 Good morning. Today is August 22nd, calling to order the meeting of the Jones Library Building and Facilities Committee. We are holding the meeting, I assume, still in accordance with the governor's orders, around being able to hold meetings remotely. So I'm going to start with a call of attendance. Say, recognize, be heard here and be heard. Sorry, switching gears. George. Here. Alex, and I'm here as well. Okay. So first item that we have is the motion to approve the minutes of April 25th. I move to approve the minutes. I second. Okay. Any questions, comments, notes on the meeting? No. Okay. So George, how do you vote to approve the minutes of April 25th? Approve. Second. Yes. And Alex, yes, as well. Okay. The next item I have is a public comment and I see that we have four attendees in the audience. So if anyone of our attendees would like to comment, now would be a great time. You can raise your virtual hand and we will invite you into the meeting. Okay. Not seeing me. I will move to the next item. The next item is the delivery van update, which I assume probably sounds very similar to past updates, but maybe not. I have an update. They have provided me with a bit number that van is being built and the projected delivery is sometime in September. Having not purchased a town vehicle before, I don't know how long the process will take once the van is available. Obviously, we already have the contract and PO all set and ready to go. Once we get the van, we will be able to install the charging system for the van. I'm going to have it done in the shed because should the construction project go forward, the shed is going to remain and I'll be charging it there until I can't access it anymore and then I'll come up with an alternative. But yay, good news. The van is actually real and it's only taken a year and a half and we will hopefully have it within a couple months. Great. Thank you. I'm sure everyone is delighted to hear that. Thank you. All right. The next item we have is the North Amherst library building project update, which I think in our trustee meeting, you gave an update on that. Sharon, I don't know if this is different from what was relayed in the trustee meeting. I'm not sure, but so the last open day will be on September 2nd in the mill district and then it's Labor Day weekend so that next Tuesday that's when staff will put everything in boxes and then the DPW will be moving all of the books and the furniture, computers, and then Wednesday the 6th and they'll move it back into the 8 Montague road, the original North Amherst library building location and then we'll take about a month. We've just been estimating in order to organize. We still need some furniture. We still need circulation desks for the space so it'll take time and I've spoken with Paul and I said we'd love to be included on the date of the grand re-opening so that folks can be there and attended so that'll be sometime in October. DPW is still working on the site. There are still some things to be finalized so that's as much of an update as I can get right now. Okay. Any questions, comments? I would just only add that I was included on an email thread that they're going to be setting up a date for us to do a walkthrough of the building just to familiarize ourselves with things but they haven't set that date yet. Okay. Great. Sharon, the difference between September 6th when DPW moves all the things in and the October opening, the month, is that because we're still waiting on furniture? Is that because I've never tried to set up a library before? Is that just how long it takes to get everything where it goes or why is there a delay? To be able to, so because we need to pack and get out of the mill district, Cinda wanted us to move out as quickly as possible so that she can rent out at least the space so we said okay we're going to do it which means the stuff, when we put them in boxes, it's not going to be pretty. It's just going to be thrown into boxes and we're going to get out that way so it'll take a little time to unpack when we get back there and staff will be doing it and staff are a little limited but also the furniture and then this will give, we wanted to give wiggle room for the reopening celebration to be set and the stuff that DPW is working on, I want to say the gas station building still hasn't been taken down and the paving still has to be done so there's still big stuff and we just wanted to make sure there was time for the big stuff to happen because we didn't want to schedule something and then say oh no we lied and try and reschedule so hopefully this is the schedule we'll be able to stick to. Okay so it sounds like it's a generous schedule because there's living parts that some of which are outside of our control and trying to give DPW enough time for, okay. Georgia do you want to respond first or should Farah ask her a question first? Yeah I just wanted to add that it's also important to remember that the layout of Montague Road is different now so plus that compile with the fact that the branch library wasn't hired until Montague Road was closed this will give them the opportunity to determine what layout is going to work best as far as what collections go where because some shelves as we know were taken out to help with the ADA compliance and there's a completely different answer and so that's going to take them some time to determine what the layout's going to be that's most efficient. Okay yeah I guess my question is related to that but what is what happened to the old furniture is this because of ADA compliance that we need different furniture or? The space got smaller yeah because of the ADA compliance so like the desk that was there before just isn't going to fit anymore. Okay the existing desk also was an ADA compliant. Okay okay thank you. Okay well thank you for reaching out to the town manager again you know the sooner the trustees could know the date put it on our calendar so that we could attend all of us would certainly be appreciative of that. Okay next update is the branch MOU and so this is the member random understanding because the north and south Amherst libraries have always been buildings owned by the town but which library services are provided in and seem to be a considerable confusion over the years about who owned the buildings and how that worked and so this was an effort