 So, I'm going to talk today about the pine phone and the mobility sig and that kind of space. If you guys all want to use the q amp a tab and drop questions in there I'm hoping to have time at the end for a bunch of questions, and maybe even some discussion. That will be great. If there's somebody out there who can adjust the polls maybe throw a poll in there about people in this talk who have pine phones. Yes, no, or want to get one maybe something like that. That would be great. I want to do a few little disclaimers which I always like to do. I'm not speaking for red hat. I'm not speaking for pine 64 makers of pine phone. I'm not speaking for purism the makers of the liberal five phone. I just am involved in the mobility sig doing mostly administrative stuff. I don't have much time to dig into the guts of things but luckily there's a nice little group of folks who are moving things forward. And, and that's, that's awesome. So I just have been helping out with running meetings and coordinating people and package updates and things like that. So, that's kind of the disclaimers. I can't actually. Okay. Just a little bit about the fedora mobility sig. So the goal kind of is to bring fedora to mobile devices. And when we say mobile devices. It's, I think of it as kind of this little niche area between internet of things and laptops. On the one hand you have internet of things, which are much more designed to be standalone and automatic and just sort of like a fleet of things that do individual tasks for you you don't usually log into them or interact with them directly you just set them up and gather data from them or have them control things. And then you have laptops which are well served by fedora and through a workstation and the desktops Katie etc etc. So kind of between those two fields there's this little area of mobile devices. Of course the biggest part of this is mobile phones. Well, you'll see I have some stats later but a third of the world has a smartphone now. So they're really, really out there a lot people use them a lot of people are using them as their primary device anymore even. They don't even have a laptop or desktop at home they just use their mobile phone for everything. One of a niche off of that is the tablet market, which became very popular a while back and then sort of peaked and now a lot of people have switched to just doing things on their phones that they would do on tablets before but there's still tablets in use out there. A lot of folks like them because the bigger screens and if you're not like carrying them around if you just have them in your house or something then they're a lot more handy to fit more data on. And then kind of final final section of that, which is just kind of up and coming is the wearables arena, and that includes watches. I've seen pendants brings all sorts of wearable devices they're even smaller than mobile phones may not even have a display but they have some sort of controls, and they want to be interactive with the user. You can see all these things. The thing that distinguishes them from the Internet of Things devices is that they're much more user oriented there. Things that need an input output system need to talk to users need to either have a display or some way to give feedback, whether that's display or audio or something like that. So that's kind of the area that we're looking at. I can't kind of look at the presentation in the chat so I'll have to look back at the chat at some point. Okay, so moving along. Let's talk a little bit about hardware. So a lot of people, if you talk to them about what we want to bring fedora to mobile devices. They go well, you know, Linux already won the desktop right because Android is using Linux kernel and you know everybody's using these Android phones and so, so we want right. Not necessarily Android is using Linux kernel certainly it is using its own kind of user space. It's also got a number of things that are not particularly open about it. The Android open source project is not developed in the open with lots of contributors. It's dumped into from Google periodically when they come up with a new version they just say here's the new version. And sure you can get look at the source code and use it and that's great, but you don't have a whole lot of influence over what they're going to be dumping in that repository or what you're going to be seeing down the line. Also Android devices are very prone to old source. So say a manufacturer comes out with Android phone and and they honor the license agreements on the open source on their phone and they put it up for use. But it's like five years old and they no longer maintain it and they don't care about it anymore and it's not particularly useful by itself. Also tend to have large patches and close drivers. A lot of phones have proprietary driver modules that talk to things like the bottom and the wireless and the screen and all sorts of things there. The amount of things that are open that you get are not as much as you might think. Additionally, most phones or a lot of phones