 Sharon please August 23rd 2018 planning commission meeting like to welcome everyone here this evening We have no amendments to the agenda correct perfect First thing might as well get it done over there if you folks are going to offer any comment this evening Please stand any if you're going to open your mouth and talk to us, please stand How's that? You swear that any testimony you present this evening will be truthful to the best of your abilities Thank you First item next item on our agenda is public comments And this is normally where we would entertain comments from the public on anything. It's not on our agenda We also have a consent agenda item tonight which is a Request to re-approve a subdivision approval from 2016 So within the public comment section will also take and entertain any Public comments commissioner comments or questions on the consent agenda item Hearing none. I will move on to the next item, which is the actual consent agenda item Which is a final plan amendment Linda Leclerc quest to re-approve an October 27 2016 five-lot subdivision approval This is in order to file a corrected mylar There was no comment so is anyone willing to able to offer a motion on the consent agenda second Moved by shoe seconded by John He came with Jay either way All those in favor aye. I posed motion carries 70 Wow cool Sharon, I'm gonna start this around now. Sure. Great. Thank you Okay, we are now on to the ETC next master plan discussion Dana, how you doing great? They got for us tonight. Hey, um, you got five minutes This is your night to talk about the ETC plan some thoughts That I put in a few bullet points were your reactions to the form-based code stuff the plan in general Dennis's comments and I sent you the the schedule for the project that's been negotiated with the The consultants and that needs to be signed by the town manager and So I just thought this would be your night to just Get down and talk about the ETC plan. So just And Anybody can tell me to shut up at any point I didn't ask I was gonna listen to be honest to you I know Ned had a lot of comments that he wanted to share I'd like to start I'd like tonight to start high level And identify the things that we want maybe want to drill into And maybe if we don't do drill tonight, then we do follow-up sessions on detail I want to make sure we have a good idea understanding of what maybe a global under saying high-level review to start with The other item Was the schedule so maybe we should talk about the schedule just for a couple minutes yeah, because You mentioned consultants and sign off and so so there's there's actually some some dollar targets and monetary investment that we're doing based on that you bet and So this is the schedule that Has been sort of hammered out As you can see there are all these tasks a lot of the things that Ned You know has had pointed out that we need to cover our in here Review the neighborhoods and district review your site criteria review connectivity criteria open space recreation review architectural form and character review uses and densities is one that planning commission is going to be really engaged in this and We are proposing a One meeting a month just on this It's going to start in September September 27th and go until April or I don't know and that's that's one week in a month with the consultants or one we can one weekend. Yes One weekend a month That is my go ahead and finish before I comment you can go ahead and finish. No, I'm just I want to just to make sure we have awareness that the consultant hours. That's the paid Process that's the the part we're contract. We're actually contracting with them For those nights, and that's one week one night a month one of our one meeting a month now Can we I know we talked a little about this, but can we also Include a standing item on the other meeting Absolutely for us to bring things up. It can't when you when we meet with the consultants and there's overflow There will be a spot on it In the next agenda two weeks later So the law you'll always have a chance to I mean, this is going to be a continuous So I think that's a key point for us that that we will potentially have something at every meeting To touch on and it may be because I know we've had the times before we wanted to talk about things without the consultants being there to get a consolidated Opinion or discussion without necessarily a directed discussion by them So we will have an opportunity as Follow-up at every meeting at every meeting which is a pretty aggressive schedule It's about as fast as it can get I'm looking at the schedule, and I can't believe that's as fast as it can get we've been dealing with this for a year and a half already and I Can't believe number one that the consultants are going to assign someone to work on this project Completely, and I don't know what what we're paying them Day in day out for the next year plus it just seems like There's got to be some way to compress that we're gonna have Etc fatigue by the time we ever get around to seeing this happen It's it's just way too long. You know, you know, I think we've already lost Because of the gaps between when they've made presentations and where we're finally are tonight We've lost a whole lot of the momentum on this, you know, sorry if I'm impatient, but that's just the way I am and But I think we've got it. I think this has got to be faster I think we need to and if it means if it means we meet for a whole weekend. We meet for a weekend Well, that's not gonna happen Okay I'm guaranteeing you that I Would like to say I mean I think I respect the the effort that Dana's done Dana and team have done to put this in play And we're bringing in schedules that aren't just ours. I mean, I don't believe the consultants are exclusively working on this I wouldn't see them doing that. So we're we're fitting around multiple schedules I'd like to see, you know, where we can go with this and if if we feel When we're doing this and we're on section a and we feel that we need another full meeting on this We'll schedule another full meeting. Maybe not with the consultants But I think it's always been within our purview to schedule us a work session And if it's a work session, it doesn't require the the same level of Announcement and so forth we can do those on a on a more