 Good morning and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Christa Burns, here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the commission's weekly online event. Yes, we are a webinar. So there. That we host every week here. The show is free and open to anyone to watch. Our live shows, which we do on Wednesday mornings at 10 a.m. Central Time. And all the recordings are posted onto our website as well, so you can go and watch them there. If you can't join us on Wednesday mornings. We do a mixture of things here, presentations, interviews, mini training sessions, book reviews, basically anything library related if we want to have it on the show. That's what we're all about here at the Library Commission. We bring in guest speakers sometimes and we sometimes have library commission staff. This week we have just library commission staff with us. Our topic this week is, well, our title is, is it copyrighted? Can I use it? Well, that's the questions that we will get. Hopefully by the end of this hour, you'll know if it is copyrighted and if you can use it. Sort of. Michael Sowers, who is our technology innovation librarian here at the Nebraska Library Commission. And then on his left there is Laura Johnson, who is our continuing education coordinator. And I'm just going to hand over to you guys and tell us everything we need to know about copyright. All right, yes, in 55 minutes or less. Okay. No pressure. So good morning, everybody. If we do go along just to warn you ahead of time. We might go a little long today. We will not be cutting off right hard at 11am central time. If we're still going, if they're still talking about stuff, or if you guys still have questions that are coming in that we want to capture and answer, we'll go into a pretty much wrapped up. Although we don't have all day because this is copyright. But just to let you know that if necessary, the session could possibly go long. If you need to leave before the end, that's fine. The recording will be posted and you can always go and watch the recording and see anything that you missed afterwards. Okay, so I'm going to get us started here. And for everybody's benefit, I'm going to go to our next slide while I'm kind of, whoops, well, I'm back up. There we go, that slide. And you're going to want to go to that URL because we're going to have some interactivity here. But I'm going to explain the interactivity in just a moment. What we've kind of done with this presentation is we've tried to create scenarios that Laura and I have come across, people asking questions about copyright. We are not lawyers. So let's just get that completely out of the way. In fact, we're probably going to go back into the slides and put not lawyers on the title slide under our names. But we do have a lot of experience dealing with these issues and reading and researching a lot about these issues and people ask us questions. And we've attended a lot of sessions like these done by others. And after a couple of them, we both kind of looked at each other and said, we need to put our money where our mouth was and do our own because there's the law. There's also opinion. And I joked earlier about it depends. We're going to talk about a lot about it depends. And to kind of raise a lot of issues, we're going to be doing some polling of you in the audience. So you've got a QR code there or the URL. If you have a smartphone or if you're on a laptop and you're on a desktop, if you want to go to your browser and go to nlc.participle. P-A-R-T-I-C-I-P-O-L-L.com. So nlc.participle.com. We are going to have audience participation through this. So for every couple of slides, we're going to present you with a new question with a couple of answers, A, B, and C. Sometimes A, B, C, and D. And we'll start the poll. We'll give everybody about 15 or 20 seconds to pick one of our choices. And then we'll show the results and we'll have a little discussion about that issue. So, Laura, did I miss anything in kind of the introduction here? No, I think this is something a little bit new, but we hope that it will be interesting to you. We thought this was a good way to deal with this particular subject. And we do want to hear from you. So not only will you participate in the polls, please, but if you have questions along the way or comments, by all means, let us know. Krista will be watching comments and yelling out the questions if you get them. I will interrupt as they like it. And in some cases we've got a lot of scenarios here, so we will kind of cut off discussion of a particular topic as we need to be able to cover everything. Okay, so here we're going to start out nice and basic. So A, B, C, or D, where is copyright codified? Is it A in the U.S. Constitution? B in the United States Code? C in the National Commission on New Technological Uses of Copyrighted Works Guidelines? Or D, all of the above? So as you can see on our slides there, we've gotten three people to answer so far. And we're going to give everybody about 10 or 15 seconds. Are people any comments coming through? No, not at all. Nine, there we go. Just something that I noticed now, and I know you were just talking. I was listening, really. So we're focusing on U.S. Copyright Law. U.S. Copyright Law. Yes, sorry. I didn't know that everybody... U.S. Copyright Law. The answer today was all from the message. But just in case anyone's watching, this is going to be focusing on U.S. Copyright. Right. Yes, please. And so we're hoping a few more of you can get to nlc.participal.com, because it looks like we've got nine people answered out of 70-some people who are logged in. And also we'll mention here real quick, as people are doing this, it's 89 people logged in. Is... Sorry, I just lost it. Most of our scenarios are kind of focusing around public libraries. Yeah. I know we've got some academics and some school libraries in here. That doesn't mean none of this applies to you, but there are some kind of special circumstances that schools and academia are dealing with that we probably just won't have time to get into some of those specifics. So, okay. So we've got nine answers so far. At this point, I'm just in the interest of time. Let's see how people answer here. And these bars should fill themselves in. Those bars are supposed to tell us who voted for what? I think A, B, and D kind of... Oh, okay. There's little tiny lines there. Okay. We need... Because we have not had a lot of votes. Nobody did see. So... Really, guys, we need to vote. Yes. Well, there is a lot of delay. There's people saying that it's lagging on registering to vote or sending comment or question. Okay. It's still processing. It's still processing? Okay. Well, we can give it another second or two. Although, I think I've already pressed the space bar. So, I don't think for this question we can get any more results to come through. Okay. So we'll hope with the next time around that it gets a little better. We are trying this participant poll thing out for the first time here live. So working without a net just a little bit. Why are we not moving along? Where is copyright codified? Well... Okay. We're having all sorts of problems here, folks. Give us a second. Yeah, I'm trying to get to the next slide. Oh, yeah. Oh, there's the next slide. Okay. Go ahead. The Constitution. So this is about as fundamental as it gets here. It's in the Constitution that there will be copyright. And this is what it says. It's one of the powers of Congress. But also... It's also in the U.S. Code, Title 17. Yep. And it's long and complicated. We were reading it yesterday. To put it mildly. Just to refresh. Contu is a group that does not... Those two things have the force of law. The Constitution and the U.S. Code obviously have the force of law. The Contu Guidelines is a sort of a trade group that got together and tried to create rules of thumb for librarians to use. So Contu has kind of codified rules of thumb. It's not the law, but it's a useful... They're useful guidelines to use. And that was the point. All of these things help us work with copyright today. Okay. All right, folks. Chris was watching the comments here. Some of you are getting an error message on participle. We might have killed it. Which we shouldn't have with only 80-some people. But we're going to try. If participle is not working for you, go ahead and type your answer into the Q&A and