these days have locked boot loaders so they're locked down such that you can't put anything else on them you can't really examine them. You can't really change anything. You're just going to be a consumer of whatever the manufacturer is sending you. This is a stat I alluded to or one of the stats I alluded to earlier. There's mobile phone market share right now 72% Android 26% iOS, you may do some math there and notice that there's 2% that's not those things. And that includes all all kinds of little tiny niche niche projects, but there is, there is a share there there is a little, a little niche there. Additionally, there's regulatory issues. I talked about the modem I mentioned the modem. A lot of manufacturers have don't want to release source for things. Yeah, your slides are not working. Oh, okay. Sorry about that folks. Anyway, here's the, the slide I was on. You can see there's a 72% Android share 26% iOS. So a lot of the hardware has regulatory issues they don't want to open source because they're afraid somebody's going to modify something that would transmit out of band etc. Although a lot of those concerns were also something that laptops had for a long time and have been sort of handled by just having to firmware deal with those things. Also, there's interoperability with wireless providers. There's different parts of the world that have different bands of wireless that they can accept etc. So that's also a kind of a burden at times. So, here's some trends that I've noticed you may disagree with me and that's fine. But the mobile phone refresh cycle has been slowing in recent years. What was for a long time. There were people, many people who were refreshing their phone like every year, you know the new Samsung's come out I'm going to get a new Samsung, the new iPhone comes out I'm going to get a new iPhone. And I'm seeing that trend as has moved to a three year cycle, and a lot of people are trying to push that and make it an even longer cycle. They're just not that many innovations that people are interested in the new Samsung is sure maybe faster maybe it has a better camera with more more pixels but you know at the end of the day it's it's not anything innovative. There are the full folding phones that are coming up and I think a lot of manufacturers hope that people like those. But I think a lot of people are thinking that they're kind of gimmicks and it isn't going to be that that interesting to them. One third of the world's population has a smartphone and consumers are pushing for longer support cycles. And this kind of supports the previous points. If you look at sales of smartphones in the world. In 2018, the smartphone sales stopped growing up until that point it was growing on a pretty, pretty good curve. But in 2018 they actually sold fewer smartphones than 2017. And of course there could be many reasons for this. Also possibly that the funds have gotten more and more expensive. So they don't need to sell as many or don't want to sell as many to consumers. And I think for all of these reasons, this is a good time to look at getting the open source folks involved in this, in this, this curve slide, a little history here. And you all can point out to point and laugh at these if you own any of them. This is kind of a history of free or open phone hardware. I had several of these. I had a neo free runner, I think I still do have it in a box somewhere. It ran Debbie in and it booted up Debbie in it was so cool you could SSH into it and you could install these packages and it was really neat. And but it never really quite went anywhere. Part of the problem was it never function very well as a phone. And as I recall there was still a bug with the modem where, if you were suspended it would accept a SMS message and wake the phone up, and then reboot. So that was not particularly nice. Yeah, the Nikias were were great I didn't have any of them but I knew folks that had them. They had a hardware keyboard on them which a lot of people liked, which few phones these days do. Being a supporter of lost causes. I had a Firefox OS phone. And it was not great, but it was better than the free runner it was not suitable as a day to day device. There were a lot of issues with Firefox OS which we can get into at some point, I suppose. Ubuntu had a touch phone that they put out not too long back, and then getting to the present purism finally released their Librim five phone in last year, I believe they finally shipped or year before. Anyway, and then the pine phone was released in late 2019 early 2020. So let's let's talk a little bit about the pine phone. Pine 64 is a company that makes, for the most part, single board computers, Internet of Things type devices arm chip devices, and they decided to get into the open phone market. They have committed to doing five years of production on the pine phone. So, two of those years are gone or one really because it was kind of late in the year of 2019. So they have committed to doing that and having parts available for that long. For any of you who know arm processors it's an