 Yng nghymru ar y rai lleidio cyflwy Search for the Focus is a member's business debate on motion ddwbl 1200 in the name of Kenneth Gibson on celebrating Age Scotland's 80th anniversary. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put. I invite members wishing to participate to press the request to speak buttons now, or as soon as possible. I invite Mr Gibson to open a debate around seven minutes please. I thank you, Presiding Officer, as I do members, from across the chamber who signed my motion and facilitated yng nghymru eich cyfgallwll ar gyfer ynghylch Llywodraeth, 80 ysgol. Ac rydym i ddweud Adam Stacura, mewn gallu yn ddiogel, ac yn ddwylo adeiladr Sgoln ar gorffent o'r bwysig o'r bwysig ar y lluniau. Felly rydyn ni'n fawr i'w cwestiwn, ond rydyn ni'n gwybod trafod amddangos, is unable to be here this evening due to extreme back pain. I believe this to be a very timely topic. Scotland's people are on average getting increasingly older, indeed by 2045 almost half the population we over the age of 50, including me. In the past 80 years, Age Scotland has given older people a voice through myriad campaigns, research publications, workshops and community developments. On 22 January 1943, in the midst of World War II, the first gathering of the Scottish Older People's Welfare Committee took place here in Edinburgh. This earlier incarnation of Age Scotland had a clearly defined mission. To gather information about the welfare of older people, provide a platform for discussion and to raise awareness and campaign for older people to ensure that their needs were met. The major challenges for people in 1943 were homes and housing, poverty alleviation, practical support at home and addressing social isolation. Many of the same issues that my elderly constituents raised with me are no doubt members across Scotland. It is undeniable that significant progress has been made in the past eight decades and that has never been a better time to grow old, not least due to the tireless work of numerous older people's welfare committees over the years. Life expectancy has risen dramatically since the 1940s and the past eight years has seen the creation of the national health service programmes such as Meals on Wheels, an increase in the number of residential homes, care at home, concessionary travel, improved state pensions, social clubs and outings, and activities for older people. More recent achievements include a pension linked to earnings and free personal and nursing care, as well as a rapid spread of the men's sheds movement and other support groups. While progress is undeniable, many overarching concerns and challenges faced by older people in Scotland remain. Age Scotland recently published its big survey of 2023 findings, in which more than 4,100 people over the age of 50 shared their views and experiences. The three main issues that respondents highlighted were a lack of accessible housing, housing affordability and fuel poverty. The on-going cost of loan crisis has exacerbated that with the number of pensions on fuel poverty having doubled in the past two years. Age Scotland's free help link can help older people maximise their income by running benefit checks and social security advice. So far this year, we have identified £1.13 million of financial support for older people. Another finding in the survey was that, while a vast majority of older people have access to the internet, 19 per cent of over-60s do not use it—around 273,000 people. Unsurprising, therefore, digital exclusion is often a barrier to accessing services such as applying for a blue badge. Just as an example, on yesterday, an early constituency walked into my Dorae constituency office to inquire about the local bin up-left schedule as a local authority in the longer dollar's physical copies. Pensers do not always receive their due income with £123,000 across Scotland who are eligible for pension credit, not in receipt of it. It comes as no surprise that older people, the cohort most likely to require medical attention, often express frustration at the difficulty in obtaining a GP appointment, with many practices not even having telephone queuing systems, a matter that I have frequently raised myself. 82 per cent of respondents indicated that they preferred an in-person GP appointment, with only 1 per cent having a preference for a video or telephone consultation. I trust that the Scottish Government has given close consideration to the findings of the big survey and will take them into consideration when making decisions affecting older people. After having talked about older people's challenges and concerns, I will now focus on the incredible contribution that older people make to life in Scotland. A third of respondents of Age Scotland's big survey currently volunteer and a further 23 per cent had previously done so. Age Scotland supports over 400 community groups across Scotland, many are run by dedicated local volunteers who work to make communities better places for older people and indeed others. It was also inspiring to speak to winners of Age Scotland's annual awards at their recent parliamentary reception, which I was proud to sponsor. I again congratulate Solcoats and Forces and Veteran's Breakfast Club for my constituency on running the Patrick