 Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not men today are really less masculine and we're starting right now with the yes side in particular, Andrew will get us rolling. Thanks for being with us. The floor is all yours, Andrew. Yeah, thanks a bunch for that one second here. I'm on kind of a different setup. Thanks for having me on tonight, James. When I heard this premise are men today really less masculine than masculine that who can't As Andrew sorts out his tech, do want to say folks welcome to modern day debate. If you have not been here before want to let you know we're a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. We hope you feel welcome. No matter what walk of life you are from. And I also want to take this opportunity to introduce Jess. So at the bottom right of your screen, Jess is our guest mod had reached out recently about helping out at modern day debate. We really do appreciate it. 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And let me know, Andrew, if you are ready. Yeah, I'm good. I'm sorry I had a computer crash for no particularly good reason. Anyway, when I heard the this premise are men today really less masculine than who came before us. I kind of laughed out loud. Because it's unimaginable anybody would argue this at all masculinity has been on the decline. Perhaps the greatest irony here is that all we have to do is look at our opponents arguing This in the affirmative position radical coder doesn't exactly scream masculinity think I do And his partners possibly one of the only three biological women even willing to do debates at all. I find this topic, particularly annoying as you might as well ask if the sky is blue, but let's get into it. Public schools being geared towards girls the plummet and sperm count the plummet testosterone. The fact men can't even tell women they can't be men. The fact that all male activities. That mostly male males being geared towards are totally vilified across the board. The fact that TV shows Men as bumbling idiots and women is being sensible and logical, which I find humorous. You can tell a bunch of unmarried cat ladies are doing the script writing in Hollywood. Because women are basically functionally stupid. They deserve their honored place in our society deserve to be treated with respect, but nobody's ever going to accuse the average woman of being far too logical or too emotionally in control of herself. Masculinity is as much a biological phenomenon as it is an environmental one. There can be some things I suppose that are considered girly in some cultures that are considered masculine and others, but by and large these activities are outliers men worldwide essentially all function. The same when it comes to masculine interest manly isn't really something that's up for much of a debate. You can say things like strength so soicism competition capability. We have exact definitions if you need them a French man or an Asian man probably aren't going to quibble much about what makes a man manly. I think radical copper over here will just quibble about definitions for an hour and a half and waste everybody's time instead of actually arguing the point, but maybe he'll surprise me. In my case, I'm ready to defend the definition of masculinity, but just so you know radical nobody's confused about what it is. How they want to make this case. I'm actually eager to hear as the alarm bells on this have been going off for quite some time. I suspect we'll hear a bunch of feminist bullshit about how it's actually masculine to act like a little bitch or that what masculinity is is changing or blah, blah, blah, but I doubt there'll be any serious arguments that traditional masculinity isn't vilified and that is declining as an acceptable form of societal behavior. You got it. We'll kick it over to Rachel as well. Who's also on the side. Glad to have you back. Rachel. The floor is all yours. Thank you, Jane for having me back. I love coming here. It's always a good time. So I'm going to kind of just build off of what Andrew said. He mentioned that masculinity. We kind of know what it is, but we do have some APA definitions for you if you'd like it's usually defined by something like assertiveness dominance competitiveness. Stoicism, things like that. And you guys may or may not know that I wrote a book about feminism and how it has radically inverted the social order in a very short amount of time. We're talking about one century compared to the many thousands of years of human history that came before it, where we went from having a pre industrial society where physical strength and power was very highly prized and very important and necessary to post industrially having feminism and women's liberation kind of invert everything and kind of make us what I would consider more of a matriarchal society at this point. And the evidence I have for that would be things like what Andrew alluded to with schools boys do much worse in school than girls do now. They get worse prison sentences they get worse punishments for just about anything when you're looking at the exact same crimes committed women get far more lenient punishments in courts and in school. And I think that's because we once we put women in charge of everything over the last 50 years we've got elementary schools are 80% female teachers high schools are over 60% female teachers. Good 40% of kids are being raised by single moms now. So most kids go straight from single mom to daycare lady to lady elementary school teacher so on and so forth and in all those formative years boys are punished for almost anything considered traditionally masculine. And they are rewarded for more traditionally feminine behavior, which is why it's like there's a bias against them now in the system to some degree, you can look at things like family courts as well for that. Men are much more likely to be victims of violent crime, they do commit more of the violent crime but they're also disproportionately much more often the victim of violent crime than women. So I mean we look at things like just decreasing testosterone lowering sperm counts physical strength things that they've measured like grip strength, sprinting speed, rowing speed all the world records are far lower than they used to be so like classical women grow much faster than modern humans can the grip strength just from like the World War two generation to now is like half of what it was or something. So just physical strength in general has declined as well among men. Women are now dominant in a lot of career fields they're dominant in college education. It's just a very much more gynocentric culture that we live in than what it used to be. So I think you can look at all the biological aspects and see that masculinity has declined and you can also look at the social impacts and see that masculinity has declined. So I don't know if they're going to argue that that's not the case and maybe they've got some evidence for that or if this is going to turn into more of a debate about why masculinity is on the decline and whether that's good, but I guess we'll just take it from there and see how it goes. You got it. Thank you very much for that opening Rachel and want to let you know folks we have many juicy debates coming up. In fact this month it's going to be huge. Alec Stein and Hunter Avalon collide over the famous or infamous depending on how you see it. AOC event that happened several months ago. You don't want to miss it. Hit that subscribe button so you don't miss it. It's going to be a big one with that. Thanks so much Radical Coder and Laugh for being with us. They're taking the no position of course folks. Namely saying that men are not any less masculine and Radical Coder is going to get us started. Thanks very much, Ryan. The floor is all yours. All right. So I'm not necessarily saying that men are less masculine. I think we will clibble over some definitions for sure. My take is really that if men are less masculine in particular dimensions of masculinity, I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. People will get triggered by phrases like toxic masculinity. It's probably a little bit of irony that we can explore. But obviously there are masculine traits and expectations that do produce toxic environments for men and the people around them and it's good to reduce those. Patriarchy puts all of us in different ways and based on our relationship to it. And if you're a woman, that relationship is different than if you're a man. If you're non-binary, that relationship is also different. In terms of positive masculine traits, none of those are seem to be exclusive to men, nor do typically feminine coded traits are exclusive to women. We're probably better off in general having more well-rounded human beings that embody positive traits, whether they've been coded feminine or masculine historically. I don't really care. I want good people all around. On top of that masculinity has had a long time to be carved out in this very specific way while explicitly excluding women from positions that were perceived as masculine. I remember hearing, actually I've heard this several times in the past week in different conversations where people will say things like, you agree that men are naturally better leaders, right? Which is just a bizarre thing to say considering for most of the history, women weren't allowed to be leaders in most societies. So I don't know how you could just assert that had they been allowed, they would be worse ones. I mean, obviously not being allowed in those positions is going to have some impact over a period of time. Similar to how Andrews talks about women not being in debates years and stuff. Well, talking women get treated like shit in debates years. Anyone who watches any of these debate panels and debate conversations should understand this. I see it, certainly. It's probably not very fun to be a woman in a lot of these spaces. And it's probably pretty alienating. And I don't think that's even necessarily unintentional in a lot of ways. So on top of that, I'm sorry. Oh, actually. Yeah. Oh, and so femininity was kind of shaped by the roles that women were expected to feel contrasted to the ones that men had dominated and again legally excluded women from. And this doesn't just hurt women that didn't just prevent women from developing those dimensions, but also prevented men from from feminine from embracing them traditionally traditionally feminine roles and traits. And I think that's also bad. So I think I think that my opponents are frankly in the unfortunate position where at the end of the day, even if this isn't really the topic of the explicitly the topic of this conversation. But their goal is, is that quote unquote biological men and quote unquote biological women, they should fill these traditional masculine and traditional feminine roles. And this is the way that we should push to organize our society, in spite of people who very obviously don't want to conform to these roles and rather thrive in environments where they're not forced into these boxes that they simply don't fit into. And yeah, so that's. Thank you very much. We could get over to laugh. So I'm a slacker I didn't prepare anything. But I do. I agree with most of what obviously Ryan said. Yeah, I didn't know that the debate was if masculinity is on the decline because I think that all of us can acknowledge to some degree that at least like paleo masculinity right like cave masculinity certainly is. I don't think that that's a bad thing I actually think that's a really good thing, especially entering the new like technological age. It's just a progressivism, I guess, because you know the traditionally feminine roles are what's going to humanize us on this very, you know, strange trip down the rabbit hole when it comes to obviously the world So yeah, I'm sure that will argue about like definitions of masculinity and femininity and and that sort of thing and I'm just I'm ready to get into it but yeah I agree with everything that Ryan said. Excellent. We'll jump right into the open conversation as mentioned folks, you can ask a question by either a tagging me with at modern day debate in the live chat, as well as super chatting a question in which case we read the super chat questions first and then get to the standard questions. Thank you very much folks. The floor is all yours. Glad to have all of you here. Yeah, so this is the second time me and my wife have been on modern day debate and won the debate right at the outset of the debate. Both of our opponents both agree with us they concede that traditional masculinity is on the decline. As per the debate topic, we win. They conceded. So should we go. I mean, you know, I say, I think, I mean, fair enough, if we want to leave it at that but I think, I think that there's just so many more interesting conversations to be had here. Like what like when we talk about these these different aspects of masculinity that rage laid out like strength, assertiveness, dominance and competition. Again, I don't think all any of these are explicit to men. And also, none of these are necessarily inherently good all the time and a lot of them manifest in like really bad ways. Like you can be hyper assertive in a way that I see so. So let's so instead of debating whether or not masculinity is on the decline now we'll pivot and we'll just debate whether or not it being on the decline is good. Are you scared. Are you scared to have that conversation as long as as long as you guys can see the debate. From your perspective, masculinity is on the decline. Absolutely. Okay, so if we can masculinity as you know it masculinity as you know it right so since both of you have already conceded