 Go in life. Go in live my friend. Here we are. I think we're almost live and we are live on the metal voice a returning guest Sean Kelly guitarist author Right author There it is don't call it hair metal. What was the rest of it? Art in the excess of 80s rock. Yeah, that's the new book. Okay, so so let's just say I got I got my Hipporators of my circus magazines. I got my hair metal albums here My hairspray extra extra strong hold Right on that's where we need it anymore But whatever you do don't call it a hair metal You can call it whatever you want as long as you call it rock and roll. That's my whole point Yeah, I got that and you know God bless you for writing this book because there's a channel here in Canada That plays music that they call hair metal and they play Ronnie James the or rainbow in the dark They play Ted Nugent's scream dream They play sabotage which in my day would never been considered hair metal in a million years So it's like it's like all the 80s got lumped under this banner And you take the time to pick this apart. There's like a history lesson almost this book and say hey guys Let's not put this all under one umbrella So thank you for I thought I was crazy, but thank you for teaching I guess the Millennials and maybe other people that think the 80s was nothing but hairspray and bright clothes. So Well, thank you. Yeah, my pleasure. I uh, you know, like that really was the whole point of writing the book right it was it was at this pejorative term has come to kind of represent Uh, a whitewashed version of everything that happened there when really there was incredible artistic diversity and sonic evolution and all sorts of amazing things happened in the 80s And really at the time we just called it rock and roll because it was the next extension of the The rock and roll lineage of the 50s 60s and 70s I think the biggest question here is I was trying to we at me and Alan were talking about this When was the first time the word or the phrase hair metal was used? I'm sure somebody penned it in some magazine somewhere You know, the first time I became aware of it. I believe was on a compilation album I was working on a tower records around 1995 1996 And uh, and I saw you know, one of those compilation CDs like you know hair metal, you know I think so I I think I I had heard the term hair band as well around that time But really, you know, it came after the fact it came with the advent of grunge Uh, and and it came to me. It was just a term for lazy journalists, you know to kind of Jump on a train of what was hot and new and kind of dismiss the old, you know what I mean Yeah, you know, we had a poser was poser actually poser. Sorry Alan poser That came out very quickly. That was probably the end of the 80s because yeah, I know I was using that back at 85 Yeah, and there was there was glam metal. There was pop metal. I'd heard all those things But the actually to actually put the hair before the music the image before the music that came after the fact Yep, and you know the metal community. It's funny. Like you're a little bit younger than Jim and I But you know reading about you being next to the lake That's something I can completely relate to. I remember being next to my country place and next to the lake and hearing rainbow Rodney james deals rainbow in the dark for the first time or the Pyramania album death leopard that played all summer long on the radio And and this is you know part of the metal community, right? It's it's we've all got the life experiences We all shared these experiences back in the 80s and we got friends from Romania who lived the same thing that we lived This is a scatter on you know, so Yeah, it was that music, you know really was and this is where image does come into play and and marketing and magazines and video it really was for those of us had a more bucolic kind of existence, you know On the country or the woods or you know It was it was a gateway into either the sunset strip or in the case of sabotage into the hall of the mountain king You know, I mean like or a deal, you know rainbows in the dark It was a way to journey and you know the one thing I'll say about the image was it helped us kind of dream in Technicolor, you know what I mean like it was it was pointy guitars and and pyrotechnics and Larger than life and the music Suited that you know, it was coming out to me like that that that sound was really about trying to capture the arena rock experience of the 70s How does it feel to be in a big arena when your town doesn't have a big arena? While you throw on a rat record and you get a pretty good feeling what it sounds like in the la forum Reverberate, you know powerful loud You know, it's interesting how technology was the wave So you had mtv and demographics too. So all us guys were kind of like, you know teenagers Right, then you had mtv the technology of mtv music videos and then this whole new genre that was emerging And suddenly we're not only using our ears anymore. Now we're using our eyes a gallon was saying so or you were saying And and now this is a huge impact and those bands that we heard from 80 to 90 on mtv or