 Yeah, welcome back. We're live. We're think tech. And we're Hawaii, the cutting edge H.O. What is it Hawaii 808, the cutting edge of energy. And we have Brian K. Aloha. He leads Hawaii energy, which is a very important organization in the state of Hawaii. Welcome to the show, Brian. Aloha. Thanks for having me, Jay. That's great. So let's talk about Hawaii energy for a moment. People need to know what it is, what it does, how it's organized, and what its mission is in terms of affecting our energy use and our move to clean energy. Sure. Well, Hawaii energy, we're funded by all the ratepayers here in Hawaii, except for Hawaii County. So what I always encourage people to do is you haven't heard about us, check us out. Look at our website. But our mission is really to help Hawaii's families and businesses be more energy efficient. And by doing so, they'll be able to reduce their energy costs and really help us towards our 100% clean energy future. So we have a number of programs, incentives, and offerings really to help encourage businesses and families to make those smart energy choices. They range from if you go to Costco or your favorite retailer and buy an LED lamp, you'll see some of those bulbs are marked down right there at the time of purchase. All the way to large hotels doing big air conditioning and chiller retrofit projects. We'll help with technical assistance and incentives for that as well. Yeah, leading by doing. Yeah, you're out there. And I don't think people realize that the best renewable of all is not to use the energy. Absolutely. After all, we're trying to avoid fossil fuel. This is a great being highly leveraged way to do that. Exactly. I mean, energy efficiency is the lowest cost resource in the overall portfolio. So one of the things that we always try to highlight is, especially here on Oahu, we're not going to be able to meet our 100% clean energy goal, just being able to what we can generate here on Island. We've got limited land space and we're talking a lot about how do we use that land for agriculture? Is it for affordable housing? Is it for energy? And the only way we're going to hit there is to reduce our energy use, change how we use energy and be more efficient. I think everybody is behind wasting less and saving money on their energy bill. Sounds nice. It's sometimes something that we forget to practice in our day to day lives. I remember it was a program not too long ago where Alan Oshima spoke, the outgoing president of Hawaiian Electric. He was talking about lessons that we have learned here, including your lessons about energy efficiency, that we have learned about doing renewables and avoiding fossil fuels and moving to meet our targets. And what he said was, we are way ahead in terms of our thinking and our planning and our policy, way ahead of most states and most countries for that matter. There's a lot people can learn from us. And he was talking about moving to consult and advise other jurisdictions about what we've learned. And that's important because the international effort has to be to get away from fossil fuel. And so what you do is directly related to that. Can you talk about climate change for a minute? Sure. I think that's the reason why so many people are now getting more interested in energy efficiency, which we appreciate. They're realizing what can they do to really have a positive impact or reduce the impact perhaps of their lives and the damage that's being done to the climate. And we talk about plastics and recycling and a lot of those types of things, which is very important. But as it comes to what can people do in their own homes, energy usage is a big part of that. And when you look at energy efficiency, it really isn't intended to be something that is a sacrifice. It's just again, reducing waste and being that so much of our electrical generation now is still fossil fuel based. Reducing that energy usage is very important. I think one of the things that we're seeing as a growing trend now here in Hawaii, right, is just with that we have a lot more solar energy on our grid, which is awesome. And it's great. So when we use electricity is becoming as important as how much we use. And the utility has a number of programs and will be soon be coming out with different rates that will encourage different time of use type pricing. And it's the same when we look at how do we use energy? We don't want to be charging our electric vehicles right in the five to nine period. So one of the programs we piloted last year was a EV charging station pilot for workplace charging to encourage the use of EV charging stations during the day when you go to work and also kind of overcome some of the barriers that a number of multifamily unit residents run into where they don't have charging stations where they live. That's a big that's a challenge, you know, especially in condominium living there are 1800 condominium horizontal property regimes now in Hawaii is very popular format for living and it will become more popular, I think as we go forward. But it's hard to put charging stations in those projects and without charging stations, you you lose on the possibility of incentivizing people to buy electric vehicles. So can you talk about where we are in terms of encouraging people to buy electric vehicles? I know we have 10,000 now in a state of a million cars. How are we going to get to 20 and 50 and 100,000? What role will one in Hawaii energy play in all of that? Right. And really to frame that question, as you said, what is the role that Hawaii energy can play? Because as we look at the