all winner a 64 quad court processor that came out. Many years ago, well supported with Lenox, the Molly 400 GPU is also came out many years ago is well supported under Lenox. It has a five megapixel camera and in the back and a two megapixel camera in the front, and that's really not great these days but we'll talk more about that in a minute. It uses usb C to charge, but it is a usb C port, so you can actually provided your, you're booted on a kernel that supports that device, use any usb C device attached to it that you like. It has a 3000 milliamp hour battery. It's the same as a galaxy J7, which I guess was a very popular low end phone. I just checked last night on pine 64 store and I replaced the batteries $10, although they're actually out of them at the moment, but that goes to show you how cheap the parts are here. So, it's, it's pretty, pretty easy to swap the battery out also. Again, another thing that the higher end phones don't do anymore, that may be a selling point. And the screen is a 5.95 inch LCD, but you can see the resolution there is also not great it's 720 by 1440 pretty low end, but it looks pretty nice actually I must say. So one of the nice very nice things about the pine phone over any other phone hardware that you're going to be playing with is that it can boot from the micro SD card it has a micro SD slot in the back. And you can basically put whatever OS you want on that stick it in there it'll boot from the micro SD before it boots from internal EMMC. So this is really nice you can easily swap file systems, you can easily swap OS is you don't have to muck with messing with the internal stuff. So that's very, very handy. There's two actually two models that pine 64 is selling right now. There's a two gig model that has a 16 gigabyte EMMC. One is the internal flash, which is faster than micro SD, but it's obviously smaller. And they're also selling a larger one that has three gigabytes of memory and a 32 gig EMC. You can see there that the cheaper one is 150 bucks. The larger one is their dock addition they called it the convergence or something. And it comes with this little handy handy dandy USBC dock dangled dongle thing. Which is actually pretty nice it's again low end it has HDMI ethernet to usb usb a's. Surprisingly a USBC so you can actually plug this into power and and a device at the same time. So that's pretty cool. It's got hardware switches, actually I believe my next slide. Yeah, so I don't know how well you guys can see that or if you can zoom in on the picture any I can certainly post this presentation you can, you can grab that image off the net also. So this is kind of the back with the back cover off you can see the batteries here on the bottom. And there's a couple of slots for cards there the bottom one is the SIM card the top one is the micro SD card. And then there's a little bank of switches there, six little switches, and those actually allow you to turn on or off hardware components you can turn off the internal microphone you can turn off the X, the cat front camera the back camera. You can turn off the audio jack you can turn off the modem you can turn off the wireless. And those are actually hardware switches they actually physically interrupt that the OS does no longer sees that device. That's kind of interesting. Also the number six switch switches between regular audio in the audio jack and serial console, which you can get a serial console cable. I have one here. It's just a little USB a on one side and then a little headphone jack on the other. You can then see everything in principle. Finally, the other thing that's interesting on the back here is there's six little connectors there those are Pogo pins. Those are actually very useful going to be very useful for coming out with a keyboard slash battery expansion, and it's going to use the Pogo pins. I believe I have a slide next. Here's the serial console. So this blew my mind and I find it to this day. Amazing. The modem on this thing is a cute, cute tell EG 25G modem. It's actually a Cortex a seven 32 bit arm processor with a little bit of NAND on it, and it actually is running Linux itself. You can actually talk to it and you can actually completely replace the firmware on it and boot whatever you want. The post market OS guys actually have been working on a free OS for the modem. It's just wild to SSH into a pine phone and then use ADB to talk to the modem and log into it. So it's just, it's arm all the way down. Very cool stuff. So some upcoming add ons here. As I mentioned the keyboard back cover battery replacement. It's going to be have some firmware on it that you can upgrade the ITC. It connects on those Pogo pins on the back and it has a 6000 milliamp hour battery built into it. So with that and the internal battery, you're talking a lot of battery life on this sucker. And there's a kind of a little movie of this. I don't know if the movie will play. Oh, it is. So there's a, there's a recent movie of the prototype of the keyboard. So you can see the phone is actually inset into the, into the top of that and