go to webinar and we'll kind of get a rough idea of where people think it is. So the answer to that first question was D, all of the above. All right. So here's our next question. Is this presentation copyrighted? Yes, automatically unless it says otherwise. No, I haven't seen a copyright symbol or statement. Or C, no governments can claim copyright. So go ahead. If you can get participle to work, go ahead and provide your answer there. And although I think we have killed participle, which makes our presentation a little more interesting seeing as absolutely nobody has responded that way. Or if you can put in your questions, we'll kind of get a rough idea of Chris making hash marks real quick here to see what we can do there. So A, yes, automatically unless it says otherwise. B, no, I haven't seen a copyright symbol or statement. Or C, no governments can't claim copyright. Chris, are we getting kind of a rough idea there of what we think the answer is? Most people are saying A. I've got three C's and two B's that I can see so far. OK. So most people are saying A. And that would be our correct answer. Yes. Is A, yes, automatically unless it says otherwise. And we'll go to our next slide in just a moment. When it comes to B, no, I haven't seen a copyright symbol or statement. That has not been required since 1976 with the copyright revisions there. Anything pre-1976, you probably need to see one, but probably assume it's under copyright anyway. And then C is kind of a trick answer. No governments can't claim copyright. The U.S. federal government cannot claim copyright. However, state governments, local governments may or may not be able to claim copyright. When I first got here to Nebraska, I asked our government documents librarian at the time, Beth, and she did some research and she's like, yes, the state of Nebraska can claim copyright on things. So pretty much your default answer is A. Yes, unless you say otherwise. One of the things we did want to talk about is that people working for the government say an outside entity that the government contracted with to write something may in fact create a written work or something that they can copyright. So don't assume that no government document is ever copyrighted. Some of them may in fact be depending on who really wrote it. And it also, we ourselves cannot claim copyright because we're working for an agency and doing this under the aegis of that agency. So it would be the agency that had the copyright, not us as individuals. Okay. And give us a second here. I'm trying to deal with this participle problem is actually causing problems for our slides too. So give me one second. It's making me mouse disappear. That's even nice. If I can get out of the presentation, sorry about this, folks. This is, I can turn off the software that's making participle do this, but I need to be able to get out of the presentation in order to do it. And it is not letting me do that. Okay. Stream measures are called for. Sorry about this, folks. Okay. We've turned participle off. So please don't even try anymore. And we'll go with putting your answers into the into the Q&A. Sorry about that. All right. However, there is an exception. We are licensing this presentation under creative commons. And we've done in the past Creative Commons presentations. So yes, this presentation is under copyright, but we are putting a license on top of it that says as long as you cite your source and you can reuse this for noncommercial purposes. So there can be exceptions to your default assumption of copyright, which is it is copyrighted less otherwise stated. Still is under copyright, but we've added a Creative Commons license onto this presentation so that you can reuse it. So look for something like that. We'll come back to Creative Commons and other usage rights in another couple of slots. Yeah. All right. So here we go. This is always my most favorite question. We didn't have one question. Quick question, yes? While you were doing that. Can we apply what you're saying to online documents as well as print? Yes. Yes. And in fact, so far, you know, for example, this question, we are talking about images in particular. But pretty much what we're talking about is regardless of the medium. Yes. That we're talking about. There are some special provisions for music, especially, and for video presentations. But by and large, general copyright rules apply to all media. Yeah. It will still be copyrighted less otherwise stated. Okay. So I love this question. Okay. Yes. One other question? The slides are still showing when you were, yeah, just something that's going on with the broadcast. It's not updating the slides. Okay. It's not updating the slides. Wow. This is going all real well. Let's stop showing screen and re-share the screen. Let's see if that works. Yep. Okay. There we go. Wow. You get it? All right. Okay. Is the poll still on then? Well, the graphics are there, but the poll does not work. I have turned the poll off. That's fine. I needed an image for my website, so I found a great one on Google. I can just use it, right? Yes. B. No. C. Maybe. So go ahead and pick your A, B, or C into the Q and A there. We'll give everybody a short period of time to provide their answer. Ah. Ah. Coming through nice and quick. I think we're leaning towards C's this time. Leaning towards C. Maybe. Okay. We like the maybe. Actually, maybe is a good answer for almost anything to do with copyright. Mostly C's and FUB's mixed up. Nobody said A. We haven't seen any A's. Okay. Good. You didn't say A. Now, just to kind of start, we're going to start with no. Okay. One A. Okay. The real answer is maybe, but I just want to stress really no in that if you answered A, that is just flat out wrong. Okay. Just because it's online doesn't mean you can use it. Now, it's very easy to use. It is very, people find me very liberal when it comes to copyright. But when I'm the person telling somebody, no, you can't do that. It's usually because somebody said, well, it's an online picture so I can just do whatever I want with it. Mainly because if they didn't want people to share it, they wouldn't have put it online. Unfortunately, that is highly incorrect. Just because it's online doesn't mean you can automatically use it. No, it does not. However, that doesn't mean no, you can't use it either. The correct answer here is maybe. And this is where we have to bring up the concept of fair use. Okay. The copyright law has a provision that generally writes our reserves to an author, but it makes exceptions. And the big exception is fair use. In other words, there are times when you can use things. And fair use is defined with four characteristics. And you can't, it's not whether something, whether your use has any one of them, it's the combination of them that matters. The purpose and character of the new work. And the big deal with fair use these days is transformativeness. Have you changed the purpose or the look or the, have you changed the original thing and made it part of something new that was genuinely different than what it was before? That's the purpose and character of the new work. That's an example of one of those later. Yeah. The nature of the copied work. That's part of true. Is it writing? Is it music? Is it a statue? Is it a photograph? This one's almost kind of the most nebulous of the considerations. Yeah. The amount and substantiality of the original work. If you took an entire book, that's probably wrong. But if you, a paragraph, if you quoted a paragraph out of a book, you'd be fine. If you quoted a paragraph out of a one page document, you might not be fine because that would be too big a piece of the original work. So it's not, it's sort of what the fraction was. And sometimes if you have enough transformativeness, you can use a whole work, but sometimes you can't. And I'm sorry that that sounds really, really nebulous. We thought so too. But that's what they say. And then the effect upon the original work's value. Would you effect, in effect, be preventing the author from gaining from his work if you quoted the whole thing so that nobody would then buy his work? And this is where I'm going to jump back to our no here again really quick because the other thing I've seen in a lot of discussions with people who aren't aware of these issues is well, I'm not selling it therefore it's fair use. No. Yeah. No