watched it or much music in our case That left such an imprint in for generations, right now, you know, we're that It's technology Yeah, and and and the technology it's you can't overstate how important wasn't the overall sound because what was happening was it was the dawn of digital technology sampling electronic drums Being able to create these larger than life sounds which actually In the book I talked with uh engineer and producer extraordinary mike frazier about this, you know all of a sudden You have to try and figure out how to fit all these guitars and vocals and keyboards around these massive snare drum sounds like All of a sudden the snare drum becomes it's so important because you have, you know This technology where you can sample sounds and make them bigger and more reverberant digital delays and echoes all these things That used to happen in an analog world or now and it happened with digital parameters and uh We're chasing uh, you know new sounds. It was exciting but You know the a lot of the tones that we've come to associate with the best of classic rock We're starting to get obscured right so you can certainly make arguments that have uh, you know preferences to to different types of tones Like, you know, yeah, if you listen to the the sounds on a cinderella record They're a little different than a lead zeppelin or an aerosmith record even if they're coming from the same bass at all blues bass You know, we had tracy guns on it a couple of months ago He used we asked him what's what's hair metal to you? And he said it's really bad clothes hair sticking up all over the place and hot chicks You agree with that Well, you know what? I it's funny. I don't to me. I don't find it bad I just finished rock of ages at the toronto production of rock of ages And I couldn't wait to get into my leather pants and spiky leather jacket My hair is pretty big as it is already but I made it a little bigger and I loved it because to me It was a way, you know, I heard I heard a great great expression. You show people how to listen sometimes, right? So like, you know, yeah, they were preening around like peacocks But I think the music kind of fit that, you know, it was uh, it fell in line with the image. Um Yeah, but it certainly was a fun era. It wasn't We didn't have many bob dillon's coming out in the 80s. You know, it wasn't necessarily the height of lyrical aspiration, but But It was fun and and it did speak to, you know, listen 2d fruity. Oh rudia. What boppa luba what bamboo? I mean, that's not exactly, uh Shakespeare either, right, but it gets a point across You know, you know, we're talking about And another factor we'll talk about the business side of things. So you're looking at the 80s You have that we talked about mtv the demographics The business was selling records. This is like the peak of album sales and with album sales You know, if if the deaf leopard comes out, they break it big. Oh, wait a second We need 10 other little clone deaf leopards out there So now we've saturated the market with a bunch of two tiers and three tier deaf leopards. So At that point, I guess saturate it's just like any business model, right? Something successful It gets cloned and it gets saturated You want to talk about that? Absolutely. And you know, I uh, I spoke with my my dear friend the late great john reagan about this and john was coming out of the 60s, right john was A musician in the 60s and the 70s from peter frampton Sneaking still so many great artists And then in the 80s started working with ace fraily as he moved into a more commercial heart rock sound and fraily's comment But he kind of mentioned that he said like in the 60s and 70s The people who ran the companies were music men herb alper Jerry moss The urigan brothers These were people who came at it with a passion for music and turned it into a business What happened was in the 80s you start to see the conglomeration of record companies These these these companies that were music companies now become corporate entities. They are responsible to shareholders They have to deliver a quarterly, you know Returns and in order to do that just like you said you see what's successful And you stick with it. So that meant hey This producer's having a hit Let's get him to produce everything and he's bringing with him a stable of session musicians who will enhance the record And make things come on under budget great We'll use them and by the way that clothing designer That they did a great job on the outfits for this band Let's use them too And you start chasing yourself and you get into this period of refinement by the late 80s early 90s Where it did all start to sound the same all of a sudden Hey, you have bean counters running the the record companies instead of music men. Yeah, people are saying I think we need another w-band winger white lion warren, you know, white There's not enough w's When we're looking through we need a w right there That's it right and and you get this sameness and and it's too bad because for every band that that was kind of a product of that late 80s early 90s era there are still talented people who had dreams and