the entire debate and we already won whatever you guys would like to launch into I'm happy to do. So like what I guess like how should we how should we push to to remasculate. Wait, what, let's wait, what okay how would you how would you Andrew and Rachel how would you describe masculinity. Well we already did. Well, okay, but you didn't give like a list like can we get like a literally gave a list, but I'll give it to you. Yeah, that's like that's like three or four things. That's what the APA considers it to be but if you guys want to I mean, I still feel like this is a bit of an unfair fight for you guys because this is literally like what I do with my life all the time. So if you want to launch into the changes we've seen in society and prove to me that they're good. Go for it because nobody has done that yet. Another thing I'd like to bring up real quick. I was taking notes before epic victory and one of the things that copper said was what women weren't allowed to be leaders. I want to tell you copper, if you have to be allowed to be a leader you're not a leader. You see how that where people have people have to allow you to be a leader you're not a leader that's how that word that's the problem so you believe it like inherently should just like lead because what they're, they're bigger. Well, do you have to be allowed to leave. Okay, but you think do you do you have to be allowed by a man to lead. Right now, right now. Yeah, why, why, so hang on Andrew, because because because our, our, our, everything is, black people can't be leaders. Of course they can. Well, how come they had to be allowed to be to be in leadership positions they weren't allowed to be in those positions before so. I mean, so we're black, we're black men always allowed to be leaders in like Africa in their own communities. Yeah, I'm sure that they were too. Well sure but females have definitely been leaders, females have been leaders throughout history though like the Cleopatra like there's plenty of females who that are gynocentric governments or communities where they've been allowed in western civilization, not necessarily. Well, so why, why is it that men need to allow women to be leaders. Because we've been under male regime because you can't because you can't do anything about it. Well if you like legally codify something. Andrew, I want you to know that if you were, if you were born into a situation where you were legally not allowed to do the things that you like you've done to like thrive in your life. You probably wouldn't have done those things like you might think otherwise you might think that no, it was it was so deeply inherent to me that I would have done these things no matter what obstacles were in my way. Hey, you're welcome to imagine that world but I don't know I think it's just kind of silly. Yeah, calm down before we go into that just because it's a little bit closer to the topic I did like that you guys talked about. Is it a bad thing that men are less assertive, less competitive, less dominant. That's something I do. I feel like we should really explore that before we go into whether or not you could say the systematic oppression of women occurred in the past. I want to, I mean, I really would like to get an answer to this. Women this is so over. Are you talking about women? What are you talking about? Andrew, I'll make it very simple. The inherent difference between the sexes is that one can kill the other with their bare hands, right. So it would make sense that like that you have to beg to lead. Not beg to lead. You have to beg. No, but but that after like a regime of a male dominated society that women now would start to want to equalize. What you're saying is the men, you have to you have to ask the men to make the men step aside so that you can be in charge. Do you understand what we don't necessarily have to ask them. I don't think that. What would we do if we don't if we don't ask them and they don't agree with us and give us the permission to lead everything. Like what are we going to do about it? Well, in democracy, that's sort of like how you get anything to change. So like that's it. Like everyone sort of like asks permission in a way. I guess like you get things to move. Everything is. Everything is. This is like, I'm very like I'm. This is absurd. Listen, I'm going to. I'll explain it to you. Everything that is political is backed by force. Everything that is law is backed by force. Every year. Are you giving? Are you saying that? Are you advocating for women to take to the streets? Stopping, stopping shrill immediately. Just give me 10 seconds to make the point and then I'll let you reach Rachel. You brave woman. Okay. So where I was at before I was so rudely interrupted was I was expressing. That everything that's political is backed by force and everything that is lawful is backed by force, meaning by men. So what she's asking you specifically is if men don't want to give you any authority, what the hell can you do about it? And the answer is. Burn down some buildings, kill some men, I guess. Yeah, nothing. You can't do anything about it, right? It seems like something was done about it because for a long time women weren't allowed to like vote women weren't allowed to. Hold on. I'm sure you are. Maybe I can give you guys a little, a little bitty short history lesson on how that happened. No, no, no, hold on a second. Just before we go completely off topic is that I do want to hear is it bad that masculinity is declining because this is totally off topic. So is it good or is it bad? I think it's good that masculinity is being redefined and reimagined. And I think it's really generally good to prove it. Hold on. Okay. Just not everybody at the exact same time as we can actually hear you. Okay. Just that side. I was just going to say that I think it's generally good to look at society and say what are the rigid structures and what are good things about them and what are bad things about them. And how can we improve them? And I think it for a long time, one of those structures was that women were property and women were, were not allowed to participate in society in a lot of different ways. And if you ask those women, some of them might be fine, might have been fine with it, but a lot of them were like, no, this kind of sucks ass. Actually, that's not correct. Okay. Maybe not. You all have talked, you all have talked the whole bunch. I haven't talked. That's not true. That's not true. In my book, I talk about the fact that at the time that they were trying to pass suffrage for women, it took so long. It like this push for it started in like the 1830s, 1840s. It took almost a hundred years because women didn't want it. Only about 4% of women. In 1919 wanted anything to do with voting or civil service. Number one, they said we're too busy. In fact, there's pamphlets. You can go Google where you can find where the anti suffrage was. In fact, they said, we're too busy. We have homes, churches, communities to take care of. We have elderly to take care of, children to take care of. We like planning parties and having a good time and being with our families. We don't want to go to murder trials and hear the grizzly details and have to do civil service. We don't want to have to keep up with politics. Politics was then and is now considered something that's kind of gross and yucky and stupid. And kind of crude, right? Politics is dirty business. Women didn't want anything to do with that. So no, the whole point is that feminism was never this grassroots ground swell of women who just looked around one day and went, hey, we're being oppressed. This sucks. I want to, I want to do military service. I want a corner office in a suit with shoulder pads. And I don't want to spend all day with my children at home. I want to join a corporation and pay taxes. And I want to, you know, enlist in the military. And no, women didn't want that then. And they largely do not know, which is why you have such a hard time with your egalitarian dream. I don't think anyone wants to do that. Women don't want to enter STEM. Women don't want to run Fortune 500 companies. They don't need it to most men. Yeah, no, you're wrong. You're right. So like same thing with military, lots of men are ultra violent. That's a masculine feature. And they, they literally joined the military. And one of the reasons that they'll give as a cause for joining the military is that they wanted to kill people. Not kidding. It's not a joke. And that is a, that is a great thing. Yeah. That's super. That's good for society. I mean, it's a great thing if you want to have your borders defended from foreign nationals who will come in and literally kill you. It's cool to have those people, isn't it? If we do have people like expressing those traits, because you probably try to put them. Here's something with them. But. Please. The Congress wants something like Rachel. Rachel said not, it's one main thing. Like the problem is if you talk about how all these women didn't want it. Well, a lot of other women did want it. And like those, and those ones. Well, those tiny women open the door for a lot of other women to realize, Hey, that actually seems like a good idea. And then when they, and then once the cat's out of the bag, and you know, good luck putting it back in. I mean, actually, I really don't want you. The reason I'm here is I don't want you to be able to do that. Right. But anyway, that's, okay. So maybe we should do what James suggested and jump over to discussing whether or not this is a good thing. Let's take a look at the last 100 years and see how it's worked out. I just posted a piece to my sub-stack yesterday called, how's that feminism working out for you? Turns out it fucking sucks. And we have a whole bunch of data that proves it. If you look at things like marriage and divorce rates, children who are being raised in single parent homes below the poverty level, what happens when you move step parents into the house and how the instance of child abuse goes through the roof at that point. The amount of women who can't cope with trying to have a full time career, because they've had it pounded into their heads since they were infants, like I did that you're a fucking loser. You're a fucking loser. You're a fucking loser. If you don't have a corporate job, and if you're not making your own money and you can't depend on a man for anything, but they also want to have kids. It's a biological drive. We have to have children. So now we have to do everything, right? So then it's like, well, now we're unhappy with the man because the man isn't naturally jumping in and doing all the housework stuff that he's not doing the dishes. He doesn't mop the floor correctly. So everyone gets divorced. And then there's the child. And then there's the child. And then there's the child. And then there's the educated women that goes up to 90%. Women hold the vast majority of college debt. So now most women go into their child bearing years with tens of thousands of dollars of debt and they think, how the hell am I ever going to pay that? I guess I can't afford to have kids. So now the birth rates are dropping. Then you could look at a million other things like rates of alcohol and drug abuse, childhood poverty, and then you can't afford to have children. So now if someone is doing better, we have trans kids for God's sakes. So the past 100 years, the slippery slope, we have just write down the slippery slope straight into hell. So please tell me, make the argument for how this is so good for everybody to switch the gender roles, to invert the social order, to tell men, they can be women, women, they can be men. Everyone's the same. And it's all just a social construct. Please, please defend. Well, I will say no one's saying everyone's the same. If you talk to like, I mean, this is definitely a side note, but if we talk about like the trans stuff, like, I mean, no one's saying that like cis men are trans men or that cis women are trans women. We're in fact, we're saying that those are like two categories that exist and it's okay that those two categories exist. That I know you guys don't think it's okay. Those two categories exist, but that's, you have a point. Get your point, dude. Oh, I'll leave it at the trans thing for now, but um, you literally didn't address a single thing. So I think, I think that like a lot of the issues that Rachel listed off are going to be issues with like, I mean, frankly, with capitalism, like people having to work for money, people having to work, like work to survive at all, like in the way that we do, like in those structures that exist, like people born in the situations and the way that they have to deal with that. You talked about like women being the primary seekers of divorce, like what's your alternative? They shouldn't be allowed to get divorced. Like, like, I don't know how that's like a good, how like forcing women to stay in marriages is like, don't literally just don't want to be like the 50s, like the 50s where women were just getting like beat by their husbands and like do anything. No, stay there because society's going to fall apart. That's an absolute probe and a stereotype. You've been watching too much TV. That's not true. My grandparents grew up in the 50s. They watched their fucking moms get beat. They got beat. They're like, Hold on. Everybody one at a time. None of the men cared about their wives, their mothers, their daughters. They were all just running around beating the shit out of all the women. You really think that. No, I didn't say that. And you don't think that there was exception for divorce because of things like abuse, abandonment, insanity and addiction. Yeah, but do you also, do