 already recording, so we're good to go. And we'll just get started here. So welcome. Just wanted to go through, hoping to rip through this in about an hour, might take a little bit longer. If you have any questions, just go ahead and ask. I've got my assistant Becky monitoring the Q&A channel, so I won't miss it. I normally do miss it on these Zoom conversations. So my goal here today is to get you a bit of information, a bit of training, so you have a better chance of success as you approach projects with either self-sovereign identity or with blockchain. Both of these technologies are really changing the landscape. I want to make sure you have your background, but you also don't lose your mind with all of the tech gobbledygook that you'll hear with, you know, Merkel trees. If I see Merkel tree again, please someone electric shock me or something, as it's not an appropriate term for this audience, we're aimed at more of the business type of user. So what I'm going to do is teach you this by showing you how companies and organizations, whether it's governments, not-for-profits, for-profit corporations, how they're approaching and attacking projects with either self-sovereign identity, blockchain, or some other early-stage disruptive technology. I will try not to use this phrase disruptive. I do believe that self-sovereign entity does fall in that category, but let's, we'll get into the, we'll make you the believer and you just decide around that and I'll stop referring to it. But also make sure you understand another little trick on how do you pick your team so you don't get nailed before you even start and that you nail your project correctly, you get it nailed. So just a real quick, I don't want to dwell on myself, this isn't about me, this is about getting you a bunch of information you can execute on, but my background's about 20 years I realized I've hit the frickin' 20-year career mark. I'm not happy about that, but I'm having a blast actually, so it's been an interesting few years. I've got a, well, not a checkered past, but a dark past and some projects are classified and many are totally wide open, but I started out in search-and-rescue software, moved into combat search and rescue into special ops, built software for managing critical disasters for Canada, the US, NATO allies. And about seven years ago, broke away from that. It's a great business as far as making an impact, it's not a great business. And the lessons I learned there have really come in and helped me now. Right now, I'm an investor, I'm a board member, multiple companies, board advisor. I also consult with some key strategic clients, those that are impacting the investments that we have, or we're considering, or our key projects just have an overall larger scale impact. I also advise CEOs, CIOs, CTOs, where they are looking at or executing on self-sovereign and blockchain projects. Self-sovereign identity is the number one play. Blockchain is a quick, is a close second. It's, they kind of interleave, if someone's into self-sovereign identity, they almost all are looking at blockchain as well as types of solutions. It's kind of the mindset of those who are actually looking at the technology and see what they can do to make change. One other key minor point, although it's a labor of love on this one, for the last five years I've chaired an international standard called the Hospital Availability Exchange. It's finally going to, if anyone's ever heard of it, I doubt you have, but it's the kind of thing that when the earthquake happens, a disaster happens like Haiti where you can stand up facilities and stuff. It doesn't have a lot of bearing on here, but it's one of these near and dear to my heart projects. All right, that's enough about me. Want to cover off what it is you're going to learn during this hour or so that we have together? We're going to basically teach you, I'm going to teach you how to look at self-sovereign identity and blockchain. So you can figure out the business impacts, not the technology impacts. This isn't about how you rewire the plumbing of your systems. It's about how you consider your business, how you consider your relationships with your partners, suppliers, your customers. All of those impacts are really, really critical. Also going to talk about why blockchain and self-sovereign identity are really, to me, the underlying story, the real story with all the hype that's going on right now with cryptocurrencies. I saw a thing about Bitcoin today. I believe there were some asks over 20 grand, $20,000 US earlier today if I did see the chart correctly. That's about all I'm going to see on cryptocurrency. Oh, I gave another couple of warnings on cryptocurrency, but that's more just to make sure the cryptocurrency geeks aren't taking up spots in this presentation. So I'm going to also teach you how to avoid failures from the start. This comes out of my past, my high success rate with projects that go in what I call operations, and a couple of things I didn't even know I was doing that made a huge difference in whether or not technology got adopted, whether it was actually a successful project. And it started out day one, and I had no idea that I'd done it. That'll be, for you, predictable, simple, and it's completely business-level. It's not a technical trick. It's actually just more of a business and human type of trick. But also, another way to, as we talked about self-sarm identity, a new way to consider digital identity from a finance perspective. Right now, if you ask any CIO, even many CEOs, they see digital identity as both an expense and a liability for the company. I'm going to show you how we turn that upside down. I want to let you know why this is important to you right now. The biggest thing I'm seeing right now is the blockchain advice and self-sarm identity advice is pretty much dead wrong from a business owner perspective. The fact is right now that blockchain and self-sarm identity are really changing the fundamental underlying internet, and you can either capitalize on these shifts or miss them completely. Another reason this is important is that right now, I know who's looking at this. I know who's kicking the tires, who is both learning, discovering new ways to do things, changing their existing business processes a little bit to adopt and change how things... I'll give you a couple examples, I'm not going to name any names, but I want to be clear on something. I want to make sure that you're sitting here in this call. I want to make sure that this presentation is for you. I respect you are a busy person, as am I. I want to make sure that this is the right type of session for you. So if you're job, if you're responsible for either assessing new technology, you want to make sure you're taking the correct approach with it. Or if as a business person, you're looking at blockchain and wondering what's up with you, you hear it about it everywhere, you hear about Bitcoin, Ethereum, as crypto currencies, but also this underlying blockchain technology that is changing supply chains. It has the potential to rewire the whole internet. Some of it's hype, some of it is actually really happening right now. But also, as I mentioned earlier, if you realize that digital identity right now is an unsustainable expense and liability and you want to flip that equation and turn it into revenue and asset, I want to show you a couple things to think about here. One last mention here about cryptocurrency. If you're here to talk about cryptocurrency, to learn about ICOs and tokens, please leave there's a limited number of seats in this thing. And I want to make sure that people have the right stuff. Right information and we're not going to be covering that anymore. House rules, nothing I give you here is what I would call a silver bullet. Hopefully there won't be, but there might be some swearing. I do get agitated and excited at times. But given that I'm more talking to you, I should be behaving myself. If I get into any intense questions and stuff, I might be bad. Also, most people who attend this kind of webinar do one or two things that really jeopardize them getting any positive results. They either don't do the work or they aren't willing to change their own approaches, tactics and patterns. It's up to you to take what you have, what you learn here and run with it. It's yours to take and just go on. And another, I guess I did get a little head over. There's so much traffic guys on cryptocurrency. I just can't believe how people just they hear blockchain and assume that everybody's talking here about cryptocurrency. That's it. We're done with it. So I do want to have a small confession. I do have an advantage over most people in the business and technical realm when it comes to some of these technology, because I'm a reformed, what I call a reform software developer, reformed chief technology officer. I have founded, run multiple startups. I've been