ambitions and and ability They just kind of had to go along with the the machine was moving right and this is what the Method of conveyance for their art was looking like at the time It was more corporate and more refined and ultimately suffered from that sameness More of the same in the bottom fell out. I think Tracy guns asked in what year he thought he thought it got kind of really phased out He said 89. I was surprised it was the latest that But he said that's what it kind of got ridiculous with the you know Like jimmy said the third and fourth tier either stripers or warrants of the world But it's funny for me like I would go a little later because man all of a sudden yet You had some amazing sounding records. The thing is the records actually started to sound really good Using to that firehouse record. It's a it's a wonderful sounding record You had skid row coming out was slave to the grind which was like this really raw aggressive Precursor like what we come to see later was I don't know or come to know later with pantera and bands like that Like it was kind of there was some really and you know guns was still going They were the biggest band in the world at the time. There were still things happening but Yeah, I guess around that time is when you started seeing more and more bands getting signed And with you know, similar marketing treatments will say, yeah You know, I'll also say this and I've always said this That that dynamic between the suits and the band right That sort of clash created probably the greatest music, you know in the 80s Because the songs I wouldn't say all the songs but the majority of the hits that we go and hear of our favorite bands Are usually the ones where they were sort of either a corporate or they were pushed into a corner Hey, we got three minutes left on the album. Let's crank out a song or the company the company wants another hit another video Those are the songs. So that dynamic Is what created, you know, great hooks and memorable, you know music Jimmy, it's really easy to to dish on the gatekeepers or the suits, right? Like it's really easy to make them the bad guys But listen, there would be no or arguably there would be no american pop metal Resurgence in 1983 If it weren't for spencer proffer the producer having a concept of participatory rock and saying I know if I can find a band to sing this old slade song I can take this to the people and he had the idea of doing this blowing up version of that song That comes from the suit, right? If you didn't have john collodner in there kicking aerosmith's ass He wouldn't have had their resurgence with the Permanent vacation record. He was a song guy. He heard the song He could see white snake He could see the star quality in david coverdale and realized that what he was doing At the moment with his english band wasn't going to translate into an american FM radio audience But with some tweaks like he fought and had to convince david geppin to go in and buy the rights to like, you know Crying in the rain and and here I go again. Like who would have heard that like a hobo. I was born to walk along They're drifters not hobo. You gotta tweak that. Yeah Like but but those tweaks are pretty fascinating, right? So and they and these were people outside of the musician It's it listen. I'm a musician too when I work with a producer. I might not agree in the moment I I'm creating something. I'm feeling something But you have to trust sometimes these outside people just have an ear. They have a gift And they understand what you're ultimately trying to do to further your ability to make more Right and to fall up to that that's the failure of people say well, where are the hits today? Where are the big songs? it's That was a good segue, wasn't it? He's got the phone The big hits, you know were a result. Well, I saw now lost my train of thought My sister bad my sister had these guys like Kaladner would not release an album until they had the four Four songs, you know that they told erosmith. I need four out of you guys when it came to pump or So I think that's where's your point you were you're going with? No, no my my point was that these big songs today's failure is Is sort of become we become the artists have become so isolated that they're not listening to anyone else They're doing whatever they want therefore that that that what you were describing Sean was that outside ear that third party is not Who used to sort of push them into this more of a larger picture They're not getting that anymore Bands have become so isolated. They're just playing what they want And that doesn't usually translate Into those big hits and those big songs. You guys would do you follow what i'm saying? I'm saying that. Yeah. Yeah, we got it Okay, all right Well, you know, what it just took me 10 minutes to rethink what else I was saying What what did steven tyler say? It's like this guy would come in and kill my children like my songs my art, right? but He had a job to do right and that's my point And and that's today's failure. That's what i'm trying to say. That's today's failure Is not being able to listen to somebody else help