem for the area You never really anticipating that there would be a drastic decline in this And the entire area would be... Suddenly people would wonder what to do And that's why the significance of home gardens is coming up Because people are really going back to developing home gardens And that model in not just the upper regions of Sikkim But even a little lower So through these case studies what do we think would be a few emerging issues That probably would be of interest for future research or policy intervention And other discussions in these parts And there are obviously places like not Sikkim are very different from other Plain areas of the country where large scale large farms have been introduced Have been part of the landscape These have been largely small rounder farms Working fairly sustainably over the years Yes in many ways they are trapped in their geography And other than that there have been other than the land use conversion For either agroforestry or either for conservation Plantation purposes are increasing productivity These areas are also under threat of other kinds of land use People in Sikkim have been actually resisting a lot of the hydropower projects Through a lot of ethnic resistance identity politics as well But these are the designs for viewing some of these parts As what they should be for the future What should they store for the future Dams have been very much part of the narrative there Including also things like border routes Because border area for the armed forces is a very important strategic area So it is an area which continues to be such So there are agroforestry programs that are of the ministry of agriculture And agroforestry programs of the ministry of forest Both of them don't speak to each other So what we are talking about is the established farm forest connections Systems that allow for diversity in choice Through that engagement that takes place Encourage mobility for optimal use over seasons in this entire landscape Emphasize the collaborative use of ethnicism rather than property rights There is an increasing shift Whether in climate change regime or forest rights regime Or over rights towards individual property rights I think somewhere that is going to really Portion of pieces of farms and forests into land That means nothing much than What can be translated in case land use change takes place And then actually speak about not just schemes But we actually speak about what should be the ultimate environmental outcome As the ultimate environmental outcome Better life experience, freedom of control, over life Rather than a set of idealised environments And use change in the Mekong region and their forests And their services Will be given by Mr. Dietrich, Mr. Mekram, China office Continue to speak here at this summit In my presentation I would like to introduce A very special region of Asia The Mekong region where we observe Massive land use change Happening at a very rapid pace In the uplands and I would like in my presentation To very briefly outline these changes And also outline what are the implications For forests, forest cover, biodiversity And livelihoods And I will give a very brief introduction Into the Mekong region Into the changes that we are observing And into what implies that for livelihoods And biodiversity The Mekong region is a region of That is first of all defined by the Mekong flowing through it So we count among the countries of the Mekong regions Those countries are at least partly part of the Mekong watershed That is Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos And two provinces of China The Mekong region is a region of Very intensive and rapid economic change Or economic growth that crosses boundaries Along economic corridors And both the economic growth And the trans-boundary nature of the economic growth And the impact of actors across boundaries Are the important drivers of the land use changes Into the uplands of the Mekong region Let's have a first look at the forest cover Because we are looking at these changes Through the perspective of how they affect the forest The Mekong region can be divided into Two very simple geographic entities It's the lowlands along the lower parts Of the major rivers, first of all the Mekong And it's the uplands which are more or less Fringing the peninsula of mainland Southeast Asia And when we look at a remote-centric image That shows the distribution of forests And non-forest areas, and that's quite apparent That it's actually the uplands that support the forest So whatever forest is left in the Mekong region Is basically upland forest Which differs, of course It's a highly complex phenomenon Also the countries of the Mekong region Differ from each other quite significantly In terms of forest cover Like for instance, Thailand Which is pretty much the wider forest cover As compared to Laos, which still is quite closely covered By forest, but also in terms of forest dynamics Forest cover reducing or forest cover increasing Also very important in the context of this Presentation is that we can make a very basic Extinction of forest types Between closed forests, which is a dark color here And which can equate roughly with a mature Or even natural primary forest An open and fragmented forest Which is more likely to be disturbed forest Or secondary forest that grows back after disturbances Such as for instance, shifting cultivation Which is the key word for the next slide Before the land use changes have started That I will outline in this lecture and stop it happily A dominant type of land use in this area Where the uplands of the Mekong region Was shifting cultivation Which I don't necessarily need to explain to you But just by pointing out this picture Shifting