Brooks award for best partnership working for all that they can do and all that they do do to support the significant number of ex-and-forces personnel living in the area where feeling lonely and missing the comradeship of serving together is still all too common. Loneliness is an issue that is still affecting many, many older people and almost half of survey respondents said they sometimes feel lonely. Age Scotland's friendship line, operated by friendship colour volunteers, provides companionship and a listening ear to people who are 50 and over. It is open Monday to Friday, 9am to 5pm and people may phone about absolutely anything and someone will pick up to listen, provide friendship and offer support. I am sure that the minister who has put following includes social isolation and loneliness strategy would tell us more about action that the Scottish Government is taking to address loneliness, but I will mention the recently launched social isolation and loneliness fund, which will provide £3.2 million to 53 community projects and organisations between August this year and July 2026. Groups such work to tackle social isolation and loneliness throughout Scotland include choirs, men's sheds, lunch clubs and many, many others. Funding has also been provided to be the community development trust in my constituency, which is involved in numerous projects across the Garnock valley and in which the minister visited in August to meet with Alasenbury, local reid of the Lendonia befedding service. The community-driven initiative aims to foster a sense of belonging and safety among individuals from the area who might otherwise be grappling with feelings of solitude. It is organisation such as this that makes such an invaluable contribution to many older people and others across Scotland. In conclusion, I congratulate Scotland on the eightieth birthday and thank you for eight decades of advocacy, support, campaigning, research publications, community projects and their magnificent hot tips calendars, which currently are eagerly awaited. Crucially, it must be our goal to be a country where older people are always valued. Thank you, Mr Gibson. I send my best wishes to Christine Grahame for a speedy recovery. We move to the open debate. I call for Alexander Stewart to be followed by Colin Smyth. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would like to thank Kenneth Gibson for bringing this important debate to the chamber this evening. Today's debate is an opportunity for me to step into old shoes for the years that I spent as my party spokesperson on older people, which was a role that I took with great pride. As I turn 61 today, I am a proud older person. It is also an opportunity to discuss some of the biggest challenges facing older people across Scotland, some of which I have spoken about before in this chamber. Age Scotland's second big survey provides a detailed snapshot into the challenges older people face in Scotland in 2023, with over 4,100 people over the age of 50 contributing to that survey. The survey highlighted on-going issues with older people's mental health, with the responsibilities that they have and the effects that they have had long-lasting. Many of that has been caused from the Covid-19 situation. Loneliness is often an issue that comes up when discussing the mental health challenges facing older people, and the survey confirms that that is still a very much alive issue. Nearly half of the respondents in the survey sometimes felt lonely and 10 per cent said that they feel lonely either most or all of the time. On the issue, there are 400 organisations and community groups that age Scotland's support, and that is vitally important that they are helping to prevent tackling loneliness. However, many of those groups are struggling to keep their doors open and to keep the lights on. We have seen that at least 30 groups have been forced to close in recent years. Looking forward to the important issues that those groups are supporting, we will continue to provide support for individuals. It is a lifeline across communities, and I commend and congratulate all of them. The First Minister was entering office when the survey was carried out, and respondents were asked about what priorities the Government should be taking. Unsurprisingly, both social care and NHS ranked highly among those priorities. Respondants suggested highlighting the importance of reducing waiting lists and maintaining a seamless joined approach when it came to social and healthcare. It also talked about that individuals only felt that 4 per cent of the respondents linked that priorities like independence were things that should be catified. However, one of the biggest concerns that we saw when we looked at the findings was that just 13 per cent of older people felt that they feel valued for their contribution to society. That was even lower than the figure that we saw for 21 per cent, which was recorded in the survey that came out in 2021. Among the many of the pieces of research carried out by Age Scotland in their big survey, it has provided an important spotlight on older people's priorities and the challenges that they are facing within their communities. It is very important at a time when the views of older people are rapidly given the