you Make that big hook or that big melody Well, you know, it's funny like I don't know it's either not being able to listen or there's just too many people in a room Like all of a sudden there's 14 people writing a song these days on a pop song. I mean I mean Today, it's so weird the way that information is disseminated and consumed like I mean I I don't even know if that that model could ever work again. You know, I will say this so I I do miss the idea of the focused efforts of a team of people marketing radio promotion And artists all working together, you know, because there were so many talents beyond the talent that was Recording the record making the music that went into bringing these things to market, you know the creativity I was just looking at You know, I played I played with conie hatch. I was watching looking at an article That talked about the artwork of that first conie hatch record. Oh, yeah Let's bring it. It's brilliant. It's brilliant Yeah, out of hand I could have done without but the first one and even friction is is quite good The color scheme on out of hand you give us like a history lesson and again, he's like, hey, it was all rock and roll There's a natural progression of what happened in the 80s Um, but you know when you think of the term hair metal It's for me. It's it's a west coast thing. It's a sunset strip thing started with Probably shouted the devil with molly crew and everybody wanted to get that kind of look with the hair and everything But I mean you you take the time to go and talk about other groups and other parts of the country Including, you know, a few a few bands. What are you? You know, you mentioned kickaxe and helix here in canada So it's I mean it's a well-rounded book and hats off for doing that. Thank you. Thank you very much So I guess we have to say that it's a chronological Build-up, right? It starts in the I guess the what the 60s, I guess Well 60s all the way through to the end of the 80s, correct? Yeah, I kind of do a really You know basic overview of rock and roll and distorted guitars and and kind of really where where the meat of it comes in It's the kind of 78 through to like 91 Where we're that that's where I kind of deep dive and and I do take a look at some of the, you know The new york dolls the aero smiths the you know the kiss kisses, you know all those bands that kind of Inspired the bands of the 80s to to do what they did and I mean as I'm reading the book it's like Oh, you mentioned that one. He mentioned that one. He's got blue murder I could I can't even think of a band that you did not mention throughout the book. Maybe junkyard. Maybe maybe it's in there Maybe I missed it, but maybe Fox so many bands from that. I got Britney Fox in there. I think oh, you do. Okay, you sure But you know who I did you know who I didn't mention Who that I I've been obsessed dirty looks I've been listening to dirty looks and a band that we played with on The monster the rock crews Disney after dark DAD I was like these guys are brilliant I remember seeing the record but for some reason, you know, I had a fixed budget as a kid, right? Like you can't buy everything and and and those bands weren't making on the radio But man brilliant bands like I mean I I'd love to go back if there's a revision, you know Or a second edition. I'd love to go back and add a few more. Okay. Let's go back to the hip raiders Yeah, let's go travel in time a bit September 1983 All right to me. It was deaf leopard versus iron maiden these new wave of British heavy metal titans And that's what the big story was Look at this. You had The blueprint of Bon Jovi, which is Aldo Nova from Montreal, right? Yeah You have deaf leopard who in my opinion Were the catalyst for all the metal the mainstream big Sound big reverb that snare drum you're talking about. I don't even think on pyromania Rick Allen actually played on it I mean you might have crashed a couple of cymbals, but overall mudline drove them up the wall So he drove them so much up the wall that Pete Willis quit And everybody was an alcoholic after that session. I mean Thoughts on deaf leopard being the catalyst to it all 1985 I think they're a big catalyst But I think you have to I dug a little deeper on that in the book and really because mud's coming out of you know Foreigner right all of a sudden he's working with foreigner on foreigner for and Foreigner talking to Mike Fraser. I found out that Lover boy and foreigner were kind of chasing each other They were chasing each other for the sound and I think that the the lover boys and the foreigners are really the first kind of Radio presence of what would come to be known as commercial ladies hard rock Or hair metal if you want to use that term or arena rock right arena rock and I don't by the way People think I'm mortally offended by the term hair metal. I actually don't care what you call it You got to put the yogurt in the grocery store somewhere. I don't care what you're classifying as I'm just saying that it's actually rock and roll in the term stupid. But anyway, I digress Uh But but yeah, so I think I think it does and then I think what you have is iron