the bottom is the keyboard with the battery underneath it. And you still have your USB C port you can plug something else in, if you wish. That is not yet out, but they are working on. I'm getting it out very soon. As I mentioned, here's the little convergence dock thing. It's actually, I use it a lot for non pine phone things it said kind of a handy little Ethernet dongle or USB if you need it. Also they're working on a wireless charging back cover. It's basically a replacement back cover that again connects to those Pogo pins replaces the plane cover and it has coils for wireless charging on it. And that's what I think is not as far along as as the keyboard, but it should be coming up. So let's talk software. So there is a number of distributions that have pine phone variants images or whatnot. Post market. They actually have a lot of folks working there. There's been Jarrah, which is the devion version. There's Arch, there's Ubuntu, there's Fedora, there's Sailfish OS, there's just a ton of them. There's actually a guy out there. I don't know his actual real name, but his everyone calls him Maggie because that's his site. And he actually has created a written device drivers for almost all of the pine phone devices, the modem, the wireless, just tons of stuff. That was his video of the keyboard pine 64 got him to write the firmware and the firmware utilities for the keyboard. So he he actually has a kernel that he maintains with all of his patches against the upstream kernel and as support for all those things and a lot of those distros are just using that kernel from him. Some of that stuff has been upstreamed very little though, as we'll talk about here in a moment. So what's the Fedora status here. We have a remix. If you go to the, if you just search for pine phone Fedora you'll go to the wiki page that has a link to the remix. It's just using the mega kernel and the Fedora user space. So it's based on raw hide. I believe all the packages that we're using user space packages are in now to the main collection Fedora. But the kernels of course the big thing vanilla kernel or vanilla Fedora, if you take just a raw hide image and boot. It actually boots fine. Now, thanks to Peter Robinson we straightened out the you boot and it boots fine. It comes up actually in a graphical desk desktop. However, there is no connectivity whatsoever. There's no wireless, no Bluetooth, no USB, no modem, which makes it very difficult to to get anywhere. Additionally, on both the remix and vanilla Fedora user space is slow. Sometimes you'll start something and it'll take, you know, 20 seconds, 20, 30 seconds for something to start up if it's especially if it's big. A lot of the desktops are improving rapidly and I'm going to get to that here in just a slide or two. Go on. So, talking about user space now and desktops. The, the mainstream desktops that are out there actually do run fine. But obviously they're not suited for a screen like this and a touch interface, and so forth you can run no. There are dialogues that you can't like reach because the input or close boxes out of space, things like that. However, you can actually run a scale to a scale on it. And if you don't mind it being very small, you can actually get a pretty functional. No, that's actually plasma desktop. Obviously, you're going to have to worry about the input and things like that but it actually, it actually runs. There are also some mobile oriented desktops out there. Foch is the one is a sort of a no based desktop written by the Liberam folks for the Liberam five phone plasma mobile has been around longer than that. It's making leaps and bounds. There's half a dozen more out there that you could choose from. And the difference here early is, is there or anything for that screen so like in Foch, you can get it, you do an overview but the overview gives you application icons on the bottom and your applications at the top and you can switch between them or cancel them or, or whatever and it's, it's much more designed for that interface. And you get a little top panel with battery and power wireless and so forth. Flat packs work fine. Air 64 flat packs either from flat hub or fedora itself. I have several applications that I've pulled from flat hub and they just they run PG keen. So, talking user space again. So right now, the camera is another thing that is only supported by the mega kernel, he has a driver for the camera. It's not a regular driver, as you would expect for a laptop or whatnot. And because of this there's a special program that someone has written that talks to his driver of the user space cycle megapixels. It's great. It's a five megapixel camera it's never going to be super amazing but it's actually gotten usable I would say now. The colors are a little washed out to my eye but in the viewfinder the colors are really washed out but if you actually take a picture and look at it. It actually looks pretty good. That is making some dramatic improvements although ideally we want the camera to be a regular video for Lenox device that can be used by the any