between town and the library to have something that made it clear sort of the relationship relative to the buildings in the library and who does what for how much so. Yeah yeah that's perfect so I've been working with with Sean and Paul for several months now putting together a memorandum of understanding and an annual fee that will pay for use of both spaces you know in return for they'll give us the space and they will take care of you know both of the buildings and so we're in the we're in the home stretch we almost have an agreement and I will share it with everybody once it's signed. Great thank you. All right George monthly grounds report this should be fun. Does anything happen oh wait wait sorry Farah sorry I didn't mean to jump on you there sorry go ahead please. Just wondering if if things are going to be slowed down now that Sean's not there Sharon or well all I know is that Jen LaFountain is going to take his place on the building committee okay for more behind the scenes kind of stuff but that's all I know okay they do they do have a crackerjack team so yeah that's all I can say. Okay thanks. Has he had his last day yet? No it's the 31st. Okay that's what I thought yeah so yeah so in terms of at least the MOU guys assume we'll have this done before he's yeah okay okay now George. Buildings and grounds right? Buildings and grounds yeah so so as as we all know several weeks ago during one of the heavy heavy down pores that we had there was a flooding issue with the atrium and other factors contributed to the urgency of the issue but I want to commend my staff for working kind of around the clock since the issue happened in order to get this building open and within three days of the incident itself. Unfortunately we are no strangers to drying out a building if it gets wet we deal with this all the time so fortunately we were able to get all the carpets dry get all of the wet sealing tiles out we did exploratory holes in the walls to make sure that there was no moisture trapped in the walls and after going through the building with both the fire department and the building inspector they definitely gave us a clean bill of health to reopen the sprinkler pipe that burst during that episode was patched and they will be doing a more permanent replacement probably within the month the department there is backed up with a lot of work going on at UMass but they were they were confident that their patch was certainly good enough for us to be open safely so yeah that's where we're at with that and I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. All right do you have any questions? You're muted. Just wanted to say thank you to you and your staff George I mean that sounded like a real nightmare it was this was probably on par with you know the special collections flood episodes this this was a big one the the fact that the sprinkler pipe burst just made for a pretty awful situation but again I commend my guys for getting the place back together and the town departments for working with us to get the place open as quickly as possible we certainly didn't expect that we would be able to open it within a few days so we're very thankful we were. So George I have a couple of questions and this probably flows into the next section the backup building project planning but so I know on the list of sort of urgent repairs that you had put together back in 2017 I know that your number one priority back in 2017 was replacing the fire alert system number two was renovating the sprinkler system number three was renovating replacing the glass atrium and number four right was HVAC and you know there's been so many conversations about HVAC because HVAC's been taking the lead I guess so do we have and I know in the repair be that town has been working on I believe all the focus has been on HVAC and roof and not on the sprinkler systems and you know the things that were previously identified as our largest our biggest priorities quite frankly um so will this patch or will this replacement pipe like is another pipe gonna burst at some point we don't know like is this gonna get us out for a year do we like where does this put us in terms of what what in 2017 were your top three priorities I wish I could predict it uh unfortunately you know they we we do all of the state inspections on our sprinkler systems and piping everybody knows the age of this system it's not to say that this would not happen again somewhere I mean all the pipes are of the same age and with a dry system once once water has been in there which it does during testing you end up with these pockets of water and over the years things just start to rot and that's what happened in this situation it was an elbow and over the years it just rotted to the point where it was a weak spot so this could happen again if the system is charged uh it's kind of hard to prioritize when you have similar things which both also tie into safety um they're all the same age they're all having the same issues we just had another hvac issue that i'm getting pricing for um that we lost ac in part of the building because the control module died right now we're operating it operating it on manual so that the building has air conditioning but eventually that's going to have to be looked at as well so so it's kind of hard to prioritize those things because they're I feel that they're equally important and I I hope that the town understands that you know we're kind of bound by the financial part of it if we can only afford to do one thing what's it going to be um it's it's a tough one I wish I could answer that question so when you um so basically when the when the system charges I think that's what you said um so when they do the inspection every year I assume that's what you do do I don't know what they do is they they quarterly test the backflow system which is the seals and what keeps the water from filling the pipes uh that that's tested quarterly uh both the town and our contractor test them um and every I believe it's every five years it's either three or five years uh they actually do an exploratory where they pull a pipe and they look inside to see if there's any sediment uh or corrosion or something like that and they just they pick a section in the lower part of the building uh and do that and are we do for that anytime soon or did this burst pipe count as far actually