maiden Or sorry a deaf leopard taking that british, you know the influences from new wave british heavy metal But more so even from the the thin lizzies and maybe the judas priests a twin guitar attack They're kind of marrying it to this rounded off Nicely compressed radio friendly sound with burgeoning technology and most importantly the ears and and talent of mutt lang as a producer because what mutts genius is as a producer is He hears the song, but he also insists on the talents of the band being focused He knows what the band can do he inserts himself in but he makes the band contribute The band has to do the performances. He's gonna pull it out to you. It takes time But he and he has this boundless enthusiasm to be able to spend nine months But still listen like a 16 year old kid while also being a musical genius. I mean That's a pretty great combination for a producer Yeah, I mean just just is the scography that he's produced. I mean, you know back in black and I went to hell and for the next one ready for 1984 Hit it Eddie Van Halen or Randy Rhodes. That was always the competition, right? Even after he passed away, right two years after 1984 So it was always the big thing Eddie Van Halen or Randy Rhodes Even when he was alive that that sort of that that big What do you want to call it? What's the right word there? Rivalry was still there. There it is Yeah, it was in this magazine. Oh exclusive interviews with all these guys Yeah, man, it's beautiful beautiful Well, you know, you got two California kids from the suburbs, right? You got you got you got Rhodes sort of Burbank I think or and then you got you know, Eddie out of Pasadena and they're both kind of have their eyes on You know the Hollywood prize, right? So they're out there playing both brilliant guitar players You know when you when you're dealing with talent at that level it comes down to preference, right? I mean they both had a classical influence to a degree Randy certainly Showed that more in his composition side his guitar playing side but you know at the end of the day I don't think Eddie was playing any Randy Rhodes licks But Randy was starting to play Eddie Van Halen licks in his solos if you listen to the live solos He was adapting that and and and it's always first to market, right? Eddie was first to market on a grand scale And and and once that happened Randy's teaching guitar kids are coming and saying hey, man I want to learn that I want to learn on fire by Van Halen. It's like, okay And and he sees that happening and Randy even setting guitar interviews like it kills me that I play Eddie licks But I do do it because the kids want to hear it, right? So and I know they I know they were competitive But I'm sure there was a mutual respect there too, you know But both had the hair right both had the hair Well, which would kind of transition to what Alan was saying everybody was lumped at the hair metal Well, you know over time they they were they were good-looking guys coming out of the 70s And remember you had Rodney Bingenheimer's club and in LA which was very influenced by English glam In LA a couple of things were happening bands like Judas Priest and scorpions were starting to make their way into the clubs and And appear in festivals like day in the green and and show up in clubs And you also had the hangover of the bowies the t-rexes and the mat the hoopals You know from the Rodney Bingenheimer scene. So those things are coming together, right? Heavy guitars glam rock and also The american hard rock that was coming underneath with new jint narrow smith You put that together and it kind of makes that 80s pop metal stew Especially when you add in the aor influence of the bands like foreigner lover boy journey 1984 might as well jump There you go. That was that was another big one. That was another big moment where Move over. Well, what was it move over again? Here comes Eddie on keyboards Yeah Might as well jump You know, that was massive. That was huge. That was a big thing Decades ago I went to see the movie greece in the theater with my parents and they're they're watching greece and Hey, we're gonna watch that again. All right. Why are they enjoying this movie so much? Well, that was their their childhood right growing up in the 60s and the late 50s So talk to me about rock of ages from that's our grease as far as I'm concerned that talks about our era And our songs. What do you see from the crowd when you perform that? joy It's just a pure joyful experience and it's fun and it it's it's it's not Obviously, we're like we're not talking Shakespeare here, but really But really like it's a wonderful. It's a wonderful narrative funny Lighthearted, but the production that we had here in Toronto that more entertainment put on It was an arena rock spectacle. Like we had the pyro We had the the lasers. We had the arena rig myself and the other guitar player gino del sole Every night we're like, he's from Sudbury. I'm from North Bay. It's like man We're a couple of kids from Ontario, but we were in Judas Priest tonight, you know We're up on top of the rig, you know doing our moves with our pointy guitars. It