overall landscape, I think one of the biggest challenges is that we don't have enough even electric vehicles here for sale. If somebody's interested, that's one of the biggest challenges. The wait times to be able to get a vehicle, it's not that they can roll into the dealership and have a selection of thousands of different or hundreds of different types of vehicles. So getting the availability of vehicles on island is a big part of the component. But then once the vehicle is owned, it becomes how are they able to charge the electric vehicles. And that's the role that we really play. Our role at Hawaii Energy is really to help at a consumer level, at a business level, really kind of that behind the meter type services. So we've been very fortunate that the Public Utilities Commission has seen really the benefits of what Hawaii Energy has been able to do over the past three years, as well as the legislature. And so within this past session, Act 142 was passed, which enabled the EV charging station rebate program to commence from taxpayers. So it's administered or assigned to the PEC, administered by Hawaii Energy, but we are providing rebates for level two and level three charging stations. And we've expanded it beyond what the pilot was, which was workplaces and multifamily, to be any publicly available charging station. And we have a budget of about 400,000 for the next year and a half. Rebates range from 4,500 for a new level two, 3,000 for a retrofit of a level two. If you do a level three, which is the fast chargers, that's 35,000. So you can see funding is limited and we encourage people who are interested to take advantage of it. But we believe that if we can help build out the infrastructure and also make sure that people are understanding when to charge, that's a big part of what we're hoping to accomplish through all of this. Yeah. Well, you know, we collectively have to be relentless about this. Now, if we had a dictator running the state and he decided it's a matter of policy that everybody should be driving electric vehicles, that would be pretty easy, you know, wake up on a Monday morning and command it. But we're not, we're a democracy and we're, you know, transparent and collaborative and people have to express themselves and everybody agrees on everything. But we have to be relentless and we have to keep pushing this sort of thing. And Hawaii Energy is really in the center of that, I would say. The utility is doing things too. It has programs, you know, for charging stations and the like. But, you know, going forward, you know, the risk to me is that we're not relentless, you know, that we have a program and it ends and then nothing replaces it. So, you know, it seems to me that the mantle falls on Hawaii Energy to be relentless, to keep on doing it, to keep on campaigning and lobbying for support from the legislature and elsewhere. And so how do you see the future unfolding in electric cars? So, I think, I think we're excited. There seems to be, you know, much more of a tipping point in terms of consumer acceptance. I think a lot of people in the past traditionally have seen electric vehicles either as the Nissan Leafs or the Teslas and there really wasn't anything else in between. Now we're seeing a proliferation of various different types of models that are, again, making it more approachable and accessible to the everyday family who wants to own a vehicle. They're not really thinking about whether it's fuel or electric vehicle. They want the features that the vehicle has and not necessarily searching out for an electric vehicle. So, we're excited to see that inventory grow. And that along the way will obviously increase penetration, but if they're not able to charge their EVs, that's going to be a significant problem and we recognize that. And that's part of the reason why we launched the program that we did. And one of the things that we found is going through the pilot program, you know, one of the biggest costs to installing an EV charging station isn't the charging station itself. It's actually all of the electrical infrastructure upgrades that need to happen at a facility to take on that additional load, especially if the facility is constrained. Well, as we looked at one of the commercial parking garages that was evaluating and putting in an EV charging station, when we paired this with our, you know, lighting program and they were able to install LED lights, it reduced the load to allow for the installation of charging. So, what we're really seeing now and then the role that Hawaii Energy is playing is that these technologies are mixing together, efficiency and EV charging and demand response and storage to the average customer, you know, residential or business. They don't know the difference between efficiency and EV charging. And for us, we want to really help simplify the message so that people can make those smart energy choices and play their part. So, let's make me somebody who was on the cusp of buying an electric vehicle, okay? And I live in a single family home. Will the program help me? What do I have to do these days to get prepared for my electric vehicle? And, you know, I'm very excited about the technology, but I need realism in terms of for the economics. Right, right. So, unfortunately, the way that Act 142 is set up, it's not available for single family residences. They, because it was a limited amount of funding, they were trying to target, I think, the areas that had the biggest challenges, which was the multi-family unit dwellings. But that being said, you have a level one charge already