involved in what I would call disruptive and some explosive and some technologies that have absolutely bombed, but were disruptive and then later came back and popped out for my whole career. So now 20 years. I've also spent millions of dollars specifically on digital identity. I would add millions of dollars on data exchange technologies as well. I consider blockchain to be a data exchange technology. This money has been my own. It has been investors money, clients money, and that's a really expensive lesson. So I just want to back up a tiny little bit and you know, where did this all start? As I said, I've spent millions on digital identity and on trying to move data between hundreds and hundreds of systems. And I've seen all of these crazy different trends that, you know, that all these so all these different API approaches are going to solve it all. Enterprise service buses, message buses, they're all going to solve it all and they just didn't work. So what it was what I noticed was that these technologies, both digital identity and information exchange, really are taking about 10 to 25 percent, depending on the project, of both the development budgets, and they all had ongoing expense and liability as projects went on. There was very little value, but it was a cost of, you know, they were table stakes in order to get things going. You had to continue and maintain and build on and maintain relationships and all this type of thing just to keep your systems running. So if I look back when I was about when I wound up the operations of my last sort of military command and control intelligence sharing project, at that point in time, we had tons of projects and products. We were we were helping search and rescue. We were doing it at one point in time. We in order to make payroll had created a wire and cable printing machine. It was interesting, but also life critical command and control systems. All each and every one of them had really tough identity problems, especially once you get into classified spaces and the fact that you have people acting in roles. And the role is what's legislated to have the job, not the person. Things got a little hairy. And what ended up happening is we really had no way to accomplish the goals. So we did what any good engineer does. We used brute force and we did what people were saying was impossible repeatedly. It just wasn't at all sustainable. See, the problem is both digital identity and information exchange, moving data around between systems, between parties, have the same exact problem. One is the more groups you add to a shared environment, the worse things get. As you add each member who needs to share, if you have two members, it's easy. For now, every one of those person has to talk to three different people. You get to 10. Well, now I have to talk to nine different people. Each of us have a subtle different flavor. We actually was out in a meeting with the CIO for the province of British Columbia last week. And we were talking about amongst a bunch of his players and we had some pretty heavy hitter systems integrator CTOs. And we came up with a model that really is collapsing under its own gravity. The cost gets so high that the only thing you're going to do is work with your tightest partners because it's too expensive to start adding people into the pool. And I have no idea why there's a rubber duck on my screen here, but I'm just going to go with it. The past, let's talk about the past federated identity. I was involved in federated identity. I remember spending hundreds of thousands on this. I actually remember a project out in the government level project where two departments were going to chain their systems together. They spent a million and a half dollars to wire it up, had everything all figured out until the camera was a privacy or ethics officer stepped in and said, wait a second, you cannot share doctor and nurse information into another system. So it was all wired up. Cannot do it. We've seen people who have integrated the geek level APIs, shared databases, if you're at the C-suite, you might have heard of system of systems, but every single one of them fails when there's any substantial adoption, which means the more people you add, the more expensive it gets, the less margin there is, and they all just fail. And fail, they did. So we sat there, for example, we created world-class software with over 500 agencies in Canada, US, NATO allies, sharing information and identity. It quickly was an awesome idea, great support for them from the community, but it really rapidly became unsustainable and impossible. So we just dumbed it all down, back down to come on and log into our system. We had to create our own version of you in order for you to come into our system. I had to own, in this case, your digital identity as far as our perspective and our relationship was. Now, I kind of reached a bit of a turning point. About two years ago, I started a new venture with one of my partners and some other investors, working with people who own multiple corporations in pharma, healthcare, finance, petroleum, just general business people. All of them had the same two questions. It really kept them up at night, and these two questions are, what don't I see and what don't I know? Because these questions here really determine your success and failure because this is what you will either get sideswiped by, meaning your business never saw it coming. Imagine Blockbuster offering to buy or considering buying Netflix for a very small amount of money. And then a few years later, they're absolutely utterly gone. They just didn't see it coming. They didn't see it. And also there's the what don't I know is either you're going to get sideswiped or this is one that scared actually what I would call the most proactive of the business people I work with. This one scares them the most is the what don't I know and what am I missing out on? Meaning something is changing and what am I missing on? And this whole approach is just, wow, I mean, my in the past two years, I mean, I was having fun before, but oh my word, am I having just an absolute blast now? And let's talk a little bit about blockchain. Blockchain entered up when when Bitcoin showed up. It was, you know, kind of cool Bitcoin. I mean, I don't even want to do the valuation of the guy who bought two pizzas in England for what it would probably be now, given today's price. I mean, I don't know how much, but probably $100 million worth of Bitcoin. It was cool. But underneath it was this distributed ledger. The idea that we could have an immutable distributed ledger, a way to share information with real security, trust, certainty, totally decentralized. This truly did change how information is shared. But then things went quiet. I had my Bitcoin landed and I had, you know, minor interest in buying it. Damn it. There he goes. But it went quiet. Things were really kind of on the quiet side. But then I forgot about it until I was listening to a credit union podcast due to one of the companies we'd invested in. And a digital identity solution was discussed and it was different in that it was sitting on top of a blockchain. Which the ramification started to to ricochet through my head having spent millions of dollars in them over 10 years on digital identity. Mostly because I had to, not because I wanted to. I had to in order to meet the business needs of of our customers in order to meet the technical needs, we had to own your identity. You had to log into my system. I owned it. I owned your identity. But now the costs of doing that and the liability there has disappeared. This is where I used to one of my claims to fame as a consultant when I first wound up my my last company was back in over, say 2010 about 2016 is I was completely and utterly vendor neutral. I am no longer on one technology vendor neutral. I think that sovereign, which is open source, open network. I think that I believe as well do as do a large number of leaders around the world that it is probably going to change the identity of the for the internet. It's going to add an identity layer. So when this dropped down, I found it was open to all. It was secure, decentralized and to be blunt for weeks every week. I kept thinking, oh, there's a stumbling block here that I've been burned on before and boom, no, it's gone. It just kept going on and on week after week, month after month. That was funny. A book came out. I should just realize that my video is not even on. Well, should be on now. I'm going to show you this book. But it wasn't about identity. This book, Blockchain Revolution goes through and talks about a bunch of different industries that are being truly rocked. And I didn't believe some of it. I don't know much about, for example, I do know lots about the government and democracy. Art and media, I wasn't paying a lot. I'm an engineer and I wasn't paying a lot of attention to, you know, what does it