 Okay, we're back here live in Portland, Oregon for the OpenStack Summit. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE.com. This is the SiliconANGLE Wikibon theCUBE, our flagship program. We'll go out through the events, extract the ceiling from the noise. Go to SiliconANGLE.com for the reference point in innovation, tech innovation, emerging tech trends, and disruption in the enterprise. And my next guest is Dekel Tenkel from Cloud Foundry, which is now part of the Pivotal Project, Pivotal Initiative, whatever you want to call it. It's a spin out from VMware. Paul Moritz, the whole team is spinning out. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you, thank you for having me, John. So, big news with VMware spinning out the Pivotal Green Plum seed as a variety of other assets spring. Essentially, moving out the cloud and the developer framework that Paul Moritz originally put out in 2010, when he presented the stack at VMworld, 2010. We were there live as our first year at theCUBE. We covered that. The world's changed. Obviously, we've converged infrastructure, big data, all these cool things are happening at the infrastructure level with VMware, EMC, et cetera. But now you guys are out on your own company, separate new company. Everyone's got stock ops. There's also some employees out there. You're part of that team. James Waters, who is part of the Clouderati, is also out there with you guys. It's prime time in the cloud. Yeah, we're very excited about this. This is actually, to me, my background is I spent a lot of years in doing J2E middleware stuff and then doing some big data stuff. And to me, it's like dream come true. It's all kind of converging together like a single platform for PaaS and big data. It's really exciting. The interesting thing about Pivotal, this new company is that you got a lot of resources. You got a great executive team in Paul Moritz. He's a tools guy, gets software, understands what's going on. Worked with Pat Gelsinger at VMware, so he knows the game. Now you're out on your own. It's like a super-funded startup. It's not like the normal startup activity where you got to do the blocking and tackling. Everyone's working hard on the little things you're up and running as an organization in the middle of this transformation with the cloud. Cloud operations, automation, all those cool things. And here at OpenStack, the conversation is around how to get people to the data center to be transformed using the cloud. Obviously, in the conversation, all about Amazon Web Services. Now you got OpenStack. Now you got Cloud Foundry. It's a brutal marketplace, but it's an opportunity. Yeah, so we had, it's pretty exciting to be here. We had a standing room-only session when we talk about our integration to OpenStack. And it's basically, we see Cloud Foundry is a pass, right? So it's a platform as a service that sits on top of infrastructure as a service, such as OpenStack, and really focus on giving developers what they want, which is to just do code and not plumb infrastructure, not metal with web servers, app servers, VMs. They just want to do code, be productive. And that's what we've been hearing from customers. So I was, last week, I was in a whole week selling Cloud Foundry on the East Coast and like, what this big enterprise wants is they want for their developers to be more productive. They just want their developers to be able to push code. Just take a war file, you know, push it. Let's talk about that. Because what you're basically saying, this is the DevOps world, okay, it's a mindset. It's a new shift over mindset for the process and the people. And these enterprises have legacy. So what are you hearing from customers as the number one, two, three things that's on their mind right now? As they look to the road ahead, they want Cloud. They want it fast. You can't just accelerate the Cloud so fast. You've got to, you know, take baby steps, but you know, private Cloud here, go to a little public Cloud there. What are you guys hearing? And what's Cloud Foundry doing to present that? So the number one pain point we hear from customers is, again, this idea of productivity and agility. We want our developers to be more productive. Our developers are spending too much time not doing code and too much time meddling with infrastructure and middleware. We want our developers, so we had this big meeting with one of, with a big retail on the East Coast and, you know, he was just like, let, get me to a point where my developer can just push a war file. I don't want them to do all the other stuff. I just want them to build great apps. And this is, I think, where Cloud Foundry, specifically Cloud Foundry that is deployed on-prem, can really change the game. And when you think about it, Cloud Foundry also brings you the ideas of portability. So you're not locking yourself into a single infrastructure when you're buying into that PaaS model. Or as we like to say, when you choose your PaaS, you don't choose your Cloud, right? So you can actually move apps between environments without changing them. What I love about the key was we get tweets, public tweets, sometimes private tweets. I got a private tweet from a reader, listener, watcher, whatever you want to call our audience. It says, so, does the infrastructure not matter? Will pivotal customers get benefits from running on a VMware cloud or is infrastructure irrelevant? No, I wouldn't say infrastructure is irrelevant. Absolutely not. I think we have a best in class deployment of Cloud Foundry on vSphere as well as other infrastructures. And we're definitely leveraging the power of vSphere and the infrastructure does matter. I'm just, the thing is that you want to be able to move your applications when you choose to do so from one infrastructure to the other. You cannot lock yourself in to a single infrastructure all the way. When you talk to the big enterprise clients, what are they saying? I mean, obviously the pain points are they want the cloud. Is it a cultural issue for them and the people? Is it process compliance? Is it, what are the key threshold issues in getting them to use past, getting them to use Cloud Foundry? So, there is a couple of things, right? The first thing is there is this idea of being more agile and having agility processes within the enterprise. And part of Pivotal is a company called Pivotal Labs, which is the best in the world, probably in running agile processes. And this is great. I mean, getting to see those guys working together is really awesome. But you kind of need platforms that go along with that, right? So you combine the agility of your developers with this agility of your platforms. So one idea and one big pain point that we hear from customers is how do I move between environments? How do I move between my dev environment to my QA environment to my staging environment? So we hear these stories where we