 We're going to be focusing on the U.S. Space Force, abolish the U.S. Space Force, and we have some terrific guests lined up, including Congresswoman Maxine Waters, who will be joining us when she can. She's on the floor of the house. They've got some big votes coming up tonight, including another vote in the House on the NDA, $778 billion for the military budget. This is the result of some sort of bipartisan compromise. We don't have all the details yet. Likely we'll have to go back to the Senate, but we'll ask Congresswoman Waters about that when she does join us. We'll be very flexible tonight. Another guest we're excited to have is Professor, author Carl Grossman, an expert on the militarization of space, and also Bruce Gagnon, long-time activist who launched or was a co-founder of the global network against nuclear weapons and nuclear power in space. So all of that coming up. We have a capital calling party after our question and answer period, and we'll be calling our Congress members, urging them to become co-sponsors of the No Militarization in Space Act, which was introduced not too long ago, and Congresswoman Waters is one of the co-sponsors. We will also be contacting writing the White House, specifically Vice President Kamala Harris. She's overseeing a very important space task force to urge her to maintain civilian control over the International Space Station, not to in any way blur the lines between peaceful space exploration and the militarization of space because there is an effort to do that. So first let's go to Medea for some updates. Oh, boy. Well, it's a busy time. In fact, just found out that the vote on the resolution in the Senate to block the $650 million sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia just happened. We got 30 senators on our side, 67 voted in favor of selling those weapons to Saudi Arabia. So we lost that vote, but it's pretty remarkable to get 30 senators to go against a weapons sale, especially when there is a Democratic president who wants those weapons sales to happen. And let's remember that that was, it was focused or sold to Congress as defensive weapons. So many of those senators voted saying that they would not vote for offensive weapons. Of course, there's a fine line between them and we don't want to sell any weapons to the Saudis, but that was their justification. So, and then in other news, we have a new letter on Afghanistan that was just released by Congresswoman Jaya Poll, Sarah Jacobs and Chewie Garcia, that calls for an unfreezing of the funds to avoid a collapse of the banking system and a total catastrophe saying that a humanitarian aid is good but not good enough. And that's good and we will be working on that trying to get as many of our representatives to sign up on that. And speaking of signing up on letters, we have been doing a very heroic job. Yeah, because Congresswoman Waters, I believe, is on the phone. Oh, great. Yeah. Are you there? Yeah, I'm not on the phone. I'm here. Oh, even better. And I'm trying to get my video on. Okay, while you're working on that, I want to do a proper introduction. If I have a minute to do that. So we are right here. Congresswoman Maxine Waters with us. She is the chairwoman of the House Financial Services Committee. Congresswoman Waters represents California's 43rd congressional district, which includes Los Angeles, Englewood, Gardena, parts of Torrance. And she was, has been in Congress, correct me from where I think since 1991, a long time before that she was in the California State Assembly, very outspoken, urging divestment from South Africa over South Africa as apartheid. And she has been recently out front, out in front, calling for more humane policy toward the Haitians who are being deported en masse from the United States. So welcome Congresswoman Waters. Perhaps you'd like to share with us a few of your thoughts about what's going on right now on the floor of the house and your priorities as chair of the chairwoman of the House Financial Services Committee. Thank you so very much for, you know, the kind introduction, and thank you so very much about the issues that you care so much about. So much about Pope Pink is special in that they have courage, the courage of their convictions, and they're willing to take a lot of abuse because of that courage, but they have persevered over a long period of time now, and they have experienced a lot. They have fought on some of the biggest issues, and I want you to know that despite the fact that it has sometimes been very difficult. I am a friend, and Pope Pink has many friends, and I want to thank Marcy Winograd for being a friend, and for being an advocate. And so I responded to the request to be with you this evening, because basically you're interested in HR 5335 the no authorization of Space Act. Now, before I get into that, we're working late this evening, because we have some very important legislation to try and deal with. You know, we have the question of the debt limit. And I think we're going to have a vote in about an hour or so on debt limit to see if we can, you know, solve that issue and do what we have to do to increase the debt limit in order to pay our bills. And so that's very important, you know, we're all on pins and needles about what's happening with build back better over on the Senate side. We have done our work here in the house, and we put together a very, very good bill. And so this was actually Biden's vision about what was possible to give support to our families and to our children. And so it's a great piece of legislation. We don't have full support for it. As a matter of fact, when we first envision this bill, it was a $6 trillion bill. So as you know, there was a lot of wrestling and wrangling and discussion and negotiations, what have you, we could not get the support of two individuals, Democrats on the Senate side mansion. And of