you know is it hard to get a divorce prior to no fault divorce for those reasons? Sure. What we have now is divorce because Sally doesn't feel sexy and the neighbor makes her feel sexy. So she's going to dump the kids. Dad. Sorry kids. Daddy has to leave because Mr. Johnson next door makes mommy feel sexy. That's what we have now. That's why women get divorced. Not because they're getting. Divorced to fuck their neighbors not to. Yes, they will find themselves. They're not getting divorced because their husbands are sitting or beating the shit out of them. It's ridiculous. That's a tiny minority. The most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I don't. I don't. Did I make that claim that most women get divorced because this is the same stupid snarky feminist bullshit. You always hear where they go back in the fifties where the men with top hats would go home to their perfect hourglass wives and just beat the holy shit out of them because the worst thing was. Anyway, I think we're getting. We're moving a bit. It's like, let's get back on the. Lab is right. It's something I was just going to say is, theoretically, I don't want to. Take size. I'm not taking size. I'm just saying theoretically, if I was on your side, radical coder or lab, you know, a possible response might be, is it the case that the increases in divorce or the other things that happened as Rachel mentioned are actually the result of the declining masculinity rather than some other cause. So I was just about to, I was just about to say, like, obviously I think that we all believe in social conditioning. Right. Obviously if you're, if you grow up and you don't think that you, that voting is even an option or you don't worry about it, you're taught to, you know, can goods and, you know, that you will be a mother. It's just like, that's like the idea that you're going to have in your life. So I think that with you, or you are upset with your family for trying to socially condition you into this like feminist society, right? So I think that there are certainly reasons, if you can convince all of Jonestown to kill themselves, you know, with poison, I think you can, I think you can convince a generation or generations of women over social conditioning that they shouldn't want to vote. Right. So I think that machine guns. Sure. But I think that, I think that that point is a little mute because I think that to be fair like, I, I, Rachel, I'm, I'm a Tradcon wife at heart. I don't want to fucking work. I don't want to debate. I don't want to do all these things. But I acknowledge that women, some women do want to do those things. And I think that they should be free to do those things. Yeah. They're literally mean, they are nowhere close to you, Andrew. They are avoiding you. Well, they're, they don't want to talk to you. Honey, I think that they're all looking at their cats and they, they're very upset. I have three cats and I'm sure you do. And I'm, I'm also engaged. So what's your point? I'm sure you're right. Your point about social conditioning is correct. And what has happened is we went from one extreme, extreme allegedly, I have a ton of information in my book where I make the argument that life was not that way. All of female history has been rewritten by gender studies professors who portray it that way, that life was this brutish, brutish horrible existence for women. We were all chained to a stove made to give birth and bake cookies until we died of her death or something. And that's really not true. Women had a lot more agency and arguably more control and power and influence in society than they do now, because they ran everything like the churches, the schools, the communities they took care of the elderly. They had like a really strong influence socially. They just weren't in the political sphere and they weren't as much of a financial sphere, although a lot of places, a lot of instances, women could own property and have money and inherit things and all that stuff too. So a lot of that's been falsely portrayed. Now we tell women, if you aren't a boss bitch, you ain't shit. And I think that's everything. Exactly. So this is, this brings me to my point, which is that masculine, masculinizing women is bad and keeping masculinity for men also bad. This is my point, my point as a cultural feminist, I don't, I don't call myself a radical feminist anymore. I've decided to become a cultural feminist. I think that feminist values are better for society as a whole, which is why I'm pro-soyification for men, right? When we enter this technological age where, you know, things like drones are going to do most of like the military work or things like that. You don't need the brute force, masculine energy that we once needed. I think it was great for what it was. I think in the fifties, it was great. I think before we had computers, before we had robots that could do all these things for us. It was incredible. But now we're moving towards who, who builds all them drones and robots and weapons. Who does all that? So now that we're, so now that we're trying to take us on a detour again, Andrew, and I'm not going to let you, I'm not going to allow it. Just say, just say who does it? Now that we're moving, now that we're moving. Oh, you asked the question, Andrew, let's hear it from laugh. Is she going to answer it? I'm going to finish what I was saying. Not going to answer it. Now that we're moving towards this technological age, regardless of who made the robots, it's great. They're like mostly men rate made these robots, right? No, it's all men. Yeah, that's great. No, it's all, it's pretty much all men. Incredible. Yeah. And also it was, it was only a socially acceptable for men to be scientists for the last hundred years. Right. Well, women were not true. Well, did you come up with that idea that women weren't allowed to be scientists? It's not that they weren't allowed to. It's just social conditioning. So when your parents. Yeah. Rachel, your wife just literally said that social conditioning is like true. That's true. But unfortunately we have a ton of data from like Nordic countries where they've been pushing STEM for like 70 years. And we've actually found that less women, less women wanted to go into. No, I'm not okay. Great. I'm not the debate is not whether or not men have more logical tinkering brains. I think that that is a great aspect of masculinity that is like really dope. You say we don't. Well, I'm talking about like the brute energy women also women also can you ever going to finish. I mean, I guess not because. Like how long, how long do you have another? This is, I've actually, this is, this is what happens when men see that you have a point. They're like, Oh, I'll let you know. It's like you're being like, you can, I mean, we don't have to have this discussion. I wanted to have this discussion because I think that there's a bridge that can give me the thumbs up when you're done. So I can respond to it. Cause you made a bunch of critical points. Well, so the first, the first hypocrisy is you said, Well, we don't need all this toxic masculinity. It's super, super evil toxic masculinity. Whatever that we don't need. We need soy, soy boys, brutish, whatever, because we have drones and we have robots and we have all these neat, All that were made by men, who probably were masculine men, you want to take away the same driving motivation that created the same things you want to replace them with. Okay, wait. Do you think any of these scientists who are making these, I think most of the, I don't know if you ever met a scientist, but most of them aren't like masculine. I don't think you know anything about robotics at all, but that's a build. Yeah, I'm a roboticist. Awesome. Yeah, I'm a roboticist. And let me tell you that's hard to ask. Physical labor. Okay. Machine maintenance. Machine maintenance has motor. I've worked on robots. Your job is going to be taken by that have 700. No, never. It's not like you don't know anything about robots. You have no idea. The person that builds and repairs the robots and some of them are the size of a house. Yeah. Huge massive. You think that this is something that's not physically intense labor. You're insane. You have no idea what you're talking about. Do you know what drone repair is like? Why are we going off on this? Because, because you literally just got done telling me that masculinities should be replaced by robotics and by machines and by all the things that masculine build. No, no, no, no. I just, I know, I just think that no, I'm saying that a rephrasing or a redefinition of masculinity is important when we don't need like a brutish man anymore. A strong man. Great. A strong man. Well, what's a brutish man? You said like someone who wants to kill. You mean like members of our armed forces and special forces and people that we utilize in order to keep you safe at night. Sure. We don't need them anymore. We don't need them anymore. No, it's not that it's not that we don't, it's not that we don't need that anymore. It's just that it's not becoming a human thing anymore. So we need brutish man. Who runs into burning buildings to save people? Who runs into floodwaters and hurricanes and save people? Women, clearly women. Big strong, physically strong men. No, women can't do that. They physically can't do that. They physically can't do that. No, they're not. What about nurses? What about nurses that save lives every single day? They're not running into a burning building. That's beside the point though. You said what? You don't think there's a need for physically strong, brave people who are willing to risk everything and save people? I didn't say that. Well, then what is brutish? What is brutish? Just saying that a man has a drive to kill. That's obviously very useful in society. What the hell is wrong with that? How is that useful in society? I just gave you, how many times do I have to give you the example of the United States military? I guess another time, Andrew. And you say over and over again, yes, we do need them for that. Yes, that's true. We need them for that. We needed them for that. Like I just said, there are like drones and cyborgs and androids being created so that we don't need men to do shit like that. Okay. This is the city people thing. This is people that have lived in urban areas their whole life. They have no idea what real life is like outside of a city. They go, Yeah. Did you live out in the country where people produce food? Yes. How do you not know that we do not have machines that do everything? We still need big ass strong men to do a lot of things in this world. We needed men for that same, we needed men to butcher cows. And now we have machines that butcher cows. Yeah. So all of this shit that you're saying. No, men have to run those. Are the women going to stun the cattle so they can be slaughtered? No. Are the women going to be trash men? Are they going to be viewers? They're not going to women. Don't want to be trash. We should open it up so they're allowed to. I don't think most men want to do that. Hang on. Rachel. Did you know that cows just walk into machines and butcher themselves? I didn't know that. This is. Hold on. I do. One thing I want to talk about. Women work on oil rigs. This is rookie shit, you guys. Can women work on oil rigs? One thing I want to jump in. One second. Hold on. One second. They probably do. Yeah. They probably do. Yeah. They cut the paychecks for the men. You guys just won't stop talking sometimes. So one thing I do want to talk about. Forgive me. I don't mean that I want you guys to talk, but sometimes while I'm trying to interject just to say a couple of things. One, folks, we're going to go into the Q&A shortly. So if you have any questions, please do fire the men as well as one day that could be said is we've talked about physical strength, but at the same time, like whether or not that equates to masculinity, you know, I don't know if everybody would agree with that because they think originally masculinity was defined by things more like assertiveness or dominance or stoicism, all of which are, I mean, I don't know if they're even correlated at all with physical strength. So maybe someone, maybe that's something to consider. I think there's a lot of women who like embody those traits and like want to live their lives in various sort of dominant ways. And those women thrive when they have the opportunity to do so. And in the same way, there's a lot of men who would thrive in more feminine or traditionally feminine roles. And we should open the door so that these people can thrive in the positions that are best for them. So they can do the things that we need people to do with those skills. True. And if your point stands that it's some, like, evolutionary, evolutionary biological basis on men and women wanting to fall into their, you know, assigned roles, then making it okay. Would not change that because they would just naturally defer to their roles. What about the societal damage in the interim time where we try to reach your insane egalitarian utopia where you fucking destroy everything in your path. In order to make sure that radical copper over there can act like a lady boy online. What does what does egalitarian mean to you because I think egalitarian means to me that we have the same options, but we might have different like strengths. Why are there quotas? Why do we demand that 50% of CEOs be women? Why do we say 50% of senators be women? What does egalitarian mean to you? What does egalitarian mean to you? Why do we demand that 50% of CEOs be women? Why do we say 50% of senators have to be women when women don't want to do those things? Do we say that? Wait, is that, is that