the the the last time it was done was last year and it was a pipe near the one that burst but it wasn't the one that burst that they tested okay um okay um I'd also like to add um because I know there was there was some concern that the roof drains weren't getting cleared often enough and I'd say that my staff clears those drains they check them easily weekly uh just because we know it's an issue especially in the fall once the leaves start falling the the drains constantly get clogged uh and and we take care of it um but I will add that when we went when I brought the building inspector through the building uh to make sure that we could reopen I brought him out onto the roof so he could you know he'd never been on the roof before so his first comment was that it wasn't designed with enough drainage that there isn't enough drainage in on the roof for all the different pitches and angles and everything and I said yeah that's that's the truth and it's it's a design issue along with everything else so I mean it's just more reinforcement that you know we're not crazy that there's actual real issues with the way that this building is designed that is not helping the situation with keeping water out of the building oh I want to echo my I that's it's unfortunate if there are people um who are denigrating your staff who are incredibly hardworking people who do really really phenomenal work in the building and deserve nothing but the gratitude of this town um and so truly I mean I think that you know you have a great staff and I that that's unfortunate it makes me sad to hear that people are um blaming blaming hardworking people um yeah that's unfortunate okay sorry so anyway um all right so uh and so this so then we'll get the sprinkler so we'll have that bit replaced okay so and then you just said there's another HVAC control module that died and so we're getting a quote to replace that module yes can we even get those modules I know some parts you can't get like is that that the gettable part it's well it's something that's going to have to be designed because it's mixing new technology with old technology so uh it's something that will probably have to be spec'd and designed for that particular purpose so that will take time but right now it is operating on manual it's not greatly affecting energy costs what this unit does is it speeds up and slows down the circulation fans to its needs so right now it's just running on high speed all the time which isn't the most efficient thing but we have AC in the building so it's it's kind of like it's the it was the easiest option just to have it running full time until we could get a replacement quoted when when do we when do we remind me when we flip to heat I mean I know it obviously depends on the weather the end of September yeah the end of September early October and this this module would affect heating as well so it's something that yeah when we switch to heating system we will need that to be operational as well okay and is it something that you can continue to operate I mean manually if during heating season during heating season okay yeah okay and so I know when we um the last couple of years um for joint capital planning committee when we've been talking about um you know the building needs where obviously JCPC is where these costs are paid out of and we had asked for sort of you know an emergency fund in town had said you know we'd rather you handle it on you know an emergency basis rather than giving you a fund although good good news is next year for JCPC that we'll we'll have a fund like the school and everybody else um which is one thing that we should be I don't know how much say we're going to have in that but I think um just so you know George that was one of the things that JCPC recommended this year was that we have like every other town department you know a fund um so will we so we're just going to go to town for once we get the quote for this and then have that yeah I'll talk to Sharon I'll talk to Sharon when the quote comes in okay then we'll see where it's at I I can't venture a guest to how much it's going to be it could be less than the threshold for a JCPC request or it could be more so okay once I have that figure I'll talk to Sharon and we'll decide where we're going to try to get it paid out of great okay any other updates on the building nope not at this time you know this will go into the next into the next topic but um okay going into the next topic sorry so if the building project doesn't move forward you've hit the nail on the head Alex all of these things have to be taken care of the town is going to have to do HVAC do the roof do the the fire system that you know the panel and the pipes along with the carpeting and the hazmat removal and on and on and on and on so um I guess period that's all of that needs to be taken care of period so so we're we're so last so we've since basically what November October given the town everything they need for the repair B option and as I understand it we're waiting on town I think the last update we had is that they we need an engineer to design um any system that we have and so we're waiting on town to put together a scope for an engineer and so I guess we're does the town need anything from us like is there anything we are they waiting on us for anything or where do things stand no they're not waiting for us um yeah they would need their plan is to hire an engineer uh to do a feasibility study they expect that the work will be over one and a half million dollars which means there has to be an OPM hired as part of this project this plan B project and that that's that's all the information I have okay and then have we confirmed with town because I know one of the things we talked about in a board meeting maybe it was back in May was there were the new the ECAC had new requirements around sustainability and so I guess have we confirmed if our project if there's a repair B option will it follow those guidelines or yes yes Jeremiah did did say that yes okay which I imagine okay all right um so far yeah so um I might have asked this before but also I know that some of it is JCPC funds but Sharon at the end of the day a lot of this any kind of repair any kind of plan B is going to be funded by the town right so what we have in place now is the trustees will pay for the first 1.5 1.8 sorry 