 Good morning and welcome to the seventh meeting in 2016 of the SPPA Committee. Can I remind everyone to switch mobile phones and other devices to silent as they may interfere with the broadcasting? The first meeting on our agenda this morning is cross-party groups, and as such we will take evidence from Gillian Martin MSP in a proposed CPG in Women in Enterprise and then from Jamie Greene MSP and proposed CPG on LGBTI+. I would like to welcome Gillian Martin to the committee this morning and invite the member to make an opening statement about the proposed group. Thank you very much, convener. The Women in Enterprise cross-party group aims to establish a forum for the sharing of experiences and information on the position of women in enterprise in Scotland. We want to enable discussion and debate on the gender gap in enterprise and seek solutions on how that might be tackled and bring partners together with an interest in women in enterprise to develop a collaborative approach towards working together. Developing women in enterprise is acknowledged as critically important for Scotland's economy. There is currently a gap in the amount of women setting up business compared to men and the actual economic effect of that is that, if we had the same amount of women setting up in business at the same rate as we do their male counterparts, there would be an increase of about £7 billion going into the Scottish economy. We want to establish a group to recognise that but also to look at ways of tackling it and for it to be a forum for women thinking about setting up in business, women who have been successful in business to encourage others and to provide a forum for them to do that. Thank you very much. Can I invite any questions from members this morning? Thank you. I believe that there is a really strong case for this group. I think that it is quite cross-cutting and you will be able to then draw on other groups to then bring some advice and support to that but your main aim is to try and inform and just generate awareness but also try to install individuals and women who want to then take part in that whole process. Is that the real purpose behind it? The CPG has its footing in quite a few camps. It has its footing skills, the economy and I suppose the qualities issues as well but mainly it is an economic and skills agenda and it also cuts into education as well. We took evidence in our first meeting that we have a situation where female graduates are not setting up in business to the rate that they expect. That is one of the areas that we are going to look at as well. We want to be very proactive as well about getting publicity out there about our work so that those are things that they are talked about in the public. I just wanted to clear that I am a member of this cross-party group and to thank Gillian Martin for bringing this cross-party group to our attention. Can I ask if you considered whether the objectives could have been met by existing CPGs and why you feel that there is a necessity for a new one specifically with a focus on women? Looking at the CPGs that currently exist, there is actually not any that I identified that had a gender bias—bias is the wrong word—that tackled gender. Of course, in the economy committee that I sit on as well, there is so much to talk about in the economy committee that I am bringing gender issues into the economy committee, but there really is not the space to develop this fully. That was really my driving force behind this, to have something that is directly focused in on women in enterprise, not even necessarily the pay gap that we are talking about. We are talking about women setting up in business and we wanted to have that focus so that we did not feel that it was met elsewhere. I do think that this is a very good idea. I agree with Alexander Stewart's comments. I am disappointed only to see that there are no Conservatives, apparently, on that group. Have you approached the Conservatives? Yes, I too was very disappointed. I was actually disappointed to see that there are two parties missing from it. I approached some of the female members of your group to join the group, but, unfortunately, they did not. However, I would say that the door is always open. Thank you for that reaffirmation of willingness. Any further questions? I declare that I am another of the founding members of the group, and I think that it is really important that we look at inclusivity in enterprise and in work. My one comment is absolutely right to look at startups. I hope that women in enterprise is broader than just women in starting up business. I think that women in leadership roles in big business are also important and in professions. I hope that it is a group that looks at those broad spectrum of gender issues within enterprise and leadership roles across all sorts of organisations in the economy. We are going to be very strong in bringing in mentoring issues about mentors that already exist who have a very successful running business and linking up people who are at the start-up phase or maybe just at the small business phase with other mentors or other female mentors who have made a success of their business. That is one of the things that we want to look at quite directly. Thank you for your attendance this morning. We will be considering the CPG item 2 in our agenda, and you will be informed of the result of that as soon as possible. Thank you very much for your attendance this morning. I will suspend briefly while the witnesses change over. I warm welcome to Jamie Greene this morning to the committee. We will be considering proposed cross-particle and LGBTI issues. I would like to invite the member to make an opening statement about the CPG. Thank you. Good morning. First of all, thank you for having me along here this morning. It's very odd to sit at the side of the desk in a room like this. With the US Supreme Court legalising gay marriage in 2015 in Ireland having amended its own constitution that same year, it is clear that unprecedented progress has been made for LGBT rights thanks to the tireless advocacy of the community. That is great news, but the last thing we can afford to do is become complacent. It is true that lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans acceptance has soared in Scottish society. Scotland is a very inclusive place, but that alone does not equate to true equality. As a society, we are still too quick to label people and put them in boxes. Despite their contributions to our communities and our country, too many people in the LGBTI community still face issues like bullying, mental health problems, sexual health problems, economic discrimination and domestic violence in their daily lives. Therefore, we owe it above all to our young generation to do more and be ever vigilant. There is no time or place to be complacent. The action that I get from people when I told them I was thinking about setting up this group is remarkably consistent. I can't believe there isn't one already is the reaction I often get. And to be honest, committee, when I joined this Parliament, that was my reaction, too. I set up this group with the sole aim of bringing together our political parties, parliamentarians, third-party organisations, charities, LGBT groups and individuals who also need a voice. We held our first meeting recently to discuss the aims and ambitions of the group. I was told afterwards by one charity who attended that meeting that it was the first time that many such groups had sat in the same room to share ideas, debate agendas and discuss a more joined-up approach to how we can help this community. In the day of age, when charities and campaign groups are fighting desperately for self-survival, often the bigger picture is forgotten. And the smaller voice is lost. The collective outcome is secondary to the individual agenda. If nothing else, committee, this group will bring together a wealth of experience, an unprecedented mix of views and opinions over the period of this Parliament and will seek to inform our lawmakers, influence our decision makers and lead the debate, not follow it. I ask the committee therefore to consider the approval of this group to send a powerful message to the rest of the world that this Parliament is not afraid to tackle these often difficult and uncomfortable problems head on. I for one will play a proud part in this group and along with my fellow co-conveners and other members, hopefully will make the LGBTI community in Scotland proud that we do not just talk but we act and that action hopefully starts today. Thank you. Thank you. Can I invite any questions from members? Mr Johnson? First of all, I think that the creation of this group is hugely welcome. I think that it is extraordinary that it does not exist already. I think that one of the key functions of cross-party groups in a sense is to bring outside groups together and help to provide a consistent voice or at least bring out the different voice. This is at one area where I am very aware that there are a number of different overlapping communities, albeit with distinct perspectives. I would be interested to hear how you see the role of the group in bringing those voices together and bringing out the diverse voices so that people in this Parliament can hear those different perspectives. That is a very fair question. It is also a very challenging one because you are right in my experience in the LGBTI community that there are so many different organisations often seeking to achieve the same outcome. Over my years, I have come across various almost factions within some of those groups themselves, and it can be difficult. I think that the purpose of this group or one of the benefits of having a group like this will be the ability to bring people round the table together in an environment that they often would not do so. As I said in my statement after the first meeting, somebody said to me anonymously, I was really surprised that we have never actually sat round the table together. These are charities often fighting for the same funding or trying to achieve similar outcomes. I really enjoyed that platform, the ability to sit round the same table in a closed environment, share ideas and be honest with each other rather than fighting for our own individual agenda. We have to create a group, and it is important that the group gives everyone a fair voice and an equal voice, be they a large, well-funded organisation or a small individual, a small local group. Everyone should have an ability to chip in, and we are looking at ways in the work programme agendas to how we do that and how we make sure that it is not just one or two themes that dominate the discussions over the course of the meetings. There are some very important themes that have to be discussed, but I think that there are a number of other issues that are new to me. For example, we are talking about things like geriatric care for older gay people who live on their own or live in care homes, or for people who live in rural communities. What facilities are available for them from a health or support point of view? There are lots of other issues that are not mainstream that we have to give a voice to. How do we facilitate that? Yes, I think that there will be a challenge, but that is the purpose of the four co-conveners to make sure that the group is as neutral as it can be. I commend Mr Gean for bringing this to the committee today. I think that this has a real opportunity within the community, the political community and the outside community. I do believe that we have our part to play in this process and by having this group that will give us that platform. My question to you would be how do you plan to promote and publicise and use the platform to benefit the communities that you are trying to represent and to bring them closer to the political domain? That is a good question. The fact that the group will meet and be held in the Parliament itself is a good start. It is often the first time that they have had direct access to Parliamentarians. The fact that we will try and shadow the work programme along with the legislative agenda of the Scottish Government is quite important. We will be looking at the timelines of when we think that bills may be coming through and where there are areas in those bills where there is an LGBTI element that we should be thinking about or debating and discussing ourselves. It is also an open group as well. The invitation is there to any member of any political party of