one of those four things is going to necessarily make something fair use. Yeah. The big deal really is the transformativeness. If you have changed the character of the work, it's also, for instance, if you quote from a book while you're writing a book review or you're doing a book talk, you're probably fine. If you read several lines from a poem, you're probably fine. If you take that poem and you set it to music, that probably isn't transformative. But if you took a few lines of it and included it with more work and set it to music, that might be okay because that is transformative. You have genuinely changed the nature of it. One of the things we want to stress here, she's apologizing because basically we've just given you absolutely no answers because ultimately the only way to permanently decide if something is fair use is to do it, get sued and win in a court. Yeah. Unfortunately, most people are afraid to do that. The issue I have, and we're getting into some opinion here and kind of point of view, but recently I saw one of these infographics that was kind of a flow chart of can I use it or not. Yeah. And the order of the flow chart I thought was kind of wrong. It got into it and like is it in copyright? Yes. Can you get permission of the creator? If yes, then you're good. If no, then consider fair use. Actually, to me, that is backwards. I would say consider it. Consider whether or not your use is fair use first. If you think no, then try to get permission. Now that being said, determining whether it's fair use can be difficult. But I tend to be a little more of a, I'm being reasonable. I am aware of the issues. I have made a good faith effort to say, yes, I'm doing a transformation. No, I'm not taking too much of it. No, I'm not selling it. That is a consideration. The nature of the original work. And then kind of in my good faith judgment, I've said this is fair use. And to be honest, I'm not all that worried about people suing me for what I put on my blog. If nothing else, I'll happily take it down if they decide they want to threaten to sue me. So I think we need to maybe try to convince people that not be as fearful of fair use. Now that being said, the last bullet point that I put in parentheses, because this isn't technically fair use as an issue, but it's something you want to consider, is that's creative commons license. If some people put their stuff up and say, hey, I want to allow you to reuse this even though I have a copyright on it, and we will switch real quickly over here to the Google image search is what we're bringing up in this issue. If I search on the word library, and maybe not everybody knows this, here are a bunch of images. And this first one might be great, and that one's from Wikipedia, so actually it would be okay to use. But this one here is from Glenbrook225.org. It's probably a school. Can I use it or can I? I don't know, but I'm going to assume it's under copyright. If I really don't want to get into the judgment over fair use, I go up to search tools, select usage rights, and say just give me results that are labeled for reuse. Things that people have said you are allowed to reuse this. I can now look at these results and say, hey, these are results I can use. And you'll see a lot of them are from Wikipedia, which is mostly creative commons license content. And this is not a, we didn't mean to encourage, well, we do actually mean to encourage you to think about when you put photographs on the web, go ahead and put a creative commons license on it. If you don't mind somebody reusing it. Be sure that you are the person that has the right to do that, but help people out. If you have a picture of your library that would illustrate something about library programming, why not let people use the photo? If it's not something that you are making money for for yourself, like it's not your profession, then yeah. Would you have one comment that came in right after Laura was, before I went into you when Laura was doing her description of fair use? No, that's okay. Someone said that is possibly the best description of determining fair use I've come across. Oh, well, thank you. Well, thank you. I'm glad. Okay. Oh, by the way, fair use is, if you want to look at the code, it's in title 17 of the U.S. Code, section 107. So, and I'll throw in, if you are wanting to look for a little more on creative commons, I know there's at least one presentation in the Encompass Life Archive, which is a little, it's not all that recent. I think I did do it at least once. It might be a couple of years old, but it's still accurate. So, you can go for that. Okay, next scenario. If you use an image or quotation or clip, do you have to cite the source or give credit? A, yes, if you give attribution, then you can use it. B, yes, this is a matter of good scholarship and librarianship, not of copyright. Or C, maybe if you're using the material under a Creative Commons license. So, go ahead and type in A or C into the Q and A there, and let's see what sort of numbers we can come up with. We don't need an accurate count. It's just kind of a rough idea here. We're putting Krista to extra work here now. She's doing Admiral's work. All right, what do we got? First, we have a whole mixture of ABC. We seem to have a little battle between B and C. Okay, all right, so some A's, but kind of a half and a half B and C on one's route. Okay, so Laura, how do we want to answer this question? Resoundingly B. You are not good librarians if you are not citing your sources. Good librarians always, always, always cite their sources. I feel very strongly about this. You think? Yeah. Okay, so here's where we're going to go with this. Really, it's not A. Just giving attribution does not give you a right to use it. No, it doesn't. B, yeah, you should anyways, regardless of anything else. We're librarians. We cite our sources. And I'm just going to throw in here a citation needed. We'll go from there. If you get the joke right, if not, don't worry about it. It is also an acceptable answer because most Creative Commons licenses as part of the license say you need to cite your source. So for example, I'm using this image from Wikipedia. This content is licensed under Creative Commons. And so I have cited my source down there at the bottom of the slide. Yeah, our camera. And our camera view is kind of covering that up. We apologize. It is in the slides. So we have given what would be considered proper citation. So giving citation does not automatically clear you of it being okay. Yes, you should cite sources because you are a good librarian. C, you may be required based on certain licenses to provide a citation anyway. And if you don't, not only are you being a bad librarian in Laura's eyes, you are actually violating the license under which you are reusing that content. It is just common courtesy. Don't just take someone else's thing and just because you know, oh, I just took it from so-and-so and I know that they don't mind. That's nice. Give them credit. Be a good person. And I've had to call friends on it where they've used a picture of mine in a PowerPoint. I always hate to do it, but I do send an email to kind of say, hey, you know that was CC license. And they're like, oh, I mean, everybody's always been really apologizing. I'm sorry. I totally missed it. I will update my slides for the online version and things like that. And I think it's going to be an A depends. Can you address all of the sharing? And I take both because they quoted it in their thing. They're sharing on Facebook and how legal that is or is not. This I answer. My thought on that is, well, it depends on how you're sharing it. Many of the things that people share are actually, you're sharing a link to something. And right there, you've cited, here's where I got it from. When someone sees what you shared, you click on it and poof, it brings you to where you got it from. And right there, you send them back to where you found it out. So that you've kind of covered it. But there's lots of things where people share pictures and stuff where they just take it, put it in their photos and put it up there. And there's no link to anything but your own photos. Yeah. This is, Facebook is where usually I get the, well, it was online. I found it online. Therefore I could share it. And it's like, it's kind of iffy. I know, I don't know if Facebook