cultivation is usually a landscape That has a bad name, that has been aligned Because of the fact that farmers cut down And burn the forest in order to grow their crops But what is often overlooked in this process Is that at least in traditional rotational Forms of shifting cultivation Forest actually grows back And so shifting cultivation does cut forest But it also maintains a forest landscape In a kind of dynamic equilibrium And what is 10 years? So over the whole landscape we have a diversity Of different types of cropping And different stages of secondary vegetation Growing up over a period of 10 years or longer In cases of degraded shifting cultivation Actually shorter So the diversity or the heterogeneity Of traditional shifting cultivation As games is quite important to keep in mind here Well, as I mentioned That's basically a thing of the past Shifting cultivation has been A dominant type of land use Until the 1950s, maybe the 1960s And at least in the region of Southeast Asia That is definitely changing And this is a map from the paper That we published in 2012 And we tried to capture the global dynamics Of shifting cultivation landscapes That shows quite clearly that Southeast Asia In contrast to other areas Where shifting cultivation is practiced Is an area where shifting cultivation Declines large scale The red triangle indicates Declining landscapes It's taken two years after the village decided To shift from shifting cultivation To permanent cropping So the landscape still has a lot of the heterogeneity That is characteristic of shifting cultivation landscapes Cropping areas and different patches Of forest in different stages Of green growing But over the long run This is a photograph from North and Vietnam Some of the province Where Maze, which is these days A very important monoculture group Has basically taken over Almost completely taken over A former shifting cultivation landscape And back here We are in Shishwabana The tropical part of Yunnan province The points where I am living Where we can see one of the most Traumatic landscapes changes From shifting cultivation to something else And that is the shift towards Rubber plantations I would like to talk about this expansion Of rubber plantations in Shishwabana In a little bit more detail Because it's what we are It's a very instructive case And what we are doing Quite a bit of work on this The expansion of rubber is I think to put it very Mildly This shows the outline Of the perfection of Shishwabana And this is a map from Publication that we are just submitting These days On the expansion of rubber From 1988 to 2010 The maps give you an impression It is an expansion From 1988 with rubber plantations Took only 4.5% Of the land area of Shishwabana To 2010 Where it takes up 22% So it's a 4 fold It's also Quite instructive To study this at a smaller level At the village level Which is what we have done in another project Where we looked at the changes In a village area Between 2000 and 2012 So basically Just 12 years difference Here The light blue color Is water So that is what the landscape has changed Into before that Were rotational Grows of land rise So basically That tells you how the rubber expansion Will be another image here Which is kind of The computer The project doesn't want to accept But I can basically Explain what you should be seeing there You should be seeing A graph That's also from the same application That shows another trend That we find very boring And that is a trend that In recent years Rubber plantations have expanded Into higher and higher Altitudes The other level Of productive rubber cultivation Is around 90 meters And I would show you That since around Also 2010 Or I would say 2008 We see more rubber expanding Into elevations Of 900 meters Right up to 1200 meters And that is mostly Small and moderate rhythm Rubber expansion It's not done by the government No, this is China No, this is smaller Development and we are quite Worried about the fact That these new rubber plantations May not be Very productive in the long run And that assumption Is supported By another study that Did where we tried to calculate The net present value Of rubber plantations That's a value that we calculate Of a certain period of time In a certain location Investments and benefits And what we see again In this difference from 1988 to 2010 That is an increase In the percentage Of low value rubber plantations And a decrease In the percentage of high value plantations We kind of correlate that With this expansion into higher Altitudes Whether productivity is lower or may Actually never really come about So the expansion Is also conflicted with an Increasing risk With respect to live units Well, that's To some extent The live unit part right now Is still quite okay Farms still are a lot of money Even though risks are always There, prices falling VCs is breaking out But also with the increasing expansion The risk of declining live units Now what about the forests? This is a graph From one of the earlier FAO Overviews of Forest Dynamics worldwide Which shows in green color The areas where forest color increases In red color The areas where forest color decreases And interesting again The resolution is very good But you see the point point In our Mekong region Where you see both tendencies Side by side Declining forest cover Mainly in Myanmar But also in the lower Mekong basin Increasing forest cover In Vietnam and In large parts of China And China actually is Very famous now as the country With the fastest growing Forest cover And this graph actually shows A timeline of The development of forest cover In China which shows that Forest cover has declined up to A time of 1981 And then gradually Increased and actually