application. So there's an application called calls which obviously does phone stuff phone calls work fine with the mega kernel and regular minimum private that it has SMS works MMS is a little more difficult. It's, I believe it's working now but there's still issues. chatty is a SMS application also interestingly doing matrix and MMS. There's feedback D which does led vibration stuff notification type things. And then squeakboard for the virtual keyboard of course you can use the virtual keyboard you like there are several to choose from but squeakboard seems to be what most folks are using these days. So, here's the daily driver dream or things that we almost have. As I mentioned SMS MMS voice calls working ebook readers caliber works but it's pretty slow. But you can, you can read ebooks and manage them successfully. There are several OTP applications out there that are perfectly functional. There's several Twitter mastodon clients that are out there, both in flat as flat packs and as regular food or apps. G Potter works great for for podcasts works great as an RSS reader. No maps works but location does not work yet. It's due to the modem meeting a firmware blob loaded to handle the GPS. That hasn't been quite sorted out yet. So things we need here's a kind of a list of things. These are kind of my daily driver things that I would like. Other people have other applications of course, there's no real good weather application. There's no email clients out there but there's none that are really very well suited to a tiny screen like on Android I would use canine but I, there's nothing like that that I am aware of in fedora right now. Obviously we need encrypted disks and installs post market OS actually does this already it's just a matter of fixing the installer to handle that. There's no good music player or MPD client that runs very well on the teeny tiny screen. And I'd love to hear if folks have no of things that do these or things for me to try just do let me know. The next spot is another thing that I don't believe is implemented yet and a lot of people use and find Android emulation is another thing that is going to be really necessary. And there's several things going along here there's and box but there's a couple of forks of inbox they're doing pretty well. No Neil I have not tried to puzzle mobile yet I meant to but I have not had enough time to do it or not recently and then fascia certainly. But in any case Android emulation is going to be needed, because there are lots and lots of Android one off applications out there there's like, you know your bank has one or your supermarket has one or your drone has one or, you know, all these that are just one offs that nobody, nobody has open sourced yet, and better pictures is definitely something we want. So the future let's talk about the future. One thing, the thing that we absolutely need the most of right now is some connectivity and mainline kernel. So if we have that we can start iterating faster on developing the rest of things but we need to get that connectivity so that you can load, you know, you micro SD card with fedora and apply updates and be able to log into it remotely and things like that it's really a drag to not be able to ssh it and be able to use a real keyboard if you need to do a lot of typing. So that would be anything but I take Bluetooth, you could do Bluetooth connection, I would take modem, I would take Wi Fi, you know, any of those would be great. And as I said they're all in the Maggie kernel, but they're not upstream yet and I think a lot of that is because it needs somebody to clean them up and get them to the point where the upstream kernel is going to be okay taking them and to commit to to maintaining them so that's a hard, hard person to find but if there's anyone out there that is interested in doing that we would, we would love that forever. And one thing I don't think it would be very nice for us is if there was more mainline usable devices post market OS is working on some of the Nexus phones. We can get other phones that are unlocked enough to where we can load fedora on them and and start using them. I think that would be wonderful. The pine phone is particularly well suited for this because the micro SD booting and the well supported other things but there are possibly cases where we could have mainline usable devices in the next years or few years. And then once we have that we can iterate on user space. We can start producing images daily. And that we can move eventually once we get that going, we can start moving to an oyster based image because I think that is very well suited to to this use case, being able to flash forward back and use your apps out of containers so let's see. Yes, that takes us to Q&A and of course I have not read anything in the chat. So, I'll just hop over to the Q&A and see what we got here. I guess I'll start at the bottom. Stuart was asking where the pine phone was built. Yes, that was answered by Matthew. Very good. Yeah, they basically have a lot of manufacturers that they use in Hong Kong and China