has this feature, but I know Google plus has a feature where you can post something into your Google plus feed and then disallow sharing. I don't think Facebook has that. Although you can like, it was only shared with friends. And if somebody tries to share it outside of the friends, it's, well, if it's online, don't take it and say it's mine and reshare it and give yourself credit for it. You can kind of make the argument that if they didn't want it shared, they wouldn't have put it on Facebook. But I'm really hesitant of that argument because they might have only meant to share it with some people. So I kind of get back to kind of that good faith due diligence. If a friend of yours shared it with a small group of people, that doesn't necessarily mean it would be good for you to share it into the public. Well, in fact, I'm sorry, that's tacky. Well, yeah, the good faith. If someone else shared something with you, you really are obligated to ask them if it's okay for you to pass it on before you share it with anyone else. Now, if the local radio station shared a funny and you want to reshare it because you think it's funny, this is where it might technically be a copyright violation. Well, that was a broadcast. And I think if you give them credit because they broadcast it. There's different ways of sharing on Facebook. There's many times if you just use the little share link, it shows where you got it from. Even it wasn't a link somewhere else. I didn't get the person you got it from. It says via so-and-so. So right there, you've also said, hey, that's where I got it from. The thing that bothers me is when I see something cool, a picture or a meme or something. And I'm like, oh, that's neat. I want to find it where that came from. But what the person has done is they've taken that photo and just downloaded it into their own Facebook photos. So there's no link or information showing it all where they got it from originally. That is where I just get annoyed whether it's copyright violation. I'm like, but where did that come from? How do you know that's even true, that little quote you did? I want to see the real original one because I'm interested in more about this person wrote if it's an author or something. It's like chain of evidence. And you just take it and put it into your own. Well, that's again, we're talking about being good librarians and citing your sources so that people can go back and read more about it. And we're talking about good manners, which is you don't pass on something someone's told you unless you have their permission. Right. Okay. We have anything else on that one? We have some question things that are more of this. Oh, we use electronic signs inside our library. Okay. So would fair use apply easier to something that wouldn't be distributed on the internet? So it's just he's on a thing in our library that only when you walk in, you see it up there. Is that okay? So I'm going to give an opinion. And I would probably say, don't worry about it. Sight your sources anyways. Technically, might that actually be, I mean, it's not exactly transformative. You aren't affecting the market of the work. It could be parody. We'll kind of get into parody in a little bit too. This is where one of those things where if you ask a lawyer, the lawyer will probably say, yes, that's a copyright violation. Don't do it. But in my mind, there's kind of like, is there a harm? And you know, if you got it from a local photographer and you can get a hold of local, ask the local photographer if the local photographer says no, don't, or if they say, hey, you use my photo and I didn't give you permission to take it down. But I wouldn't necessarily be afraid to do it. Right. Use common sense. All right. A question about copyright inside of systems like Blackboard or E-Reserve program. Okay. That's an academic area. We are just not, we do not have the knowledge. I'll just admit this right up front. There are all sorts of special circumstances and contour guidelines. We're going to touch on ILL, which kind of gets close to that in a little bit. But yeah, I am not comfortable giving any sort of advice in that area. There are actual provisions. I mean, you do need, you actually need to go to the code and read what the actual provisions for academic uses are. And I think there are special provisions. ARL has some good documents and guidelines on that too. I would check with ARL. The Association of Research Libraries. Okay. Which I think is in our list of links. Yeah, it should be. If it's not, we will make sure it is. Okay. So here we go. Next one. Let's have a little more fun with this. Is it legal to read a book out loud at story time? All right. So A, yes, of course. It's not like anyone's ever suggested otherwise. B, yes, because it's fair use. C, yes, due to a specific exception in the copyright law. Or D, technically no, it's an unauthorized public performance. So we're going to assume you didn't contact all the authors that you're reading at story time and ask. Yeah. That's what D would be. So let's give you all a few seconds there to pick one of those. Sensing a theme, Krista. All over the board. B and C and a little D. B and C and a little D. Okay. B and C. I'm totally guessing here. Fair enough. B or C. B or C. Okay. So as soon as you walk between B and C, a few people are thinking that it's jumping down into D. Okay. So let's take this one because we, Laura and I were having a discussion around another issue as to whether or not something would be considered fair use. And I got it in my head. I'm like, well, wouldn't story time be an unauthorized public performance? I thought, why not? But then I thought, well, but you know, it's not like anybody's ever sued. Although an author's organization in a foreign country in Europe we won't mention has actually suggested that they think it's not, but we're only talking about U.S. law here. So I asked some people who know these things. And the correct answer is actually C. There is an actual exception in the copyright law. And that is here. I've got it in front of me. Make sure I'm looking at the right one here. No, I was looking at the wrong one. Section 110 labeled limitations on exclusive rights exemption of certain performances and displays. And section four of that says the performance of a non-dramatic literary or musical work. So not a play. We're talking a children's storybook. Otherwise than in a work, otherwise than in a transmission to the public without any direct or indirect commercial advantage and without payment of any fee or other compensation for the performance to any of its performers, promoters, and organizers if there is no direct or indirect admission charge. And then there's an or, but we're going to assume you're not charging for story time. Basically if you are not charging for story time and you are reading a non-dramatic literary or musical work, you're good. So there is an exception for story time. And little bunny foo foo is saved. Yes. So now I do recall that there was a like if you were going to then make a recording of it and put it out there, that might be an unauthorized presentation. I know somebody was going to read a story for audible I heard and they ended up reading a generic version of the story because the story was still under copyright. I will mention the name of the story. So basically story time, you're good. There is an exception that covers you in the copyright law. So fair use isn't even an issue in this situation. But it seems like we have some questions or comments. I can see you by Krista's face. What if you record the story time and then put it online or use it somewhere? That might be a problem. Yeah. What I will say is that is not covered by this exception. So that being said, I'm not going to tell you don't do it but you really need to start considering whether or not you can do that. Now I know in the past there might need to be some more research done here. Libraries used to do recorded story time over the telephone. Yeah. Okay. I think sometimes they still do now. So I'm not, we kind of stopped at live story time. There are exceptions in this particular section. It's section 110. Section 110. Of Title 17. And it gets very, very specific. They start talking about the communication occurs as 2000 or more gross square feet of space. Really, it's very, very specific. So if you want to make recordings or anything, I think you really need to delve into this. But if you just want to, in the library, read a story to the kids, you're fine. Yep. Okay. Someone's planning a puppet show. You know, a puppet show. Certainly they have music or use a storybook plot. I guess that sounds like kind of making up their own. In that case they would be dramatizing the literary work and you're now just doing story time with puppets. I'm thinking you're okay. I'm thinking you're okay. Don't charge. I'm thinking if it's actually a play that's in copyright, you're not okay. Yeah. It doesn't sound like it's using music or storybook plot. Sounds like they're going to come up with their own kind of thing that's being used. I think that's okay. And remember then transformative. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And see, if you're doing, even though Shakespeare's out of copyright, you're performing Shakespeare, that was written as a dramatic work to be performed. The Hungry Caterpillar was not written as a dramatic work to be performed. It's a story. And if you want to have a guitar player come in and strum some chords along while you do it or show some puppets, you're pretty much okay. Yeah. Now the moment you charge or the moment you start recording, then you get into weirder scenarios. Yeah. Okay. Because actually the law does go on to say, if you do charge but only to cover expenses, then there's a whole other set of rules. But we're just going to assume you're not charging for story time. Usually. Yeah. But if you're doing more than just reading the book, you need to look at the law because it does have a lot of really specific things in it. So you need to really just take a look at it, okay? Yeah. And I've got a link to the copyright office of the entire text of the law. So you'll be able to get to that. There's one more on this topic. And I'm not sure. Are you going to go on to when library show movies? Yes. Yeah. Okay. We'll hold off on that one. Okay. And then the other thing that came up earlier, which I think this, because we have this photo up here right now, someone wanted to know back when you're talking about fair use, what about pictures from Slicker? And I think the answer for that is to make, well, here you can see we've cited it. Right. And in Slicker, people can decide on the copyright level of their photos. Yeah. Just look and see. Do you have a free frame for anyone who uses it, say reserve or not? Does it say they do have one? So you can make it a copy or a, you can get a comments license you want to. So just look at the photo you want to use and see what that person has decided to license their photo as and just follow it. Just as Google had a search where you can limit your search to only things you can reuse Flicker does to you. It's the advanced search. You can limit to reusable photos. And I use that. It's how I found this photo. Yeah. All right. I have to go on now. A patron told you she's taking home CDs, making copies and returning them. What should you do? A, nothing. It's none of my business. B, sit them down and have a little chat about copyright that let it go. Or C, have that chat. And if they keep doing it, cut them off. Give everybody a little time. This one's a little less clear maybe. Looks like, well, there's some comments. Sure. Mostly we're going between B and C. Okay. About both, a little of both. And then a few for A. Okay. And then some specific comments. A is what I do in reality. Okay. I'm not sure what that means, but what you think you should do. And you're probably supposed to do B, but we usually do A. Okay. It's just an offensive comment. All right. Yeah. So is the patron violating copyright? Yes. Is it your responsibility? Now let's keep in mind, we're generally talking public libraries who do not have an educational mandate. Okay. So those of you who are in academics or schools might have a different answer. But, and I think Laura and I are agreement with this. We're going with A. You know, Christa kind of stuck her fingers in here with la, la, la, la, la. And it sounds like some people are basically doing the same thing going, well, that's what we do, but maybe we should do something else. No, that's what you should do. Yeah. It's, it's, now if they're doing it in the library, maybe there's another situation, maybe you want to say, you know, look, really don't be doing that in the library. But if, if, I, yeah, I'm hesitating here because there is no, like in the copyright law it says that the library must stop people from violating copyright. Yes, we have photocopiers and we generally have that sign up that says, hey, you might be violating copyright, but if you don't have that sign up, put it up. It's, it's then the patron's responsibility to, to follow the law. Now I've heard Carter arguments is like, well, if they're breaking the law, like beating the heck out of somebody in the library, we call the cops. Okay, fine. There's some immediate harm there. And yes, there are things we tell people not to do that are against the law. But when it comes to copyright, if nothing else, even I, with all I know about copyright, would not necessarily have the comfort level to sit down with an individual patron and try to explain to them under the copyright law why what they're doing is wrong. Some comments here actually do that too, saying unless, do you even have proof that they're really doing it? They could be just spouting off and saying they are and they're not. Well, that's why I wrote the question is they told you they're doing it. They told you, but they may be just joking and saying, I'm just taking copies of all your stuff. Well, do you know that they are? Right. I think it may, I mean, you said, hey, just do nothing and let it, you know, that's up to them. And that's true. But I would think depending on the patron, how you know them, it may be a chance for a learning, a teaching moment to just, if it's someone who you feel comfortable of saying, you do know that that's illegal, right? Here's some info, go on your way. Because it is our responsibility to educate them as well as what things that they can do. But no, it's not your responsibility to make sure they stop and say, oh, I can't give this to you now because you're doing that. But you can, you know, depending on who it is, the situation, you'll feel it out, you know, your patrons, you know, you're not really supposed to do that. You're breaking copyright. Yeah, so see, though, really makes me nervous in the library judging that what people are doing with the material when they get home and then cutting them off is just. Isn't it our responsibility to inform them about copyright? Like you said, have the signs up that say there's copyright law. It is our responsibility to follow it or not. It is our responsibility to have a sign up that says, you know, making copies may or may not be legal because. Someone says, one of my patrons claimed that as a taxpayer, he is part owner of the CDs. That's creative. You know what? Yeah, let's not go there. We don't want to know. Yeah, right, yeah. Really, you don't want to know. All right, next one. May the library use one of the director's monthly newspaper columns in our library newsletter. So the scenario is public library director writes a monthly column about what's going on with the library. And can we reprint that on the website for the library? So A, yes, as long as the library's director is OK with it. No, the newspaper owns the copyright and the library may not use the material without permission or see maybe what does the contract say? So A, B or C, basically we got a yes, no or a maybe here. Yeah, we're all about the C. We're all about, OK, fine. Let's just go about that. Yes, it is all about the C. A few A's and B's tossed in, but we're almost there. Yeah, it's all about the contract. The director is doing work for hire, potentially. No, let's assume there is a contract. Really, at some point, you know, maybe it's, we got a lot of small towns here in Nebraska. There may just be, hey, director, send us this. Well, if there's no official contract, get something in writing that says, you know, you can, who owns the copyright? Hey, when I'm doing this, I'm also doing this. Is that cool? Or let's make an agreement that, you can also put it in our own stuff as well. You want an agreement. And this has to do with who owns, who has the