quite steeply Increased now Interesting is that these changes In forest cover are coupled With policy changes now The turnaround from Declining forest cover to increase Is linked to the also responsibility system For farmers more security Over land And here this again Another policy point in 1998 The disastrous Yangtze flood Which led to the Sloping land conversion project Which provided incentives to farmers To convert farm land to forest land And actually quite a lot of the Rubber land has been created Within the context of this policy So that's what we see Is diversity, these secondary forests Compare not badly With more or less natural forests It's not to say that they can Place natural forests But it's just to indicate That in terms of biodiversity These secondary forests can be quite Valuable but we also Notice that The Secondary forests are Vanishing or Declining all over the Mekong region And also due to Economic developments Such as Expansion of rubber plantations Which does not only have In China of course In other parts of the Mekong region Very dramatically also in Laos Where a lot of secondary forests Are we can say Sacrificed for the expansion Of rubber plantations That is just summarized In a short study we did quite a while ago Where we looked at the development Of the 5 years, 1993 to 1997 And where we found that even in Really this short 5 year period Declined in secondary forests By about 2.6% Which for such a short period Is quite alarming So to sum up Upland portions Or the Mekong region Experience Is quite a Massive scale And a rapid rate Significant proportion Of land use change Is from traditional land uses To commercial land uses And a lot of them tree crop base And well We can say What this, especially when We're looking at example of rubber Is definitely an example for growth There is economic growth Conceited with the expansion of rubber And farmers are definitely Improving the livelihoods Getting a better income And even though some of this growth Can be deceptively green Because forest power Actually is increasing If you don't look too closely What kind of forest is coming up And in China for instance Rubber plantations are counted as forests So this is also a terminology So despite these Also different aspects I've also tried to outline That there are risks and dangers In the long run for land use As well as for biodiversity Thank you very much I'll pose a few reflections On these three presentations To draw some common themes But then also to raise some questions To our panelists And assuming that there will be time available We'd also like to open The floor to questions Of time remaining So Kira, if you would like to Either use the microphone there Or come up here to the podium And also to link them To some of the broader themes of the conference And raise questions about the broader themes Of the conference But let me do it more from China India, Vietnam, Thailand Nepal, Indonesia And the Philippines And we're going to be participating In Some forum at the end of This month And part of this work is funded Through the different NOFO project So this is kind of my Bitch. But backing up So on this panel of food And biodiversity at some level What we're trying to do is There's an assumption here At least I think there's an assumption here That became evident as the panelists Were talking, which is that Food production Agriculture production is That there's an inverse relationship Between food production and biodiversity conservation If not an inverse relationship At least a relationship that's not Necessarily linked together And what Boons, Chicheng And Kanji's presentations do Is they question this idea That food production And biodiversity conservation are at odds They do so from different Perspectives But what they do is Contextualize this idea That food production and Biodiversity conservation may be at odds With each other Dietrich's presentation Also draws attention To the issue of context And how this issue of food production And food security and biodiversity conservation How that's working out And at some level It shows that Precisely the kind of issues That Just possessing the kind of Approaches that we're arguably taking right now To bring these two things into sync With each other Might be contributing to the discharge Let me say that a little bit more clearly If green growth Is one mechanism by which To make food production And biodiversity conservation compatible Then the kind of things That you see in the MECOM data Which is the commercialization Or the production of commercial crops Or more cultures It's putting both biodiversity conservation And food production at risk So Because to me Is that listen to these presentations And specifically These presentations that they apply to Issues of global land Is if you're thinking about the relationship Between food production and biodiversity conservation The kind of dynamics Land use change dynamics That you see on sloping lands That they have to teach you as we think About these issues in trying to Change the relationship between Food and forests We had asked the panelists To address a few questions Many of them they already have done So and I want to raise a couple That they haven't particularly addressed But I'm posing these questions not necessarily That they answered them completely But that it generates a discussion As well as perhaps provides an opportunity For you in the audience to think About these issues So a couple of questions that we have often To address is what are the challenges Of positive outcomes associated With food and biodiversity In the current programs And again all three presentations To different Extents And also we ask them to think about What are the kind of research