course, you know, what was happening with that. We were able to continue to move legislation, but it was reduced tremendously cinema and mansion have not let up basically. And so the bill has been whittled down. And I don't even know if we're at 2 trillion or 2 trillion plus now in the bill, but I focused on housing, because you know that's in my committee as chair of the financial services committee I have HUD, and I started out with $327 billion to attend to the needs of our communities relative to housing. We have homelessness. We have people who work every day and cannot afford the increasing rent. We have people who are paying over 50% of their income for rent, and we have those who are being evicted and on the streets and the problem is off the scale. And so we worked very hard. Our bill got cut back in the negotiations, but we were able to come out of it with $170 billion. And that's in the bill that we sent over to the Senate. And that bill basically covers a number of things. It covers the National Housing Trust Fund that was created when Bonnie Frank was here as chair and I worked with him, and that's to build affordable housing and to support subsidies for those who can build affordable housing and want to do it. In addition to that, we had about $25 billion in there for a combination of the home program and the CDBG program. This is monies that we send to the cities, and they have the flexibility to use that for housing. They can subsidize housing in many different ways. We had a tremendous amount of money in there for public housing. As a matter of fact, I think the biggest amount was in there. Public housing has deteriorated in this country, and people are living in unsafe conditions. And so we have elevators that don't work, trash systems that have been broken for a long time. And of course, many of the buildings in New York in particular last winter didn't have any heat. And so I think we ended up with about $60 billion in order to deal with the thousands upon thousands of public housing units in this country. And in addition to that, you know, we have about $10 billion in the bill for this new generation, first generation would be homeowners that cannot save up enough money for a down payment. But they're working every day, some of them in the gig economy with two and three jobs, they can afford to pay a mortgage, but saving the money for down payment has been very hard. And so we have some money that $10 billion in the bill to assist the first generation home buyers and on and on and on, but that's the essence of what I was able to do in working with bill back better. And so we're on pins and needles, and we're working every day to try and make sure that we can retain at least that which we have gotten, you know, in the bill and sent over, you know, to the Senate. So we have a lot that's going on here we have the National Defense Bill that's up. We're working late. We're dealing with, you know, many of the activities that have been created to try and deal with voter suppression to try and deal with the fact that our democracy is at stake. And as you listen to the commission that has been appointed by Nancy Pelosi to investigate what took place when our capital was invaded and insurrection took place in this country. And we had a president who not only have to organize it, but is defending it. And we have members on the opposite side of the aisle, many who are lying with of along to the proud boys, the old keepers, the KKK, QAnon, all of these domestic terrorist groups, and many representatives on the opposite side of the aisle, who are defending and who supposed to be patriots, but they are part of this conspiracy that's undermining our democracy. So this is an important time in this country, and we're working hard to try and at least maintain the leadership in the house. And even if there's a tie vote in the Senate that Kamala Harris is there to always break that vote, but with two members of the Democratic Party, Manchin and Sinema, who are not working with us, it is painful. It is very difficult. And we, we're just stunned by that lack of cooperation in the ways that we're trying to make sure that we have a government that's attending to the real needs of the people. So, having said that, but we wake up every day, and we're not going to give up. We are going to continue fighting, and it's in the same spirit in my estimation as, you know, co pink. And so here we are. Thank you so much for being an advocate for the homeless for those who need housing which is as you said it's that we're in a crisis here in this country with so many people, either homeless or on the verge you know, so thank you for fighting for that money in the bill back better bill, you know, it code pink we try to make the connection between the money that is spent now $778 billion in this National Defense Authorization Act for the military, and the money that is not spent here at home to invest in human So, the more you can fight for that and a challenge this never ending military budget, we certainly would appreciate it. I wanted to ask you to, if you could share with us Congresswoman waters why you chose to co sponsor the no militarization of space act. Thank you very much and I think this is important to focus on because as you talk about the military budget. There are those who will find ways to enhance that budget. However, they possibly can. And this no militarization of space act would eliminate the space force within one year of ratification transfer all authorities duties functions missions personnel units facilities and assets to the appropriate armed forces, the problem with the space force. This space force constitute a flagrantly wasteful use of taxpayer dollars US military spending toppled as you said 704 billion dollars in fiscal year 2021, including a staggering 15.5 of this so called space force, the space force also unnecessarily