copyright if you're doing work for hire. And generally it's the person who's paying who has the copyright. Although that can be negotiated. But you can negotiate it. This is why if you get someone to do work for you, you should have a little agreement with them about who owns the copyrights for this. In fact, my last book contract, it said by default when they sent it to me that the publisher would be listed as the copyright owner. And I kind of wrote back when, you know, I'd rather be me and my co-author. Can we do that? And they went, okay. Now, according to the contract, they still have the rights to publish it. And I can't just, you know, set it free on the internet and things like that. But, you know, the copyright is mine, but the contract goes on to then say, who can do what? Yeah. So, you know, just even if you don't have an official contract, small town, send an email to whoever you send it into, say, hey, is the newspaper cool with me doing this? Even if you don't want to get into who owns the copyright, just get it okay. And then if it ever becomes a problem, you've got, hey, we've got this agreement here. What you want is to avoid a problem. Yep. So any further, no comments there? Okay. Everybody liked that one. Okay. If my library requests a photocopy of a magazine article through interlibrary loan, maybe request another article from the same issue it got in six months. So we're getting a little complicated here. Yes, no. Or maybe how many have you already requested? This is where I want to, like, call Linda. Actually, we consulted with Linda, our ILL person from the state of Nebraska here on this one. We're going for C here. We're going for C. A is tossed in. Okay. Yeah, the answer is C. And there's our cat picture. We had to have a cat picture in there. Laura, you want to take this one? Okay. The interlibrary loan guidelines are from CONTU. So remember we talked about the Constitution, the U.S. Code, and CONTU. CONTU is the one that has the interlibrary loan guidelines. And they say that you can request, in a calendar year, you can request two articles from an issue of a journal. So if you've only requested one, if you've only requested one that year, yes, you can request another one. If you've requested the photocopy, but you requested four more before that, then no, you can't. You shouldn't have requested those four. So it depends on how many you've gotten. You also can get, there are some very specific numbers and guidelines that the interlibrary loan people kind of conform to. And again, this does not really have the force of law, but this is, it's a workable guideline because you got to have something. The deal is that it's the people who ask the requester who has to keep track of how many times they've requested. The lender can lend as much as they like. So if you're requesting photocopies, you need to keep track of how many, when you requested them from what magazines and even from what issue of the magazine. Comments, questions? If you're willing to pay copyright fees. Yes. Then you can request all you want. Then you can request more and you can go to the Copyright Clearance Center or some other things. This is something you can do about having to pay for free. For free. If you choose to pay the fees and go through that way, then you can do whatever you want. That's a good comment. Thank you. Again, it's the requester who is responsible for tracking that and paying it, not the lender. Right. So if you see someone asking you for the issue, articles over and over again for the same issue, keep sending because it's not your responsibility to keep, to make sure that they're, they may be doing everything properly on their side, paying copyright fees, doing whatever they need to do on their side. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So Karen Schneider took that picture. That's nice. Okay. May we use a copy of the book cover to put on a flyer for our book club? We will also throw in here maybe in the catalog or on the website. Yeah. A, no, not without specific permission. B, yes, this falls within the doctrine of fair use. Or C, yes, this is a useful article. Laura had the roughest time with this one and we may have a slight disagreement, but so I'll start when we get to the answer and then if you want to. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. So let's see what sort of... B. B. Okay. Everyone say it in B. Okay. Except for a few C. A few C and a few A. Okay. All right. This is a rhetorical question, but okay, if you answered A, my follow question to you would be, from whom would you get permission? Would it be the artist, the author, the publisher, the... Okay. So really it's not A. Okay. It's also not A because the example I like to give is just, if you read Publishers Weekly, Publishers Weekly, I have not confirmed this with them, but I'm educated assumption here that they do not ask every single publisher or author of any book they've ever reviewed whether or not they can include an image of the dust jacket with the review. I can't see every possible magazine ever doing that. Okay. So in fact, here's my example from Publishers Weekly. I don't think they contacted those publishers. In fact, they had a section that was reviews of self-published content. I don't think they contacted those hundreds of authors directly to do it. My answer is C. There is a small section of the U.S. code, section 113, that is labeled Scope of Exclusive Rights in Pictorial, Graphic and Sculptural Works. And it says, In the case of a work lawfully reproduced in useful articles that have been offered for sale or other distribution to the public. So the book has been offered for sale to the general public. Copyright does not include any right to prevent the making, distribution, or display of pictures or photographs of such articles in connection with advertisements or commentaries related to the distribution or display of such articles or in connection with news reports. So the book has been put up for sale. You can take a picture of it or photograph of it, scan whatever of the item itself because you are reviewing it or advertising it for the fact that you have it in your collection. So as far as I'm concerned, if I write a review on my blog, I can use an image of that book because the book's been up for sale to the general public and I am reviewing it. I say you can use this to cover your catalog. Now I will throw in one other thing here. Some of you may be paying a service to provide those images for you. You're not actually paying for permission to use those images. You're using, you're paying for the service to supply you with those images. So library thing charges libraries to get images from them but it's because you're using their server to get those images from them or you're using Amazon service to get those images but nothing can stop you from taking a picture of the book that just came in or scanning it. You can use these images because you are doing an advertisement or commentary on the item itself. Can you say again where this is? This is 17 U.S. Code section 113. 113C. Yes, 113C. And this was again pointed to me by somebody when I asked the question and they're like I'm a copyright person it's covered here. Laura have I convinced you you were kind of a little iffy on this one this morning? Well when they define useful article I tried diagramming the sentence just to see if I could make sense out of it and I was not successful. They say a useful article is an article having an intrinsic utilitarian function that is not merely to portray the appearance of the article or to convey information. Now if anyone else can parse that sentence let me know. I would argue that the fact that you're advertising it or reviewing it is the utility. I'm not actually arguing that you shouldn't use the book covers I in fact think you should use the book covers in your in your catalogue I think they enhance the catalogue I think they are a positive thing about the book I can't imagine somebody objecting to your essentially advertising your book. So I would say go ahead I'm just saying that I didn't quite understand this law. Questions or comments? We're going to we're going to truck along here. May we enlarge one of the illustrations from a book and paint it on the wall of the children's room as a mural? A, know that stealing B, yes fair use C, maybe if the illustration is old