 I want to tell you how I got started with this some almost 40 years ago. I was a first lieutenant in Vietnam, working night shift, taking care of patients, and a young man who had been severely injured was in the recovery room and he said please can I talk to you and he's the first thing he said to me was please understand and believe me this happened to me it's okay put the lights up it you know they can see it well enough and so when I talked to him he said okay and he started to tell me about this experience he had when he was injured and I had no idea what it was this 1969 I'd never heard of it I'd never read about it nothing had been written about it in 1969 but I also could see that he was intensely emotional about this and that this was really really important to him and of course what I came to find out later was it was a pretty typical near-death experience but we didn't know that Raymond Moody didn't write the first book about it until 1975 the term near-death experiences is not really accurate anymore but when Raymond was doing his work in research they were all cardiac arrest patients who actually had almost died or were near-death what we've come to find out in the 40 years since then that you could be sick you could have had a near-drounding you know we'll talk about other things but you don't necessarily have to be near-death so today what I want to do is give you a good definition talk about some of the characteristics and after-effects a couple of things about what's going on now and provide some guidelines for your practice because this is not being handled in the VA if they go to the VA typically and try to tell people about their near-death experience they are put on medication and told them that they're bipolar and it's not happening in the hospitals it's not happening anywhere we get them showing up at our organization all the time because they're just trying to tell people what happened to them and they're not believed and that is why it is so important for the DAV and all people in practice that see veterans to be able to support them it is a lifelong experience this isn't something that happens and goes away once this happens they have a whole bunch of characteristics during it and then they have a lot of after-effects that kind of are cumulative they might happen right right in the beginning or some might not happen for 20 years later but I can tell you they will talk to you and tell you the exact same discussion they had 40 years ago those of you got a newsletter that's our most current newsletter this is a young chopper pilot from Vietnam I met him last year at my own Vietnam reunion and he started telling me about his injury because he was brought to the hospital where I was stationed and after I talked to him for a few minutes I said his name was Mike also I said Mike you had a near-death experience he said well I tried to tell the doctors about it but they didn't want to hear about it and he had a severe back of his head blown off and he went on to Walter Reed and was under care for a couple of years and nobody wanted to hear about it and so I said you need to write this down and you need to come to our conference and tell people about it and so he will be September 3rd through 6th we have our first and our 40th annual conference and he will be for the first time talking about his experience and he also was a chaplain he was called to do that after his NDE which is quite typical of people changing professions and going to alturistics careers so we'll talk a little bit a near-death experience is when and I like to call some kind of clinical crisis had a bad fever their blood pressure fell out they almost drowned you know they were very sick if they were in an operation I mean there's lots of different circumstances there's about 15 universal these are universal characteristics happen around the world doesn't matter what religion what anything that you have these are all the same characteristics we're particularly talking about veterans and these usually happen during combat during training you know sometime while they were on active duty doesn't really matter but I have been specifically trying to get that more support for veterans because they're so frightened to talk about it because they think it'll affect their benefits and if they start talking about this they're afraid somebody will think that they're crazy which is exactly what's happened unfortunately who has NDE's everybody anybody any age any gender any culture any religion or lack of religion we have atheists and agnostics any social group so it and there's none of this nice people have nice experiences and bad people have bad experiences that's not the way it happens just a few things and these are old I would love for the Gallup poll to update these in 97 they estimated there were 15 million experiencers does not include children does not include the elderly the incident for children who have near drowning that's the most common thing for children is 70% of children who have near drownings have NDE's there was a 13-year study of a Dutch physician who studied cardiac arrest and he found about 12% and there's some more current information that's about 18% had NDE's during his study I can tell you I have talked to 10 people and I've talked to thousands of people and the first lecture I ever gave many many years ago I took in your death experiencer with me after that I never have because I can tell you 10% of any room full of people will have NDE's and it just they might not want to talk about it they might not you know show that initially and maybe they've never really understood it many times after I get done they'll say oh I had that but I was just trying to explain it away so very very interesting with that these are some of the circumstances combat extreme trauma a heart attack near drowning most frequent cause for children electrocution we have a orthopedic surgeon in upstate New York who was electrocuted and post electrocution he was able to write classical music and play it never played the piano before in his life has many many other things that happen he's a practicing orthopedic surgeon today so we're starting to see the physicians having these experiences and many of them didn't believe it they didn't understand it until they had the experience themselves traumatic brain injury difficult cause the soldiers who come and see you have had traumatic brain injury and many times this when they try to talk about it is just discounted as part of their injury certainly accidents allergic reactions people who have a serious illnesses extreme distress of some kind and having surgery they happen during surgery and all of these things are potential areas where people have had these experience characteristics I'm gonna tell you about 15 characteristics that we typically hear about and you might have one you might have three or you could have all 15 of them but these are universal characteristics people talk about watching from the