rapid turnaround. So John I just wanted to What is your primary concern with it with the length of time? I mean one of the things we have to be sure of is that you get ample participation not just from us I think yeah, I think you know, we have a lot of tail end stuff so that the the sooner we can Put this plan in place. I think the better the better it is before we know miss the development window like Development window In the entire market within the next year could collapse and no one's going to build anything though I agree with you But I think that one of the things you have to be concerned about is that you have enough participation Not just from the planning Commission and interacting with the consultants and staff But also we have enough time to warn people in the town that they want to be involved because this is going to impact a lot of people So I'm not arguing with you. I'm just I'm just saying that's fine I you know, I understand that I could see it taking time to get through this thing and The nice cadence is probably a good way to do it. I guess I'm just saying is I Personally am a little frustrated at the base. I thought I got it. That's so one of the things. I mean In my world you you take a plan and it's a starting point and Plans evolve planes change and you adjust so there may be sections on here I mean, we're starting on this 91 is 91 is the earliest date that I see on here In that in draft regulation. So we're already doing something within two weeks So I'm I'm I'm not seeing that this is that this is slow I would like to think that that we are approaching this with some flexibility Contractually, maybe we can't have that level of flexibility with the consultants But we also can't necessarily anticipate what we're going to need to push them or back off We may fly through some of these things And if we do then I'd like to accelerate, you know, assume that we could accelerate the schedule a little bit If we're coasting through some of these sections There's there's there's little discussion or there's little dispute or whatever. We're in agreement then that we bump things up Um But we do have to have a starting point and there's no way that we can't we can You know get anything done without having a a a plan to start with So, I mean, I'm I you're going to end up driving a lot of this if you're not careful, so I assume then say we have a meeting scheduled on a 9 27 I assume that Duke time before that meeting we'll have Something from the consultant to look at so that we can discuss it Or will that be the first time we see what their proposal is to discuss which means then we put it off We may be you know seeing it good first time. I I think I think that's You know, so we don't come in cold and hear it for the first time But so that may be also be some of what we can do in that in the Standing portion on the other meeting not just to follow up from the consultant discussion two weeks prior But also to to set the expectation for the consultants meeting two weeks following So I think that you know, we can utilize that time period to Maybe we don't see it. Maybe we don't have a lot of detail on but at least we're expecting You know next we have an expectation of what's coming You do have the plan in front of you that to look back to it when you start looking at some of those categories and topics So can at least think about what that might involve Because that if we use that session if we use that that standing block on the regular meeting We can identify concerns. Hey give the consultants a head up This is this is something that I've been looking at I'm overly concerned about this So I want to bring focus so we can also help steer some of their presentation and and And some of that discussion at the following meeting But that gives us some flexibility to help, you know, maybe accelerate this as we get into it because you may find that the rest of us are The rest of me gets a little thick on some of this stuff. You guys are probably not going to be But it may be that we need to slow down or we need to keep a slower pace to begin with until we get A feel for what's what we're looking at So I think if we my personal opinion is if we start with this structure We have to have some structure to be able to to contract with the consultants. That's a given One meeting a month consultant time, you know, that's that's That's a lot I'm not sure how you do the contracting but it may be good to have a clause in there that if we You know are going to push something off that we may have to adjust the schedule and make sure that there's the ability to make modifications to the schedule going forward But we got to start someplace And I have a feeling that once we get rolling in this some of this stuff is going to fly through Without having to do a heck of a lot of You know digging and if we do find that we're circling the drain at one night, then we schedule another meeting To dig into it Maybe we build in Dana. Maybe we build into the contract two extra floating nights with them You know just something that Oh one floating night or whatever, but the ability to to add something if we if we really feel we need to Um Or if we're giving them enough, maybe they just give us a couple meetings gratis You know if if we're doing we're contracting with them for this Maybe they just say you'll have two ad hocs if you need them I say too, but Does this plan and schedule assume resolving the issues and questions raised That's going to be on a much different time frame that's going to involve Grants and select board and all sorts of things So the fundamental question I kind of have been asking myself and maybe you already know the answer to this is You know, how how do you march the etc plan forward given some of the major Cost and infrastructure hurdles and obstacles raised by public works I think you have to write it into the plan as a caveats And we're going to hopefully get dentists in here Um Some of it is more serious than other stuff This is the first time since I've been here that we've had a plan process going on with the potential infrastructure And financing discussion with the select board. So this is really The most dynamic And Dennis Dennis isn't you know, he's not the enemy He's going to work with us and so we want to meet with him and get him in front