was absolutely incredible and And and the quality of the acting and the dancing like I can't say enough I love musical theater my first experience with with d snider and the rock and roll christmas tale Which we did at in the same building, but we did that one in the theater upstairs This one at the winter garden. This was in the elegant but Incredible man, and I couldn't I think your analogy is perfect It it brings us back to that simpler time on the sunset strip the Reagan era, right? Like I mean it was Everything's possible. We're all making tons of dough nothing but a good time, but you know what? Every party ends Yeah, every party ends. That's for heck even you deal was teasing this hair in 1985 It's always a mystery Yeah, no mystery there. He was trying to sell some more records. You know, we're all trying. I don't play him Watts molly crew docking ozzy wait zizi top What the hell are they doing in a music magazine like this an aerosmith, of course hard rockin But there's rat You know these guys were on top of the world all these guys on this, you know was was big You know somewhere between alice cooper I Kiss Sorry, it was the dominant music of the youth. It was it was the it was the It happened really the us festival in 83 that day during heavy metal day kind of overtook all the other days That was the start of hard rocks commercial dominance, right? Really if you if you need a moment that that moment to find it Where you have, you know, van halen who who managed to Transfer out of the 70s and and to me they always ran On a parallel path. They were never followers or imitated van halen was just van halen being the conquering Vikings. They always were But but they said hey, it's okay to have keyboards in your music in 1984, right? You could be a hard rock band and you could have keyboards So that's kind of like they started that little trend happening And you start to put in keyboards in their music and our maiden started putting keyboards And radio wanted a little more keyboards It's something a lot more softer to appeal to a larger audience and and the suits were saying we need sales Look, look at the numbers. It's got it going up here. It was undeniable You know, I think you know it's funny because eddie faced a lot of contention there Like it roth and templeman didn't really want him doing too much keyboard stuff They wanted him to be the well, I shouldn't say ted templeman. I think ted was more into it It was David Roth was like yeah, he's like no man. You're a guitar hero enough of the keyboards But eddie wanted had the impetus to do that so much. He went and built his own studio, right? Like no Pretty amazing So let's uh, let's get to the the book. I mean, it's a huge success. I hope wish you all the best with that But let's talk a little bit about kony hatch and this this new album in august 11th. What's going on there? I'm so excited man. Uh, you know, I loved kony hatch. I'm a big fan So obviously being a part of the band is pretty surreal But to be on an actual record with those guys and part of their their first new music in so many years What a thrill, you know, it's uh Yeah, I'm very proud. The record is uh, it's called postcard from germany Uh recorded live at the heat festival in 2018 We and you know what man? We had it was a good night to be hit and record the band was hot The crowd was with us and it's all captured on that record beautifully mixed by vik florensia And the two new songs first single it's about a girl Is is doing real well for us and and you know and the second one happens on the other side Amazing amazing handy current track. You've got that kind of that yin yang, you know The two different spices there that makes the kony hatch vocal thing and uh, yeah, I'm I'm so thrilled to be Part of it and I'm really excited for people to hear it. There's there's two Live tracks that are available now streaming monkey bars and devil's deck live that you can hear on spotify But the rest of the record, I think I think fans are gonna love it. European fans. There's a lot of friction stuff on there and uh Yeah, I'm I'm I'm very pumped about it august 11th on uh explorer one and and cleopatra music We spoke to andy during the pandemic We got to interview you guys when you were preparing for that show in toronto And they mentioned we talked about the album four and they said it was a little bit of a non starter because They released it. They weren't gonna tour behind it The record company didn't know how to promote it because there was not going to be any follow-up to it What's what makes this album different and what why is it coming out now? Well, I mean the four records a fantastic record and it's represented on the live record too I think I I mean by virtue of it being A live record and you know kind of around the 40th anniversary of the band. It's a celebration Of where the band's at now and they know like I'm really honored to be playing the parts of the great steve shell ski the big big influence on me fantastic musician guitar player But yeah, like I mean, I think you know, we just got back from sweden rock where we play at sweden rock festival And you