ceiling they're in the OR they're in the ER they had a heart attack they were combat had combat issues and all of a sudden they find themselves watching from the ceiling their resuscitation and they're trying to figure that out what am I dead in my what is going on but it's a separation from their physical body whatever people are comfortable with it's their soul it's their spirit it's something and they are looking at things around and can travel wherever they want we have some very interesting stories about that difficult to describe no language really available to describe the things they're feeling or seeing meeting spiritual beings some people meet spiritual beings on the other side and some feel like the light is a loving living component of being a spiritual being and they're surrounded by love and and those kinds of things not everybody has this aspect of it but some people do a bright beautiful light is part of an experience for some people that they see and many of them talk about it being the most loving the most content the most peaceful being they've ever felt and it's it's alarming apparently not knowledge of nature they know why the world is connected how all things are connected to each other they know how we're connected to the trees and the grass and they look at all this and they get a lot of knowledge anything they ever wondered about they can just think about it and get that knowledge while they're on the other side so to speak so this is just a picture of how they kind of are going out of their physical body being greeted by a religious figure we have people that talk to us about angels you know a lot of discussion about that it is a very powerful light a very beautiful light it's very bright but not noxious and people talk about being surrounded with it I've had people tell me I you know I I just want to stay there I want to be surrounded by that light it was pure love I didn't want to come back very interesting because as a nurse I have resuscitated people and they were really angry and so now we understand why are you angry because you took me out of this beautiful loving place and now I'm in this wreck of a body and so makes make sense now there is another characteristic called a life review and people will talk about being in a room and there are all these pictures like TVs everywhere and on these pictures are incidents or things from their life that they weren't really very proud of and they will experience what happened maybe they bullied somebody in high school or maybe they stole something from the store or something you know they're all these different incidents and then they will talk about how they experienced it from the other person's point of view so they're going to experience it as being bullied and understand the consequences and feelings about that very very strong things happen during this life review and so I'm sure you can all think of people who none of us are very proud of and have done some horrible things and I always think well when the life review comes around this is not going to be a pretty picture for them they will sense a border or a limit to where they can go and it's sort of like if I can get past those trees I can stay here but many times they will talk about I was moving toward the trees or I was trying to be you know part of this and all of a sudden I was just sent back and not that they wanted to go back but they were sent back they some people talk about a sensation of flying through a tunnel with a white light at the end and they're trying to reach the right the white light some people talk about people there to guide them family members deceased family members other spiritual beings it is a place where all knowledge exists so anything they're interested in or want to know about they can find out about there they will find out about it and while they're out of their body they witness events that happen in the OR in the waiting room and they are able to talk to people and say you said exactly this while I was being resuscitated in the ER or while I was having surgery the doctor said this and so they have they frequently have really many different witnesses that can really talk about exactly what they saw and then be supportive of that this is the limits the tunnel people talk about in a lot of different ways and going through a tunnel and feeling like they're just flying it is an exhilarating period of time these people after they have this experience they will remember it in detail some people say oh you had a dream you don't remember dreams after a while these experiences they will remember in detail for many many years for a lifetime once again the sense of love and light and many times they will talk about a city of lights you can talk to children I actually have a nephew who is an experiencer which I recognized when he was 18 months old and and he would talk to me about that I'd say you know he said oh yeah I talked to God I go well what what does God tell you and he said oh I read different things and when he was four he woke up one morning and he went to my brother he'd never really been religious of any kind most of these people may get more religious but many times get less religious and more spiritual in terms of there but he said I want you to he got it my brother up and said I want you to take me to church buy me a white shirt and take me so I can see what this God thinks about four years old and so my brother did and for a while he had all kinds of books and things and when he started talking to the Jehovah Witness and they'd run away then we knew he was probably on to something there and he would stay with that but he used to talk about the city of lights the light beings all of these things they have heightened perceptions of noise of visions of smell all kinds of heightened perfect perceptions of things very difficult for them and we'll talk a little bit about how things could seem to be really wonderful but could be difficult they while they're there they have a sense of all knowledge and they know everything they want to know they do not bring all of this back children bring back the first way you can and there's an article in the newsletter there many times they will start using whole sentences or vocabulary that's really to advance for them and have an understanding of things when Matthew was maybe two years old not much older than he went to get his first haircut and the hairdresser was trying to talk to him to keep him entertained I guess so he wouldn't be afraid and she said well what do you want to do when you grow up Matthew and he said oh I'm gonna be a minister and she said oh really and you know nobody had heard that before and so when she got done she said to my brother did you know Matthew's gonna be a minister now he is little and my brother Kevin said I had no idea I never heard about this man and he said well would you think I was gonna be an architect or an illustrator and you know he's just doesn't know what to say because