in your house, right? It's an outlet. So, at minimum, you're able to do that. Hoine Electric actually has a program right now with Juicebox and they're providing free, I think it's up to 300 charging stations. I think you have to pay for the shipping and agree to sign up as part of their demand response program. But that's available to single family residents as well. Yeah, I think your bigger question, right, it's how are you going to manage if you now have a new load at your house? It's going to increase your electric bill regardless if you have PV or not, right? So, that's part of what you, when we are talking to homeowners or to renters about how do you manage your electrical costs? One of the things that we try to stress is, again, let's bring down the overall cost of electricity at your facility first. Let's change out your appliances. Let's change out your lights. Let's look at things that are easy for you to do that might easily be just not using as much electricity. For example, using a clothesline or making sure your dishwasher is full before you run it. A lot of these little things that add up and save significant amount of money. So, what are the trends in the technology? What are the trends in connecting charging stations to solar on your roof? Because, you know, those are like separate trends, but they're coming, as you say, they're getting connected. They're coming together. What does it look like? Right. Well, obviously, when you compare the charging of the EVs with renewable energy, you really have an ideal situation there, right? Because if we're just charging our EVs with what's coming off of the grid, 70% of that's still fossil fuel based approximately. So, obviously, some of the earliest adopters were people that install PV at their homes. A lot of times they may have installed more PV than what they needed and they were at this stage of, are we going to install or purchase an EV or install air conditioning? And whichever choice they made, we've seen actually energy usage go up with customers on average that have installed PV. And so that's a disturbing trend for us when we're really focused on how do we make people more efficient and reduce their energy usage? It's great that you are getting most of your power from the PV on your roof, but at the same time, how do we ensure that your new loads are being efficient? And so that's one of the things that we're concerned about and trying to improve the education around. I think one of the things that's exciting on the charging station technology is, especially not so much for single family homes, but for larger businesses or for multifamily unit dwellings, the technology or the smarts in those charging stations can delay and change when different vehicles are being charged so that it's not, you know, if you have capacity problems, perhaps you can install four chargers, maybe you only have capacity for one and it will trickle charge 25% across the four chargers or if they know certain routines, they can charge 100% for this one and then the next hour 50% for these two. So the technology is really becoming smart so that there isn't an inconvenience for you to own an EV and it really should be an added pleasure that you don't have to go to the gas station. Yeah, that's very comforting to know that and you would expect that. It's all about information technology, computers, programming, what have you. Let me take a digression for a moment and ask you about, you talk about appliances and one of the appliances that has gone on for 20 years anyway has been traditional rooftop solar or hot water and there's a bill, is there not, that's been discussed and pending I think in the city council, I want to say bill 25. If you know about this, can we talk about what that means to energy efficiency and Hawaii energy? Sure, absolutely. You know, bill 25 is the adoption of, you know, the state adopted a couple of years ago the IECC, the International Energy Conservation Code. So bill 25 incorporates the formal adoption of the energy code along with additional modifications specific to the city and county of Honolulu. So first of all, we're excited that bill 25 is finally moving forward and we're hopeful that at the next reading it will be passed because when we look at what's happening on a national level, there's been significant rollbacks under the current administration on energy efficiency and appliance standards and a number of areas where we need to have some of these protections back at a local level to ensure that we don't take a step backwards, both in renewable energy, energy efficiency and clean transportation. You know, as it relates to bill 25 and solar water heating, that's a very hot debate in terms of what is the best resource for customers to be able to reduce their energy usage through solar water heating and their bills and how much more does solar water heating actually cost in a new build and that's the subject of a lot of debate. I think from our perspective at Hawaii Energy, we see that the 20-year lifecycle costs for a solar water heater makes so much sense and if we really, we talk about affordable housing, but we need to keep people in their homes as well, so we need to make sure that we're reducing their energy costs and they're able to pay their mortgage on an ongoing basis. So we're very much proponents of ensuring that solar water heating is the first option. We obviously understand it's not always going to be the case, but there should only be very few exceptions and the rule being that we're pushing solar water heating. Yeah, you know, Hawaii Energy is