for their actual manufacturing. Let's see. I can do other stuff with cell phones. There'd be rugged variant of pine phone or possibly a rugged shell for it like there is, for example, the pine phone. Yes, that's a great question. If you look at the pine 64 store, they already have a couple of, I think there's three cases there was a gel case, tempered glass and a hard shell case. So, you should be able to rig something up. The phone itself is really pretty durable. It's the back clips on pretty tightly. And I've dropped mine a number of times and it's pretty sturdy. So, will there ever be a fedora device comparable to an iPod kind of a phone sized tablet? I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, once once there's a music app, certainly you could use something like the pine phone for that. You can use micro SD cards. I have a couple of hundred, you know, they've gotten so cheap. I have a couple of hundred 28 gig ones. You can fill a lot of music. Be your needs. Let's see. Also interested in accessibility. Accessibility features iPhone. I don't think any of that stuff is particularly great there so far the accessibility. I think that's something that's going to come as the stack matures more. But at least, I think it will come, whereas with other proprietary solutions, it's not necessarily something that's going to happen. But if we might see another attempt at a modular phone, I'd love that. People have tried it several times and it's never really taken. But, sure, I'd love it. I don't know of any off the top of my head. The framework laptop, which is very repairable and modular is just coming out now. A lot of folks were trying to get them to do a phone. I don't know if they will, but that was a thought anyway. Next question I recently learned about Google semi secret how initiative simply put, you can install universal wrong. Trouble compatible phone US figures it out. I don't know. I have not heard of that initiative. But the pine phone boots with very standard you boot. The same way that your Raspberry Pi or your rock 64 or whatever would be so I don't see why it wouldn't. But I don't know specifically if they've tailored for that. Let's see Neil asks any chance the mobile sync can drive a change to have Ashman and binder binder fs enabled as Kerbal sub package for mobile. That's a good idea. We can certainly push for that. I don't know of things that are using that now but I think that would be very helpful down the road certainly. So yeah, we can I can bring that up at the next mobility segment. The which are every second Monday on IRC so Do I use my pine phone as a daily driver Nick asks no I do not. It's just not quite there yet. But for a device that costs $150 it's really really fun to tinker with and I think it may get to be a daily driver. I don't want to buy another phone I don't really particularly want to, you know, pay lots of money to Google to decide my fate and have all of my data. But it's just it's just not there yet. I don't think at least for my needs. John asks, can pine phone call over matrix or signal. Oh, that's a good question. I think that it could provided your, you need Wi-Fi for that I believe, or do you, maybe you don't. I would think that it would work fine. I've been using Neo chat on my pine phone and it actually works fine as matrix client. So I have not tried actual calls but I can give that a shot. John asks, how is it with notifications from applications running in the background. Last time I tried it, it didn't really work. They, Fosh now does do notifications. I have not tried plasma, it probably does a better job of it because it's more mature. But there are notifications now. So like for example the matrix client I was using if somebody sent me a message. I actually put a notification up that you could see what application notified and what the message was. So I think it's improved since, since last time we tried it, but it's. Yeah, it's sometimes difficult it also doesn't go away unless you go to that notification itself if you, there's no way to swipe it away last I checked. But it's better than better than nothing. I would complain if they find me using it. I have an amusing story about this. I have T mobile here in the United States and I was swapping swapping my sim over to my pine phone to test things. And this is before SMS was working. So I swapped it over and I tried an SMS where I had somebody send me an SMS. You know, nothing happened. It didn't work. So I moved my sim back over and I got about four text messages from T mobile saying, your your SMS isn't working something's wrong with your phone please come into a T mobile office to something's matter. So, other than that I have not had any problems they really don't care if I have used it on their mobile network find aside that SMS issue. And that was probably some sort of detection where they're, you know, have some kind of automated detection that SMS is not set up correctly. So yeah, I don't I don't think that there's any problem with it is any provider where you can bring your own phone I would expect