Priorities or research questions That they would take up As they are addressing the issues Of conservation and conservation Again those are issues that I think All the panelists in different ways Have addressed Two other questions that haven't been Addressed per se again not that they should Are what do we as researchers How do we think that we can influence policy Recently sloping lands And do we think that Stronger scientific evidence Contributes to better policy Development than if so how The other question again Which has to come Which is an important part Of this conference is Are multistakeholder Dialogues I can't say this language Because stakeholders are on Terms of money but are multistakeholder Dialogues effective When and how are they effective When and how are they not effective Do these top down Dialogues work These are some of the questions that I would Want to pose to our panelists As they think about these issues Of sloping lands And to take this opportunity Of one other issue is What are these multistakeholder approaches That are happening in landscapes In China and India How are they going on in other parts of the region And I want to end by Perhaps asking our panelists As well as the audience To think about some of the Definitions of some of the terms That we are already using For instance, what do we mean By food security? What do we mean by biodiversity conservation? What do we mean by forests? Again, if you think about Country's presentation She's drawing attention to how If colonial policies Are separated Forms versus food Now we're trying to bring it back together So what does that have to say About production systems increasing productivity So I want to use this opportunity To ask both our panelists To think About definitions of things like What do we mean by sustainable landscapes What do we mean by green economy And green growth And how to think about those definitions Help us think about the kind of Connections we're trying to make As well as the connections we're trying to break Yes, regarding the food And about diversity And the truth That food Food security in CISFP in Britain Now is not a problem As I showed you before But about diversity Because mostly CISFP is more culture Especially in the previous years So it's really Caused some difficulties Especially like digit shows In southern part of China I think In northern part of China There is a difference Because in northern part of China Over It's mostly the So big problem Are variant So the tree there Is actually increased About diversity And for the research I think For CISFP We should Do it separately Because in northern part of China The Better diversity Goes up But for southern part of China Because the natural forestry May be replaced By Something like rubber But as I know Chinese government In the previous years Already launched a lot of programs Such as Real species Like teak And other things And the government provides Free settling to farmers For them to plant it So things will become better The multi-stick holders In China We really have a different The legal system But for CISFP And it alone We really have a Government linkage Committee We have agriculture forestry And water Resources Department Combined together For Committee And also Involving all the Problems into the committee So if we meet Big cross-section Commission I will just try to ask Two questions One was about The whole politics Of multi-stakeholder dialogue I think We always get a semblance That there is multiplicity Of opinions in a multi-stakeholder dialogue But The power politics Is so different Even the language That different people speak don't match That is at one level The frameworks within which We are talking about green economy Are not necessarily understood Or necessarily have to be Trusted upon people Who have been So to say Ecosystems For generations So I think When you sit across the table There is a semblance Of multiplicity of opinions But actually that's not really taking place The other issue is Of the politics of representation They might be one or two people Who are representing In communities Farming communities Forest dwelling communities But that does not necessarily mean That it becomes a multi-stakeholder Or a multiplicity of opinions That are across the table It becomes a justice occasion to say It's been a participatory approach So there are many programs that speak The language of participation Of Everybody's opinions have been considered But one should understand The power dynamics through which These Use consents or opinions Are actually brought together The other issue is what kind of Policy interventions I think Emphasis invariably Is on conservation mechanisms And speaking to people Who we think we can influence And if you speak to communities Where you say Here's an incentive for you To go ahead and conserve Or increase productivity of the landscape How much of policy intervention Even from our side Is actually towards reducing the actual factors That are causing those fractures Or causing the degradation of the landscape I think that the balance Will much more also on Issues and policy interventions That you know because governments Whether it's globally or nationally Are constantly contradicting Their priorities On the one hand there is industrial expansion And on the other hand there is a green India ocean And forestry expansion And they're constantly At loggerheads with each other India that's a very critical issue I think I can take the two questions That Kiran asked about How to Instigate the policy dialogue And what is the value of What is stakeholder What is stakeholder forum Together I would say since I'm working In the regional context I would say It would be very different