attention that they deserve. I thank Age Scotland for doing that and ensuring that it has a voice piece. Today's debate gives members the chance to reflect on the fantastic work that Age Scotland has done over the past 80 years, which have supported countless older people in their lives across communities. I know from my region of Mid Scotland and Fife that there are numerous organisations and individuals who have benefited from Age Scotland's support, but also by organisations and charities that have benefited and supported many individuals who have loneliness. We have heard today that Kenneth Gibson talked about men's sheds across my region of Mid Scotland and Fife. I visited those fantastic organisations where men come together to support one another, and that is a real benefit. I know that Kenneth Gibson wishes the chief executive, Catherine Crawford, the best for success for going forward. I also do that, because it is vitally important in supporting both the members and individuals in communities and constituencies that people who are older have a voice, and that voice is truly heard. I can be for sure what better way to celebrate a birthday than taking part in a member's debate. Many happy returns. I now call Colin Smyth to be followed by Rona Mackay around four minutes, Mr Smyth. Thank you, Presiding Officer, for allowing me to speak ill in the debate. My apologies to other members that the change of date means I have to leave before the end to attend another event, but I was keen to add my congratulations and my thanks to Age Scotland on their 80th anniversary. I am grateful to Kenneth Gibson for his motion that allowed us the opportunity to do so, because we owe Age Scotland a huge debt of gratitude for the work that it does every day supporting older people in our constituencies, whether that is through its excellent advice lines, its support for older people's community groups over 400 across Scotland, its equality work, its research, its campaigns, its excellent about dementia initiative, the need for this work has never been more important. We just have to listen to the heartbreaking evidence to the Covid inquiries of families not able to see loved ones in their care home because we couldn't get our act together over testing of social care packages that were removed at that time. Of older people feeling as if they were under pressure to sign do not attempt resuscitate agreements, the loneliness, the isolation they felt during lockdown and, of course, the devastating death toll among those in later life during the pandemic, especially in our care homes. I don't think any of us can hold our hand on our heart and say that during that period of Covid-19, the human rights of older people were being upheld. Today, as we are all inundated with cases from constituents whose mainly older relatives are stuck in hospital because we don't value carers enough to pay them properly, we are still not meeting the needs of those older people. There is also a misconception that the current cost of living crisis isn't something that's hitting older people. The Scottish Government's own figures show that almost one in six people of pension aid in Scotland are living in poverty and that number is on the rise. We are in danger of another pandemic, a poverty pandemic. Too many of our older people also face multiple forms of discrimination on the regular basis and are too often negatively stereotyped. We should be celebrating, as Kenny Gibson rightly said, the immense contribution older people make to our communities. I had the privilege of attending that recent parliamentary reception hosted by Mr Gibson to celebrate 80 years of age Scotland. I had the honour of presenting one of the annual awards to Betty Glenn as volunteer of the year. Wonderful handcrafted wooden awards, I have to say, which were made by the men's shed in Dolbyty in my South Scotland region. Betty's award, the awards themselves are a small reminder of the big contribution of older people make in our communities and we should celebrate it more. Too often, they are underappreciated and the issues they face are too often weighed down the political agenda. None of us will be surprised by the age Scotland's big survey that Kenny Gibson and Alexander Stewart mentioned, which shows that only 13 per cent of respondents felt older people were valued, far less than the 21 per cent just two years ago. All of us should be worried that just 3 per cent of older people felt it was easy to have their voices heard by us decision makers. That is why I hope that we do not just celebrate the work of age Scotland but that all of us in Parliament will listen to them a lot more. Their calls, for example, along with more than 20 other charities for older people to be reinstated in the title of the minister and their calls along with more than 35 charities and organisations for the appointment of a commissioner for older people to give those in later life, that independent champion, that strong voice with real statutory powers, just as they have in Wales and just as they have in Northern Ireland and just as children rightly have in all four nations. Presiding Officer, that would show real backing for the work of age Scotland and for Scotland's older people. In conclusion, Presiding Officer, I