happening? California has quotas. And there are more women now who want to be in these roles. Sure. That makes sense to, in places like California, it makes sense in places like California where there are as many women going for those roles, but in a place like Utah. It makes sense because I think less women want those things. So it wouldn't make sense because the Mormons there would tell the women to shut the fuck up and they're not going to do it. Because they're awesome. Because they're awesome. That's true. There's a couple of things. If I was, if I was, if I was living in the 50s and I was married to Andrew, Jesus Christ. Rachel, you, I really, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't listen. If you need help. Don't, don't do that. Because don't do that. And here's why they're, you would not. Why do you think, you know, you've come on here. And I had a ton of respect for you for talking about the horrors of sex work. And the exploitation of women. And the reason that all these young girls, beautifully young girls, like you end up on only fans being sex workers, selling their bodies for money is because they're poor and they're not. Yeah. You know, they're not in the quality. It's empowering. It's wonderful. I know, I know, I know there are some. Feminists who aren't in agreement with that, but they're in the minority. And now we have huge sex industry. Huge because it's empowerment. Right. So no Andrew is not abusive. The 50s were not horrible. I don't think it was abusive. I think he's smug. in a position of being a sex worker. If you had traditional masculine men, your dad would be there and your dad would say, over my dead body, you're not gonna be a sex worker and I will snatch you up and make sure that doesn't happen. Men are protectors. But if only he had been maybe men were also protectors. But maybe if your dad had been a little bit more brutal, he would have made sure you didn't go into that. It's not, but see, that's the wrong way to think of it because it's like. I think I watched. Saying no is violence. Women think that men telling them no is violent and that it's abusive. I write about this all the time. To women, a guy saying, no, you're being hysterical, that's abuse, right? Sometimes women are hysterical. We're filled with estrogen, we have periods. I'm a woman, I have these things where once a month I go a little bit insane for a couple of days and I cry over nothing. I cry at a coffee commercial. Andrew comes in and goes, babe, just go take a nap. Just take a nap, you'll be fine. And I'm like, you know what I go take a nap and I'm fine. These, it's. And what is that? Wait, wait, wait, but what is that? Because that's empathy, which is traditionally a feminine term. No, really it's not empathy. It's his logical brain going, she doesn't normally act like this. I think I know what's going on. And she's gonna insist that she's. No, that's nurturing and empathy and kindness, which are almost feminine and great. And this could involve a lot of logical processes to like make the. Well, no, I don't know, is it? Or can I use my? Also on average, on average, why is it that? Women's IQs are higher than men's. Well, I don't know. They sure seem not to use them. Women's IQs are not at the top of the curve though. At the top of the IQ curve, it's mostly men, sure. So the very best, the very best for men. No, for women have, women have higher verbal IQs on average. Men have a higher IQ and EQs on average. We are totally different. And what men provide is necessary for stable use of what I'm confused. Because have you seen brain scans? Because they're actually far more likely they are different. Not the brain scans again. Listen, you do understand. Men and female brains are like far more alike than they are different. You do understand that IQ is also shaped heavily by environmental standards in everything. Exactly. So when you bring up that men's IQs are higher, it would make sense that those are also. Calm down. If it's environmental standards, we brought up that the public schools are tailored specifically towards women and female behavior. Men are not. And it's been that way for so long. Yeah, men are not. Well, listen, let me ask you a question. Were these curves in the IQ stable 100 years ago? Were women on average were higher? I don't think that we can look at IQ measurements from 100 years ago. It wasn't measured the same way at all. Like it was measured by like skull shapes in a lot of cases. Like this, like IQ is coming up. What I'm asking is just like when you're tailoring out these things, when you say on average, and then you've got to remember that IQ is heavily environmental based and that the environment that women are in right now is very much tailored towards their comfort, towards them learning, towards them. Inside of school systems, it was not uncommon for men to get into fistfights all the time. Just even when I was younger, if you got into a fistfight, it was a suspension. Now it's an arrestable offense. It has become more and more. Is that so? Yeah, it is so. And it's become more and more and more ask kissy towards women. They want the little boys to act like little girls. Fold your hands. Be quiet. Don't fight each other? Don't fight each other. Men fight each other. Yeah, don't fight each other. Men are the fight. No, they're proving their ignorance because even psychologists say that for boys, rough play, and even for little girls, rough play is an essential part of learning. And children who don't experience it suffer developmentally. The world isn't supposed to be a padded room where everything is really, highly comfortable. But like, no, not advocating for that. But if we're going to allow like this rough play and stuff, then what we should do is make sure that it's done safely. Like, if we're getting your kid off. Yeah, let's get them the pads and the yellow. Let's get them the ghetto fans. Because what happens is. Are you advocating for children to beat each other up? Yes, yes, what a little bad for a fight. Let the little bastards fight. Listen, it was very common when I was in school and it wasn't, by the way, I'm a millennial. It's not like this was fucking eons ago that I was in high school. It was OK. It was expected even that there would be fistfights. Nobody thought that much of it. It's still if you got caught smacking the. Yeah, I don't think that. I think that you will get arrested. It is assault. They will press charges. It has become a much bigger deal than what it used to be. Get arrested. Yeah. And yeah, school to prison pipeline. And yes, really disproportionate effects on the little kids often like to fight with each other. They like to kick the holy shit out of each other. And yeah, that's pretty much OK, especially for young men. They do it all the time. There's no problem with that. It's how they find boundaries. And if you don't let them do that, you end up with school, S H O O T E R S. That's why you end up with that. Because I got into this weird Petri dish where we put boys in schools and even girls. And we're like, you always have to be quiet and kind and soft and squishy. And it's just it's not real life. It's harmful to people. And I think that's also harm. Neither of you have addressed any of the massive amount of. I know it was a bit of a gish gallop, but please explain to me broken families. All the broken families are better because we have no fault divorce, which means I just I don't like you anymore. Somebody else's hotter. I'm just bored. I want to go eat, pray, love. I want to go find myself. I want to go see the world. And so we're going to just break up families. And what you talked about with social conditioning is true. If your mom's divorced, your aunt's divorced, your best friend is divorced, your neighbor's divorced. You get divorced. It's what everyone's doing, right? So it's not important to have stable families for kids to grow up in. It's important for Karen to feel sexy and fulfilled in her life. Fuck that. Excuse my language, but you don't just get to bust up families on a whim. It should take a lot more. It takes way more to break a contract of any other kind in society. But because of the feelings of women, we're just going to make divorce this virus that spreads through. I think women who are that stupid should not have kids. I think women. Well, that's most of them. That would be most women. I don't think most women divorce their husbands because one person makes them feel sexier. Most kids are even born out of wedlock now. People don't even bother to get married. They just have baby daddies. Now you think that's true. I think when you reach a point where they are going to divorce for the hot neighbor or whatever, there's so much else going on under that. It's not just that. You can imagine that that's what's going on. You can accuse all these women of only just wanting to be like, being like two or three persons. But it's because we tell them, it's because we tell them they must have a career and they must also have kids. And they should also volunteer at the PTA. And they should, we tell women to do everything. Raising children is a full-time job. It's not a night and weekends gig. I agree. It's not a nights and weekends thing. So how can you tell all the women they need to go be career women? Who's going to have the babies? I don't think either of us are advocating for that. But I also think that Ryan would also advocate. If a woman, I think that there's masculine and feminine and everything. And I think if a woman wants to be the masculine and wants to work, she should be able to. And if a man wants to stay home and raise the kids, she should be able to. You won't say that once you have them. I think it can be. I think I've met plenty of men. Well, everything can be everything. But do you think it's optimal for society to organize itself around men staying at home and women working? I think a society that allows that option to exist is better than when it doesn't. I'm just asking, I'm asking this specifically. I think a society would be more optimal with men working and women staying at home or women working and men staying. No, I don't think we should, sorry, go ahead. I think the most optimal society. If you had to choose the two. I think all else equal. No, because you're asking all else equal. You're asking an impossible question. All else equal. Because I think that I would rather live in a society in a society that is optimal to me. In which we had agency and free will. That is my value. So all else equal, one more time. All else equal. If you don't want to engage with it. Only have these two choices. You just want to control this. Because you avoided, you avoided my entire. You're pigeonholing me in a thing that I'm not, I'm not trying to advocate for. So you don't think there's a difference. We're not saying we should swap the gender roles. We're saying we should expand what it means for them. Yeah, it doesn't matter if it's at home or the mom at home. It's fine. Everything's fine. No, we don't live in libertarian equal utopia. And if you do, and that you guys are against it. Neither of you have kids. I have raised five children. The man can't nurse the baby. He can't get up in the middle of the night and nurse the baby. I had a pump. You can. Not with his breasts. I had a pump and everything else. It is not the same. It's not the same. And when you have kids, you'll understand how it's not the same. Dad being at home and mom trying to hack it in the career world and support an entire family so dad can stay home. Does it technically work in a tiny minority of kids? This is the problem. This is the problem. We shouldn't tell people to do this. OK, Ryan had just said this. I don't think that we're advocating for a switch of the gender roles. We're trying to broaden them. So both parents can be nurturers and both parents can work. But you can't have it all at once. That's not how the world works. Why can't you? You guys live in a libertarian utopia where we're all just interchangeable widgets. And I want to address that. No, we live in a liberal democracy where people should be able to make choices that improve their lives and their families' lives. You're not liberal democracy. Well, I can't hear it because there's too many people speaking at once. We're not liberal democracy enjoyers. Ryan said capitalism. He thinks capitalism is the problem. I think capitalism is a structure to be live under whether night or night. Unluckily for you, I'm in the middle of writing the second book, which is about the experiments we did with feminism in Bolshevik Russia. And how zaps. Are you allowed to write books? Andrew lets you write books. That's like a masculine trait. It's not. Women have always been authors. Again. But why are you at home? Why are you at home knitting blankets and clothing for your children? I am at home, homeschooling the kids, cleaning the house, and cooking the meals. Yeah, what are you talking about? Andrew, do you have a job? Hold on one at a time. Listen, listen, be quiet and listen. The kids are older now. They're between 10 and 21. So now I have entered a phase of life where I do have a little bit of time. And this is what I want to write about. That's fine. Women have always done that. Women have always had a second half of life after motherhood. But you're ambition. But you're ambition. No, it's not ambition. It is ambition. I'm putting out information. I'm not going to do shit like that. I don't have the ambition to do something like that. That is ambition. I'm a smart person. Let's assume for a second. You come off as very logical. You come off as very self-sufficient. And this is what we're advocating for is the broadening of things. You can be a mother. You can