like in so many directions, there's so many possibilities, so many options and as you mentioned, the administration in Washington has cut back on renewable programs and so it falls on the states and local government to fill in the gap and that puts more possibilities out there for you to attend to. It's actually a great opportunity, I think, because it lets the state, lets the state of Hawaii explore these possibilities, adopt these possibilities and share what it has learned with other jurisdictions. In a way, it's positive, don't you think, although it gives you more to do, doesn't it, Brian? It gives us more to do. I wish we wouldn't have some of the rollbacks on the federal level, but to your point, I'm super energized and excited about the leadership here at a local level. I mean, last session, when applying standards was passed by our legislature and signed by Governor Ige, that was a big effort and step to show the rest of the country that Hawaii is serious about maintaining the positive momentum we've seen in clean energy and energy efficiency. Part of the bill that was passed last year also sought to really prevent the impacts of the rollbacks that we at the time, I hope, would never happen and now we're here facing it, but really helps protect Hawaii from that. We made a conscious effort to align all of our applying standards to California because the reality is Hawaii is not going to control a marketplace when it comes to retailers and goods, but California is the fifth biggest or third biggest economy in the world, so when you look at it from that perspective, the more that we just align with what California was doing, but really send the message that you can't dump your inefficient appliance in Hawaii, because appliances in Hawaii, because we saw that a lot. Retailers, once you put it on a boat, it will never go back to the continent, and so the older inefficient models that they couldn't sell in California made their way here, so those are the types of pieces. I'm not going to let them do that. I'm not going to let them do it anymore. One interesting thing is we have changes. Of course, the world changes and Hawaii is not exempt from that. We have changes in the PUC, new commissioners. We have change in the state energy office, a new leader of the energy office. We have changes in utility. Hawaiian Electric changed presidents just a few days ago, and all these changes are around you, swirling around you, Brian. How does it affect you? How does it affect Hawaii Energy's way of looking at things and doing things? How does it affect the public? Good news is, all these people that you're mentioning have been part of the energy landscape in Hawaii for at least several years now, and in some cases decades. We're not seeing a major change where people are coming into these new roles and really aren't familiar with what's happening in Hawaii, either in regards to energy or in the case of Scotland in relation to climate and carbon emissions. From that perspective, I'm hoping the transition is really smooth. Actually, I'm pretty excited about the various changes that are happening around us. From the discussions I've been having with these individuals, as well as what they've shared publicly, there's a real commitment for Hawaii to hit our clean energy goals and to hit them perhaps faster than what's even mandated. As you let off the segment earlier, we're going to have to accelerate our efforts if we want to have a real impact to mitigating what's happening in climate change. The Hawaii Energy Policy Forum event a couple weeks ago really highlighted the role that Hawaii does play in a national picture as we set these policies and directions. A lot of the country is following us. While some of the things I just referenced earlier was in California leading the way, actually Hawaii is leading the way in a number of other areas. That's going to be important that these changes with our leaders across the PUC, the utility within the state energy office, they all seem on board to aggressively pursue our clean energy goals. Of course, I think we're all going to have different approaches and different ways to get there. That's part of how do we work together to make this all happen. Most importantly, include everyone in the transition. We can't leave people behind. Low-income, Alice families are struggling to make ends meet. We have to be cognizant about how do we keep electric bills affordable while we make this transition. I forgot to mention one big change is Sharon Moriwaki got elected to the state senate. She was running the active member running the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum. Sherilyn Wee has stepped in from the university and is now leading energy policy forum. She's the one who organized that program we're talking about. The legislative briefing now known as the energy briefing, I think, or the annual briefing just a couple of weeks ago. In fact, we're working on footage of that right now. I guess you participated in that, of course, I saw you there. It's part of the need for Hawaii Energy to go out there and connect with the sector. It's important that the sector talks to each other. That's always been a strength in Hawaii and it needs to continue. The sector has to know each other and deal with each other and make deals. Keep everybody together on hopefully the same page. But it also means that people like you, Brian, have to go out and participate in public programs. And there's a number of them happening. Certainly it didn't end. It began this year with the briefing. But then there's the one in