duplicated much of the existing work within the Air Force, including that of space command, thereby creating bureaucratic confusion and further waste and risking the American and allied national security. It was largely perceived as a vanity project from the former president of the United States Donald Trump, and this legislation is necessary. It's necessary because the long standing neutrality of space has fostered a competitive non militarized multinational age of exploration. And by the outer space treaty of 1967, which restricts the placement of weapons of mass destruction in space and banned military maneuvers on celestial bodies. As we continue to address urgent domestic and international priorities, such as battling cove it climate change and growing economic inequality. Our mission must be to support the American people, not spend billions on the militarization of space. Donald Trump, you know, is an ego testicle maniac. And this idea of creating his own space program is something no one in their right mind should be supporting. And the brazenness of his daring to use the power of the presidency to spend this money on something he thinks will make him a stronger or more liked, I don't know what, but his ego is beyond description. And so we must oppose it. And I joined when I was asked to join as a co author, even though you know I'm way over here. In, you know, housing dealing with these domestic issues, etc. But I thought it was important to sign on because I share the philosophy of those who understand that we do not need to continue to use exorbitant amounts of money. Unnecessarily in something that's thought of and dreamed of by, you know, a man that literally is out of his mind. I don't know what else I can say, except to say thank you for giving attention to this. Thank you for talking about peace versus war. Thank you for talking about the unnecessary expenditure on wars that that is not needed or desired. I appreciate you for it. And I stand with you always on these important issues that you work so hard for. Thank you for having me with you this evening. Thank you Congresswoman waters we know that you have to get back out there boats on the floor. And on behalf of code pink and code pink Congress we just want to thank you so much for your leadership on housing for addressing the urgent needs at home and urge you to vote no on the National Rights Authorization Act to join the chorus of those opposing these arms sales like $650 million arms sale to Saudi Arabia and and to unfreeze these assets in Afghanistan so these people don't face starvation whatever. I just want to share a woman waters we will be so appreciative. Well thank you so very much I appreciate you and the work that you do, and the fact that you care so much about the people, and you're willing to stand up and fight for thank you. Thank you. Hey, hey. We are now going to move on to our other guests, Congresswoman waters has votes to cast on the floor of the house. Tonight, it's abolished the space force but before that media was there, an update you wanted to share with us. Let's be very quick on this last one, which is that we have a chance now to get this letter on Cuba to call for normalization of relations. We actually got 93 members of Congress so far to sign and we have until Friday, we want to hit the 100 mark and we'd really love to hit the 111 mark because then we'd have the majority of the Democratic members of Congress. So, we have a call in party for that tomorrow. This will be at one o'clock Eastern time. I'm going to put a another link right in the chat right there. If you could spend an hour with us tomorrow, we'll give you for different members of Congress to contact, and you can help us reach the 100 mark. So thank you very much on that, and I think I'll save the rest of the updates because we better get into our program. Right. It's great to hear about that call in party and if you can't make it, hopefully you can, but if you can't make it please do ask your member of Congress to sign on to that letter that media just mentioned. Okay, next, I want to introduce a very special guest Carl Grossman. He is the author and a professor of journalism at the State University of New York's College of Old Westbury. Carl Grossman received a master's degree in media studies from the new school for social research and wrote the book weapons in space, which outlines the US military space doctrine and its similarity with Ronald Reagan Star Wars game to dominate the earth from space. Welcome Carl Grossman. A pleasure to be with you. Congresswoman waters talked about the outer space treaty and, and that's key the outer space treaty of 1967 sets space aside for peaceful purposes and bans weapons of mass destruction. I believe China and Russia have for decades, they're our neighbor Canada, sort to expand the outer space treaty to outlaw to ban all weapons, not just weapons of mass destruction, all weapons in space. The United States has for decades blocked passage at the United Nations of the tariffs treaty the prevention of an arms race in outer space treaty. I think Iceland Roth, who actually died earlier this year he's in Philadelphia. He is a young State Department officer worked with his counterparts from the Soviet Union and the United Kingdom, and drafting and putting together the outer space treaty. He told me numerous times is quote we sought to de weaponize space before it got weaponized now with this with this space force. We're heading towards. Well, trashing the outer space treaty indeed I mean sadly enough. President throughout died this year at 85, but we, we must not have the outer space treaty die to when Trump started pushing for this space force. He said it's not enough to merely have an American presence in space we must have American dominance dominance this one country is going to dominate a space. And finally, the current