mean for digital rights management if I buy a movie? How do they know it's me? All these types of things with blockchain and actually becomes pretty darn easy to track me and say, hey, by the way, you've got the 1080p version and the 4k version just came out. Would you like to upgrade it? And know that it isn't me just handing off a digital copy of something. But the impacts were changing. They talked about how back on democracy, how do you secure the vote government? How do you make sure that some things are just automated? Assuming you meet the criteria. It's all written in a mutual ledger. The finance banking and payments. I'm going to go through a banking example, just a very simple one. We've all gone through. It's not a very complex one. Travel, how does it, you know, make a virtual Airbnb where Airbnb disappears or becomes less of a middleman? And the ledger is where trust is and where information about where I can go and do stuff is transportation, same sort of thing. But also even digital social networks. So each of these groups, each of these chapters was covered off in quite a good bit of detail. But and the top scouts are they're out of Toronto, not too far from me in Ottawa, Canada. And they missed something. They really missed a chapter and the biggest topic at all, which the funny thing was, it was actually covered in each and every chapter. There was this sort of a theme underlying and it's almost, I don't know if they did this on purpose. I think they did. I think they missed it. I don't think they did it on purpose to make it as a theme. But the underlying piece, because the authors missed it over and over, they mentioned it, each and every chapter, almost every page at times, was identity, which was on the blockchain. That's my addition. But they spoke about the hinted at it and it just blew my mind that they had missed the concept of identity being fundamentally what I would call the shift that before blockchain existed, this could not have happened. A year later, I'm now an investor. I advise Evernoon, which is the company that gave away Sovereign, which is the self-sovereign identity network. I'm now a part of teams that are breaking down barriers in governments, in not-for-profits, in corporations. But what's funny is we're seeing these barriers that what was hard before, logging in from my system to yours, I don't want to use this and it's hard to maintain the privacy of my stuff. One of these barriers are actually just falling down. They just don't exist once the paradigm shifts in your head and you use the approach that I own my identity and what we really own together is a relationship. The last part of the business shift is instead of owning the liability of identity when you never really wanted to, you really didn't want to. That's not what you went into business for. You went into business to own a relationship with a customer that you could provide value to them and extract some of that value. That's how you make money. I'm also speaking with leaders around the world on stages in boardrooms and development teams with amazing, amazing groups. And a huge and diverse set of companies and organizations are diving in. I look at this and I try to step back and I think to myself, what really changed? The underlying technology of blockchain is a factor. It's a factor in identity, but really to me it's only a minor one now that it's there. Because what I'm seeing right now is loads of teams are diving in and actually trying to make change but they're failing to get anything done. But a few teams right now are crushing it. This is what I'm really here to share with you. The reason is that these teams are looking at things differently. They're looking at the high churn and high change projects which self-solving identity and blockchain are both totally differently than the companies and the organizations that are attacking needs that are failing. So what's the difference? And here's where we get into kind of the meat of stuff here. I look at this, why are these organizations succeeding? Or other ones who look very, very similar? Why are they failing? And strangely enough, it's not technology. As a former software developer, then founder and CTO of multiple companies, I used to believe in the beginning days that 95% of everything could be solved by technology. I'm now down to the technology being about 5%. So I've kind of flipped around there. Just let me have a sip of coffee here. So the actual funny thing is the success factor is actually anti-technology. And I'm gonna teach you how to do it yourself. It's not complex, but here's what you're gonna learn. Couple of things. How do you structure your team to make sure you keep your success factor high and why what I would call the natural structure is exactly the wrong thing to do. Another phrase anybody in the tech who deals with the tech world will hear, defining your requirements, you need to have better requirements. It's absolutely not appropriate, I don't think it's appropriate in any case, but it's certainly not appropriate for new technology like self-sovereign identity or blockchain. These are almost interchangeable for most of the discussion we're having here today. I think actually using requirements actually might be one of the causes of failure. If you pin your project on requirements, I'm gonna bet you're 80% or more likely to fail. But also why pushing ownership of digital identity back into the hands of your customer. So imagine you logging with your identity into your bank, logging in with your identity into a social network, logging with your identity into a business. So you actually log in, now they have a whole relationship and what rights and permissions you have, that's inside the house. But this is, you know, it sounds crazy, but so did bringing your own cell phone sound crazy a few years ago. I'm also gonna teach you how to quickly identify if the digital identity solution of some of you received, not all of you, I realized I kind of really buggered up the time zones and the email tried to automate some stuff that I shouldn't have tried to automate. Well, there are two things I'm gonna teach you here that I also have separate little videos you can teach yourself on. But how do you find out if something is really self sovereign? I've seen, I don't know how many companies take what they have, add this veneer of new shiny marketing and say that we have a self sovereign identity solution and it's absolutely not self sovereign. But you'll get a couple of quick business questions, technical ones, business questions to fix that. But also confirming that your organization should be looking at a self sovereign identity or even completely separate from that, a blockchain project or should it wait? We're gonna cover that off real quickly. How the proper digital identity technology changes the economics for organization. I've hinted at this, how self sovereign identity changes the expense and liability and flips it around to be revenue and asset. But hang on, let's talk a little bit about blockchain here. As I mentioned earlier, other than a couple very, very, sorry one sec, there's a, Tim, it sounds like you're getting an intermittent ringing. If anyone else is getting an intermittent ringing, can you drop a question into the Q and A? I'm not think I'm doing anything here. Unless it was this, maybe I shouldn't be fidgeting. I'm gonna throw that over there. Let me know if you're getting that still, Tim. Thanks for passing that on, Becky. So everything I'm teaching here, with the exception of one thing, what is your solution really self sovereign identity? Every technique and strategy I'm teaching here applies directly to blockchain. It also applies directly to any technology that I would consider to be high churn, new, quote, disruptive, in that they're hard to approach technically and they change business. That's, it's a hard space, but all of these techniques apply exactly there. That's been a lot of the success I've had in the past. And they apply everywhere that blockchain makes sense in other places. But make sure that blockchain makes sense as well. After this, I'm gonna email you a really good blog entry that covers off a bunch of the decision models. The first one is pretty funny. I like it. It's David Birch. He's big in the finance banking space and is very well savvy on blockchain. You can see his little flow chart here. Do I need blockchain? The answer is no. Now I don't believe that's true, but there actually are quite a few cases where people are doing blockchain and I'm looking up and saying, great. So now you've got a slow, bloated, complex database. Boy, that's fun. When you could have used routine technology and finished things 10 times faster. So let's go back to the overall training. I'm gonna talk to you about the kind of the shift that's happening on the digital identity. And I really gotta say that this shift in digital identity, the impact can't