could see there's a lot of love for coney hats there We're heading over to germany to play the indoor summer festival So it's an exciting time where uh, the band started to realize back in the day They didn't realize how popular they were over there And and so, you know, we had a pretty long lineup of fans wanting to get things signed and uh, I think that this record symbolizes the celebration of the past But those two new tracks point to what I think could be a very exciting future, you know, I'm a fan too. So When they call me they want to go in the studio and make a new record. I'll be the first one there. I'll bring the coffee You're jumping from lee arin to coney hatch to lee arin to coney hatch to you know, two other projects that you're working on Yeah, man. So you got more two days with lee arin Yeah, I'm heading out tomorrow morning 4 30 in the morning. My car picks me up Take me to the airport and I'll be in vancouver tomorrow night playing in white rock bc We we just played canada day in ottawa We have a touring behind a new record called elevate that came out that's that's doing doing well for us and uh Yeah, once again same thing. I mean, you know lightning struck twice for me Like I get into play with with with lee arin is you know, I'm coming up on 10 years now working with her and I I don't know if I'm supposed to say but there might be something new in the works for next year Maybe that's you could say no one's listening Who's listening? Let's just say that uh lee arin is uh is a constantly creative, uh, uh human being All right, so what else a great interview as well. We love talking to lee arin. She's just a great interview So yeah, I mean, she's you know highly intelligent personable amazing woman. You know, what can you say? Um, uh, there is something fun that I'm working on actually. I just got the first drum track back now I am actually gonna do a new crash kelly record. You're the first guys. I talked to about it new crash kelly record and it's actually gonna be uh A companion To this and I'm gonna I'm gonna have some fun with some tracks that I write about in the book But I'm gonna do them the crash kelly style. So it's it's it's it's it's a lot of fun and Joyful thing talking with a few labels about that right now but you know At this day and age, I have a studio downstairs I I feel so lucky. I can just go down and create and And have opportunities and and friends in the business who offer to put things out for me and contact like I it's it's a very fortunate time in my life right now where I'm getting to celebrate this music that meant so much to me and uh, yeah, I'm just I'm just People say No, no, it's okay. Uh, you also said you also did the soundtrack to the randy roads documentary, correct? I did I did uh, I scored there was a movie that was supposed to come out and actually did come out in a very limited edition in 2000 and I want to say 2012 called randy roads the quiet riot here's ron sobel Ron sobel and you know ron had a beautiful coffee table book and the dvd and I I did score that entire thing And they used a good portion of that in the new documentary that's come out not all of it I'm not on all of it, but but a good a good portion of it. So I had to renegotiate that and um, Yeah, that You know, I the new the new documentary is great. I really love that first movie. It was it had a wonderful sense of continuity We had we had ron sobel on and we talked about it many times and uh, yeah, I have it somewhere back there and uh, Documentary yeah, yeah, I'm very very proud of it. So but you know, I'm a I'm a massive randy roads fan. I uh I recorded a classical guitar album for opening day universal many years ago And I insisted On of all these famous classical pieces that I get a chance to record d by randy roads and they were like Why are we why are we paying copy or why are we getting publishing on that? I said because randy roads Inspired as many people to play classical guitars any of these guys and probably more You know, like he was you know, yeah a real a real acolyte for classical music, you know Is there anything else you want to say about your book? I guess final notes Well, you know what? Yeah, don't call it hair metal art in the excess of 80s rock. It's available everywhere you get books I'm so thrilled to be with ecw press who've done an amazing job getting the book out there It's out people around the world are finding it easily and what more can I ask for a great team? I actually just just Got green lit for a new book with them. Oh another great another one. Yeah, this one's call it hair metal Yeah, I changed my mind call it hair metal forget about it. Call it hair metal. Yeah, I'm dedicating it to michael faul Hey, john great book took me right back to my youth and we have so many similarities I think everybody in the metal community can definitely relate to this book and and the way it's done year by year and Kind of bite-sized snacks instead of a whole mouthful It was just a pleasant read and congratulations again Thank you gentlemen always a pleasure talking with you both All right, man. Have yourself a wonderful day everybody pick up the