1.8 and then after that the town will will take up the rest through the JCPC process so I would envision that it would you know we would lay out our five-year plan and we would say you know like what y'all we're just discussing now we need to add the fire panel system you know to that list after or before HVAC I don't know I would assume the engineer would decide which which things need to happen ASAP and then over time year after year after year JCPC will approve what they approve and then those items will get taken care of piecemeal though and so that also means that nothing is going to happen overnight it's going to be a few years we lose all the funding we have from the state from any of these grants any of this fund raising through the capital campaign so it just seems like it seems really frustrating right so if this project doesn't go through plan B we're not going to have any money for plan B the library is going to be in the situation for the next few years so it just seems like the smart thing is to go ahead with the project at this point it would be quite of all the loud voices saying no and that is going to just like look at the schools it's costing us so much more to build these schools and our kids well my kid is not being able to take advantage of that so many of our kids have not been able to take advantage of that building it's just I'm just expressing my frustration because it seems like you guys are working so hard all the time and this the situation is really frustrating and not fair to the town to the kids to the community it would be fiscally irresponsible to not move forward with this project it just flat out irresponsibility yeah thank you for all you're doing Sharon and George I can't even imagine working under these circumstances so many people and and it's not just it's not just working under the conditions it's it's going back to the discussion that George was just having you know when the the fire inspector and the building inspector got on top of the roof and you know their eyes are like saucers like I can't believe this is this is you know the way this was designed it's crazy and and that's the way every time an expert digs even a little bit into the craziness of this building you know they're like wow yeah this is crazy so it's you know constant validation by the experts what gets frustrating is when people who are constantly questioning the experts even though that that list of experts is very very long so again it goes back to the fiscal irresponsibility and constantly blaming you for many things yeah there's far for the course right yeah I'm not gonna lie there's an emotional toll to this and it's frustrating you know Sharon and I have been working for municipalities for quite a long time um and you know when you're faced with this day in and day out it's it's it's very frustrating and it does take a toll and I'm just gonna leave it at that so George the list that you put together in 2017 which had I think 12 items on it and that was the basis of the western builders estimate that we got as requested by town council and by jcpc um so is that a list that we is anything new need to be added to that list do we I mean I I know I guess I just want to make sure that this is a list that we're constantly looking at and that we are constantly reprioritizing right because I arguably five months ago HVAC was bumped to the top of the list right and I it may still be number one I don't know but I think it's really important for the repair B option that we keep this list of priorities in front of the group you know in town in front of you know Jeremiah and Rob and you know whoever else is on the group in front of them because I worry about people I worry about the monofocus of the HVAC system because that's the thing that sort of has been breaking down that that is most noticeable to people um and so I just want to make sure that you know one of the things that's talked about in the MOU is building a schedule um four things and so I know when we went to western builders that when you're doing one thing you know they had broken it into pieces for us because if you're doing one thing then it makes sense to do the others and so I don't know whether Rob and Jeremiah do they have this they have this list we get remember we gave them this we gave them the western builders yeah so I'm assuming we won't really know until we hear back from the engineer like I just I mean I'm thinking about you know when when we when we went to western builders you know we didn't just have HVAC in roof because it made sense to put other things in that bucket because like you know if you've got something open the most efficient thing to do is to fix the other things and so I guess I just as as as town is putting together the scope and sequence I just I don't want to lose that these things also need to be addressed um I don't know maybe I mean maybe the town's plan is I just no we can definitely you know George can look at that list and you know less than five minutes reprioritize update um and I can bring it uh to uh Jeremiah and Rob and Paul and say you know listen in light of you know this was written in 2017 and now it's 2024 almost it's just you know to keep in mind everybody needs to keep in mind this list these are the things that need to get taken care of yeah and splitting splitting them up into phases was both a financial decision and a means to avoid kicking in ADA requirements and the reality you know I'm certainly not you know I think I think we and the town need to keep in mind that if an engineer comes in here they they may recommend a path that can't avoid kicking in that ADA requirement if they say this all needs to be dealt with ASAP you know it's just gonna it's just going to cost more it's it's going to keep costing more and you're not going to get any programming changes you're not going to get any redesign changes you're not going to get any more space and the costs are just going to keep coming up so does it make sense I I don't and if it doesn't make sense to say something because the last thing I want to do is create more work for you but does it make sense and again this is where you know I'm not an expert but Jeremiah and Rob obviously this is what they do you know I mean to the extent that we have an item right like replace glass atrium roof redesign rubber membrane you know like