any gender or sexual orientation to come and participate in that group. I am very pleased to say that there has been a lot of interest across the political spectrum. People who may not necessarily want to be a member of the group or have time to, but they still want me to report back on what has been discussed because it affects health issues, education, equality or the economy. There are lots of different areas that I think it will touch upon. It gives people that unique opportunity to come in and let their voice be heard in a public sphere. In terms of promoting the group, I think that it is up to each individual member to do its best to let people know that the group is out there. We will discuss as a group how we want to manage that in terms of social media and online presence to get the word out there that we are here and that anyone is welcome to come and be part of that debate. I, too, would like to join other members of the committee in commending in congratulating Jamie Greene and bringing this group forward. I also share my surprise that no such group had been in existence. I want to pick up on a specific point in which it references in your submission that we have taken on some of the functions of other groups that no longer exist in S5, such as the Bloodbond virus group. I declare an interest in the process, along with other members, including the deputy convener, of re-establishing that group. Although it is a certainly very pert and important issue to be taken up by the LGBTI plus CPG, I think that we would agree that Bloodbond virus and sexual health go much further, for example Hepatitis C being a key example, which is well referenced within the Scottish Government's Bloodbond virus framework. I wonder if you would see any conflict in these two groups co-existing or conversely an opportunity to work together and co-operate. Yes. When I submitted the original proposal, the information that I had at the time was that that group was not able to get off the ground and they were looking for other means of promoting that particular cause. I heard yesterday, actually, luckily before I came here today, that that group is looking to re-establish itself and I am very pleased about that. I think that you are right that that has a wider agenda and it is not just specific to the LGBTI community. There is a lot of work to be done there in that group. I do not think that there is any conflict of interest. I think that, if anything, we can help each other. I would like to think that when we are having a meeting that is dedicated to that subject matter that people from your group can come along and be involved in that debate and equally where part of your work programme in that potential group is covering the LGBTI community that someone from our group could come and join that, too. I do not see any particular restrictions on crossover there. I think that we should probably share some information on our plans and what we are both trying to achieve in that subject area to make sure that there is not any duplication. Where possible, I would like to think that we can help each other. I would just finally emphasise that, as someone who has a cross-party group that has had joint meetings on several occasions with different groups, we do not all live in isolation, and we encourage members to look to opportunities for joint committee meetings within the CPGs. We will be taking the decision on that, and everyone is content with that. We will be taking the decision on agenda item 2 today, and you will be informed of our decision in due course. Thank you very much for your attendance this morning, and we will just suspend shortly to allow Mr Greene to leave the committee. I move to agenda item 2, which is consideration of the cross-party groups. If I could take initially the CPG on women in enterprise, I would invite any comments from the members. Mr Stewart. I think that it crosses across many sectors, as was indicated by the member who gave evidence today. I think that there is a real opportunity for us to engage with the sector and to do all we can to promote and publicise it. I really do think that it would be a great asset to have it here, and I think that the people who are on it are also quite innovative on themselves, and I think that that will help in promoting and bringing it forward. I am very content to think that that will be an excellent group to move forward. I absolutely would like to echo Alexander Stewart's comments there. I think that this is a fantastic opportunity for cross-party working to encourage women in business and to assist them to grow their businesses, and to wholeheartedly support the CPG. Any further comments? Mr Scott? I would just agree and support the formation of this group. I think that it is a very worthwhile idea. On that basis, are we content to approve the cross-party group on women in enterprise? Thank you very much. If you can now consider the proposed CPG on LGBTI+, and to invent comments from the members. The Parliament has been here for 17 years, and I am just staggered that we do not have a group of this nature on it. The comments that were made about people being surprised are horrified that we do not have one, rather than surprised, because it proves that we were not getting across to the different individuals and people that required some support and help and advice. I think that the group will do that, and it will bring together individuals and organisations that require support, because they feel sometimes very isolated out there. I am staggered that we do not have it, but I am delighted that we are going to have one, hopefully. We have made some fantastic progress in recent years, but it is important, as Mr Greene said, that we do not rest on our laurels and continue to drive that forward. I am fully in support of this group. From my point of view, I somewhat regret that either of these groups is necessary because we had full equality in our society, but neither of them would have a role to pay. I do believe that, since we do not live in an ideal society, we can both make a very positive contribution going forward. On that basis, I can ask that the CPG and LGBTI plus is agreed. We now move into private session and allow any press in public to leave the gallery.