be understated, but I'm not gonna dwell on that too much. The reason, one of the reasons is that the internet has been missing identity since day one. Identity was never considered when the internet was created. When the protocols were created from the hardware all the way up to the software layers, if, and now it is here. Guys, I have to, I have a personal beef. I can't let myself live with that spelling. So bear with me, I'm back, I had to fix that. But the missing identity layer means that we have had to hook up identity to like bailing wire and duct tape to the internet. And this is a major reason why a lot of the cybersecurity issues exist is identity was never considered, arguably wasn't possible at the scale that the internet is at now up until blockchain distributed ledger technology came out. Here's a couple of things I wanna ask you for as far as that paradigm shift is ask yourself these questions. And this is on the business side. It's also, if you're in government, not for profit, you have customers, you have citizens, you have recipients. Here's a couple of questions that sort of really kind of starts shaking things up for my, in my skull, and then work really well when I'm dealing with senior executives, is why do I own my customer's identity? And the answer is, well, I have to. Well, that's not really an answer. Then we dive in a few more questions. You know, what does owning my customers or my employees or my partners identity cost me as an expense and as a liability? Now think about all of the breaks and stuff and all of the hacks and releases. It's been insane. Ask yourself again now, why do I own my customer's identity? Do you want to have this expense and liability? The reason you own it is because you had to. There was no other solution before but it's also you have to ask yourself another question. I'll go into a control thing but what do you really want to own and control? I'd argue it's not the identity. The thing you want to own and control is the relationship with your employees, with your customer and how the relationship works pinned on a trusted identity. So I wanna ask you a question here is one of the fundamental things I've been saying for 15 years now is control only what you must influence the rest because the cost of control rises quickly. It becomes, if you had, I've driven to draw on this as a line that describes a circle of cost. When you look at the business relationship it is that relationship between you and I. You don't need to own my identity. You just need to trust that the identity that I'm using suffices to meet your business needs. Sorry, just one second. I got a little chat item here. That was just, okay, that was Tim. Ask him about the ringing. So hopefully the ringing sound has disappeared. But the reason you own my identity was you had to make a copy of me in order to fulfill your business needs. It's a copy of me. It's got my private information that you don't necessarily need. You don't need my date of birth other than perhaps to know that I can walk into a bar because I'm over 19. It drives that expense and liability. I talked about it. I knew a bit more about that. It kind of interlaces for the whole presentation. But keep in mind that as you control more and more of things that really aren't your problem, my identity, you decide with your trust or not. We have a relationship. As you control more, your costs go up. So what changes here is when you focus on the relationship between me and you, the company and its employee, things change. And this is what business is both the for-profit businesses, nonprofit government. This is what we're all about. It is about relationships that let us do things. These traditional barriers start to fall down and they cease to be cost. And actually some of them turn into actual benefits. And that's kind of a crazy statement here. But I'm gonna go through an example here that really drives home the problem and the solution here. And it's about what's called know your customer. You'll see KYC shows up. So I look at, you know, how does a cost shift to a benefit? Right now, know your customer is a terrible, terrible phrase, banks use all the time. All blockchain companies in the finance space are chasing what's called KYC, know your customer, and AML, anti-money laundering. Because there are hard problems to solve. Adding some kind of an identity, self-sovereign or not, and adding blockchain that proves you did when you have what you say and it hasn't changed really becomes valuable. But the reality is that know your customer has a deeper problem. So a lot of these FinTechs, these financial technology companies are disappearing. I'm gonna talk about a very simple example. Where typically you receive a bill and at some point in time you wanna open a bank account. You bring that bill with you, paper-wise, to the bank and request an account. There's then a manual process, the minimum cost a bank attributes to doing this. There's two things you need to do. One is provide government ID and that bill. People are showing up with fake bills and fake identity, fake paper and plastic, they say, fake paper and plastic. All the time. So the minimum cost for the most basic of things is $25 because they have to phone the telco. Can you please confirm this account number exists and then do a bit more work? But this quickly goes into the hundreds or thousands and tens of thousands once you get into tiny small business and stuff like that. That's when things get a little crazy. So here's a project. Bank and a telco, this joke is a friend of mine starts off, I think I might give him the title. He ran with it, I love it. Says a bank and a telco walk into a bar. But they came up with a new process where the following is done. The telco bill is used for a bank account but when the person requests an account, the request is digitally sent over to the telco who then requests confirmation and they receive what's called a verifiable claim that says, yes, I, the telco, have known Darrell for 12 years. Bank says, great, cool. By the way, in that payload, I need his address for KYC, that know your customer. That's why they're getting your utility bill, by the way, to get your address. That's what the process is all about. The cost of this becomes less than a quarter. It has down one, two orders of magnitude. It's a hundred times cheaper. And I do believe the actual cost is gonna get down to the point where it's effectively free. But then, so they went through this process and said, this is really, really cool. But then it got weird. This kind of blew my mind. The telco says, hey, can you tell me if this person is a customer of a bank and how long they've been a customer? The bank and the telco had already defined the data format that says, who are you? Are you a customer? And how long? And they added an address in there. So the bank's like, well, yeah, we could use the same format, but why would you want that? The telco realized they have a way, way better customer. If someone walks in and says, yeah, hi, I'd like a new phone account. I moved across the country, but I deal with Bank of America and T-Mobile says, cool. How long you been, oh, T-Mobile, you've been with Bank of America for 12 years. They know they have a long-term customer here as long as they're living in their footprint of their cell phone. They probably have a customer for life because this person clearly doesn't jump around. And that is truly when things went crazy because what it did is it took KYC upside down because right now the banks pay the telcos to get better KYC information. To get that know-your-customer information, typically, primarily the address, but telcos don't pay banks until it gets cheap enough. That's when I recognize that the game in this space has changed fundamentally. And this only happened just a few months back and I can't tell you how excited these companies are and what they're looking at, what value they can go on and change. So here's why I want to go just real quick on the finance changes. So the digital identity, I'm explaining how right now the vast majority. There are groups that sell your identity and make a ton of money on it. Google, Facebook, about 500 data aggregators. Equifax is one. You don't have an account with Equifax. They've got a copy of you though and they just released it all to the wild because they didn't follow their own security procedures. But that expense and liability, the liability is actually turning into, sorry, it's the expense of turning into a revenue item. Either on the bottom line by reducing costs or on the top line because you're establishing a better relationship with your customer. You're picking better customers. You are doing far better business which just affects the top line immensely. Whoops, I jumped ahead. But also liability is shifting to be an asset. I want to give you an example here of what that means. When Caesars Entertainment went under, they