know that age Scotland is under new leadership with Catherine Crawford as the new chief executive. I have an excellent appointment with someone who brings a wealth of experience and skills in working with older people to the role of taking age Scotland forward. So I want to wish Catherine well, all her team well and to thank them on behalf of older people in my region for all the outstanding work and encourage all members in particular to back that work with our actions in Parliament. I thank my colleague Kenny Gibson for bringing this debate to the chamber. I hadn't expected to speak today. I'm very happy to be Christine Graham's stand-in. I haven't prepared anything, so it's just a very short speech. Actually, it's the first time I've heard Kenny Gibson admit that he's getting older, so that's quite something. As Kenny says, there's never been a better time to grow old. Age Scotland is getting older, 80th birthday. I would like to add my thanks to them, along with Alexander Stewart and others, just to thank them for everything that they do for older people. It's easy to not value older people and the huge contribution that they make to our society. The question of health is very important. I think that physical health, obviously, is important and particularly mental health is important. That's why organisations and charities such as men's sheds and things are so important. I visited several men's sheds in my constituency and it's just fantastic the wellbeing that it brings to the men that go there and keeps them mentally strong and gives them a reason to get out of bed in the morning. Also, volunteering was mentioned in Easton Bartonshire. In my constituency, we've got a thriving voluntary sector. The Easton Bartonshire Voluntary Association has lots of initiatives. One of them is a befrender initiative, in which they match up young people with older people. That's been hugely successful. That does so much to combat loneliness and to help the wellbeing of absolutely everybody. However, as Collin and others have said, it's not all a bed of roses. Older people are struggling with the cost of living and struggling to heat their homes. They always must be a priority and be helped. I hope that the Scottish Government and I know that the Scottish Government are taking all that on board as much as we can to keep people comfortable in their homes. Indeed, to have homes is so important. I thank Age Scotland for everything that it has done over the past eight decades. It is just too much to mention how many people it has comforted and supported. I wish them a happy birthday and a long way to continue. Thank you to Kenneth Gibson for securing the debate this afternoon. I would like to echo the congratulations and thanks for all the hard work of Age Scotland and for our current staff over the past 80 years. I thank you to Adam at Age Scotland for the briefing ahead of this debate. Poverty can affect people at all stages of life. 15 per cent of pensioners live in relative poverty. One in 10 live in persistent poverty. Across the country, there are fluctuating factors raising the chance of living in poverty. We must do what we can to support those in lighter life to prevent slips into poverty and to best support those who find themselves in that position and to do so with dignity and respect. The pandemic highlighted the loneliness epidemic, with more than 100,000 older people feeling lonely all or most of the time. That is exacerbated by perceptions of crime and lack of transport push people into staying at home. For some, that means not speaking to another person for long stretches of time. We can help to address that by ensuring that reliable public transport takes people where they want and need, when they want and need. Rural and island public transport services are particularly in need of such attention and it would benefit all ages, but especially older people, to reach public services as well as leading an active social life. Age Scotland supports over 400 community groups across the country and improvements in rural and island public transport would ensure greater opportunity to attend such groups. We cannot forget that, as aspects of everyday life increasingly move online, almost one in five over sixties in Scotland do not use the internet. That is exacerbated in rural and island areas where digital connectivity continues to be challenging in some places. We still need phone lines and in-person appointments to ensure that everyone is still able to make a medical appointment or pay their bills. Commitments to connect homes to high-speed broadband must be fulfilled to ensure that no one is left behind without communication. At the meeting of the cross-party group on poverty earlier today, of which I am a deputy convener, many of those issues were raised by participants, excessive heating costs, transport, isolation and stigma around poverty. Like Kenny Gibson, I would like to take this opportunity to talk about pension credit. Its take-ups have been historically low and it is estimated that 123,000 eligible households in Scotland are not claiming the payment. If you have a low income and even if you have modest savings, pension credit can top up your income. Receiving pension credit can also entitle you to other financial support