of you guys and He's going to tell us what the issues are and he's going to help us solve them To the extent that they're solvable, I mean some things can be solved really quickly. I mean like the You know the Medium down route 15 in the town taking over it Becoming a class one that's already gone from the plan Select board is never going to go for that Evan teach told me to just Word process that whole idea out so one of the things we I'm I'm In my mind is that I think it's been brought up before I don't know if you brought up Ned or Tom but we want to make sure that we're not necessarily planning to what's a bill You know the ability today, but we're also planning for the future because the plan is going to drive changes Dana what What do we want out of this and I think maybe that's important to keep in front of everybody as we're going through the reviews What do we need at the what do we need to have at the end of the day? You know, I know we're talking etc next and we're talking about this, but when we get when we get done What do we need to have? And I don't know you don't necessarily need an answer right now But I'm just thinking that might be something we need to keep in front of ourselves Well every time we meet we need to understand where we need to be Because it may be that a lot of the ideas or the concerns that Dennis raises or anybody raises Don't need to be Resolved yet. They need to be identified but not resolved We're this is a this is a process where we're going to write zoning regulations So that's good to remember as we're going through this if we're not necessarily trying to do what The building layout or something 30 years from now, but we're trying to stage it so that whatever we're whatever we do Brings us forward And I think some of that is the regulatory framework For the plan That's been developed so far. So this this the plan is the plan We're we're actually trying to get to the point of actually what regulations can we do now to help? This thing started and this time next year Hopefully through the select board and that will be a big task done And then we'll pick off other things in the plan that may be Just to follow the select board or whatever, but this is a big one That's not much different than it is now, right? There's a certain sewer capacity We don't preserve it for anybody first come first serve when it's used up as used out So maybe that just as we're going through this if we keep in mind what we're what we're trying to get out of this For this round we end up building a big planning Not a parking lot per se. I don't want to use a term parking lot But but the following the the sub Follow-up initiatives, you know, we do this these are the next key points These are the next things whatever it's whether it's whether it's enabling type of architecture, whether it's enabling whatever Autobike rack Sure To Dana is Is the select we're going to approve the etc next document and the And we'll give you minutes all in one package um Possibly the plan what we've decided to do is keep the plan open right now to incorporate Dennis's comments And to incorporate anything from the etc this regulatory round So the zoning makes won't be approved until we can do the zoning regulations anytime. Okay A couple of things just to follow up a little bit first on on the public work stuff Reading through all of that stuff I get a little nervous Because i'm not even sure that the infrastructure we have in place Will support all the development that could happen up there Under today's regs and before we go, you know, I I think it's very important when we start Going down this list of densities land use and everything else in the new center We need to know that What we allow Can be supported up there and I think we need that's an answer that we need in public works pretty early And if it won't support it the second answer we need is well, what does it cost to get it? And how do we get it and and what the time? Frame is to get it and and they've they've got to answer that stuff You know, they know they can figure it out. So it's less. What can we do? But what will it take to do it? And how we We can integrate all of that in the plan doesn't mean the plan can't be implemented Well, and who's going to pay for it? So if it's all developer funded It doesn't matter right we can allow it and either they build it or they don't If it's town funded then that's maybe a different story and those different scenarios You know, you can however they play out the zoning regs can still be the zoning regs And you can make design it so that you know if it is one scenario or another you still get the outcome that you want Depending on you know, what plays out So we're we're working with the the consultants are helping us do what? And just go this big high level just again. Well, it's the Taking all the neighborhoods is sort of laid out in the subtasks here So we're going to go through all the neighborhoods Look at all the districts. What do you want? What do you want to regulate? What do you want to look like? So the the consultant this isn't just etc next That the consultants are helping us with the regulations. We're doing we're doing Zoning and subdivision regulation updates In parallel to In parallel with The etc. No, this is just regs for etc next for etc next. Okay We might slip in some affordable housing stuff Okay, so again, that's just keeping the framing on this is is We're we're doing this effort right now with the goal of coming out with Regulation updates We would be doing this even if we hadn't done the etc next plan because in the town plan it has to It says that we need to update the Design review regulations in the town center. So this is enabled no matter what Just what we have backing it up is a great plan that was a product of an open Paula you had a question It's sort of a comment because As somebody who's now going into her third year of coming to these meetings and Being concerned about all of these issues What I have been told repeatedly is that we are now or that over the long haul We are now at what I had been waiting for and that was Regulations that have teeth in them Because one of the reasons that people in the town have been upset about a variety of different things that have gone on in the new town center quote unquote is because the