depending on the country I'm working in That it's very much a cultural But also an issue that is related To political systems If I would really try to get things Going for instance in China I think it would be rather important Also to address Top level Institutions Or maybe even first But at least also give them a priority If I work in a place like Thailand Which has a very strong civil society But also Quite strong Still to some extent Also for authoritarian structures It would be kind of a true Approach At the moment I'm starting to work in Myanmar And learning also to my surprise So definitely that would also be a way Certainly You first have to understand The context where you want to operate And then devise your strategy And That's the same thing with Multi-stakeholder approaches Again I would say That First try to understand the context Of working At one point I also Asked us to think about What sustainable landscapes Since I've tried to show a process By which formally diverse landscapes Turn into Very homogenous and very simplified landscapes That's where I see the problem And I definitely see Less sustainability In these highly specialized landscapes As the rubber landscapes And I'm still Amounted by the worst case scenario Of disease or a test Now wiping out the rubber plantations As I said In the Amazon There's nothing that the farmers Could really fall back on With extreme cases of villages Where they've given up lives And everything else Basically something like that That would have to migrate out Or something like this Trying to re-institute Some level of diversity Into these landscapes With more Dropping types Maybe a greater amount of land Dedicated to other landscapes With more options With sustainability on the landscapes Alright we have about Ten minutes if there are some questions From the floor I think we can Accept them. We would need to use The microphones for the translation So if there are questions If you can raise your hand and we can get A microphone to you These could be either There's been a lot of Discussions so far this morning About the green growth Of the green economy And especially about the whole Private sector in facilitating That green growth and I haven't heard So much from this panel about that So I'm wondering if you can tell me In the context of the sloping In the Southeast Asia What does green growth Or green economy really mean? Don't subscribe to the idea of green growth Very much so in my response Is the I might not entirely address your question But I think one of the goals the private sector Needs to really make is reduce The pressures on certain lands I think rather than speaking about Participating in forestry programs Or increasing productivity And the fundamental things is to reduce Those pressures There have been Commercial plantations Dam-building Mining Once those pressures are increased Are pressure to actually go And rebuild landscapes Probably will reduce Regarding the Green growth in China I've seen Micro-level policies For the Trans-conversion program I think The Authorization already Creates Much of The Authorization in these ways Can contribute to green growth Thank you They are often In the case of China But also in neighboring countries Where they initiate policy changes But then in the end they are largely driven Also by private sector For instance, I focus my presentation On rather Mainly on China, but of course we see now Rapid growth from plantations Also in Laos Where private investors From China, or from the island Or from Vietnam play a great role But that is mainly growth I would say there is not very much Green involved In this type of growth We will see the major challenge Actually to Introduce the idea of Making these types of developments More sustainable Thank you, my name is Mohamed Nawan From Climate and Development Knowledge Network I'm very interested in the experience In Macau It does seem to promise Because if agroforestry Is properly treated Then we can have A vision of products And traditional knowledge For instance In Sumatra There is in one entire district There is only one other person Who know how To take the resin For smatra But that can If in another district That is multi-billion Rupiah Revenue for the Government So what do you think Do you think we need To innovate more Like for instance How we make We Make incentive out of The need for energy Micro-hydro And then that is to make good For a spatial Program in bio-FCP So that's my question Have you done enough in Southeast Asia To innovate And make incentive Make benefit of the various Products from the forest Thank you I think you are definitely I would say now there is A lot more scope for innovation I mean it's Indonesia Has a lot To teach or we can learn a lot From traditional agroforestry systems With agroforestry Is considered an option For green growth Of course as a representative Of the graph I quite strongly believe in And we have also a number Of projects going on Where we try to Promote Or Discover Land use systems Which provide tree cover In order to provide landscape protection For the diversity or habitat value Or whatever But also which add to the Live yields of people We have in China for instance We have a lot of these Projects or the policies That aim primarily in this In forest cover world We are thinking much of What could be the live yields of people And we have also made Quite some progress with projects Where we tried to find out That currently this world From medicinal plants Where you can again draw a lot On traditional knowledge Or mushrooms for instance Which is a great product In China So I think there is a lot more scope In Deciding more divers And more protective land use Systems and being covered In this image