President Biden, I'm just reading a headline here defense news from this year with Biden's full support. The Space Force is officially here to stay. The article went on US President Biden will not seek to eliminate the space force White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters during a February briefing that the new service has the full support of the Biden administration. And she went on we're not revisiting the decision. So it's very important that from the grassroots, we move to get rid of to push to stop this this space force which already has a budget of near $20 billion. It's launched its first offensive weapon. It's just, it's just asking for the United States is just asking for with this space force to turn the heavens into a war zone. Very disturbing and tonight I urge everybody to stay on we're going to be calling our reps in the house to ask them to sign on and become co sponsors of a bill to abolish the space forces Congresswoman waters mentioned, and we'll also be contacting the White House we can tell the White House to to discontinue this US Space Force though I'm not sure at this point that the White House could do that it seems like it's mandated in the National Defense Authorization Act that passes the 15 billion for the US Space Force. But in any event, we also want to make sure that we don't see further militarization of NASA and the International Space Station which is under threat as well. So we're going to come back to you Professor Grossman in a minute after we hear from Bruce Gagman, longtime activist and he is going to introduce him and then we'll have a Q&A period for both of you. Wonderful and remember you can put your questions in the chat it's my pleasure to introduce Bruce Gagman because I'm such a fan of yours Bruce. Bruce is a coordinator of the global network against weapons and nuclear power in space. He's a Vietnam era veteran and was trained as an organizer by the United Farm Workers Union, which you can really tell because he's a stellar organizer. He has been on both the Pacific and the Maine and regularly protests at the Navy shipyard there where just destroyers outfitted with so called missile defense systems are built. He also coordinates a whole just people all over the world on these issues and does remarkable work both writing and being an activist you're really a model for us. Thank you, Medea and Marcy. Thank you very much. I'd like to share screen if I could. I have just a couple of slides to help illustrate this. I can't get to the top part to get rid of this, so I'm gonna have to. Anyway, the US space command that the Congresswoman mentioned published this document vision for 2020 in 1997 that says US will control space, dominate space to deny other countries access to space. And on the right from the space command headquarters at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, you see their slogan, master of space. With the creation of the space force, I must in all fairness say that we must remember that the Democrats controlled the house at the time the space force was approved in the House of Representatives. In fact, the only thing the Democrats asked for was to call it the space core rather than the space force. But in the picture on the left, you see a woman officer recently sworn in at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California is gonna be one of the new space force officers. And what's really striking to me about that photo is how they trotted out the Star Wars movie characters as if somehow this was gonna build popular support for the agency. You know, they say that everything the Pentagon does today, whether you're a troop on the ground in a tank, whether you're on a ship in the ocean, whether you're on a plane in the air or satellites in space, everything the US military does is coordinated and directed by space technology. Under the creation of the new space force, they have a new procurement arm and their job is to make sure the space force gets all the new technologies that they need. This slide to me is extremely interesting. You might have heard that Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and others are launching tens of thousands of satellites into space, ostensibly for 5G. As it turns out, 5G has serious military applications for surveillance, intelligence and targeting, but they want a layered system in space, one layer after the other after the other so they can control and dominate space and the earth below. I won't get into what Karl talked about, the Outer Space Treaty of 1967, signed between the US and Russia and the Peros Treaty, the prevention of an arms race in outer space. I like to say that Peros means close the barn door before the horse gets out, but the US since NYTRA mining colonies to the Mars for mining colonies, to the asteroids for mining colonies. And so again, this is a terribly dangerous thing. We have to remember that these nuclear devices are fabricated at the department of energy laboratories around the country and they have a long tragic record of contamination of workers, of community water supplies and community air. In the end, let me finish with this. Back about 15, 20 years ago, the industry publication Space News ran an editorial where they say, we have to be good corporate citizens and come up with a dedicated funding source to pay for all of this stuff we wanna do in space. And they say, we have. It's the entitlement programs that officially are social security, Medicare and Medicaid and what's left of the social safety net that is in tatters today. So these are the programs that the military industrial complex has targeted for defunding in order to pay for the space force, the nuclear rockets to Mars and nuclear colonies to Mars and everything else. Thank you very much for listening. So and then also get Bruce's response. You can see what happened with the Paros Treaty. There