enough to be out of copyright. Or you could get permission. Yeah we could probably have a D get permission there. Yeah We're going to all say C is the answer. Okay yeah pretty much. There are exceptions which we've kind of barely touched upon but maybe if it's out of copyright yeah you're golden so that is the best answer out of our choices here. Okay and this brings up what is in the public domain. And that's complicated too of course basically anything published before 1923 is in the public domain. After that the answer is it depends. Yeah That's pretty much what we can guarantee. And then depending on when the laws changed the copyright copyright today is the life of the author plus 70 years. So it's like a very long time. Unless the author is a corporation then it gets weirder. So there's yeah we're trying not to do that flow chart here because that would be nasty. Now a couple of examples though okay I want to bring up parody here and I this I stumble across if you painted the mural of the Disney princesses kind of as they are up on the wall yeah you're going to have a problem. Okay but this person who did all of the Disney princesses as oranges the new black characters that's parody. Yeah they're they're they're Disney may not like it but they're pretty much covered under it's not technically fair use it's parody. Because it is transformative it's it's it's not necessarily affecting the market. But if you got sued for it a judge may or may not decide that it is. And Disney's got more money than you. Yeah now the interesting one over there on the right Harold and the purple crayon I just want to bring this up this is hanging at the local community college out in public and you can't read that the banner underneath the banner but it's it's basically like an elementary school art class. That is a copyright violation now I hope that whoever the author of Harold and the purple crayon or the illustrator would not sue a bunch of fourth graders but yeah just if you put that up on the library wall or if you if you hung that in the library the library would probably be okay but if you had that painted onto the wall of the library that would be bad. I don't know how old Harold is. Well if unless Harold's on a copyright that is possible. And it's also isn't transformative enough. I would probably argue against this. I don't know that it is or not but that's where you have to go. And then you discovered Eric Carle says if you go to Eric Carle's website he'll tell you if you want to make a mural to please send him the plans and he'll okay them or not. So if you can check if you can check with the author you might be able to check and you might be fine. So it again you know it depends. After some of these authors will be happy to talk to you about it many of them are big supporters of libraries in schools and if you say hey we want to do this good thing many of them will say oh that's so cool yes or they'll say like him let me see what you're going to do so I can say if I think it's okay or not but they're not outright so if you're doing a zombie caterpillar maybe he'll say no. So you just people are saying Harold was published in 1955. Okay so there's a good chance Harold is still in copyright because the rules in 55 were different than now so okay we're going to move on here because we are definitely running long. Yes we have reached our hour officially for Encompass Live. We usually go 10 to 11 a.m. Central time but we are going to keep going until we're done with the slides. Two or three more questions. We're wrapping it up here. Okay here's the movies one somebody asked about the library. The library may show a movie at a library program. That's vaguely poorly phrased, apologize. Yes, no more maybe. May the library show a movie at a library program. There we go that might be a better way to do it. We're going to say C is the answer, except if someone put in the answer of D, damn the final. There you go. That's why you're here. Okay the answer is C maybe and we've got the MPAA logo in there. So Laura you want to cover this? This is actually your department. In Nebraska the Nebraska Library Commission actually pays a service for licensing permission to show particular movies in the library. But it is a very long list. It is a long list. There are particular things you can and can't do. You have to do it in the library for instance. You can't show it on the outside of the library. You can't show it in the town hall. It has to be in the library. There are some other requirements and this is on our website if you need to look at it. But public libraries do have, oh and you can't charge you cannot charge admission fees. You could sell popcorn. So there are also restrictions someone asked about the advertising Yes there are. Under our license. Now remember licenses are essentially contracts. So they are negotiated. But this is a license that we pay for all of the libraries so they all can be legal. And so show movies. Do it. It's going to be cool. But don't just pull a DVD off your shelf and you know, oh that's everything. You don't have to own the movie. You could borrow the movie from your brother-in-law and that would be fine. As long as it's on the list. And the advertising people are saying is you can't mention the name of the movie outside of the library. On advertising within the library building you can, which also means you can't on your website say we're showing Frozen tonight at 7pm. You could say that in the library but not on your website. We're not completely sure. To which there is a church by where I park every single day. And they are showing Frozen in a week outside. And I almost want to knock on the door and say I don't want to give them a hard time. But I really wonder are they just doing it? But they've got a sign in the church yard saying Frozen Thursday night. For this particular case I haven't seen this for years there too. I would hope so. I would hope so. I think one of the things that we know as the neighborhood event professionally made signs may put up that they post around the neighborhood saying what the movie is going to be that month. So I think it's something they would wish. For public libraries you have to have permission. There are exceptions about showing movies in classrooms. And you want to get into the law if that is the situation. This is simply the situation. So you can provide by and in Nebraska you can look on the Nebraska Library Commission website to see and call Sally Snyder if you have any questions. And I would say if you're in another state and you're not sure, contact your state library. They may not do exactly what we do but they should know who you need to talk to. They do this in Kentucky and in Kansas they use something called movie licensing USA. So I'm going to put a link to that in here as well. There's licensing due to all school. I just wrote the site. And licensing for public library. And another comment someone just says it's a church. They may be exempt from everything. I don't think frozen's religious. We're talking the MPAA here. They are Disney that they might be. Maybe. I'm not saying no but I would be skeptical of them being exempt. Okay. This is I think our last one. Okay. All right. So because this is I get uptight about certain things and Laura gets uptight about this one. Well, you need to understand this because I think there are some misapprehensions. Let's just say cut to the chase and say the answer is all of the above. So for the purpose of the recording what is the difference between copyright and a trademark? A copyright is automatic. As soon as you create a work it is essentially copyrighted. A trademark you have to apply for. The U.S. Copyright Office is part of the Library of Congress. That's where you go to get and there's a big nice website there. It's www.copyright.gov. The trade for a trademark that's part of the U.S. patent and trademark office. So we have three different kinds of intellectual property. Copyright, patents and trademarks. Copyright protection is yours by right. You just get a copyright and you have the copyright as long as the copyright lasts. A trademark has to be defended. If somebody is, that's what the poor Kleenex people, you'll never hear an advertisement for Kleenex that just says it's Kleenex. They always say it's Kleenex tissues because Kleenex is a trademark. And if they don't protect