went into receivership and their assets were sold. There were two primary assets. They had a customer database when do you go and buy food? What drinks do you like? What tables do you like to sit at? Which of the, whatever the machines are, you can tell them I'm not a gambler. But your overall profile, minute to minute, what it is and how much you make the corporation because everyone knows if you're at a casino they're making money. They also had a huge amount of real estate on the Strip in Vegas. When they sold the assets, that customer database was worth a billion dollars. It was worth more than the land that the casino was sitting on top of. That customer database is about relationships. It's not about identity. As long as the identity I come in with works, they don't care. It's the relationship information that was absolutely insane. Just want to cover you off another little oddity here is it's security. Security is a huge concern right now. Think about Aquifax and Yahoo and Lord knows I don't even want to check the mail. I don't want to check the news. It's pretty much daily. Somebody has released and buggered up and information on me or somebody is out there, passwords are hacked. But throwing the privacy laws, like GDPR in the European Union, GDPR if you have privacy violations they can take 4% of your gross global revenue. That can knock out most companies. That could be their margin. It's pretty insane. But what if your digital identity solution that you had for customers had both built-in compliance, security and privacy? So but here's something that if you're listening, if this is interesting to you as an organization, I want to, before we go into a couple of the techniques and stuff that you can use, I want to make sure that you're the right type of organization to do this because some organizations may not be ready to learn. So you have to ask yourself a few questions here is do you want your organization to learn about these new technologies? Whether that be a blockchain based solution or whether that be self-solving identity? But also what are you looking to achieve and what are your outcomes? You may just be looking to learn. You may be looking to understand where self-solving identity is going or where blockchain could maybe play in your business. That's an awesome outcome and awesome thing to achieve. You may be further down the path. You may have already assessed that and decided to dive in and let's go in and go further with it. We already have a problem we found that blockchain or self-solving identity or both can help solve. And also ask yourself this is this is part of the where does self-solving identity and blockchain potentially exist? And it's hard to find some of these opportunities. Once you find them, they kind of like stand out actually like lights on. Finding them might be a little bit hard. But think about where in your organization where are you incurring significant costs due to barriers that feel silly? Like why do you have to spend so much money to protect my digital identity from everything? Why do you have to do all these things? So the decision I want you to think about and this is what I would call a gut check time because if you're going to approach self-solving identity or blockchain project you need to understand whether your organization is really willing and able to do what I call blaze trails. Do you want to be the person cutting a trail through this jungle that later on might be a four lane, six lane paved highway? Because these groups are the ones that are learning by experimenting and adapting. They take risks. But I want to be blunt that not all organizations are ready. If your organization is not ready, don't kid yourself. There's nothing necessarily wrong with not being a trailblazer. If you aren't, there are strategies you can take. We're not going to cover those here on becoming a trailblazer. But if you are, if you have a trailblazing group then do that gut check and make sure that if you can take the risks proceed otherwise maybe you want to monitor and participate with someone which really cool about the self-solving identity space and blockchain is a lot of these projects are open. They may not be open publicly but they're open on an industry basis whether that be a consortium of banks or insurance companies or travel related. There's so many different groups right now doing this. It's pretty crazy but they're all doing it pretty much by definition with others. So some group may be the leader other groups are just participating. You could easily do that. So it's something to think about. So let's get down to what I would call the brass tacks. Let's get down to execution basically. How do you get started? My advice to you is start small but not so small that it doesn't have any. No, it just doesn't matter but start small. Try to find a problem that is either where identity hurts. And look at the time, the cost. Is it impossible to do something or where your customers and your partners are feeling pain with you? I would also suggest if you're looking and you're using a thing called federated identity and that's something if you're not technical ask your IT folks. Ask if you're doing that because a lot of for some reason the federated identity, the whole idea there is it's almost the same is it instead of me coming with my identity to your company, you would start with another company's identity. So let's say I would use a bank to log in to the government tax system or let's say I would use my Facebook ID to log into my Jeep Wrangler forum. That's federated identity, it's pretty simple stuff. But I want to tell you we're not to start as well because a lot of people dive in, oh, identity, great. We'll replace our identity and access management system. Don't do that. It's probably already meeting your needs and we'll continue to meet your needs because what it is about, identity and access management really is about access management. It's about the rules that say Darryl as an employee or Darryl as a customer is allowed to touch this, is allowed to do this. The identity piece is actually really, really small. The business rules behind what you can do in access management stuff, they're pretty cool. I would also caution you if you're looking at any large scale production systems it's not time right now. We're probably three, six, nine months away from it being time. But you've got a lot of learning to do before you're gonna go and dive in that deep, that hard and replace a large scale production system anyways. But Sovereign and the other self-sovereign identity solutions, so one of them, Uport, I don't know if you've heard about, I'm gonna go on a cryptocurrency. No, I'm not, I'm gonna talk about crypto kids. I don't know if you've seen these, just like Pokemons on blockchain. These are digital cats that are right now consuming over 20% of the transaction volume of the Ethereum network, which means 20%, the network is bogging down because people are buying virtual kittens, crypto kittens. It's pretty cool. So you wanna make sure you're not part of that. I mean, Sovereign is a totally different beast, it's made for identity, it's fast, it's lightweight. But to watch, there are gonna be some churn and some changes. But I also wanna advise you, if you're working with partners, watch out for the timid partners. Some people may say, I'm excited, yeah, let's go do this. They don't even know what they're doing. They'll come up to you later and they'll be absolutely mortified, but they won't tell you that. That's something to think about is, are they really gonna blaze trail with you, or can they stand behind you as you blaze trail or should they really wait for that four lane paved divided highway? Maybe they should. Let's dive onto one tactic here that's gonna help you immensely. This is the team. And this is where a lot of projects fail and I can walk in and tell you immediately that they're gonna fail because I can see it right out of the gate because you're dealing with complex technologies. So what's a natural choice? You've got code that is new and changing. The data moving is complex and involves crypto, creating new data schemas. What's a verifiable claim? What's a zero knowledge proof? All this crazy technology that goes really deep. So naturally you pick a tech person. Tech is the natural leader here. Here's my advice, don't do it. Just don't. The tech people are absolutely critical. Don't get me wrong, but business must lead because business has to lead with both the current and possible future ways of doing things. It's possible that you may have a business savvy tech person, but be really careful. Do not let them go too far without being tightly coupled with them. The reason I find that business leads, here's what happens, business leads freak out because it's complex. This is not trivial stuff. There's some really hard stuff to learn, partly because it's new. The patterns are being