that it would, it would work fine. My phone actually has a very wide range of bands that it can use so it actually works fairly well in both the US and Europe. At least from what I understood. Yeah, I haven't had any operators freak out. So let's see. Let's go back to the chat. Yeah, Neil mentions those things are for inbox for yeah, I'm not sure inbox is going to be very easy at all. But there are a couple of works of it or read imaginings of it that might be end up being better. Hard to say at this point. One of the one of the nice things about the pine phone is that because you can move it off micro SD. It's so easy you don't, you can leave the, the OS that it comes with, which right now is Mobian on the emc and just use compact flash micro SD. And, you know, if you mess up your micro SD card, the big deal it's cheap little thing you can pull it out and put another one in you can reflash it, you can use it for something else. It's, it's really easy to test things out. Which is really really nice. Yeah way droid is actually one of the ones that I was looking at. I have not had any problems with T mobile here connecting to it, although I did actually update the firmware on the modem while back, just when I was playing with it. Yeah, hard to say. This has proved to be very difficult and I know folks in Europe don't care or use MMS at all anymore. But unfortunately here in backward America. We use MMS, all the providers use MMS for group messages for multimedia stuff like pictures or movies that people transfer. It's proved to be pretty annoying to implement and it's getting implemented as part of both a manager and chatty is doing some of it and etc etc but I think it'll, it'll be working really well. Let's see. Any case, I think really for, you know, $150 device, it's, it's pretty fun to play with. I think it will get to the point where if you're not picky, you can use it as a daily driver probably, or hopefully sometime in the upcoming months. I don't want to make an exact prediction but and more things are getting supported over time and the user space is getting better. And I think, you know, this is a good opportunity. Matthew mentioned in in the council talk that, you know, this is a an area where Microsoft had to back out because they got their cells trounced by Android and iOS. They just have just the massive, massive amount of the market share but we're not trying to make money here we're just trying to control our own fate we're trying to spread open source we're trying to scratch our own edge we're trying to help other people who have a similar edge. So I think this may be an opportunity for us to, you know, step into that niche and widen it a little bit. Like we did in the PC market. Yep, the it's really nice that it's really nice that it's it's so easy to a DMC can be rewritten also you just need a special tool command to rewrite it. I actually on my phone here I have. It came with a post market OS on it, and I actually did an encrypted install and promptly forgot the encryption password but I boot from micro SD so much that I haven't really bothered to go in and stomp on the emc. Yes, exactly. And Neil we're talking about the sentiment about the inspirational speech about mobile. Yeah, I mean if we were trying to make big bucks in the mobile arena. No, there's no chance but if we're trying to carbon that little open source niche for ourselves, then maybe, maybe we got something there. Is it breakable unbreakable. Yeah, I don't know really how you would break it. Because if you break the emc, you can just boot off micro SD and vice versa. Yeah, I can't really actually see how you can break it. I mean, you can smash it or break the connector or break the micro SD or something like that. But yeah, I don't think there's really any easy way to break it. There's some more Q&A stuff maybe. What is the command for flashing the emc? I'd have to look it up. It's an open source C program. I think it was actually written by Maggie. It's just a little flash thing that puts the it basically puts the emc in the right mode to be flashed. It's, I think it's very simple, very simple code. I don't remember the name of it though. Yes, let's, I only have a couple of minutes left, but there's a, do you own a pine phone? How about throwing in a quick little poll in there? Do you plan to buy a pine phone? I guess it's part of this. So a lot of considers, so that's good. Jump drive, do you mean can you attach a jump drive to it? Or the connector is a USB-C, so anything that's USB-C, you could plug a USB-C jump drive into it, no problem. Oh, jump drive, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, jump drive is the name of that thing. All right, everyone. Well, I think that's about it. If you have questions, I'm around anywhere. Also, if you want to hop over to the Mobility SIG, we have Fedora Mobility on IRC, and I believe our matrix channel is something longer than that. It is Fedora on Pine Phone, actually. So a lot of folks hang out there, can answer your questions. It's fine. So thank you everyone. I hope it was interesting.