regulations Don't have teeth in them So it's very difficult for this commission to enforce things that people would like to see or even that you would like to see Because the regulations Aren't clear enough and specific enough To accommodate that and so that's my No, that's where we are. Yeah, we are here. So and I mean one of my concerns is that we really need to look at The different districts separately when we're just when we're developing the regulations Some things Will be looked there. There are certain categories like walkability and you know those kinds of things that we may want everywhere But how we achieve those may be different in each area So and and what the what the regulations require or limit or whatever Would be different for the historic district than they are for One of the others That's bad Just to touch on what paul said You say regulations The readings I get from a hybrid approach to the zoning is they aren't really Regulations there are certain design standards, but How you Fill that block There are a lot of different ways to do it One of the things that Dana or somebody stuck in our package hear about uh design review and it says What scares the hell out of me is that project reviews are conducted by a group of qualified reviewers typically an appointed boarder commission, you know, and I bet we go around this room, you know We wouldn't agree on what what what the right design for something would be everybody would have something And how do we how do we get there? My question is to the consoles How do we how do we get something that that we all Feel is is worthwhile And and there are so many different pieces to put into that And that's you know, that that's the big the big cast I I'm not really all that worried about public work stuff because that that could be fixed We can we can fix that stuff that cost money and time but you know I think the other thing to remember about that This public works hurdle and talking about money whether it's coming from the from the town or or, you know, the developers is that You know, none of these things Happened the day you flip the switch So I mean you have basically have to put the put the structure Of the regulation and the and the plan into place And and then the rest of it will happen and and fund it will fund as it needs to We can't just like say well, it's going to be x a million dollars. We got to do this this and this Let's go to the select board and see if they'll do it. It's not going to work that way It I mean look at this like for example the southern connector in in burlington was this thing where They they decided they just had to build this this This entire road bed without really having a plan at the other end And and what is it now? It's a it's a parking area, you know with with a lot of graffiti in it So it's it's like you don't do the infrastructure first you do the plan and figure out how it's going to work and the infrastructure will come Well, I guarantee you to take up two and a half years just to upgrade a pump station Well, I agree at least But in that two and a half years, what are you going to get like two new buildings in there? I mean we're talking about a 30 year plan here We're not talking about trying to trying to flip the switch and get all this stuff to happen It's not that's not what we're doing And then to answer your question about You know what these design standards or guidelines or whatever you want to call them You know, how are we going to get to the point where they have teeth? You know, that's the whole purpose of form-based code and of you know a hybrid or whatever we're doing is you're coming up with the criteria of exactly what matters In terms of design so that you can say to a developer This is what we want to see this is what we care about do whatever you want, you know within these parameters And that's going to get the outcomes of better design more satisfied community outcome And not just based on opinion, but based on Criteria, yeah Well, we were providing the better structure And that's what the zoning regulations and subdivision regulations are there for That's a really good point. I mean we are the regional planning commission for presentation on communities that have done form-based code around here There is no pure form-based code really anywhere it's form-based code hybrid which is you take Some of the pierce up and you completely customize it for your community And so the essentially they're all hybrids Well, I think the consultants already told us some people are undoing their form-based code I said I think that in a previous meeting the consultants said that some communities are undoing their form-based code and and creating as Dana said some sort of Hybrid taking some elements of it But just just going to their regulations and not even talking about the form-based code itself Just go to gross go to our design control and maybe learn what we've learned from some of what form-based code offers or what some of the etc next offers and Amending your design control that way so To circle back to the schedule because that's what this started as just discussion that we are going to have this go You got to take this to contract. You've got to do this relatively soon. I'm assuming because of the schedule Yeah, I know what that we might have the potential to accelerate, but we also might have the need to slow it down so Projects have to be adjustable In general the this this overall concept at this point does anybody Really have any any deep concerns with Again Recognizing that your your desire to accelerate this I think that might be an option I like the idea. I mean having standing component of every meeting to either vet some of the the discussion topics from the previous one or to Bring attention to things that are coming I mean that that puts us on the track and we should never skip a meeting We should never not have a meeting because we don't have applications if we don't have applications Let's talk You know, let's keep every let's let's let's keep every even if it's not even if it's a half hour session Let's not let's not waste an opportunity To have some to have some some work done Um But I mean it and then as we're as we're having each meeting I think we want to reiterate what our target is what our goal is because it's very easy