be a nurturer. And you can also be dominant in your field, dominant in this conversation, assertive ambition. That does not mean. This is a conversation, frankly. That does not mean that I have to counter Andrew and try to dominate him. That doesn't mean that I have to dominate him. We are not advocating for that. We don't think you should dominate him. One person at a time. Hold on. Steady, steady. Y'all are cool all with you guys. All right, let's hear from Ryan. Ryan, I want to hear from Ryan. Ryan hasn't spoken for a while. And then we'll come back to you. Yeah, but that's good. Yeah. So I was just saying that I've appreciated Rachel's assertiveness, dominance, and competitive nature in this debate. I think she's thrived. I improved my point completely that women should be able to embody these roles. It's fantastic, being certain. True. She's come off as very logical where Andrew's just been a smug asshole, an emotional smug asshole. Very feminine qualities, Andrew. How tall are you? I'm sorry? How tall are you? Well, I don't know. We don't answer questions here, remember? That's also a very gross thing. That would be like him asking you like how big your boobs are. Because we don't know what you're asking for. I'll tell him if he wants to know, but I'm not sure that you want him to ask you. OK, let's move on. Let's go back to the topic. No, no, no, let me answer this directly, OK? But if I do, will you tell me how many men you've slept with? I will. OK, I'm six foot tall. You're lying. No, I'm not lying. I'm six foot tall. OK. Answer. Give me the answer. Oh, you want to know how many men I've slept with? Yeah. Six. I thought you were a prostitute. No. No, just the only fans? Yeah, I slept with two people in real life for money. All right, despite Andrew's strange curiosity, let's go back to the actual topic. He really wanted to know, Rachel, are you going to let him ask me a question like that? And we talk about socialism because I would like to tell you about how in socialist and communist Russia, they told the women that they had to stop seeing themselves as mothers and start seeing themselves as labor units and that the place to support mother Russia was in the factory. And so they had daycares, which were called creches. They had free, paid-for abortion in state hospitals, which only lasted 16 years because they had a three-to-one ratio of abortions to births, and the population was about to collapse. OK. That's what happened when you tried to live in the country. So I'm definitely not advocating for a world where people identify themselves as labor units. I think this should be a little bit of a kill. That's what you get under a socialist conflict. I didn't even say anything about socialism. I just mentioned that we live under capitalism. That's not bad being necessarily. And if we didn't have to work, and I'm totally under a socialist government, yes, all the women would take courage to work. The point that I was making is that right now, we need families to make at least enough income to make sure their basic needs are met so that either one or the other or none can stay home and take care of the kids or they can figure out a way to get those kids taken care of. So why don't we encourage mothers to stay home and raise their children full-time like they ought to? I think we should. And then we just go up for men. Right now, right now, we really need to have opportunities more expensive than ever. Aren't a lot of feminists, aren't a lot of feminists pushing for maternity leave to be longer? No. We're like the only development in the world that does not pay parental leave. Yeah. No, feminists want women in the workforce. Whenever women workforce levels drop, they scream and yell. No, what they want is they want you to be able to take two years of maternity leave and come back at the exact same pay that a man who didn't have to leave for two years is making. Well, I think the man should be able to leave also. Yeah, yeah, parental leave should be gender neutral. But that's not how things work. How are you going to... Not in America. I've been in a lot of developed countries yet. Yeah, but they should work that way. We're advocating for things to work that way. It's better that way. Yeah. It's based on... You already said, you already said that the children thrive with feminine and masculine. Wouldn't it make sense for both a man and woman to raise their kid together? They do, but when is it okay for moms to start being part-time? When is it okay for me to be gone for my kids for 45 hours a week? I think that this is the main difference in our value system is that you say, what is it okay to allow people to do things? When I'm like, okay, what is it? I want people to be able to make that choice with their agency. I don't think that I'm in control of it. Yeah, and that has not worked. We have done that for a hundred years and it's disastrous. Yeah, authoritarian rule does not work either. You're against communism. I'm not talking about authoritarianism. I'm talking about incentivizing. I'm talking about you insisting... I think I've made this argument a billion times. We shouldn't, I'm a big, big advocate for UBI, especially with women who want to stay home. It's hard to live in this society, right? A dual income household is probably necessary at this point, dual income to live. So we incentivize everyone to just follow their heart and do what they want. Is that what we do? We just incentivize everyone... What other reason are we given the gift of life from God for than to enjoy life? Because for service, actually it's a... The libertarian ethos is the totally wrong way to think about it. You're not here to follow your heart and do what you desire. You're here to serve others. You are here to serve others and to make the lives of others better. Imagine how much free time if we didn't have to work. How much free time we could do in... But everyone has to work to live. It is no Utopia where we don't work. So hang on, I've heard this before. So robots are gonna replace the workforce, right, Lav? Not all of the workforce. I think obviously psychiatry, doctors. But I think to some degree, yeah. A lot of jobs will be taken by robots for sure. And what's your evidence for that? My evidence? Yeah. The way that soda machines already exist or the way that mass butchering plants exist. Those machines that a guy has to go and fill up that come from a plant filled with robots that have thousands... That have thousands of employees which are running a snack line, one of the most high-paced, fast-paced robotics jobs you can possibly have, or just a staff loading job. Okay, drones are becoming mailmen now? The labor shortage. The labor shortage that we have. It's because of women in the workforce. I know. No, it's not because of women in the workforce. Well, it actually is. No, it's actually not. The labor shortage. No, no, no, no, no, wait. It actually is after World War II that it literally is. Laugh. The labor shortage that we're currently looking at in the United States. Wait, hold on. Right this second. Okay. Do you know what cost it? The labor shortage? Yeah, it's years of women being in the workforce. It's more people being in the workforce. Yes. More people being in the workforce. We did not have this labor shortage before World War II. We didn't have this labor shortage before World War II. And what was the population pre-World War II? Okay, it's population, but also there are more people in the workforce because women are working. No, it's population. Wait, I'm making like your point. I'm making like your side's point. Well, no, but you're making it incorrectly. You don't know what you're talking about. You think that you're going to be able to replace all these jobs that everybody has with robots. I've heard the left. I didn't say all of them. I didn't say all of them. Okay, I'm paraphrasing, but I've heard the left make this argument a thousand times that robots are gonna come and replace the labor force. They're not going to come replace the labor force. I don't know where you live, but in Los Angeles they're like posts, like they're little robots taking like post-made orders to people now. Like that job is taken. There are like self-driveable cars now that will be able to like- No, there's no self-driveable cars that are driving around and hauling the freight, which is what we really need them for, right? I think there will be, there will be, certainly. No, no, there won't be. Okay, I think there will be. Google's been trying this now for how many years and it's been a disaster for them. Less than 20. Because, do you know why? It's because we can't get them to make moral decisions, right? The cars don't know how to make a moral choice and drivers do. Like they know that if there was a family of two and a family of five, for instance, and they had to swerve, swerve at the family of two, even though it's the lesser of two- How do you know how many people are in a car? If you're in a car? No, I'm talking about a self-driving car. A self-driving car. Can't logic out moral problems. No, but like a human can't be like, can't access files. How many people are in this car or this car? Yeah, and a computer might be, if you're just gonna say it's a raw, if it's like a moral decision, let me finish. Hang on, I barely talked. A moral decision is made up of like a trolley problem where it's like one person here and five person here. Like computers can't. It's just an example. They're really good at that, I promise. Radical, it's just an example. What I'm saying is that the self-driving vehicles can't make these great logical calculations that to you seem like their second nature when you drive. You get so used to it, you don't even really have to think when you're driving anymore. Robotics is not nearly as advanced as you think it is. And what's happening right now is people are really banking a lot on robotics, being able to save the labor force, and it can't. We need more human beings. And what we've been doing is importing them from other countries instead of getting our own domestic population up, which is insane. Now Rachel's saying that this has all been derived from feminism trying to somehow skew these two roles. And the way that these roles have been skewed is that we're looking at women in the workforce who now become a taxable bracket of the population. And it takes two incomes now to support an entire family. That was by design. That was not by accident. And that's the problem. Yes, that's 100% true. It should cost less to raise a family. I can agree with you on that. I can end this debate right now. I will listen to feminists and people like Ryan. He probably considers himself a male feminist. I will listen to feminists about what we should do in society when I start seeing the feminists volunteer to be sewage treatment workers, garbage collectors, cement and concrete layers. When I see them building the roads and being iron workers and doing 20 hour shifts on an oil rig or flying airplanes, I guess I'll listen to the feminists. But until then I like my modern society that runs and works and only men build it and keep it going the end. But isn't that, but to some degree, I thought that your argument was also that that was biological. So even if we broaden these definitions, it won't change if most men want to do things like that. You got it. Which means that the men should stay in charge and the women should run families and keep them. Should stay in charge is a strange thing to say though. We should incentivize it. Why is it strange? It should be encouraged and it should be incentivized. We should uphold motherhood as a wonderful and grand. Why would it need to be incentivized if it was biological if they wanted to do these things? It needs to be incentivized because we spent the last 50 years discouraging it and shaming women and going, oh, you're staying at home all the time. But if it's biological, but if it's biological. No, it's not 100% biological. It's both. I thought we established at the beginning, there's biological factor and there's a special factor. Everything is a mix of genetics and environment. So just to be clear, you think we should push for social forces that encourage women to not want to do things like be pilots and you mentioned that. No, rather we think it's okay to encourage women. Hang on, you would say you wouldn't put it like that, but functionally that's what you wanna do, right? No, I wouldn't say you can't be a pilot off to jail with her. I don't care what you'd say, I'm asking you functionally what you want to do. And what you want them to do. Yes, I'll tell you, I'll tell you. We should go back to what we were doing for the rest of human history prior to this. Were they weren't allowed to be in those positions at all? Where we encourage and venerate motherhood and traditional female roles for women. Why not venerate parent? Why not venerate being a good parent? Why do you have to assess over being tied to the biological sex in this particular position? Because I'm a mother and I know that and you can't be a mother. No one's telling you not to be a mother. You can't do my job that I can do as a mother. No way. You would be a great dad, but you can't be a mom. Only I can be a mom. So I wanna be a mom. Well, I'm also confused because I will personal anecdote because you brought in a personal anecdote. I do not do the fucking dishes. My room is constantly a mess. I don't feed the dogs because I'm spacey. I'm spacey. No, it's not feminism. It's not feminism. No, but you know who was that? One sec, one sec. But my fiance, but my fiance does all the things that he loves to do. He loves to feed the dogs. He loves to take care of the dogs. I'm a lover. I'll