where does he find these words and ever when he was small he would just put these sentences together and he would know these things and and we all were like oh my god it's really interesting what what he really does know many people get a message about their life's purpose this is really important for those people who had attempted suicide and had a near-death experience what we know is those people who attempt to suicide and have a near-death experience and get a sense of not my job to do this and get a sense of what my life what I'm supposed to be doing they're not likely to ever try that again a sense of oneness and interconnectedness really really very close for people to understand this and all of this is if you can imagine all these things are kind of shocking I had a what our generation would call an old brown shoe soldier he called me one day sawed my picture in the paper there was an article about NDE's and this is years and years ago and he said I have to talk to you and he had a ruptured aneurysm and typically those people even if they're sitting on the OR table don't live and he did and he said I'm having all these things happen he said I walk outside I see the birds singing and it's beautiful and I cry I go you know here and I have an understanding of someone and what's going on with it I cry he said I think I'm going crazy I said you're perfectly normal because he had told me enough to know that he wasn't your death experiencer so that interconnectedness is very real and all of these things if you imagine having these and trying to say what's going on with me what if you don't understand it and if you don't have anybody there to help you and say this is a normal event we can find somebody to talk to you light and sound sensitivity as Matthew got older I said to my brother because all the boys in the family are hockey players and I said Matt's not going to want to play hockey it's too violent it's too loud it's too bright and so you need not to push him in that direction and and he didn't want to do it and I said let him pick something that is important to him and at 12 he decided he wanted to be a scuba diver took the exam went through the whole thing which is very difficult and past and has been a scuba diver ever since he's in the Navy now and this is significant because I have been at a luncheon at one of the IAIN's conventions where an ambulance went by and every experiencer at the table immediately covered their ears because that shrill noise was really hurtful and so the whole sound and light thing is a very real thing most of these people become more altruistic in the newsletter Mike was a chopper pilot and then called to ministry and retired as a minister last year they become more joyful acquire laughter and just are all around happier people and as I told Mike if you ever he said he's a hugger if you ever come to an IAIN's convention you can't get out of there without somebody hugging you and you know it's all about the love it's about we want to share the the love with you more creative interested in subjects not previously known a guy from upstate New York who was in training for a cycle Olympic being a cyclist and that's all he'd ever cared about that's all he ever did didn't do much with academics or any of that said he'd never read an entire book in his life and all of a sudden he had a car fall on his chest and after and had a near-death experience and after that he started scribbling little equations and people's names and he's very interested in all these different kinds of things and so he went to the library and he said to the lady do you know anybody by the name of Max flank and you see this equation you know where that might be well it was in quantum physics about a book on quantum physics and he's the father of quantum physics and every equation he had was absolutely accurate he just didn't know what it was and so a lot of people become very interested in spiritual things and quantum physics and other kinds of things another after effect is most people who have had NDE's are not afraid of dying they no longer fear death they feel like they know what it's going to be like and that's that's it so they're not afraid of dying they become more spiritual they really may be less religious they abstract easily and really understand things differently they have a little time management problem so if you want to get something in the military or something done right on time a near-death experiencer is probably not the one to ask to do it very generous and these are after effects you say well what could be wrong with that until you see a near-death experiencer who was walking home and there was a homeless lady with her child he had just been paid he said I have food at home you don't and gave his entire check away to this woman and child well her you know his wife was not real excited about that it so yes it's important to be generous but you know all of these things have to be balanced very much expand expanded concepts of love and when these people come back many times they are so focused on a purpose and their relationships with their family are very different because now they understand a universal love they understand their family love but they also know that it it's a concept that's bigger than just them it does challenge to maintain old relationships and so you have people things so you have people that you know it's difficult for them because they're trying to tell their friends they're trying to tell their family that is a place where you can all intervene and help them because they don't understand it it's much better now 30 years ago when I started when I came home from Vietnam I was absolutely adamant that this was a nursing issue a medical issue all nurses and doctors needed to know about this and they have to be able to support patients who have done this and many I used to teach all the chaplains in the army I also have been invited a lot of the lectures I've done had been initiated from chaplains in different military hospitals or different areas and so they can be very helpful to people to help explain how relationships change and one of the things that they're very convinced of is what their life purpose is now and they are really focused on what they want to do which can I know one example of a couple of soldiers who came home and started a not-for-profit and they are there every day every week really doing and their family has pretty much taken second second place to this and I have tried to help them I said you've got to find a balance with this because it will ruin their relationship with their family if they don't try to understand it they have heightened sensations of touch taste smell and texture really important some people have end up over the time having psychic ability well you can imagine how that is confusing for somebody increased interest in learning their thought process changed they are really out there sometimes but have really creative solutions to things