To get distracted and start talking about an element of of the etc next plan when that's not really That's not really what the goal of this effort is not at all So I think it's worth it's worthwhile. We may want to change something in the etc execs as we're going through But just to keep focus on what our what our scope is For this I think will help us get through some of the questions. Are we talking about the historic? No, we're talking about town center um You know, we're not talking about Susie Wilson. We're talking about the town center, so I think it's just Help will be helpful for us to keep that focus and and maybe that's a simple little slide at the beginning of every meeting This is this is our goal Just to reiterate what our focus is and that might help with the consultants as well So when we have our future meetings for like subtasks b or something like that Um, are we going to be looking at the etc next document? Are we really looking at regulations? How and you know what changes we want the regulations after having read the etc next plan? Well I'm not Exactly sure about that. That's a good question. Um, what you will be reviewing for each meeting We need to hammer out a little bit more So back to Ned's point be good. Nice to have that in front of us ahead of time with least a week ahead of time If we're going to go through like, you know page five to ten of the regulations, let's you know There might be some meetings where there's nothing. It's just a fresh slate Based on that topic Well, we still there needs to be some context like what don't you know Even if there's nothing we have to say well, okay The regulations go from here to here and we have to fill in this blank here or something like that Just some some kind of context of what we're trying to fill in and wants some homework You want some homework basically? Yeah, some science. I'm sorry to interrupt you That's what we're trying to come up with ideas. What are we going to change? So just you know the context of what And I know we've had some of that because some of the earlier presentations the consultant said you're going to be needing to look At this this and this So that should already exist but but stage it for each presentation and that might be what we talk about You know the preceding The preceding meeting is this is what we're going to be looking at. Yeah You're not going to care if we slide a consent agenda item on the We second meeting If we do that I think the expectation should be that a consent agenda item if it goes beyond a few minutes or being contentious It's going away. Well, no, you would continue to but we would not do oftentimes with consent agenda items We go into review that same night. I would not entertain a review So it would be understood that if it's quick and easy like tonight, we'll slide it through And if it needs to be one that you need to have more discussion, you will pull it off the consent agenda and continue the hearing It'll go if it needs to go to a full full review, then it won't be done that night Well, you pull it off the consent agenda. Just saying it won't we won't do a review that night I don't care how we do it and how we phrase it, but we will not do a review Just wanted to make sure you guys wanted to even allow that Right, I mean we shouldn't we shouldn't not do work In the same thing if we have a night with no applications that we should be talking we should do have a discussion points You know, we don't necessarily need agenda. We don't necessarily need the Consultants at every session we have we should be able to talk about things Even if it's just to prepare for the next Consultant meeting So we're in a low on the conversation. How's everybody doing? Um So you said we're going to try and slide affordable housing in a little bit So that'll be in the density section and parking All related so it'll come to bear anyway But that's kind of that'll I guess that'd be a goal for a couple of these sessions And for what it's worth. Um, I did go through The affordable housing audit from the rpc from virginia mohoney and made Draft changes that were easy to do based on what her recommendations are so we can bring those in As they seem appropriate, but some of the bigger issues like density and parking are so interrelated with the etc discussions I just left those for this project So we're not we're not You know, we're not hurting for time at this point. Um, are there From what people have seen so far. Are there really are there hot hot topic that we want to get in? I mean, I know daniel you said a lot of the things that that have been brought up are going to be targeted in certain nights so Are the things that folks want to want to call out that they haven't seen in there or You know, do you guys have anything you want to call out to us specifically? I think once we get rolling it'll all make better sense I do think it would be The public works piece. I do think engagement with public works is really important and not to try to resolve their issues But to engage with them as a collaborative entity Yeah, um knowing sometimes it's it's Hard to schedule them off hours could you know, would folks be amenable to A daytime meeting with public works if that makes it easier to get their involvement Yeah, and I'm no no preconceived time or anything like that right now, but Getting getting their engagement at 6 30 at night. Sometimes there's a little challenging since they're here on, you know, the select board meetings But if we could meet with them on a different timetable that might make it more accessible Daytime would make it way more accessible More probable Yeah, well, I'm just saying that would be We might not all be able to do it But if we do something like that We obviously would have to warn it because it's a it's a it would be a work session Not a full-blown planning meeting, but I mean we can warn work sessions. I don't know the 24-hour if we pull it together So, I mean It might have to be a midday and which it maybe it's more than one or whatever But not everybody's going to be able to make Daytime some of us can on occasion some of us can't but you know, we could potentially set up a couple sessions Um, we'll do our best to make sure that we pick a time and tell you that ever but that works for most people Well, let's just ask you guys