so we like we have replaced we have repaired we have done things already but then you know like the frequency with it's with which we're having a problem like every time it rains or you know I mean like this like do we need to be giving more detail about either frequency or additional deterioration or like is that or I mean I know that you walked the building with them so in theory they have that we walked I think you walked the building with them in November so I guess I'm just trying to figure out how to keep the the actual real issues front and center but also you know I think what gets lost is you know we're constantly talking about you know the HVAC being a problem but not necessarily people realizing that you know you inspected building daily and every day you're right like there's constant repair there's constant and so I guess yeah I just want to make sure that that when they're putting together the scope for the engineer they have the most complete information and current information in front of them yeah and I honestly think they do because we've been non-stopping communicating to them you know what the needs are okay like I said they've they've walked through the building not all that long ago you know I I don't know what more we could do to plead our case I just hope that when they're part of the planning moves forward that we're unsure that we have a seat at the table so that we can keep saying what we've been saying all along and that we can advocate for what is most important okay yeah I don't doubt that we'll have a seat at the table I think absolutely they value Georgia's expertise I definitely feel we're a partner in this and I think what town staff are doing is based on the higher ups and I until the higher ups make a decision I don't see town staff moving forward on anything and it's it's not their fault it just is what it is don't you hate that phrase so on a separate but related note I just I met with some folks from the Friends Development Committee yesterday and was really amazed I have to say when Leah's trustees had to make the vote whether to go forward when we got the revised estimate that that was an incredibly difficult decision and not one made lightly and for me as the chair of buildings and facilities what weighed on me most was knowing I think at a level that sometimes you know if you're not in this committee listening to George all the time like knowing knowing the state of the building and worrying that that that the library would sort of fall way down the list like if we don't move forward we would fall way down the list and I was really concerned about our ability to stay open to stay safe to the public and and you know the decline generally in this in the building and so that decision to move forward was a leap of faith and you know I found out yesterday that like we they're they're up to 37.5 million dollars and that's six million dollars away from you know 43 million which like I I mean like that's a really really phenomenal I would have never you know I hoped but I I that was it's one of those moments where it makes me feel good about the decision that we made and I feel like six million dollars over the next what four years seems like a really attainable goal and that doesn't even include the historic tax credits and that's just money aside so I mean if we assume the historic tax credits you know it's so I just who knows to the to the to that group really just wow yeah I can't say enough so thank you George for everything and for everything your group does I really appreciate it so so I think unless you have anything else on backup building project planning okay so I do see that we have some additional attendees so I'm just going to open it back up if they're for public comment again if anyone wants to come into the meeting we'll make a public comment we always welcome and I see Bob Pam has his hand up so hi Bob hello yep yep yep just on the North Amherst library if the move occurs my guess is that DPW is going to want to move it into the the community room rather than bring everything up in an elevator or you know bring it up and then have it all in the space so just think about how that's going to be organized the furniture probably goes upstairs but the books will stay down just just think about where you want to move things so that they can be put away reasonably quickly great thanks Bob appreciate it I'm sure our branch head over there is definitely definitely having those thoughts for sure but yeah second question turns out that seems that rains seem to come in larger quantities than they used to and so I just want to make sure that as drainage plans are created under a new building that that has effects on the size of the drainage pipes the the size of the swales you know the city of each of those things it may or may not have been in their thoughts a year ago but it probably ought to be for this year and for the next 10 years and 20 years so just suggesting that as a thought that might be worthwhile third has to do with the plan B and you know people who have had concerns about the ability to move forward with plan A are not evil people and I just want to make sure that that is not the impression people get from hearing the discussions that go on in either the board or any other discussions that go on that is that is not an accurate way of thinking about people who say that that the plan is either too large too expensive or will have effects on other projects that the town is concerned about yeah I don't think Bob anyone's ever referred to people who disagree with plans as evil people I don't think there's a single person in here who would who would think that I think I think I think we all welcome people to the table I think that conversations with people who think differently are what makes plans better last thing I ever want to do is be a room full of people who often the way I do that would be terribly boring and you wouldn't get much done in life so but yes thank you for clarifying that it's definitely not how anyone at the library feels about people who have different ideas for the library absolutely not thank you thanks okay I don't see any other hands raised so there are no topics not anticipated by me so with that unless anybody else has anything else they want to add great thank you calling the meeting adjourned take care thank you bye