very curious their body clocks don't work very well sometimes and they are up when they should be sleeping and all of those things another after effect that we see a lot is they have allergies and they have a lot of sensitivity to drugs to washing soap because it has a lot of toxins in it and they'll have rashes so they have a lot of sensitivity to medication and any other kind of chemical multiple sensing is what it's called they will talk about tasting color or seeing music and it's multiple things that you can imagine if you can do this all of a sudden is very very confusing electrical sensitivity most I'd say at least many near-death experiences have trouble wearing a watch that has a battery in it they buy a new battery it dies they buy another new battery it dies so they have to they eventually figure out how to have solar or mechanical watches we all have electrical sensations around us and I know of some experiences I know of one woman who had three near-death experiences and for years she would set up computers and they'd go all catty wampus when she was near them when we had a conference once at the University of Washington in the hotel there there's about 400 people about 300 of more experiencers and the first thing they said was we have no idea but our entire computer system is just stopped working couldn't find any reason why and we all knew why but we just said well we don't know we don't know what's going on here it was interesting because there were another conference there and some businessmen and I was on the elevator with one of them and he said you know to see this stuff about the near-death conference don't you think those people look good he pretty good for being near-death he thought everybody there was near-death so there's a lot of misunderstanding now we talked about the sensitivity to light and sound really difficult with families if the families don't understand it and they don't have anybody to help them validate this experience with their families many times they will have lower blood pressure so the physical after effects are really important because if you went to the hospital and have a big sensitivity to medication and can't take as much as other people your blood pressure is lower than usual and you have a temperature on normal temperatures 98.6 and if you have a temperature normal that's 96.2 they're not going to understand and they won't recognize when you're in trouble because if you have if your normal temperatures 96.2 and you have a hundred fever which is a low-grade fever you're really sick and they will not know that so there are some sort of some things that are really important less tolerant for medication they can overdose you very easily because you don't have the same tolerance they don't have great tolerance for violence I know a hospital administrator who was a great boxing fan after his near-death experience couldn't watch it kept turn the TV off they don't like anything that's not natural they don't like violence there were a lot of things that he loved prior and now I mean he was constantly getting up and turn the TV off from his family and said I can't watch this we talked about less materialistic they're not interested in money this is a big problem and why many of them are divorced if you have an experience or who was a stockbroker and all about money and all about houses and cars and those kinds of things and he's all of a sudden not about those things don't care about that he wants to study spirituality he wants to look at other things maybe healing and the wife is not down that same page of music still so it becomes a problem and creates a divide for divorce many times just so you know who's working in the area now there is a doctor ebb and Alexander he's a neurosurgeon he thought all of this was poppycock and it was just about the brain dying and he has he went into a coma for seven days and his brain actually was dying and not having any activity and when he recovered and fully recovered which was amazing in itself and he's been now speaking his book is called proof of heaven and was a non-believer and now is out talking to other doctors the other one that there are many of them but dr. Mary Neal is a orthopedic surgeon up in Montana some place she went on a kayak trip in the middle of South America in Brazil in there weren't where there weren't a lot of people and they were starting on a river jaunt there was no place to get off this river until they got to the end somebody with less experience got in her way and she had to go over a falls that she didn't intend to and her kayak went underwater and stuck under the waterfall 10 feet under the water she could not get out she knew how to get out but the pressure of the waterfall and after 30 minutes of this torrent of water both her legs broke and that allowed her to slip out of her kayak of course by this time she was dead and she's floating down the river face down in the water and eventually her friends because they had been looking for but couldn't find her saw her pulled her out of the water and of course they tried to do CPR and it was amazing because she talks about in her book her near-death experience and her going toward the light and and trying to just keep going she had four kids and she said I knew I had these kids I knew I had to take care of them but I knew they were going to be all right and I just wanted to stay in that place but then she has these friends over here yelling at her Mary Mary please breathe please come back and she go back and forth and you know and eventually she went back and took a breath and of course that really invigorated them and then but during her near-death experience she was told that her son would not live to be 18 years old and so imagine coming back with that information and thinking now what do I do about that and of course there's nothing you could do about it and and just in the last couple years she started talking about it there are some really good things on YouTube if you just look at near-death experience and her son did die before he reached his 18th birthday she's still a practicing orthopedic surgeon why these things are difficult for service members they many times see buddies during the incident who were also injured or killed and many times they know who's gonna live and who's gonna die and they see these souls sort of speak there it's very very emotional and personal I know Michael when he started to tell me about his experience and we're talking 40 years later and he's just talking about it he knew exactly the detail and he just had a rush of emotion about how emotional this was they don't they're afraid they think that this might affect their benefits or somebody will say they're crazy if they want to stay on active duty they're worried that this could affect it and they're afraid nobody will believe them and that is terrible for them certainly worried about security clearances those that are still on active duty but and they may not remember the