right now. What if it was daytime? From my perspective, it's it's there's no there's no one one time It really is if we can set a time Far enough in advance like a couple weeks out, then then I can probably adjust my schedule to accommodate same year I just have to have some notice Afternoon's better for me I mean that gets us that that that hopefully puts us in a more more Collaborative approach with public works because we want we want their input and we want their guidance And probably faster, but not just restrictions and not just what you can't do We want to figure out how to do something not not what you can't do And if the answer is it's going to take you know, 10 million dollars to do something. Well, that's the answer I mean, that's not a that's not a roadblock. That's just an answer right What else can we do to Let's look back a minute. So I have a topic that I haven't seen covered in the materials and that's um electric car charging Uh requirements for parking spaces Is that on anybody's radar to say, you know, some proportions It is but how deep are we going in? I mean, I guess that would go Follow that one to Dana. How deep are we looking outside the etc nets because we would want it everywhere See okay subtasse might cover that has transit integration bike accommodations things like that Yeah, I know we can yeah, it's probably At a high level covered, but I'm just wondering if that's like Something that we're going to touch on or no Within this within the town center. Yeah, and we can talk about all over town, but We're trying to just focus on the town center for you And we're also going to be This is we're going to bring this up under other business But we're going to be engaging with the village on a joint energy plan based on the Requirements of act month 74 so that We'll be getting off the ground soon and that will incorporate elements of You know EV charging station and training at that off the ground So Dave Yes, my biggest concern is just making sure we come up with some details for those subtasse descriptions because right now There's a lot of reviews going on which to me implies we're reviewing something that's already done And maybe that's the case, but I think we're also trying to come up with Things that don't exist yet. So that's not necessarily a review. That's creating something new So those are high level descriptions of the subtasse, but I mean back to tom's point I think It would be beneficial for everybody to try to hone in Each one of those subtasse so that we're not just time boxing what that That subtask is which is what we've done by setting a date, but we haven't said what we're really what the find's done coming out of those meetings So that's my biggest concern is getting some because right now if I was to start this today, honestly, I really don't know what we'd be doing So and I think to that point that was one of the reasons I want to reiterate each time we do this What's the goal? So in these meetings? I think what you just said ties in directly with that We need to have a goal for each meeting not just what is our overall goal for the project But what are we trying to accomplish each night? And we need to be able to measure that did we get there? Did we do what we needed to do tonight? That'll identify whether or not we need follow up that'll identify whether or not we need you know additional meetings or whatever So I think that's an excellent point John homework hang on Josh, how are you feeling about this? I'm really honing in on what you said about collaborative with public works. Okay Just because I don't mean specific details. It'll cost 10 million will cost a million or what have you but Just sort of a philosophy of development and how transit ties in Because we're looking at this over the course of if the last plan is any indication like three decades And so I really want to make sure That we're all on the same page of what ethics should look like and how transit and transportation and roads Fit into that because I mean, you know, it's one of my things the the town common area The reason we don't have a town common now is because they put route 15 right through it And so when we think about development and think about sort of a philosophy of roads That's the kind of thing I just I want to be on the same page with them that like Essex isn't just a place for people to drive through and I mean because the engineer is always going to approach it from aspects of Capacity and moving traffic and that makes total sense and the logic in what Dennis said was completely ironclad on that basis And I agree with it. Yeah, of course But that's not What we want we want to live here We want the buildings to work in such a way and walk ability and transit So I don't know what the specifics are. That's the point of the process But I really want to be collaborative with them on that so we get something that 30 years from now We say yes, this is exactly what we wanted. We live here That sounds a lot like some of the stuff that Ned was yeah. Yeah, we're different developments on the same page on that one John, how about you? I'm good with the schedule and I I really respect what Ned would say and earlier about, you know, wanting to move it forward But I think you move it faster But I because we don't want to miss Possible opportunities to get things funded But again, I think this is a this process has to take what it takes in order for us to do it right And I think the schedule addresses that and and ditto to what Josh said with public worse Ned, how are you feeling? No, I I I think that Having the materials before we meet with enough time To go through them is the only way we're going to be able to make progress at every one of these meetings. So I'm You know, I think that's that that's important. So we have to do that and Uh The consultants and ourselves need to work with with public works to get get something accomplished And I'm Go sit back to be patient and keep my mouth shut for a while Well, I don't think you have to be I think this is driving this I think this is good and any plan we've got to be able to adjust it as we go forward Um, I'm I'm hoping that you can build in a little flexibility with the contracting with them to to adjust up and down as needed Or float dates or whatever Usually these contracts just have