and assistance with other costs, including those related to housing, energy and health. Age Scotland's helpline is on hand for anyone seeking further information about that. Before I conclude, the final set of figures that I would like to raise today is that two thirds of over 50s say that they do not feel valued by society, and 56 per cent stated that they feel that life is getting worse for older people, both increases on previous responses. Older people make important contributions to society, that intergenerational connection is so vital in communities and the workplace, and any narrative, to the contrary, needs to be reversed. To conclude, Age Scotland is not only a good resource for older people, but also a friend who is ready to provide support. From income maximisation to legal issues, the Age Scotland helpline and friendship line are available throughout the week. We should support their endeavours to provide opportunities for everyone to ensure that later life truly comprises the golden years. I am delighted to contribute to today's motion marking the 80th anniversary of Age Scotland work supporting older people. I welcome the motion brought forward by Kenneth Gibson, from childhood to adulthood, our circle shrinks considerably. This is particularly the case for older people as they witness lifetimes come to a close. That must be a lonely feeling, losing a friendship or a relationship if you once thought you would outlive you. Currently, more than 100,000 older people feel lonely all or most of the time in Scotland. That is equivalent to one person in every street. That isolation leaves our older people in a vulnerable position. All too often, with no-one to look out for them, fraudulent criminals will target and exploit that elderly. That is why Age Scotland's work is so important. In 2020, Age Scotland introduced a friendship helpline, which has had an immense impact on users. One said, It makes my day. It makes my week. I've been very depressed and it's nice to hear another voice. The family don't phone and your friends do pass away. It can be lonely. I want to thank all those selfless volunteers who kindly donate their time to help older people feel a little less lonely. This year, I got to witness first-hand the way Age Scotland advocates for local community groups. The Milan Day Centre approached me for help as the centre is under review for closure. The centre provides a lifeline for ethnic minority older people where they can get together, meet people who speak the same language and share their culture. However, ethnic minority older people in Scotland continue to face barriers and discrimination in accessing the services and facilities that they need. When it comes to making cuts, ethnic minority older people seem to be a target as a service provider now know that they don't have a voice and are very small in number. It is incredibly disheartening that Scotland is, in many respects, failing our most vulnerable older people from ethnic minority communities. They have contributed so much to our social, economic and cultural fabric, but when they grow old and need to look after them, they are often made to feel like an afterthought or worse yet disregarded. However, the ethnic minority community in East Dunbartonshire is lucky to have Age Scotland fighting in their corner to keep the service open. However, the owner should not lie with Age Scotland alone. The Scottish Government must bear in mind that one-size-fits-all approach to services provisions do not work and that fair funding for local authorities is needed to ensure that fit-for-purpose services are available. In conclusion, I am honoured to have had the opportunity to reflect on the important work of Age Scotland on its 80th anniversary. By supporting Age Scotland and better yet supporting the expansion of service provisions for older people, we can ensure that older people can live comfortably, maintain their independence and receive the care that they need. They have made invaluable contributions to society throughout their lifetime and it is important that society gives back. As ethnic minority communities make up a growing share of our older people, it is important that services provisions reflect that. I saw that first-hand with Millan Day care centre in my region and that is why I am acting as a voice for them today in the Scottish Parliament. I want to thank Age Scotland for standing up for ethnic minority communities and Scotland's older people. I thank Kenny Gibson for bringing this motion before us because without question it is right that the long-standing work of Age Scotland is marked in Scotland's Parliament. For almost two decades, I organised the GMB union's retired member section in Scotland. It was a huge privilege to work with and to learn so much from those giants of the labour movement, people like Enoch Humphreys, the former FBU and STUC president, Sammy Barr, a leader of the UCS working, Betty Warden, Aileen Burr, Dorothy Bain, Georgie Cadw, all principled women who spent their entire lives campaigning for equality, for peace and justice, Boilermakers like Hugh Boyd and Tommy Douglas who led the workers who built the Grangemouth oil refinery back in the late 60s, leading them through a bitter strike in 1969 and from all of them