learned. The documentation might not be as deep and thick as an old school identity solution. So if everyone asks me a couple of questions, well, why can't the geeks run this one? Or how do I, as a business guy, tell the technical team what to do and they get into this tizzy and they wonder, how can I do this? I don't even understand the tech pieces. But the last two of these at least, and that's all three of them, it's easy, is how do you deal with it? And this is also, the geeks can't run this because they don't get your business. They talk in terms that are just whacked. But here's what I want you to do on the team side when you have a business, a business analyst, a senior executive, C-level executive, even leading, is the first question you're gonna get from your technical team, when you're approaching this project is what are your requirements? And I would just advise you, I mean, it's okay, don't shoot yourself in the head yet. They ask this of everybody. So we need to get a strategy in place for this and make sure that we do not ask for requirements. Some of you may have already seen some of this. I'm gonna rip through it fairly quickly. I do have videos of going through this in more detail. But here's what happens is the experts will tell you that getting better requirements gets you better results. And I have seen people of all stripes, ranging from literally with stripes, these people in police, SWAT teams, special forces, all the way up to corporate executives, manufacturing for floor foreman, developers. And I'll tell you this, nobody, including the developers, gives a good answer to the, what are your requirements? What features do you want? It's like asking a fish to describe water. They don't get it. They, oh, that thing I'm moving around, they don't even think about it, it's just there. It's a weird question. What are your requirements and what features do you want? That's just a strange question. So don't ask those. Instead, here's what you do. You tell stories. Instead of asking for those requirements or defining a feature, you tell a story. Because humans are natural storytellers and we're natural listeners. Psychologically, we cannot help but put ourselves into the story so we actually start to feel and understand the story from the storyteller's perspective. And guess what stories do? Stories drive requirements and feature descriptions, not requirements and features driving story. It doesn't work in an upside-down manner at all. It also helps your software team understand what it is that you are trying to change or accomplish and it forces them to think like you. So how do you tell a story? Real simple format. Again, I'm burning through this a little quick but we'll get through there. So you say, as a blank, I want to blank so I can blank. Give you an example here. As a customer, I want to click just one button so I can buy your stuff instantly and have it shipped to me making me love your service even more. A company called Amazon used this and they tried, apparently, feature descriptions. Didn't work, they ended up with two clicks but that's what the buy now with one click meant. It was, you know, buy now and then are you sure you want to buy now? No, I wanted to buy right now. The story is different than the feature description because now there's, well, okay, this feature described must I have a confirmation? So what does the story do? Get your team thinking about how different ways they can make the story work. They've not patent themselves in a corner. They've not made assumptions but also about questions that they have. They learn about your goals because you can't help but push your goals forward. Even the unwritten goals, it also forces them to become independent because they can run that story through their head but here's how you make sure that they've got it. You use a story to confirm what they've got. So once you've told the story to your team, let them digest it a little bit, clarify and then have them tell you your own story in their own words. Now, warn you, breathe deep. Like I need an E on that breath deep and be nice. Oh, well, I'll go pass this one if I can. I wanna warn you, they are going to butcher your story. Your team, your technical team is gonna make a mess of this and that's good because they're gonna immediately dive in. I just, it was funny, we did this and I fell in exactly the same trap last week with one of the largest systems creators in the world. Very senior people in government, we went through an exercise and we all slipped in that trap and we had to come back after the storytelling mode and it started to, you know, you got a lot more out of it. So it's not natural, but we tend to dive into the details that can tell a story. Bang, you're right back up to the human level. You'll, they'll also come back with I would say unbelievably wild things once in a while and that's totally normal. I wanna give you a story because here's what I know that all the people involved in your team, I'm assuming here, really know what you do well but you're speaking different languages but you're using the same words with totally different meanings and you may not realize it. I'm gonna give you one example. 1992, the riots in LA. The, LA, the governor called in the Marines, not just National Guard, but Marines. This is down in the States, this is huge. Piscicatatis, it involves, you know, constitutional crisis but they brought in the Marines and here you have two groups, LAPD. Let's assume in 1992 that they are professional. They'd be different than today but they're professional, Marines, professional. Short story, the police and Marines approached the house, shots were fired from the house. The police lead says, cover me. So the Marines did by laying down covering fire. I can't remember if it was hundreds or thousands of bullets went through the house. It was a family with a small child inside. Fortunately, nobody got hurt. Here's the funny thing, both of them know exactly what cover me means operationally. They have totally different meanings. So the police officer, it means I'm moving, keep an eye out for me, watch out, cover my back. To the Marines, it means suppress with covering fire, we're making movement. Totally thankfully no one died. All right, quick last point on the stories. Make sure you tell them, listen to their version. Revise as you need, run with it and just keep repeating. All right, let's jump on to the two business questions. If you got the videos ahead of time, you would have got this as well. The two business question to ask, this is about is it really self-solving? There's a bunch of companies as I mentioned earlier that are saying they're self-solving, they're just identity. It'd be like, yeah, self-solving but I can take it away from you because the first question you can ask, what happens to my identity if your company disappears? For example, you go bankrupt or you're purchased or you just cease operations. If they can't answer that, they're not self-solving. That means that they have a self-sovereign-like identity but you're tied to their company's success. That's not yours, that's their version of you again. This one gets into the bigger part, the next question, governance and legal. In order for any large-scale adoption, which I'm pretty sure you don't want to adopt a minor player in the self-solving space, it becomes more important to actually have proper system governance and what called the legal frameworks underneath. So I, for example, sit on the sovereign as a volunteer on the sovereign trust framework working group. And in that, we are laying down the foundations by which various different health groups, government groups, corporate, legal. All of these different groups are looking at that as an underpinning layer of business, legal and technical rules, policies that they can build communities around. And that system governance is how do you control who even writes the ledger, for example? Who are the trustees? Who's involved? If it's all one company, there's no governance. It's whatever they want, they will do. So just something to think about there. So those last two stories, two strategies, telling stories and verifying things with self-solving are two of what I would say are probably the most important things I do to teach my clients what to do with self-solving identity so that they can become independent. Telling stories works just as well on blockchain, works just as well on any project, not even cutting edge. If you're having problems with requirements in projects, I'm from Ottawa, Canada and there's a bunch of federal employees around here and this thing called Phoenix is the most unbelievable disaster. I saw it coming years ago because I met the person in charge. But this is a case where they stood on the requirements, never told me stories and never adjusted anything. So they lost it. Those things will help. But I already know right now that some of you have