experience but they have all these after effects and they know something happened but they have after effects but don't remember the experience this happens to about 10% or more people they had an incident they have all these after effects but they don't remember the experience doesn't mean they didn't have it they just don't remember it the military is typically in the VA just throwing them in with PTSD people you know and once a month club not going to be helpful or putting them on psychotropic drugs and all kinds of things that are just not helpful for them if addressed correctly they may be able to help themselves in recovery but they have to be able to own the experience support guidelines for all of us are things like listening they just need to talk about it own it they do not need to be preached to to be have some kind of a religious interpretation we at IAINs do not attach any religious interpretations because all religions have these even people who don't believe in an afterlife have these you know in different cultures but the listening is most important not don't judge the experience keep eye contact with these people and provide them with resources we have lots of resources we have groups all over the country we have 44 groups all over the country where people could go and sit on a group and tell about their experience listen to other people get information you can call our headquarters we have people there to talk you know they become a member they get a monthly or quarterly magazine we have lots of resources so that really is important let them tell their story but don't try to analyze it really really important and referring them to IAINs because to many people that I can't tell you the number of people who I've seen and they were near-death experiencers and they had never told anybody and I say please come to our conference because for the first time in your life you're going to feel like your home you don't have to explain it to anybody everybody there all the doctors nurses experience knows it knows what it is you're just going to learn about it and be able to learn different things important to look for clues because you know in the hospital they're going to need somebody and in their life to talk to their families don't assume all clergy because many people assume the clergy should know about this but they don't same with doctors they don't know about it and so that's part of why I'm here today to give you enough information so you'd at least know how to call us and and be able to refer these people to a group or get you some help or whatever it is you might need the patient let them enjoy the experience and encourage them to write it down we talked about listening and of course if they're in the hospital I always encourage nurses to chart it and get patients with a local ions group and be patient with them as they're trying to do this some patients and these are clues some patients will or soldier members say oh I had the strangest dream and then if you really look at them and say you know I'm interested what happened they'll say well it really wasn't a dream I had this experience but they have to see in your eyes that you're willing to listen to them and talk to them they sometimes have this far away look in their eyes and you know like to have lights on not afraid of drawing and many times when they're in a hospital or in a hospice care again another place where you are they are frequently they are coming and going they're coming to the other side and then they're coming back and there is a phenomena known as nearing death awareness in a book by Maggie Kalan and called final gifts and they are near-death experiences and nearing death awareness are different she talks about the end stages of communication with hospice patients but many hospice patients will come and go and and you can just see it I was with my mother when she died and that was my intent to keep her at home and let her be surrounded by loved ones I have totally changed my practice as a nurse about people who were dying and she just she had been up every day until that day and I could tell by the way she looked that this was going to be the day so I called my whole family and everybody came all the kids came they all got in bed with grandma and grandma was a little foggy she'd sort of yeah look at you and then she'd kind of go away for a while but then she looked up and she said bud and I said mom it's dad he's he's coming to get you it's okay you can leave now we're going to be all right you know you go with dad and he's going to take you to the other side and and that was it she just later had back down and smiled and it was over and that I thought was the most loving thing I could do for her as have her family her kids and tell her it's okay it's because so often and especially parents with children who are dying and sometimes with adult don't leave me don't go don't die and you know they're just desperately trying to get out of here and I tell them all the time please be prepared because the minute you walk out of this room they're leaving and you know you need to know that it's not about you it's about what they want and so these are some resources for our organization telephone numbers my personal email and we have another email if you have veterans that want to talk about this but really don't know quite what to do that help it ions org they can write an email to that email and it will come directly to me because a lot of times they don't want it to get mixed up in the general email they want somebody who is a military person who knows what they're talking about and so really important to be able to refer them to somebody get them some help and and we're very very happy to help them because our soldiers are dying they're committing suicide and they're not being helped and many of them have had these near-death experiences and they just want somebody to listen to them and you are the perfect people to be there for them and but you have to be at least knowledgeable enough that these exist there are certain things that happen we have several clergy that belong to ions and you know get newsletters and we have a couple on the board because they offer a different perspective for people so we're really is everybody got that that needs that so we need to be knowledgeable enough to help them nurses doctors clergy most important and they will frequently the disabled vets are going to come and find somebody who maybe now they'll talk to somebody because they've already got retired and they're not quite as afraid but they've got to find somebody who is open to talking about it or you know we do have many cancer patients who are also in hospice and many of you work with hospice so important to know the difference between a near-death and a near-death awareness and helping the family understand what's going on so that is and I could talk for about eight hours and give you 4,000 examples and if you're interested if you go on our web page