um You know it would be october september and I wouldn't even be giving dates but I thought in response to some of Ned's concerns that It would make it more real if I put dates here One of the tools that might be nice to just keep in our back pocket that worked many years ago is you know, if we get hung up on a specific topic that we can't seem to get Conclusion on you know using a subgroup two people two or three commissioners want to go away and draft something and come back Um, I think you know because we could easily Spend a meeting going down a rabbit hole and not getting concrete work product But we might say all right Ned and John you guys go off and bring us back a draft of that so we can chew it over I mean that worked really well with Phasing and some of that other stuff and I'd be willing to participate on you know Something that was of interest like affordable housing or something like that And those are some of the examples that where we would potentially do something extra You know, maybe whether whether it fits into our standing agenda item on the on the off planning meeting or the Development review meeting or it's something we have to call out and say we need an hour To discuss this with the commission I think we need to be ready to be flexible enough to adapt that we may not need it. I mean Things have worked out before we've needed but I think we need to anticipate and be ready for An extra session If we need to so that the scheduled meetings none of the planning meeting doesn't get bogged down Are that the development review meeting application review meeting doesn't get bogged down By this but we still accommodate questions concerns and staging for the next planning meeting And the planning meetings can't get shanghai to john's point. We should have A relatively clear set of you know agenda items for each night to be able to check off and say yeah, we we got all this We're we're there and then the other stuff or Clearly state. We're not going to get this this item done Yeah, I'm a little That concerned but curious because if I look at some of the Descriptions of these tasks like I look at site criteria Uh in architectural form and in densities items b E and f I'm just curious as to how they're going to separate those out because There are some real overlaps. It would seem in what they want to accomplish in those three categories. I'm just At the consultants seen this plan yet tenant. Oh, yeah, okay, so they're in again So we'll let's see how they go. That's a good point to to there may be overlapping that can easily be identified I think it'll flow together pretty naturally and Who's going to be providing the pizza each night? Paul, I think you'd had a question Yeah, I mean this is just you know, I'm part part of What they talk about in here are the some pretty high densities for the for peter's area of the of the town center And but he has come in with a completely different idea now and I was wondering how you Deal with that. Do you back off the densities? Do you put that in as something that might happen? You know 25 30 years down the road or How do you deal with that? I think we address it at the time and see where we go because we are doing the regulations The the etc next is a plan. It's not a regulation. So the regulations that we come up with Peter's going to be in really much what exactly what the etc next the same yet kind of out of sync Well, the etc next has concept of minimum density, right? So If he was proposing new development and we had like minimum density requirements then we have he'd have a problem, but Um, he's not really proposing building much, right? Just reconfiguring so It looks like no density in terms of housing Right plan and the regulations aren't in effect yet And again just because the regulations say you can do this doesn't mean someone will unless you require a minimum density Or something similar thoughts for this evening Dana, did you have another anything else that you might wanted to get through tonight? Do you want to have any substantive discussions or nope? We have some stuff under other business um That's about it I'm I'm I know when I was looking at this stuff. I I really think and I think you know as john called out having clear Targets Each time is going to help us move faster Because we're going to be able to measure did we get it did we not? um And without that it's going to be a little bit more of a Amble and rambling path, so I think we can hit some of these things Anybody else have anything else they want to talk about the anything with this etc next plan the process thoughts we okay with Sort of the basic structure we've sort of batted about a little bit planning the planning plan planning the plan plan Okay, let's move on then Uh, and before we go anybody any any of you three audience Want to have a comment? Yeah, go ahead So is is it a plan then to to begin meetings the etc Updates or the meetings beginning next month? Yeah on a monthly basis the second meeting in every month Now the other piece of that is that we are reserving going to be reserving a an agenda item on their other business Or whatever you want to phrase it on on every meeting Or the the the opposite meeting to potentially discuss items that need to be Dug into or or dealt with or followed up on so there may be More than just the second meeting of every month Topics about this Hopefully we'll we'll we'll keep something going pretty routinely Not right here Yes, it's and it's on the It's it's public information. It's available. We can put it up on the Um, what on the website once it's once the contract is solidified inside I can forward it to you. I'll send it in email tomorrow So we have the next item is minutes from the july 26th. Do I have a motion for those? I move approval of the july 26 20,018 minutes By david seconded by shu. Are there any edits to the minutes that anyone wants to present? Then all those in favor of the minutes as written I Obed minutes carry seven zero And that is a testament to our recording secretary Other business what do you got I have just a fyi to let you know that the actual application for the solar at Hector Leclerc's land off river road is in the door And then you should also have received A asset plan use regulations housing audit on your packet material Another public utilities