there was always a clear message. The treatment of our older citizens is a test of our values as a society and they all held to the unswerving principle that human dignity comes before private profit and that the basic state pension is a right, not a handout because make no mistake, pensioner poverty and pensioner inequality is not an accident of nature, it is a political choice. Look at the state pension system for all the talk in the last week of cuts to national insurance contributions, the national insurance upper earnings limit has been frozen once again, which in simple terms means that the rich do not pay their way and that very same elite group, the richest, the 10% at the top also scoop up 58% of all tax relief on private pensions and they will now get their hands on even more with the abolition of the cap on the lifetime allowance. So what we are witnessing is a redistribution of wealth but it is a redistribution of wealth going in precisely the wrong direction. Just last week Prospect the Union reported that the gender pension gap between women and men stands at 37.9%. That's nearly two and a half times greater than the gender pay gap. Of course the pension gap is fuelled by the pay gap but it is made worse because women are much more likely to have taken breaks in employment or to have worked part time to look after family and so forfeited their pension rights and it is now compounded by the disproportionate exclusion of women from pension or to enrolment. The requirement that you have to earn a minimum of £10,000 a year in a single job role locks three million working women out of an occupational pension scheme and let's not forget the waspy women victims of the injustice of financial loss of the robbery of the years of retirement that they thought that they had and of the gross maladministration of those responsible. As aged Scotland reminders over a third of pensioners who qualify for the pension credit fail to claim it and we know that many of those who do not claim are the oldest pensioners. We know that the oldest pensioners happen to be the poorest pensioners that they are less likely to have an occupational pension that they are more likely to have additional outgoings due to the poorer health which comes with age and we know as well that because they are more likely to be women they are much less likely to receive the full basic state pension and so tonight we pay testimony to age concern for its leadership in ensuring that our older citizens get the best deal out of the current pensions and welfare system but our goal must be to work with them to fundamentally change the current pensions and welfare system that is our responsibility to lift today's pensioners above the hardship of the present to see a vision of a better world that is the very least that we can do to repay the debt that we owe them. Thank you Mr Leonard I now call Emma Roddick to respond to the debate minister around seven minutes. I thank Kenny Gibson for bringing this important debate to the chamber today. It was a very comprehensive motion that I think managed to get across just how much work is going on within Age Scotland and I know that that is work that he places great importance on himself. Conversely I am sorry to hear of Christine Graham's back pain but I will provide my reassurance that she's certainly here in spirit and I can still hear her previous lectures on this subject loud and clear. As the minister with responsibility for older people's equality I have the pleasure of engaging frequently with Age Scotland and I know just how much work they do not only to support older people across Scotland but to communicate to government how we can do better by them. It was a pleasure to meet Catherine Crawford for the first time just last week at the Age Scotland offices and as Colin Smyth had mentioned she has a fantastic enthusiastic appointment and I look forward to building a strong relationship with her in her new role. Age Scotland is of course a committed member of the older people's strategic action forum which I have the privilege of chairing and of course they contribute the information collected in their big survey which I recently got to read. The findings tell us unsurprisingly that more and more older people are feeling financially squeezed. This is expected to worsen in the next year and of course pensions are not something that the Scottish Government has control over but we do support Age Scotland's efforts in encouraging people to claim pension credit which we know still goes unclaimed for far too many who may well be struggling with money and we are incredibly concerned about the wider cost of living crisis and specifically how it impacts older people. In our strategic action framework, Affair Scotland for older people, ensuring financial security is identified as a priority area. We support older people's organisations and age equality projects with over £2.2 million from the equality and human rights fund currently and our new £50 winter heating payments supported £400,000 low-income households last winter including those in receipt of pension credit. Age Scotland of course received £205,000 as part of our £971,000 emergency winter funding package for tackling social isolation and loneliness. I was glad to hear Mr