iands.org there are all kinds of experiences letters from experiences if you go on YouTube and look up near-death experiences several of my lectures 20 years ago I did an interview with a young man during the Cuban Missile Crisis and it really hasn't changed a lot since we did that interview I'm here because I'm supposed to be here and my path obviously was driven in this direction and it happened 40 years ago and I'm still passionate about we need to help these folks and so I'm really happy to answer any questions or give you any references or anything you'd like to ask me yes or mm-hmm and that's yes I'm sure it was a near-death experience and a lot of people then have an ability to converse and pray and get answers and follow their path I I absolutely believe as we're told by some near-death experiences that we make a contract before we come to this world about the lessons that we're going to have and we agree to do it and it might not be our lessons it might be the people we meet their lessons and I I look and say why why was I led to all these different things you have to know that 30 years ago as a young captain I'm preaching to everybody you've got to know about these things well how well do you think that went over and you know they were like she's crazy there's nothing written about this they used to call me the death and dying lady but I was on active duty all those times in the more rank I got the more I made everybody listen to me and you know we just kept going and then many years later all of a sudden it's on television every movie stars had one you know then there's stuff written about it and now it's a pretty common household word the media gets it totally messed up because they will put Jane Seymour who is Dr. Quinn medicine woman has had an NDE and she'll talk about it and the next person they have is a truck driver who ran into a bridge and nearly died but didn't have an NDE and they have them in the same you know experience which they're totally different things so the media doesn't always get it right but they're starting to ask more about it and you'll see more about it and many many people have had near-death experience quite a few movie stars have had them not that we get them to talk too much about it but you'll hear about it occasionally anybody else have a question yes ma'am well in we hear a lot of that it's not unusual of course I've heard hundreds and hundreds of different stories and many of the most interesting ones are from children because they don't have any expectations they you know aren't watching this they just tell you whatever hit I died I went to heaven I saw God he told me this you know very interesting but this one circumstance a lady told me that her mother was in the hospital and she was not expected to live and so they were home and they'd been at the hospital all day they came home and they had a son that was like two years old and all of a sudden they heard him talking in his bed and he's standing up in his crib looking up in the corner talking to his grandmother and saying yes Nana okay you know and he was talking they get a call immediately that she had just died and so you know the spirit can go where it's gonna go and very interesting things happen we had a lady who had a heart attack she was in the ER she feels herself going up and separating from her body she goes out to the waiting room out there is her whole family she can hear and see everything they're doing and her brother comes bashing in and said wouldn't you know she'd have this right now I'm on my way out of town and a business trip and yet he had a yet you know and of course she was resuscitated and he goes in to see her and what do you think the first thing she said to him was she said I heard everything you said you know and she repeated it to him and oh just I mean there are so many interesting stories so this is certainly something that is going to be studying in the past it's a lot of work and consciousness now and we're gonna see more and more of this let's just get this lady here yes people we don't call them negative but we call them frightening frightening experiences we hear very little about them because people are afraid to talk about the positive one so you can imagine how they feel they tend to be sometimes they'll talk about being more isolated or what I've seen I know one person in 40 years who's told me about their experience and it was integrated in a very positive way over the years they have the same characteristics but sometimes they feel lonely and pushed aside and and those kinds of things and so yes people have them we just don't hear about them very often but they tend tend to be integrated over time in the same way yes ma'am yeah one more minute mm-hmm they're they're looking or they will take it you know the minute you leave because the the family is making it too difficult what I tell the family many times I said and a lot of times it's because they think they're going into a black hole someplace and I said this is you know read something about this this is going to be a wonderful experience for them let them go give them guidance let let them have permission to transition and and many of them will then do that children are the hardest parents have a horrible time letting go of children and I once walked in a room where there were kind of holding vigil and I said why don't you go get a cough coffee or something I'll sit here with your son he was like six or so and I said how are things going he said I'm dying and my parents won't let me go and I mean he really knew what was going on he said I want to go and so I did spend some time with those parents because it was very very difficult for them to let go so I think just a minute I want to make sure we get everybody over here so that's I tell them and if I'm in the room you don't have to say it out loud you know they're out there floating around someplace and you just say it's okay go ahead and go and yes ma'am you wanted to say yeah well I I'm not sure what you're talking about if I don't not necessarily know that they need help are you talking about somebody who tells you they had a frightening near-death experience well that's a whole different realm of stuff you're talking mostly PTSD and some of those things and yes they do need help and definitely and it's very helpful to tell people get them on YouTube and let them look at some of the things about near-death experiences because then they know it's not over they know there's there's something beyond us and you know all of that yeah yeah you wanted to say something I would say to them you know I've heard about this experience it's a very normal experience let me give you some I I typically would encourage chaplains to join so they have newsletters and get get other kinds of things and say let me share this with you here's a website you know and give them that information and say there's a lot of people that have had this experience and it can be very joyful and you know go read