are, yeah, we're getting into agile processes and we are, you know, getting into a great agility, but then we have to wait three weeks until IT sets up the next environment. So all of the next QA environment. So all of this agility is kind of, you know, going to- Not agile. So you need this combination. So the developers are running faster than the infrastructure guys. Is that what you're saying? What I was saying is you need the agility processes to meet agile platforms that are agile. So you need both of these. Cloud Foundry really lets you kind of, we call it like if you look at the target command of Cloud Foundry, right? This ability to target different clouds and you target your dev environment and then you target your QA environment and you just push your application and you didn't change the code between those environments. And that's what makes you, that's kind of, and you can combine it with your CI system. So one of our, you know, big customers were actually combining this idea of Jenkins and Cloud Foundry together to move apps between environments. So it comes together. And I think that's kind of the power of agility. It's the developer processes plus environments that you can move between. And the key here is the obstruction needs to be in the right place, right? And that's kind of what Paz and what we call open Paz. So you can move between- What is an open Paz? Open Paz means that you can move, you don't choose your Paz when you choose your cloud. That's what open Paz means. So you're not locking yourself into a single infrastructure. You can have a choice of frameworks, a choice of services, and most importantly, a choice of cloud. So you can have your Cloud Foundry run on a micro cloud in your laptop here or on a private environment or on a public environment. What's the big misconception for this cloud war amongst the competitors and the landscape out in the marketplace? Because obviously everyone knows Amazon and now you got Cloud Foundry and you got OpenStack. What's the biggest misconception that you hear often that you have to kind of explain to people about kind of what's really happening? Well, I think one of the issues with cloud is all of these terminology is really confusing, right? So when you're saying to people, you are a Paz, so they're saying, okay, so you give us infrastructure. So it's kind of defining where are you on the stack. So usually the misconception is I need to explain, Cloud Foundry really sits on top of infrastructure as a service. It is not an infrastructure as a service. It's this Paz layer that allows you to run on different infrastructures of service. So it's run on top of Amazon. It runs on top of OpenStack. It run on top of vSphere. We had Diane Muleron. She's from Red Hap. It's also a contrived at Silicon Angle. And she was, we call her the past girl because she's really into. I know Diane very well. She's great. She's a great person. She's a good writer too. But is it the same argument we've had with the hypervisor where it's not about the hypervisor in the cloud? That debate's kind of over now and now it's about the bigger picture about the data center and software-defined data center if you will or whatever you want to call it. Is the same kind of logic applied to Paz? It's not so much, you don't have to choose your Paz. You just say go with wherever you are on the stack. Is that what you're saying? I would say the big difference is that Paz talks about a different value proposition. It's this idea of making developers build apps faster, be more productive, get with their apps, focus on code and that's a different message than how do you deal with infrastructure? What kind of optimization are you doing? So when we're talking about Cloud Foundry and that's actually what's really fun for me is this is the pain we're hearing from customers. So customers are not telling us we want you to automate some stuff in our infrastructure. They're telling us help us mix our developers more productive. So that's the message of Paz. It's this higher level of abstraction that really takes away all the middleware components and the infrastructure components and lets developers push code. And I keep coming back to this great quote from the customer last week. It's like, just let me deploy the war file. Let my developers push a war file. Don't force me for them to kind of start a VM, start a web server, start an app server, you know. You wouldn't extract that away. Yeah. Extract that complexity away. That's what we're trying to do. That's what Cloud Foundry does. It subtracts that complexity away. Talk about Pivotal. Okay, so this is the big news. Everyone wants to know what's happened and tell us some stories around what's happening with Pivotal that you can talk about us. You can't talk about all the secrets about funding, all that good stuff. Or if you can share it, what's going on with Pivotal that you think people should know about? I would say wait for our, we have a big launch party coming up in a few weeks. On the 24th? Yeah. Go to our website, gopivotal.com. Register for that. You'll hear all about it. We're very excited. It's going to be a great party. We're very excited. What's your vision for next year? What's going to happen next year? In your mind's eye, from a personal perspective, not so much Pivotal, but like you've seen this movie, you've been living the movie here with Cloud and now with the Pivotal project, you're in a new position. What's going to happen over the next year? What do you envision taking place in this community and then in Cloud in general? So I'm from a personal angle. I'm really, as I said, I've been in the kind of big data world and in the middle world. And I had my share of 30,000 lines of Apache config files. So I definitely love the PaaS abstraction and the ease and this idea of developer productivity. And I also like the fact that big data is now becoming part of the conversation with developers. So it's not only this data analytics guys, it's like how developers can build apps that leverage big data. And I hope this is to me the promise of Pivotal how we bring all these things together to one platform. Okay, DeKal, thank you for coming on theCUBE. That's Cloud Foundry, the new company Pivotal initiative. Pivotal, that's the name. Pivotal, just Pivotal. Paul Morris leading the charge. Go pivotal.com, go register for our launch event. It's going to be fun. Okay, you got the plug in there. Okay, we'll be right back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events, extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE. Go to siliconangle.com and wikibond.org for free research, free content. We'll be right back here at the OpenStack Summit for the exclusive coverage here in Portland, Oregon for the changing world of cloud enterprise service providers. We're here for three days. Come back shortly with our next guest after this short break.