 All right, we'll give folks a few minutes to come on in. I see Liz here. Yes, hi. Excellent. I'm just having a mild panic trying to find a power adapter, but now I've sorted. Usually it's like, you know, something else goes wrong. Definitely could. Yeah, we'll give everyone a few minutes. A few more minutes. We've got a fairly late agenda today. So we might actually be early. Who knows? All right, slides and notes are up into the chat. As requested, we'll give everyone a few more minutes to come on in. All right, what do you think? Should we get started? Yes, we have five of the quorum-ish. So one more person needs to be a quorum, but there's no actual votes going on today. So I think we're good. OK, great. Well, let me make sure that I've got screen shared doing the proper thing here. There we go. There we go. Liz, go ahead. Rock and roll. Welcome, everyone. Usual rules apply. I'm sure you've all seen these things and all the logistics. If you have any questions, please shout. You're all here already. So you found the meeting. Some of us are here. And I guess maybe you'll be keeping track of who's here and who isn't. We've got everyone. We need you. Thank you. OK, so we've got a couple of votes to talk about. Quick review of the new Sandbox annual review process. TOT elections are about to happen. Who knows? You may find a completely different lineup next month. And then hopefully Paris will be telling us some marvelous ideas she's had around SIG Contributex. OK. So vote updates. We have two updates. One was on SIG Runtime. Hooray, SIG Runtime is a thing. Do we have any representatives of SIG Runtime here to receive rapturous applause and welcome? I'm not sure that we do. Sorry, but they let out the word. We're delighted to be able to have things come through. So we're good to go on that one. Yeah, awesome. And we've also approved the thing around increasing the number of TOC sponsors to three at the point where the TOC becomes 11 members rather than nine, which happens after the election cycle that we're about to talk about. Yes. So that should just be a minor change where it says two Sandbox sponsors. It will say three Sandbox sponsors. Actually, yeah, no, let's carry on. Yeah, OK, so Sandbox annual review process. We wrote actually, I don't know, Amy, if you're responsible for this summary, but I think it's very nice. Yes, this is like I pulled things together in a one slide thing, so everybody knows there is just one thing to do for our Sandbox annual reviews. Yeah, and we're basically asking the Sandbox projects to complete a short set of questions just to keep the TOC informed about what the state of the project is. That will be circulated publicly so anyone can comment on it, raise any concerns. The key thing for the TOC is for us to be saying, well, is this project actually at a point where we want to try and move it into incubation? Should it is, you know, maybe it's going to be time for it to be archived. So it's really just trying to keep the momentum moving forward for Sandbox projects. Has any project got their notification yet, Amy? Or is that still today? I was waiting for this meeting to be able to make sure that everybody had, like, you know, any questions to be able to raise here, anything like that, and I will work on being able to make sure that that spreadsheet is public so people can see, like, when they're up for annual reviews. Great. Any questions on that process? Checking chat, checking anything else? Everyone's OK here? Sounds like everyone is OK, nothing coming in on chat. Also happy to be able to field questions from mailing lists if people have questions, so. I put a link directly over so that everyone knows, like, here is all of the questions that we are asking. So again, we don't have to be able to have, like, you know, what are we asking for? We're asking for this. This is taken directly from the GitHub page that Michelle put together. Cool. OK. Anything else here, Liz? I don't think so. OK. Yeah. All right. Great. We'll just drop in towards our election update and, oh, my gosh, this might be the fastest meeting we have ever done. Yeah. Folks know about the qualification voting period going on now. And that's why this particular timeline is listed as such. Yeah. So this is for elections by the governing board, by maintainers and by brain trees. What's the third group? There's a third group. Users. End users. And I think because of this state coming up, we're not going to have any votes outstanding for the TOC, I guess, from now. We are closed. Yes. So nothing until the new TOC is reconstituted. After February 3rd. Great. Any questions? Any questions? This is so straightforward. Hooray. Good. All right. Paris. You may or may not be awake. I know, right? I was like, oh, wow. I have until at least 8 30 a.m. Well, now I know how businesses run around these parts. All right. Hi, everyone. For those that don't know me, my name is Paris. I work at Google. I spent the last two years as the chair of Kubernetes contributor experience. I did a meritous myself out Wednesday for new life into the SIG, if you will. So what I wanted to share with you all today is back in KubeCon in San Diego. I spoke to Liz and Michelle and a couple other