Maui. I think there's a big one in Honolulu. And then you're going to do one in April. So can you talk about how you reach the public and how you participate in these various programs? Sure. Like you said, our organization is unique because we span the whole spectrum from policy all the way down to the individual homeowner. And we'll be participating in all the events that you mentioned from helping to hopefully influence policy in the ways that are driving energy efficiency and make sure that we hit our mandated energy efficiency targets. While some of this, a lot of what I've been sharing is what we need to do aspirationally for our climate. It's important to remember we have on statute by 2030 to achieve a 4,300 gigawatt hour reduction. And the initial progress towards that, we're passing those milestones of where we need to be. But it's getting harder, right? As the low hanging fruit is picked, we're going to have to reach higher. So it goes at the policy level all the way down to one of the events that we're hosting on April 29th that the Sheraton-Waikiki is our third annual innovation symposium. And this is really targeted to commercial businesses, facility managers, owners, operators that are struggling with high energy costs and trying to figure out how can they reduce money off of their electric bill. We have a panel, well, we have a number of different speakers ranging from energy directors of national energy directors of Whole Foods and Wendy's across the board to technology and solutions providers that will help not only provide some technical ideas and innovative solutions, but also just how to get things unstuck in your organization and get approval. Because a lot of what we focus on again is at that thousand foot level. And how do we make these projects actually happen? Because most of them are very cost effective. They provide a great return on investment. There's other barriers that are keeping it from moving forward. And that's what we're here to help address. So can I come? Can everybody come? Is this open to the public? It's open to the public. What we have information on our website. We encourage the public to come and attend. So yes, absolutely. We love to have you, Jay, and everyone else watching. So what's your website? www.hoienergy.com. So my last area of inquiry with you, Brian, is this, you know, where are we in terms of the consciousness, the awareness of the public, of people in general? You know, we've had, you know, we've had arguments, disagreements about so many things in renewable energy because we're in a transformation and everybody comes along at the same speed. And we have to get everybody in the boat, so to speak, so that everyone understands and everyone cooperates and everyone wants to move the needle ahead. And everyone is educated, you know, because the lack of education creates a kind of a drag if people don't know. So you have programs to do that. And we all need to have programs to do that. Where is the public right now, Brian? Are they up to speed? What are we doing? What can we do to make them, you know, get behind these changes and this development taught clean energy? Well, first of all, thank you for doing what you're doing, Jay. I mean, obviously, just being able to share this information is one big important piece in how do we educate people about what's happening at a policy level as well as what they can do individually. But you highlight a really key point. I think things we've seen energy awareness and energy literacy improve. At least, you know, during my time at Hawaii Energy over the past four years, I've seen it personally. But at the same time, I'd say we have a really long way to go. If you were to ask the average person about clean energy or energy efficiency, they'll be supportive of it, but I wouldn't say that they're very well versed in it. And arguably, you know, maybe they don't need to be. What's the point of, what point do we need to educate them to be able to play their part versus being energy experts? And I think that's really what we're focused on at Hawaii Energy is how do we make things easy? How do we make things simple? So it's just integrated into everybody's lives on a day-to-day basis. And as technology grows and improves, I mean, look at Smart Home, look at Alexa and Google and all of those devices that are popping up in so many homes, people are using it because of the features and the benefits of a better lifestyle that can provide. Well, the great news about a lot of these Smart Home technologies, it provides a lot of opportunities for improved energy usage and efficiency. So again, how do we make things easy, automatic, and not require a lot of thought for homeowners? It's probably the number one way we're going to move the needle significantly. And then engaging those that do want to learn and do want to do more. I do want to feel like they have their civic duty to step up and share and message that. That's a lot of the work that we're doing too, especially in community. We're finding that as more and more people understand what the impacts are to their community around renewable energy development perhaps happening or major infrastructure upgrades that have to happen in the community. What can be done to minimize the impact of that? And often it points back to, again, being literate on energy and also what can they do in their own homes to be energy efficient and hopefully reduce some of the size or need of what we're doing. Very important for the state. Brian K Aloha, Hawaii Energy. Thank you so much, Brian. Oh, thank you for having me, Jay. Aloha.