pet on my dogs all day, but I just don't, it's not inherently, it's not feminism. I just don't think that way. Well, let me know how that works for you when you've got three or four kids running around and then we'll talk about it then. Well, no, when we have children, which we will, I wanna have as many kids as possible. It'll be a joint effort. Because that's- And then you're gonna have to get over your aversion to housework because it's just- Of course I will. Of course I will. Just like men don't wake up in the morning. I wanna be a trash collector, but someone's not to do that. But I have picked a partner. I have picked a partner who I know is an equal in the way that they will nurture our children in the way that they will take care of our children. I'm just saying- I'm just saying statistically, he's gonna divorce you. That's great. All those marriages is very low. That's like- No statistically, statistically, I'm gonna divorce him. Right, statistically, you're gonna divorce him. Yeah. So, you know- Maybe, and then I'll move on to the next one who will take the brunt of the war. Right, I agree. And then what about your kids? What about your kids though? When you do that, what do you say to your children when you kick their dad out? That's- Well, wait, I wasn't a hypothetical. I'm not going to divorce him. I might fuck the neighbor on the DL if he makes me feel sexy. It's really not funny that women just kick the dad out of the house. In fact, were either of you raised by a single mom? No. Partially. Okay, did your mom work? Yeah, of course. Wouldn't you have rather she stayed home with you? I mean, if I would have been good to have a parent- Yes, no one has ever told me, I ask this question all the time to people with your opinion, and no one has ever said to me, you know what, Rachel, I'm glad my mom was at work all day. It was good for her. Good thing that none of us are advocating for kids to be away from their parents a little more as much as possible. If that was our position, then my mom got us. Wait, Rachel, I had a completely traditional childhood. Like my mom and dad, like my dad worked mostly, my mom stayed home mostly, she worked part-time. You wish your mom was gone all day at work and that you went to daycare? Two-minute warning before the Q&A. Maybe. No, maybe. You don't wish that you were raised in daycare. Maybe. My mom sucked, so I wish I would have spent more time with my dad, but he was out working. He was much more maternal than my mom was. But at every point in my childhood. But would you have rather been raised by an $11 an hour immigrant worker at a daycare? No, no one says, nobody says where did the immigrant come from? Hold on. That's who works in daycares. There might, I mean, there's plenty of families where like that immigrant worker might be a better person. No, no, no, what I was saying, what I was saying is that my dad, my dad was much more maternal. I would have preferred to be, to have the nurturing, the maternal aspect come from my dad instead of this like gender role that was making my mom stay home with me. No, no, what you would have wanted. This very masculine, unloving woman stay home with me. No, what you would have wanted is a mother who embraced motherhood and thought it was a brotherhood. It doesn't matter who it was coming from. I would have wanted a maternal person at home. And we should encourage all women to be maternal. And men. But we don't. The boomer generation of women, your mom's generation, had it beat into their heads that motherhood was full. My mom is 42. Hey, yeah, I'm 42. It was beat into our heads. Beat into our heads that motherhood is a waste of time. And that is looking us back and that we are being trapped. Yeah, it didn't work on you. That's true. It didn't work on you. And it didn't work on, wait, it didn't work on my mom either. My mom really wanted to fit the role. My mom forced herself to fit into a role that she did not excel in. She didn't. And she forced herself. And it didn't work. But that's an outlier. Seems like forcing people into their lives. I doubt that's what happened. I really doubt that. I think she wished, she was going, if I had a career, I wouldn't be bored. If I had a career, things would be better because the feminists lied. If she had a career, she wouldn't have spent so much time drinking. That's the real problem. That's another big problem. That's the real problem. The rates of alcohol among women have skyrocketed since feminism. Sorry. Is that true? Yeah, it's true. It has gone. I don't know. I've seen mad men. Alcoholism's probably been on the rise in men and women. Yeah, it has been. Substance abuse is on the rise for everyone. Just do a quick Google search and you will find that the rise of alcoholism in women over the last five years has been catastrophic. The amount of fetal alcohol syndrome has risen exponentially. Women are trying to cope with feeling like they need to be career women and also wanting to, a marriage and kids and trying to do everything all at once because they've been sold a big fat lie. This might be a great opportunity to go into the Q&A. So do want to say, folks, if you haven't had any questions, we're going to fire through these fast. So I want to let you know you might want to get it in really fast. Fact checker says, actually this one was from Maddie. TRCV says, shout out. We got that one. Coffee mom says, men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them. You asked why? Women, quote unquote, need permission. That's why. Is that okay? Can you repeat that one more time, James? Yep, they said men are afraid that women will laugh at them, but women are afraid that men will kill them. You asked why women, quote unquote, need permission. That's why. It's all bullshit. So most women aren't walking around in any kind of fear that men are going to kill them. There's almost, yeah, they're not walking around in tremendous fear that men are just going to randomly fucking kill them. That's just, I think a lot of women live with that every day. Yeah, that is an insane thing to say. That's why women go out in pairs. That's why they go to bathrooms together. That's why they don't walk at night. What the fuck do you mean? Wait a second. You're saying that there's fear mongering that causes women generally in inner cities to have those feelings, right? A lot of fear mongering. Same reason that we got rid of things like switch blades because there was a movie that came out that billified switch blades. So people thought that gang bangers all carried switch blades. The government actually moved to outlaw them. Same thing with Thompson submachine guns. Most, so what I'm saying is that the chances of you getting assaulted, even if you're by yourself by a man, aren't very high. I've been a, I've been, okay. We've got to move to the next one. This one's going to be an elder tease as most men had to be given the right to vote by other men. True, that's true. This one from Ben Thorpe, AKA Abel says, if James would agree to it, I would love to debate Andrew on the topic, should we trust institutions more in our society? On this channel, Modern Day Debate, a truly neutral platform. Is that one of your enemies, Andrew? He's an ankle biter. He just follows Andrew around the internet and demands to get it. I've already debated him and destroyed him on his. This one from Brandon. Real quick, real quick. I have one thing to say on that, James. I actually, if you're up for it, it's a spicy one. I actually would like to debate you personally on whether or not Modern Day Debate is a neutral platform, but that's for another time. Juicy, I like that. Brandon Hansen says, Lav, the chemicals in the makeup you wear to appear more feminine were mined by guys who would kill you if you threatened their family. I don't, I would argue that I don't need to appear more feminine as I have hips and breasts and a feminine bone structure, but I do wear makeup to look more attractive because people are nicer to me when I look more attractive. Stuart Robinson says, Lav, would you date R.D.? I think they mean, normally I think Radical Coder, but it says R.D., not R.C. It says, R.D., where are you going to hide when the war comes to you? I think they do mean you, Ryan. Is your last name like Douglas or something? So they say- No, I think they just mean R.C. I think they just- Rather than everyone has an interest in Lav's sexual life, but let's go to their question for you, Ryan. Where are you going to hide when World War III comes to you, Ryan? I mean, I will fulfill what necessary roles I can when, if World War III comes to my door, I will do my best to make sure that the people around me are safe and that I can assist them and keep us all alive as much as possible. No, I'm sure they are. Like I would hope most people would. We all have faith in you. We all have faith in you. You're the guy I like. You're the guy I like next to me when that pops off. Brandon Hanson says, Lav will probably hit age 30 and suddenly become very traditional in her values. I have it on- I'm very traditional now. I have it on good authority that this happens to online e-girls. I'm very traditional now. I'm just, I'm for like liberty. People can choose their own destiny. I have, obviously, I want a trapped life. I do. I want a trapped life. But I don't think that every woman does. Yeah, and the best thing is that our system allows people to make that choice. Well, your assistant says, no, you have to be in this box because your home has been said so. I think that most would, if they weren't told that they're a loser, if they're not a boss. I think I, I think I agree with you. I think I agree with you. I think- So let's go back to not incentivizing boss bitchery. Let's go back to incentivizing motherhood. Or it's incentivizing, do whatever you want to do. Let's not put anyone in the box. I don't, you have to be a moral relativist to think that that's moral relativism. Just saying. This one coming in from, do you appreciate your questions? Tim Zimlick says, radical coder, were you or any of your male friends growing up given ADD medication? Boys in the last few decades have literally been drugged to suppress their natural boisterousness. Can you justify this? He's on it right now. He's on it right now. So, that's actually an interesting conversation because I definitely exhibited ADHD throughout my life. However, it was my choice to start taking medication when I was 24 and it drastically improved my capability to stay focused on things and get shit done. And honestly, I'm all the better for it. I'm glad that I got to make that decision and I do think it helps people. So, I don't know. I think that that's a good thing. But I don't think it's good to over prescribe it but I don't necessarily think it's always over prescribed. And it can't be, that's a problem. Gotcha. And this one from Reverend Coffin's Other Sons as Andrew, my uncle was the stay at home parent for six years raising my cousins while my aunt worked as a head nurse. All their kids turned out fine. Yeah. There are outliers. There are outliers to the situation. No, but yes, and the outliers are good. But what we look at, is your name Andrew? But they should remain outliers. Relax. So anyway, outliers, the way that that works is they're called outliers for a reason because they're fucking outliers. What we're talking about is broad societal prescriptions. We're not talking about the onesie twosie outliers where you can point to and say this thing worked in that instance. Even in those cases, it still likely wasn't optimal. This one coming in from, do you appreciate your question? Noah's Ark, Ark and Kansas. Because I have statistics. That's how I would know that. Yeah, but statistics is generalizations over. That's what it means for everyone. That's my whole point, I know. But we still know what optimization means, right? Yes, sure. But the problem is that you want the authoritarian rule to force people into that. Thank you. We want social norms. We're absolutely outliers that are allowed to be in those positions. The more those outliers that are allowed to be in those positions, the more you might find that people who are even more qualified might see themselves becoming into that position. Juicy, Noah's Ark, Kansas says opposition strategy to build up the female ego with compliments and disparage the male. I rest my case. I haven't complimented any women today. Except for Rachel and us. I think Lav's new debate tactic. Maybe this has just always been her debate tactic. It's just co-plafting through the whole debate. It's just like she says something, co-plafs. You say something, co-plaf. Sorry, I'm just a laffer. I think you just said co-plaf her. This one from Brandon. Maybe that's true. Brandon Hanson at Lav, another one for you. It says, Lav, how many of the men that you have slept with would ask for your hand in marriage? Does your mother know that you have an only fans? Does your father know? I don't have an only fans. My parents did know that I engaged in sex work. How many of those men? I've been engaged twice. And I've lit most of the men who I've been with have seen a future with me. You got it. And Stuart Robinson says, radical coder. It must be. Is your last name Douglas? It must be because they keep saying RD. No, it's not. They, well, nonetheless, it's your new name. RD and Lav are against society norms. The union between a man and a woman is the most beautiful experience. Yeah, it's challenging. But when you see your own children produce their children, it all makes sense. I'm going to say that when it comes to the union, the beautiful union between a man and a woman, that beautiful union probably isn't that beautiful for a man who weren't allowed to