people about this like valid idea that I had because I was seeing tons of emails go come across the TOC mailing list that had a lot of things to do with teaching maintainers how to better run contributor experience programs and or share with each other and or build community around each other. And that's kind of what we do in Kubernetes. I think it's sort of the secret sauce. It's kind of like the SIG humans, if you will. The human part to it. However, I do know get and mark down. We can argue how technical I am later. So anyway, go ahead and flip that slide, Amy. So like the first things first, most people that I've pitched this to are like, tell me not another meeting. Yes, it is another meeting. There is no current limited intentional space for CNCF project maintainers. Yes, there's a mailing list. CNCF community groups. You see that because a lot of that conversation happens on the TOC list. Curious about upstream end users. We either have those come to SIG meetings direct and folks think that that's not necessarily the place for them or user groups just trying to figure out where end users fit into kind of the upstream process, if you will. And I know individual TOC folks and CNCF folks definitely help with that as well. But just kind of coming up with some intentional programs to help those folks out, I think would be super beneficial to this group. We also, especially in contributor experience, have a lot of best practices to share, especially as it relates to governance operations, which I call sort of the transparency vehicles, things like Zoom and YouTube and how to automate those. And CNCF does a great job with getting us the keys to those cars. And now what? That's usually up to the communities. So this is where that gap kind of comes in with contributor experience, with figuring out some of that automation and how to make maintainers' lives easier so they're not uploading SIG meetings every day and things along those lines. The other thing, go ahead and Amy and swap. Yeah, there you go. The other thing is, who is this going to benefit? We just talked about the end user community, for instance. But this can also benefit CNCF projects. So for instance, we were just talking about the sandbox. And certain criteria points to graduate out of the sandbox. And I see a lot of confusion there around what it means to have company diversity. And there are things that we can set up early on and help maintainers with, I think, where they can understand that a little bit better and have some processes in place and things like that that would help them think about that ahead of time. And then of course, the NCF SIGs at a sort of meta level. Excuse me. Sort of at a meta level, where we can help out with organizational structures, terminology, the definition of a contributor, for instance, and things like that at a very high level. The one thing that I did want to call out, especially as out of scope and the charter is linked inside of the slide right here, is the actual day-to-day operations. That's what we do do, the day-to-day operations in Kubernetes at that SIG level. But that's where the work is being done for that project. So for this SIG in particular, this SIG would really work on things like researching best practices for, say, contributor guides, best practices on running open meetings, outreach strategies, contributor growth to bot or not to bot. As far as GitHub is concerned, we could probably even get a GitHub collective of maintainers together, things like that. Does anybody have any questions on where my ideas were flowing with this and mission and who the stakeholders are and things like that? All right. Amy, next slide. So this is just the beginning phases, obviously. This isn't me asking for a vote or anything along those lines. This is I would love to build up and down the charter. The charter right now is extremely broad. I won't lie to you. It's broad because I just wanted to make sure that I'm hitting a lot of the use cases that we currently have at the CNCF ecosystem level. However, I think it's extremely, extremely, extremely important that we pair the charter down. The one thing that I have learned in two and a half years with Kubernetes is focus is important because there's shiny objects everywhere. And this SIG would be SIG shiny objects. As you can see in the charter, and if you want, I can share my screen with a charter. We can go through some of those items. But as you can see with a charter, pretty much is everything that would cover a contributor for the most part. So the biggest first step, I think, once the SIG is formed and approved and everybody is cool with it, is the discovery pieces so that we can pair down. So within the first three months, it was sort of the operation focus, operation discovery, and then get some very clear end goals and then have maybe even Boston, BostonCubeCon as a good place to deliver on one of those goals. So there is a doodle poll in the slides for your interest. Again, I think what we work on in this SIG really has to do with two things that I'd like to, again, pair down, one of them being the focus and the priorities from discovery, but the second thing is who shows up to do the work. That