it, if they don't defend it, it can move into general use, that's what happened to aspirin. That's what happened to cellophane. They weren't defended and so they moved into general language. So a trademark has to be defended. So if you used for instance a trademarked say some little cartoon figure was trademarked and you used that trademark, they'd have to go after you for it. So don't do that. Copyright is just kind of blanket with these few like fair use exceptions. Trademarks are only good within certain categories. So you can have a brand of tire and a frozen dinner that both use the same name. I don't know why they would. But you could do that because they're in different categories. So trademark just a look. But you also trademark it doesn't have to be exact. It just has to sound like it or be very similar to it to not be allowed. Trademark is a whole different thing. We're talking about copyright here but I just want you to understand that they are two different things and be careful of using trademark stuff because they have to go after you if you're an unauthorized use of a trademark whereas with copyright there are fair use and some other exceptions. And if somebody doesn't sue you for copyright infringement they don't lose their copyright. Yeah, but with trademark they can lose their trademark if they don't sue you. But this is kind of this is the whole thing about Mickey Mouse who's copyrighting their trademark. Any questions on this topic? Because you had that one other one that was. So what was that other question? I want to know how how do I get a Creative Commons license? Okay, there are several ways for example if you upload something to Flickr part of the upload is I want to set a license on this. Well, I think actually I want to come back up before you say that kind of thing. The question says how do I get one where what I'm getting the impression from this person is they think they need to apply to get a license to license something and you have to get a copyright and you have to apply and say I've done this. Creative Commons is actually the exact opposite of that. You do not have to apply to have someone approve you for it. You just say you're doing it. You say I am the one who says I am putting this it's one of those it's would open source be a It is an open source it is an open source licensing scheme you decide that you want to do Creative Commons and you want to apply that to your work that you have put out that you don't have to ask them for it. They just put this out there for everyone to use and you just you have something you have created and you want to license it in one of their many ways. You just say I'm doing this if you have the right to share so you have to have the copyright before you can put a creative comments on it. Like I take my own photos and put them into my own Flickr account and I decided what kind of Creative Commons license she says yes so you just claim it for your item yeah you do yeah you just do it it's all up to you as the actual owner of the item itself did you write this story yourself and you want to Creative Commons like did you take this photo yourself it's not someone else's and I'm just going to interject here the person who did the image on the screen right now the CC we know her she's a friend of ours she's here in Lincoln Nebraska that's Karen's over here on the left wow we know Karen she's been on the show anyway it's just a little more if you want more information on what options are available for Creative Commons go to creativecommons.org there is license how can I license my work it will there there's a process if you want help in deciding what kind of license you want to use and if you want to get some like HTML code to put in your website things like that but you can just decide I want this kind of license and then state it with the conduct there's no office or department that you have to apply to Creative Commons license like with copyright and trademark it's not anything like that at all it's not run by anything in the government it's actually it was just it is a non-profit organization or it's less they can it's a way to share yep okay that actually wasn't screen alive so yes that was our last question there are there will be a show specific links in the show notes that will go out that you are that delicious you are all there is just to kind of the commissions copyright resources links that that are already available and we will add some of these also and in this case like you see right here we've just put whoops back up CC buy and see which means we put a Creative Commons license on this please do reuse it non-commercially and give us credit that is an example of Creative Commons license yep we've just done it on your stuff yep we will happily take any other questions via email or what not we'll do our best to provide you with our opinion if nothing else because it can't be legal advice what Laura and I also suggested then we'll wrap up see if there are any other questions there if you have scenarios that you would like to see used in a future edition of a presentation such as this send them in at the moment we have not scheduled a future session it will kind of depend on what suggestions and what sort of feedback we get from this one but we are kind of willing to consider doing another one hopefully the polling software will work next time so if you've got just like hey this would be great scenario for another session like this send it in we'll keep track of those and we'll see if maybe we can do another one of these in the future because it seemed like it was a topic that people are interested in we have a lot of signups on the other hand you know if it gets too hard for us maybe we'll see if we can find somebody who knows a little more but the last thing I want to say is just don't be afraid to reuse stuff as much as whenever somebody asks a question I see the answer well I'm not selling it so it's okay that drives me insane I am equally insane when somebody says by default ask a lawyer or get permission because you don't always have to do that don't be afraid just be educated and you know put a good faith effort into what you're considering are there any other outstanding questions that you think we might need to address before we wrap up? ideas for the next one okay we'll pull them from there send us an email just so you know here does get captured afterwards in a spreadsheet that I can spit out from our GoToWebinar interface so keep tipping away and we'll take a look we hope that we kind of have fun with this it did get more complicated than we thought it was going to be when we started but you know we hope that it was good for you too well we didn't get into any debates on the show with a copyright lawyer so that's a good sign if they didn't come into the show or they didn't decide to say anything or we're vaguely right okay so that's good so thank you everybody and we'll hand it back to Kristen pop over to the firefox and then GoToWebinar alright so thank you very much for attending our Encompass Live this week it has been being recorded so it will be available later today maybe for your viewing again or you can share it with your colleagues if they weren't able to join us today this is our Encompass Live website as I said we have our live shows here and our archive shows that are available and free for anyone to watch so please do go here and this is where the archive will be of this show and I hope you join us next week when our topic is engaging writers with a community novel project this is something that the library and Dupika and Shawnee County Public Library did this community novel project where members of the public wrote a book online actually they've done it two maybe three times I can't remember I asked so Melissa and Miranda Miranda from Dupika and Shawnee County Public Library will be on the line with us next week to talk about their community novel project and if you are a Facebook user Encompass Live is on Facebook so do please like us there and you will get notifications of when new shows are coming up when recordings are available when the show is starting there's one that I just posted up this morning saying pop in right now and join us other than that thank you thank you all right so thank you very much for attending and we'll see you next time and on future episodes of Encompass Live bye