marry the people they loved. And now they need to have their beautiful union. And I think that's a better world. And oh, yeah, I think it's shitty. And that you're making the world a worse place when you advocate against them having that right. So fuck you. I think there's something really beautiful in femininity, meeting masculinity. I do. I would agree with that, obviously. I am tried con at heart. But I don't necessarily think that it needs to come from a biological man and a biological woman. I think that there is yin and yang in everyone. And I think that even gay couples can find yin and yang. I just I don't understand. Relativism. I don't understand where this comes from. Everyone's the same. It's all the same. Where is where is this? When I talk about people in like, uh, uh, leaning into their own unique strengths, like more individualism, we're definitely, definitely hasn't been the whole fucking point. I just, I got asses. But you never proved how that was better. I gave you all these stats of horrible things that have happened from following your ideology and you had nothing. You were just like, well, I just think it's bad. And it doesn't do this. I just asked about bad things. He said, feminism did this. Yeah. And you didn't say, well, since feminism hears all the great things, I can point to you had nothing. You're just like, we just like it better. Just on principle, we just like it. That's all you got. Well, because I think it's the world that we want to, that we want to live in. I think that there will be collateral for either for your position and our position. And I think that we are willing to take a little bit of collateral to have personal liberty. Well, next time you guys do a debate, you're supposed to make a case. You're supposed to make an argument. So try that next time. Yeah, what? By the way, don't you want to see all kinds of personal liberties restricted? No, what? You don't. What do you mean? Like only fans, wouldn't you want to see that restricted? Yeah. Really? So you do. So you do want to see some personal liberties restricted? Sure. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So the thing is, I don't think that people should be able to kill people and not go to jail. I think that was never a reason. This is like a straw man. What was the straw man? I asked you a direct question and he gave me a direct answer for once. Like some things, yeah, like we shouldn't be able to like kill people for sure. But if you were having only fans, I will, I think that you should be able to have an only fans, not if you're under 18, for example. But you would like, would you like to see like government have policy or any type of local policy discouraging young women from getting an only fans? Not policy. No. No. So how would you do it? What way would you discourage it? Just a cultural, a cultural conversation shift and informed consent. A cultural conversation shift. This is coming in front. Consent based utilitarian moral relativism. Amen. Is it? It doesn't work. You have produced a hell world that now my kids have to grow up in. I haven't produced anything. I'm a baby. I just entered. I just started voting like three years ago. So I haven't produced anything. So where does he go? Jumping to the next question. Geretto, thank you very much. It's a great show and said, I never hear men say that they want it all. Many women want to have it all. Is that possible? I think they need children, family, and career. Women's natural narcissism. I think it's a beautiful thing. Do you say women's? Yeah, where's the tradcon part come in? He keeps saying your tradcon and heart. Here's different. I think that we have different. So I grew Jewish. And I think that you guys are probably more. Yeah. So I think I believe in like a matriarchal. Yeah, I'm a cultural feminist. I think that women hold a lot of the cards. I think it's not. It is tradcon. It's just not the opposite of. It's just not Christian. That's the only type of tradcon. That's what traditional is. The thing with your mom. I'm sorry, what do you think a traditional conservative is? It's God country borders, right? Yeah, Israel. Explain Israel. OK, so if you're going to be a tradcon in the United States, is this a Jewish nation? It should. Well, a lot of people know you. You were about to say it should be. No, I didn't. I said a lot of people don't know you. You've been on cozy TV. You were about to say it should be. No, I don't think it should be. I'm culturally Jewish. I'm not religiously Jewish. This one coming in from appreciate it. Brandon Hansen says, if Laf couldn't make a lot of money by her looks, she wouldn't be doing manual labor jobs. She would just make less on only fans or actually be married. Well, I am getting married, so I don't know. Maybe. This is Beyoncé, too. Wait, wait. It sounds to me like her definition of tradcon is I don't want to work or do anything. I want to marry a guy who does everything for me and does all the hard things and lifts the heavy stuff. So I'm going to just stay here and look cute. That's what it sounds like. I'm just saying that. That's certainly not what it is. I'm in school to be a doula right now. I really value femininity and motherhood. I really value that. I think that you're in school to do what? To be a doula. What the fuck is that? It's a midwife. That is they deliver babies, but they also perform. You have a midwife. They don't perform. Doulas don't. They're not medical practitioners. They do not perform abortions. But you can have an abortion. I should backtrack. Before the medicalization of abortion in the 50s, they were the ones who did all the abortions, which is why they were always witch hunted and stuff. Sure. But I think I'm also I'm also I'm also very young and the internet has raised me. So I think that I will change. I'm in the process of changing to a more mother. I wouldn't have a kid now. I'll start by saying that, obviously. But when I do have children, I I will take motherhood extremely seriously. Yeah. When you're in your when you're in your early 30s and you're having a struggle with it because fertility drops like a rock. See, trad cons. You don't have to worry about my fertility, Andrew. Trad cons also get married young, generally. I'm just trying to figure out where the trad con part ever comes. I'm getting married right now. And I'm pretty young. Well, I mean, you're not married. And you've had fiance's before. So I mean, this might just be fiance number two, number three, number four. You know what I mean? Maybe 100. Yeah. Maybe. Perhaps that's true. Good point, Andrew. Who knows? Appreciate your question. Sunflower says, RC and laugh, how do you feel about the phrase, bloom where you're planted? In particular, referring to women are planted biologically to be mothers. The path of least resistance for women to feel fulfilled is to be mothers. I think that for the most part, that is true. Wait. Wait, is that is that true? Someone's telling me, do you actually have a tattoo of the boffamette on you? You're talking to Ryan? No. The lab. This one coming in from Grace Thorpe says, Rachel, I agree with you, but don't think you'd make your point, but don't you think that you would make your point way better if you didn't shoot guns, write books, and weight lift? That's not exactly traditional motherhood. You do masculine things. You are a modern woman. And we love you forever. Well, I'm glad that Grace brought that up, even though she's permanently banned from the Crucible for the rest of time for stalking me like a psychopath on the internet. I talk about this often. I'm the least likely person to be advocating for traditional femininity in a lot of ways. However, the fact that I do it. You're an outlier. It happens more than you think. No, doing those things taught me a lot. I can shoot guns better than most women, but I can't shoot guns better than most men. I can lift more weight than most women, but I can't lift more weight than even probably Ryan can. I'm serious. There's biological differences. I believe you. And I want men to be running things and be in charge of things so that I can take care of the responsibilities I have at home. So you can sit at home and look pretty, Rachel? No, I work very hard. Having five children is very labor-intensive. It's very difficult. And it's not something you can do with a career. I think that is, I think the hardest job and the coolest job is being a mom. So there's no, there's no laugh there. Being a parent is probably one of the most rewarding positions. I'm what we used to call a tomboy. Right now, we tell all the girls who grew up like me that they need to start taking hormones and growing their tits off. No, we don't. I'm just what we kind of do. I'm just a tomboy. The fact that it's more available doesn't mean we're telling all the women to do a tomboy. Those tomboys grew up to be really great moms, right? And we live out in the country where sometimes I got to chop some wood and shoot some varmints and things like that. So there's nothing wrong with women being strong. It's just when they think that they need to usurp men and be in control and control freak everything that we have a problem. But don't you think that women's natural highness and neuroticism would make women naturally control freaks? They are controlling, but because they have natural. No, so their biological imperative is to control. It's supposed to be. A biological imperative is to oppress. No, the women's imperative is supposed to be to raise children. We're supposed to control the children. It goes man, woman, children, right? We're not supposed to usurp the authority of the men. Because when we do that, again, all hell breaks loose. But how would you describe it? So obviously, we already talked about IQ being mostly in general women having higher IQs. What would you say to the average woman who is going to date a man who is more dumb than her? That's actually, it doesn't work like what you're saying. IQ is not an indicator of success in every area of life. So if you're- What's the biggest indicator of success? Only if you're talking about careerism, only if you're talking about certain things. So if you want to be a mom and have kids, you need a man to provide for you because you are going to have a baby stuck to your boob for two years, okay? You don't take it from someone who's done it. You don't want to try to be not sleeping all night, sleeping in hour or two hour increments and then going to work all day and managing daycare and trying to get to conferences. That is bullshit. It's a little more- The more that the man can continue to do that, the better, right? True. No, the man needs to take care of the providing and protecting part so the woman can do the mothering and the home making part. But why is it so hard to provide? Capitalism? No, because we doubled the workforce- More of that trag con coming out. We doubled the workforce from 1969 to 1989 by pushing all the women into it. That's why. Exactly. That was like- They should stay home with their kids. I just, I gotta ask this. So, trag con to you, trag con at heart because it sounds to me, honestly, from what you have said, that you're a former only fans working communist- You're not a communist. Well, then what are you talking about? Capitalism being bad. Socialist? I didn't say that- Can't talk about the harms of capitalism. Yeah, I think that you can, I think that I'm still like, I'm like, oh, capitalism is the best thing that we got but there's still some criticism of it, right? So now- You can prove that we need to definitely do better. So capitalism's not the problem? She wants you to be I. I think that capitalism isn't the problem, but I think that there are some things with capitalism that are bad, that we could probably remedy. Which things? I do, just so we don't go off topic, this one coming in front of me. Hi, Flower of Fire says there's very few real men these days. It's good to see Andrew smoking a real cigarette, a camel without a filter. So a camel, non-filters are good cigarettes, but the guys who smoke the lucky strikes with no filters got both of us beat. I smoke lucky strikes without filters. To answer your question from the last thing- Am I? One of the first steps is paid parental leave. Like we were talking about earlier, that would be one way to improve capital. Nobody wants to hear about your socialist garbage, but I will tell you- Paid parental leave, you heard it first folks, is socialist garbage. Smoking is an aromatase inhibitor and actually increases testosterone. So, holy shit, that's why I'm so alpha. That's why more alpha than Andrew. This one coming in front- Why are you wearing alpha than Ryan? Brandon Hansen says- It's more like we need to get lung cancer, that's for sure. Brandon Hansen says, why is Laval out to lie about her arguments? She says anything against what Erie-Chill and Andrew say, she has contradicted herself this whole time. I don't know, they don't say in particular what he lied about. Well, she literally has contradicted herself the entire debate. It's been amusing. No way happened. It's been amusing for me a lot. Multiple things can be true at once. In fact, I even asked you- Hold on, just to be, just, all right, this is just, I'll give, because we want to get through as many questions as we can. We're going to go to Lav a chance to respond because it was for her. Otherwise we're going to move to the next one. This one from- Well, yeah. Tim Ziblick says, Lav, if your husband says he's going to do the breastfeeding, you should divorce him. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. This one from- You read what it- Hypewire says, there's quote, we got that one, that's about Andrew's choice of cigarettes. This one Brandon Hansen says, traditional lifestyle, not cleaning, not cooking, not feeding the dog, considering adultery because the neighbor makes you feel sexy, having done only fans in the past, making fun of your husband, you were a true role model, Lav. Making fun of him? When did I do that? I don't remember. I think my fiance is the best man I've ever met in my fucking life, and he is traditionally masculine. This one from Noah's Art, Kansas. What a shock, what a shock. I'm not saying that that's not the normal. I'm not saying that's not the normal. This one from- I'm just advocating for the outliers to exist, if that's what works. Noah's Art, Kansas says, people quote, unquote, knowing nothing because they just started voting three years ago should not be able to vote. No honest stake in society, oy vey. First of all, it was five years ago. I was making myself sound a little younger. You need to start young. I'm gonna be 22 for the next five years. This one from Just LOL says, you're liberals. You need to hear this. They say, freedom for freedom's sake leads to a degenerate society. Freedom is supposed to be used as a means to an end. Use it in responsible ways to perpetuate stable families and a good community. I'm not sure that I agree with that perception of freedom, but yeah, maybe that's another conversation. I don't know, I don't think about that. Brandon Hanson says, the more I argued with them, the better I came to know, they're dialectic. First, they counted on the stupidity of their adversary and then there was no other way out. They themselves simply played stupid. I don't think you're that stupid, Andrew. Good, thank you. This one coming up, Rob, do you appreciate your question? Truvi says, question for the suicide. Right equals might equals nation slash society. Ask Afghanistan about toxic masculinity and feminism. There's a lot of toxic masculinity in those environments as well, and it's not good. And the oppression of women there is also really bad and worse in fact, because they like lean into it worse. I wouldn't even call it toxic masculinity. I think it's just toxicity. I don't think that masculinity is inherently toxic. I just, yeah. Well, I don't think that's what toxic masculinity means, but I think that's what a lot of people think it means. I think there's like people on Andrew's side that often try to frame it that way. And I think it's a tragedy and it's because they went to reject acknowledging those toxic things. Well, I think what you suffer from is a toxic lack of masculinity. Maybe so. I think it works in the reverse order actually. I don't think it works in the one way. I think it works the other direction. This one. A lack of masculinity creates guys like you, Ryan. Based more me. This one from Grace Thorpe. Your buddy, Rachel says, I love laugh. A nice woman who wears pretty makeup and lets Andrew talk, unlike Rachel. Oh, God. Oh, no. I love massaging in the comments. I'll never recover. This one from Gireto says, Lab is five years away from needing a whole new personality. She is pretty, but none of this will be aging well. The knee tattoos, book it, modern day debate. I don't know what will you do. This is pen. You got it. This one from Joshua Manila says, can you describe how paid parental leave is socialist? Rachel, can you define socialism? That's a good question. I can define socialism, but I would rather die than have another conversation about socialism. It's completely uninteresting to me. I'm a woman. I don't want to talk about economics. Holy based, but it's literally true. This one from Jack Robert. Appreciate it says, Lab, why do women go for the bad boy or masculine men over weak or shy or soft or puny men as partners? I don't think that that's true. Except in your case. What do you mean? My man is extremely masculine. That's the whole point. Is asking, why do women go for those guys? I don't think that they do. I think those guys are now. Just you though. My fiance is traditionally masculine. Yeah, but wasn't the question, why do women go for the masculine men? Why don't they? No, no, they're saying like, why do women go for the like strong men over the weak, shy men? I don't know. I mean, you don't know. I think that, well, I think oftentimes women go for men who they feel like honored by. I don't think it has to do with like, I've never looked at them. Maybe I have looked at a man carry something heavy and felt a tickle, but I don't know. Maybe it's evolutionary. Who's to say? You want to be taken care of? You want the best chance for your offspring? You don't know why women would be attracted towards men who acted like men, really? This is a complex question for you. No, no, no, I like, masculinity is attractive. Like being strong is attractive. That aesthetic is attractive, but also if a man cannot be empathetic to me or kind to me or collaborative, then I'm not attracted to him. And I don't think that, I don't think a lot of women are. Juicy. Well, last one, Brandon Hansen. Thanks for your question. It says, Lab as a shapeshifter, just like her fellow cohorts, she takes the position that allows for her to take the win in any conversation. Lab, is this true? It means you won. Yeah, does that mean I won? Nice. Another victory for the rest of the space. I think this is my, I have a, I have a severe pace of centrist items. And I think that I just can fence it until I die, hopefully. Juicy, with that one is a focus, thanks so much for all of your questions. Huge thank you to all of our guests who are linked in the description, whether you'd be listening here or at the podcast, which is growing rapidly. Thanks for all of your support, folks. I'm gonna be back in just a moment with a post-credits scene letting you know about upcoming debates. So stick around with that one last thank you. Ryan, Lab, Rachel and Andrew, it's been a true pleasure to have you tonight. Thank you. Amazing. We'll be right back in just a moment, folks. All right. Thank you very much everybody for being with us. My dear friends, want to say thank you guys for being here. We are excited about the future. We are excited about tonight's debate. Wasn't that a good one? That was fun. Want to say our guests are linked in the description. If you would like to hear more from them, you can certainly click on those links right now. What are you waiting for? As well as thanks, Geretto says, I want to debate, homie. Geretto, I will let you know my email right here in chat because I do appreciate it. It sounds like that was it, like what you were saying in that super chat. So if you want to, I'm willing to set it up and we'll see if it is, if it's against Lab, we'll see if she's up for it. I can't guarantee it. Although I've got to say Lab generally is actually pretty open to coming on. So want to say we do appreciate all of you folks. Thanks for all of your support. I've got a couple of minutes before I've got to run. So I want to say thanks for your support. What is worse, a lady, C-U-C-K or guy one. Thanks for coming by as well as Grace Thorpe. Thanks for being with us. Cocoa but a D. Thanks for dropping in as well as Brandon Norwood. Glad you're here. Redfish Bear. Glad to have you with us. Joe Anon. Happy to have you here as well as Dornop had. And my dear friends, Thor Potocos. Glad to have you here. I see you there in the live chat. Thanks for your support. Primark290, thanks for coming by. Heat Shield, good to see you. Thanks for being a mod. And thanks for coming by. Felix, glad to have you here as well as want to say folks, as you have already heard, if you saw earlier, we had Jess who was here as a co-mod. Want to encourage you to be friendly to Jess. We do appreciate Jess reaching out and saying, hey, I'd be happy to help the channel. So I do want to say we really do appreciate Jess. So please do make Jess feel welcome as Jess will probably eventually, if Jess wants to, if, you know, if she actually wants to continue. Like we'll probably have Jess on again including on as a possible actual moderator solo. In other words, without me here, once the tech stuff is trained in. Again, that's up to Jess. But want to say, please do welcome Jess as we do appreciate people who reach out and they want to help. Another person who helps a ton. I've got to give him some street cred. His sideshow nav in chat has helped the channel a ton. He has helped us organize for our conferences, which I'm going to drop the news about the conference soon. I can't do it yet. We don't have all of our debates settled, but for real, it's going to be quick. It's going to be in the next several days and I anticipate that we will drop the news about our huge next conference. It's going to be gigantic. It's going to be in Dallas, more specifically Plano actually. And it's going to be coming fast. It's going to be on Saturday, November 19th and Sunday, November 20th. We're going to do the same thing as our last conference that was in person. There will be one day of political debates and one day of religion debates. This will be a big one, you guys. We have got some big people that we're speaking to. Seriously, you don't want to miss it. So keep an eye out for that. It's going to be a two-day in-person debate. And Chris Gammond is actually another person who has helped our channel, just volunteered. So just kind of like, hey, you know, I love the channel, how can I help? And seriously, it helps more than you know. People like them, Amanda is another person. She lives in the Dallas area. She helped us find our venue for this next conference. She actually helped us find the first one too. I would say frankly, she founded herself. Like we didn't even have a part. Amanda just did it for us. So we are indebted to Amanda. We're very thankful. And seriously, we appreciate you, Amanda. But yeah, want to say please do welcome all the people that volunteer to make modern day debate grow faster. As hey, we are going to be honest. We're not ashamed of the fact. We do want to grow. Do hit that subscribe button. And the reason is we think that our vision offers value to YouTube. It's important. It's meaningful. It's this, namely that everybody wants a fair debate platform so that their side, every side, has their chance to make their case on a level playing field. That's what we've come here to do. That's what we're going to continue to do. And I've got to tell you, the reason is we've seen debate channels out there. We want to make sure that we only host debates. We don't have any interviews where someone gets to come on and share their views unopposed. No, no, no. We have debates, period. It's survival of the fittest ideas here. Namely, the strongest ideas are going to rise to the top. And we're going to let 1,000 flowers bloom because we want people to have their chance to say what they want. We want to be able to cover the topics that the mainstream media won't cover. And for us, it's also important we want to be fully neutral as we do it, because that's fair. And that's the way it ought to be. It should be merit-based, whoever has the best arguments wins. And a lot of people say, James, I'm concerned. Sometimes you let on people with controversial ideas. Sometimes you have controversial speakers. Some of them have already been banned on YouTube and you have them on your channel. The reason is this, folks. As we mentioned, we want to let things be truly fair and let things be truly free, such that everybody can make their case on a level playing field and that they can say what they want. Now, why is that important? In terms of this channel, we are not afraid that some sort of faulty information will negatively influence people, because in the spirit of competitiveness, we believe the best arguments will win out. Believe me, that's what happens. It is, like I said, the survival of the fittest ideas. So I want to say thank you guys for all of your support. Thank you guys for making this channel as awesome as it is. Another way to share or I should say help this channel is to share it. So feel free, don't forget to hit that share button and share a modern day debate as we are a neutral channel. And frankly, I would argue the only neutral channel, as I would argue, that there's one that's bigger than us in particular. You could say an organization that we are working on giving a challenge to, because we believe that we are more fair, frankly, because we only host debates. We've noticed, for example, that Intelligent Square will sometimes have interviews where the person comes on and they're unopposed. And how do we know that it's not one particular political side that gets more of those interviews where they're not opposed by somebody as an opponent? So for us, we really do feel like YouTube deserves a better class of a debate channel. And we're going to give it to them. So I want to say thanks for all of your support, you guys. Thanks for all of your kind words, seriously, the encouragement, all the likes as well. If you haven't yet hit that like button, that helps us in the algorithm as well. And like I said, if you have maybe a Twitter group that you hang out in, or a Discord server, or a Facebook page, hit that share button and share this link, because that helps us through the old fashioned just grassroots word of mouth, that really has a lot of credibility. That really does help us grow. So we want to say thank you guys for all of your support, helping us grow as you have as this channel has been exploding in the last several years. It means more than you know, guys. We're excited about the future. And we are excited about all of the upcoming debates. So we will see you next time. We hope you guys have a great night and keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable. And we'll see you next time.