even deeper needs or you're curious what to do next and I wanna help you out a little bit more. Here's something that might sound like a strange thing. I'll explain why I'm doing it is would you like me to give you a blueprint for you to take control of how you are attacking either self-solving identity or blockchain project for free. What I've done is this, I've set aside some time to gather a bit of information about your company. After I do that, you and I can work together for about an hour, hour and a half to quickly assess where things stand and probably set some 90-day goals so that you're aimed at success in a project. We'll meet just like this except we'll do a video. We'll see each other, share screens using Zoom. And here's what I'll do for you. I'll do this in real time with you there so that we can create something transformational in your business that will massively, I'd say massively have seen it, improve your success rate as well as how smoothly things go from a business perspective. So in about an hour, this is one of my little doodles I share on Instagram. In about an hour, we'll build a plan, probably a 90-day plan. It really varies on what it is you're doing that will raise the bar for you, your team and your business. And when the meeting's over, I'm gonna send that to you, send you the PDF so you can use it and go for it. Use it as you want. Now, some people ask me at this point, well, why the hell would you do that, Darrell? Honestly, this is how I meet amazing clients because I don't do a lot of marketing. I bump into people and we end up coming with amazing projects and it's really, really cool. So what I've learned is instead of trying to convince you to work with me, I just bluntly, this isn't sales, you're gonna get something if you do this, it's not a sales. I wanna help you for free and the value of what we do together for free does the quote selling for me because I know this, done it many times, after you get your blueprint, one of three things is gonna happen. The first possibility is you think the blueprint is no good and I wasted your time. Thankfully, that has never happened. At minimum, we'll have a good time and learn a bit about each other in part ways. The second is, and this happens all the time, is that you might decide to take the blueprint and run with it. And that's the case, I am freaking happy as heck. I wish you the best of luck and I'll follow up with you and see how things went. This is an example of a plastic surgeon I was chatting with and he and his wife run a very successful plastic surgery clinic they were creating a software solution completely out of the realm and they went on and kicked some butt and I'm happy as hell for them. And I won't say their name because they're very well known in the States. But it was amazing and it was just, I love doing this. This is part of one of the drugs of life that I like. But here's the third and most common scenario. Probably about 50-50 is that you're so thrilled with the blueprint that you asked me to dive in with your team. That's project anywhere between 25K to over 100K depending on what kind of a project we're talking about. But I wanna explain what my role is because I am not here and if you think I can be inserted permanently in your team, we're just not gonna do well together. But I wanna show you how an in-depth engagement works because what we do as a team is we dive deep. I typically like a 90-day engagement. I've got some engagements that are more ongoing but the roles have shifted, the engagement to dive in. But let's talk about what we would do is we'd dive in for 90 days, we'd plan and we'd start executing on your project. So I would work with you to assess both your team, how you're doing processes, check out your project or projects, what you have for software and more in-person and in-depth. You and I face the team and here's where things get funny. Sometimes I will face you with the team because sometimes we need to break some patterns. Well, the thing is here is we go real, we go deep, we make a plan, we execute. And in the first month, typically here's what happens is I ride with you and I will take over and lead at times because it's easier for me to get the ball rolling. Getting something started and getting it moving is tough. Once it's rolling, it's not that hard. In the second month, I more ride beside you and I start stepping back and helping you and your team lead more. And here's where people exist. Wait a minute, what do you mean you step back? Because that's not a normal quote, consultant step. I'm not your average consultant. Those people who have worked with me in government say I'm a freak, an odd duck because I walk away from projects all the time when they're in good shape and or there are better people to do the job than me. And my job is to build capability and capacity on teams, not to be crutch. Because I've learned this because I only work with one business owner and that be business on an intensive basis whether that's a business, not for profit or government. It's face to face and at times it's back to back. It's kind of ugly at times, it's intense. It's one of those real team experiences. It's pretty awesome. But my goal is not to be there for too long. You see, the longer I am there, the more you rely on me as your partner, as your right hand and neither of us can afford that. Because I've learned the hard way that if I am your crutch, I can't be. If I am your crutch, the minute we remove the crutch, you fall down, you may be in no better shape than when I arrived or in worse shape and we don't want to be doing that. So part of that process though is I'll probably, it usually happens, but lately a couple projects it hasn't. There's actually a bit of a team tear down and then it gets rebuilt. Actually, I know there's one project I'm working on right now that we did utterly tear the team down. Just thinking of another government project that the team is just freaking, wow. They just needed some executive oversight and a bit of nudging and guidance. The whole goal is that you can be attacking your business and you'll be leading and likely what happens is one of your technical team steps up and becomes your right hand because that's how your business grows. So back to your 90 day plan. Just a quick summary. In your first month, I ride with you as I mentioned. I will lead at times in the second month and kind of ride beside you. And then we step back, we make sure your team is in great shape. This is just one idea by the way of how the projects execute. The whole point is that my job is to build your capability and capacity not to build a reliance on me. And then after 90 days, we decide what level of action and what you need. So I've got projects where I have been advising on a very light basis for over a year, years. I've got projects where, you know, after 90 days, bye-bye. I have a recent project where I did cross the 90 day threshold and I regretted it as did the clients. We got a lot done, but the refusal to build capacity inside the team ended up costing a bit of extra time. There wasn't any extra money on building up their project management and their overall leadership capabilities, but there was some urgency involved so we knew what we were doing. So listen, if you really, if you would like that free blueprint, let's get started. But before we do, I wanna let you know that I cannot help everyone. I don't fit with everyone, but I want you to know I can be a benefit to people who are either actively or looking at, actively chasing or considering. And this is a framework that ThoughtWorks uses where they look at technologies as a hold off. Don't look at the technology. Assess it, trial it, and then adopt it. This is somebody who's assessing or trialing. Assessing means you're looking at, I figured what does it mean to my business? Trial means I'm trying something for real here, whether it's a brand new approach, taking an existing business problem and redoing it, piloting a project here, and then the adoption is when you go live full-time. But also the team really needs to be willing and able to learn new business and social approaches because adopting these technologies is not just a technology piece. That's what I've learned is it just isn't. But here's what to do next. If you do want to schedule a planning session with me, Becky will drop a link into the chat momentarily. There's just, I think there's five, six questions. I wanna understand a little bit about your business so I don't jump onto a 90-minute call and spend half an hour or 60 minutes finding out about your business. Usually there's enough information available on the net. You can point me at, it'll get me and my team diving in deep enough so we can actually jump on and get you that strategy plan. Once we have that together, we'll do that basic research, figure out a couple ideas, and we'll set up a time to go over it together. If you have