was Russia and China and Canada trying to indeed expand the outer space treaty and keep space for peace. And the US just blocked, I was at the UN and I've seen this occur, blocking the passage of the Paros Treaty. These days, the United States now under Biden trying to get kind of an astro boogeyman out of China and Russia. And we have to go up there. We have to have the space force because of Russia and China. What we have to do before space becomes and it will, we're at a turning point before space becomes a war zone is negotiate diplomacy, work to, again, it was done in 1967. Most nations on the planet have ratified, have signed on to the outer space treaty. We have to get back to the vision of the outer space treaty and truly keep space for peace. And Bruce, did you wanna respond to that? Yeah, I think that we should remember that for the last 20 years, after the US pulled out of the ABM Treaty, the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty that was under George W. Bush's time in office. Russia and China have been saying you're now encircling us with these so-called missile defense systems that are the shield to be used after a US first strike attack. We'd like to get rid of our nuclear weapons, but we can't because now our retaliatory force would be in jeopardy after you hit us in a first strike and then we try to retaliate. You have this missile defense shield that would ostensibly pick off Russian and Chinese nuclear missiles. So it's my perception, having worked on this issue for many years that Russia and China have been really trying to negotiate honestly and fairly. I saw a question just a minute ago asking about the recent Russian tests where they knocked out one of their own old military satellites in space. I was asked to comment on that. Russia has done that, China has done that, India has done that and the United States did it. In 2008, an operation they called Burnt Frost that fired from an Aegis destroyer that they were made here in Bath, Maine, where I live. It fired a missile defense interceptor into space and knocked out a satellite. And so my perception of what Russia was saying was, you're increasingly being aggressive towards us. NATO is surrounding both encircling Russia and China today. NATO is actually moving into the Asia Pacific and we're not gonna let you be the master of space. We've tried to negotiate, but if it comes down to it, we will deal with you. That's not the best situation that we're looking for, obviously. But I think we've got to really pressure our own government here. Yes, Bruce, I noticed recently that there's a lot in the news about the US military saying, we've got to even be more aggressive in space because China is launching these new weapons in space. Any thoughts on that, you or Karl? Ken, in my view, pushed China and Russia after these decades of refusing to expand the outer space treaty and now creating a space force, we've really pushed Russia and China and I'm not trying to make any excuses. It's been decades. We've pushed them to the wall to a situation where they're really getting ready to respond in kind. And when we weaponize space as we're moving towards with this space force, even though, and I've spoken to the Chinese diplomats, I've spoken to Russian diplomats and take it for what it's worth. And they've said to me, and I've written this in articles and reported it on TV programs, they say we don't wanna blow out national treasuries on weapons in space. I mean, this isn't like purchasing a Bradley fighting vehicle. We're talking about billions upon billions of dollars, but they've told me too, if the US persists and does this, we're gonna respond in kind and I'm afraid now we're seeing that response. I think it's important to remember that during World War II when Hitler invaded the form of Soviet Union, by the end of it, 27 million Soviet citizens died at the hands of the Nazis. And Russia is pretty clear that they're not gonna ever let that happen again to their people. And that's where we are today. When you're encircling Russia as the US and NATO are today, remember it was Bill Clinton that broke the promise of George Herbert Walker Bush to Gorbachev that NATO would not expand one centimeter towards the Russian border. When Bill Clinton was in office, he started a NATO expansion and it's been on steroids ever since. Bruce, I wonder. I would just like to add another layer here which is important for people to, you gotta understand and know history. A lot of the US space policy developed way back when the United States under what was called Project Paperclip brought over 1,000 Nazi scientists including Verna von Braun to this country. And they were involved, many of them were involved in Nazi rocketry including von Braun. In fact, he was based with some of his fellow former, I don't know, former Nazi scientists at the Redstone Army Arsenal in Alabama. And there what he led the development of was the Redstone rocket which was basically more or less a duplicate V2 rocket. It was the first rocket developed by the United States capable of carrying a nuclear weapon. There was a General Dornbergerer also brought here Project Paperclip. He was in charge of the whole Nazi rocket program and he wrote a plan. This goes back after World War II of nuclear arms satellites all up in space being able to having the US controls. And then let's jump to Ronald Reagan's Star Wars program. I mean, the Star Wars program was predicated on and I detail it weapons in space on orbiting battle platforms with laser weapons, hyper-velocity guns and particle beams. And part of that nuclear connection, that's where it's the global network against weapons and nuclear power in space. And this wasn't reported back in the 80s was that these battle platforms which would be above our heads that the US would put into space would have nuclear reactors on them or super plutonium systems