commission project just to be aware of is the Cellular tower on pinecrests that we had talked about last meeting Um There was discussion there Public works wanted to talk with them about where the pole would go whether it's a new pole or and put onto an existing pole They have filed a new application to put it on an existing pole So public works is happy with that just letting you know that's a dancing around us. So this was a It was a day we're going to put it on royal park's private land and You're uh, I heard something on it uh interview the other day You know today or yesterday mpr on relaxing some of the cell tower regs Some proposed at the puc level or an up a local level puc level which will affect us So I think they're just proposed at this point, but they're talking about making it easier If you Can bring those any news we hear of that so you guys Take a closer look at it or you can look at it on your own and then The other thing I just wanted to Circle back to was that enhanced energy planning. Um, so we've met with the rpc. They're going to do a joint Village town enhanced energy plan Similar to the bike ped plan that was done in 2014 The idea behind that is that since the village is doing their comprehensive plan update next year They'll be able to incorporate this New energy plan by reference to in their document and at some point next time we do our town plan amendment or Redoption will incorporate it by reference in ours. Um, or at some point if there's ever a joint Comprehensive plan it can just be sitting there ready to go Um So the energy committee will be involved and actually One of the ideas that came out of our meeting was to get A joint meeting with the village and the town planning commission On that so you understand what the process is What changes are being made what the requirements are and just make sure everybody's on the same page So that when you get the Final document and it's ready to go and finished, you know You're aware of what it is and not surprised by what's in it So we were going to figure out how to schedule that it we're going to try for any Already scheduled meeting if we have space in them. So if there's only one application we can do Um the other half that meeting being this presentation or we'll do it on a village planning commission meeting night or Another meeting at some point Consolidation and all that for these Meetings going forward on the second month. Do you want to include the village? That was actually going to be something I was going to mention I would like to routinely include them Um in these in our I want to sort of resurrect our idea of If not formally then at least informally resurrect idea of visiting PC members Um, the discussion pieces are just that discussion You know, it's like we talked about and hashed out the before there's no voting opportunities For visiting pc members, but these are going to be discussions So I think it's it would be worthwhile and a good effort to bring them forward Well, they may have time Um, the other item is this is just a request that when we send out the notices that stuff is posted If we could just include a link the the google doc link to the to the route It's because of The number of accounts and so forth that are out there. It's not necessarily easy For me personally to keep the web page Bookmarked I have too many devices So just like when we send a note out hate stuff is posted Just include the the note to the to the to the planning commission If we can it's just a just that shortcut will help Anything else? Yeah, um Are we going to react to the housing survey in some way or it's just there for information As we go through the supply and cycle or What's the What's up with that? Do you have reactions? Yeah, but Um, my I guess my question is just like the etc next we're going through, you know all the regs Through the etc next lens. Are we going to go through all the regs with the housing audit lens? I can we can Bring what what changes we've already looked at to you at some point Like I said a lot of it will overlap very heavily with etc So I just figured it would be brought in when we start talking about densities and That are related topics on etc. But whatever this round. Let's let's let's be careful Even if this is something that's that's relevant townwide Let's try to keep our scope And our focus on the town center Even if it's you know bringing in density or not bringing in density but talking about the housing, but let's Even if it's there, let's let's try to keep our focus On that parcel That those neighborhoods As we go through this so we're not letting that creep too much but but so then next year We're going to go through again the rest of town We're going to be on a cycle to do other stuff You know pretty darn soon But it's worth calling out. I mean it's worth as we're going through noting We should be doing that with anything if we're doing something in the etc and it has Application somewhere else. We should we should make that note That we want to either Apply this elsewhere. We want to look at this elsewhere. We want to we don't want to lose The thoughts that we have when we're doing this parcel How it might apply elsewhere as well and that's okay, so another question then so um like a Their etc the town center has several different districts in it or several different playing zones That are also elsewhere in the town so If we propose changes to the to the criteria for one district How are we going to limit it to just town center? One of the options for that is just to create entirely new districts for the town center area, which was one of the ideas But it could also we could look at at the same time and see if it makes sense to extend to other districts It might be what it might mean is that we it could be something that we enable now Or something as part of this discussion that we need to know more so we're not going to enable in the town center I mean that anything is a yeah, so r1 is on my mind, right? So No, good. I mean this this is exactly what these discussions are going to are going to bring out You know, can we keep it within scope or does it have to be in a bigger process? So Keep drilling like that thoughts anything else Then I would take a motion moved by Tom seconded by shoe all those in favor We are adjourned Thank you