about it and I think that's what helps people is when they do this extensive reading oh absolutely yes yeah yeah absolutely and for all of you to kind of watch some of this stuff and get knowledgeable yourself because one out of one go we're all gonna die wouldn't it be nice to know what may be on the other side and so you know as you look up some of this stuff and hear some of these things you'll find yourself being able to talk about this and be supportive to that person but as long as you know where to send them that's that's key that happens a lot people wait for different things before they are ready to let go and that's something you should know and help them and sometimes you're looking for what that thing is or what that person is and there's a wonderful book called nearing final gifts and it's about those things and about those communications by Maggie Tallinn and final gifts yeah that's exactly there there are people that are gonna be there to help them transition and you need to encourage them I kind of call it now I mean it's a whole different way of practicing than what I was even taught I talk about being a midwife at the end of life let's shelter them out with love and caring and help the family understand that and have a wonderful transition yes sir yes they are many near-death experiences have premonitions and if you do have some of these a good thing to do is keep a journal and if you're having premonitions write down and then if it happens write down when it happens and but there's quite a bit of written about that on our website yeah just keep reading about it and the more you read about it the more understanding you have and it's very comforting even if you're not a near-death experiencer to know this stuff and to look at you know how these things might help all of us and one of the things I'm taking away from this time is the fact that it could be misdiagnosis PTSD oh absolutely absolutely disabled American veterans guys you know I wonder how many of our veterans are walking out here and they're taking the drugs because yeah there's not that understanding of what this we had a young Marine walk into our office his job is computer specialist and he went to the VA to try to talk about his NDE they told him he was bipolar they put him on all this medication he couldn't function and he came and wanted to know he said can you help me and we certainly were able to get him off all the medication we just acknowledged his experience and we talked about it and you know before six months or so he was back to work the other thing I would say is children have these experiences a lot they're going to give you one time they'll say to the parents I died I went to heaven I saw my spiritual brother and when they talk about you know fantasy children or what people call it they are not they're spiritual children and these kids if you don't acknowledge what they say they won't talk about it anymore and they're going to be so in isolation over the years if a parent or a teacher does not understand because the kids come back with great skills verbal skills very creative but they kind of function out of the box and so they're going to have things that really need parents to be able to support them and provide them an environment where they can be what they need to be this time this is very informed and thank you for those chaplains and those that are not chaps but you're here for information you're not a submitter expert in this field what we've done today what miss Diane has done today is giving you the characteristics to look out for so that as now you have a better understanding you can now get that better in the appropriate help my concern is we've probably got too many betters out here that are being drugged and don't need to be all they have to do is talk about it but you're not a subject matter extra but now that you're armed with this information that miss Diane has given you you can recognize some of the things that say hey because what do chaplains do we develop relationships and we want people to talk to us and when you're hearing one of those or multiple 15 characteristics that she's laid out there you know sounds to me like you have an experience did you have and then open that ball or that break down that wall in that door conversation and then go from there and then if you have determined that's what it is call miss Diane you got her email yeah you've got my email you've got the organization's telephone number yeah and we will help you it's really helpful if you're really interested in this if you like join as a basic member and you'll get all these updates about conferences about newsletters and stuff and it keeps you informed about what the latest thing on NDE's is and going on we will be meeting in September in San Antonio Texas the third through the sixth and I am pushing for veterans to come offering disabled veteran scholarships to come so if if you have some out there we want these people to be able to come share their experiences and everything's on our website all you need is the ions org and the conference stuffs there and if there's any issues just the staff will give you my number and get a hold of me well I'm hoping in this environment that we're in right now is PTSD wasn't recognized by the federal government as a medical issue to what 10-15 years ago and I'm hoping by the reason why Diane's here and her team is because when I got wind of this to Linda and we talked a little bit I said no one talks about that I don't even know what what you know what experiences these folks go through and I thought would benefit you at this at this convention giving you an additional information and so now hopefully we've given the word out you have a better understanding of what's going on and maybe 10 to 15 years from now we'll be able to bring this to the forefront of the medical profession and in our profession as chaplains and folks that have a better understanding of this and we just may see a turnaround and maybe less restrictive drugs being issued to these veterans because in every case that you talked about that I heard is that when they when they finally got with you and your team and this and these resources six months later they were okay they come off the drugs now it's not saying that everybody's going to come off those drugs there may be a different reason while they're on some drugs but it really is very helpful if they gotta get an opportunity to talk about their experience and it takes years for things to change and so and I'm very happy to come out to states or other conventions that you have and talk about this and continue this because I started out in the early seventies there was not one book written and I'm out there talking and talking about this and half the people thought I was crazy and now here we are 40 years later there are thousands of books people telling their story lots of stuff on YouTube and lots of stuff now I get calls every week about documentaries that are being done