obviously an open source really determines your priorities. So this is actually a great way to get a lot of your other folks involved in upstream, too. So my background is definitely untraditional. I know a lot of people in Kubernetes contribute their experience. Also some untraditional background. So if you have folks that you're employers, project managers, product folks, whoever, and they currently deal with humans and working with human processes and automation, this is kind of a good SIG for them to get involved and help us out at an ecosystem level. And yes, I'd love to pontificate over this name because CNCF SIG Contributex will absolutely get confused with contributor experience at the Kubernetes level. There's some things that I was thinking about like SIG Community Strategy or something. I think name confusion is probably one of the things that lead us the most to things not getting adopted and growth and stuff just because of confusion. Yeah, I know, I see Matt in chat that said SIG Project Contributors. Yeah, at one point last night, I was even like SIG Contributors, SIG Humans, like. And I thought about SIG Governance as well, but I know that there's another governance term in engineering and technology. So I didn't necessarily want to get that conflated as well, but governance would obviously be a piece here. And I know that CNCF also provides governance council too. So figuring we could all work together on that too. But that's it for me really. No, thank you, Paris. I know that one of the things that projects really struggle with and I'm seeing it in chat as well is being able to talk about like, how do we get new contributors? And it feels like this particular group is really going to be like, you know, a good focus for that. Can you speak toward the scope of that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's if that's what we decide in discovery, that can be one of the major working groups, ideally here, if anybody on the line is familiar with Kubernetes. In this SIG, you have sub-projects, which in my opinion equate to like, your PMO office running programs and like the sub-projects or your programs. In this case, these would be like high-level working groups, discussion groups who would work on similar kind of chunked out work. So like one working group could be, you know, contributor guide and contributor documentation and the other one could be outreach strategies and contributor recruitment and things like that. So, you know, I'm definitely happy to form and put some organization around anything that the group thinks is priority. Liz, anything from your side? Yeah, sounds like there's plenty of people interested. There's people volunteering names. I think you're going to have no problem recruiting some folks to help you out with this, Paris. And I'm super excited about it. I think this is one of the really important things that we can help the projects with. So, yeah, gross outreach contributors, contributor experience. Thank you, Liz. Yeah, we'll figure it out. So take the doodle poll, y'all. I did put, I think it was like a week plus. So I think the meeting is the last week of January because I wanted to still make sure that we get the rounds of, get the rounds of the word out and stuff like that. Just want to make sure everybody knows that wants to participate. Matt was just asking if the vote will require waiting for the new TOC, yes, it will. But that won't take long. And, you know, you can have everything prepared and ready to go so that the vote goes really quickly. Our previous stigs have been like a three week kind of vote open process. So, I'm not worried. We'll be able to take things off probably like February 4th. Other questions? All right, so we could spend another 39 minutes. As somebody said, like Richard said, we could be like shutting the name for another 39 minutes, but I suspect that's not what we want to do. We got anything else on the slides or is that? That is it. That is it. That is an incredibly fast, but hopefully valuable TOC meeting. Has anybody got anything else they wanted to raise today? Just a very quick question. I believe we were going to try and set up a meeting with some of the talk and some of the sick chairs around some of the processes and things like that. And I think there was a doodle poll that was circulated around. I was just wondering whether we got anywhere with that. Yes, we have definitely gotten place with that. I'm looking at being able to do a meeting probably tomorrow or Thursday. Thank you for the reminder. Ah, cool. OK. Tomorrow's not going to give people a lot of time to prepare, but OK. That's OK. This is not a conversation. He's like a whole bunch of preparation. It's really just a gathering space. So I'm hoping we'll be OK with that. OK. Other pieces that came up was the CNCF annual report will be published later today. That came from Chris. So watch for that. Great. And I think the transparency reports from KubeCon went out a week or two ago as well, didn't they? So it's a lot of reading material from the CNCF. Cool. Any last takers? Or OK, wonderful. I think we are closed for today. Thank you very much, everyone. All right, good to see you all. Bye. Bye. Bye, everyone.