providing energy for these high-energy weapons. Indeed, General James Abramson who was in charge of the Strategic Defense Initiative also called Star Wars said at a conference and I've quoted him many times on this that without reactors in orbit we're gonna have to have a long extension cord back down to earth bringing up power for these weapons. So here we are now with the space force with it's gearing up to do Star Wars deja vu to weaponize space and with a democratic regime in Washington, though these Congress people who have bought forth this important act that we referenced tonight have done a very good thing. But basically, as I said earlier what's needed here is grassroots action. And I would suggest folks tie into the global network against weapons and nuclear power in space because it's been the leading group internationally fighting this nightmare of the United States leading the weaponization of space. Yes, Carl, and we have with us the co-chair or rather the co-founder of that group Bruce Gagnon and Bruce, if you wanna chime in on what your organization has been doing to push back on the militarization of space that would be great. And also maybe if you can give us some of the nitty gritty on what kind of weapons they're putting up there or plan to put up there. I've read about direct energy weapons, laser weapons as Carl mentioned and so forth. Yeah, many different things. You know, not everything works out. They are saying that their first space force weapon will be basically a ground-based laser that could basically hit a satellite in space. A different kind of anti-satellite weapon, if you will. They've tested these already. They're working on kinetic energy weapons. That just means one thing smashing into another in space. They have various technologies where they wanna be able to fire something, a missile or some object from space to targets on the earth, part of the US First Strike Program. You should all pay attention to the X-37, the super drone that has shown it can stay in orbit for over a year at a time. And, you know, non-manned, non-person drone, its capability they say could be used for surveillance, reconnaissance, knocking out satellites in space, but also dropping weapons onto the earth that would be used again in First Strike attack, nuclear bombs, for example. So a whole host of these technologies and many more are underway. The global network before COVID every year we would have an international conference in a different country, trying to go to various places around the world that are part of this project. As it turns out, the US has set up downlink stations around the world that talk to the satellites as US military satellites, orbit the earth, they relay signals, they spy on people in Europe and in Asia Pacific for the NSA. And so we go to these places and we have conferences. We also make a lot of videos. Every month we do a video. I urge you to go to our website and look in our resource section for our videos. We're not gonna get anywhere until more people begin to understand this issue. And this is why we every month make a short video about a different aspect of this space program. So please go and look at those videos and look also in that same section at our recent newsletters. There's a big push right now to build new space ports all over the world in the United States and around the planet because Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, these guys they're getting contracts from NASA and the Pentagon to launch these 5G satellites that again are gonna have military operation application. And so they need more launch facilities. And when you launch, they're talking 80,000 mini satellites into space. Guess what happens? Toxic pollution that goes up and begins to further degrade the ozone layer. We're talking greater climate impact here, climate change, climate crisis. So all these issues really come back together on some level. We're talking money, we're talking climate, we're talking war, it all fits together. Absolutely, and I appreciate you making that connection. I was reading about space debris as well and how we're looking at more collisions in space and the fallout from this debris. And I think that this topic of the militarization of spaces is missing from the conversation about climate. So thank you for bringing that up. Let me just add one short point about the space debris. In 1989, I organized a protest at the Kennedy Space Center and our speaker that day was Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell, one of the early moonwalkers. He came to speak out against weapons in space. And he said, if we have one war in space, it will be the one and only because we will create so much more space debris orbiting the planet at over 15,000 miles an hour. It's gonna create a cascading effect, crashing into international space station into other satellites. And before long, you just have this field. He called it a piranha laced river or a minefield around the earth. We won't be able to get a rocket off the planet. And more importantly, the earth goes dark because virtually everything we do on the planet today, whether it's cell phones, internet banking, cable TV, air traffic control, GPS, you name it, everything is hooked up to satellites. And so when we have this cascading effect, smashing everything in space, life on the planet, literally, we always are accused of wanting to go back to the Stone Age, well, this is the way to do it. Thank you very much Bruce Gagnon and Carl Grossman. At this point, I would love for everybody to unmute or shave, you can help us all unmute. And we can thank our guests because we definitely want to get on to the action portion of this call where we're urging our reps to cosponsor the no militarization of space act. And we're also contacting the White House and we'll all hear us, the vice president who has a very important role.