Gibson mention our social isolation and loneliness fund. Over the last few months I have been really excited to meet with many recipients of that fund including the beef community development trust. I was almost as impressed with their cupcakes as I was with their helpline and it was just wonderful to hear how people that they have previously supported the services meant so much to them that they are now contributing and volunteering trying to give back and return that support and friendliness that they themselves received. That echoes what I saw in Perth, Inverness, Invercip, Fife and elsewhere. A little investment in the community sparks so much volunteering and has impacts far beyond the direct support services. Volunteers tell me that taking part in those groups gives them a reason to go outside and befrienders often look forward to their calls with their clients just as much as the clients do. Those sound like natural connections and for many they are, but we know that others are excluded or face extra difficulties in engaging with their communities without this extra help. The funding has been used in a massive variety of ways. Paying for sports groups, gardening, transport, as Beatrice Wishart mentioned, is a particular concern for rural and island areas and for groups supporting people who struggle to mobilise independently. There are many wonderful examples of intergenerational working, which she mentioned as being incredibly important. We know that older people make a large and positive contribution to communities and that there is great value in bringing generations together. I am yet to engage with a group that does intergenerational work where both young people and old people involved were not enthusiastically and genuinely emotionally telling me how brilliant the concept is and that it makes such a difference to their lives. I know and I have seen the difference that that funding has made and I look forward to continuing to learn and share best practice through our social isolation and loneliness action group and by encouraging connections between those groups who can share with each other what has worked well and what has not. The action group is, of course, responsible for driving forward wider actions in our delivery plan to tackle social isolation and loneliness, which we have, importantly, recognised as a public health issue. Data tells us that disabled people, young people, those on low incomes and people over 75, are the group's most at risk of social isolation and loneliness. The cost crisis is only making that worse and causing more isolation for people as they are unable to use funds to use transport. We recognise that and that is why we are focusing specific actions on supporting older people. We just earlier had a debate about the 16 days of activism against gender-based violence and I met with Age Scotland's ethnic minority older people's forum just last week discussing the particular barriers and difficulties that they face. Older people are not a homogenous group, they are diverse, experienced and highly valued members of society and culture, but we know that age, along with gender, race, disability and other protected characteristics, can result in different, unequal experiences and access to services and result in discrimination. The Scottish Government is committed to tackling that, but we cannot do that without making use of the crucial lived experience. Age Scotland is doing wonderful things in drawing attention to those issues and giving people a voice to come to us and tell us what needs to change. I am Gosel. Minister, do you believe that more has to be done with ethnic minorities and older people? Will the minister meet me in relation to the millen group on East Dunbartonshire that is closing and Age Scotland is really voicing that and helping with the fact that we need to tailor some approach on services because of the cultural backgrounds and obviously the language as well? Minister, I can give you the time back. The member raises points that were echoed in the meeting last week, which won't be a surprise term. I am more than happy to continue to discuss those matters and certainly the issue of community groups closing. I know that something that can make particularly marginalised groups feel that they don't have power and they don't have agency and that's something that we do want people to be able to feel and to be able to take action within their own communities. I think that an important thing that Age Scotland wanted to get across during the forum meeting last week was that the term hard to reach, which has been applied to ethnic minority older people, is a bit of a cop-out. We do know where those people are, we do know how to reach them and certainly they are in a forum at Age Scotland regularly, so if any politicians need to hear exactly what people are going through and what issues are high on their agenda that is the place to go. I'll just say thanks again to Kenny Gibson for championing this and, as the Minister for Older People, I will continue to welcome his scrutiny and his support for measures that the Scottish Government is putting in place to support older people's equality. Thank you. Thank you very much Minister. That concludes the debate and I close this meeting upon it.