any questions, just fire away here now in the Q&A, and I think we're, wow, we're just over 60 minutes, we're 65 minutes, so I'm not bad. Wasn't sure how long this would be. I often do presentations and webinars that go on for hours and hours, some of them actually multiple days. So I got a more, I got to hear a chat. Ah, that's Becky sharing the link, cool. I'm hoping, Tim, that the intermittent ringing disappeared when I stopped playing with my little clippy thing here. It did, it was me, okay. I'm a fidgeter. I'm glad I don't have one of those little spinning things. All right, so one of the questions is, where in the world, anywhere. It doesn't matter. I typically work in North America, willing to go wherever it's safe. Actually, I guess, yeah, North America is the principal area, though we work in the UK multiple times, but that's, location is almost nowadays irrelevant other than the timing of getting there and stuff like that. So I'm just reading about the Bitcoin blockchain and whether it's an option. Projects based on the Bitcoin blockchain, there are both, obviously, apps running on the blockchain, the Bitcoin blockchain. They're problematic in some ways. Well, some of them might be a perfect use case, but I'm having trouble coming up with a good use case that I would recommend, but I have to understand more of the business problem. We can maybe go into that in private, but I know there was a couple of projects that, gosh, last fall, so a year ago, we were talking with a group that was doing a self-summed identity solution on the Bitcoin blockchain six months prior to that. So that's 18 months ago. They were complaining that doing transactions had become prohibitively expensive. They had reached something like, it was costing 25 cents to make any change to an identity piece on the blockchain. That's 18 months ago. That same change, there used to be a joke that there was a point, I think, gosh, be here this year, that people were talking about using Bitcoin to buy a Starbucks coffee. Well, beginning of this year, the transaction cost cost more than a Starbucks coffee. So that same identity right would cost more than a Starbucks coffee. That was in February or March. So now whoever's trying to write this information to the blockchain is going to be forced to one, spend a lot of money, and waste a lot of, I would say, effort. Because, and one of the number one things on identity, by the way, is if you want privacy, you wanna be able to write a different identifier for every relationship you have. You may have 25 different relationships, different identifiers with your own bank, depending on what's happening and how you're operating. If every time you write, it costs you $45, you are going to reuse that. It's what's called co-relation, which means that I can monitor, and I will figure out very quickly exactly who you are, and now you're a target. The whole goal is to have, if you individual what's called pair-wise identifiers, you cannot be co-related. There's no co-relation risk at all. It's effectively almost mathematically impossible to co-relate. That can't be done on an expensive per transaction basis. Ethereum is a similar one, but Ethereum at least has strategies to move stuff off of the Ethereum ledger onto a ledger that runs beside it, which can be very, very low cost and perform differently. There's a couple more private questions that I don't want to get into, but I will take your name down and dive in. What I don't want to do, and this is quite a disparate group, I don't want to be bringing in any trade secrets or anything, but I'm happy to just have a quick little chat on a Slack or something. For some reason, my system just stopped displaying here. Cool. Well, listen, if there aren't any more questions, I'll just wind this up. What I'll get to you folks is a couple of things. I mentioned a term or what it was. Oh yes, do I need a blockchain? And the video, I'll get a recording of this session out to you. It'll take a little bit, it needs to convert, it needs to upload to the cloud, and then I'll get that out, but I'll get that probably to you tomorrow. Oh, another question just pop, what's this one? Do I see certain sectors as ideal? Is the minimum size of business must be to consider as to consider self-solving identity? Do I, to me, self-solving identity, I've never been this before in my life. I'm a zealot in that I believe that it is actually ideal for just what I'm in. Is it ideal to solve really hard problems right now in better in some industries? Absolutely. One of the guys on the call here who's working in the Bitcoin blockchain, I think he actually wouldn't understand the transaction costs I just mentioned, but here's a simple case. Fraud with regards to education credentials. Did you take this course? Do you have this degree? That's a pretty easy one to solve and what's really cool about it is you have to pay for your transcript. If you wanna get a copy of your transcript, you need to get a whole university in your college and you will pay anywhere between $25 to maybe $100. I don't know what the number is. Something around that though. They're not making money on this. They're not set up to go and provide you with paperwork. It's just a thing they have to do. So imagine if they, with your student ID, simply issue what's a verifiable claim that does a couple of things for you. One, you have your full transcript with your degree. I have a Bachelor of Applied Science and here's my course by course marks. I've taken all of this and any ongoing education, all the stuff from that one university. I am interviewing for a job and I say here's my credentials. Yes, I have a Bachelor of Applied Science right on the wall there. Now you have a digital one that says, well, he didn't fake that, but I could also include, oh, and by the way, here are the key marks of those courses you wanted me to do. I would never do that because I was not a great student, but that's one area. Another area where it's I think ideal, but hard, really hard, but I think it's worth it is healthcare. Healthcare, it's hilarious to watch the light bulbs go off when you start dealing with the fact that major parts of the problem of the healthcare system is sharing information. When you're dealing with health problems, there is only one common factor, me, you. You are the only common thing moving between doctor to doctor, especially down the stage where the healthcare costs are just, I mean, they're bad enough in Canada and the UK. I'm familiar with the NHS is looking at this, down the stage there's a lot of people looking at this. You are the only common piece. So if you are able to authorize, for example, that they say, hey, this doctor needs access to this x-ray, cool. Yeah, I'll authorize that as opposed to them sending faxes, phoning, all this type of stuff. It's like, no, you're now a health boom. You're my healthcare person. Boom, I'll give you the rights. Here's a claim that says, yeah, go ahead, take it, run with it. So healthcare is one that also gets into what's called personal data, which really requires self-sarm identity. I think self-sarm identity as well on the government space is pretty amazing. We're working with one group right now, and it surprised me that this one popped out where we're talking about in very simple terms because the person is always the scary part. But another part of self-sarm identity is not just about me. It's about me, the people, the organizations, those will be in the companies and whatever groupings you want to call it, and the things that are out there. This was one government group working to provide, and I advise these guys, verifiable claims that a company has a corporate registry, a company has a workplace safety certificate from the government or from an insurance company, and they can handle moving of building permits type of stuff. So there's a bunch of different places that I would say, yeah, the hard part to this question is, figuring out where to start. That's the hard part. Where we're seeing a lot of activity is groups that already have known problems in the travel space. Banking with KYC is absolutely enormous. The problem with banking in KYC is identity is just one piece of the problem. How do I know your customers and just that this is Darrell or that this is Bob over, I'll say Bob because I don't want to be associated with this Bob character who deposits a lot of cash, changes bank accounts all the time, changes phone numbers all the time. Why is that? Is Bob just flaky? Is Bob a drug runner? Is Bob running money for terrorism or anti-money laundering needs to be considered? That part gets really, really hard, but the biggest banks and the insurance companies are diving in on this pretty heavily. Cool, that was a great question. All right, if anybody else, I will just put out a big thank you and let me know if you have any questions. I love doing this kind of stuff and have yourself an amazing day.