I've done four four radio shows in the last month so people are talking about it people are trying to get a hold of it and do something with it yeah it's important because it's you know once again children out of the mouth of babes many times come those things and parents question whether they should believe what they're talking about and they really should well what I want to do ladies and gentlemen go ahead and wrap this up and this was very very good Diane we didn't talk much you know in the in the bridging the gap and getting her coordinated here I'm glad whoever told you how to get here God bless them let me know I don't thank them but chaplains I'm gonna go back to your responsibility you know talk about a little black book right chaplain should have a little black book and then we'll finish with this in that black book that you should be carrying should be the DAP is great health and veterans but maybe your chapter is not financially well enough often you can cut a check to help a veteran that is suffering or can't pay the rent okay you need to know in your communities non-profit organizations or other organizations that can assist you in getting that better than their family care and you if you have a little black book because I do for my community and it lists off and they don't have to be DAP DAP's primary place I go I want I want to be the forefront but I understand that not everybody's well off at their chapter then you should know where you can take that better in his family within your community to get the help that they need okay so carry a little black book you need to put Diane's information in your black book right now okay and then from that long before I understand this is that you're not a subcontinent or expert maybe more SME in certain areas but guys I don't expect chaplains to be subcontinent or experts in everything I am not okay but I'm smart enough to know that I have points of contact that I can refer to when I recognize the issue to get them where they need to go that's your business 98% of my ministry you know what 98% of my ministry is it should be 90% of yours listening and Diane brought that up on a slide you just need to be listening okay and sometimes with my public personality I get to talk in and yakking I'm not listening very well so I have to pull back sometimes okay but you have to know the situation when to be bubbly and personally and happy and joyful because I like bringing joy in people's lives I like the smiles on their faces and then when there's that moment that you as a chaplain need to step back for just a moment and say aha talk talk to me 90% of your ministry should be listening if you're doing all the talking as a chaplain you're not ministry at all I guarantee you're not so take the time to listen that other 1% use them talk to someone about DAB if you've not been a service officer let me tell you something about that experience when you become a service officer you get the background of the DAB's mission and you can apply that to the ministry that you have and I was a service officer for about four years gave me great understanding how the DAB works the VA works and now I bring that into ministry because I need to but I'm going to 98% listen and then there's that 1% the other that that equals out to the 100% there's that other 1% where you're actually giving spiritual advice all right it's not always giving out your point of view about your faith it's not about that it's about listening developing relationships and then that opens doors for you to walk into because now they feel comfortable with you and chaplain should always make those that come around them feel comfortable okay but this information of black books start if you don't have a black book start doing it you're not a sub-member expert anything you may be in some things but I don't expect you to be a sub-member expert don't be it's too much information my head would explode I wouldn't go crazy just trying to know everything I don't want to know yes one other comment though about it too is sometimes too sometimes you need to step back yourself to have like yourself time to reiterate yourself because if you get too many I got sometimes I've got to get lots of different friends and all of us are all in that same boat and every if especially kind of their leadership and they expect a yes or no answer but you can't get you know they're going to some of those people that expect the yes answer and you can't get it to them they'll explode all right well don't don't be giving everybody the next article am I okay but you know my faith teaches me that we're supposed to be self reflection right you're supposed to be self-reflection I think one thing that the chaplain staff that's so important besides listening is just availability to hear what they're saying absolutely because sometimes you can be listening and you hear nothing because you're so good with your whole stuff absolutely did you all hear that chaplain's availability not only was you listen but make yourself available if you're if you're racked up in life's terminal how are you gonna make yourself available to someone who really wants to talk to you and remember what I said it isn't about your education it isn't about your certifications I don't care how many certificates you have hanging on the wall all I require of you as a chaplain is you've got to care and caring is making yourself available and listening that's how people know oh I love that eye contact too that you put up there make the eye contact my it was a lesson I learned in my own marriage and my wife always knew I wasn't listening when I didn't make eye contact with her and she said dover and every time she called me dover my intent is when I focus on my own I knew I was in trouble okay oh and speak common language I'll explain when I was in the military and driving down the road on the interstate I started giving her all these army acronyms I just started talking about army so you know pdq rft whatever the case may be I mean I just I just unloaded on what she was a promotions manager for Fox 54 television station in Columbus and when I got done you know unloading on her she came back and started giving me all the television jargon I mean I was I looked at her and I was like what did you just say and she gave me that figure says exactly you can't communicate develop relations unless you're speaking the common language okay don't be so spiritual you're no earthly good guys okay stick with the common that's how you develop your relationships with that said I appreciate everyone being here if you want to stay and talk to Miss Diana her team you're more than welcome to okay but I will tell you that next in a land if I'm elected if you're traveling again we're gonna be talking about disaster relief that's a lot I've already got planned in the future we're gonna be talking about disaster relief because we've had a lot of them all right with that said thank you guys for everything and thanks for coming