 Podcasts round table round 116 if you're watching live something's up with the chat. What's new and Go to you cat there. That's what we're gonna be watching today. If you're listening to the Audio only version then it does not matter But we want you to come over to youtube.com slash podcasters round table Subscribe so you can catch us live one of these times and then you can chat with us in real time So we feed off of the chat when we can I mean we always try to cram so many topics in too I don't always get to the chat, but we try Dave is good at monitoring But we're gonna put Dave more on the spot today. Actually, maybe I'll just leave with the story. That's not even I don't think it's on here But I want to lead with it It's just and it's not a story that I can link to per se, but let's meet the round table first co-host Dave. Welcome back Yeah, Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting calm Enjoying enjoying the magic that is live podcasting isn't it's always fun Magic is what it's a great word for it All right, and new round table or Andre. Welcome to the round table. Thank you Andre Lewis start to finish podcasting Where we help you create grow and improve your podcast, and I'm very happy to be here cool Yeah, I mean if you haven't started already then you can go check out Andre if you're watching this you haven't started I am a little curious about what's going on But you know because this is pretty meta stuff right this this show hopefully helps podcasters Improve the show that they already have but I bet some people watch and they haven't started because they're like What do I need to start? I bet that's a big barrier I bet sometimes Dave we see a lot of people who who try to over Overdo it before they start really you just need to start right Dave. That's it I actually just did an episode about how the ultimate guide to launching your podcast because I Met a few people the last couple weeks, and they're just way overthinking and I mean Listening right no unless you bring a massive audience and even it even if people are listening those people, you know They're interested. They'll help you grow so get started. Yeah, you know, what's you know What's funny here is that in terms of the overthinking it, you know one time my boss called me and she said You know I want to see you in my office at three o'clock Sounds and I think it does sound bad And we automatically think bad things and you know all the things went through my head I what did I do wrong? Did I do anything? It's the same with podcasting You know if you worry about too much stuff or I don't have this and I don't have that I'm not gonna sound good I don't know everything and they fail to realize. It's a it's a growing It's it's something that grows on you and you learn more and more about the mistakes you make So don't make excuses about why you don't start because you know, you're not gonna get everything on the first shot Don't don't make excuses make mistakes. Absolutely Want to make mistakes, right? You're not gonna get better. All right. Anyways There is like news recently of it seems like at least two big Media-type companies that are born online. They're not like traditional news companies. Although we've seen that too Getting rid of their podcast division in one case. We have I'm gonna say this wrong Panapoli, Panapoli It's Panapoli, right? Panapoli. It's Panapoli. All right Tyler Tyler if you're watching there you go It's Panapoli says we're not going to do podcast anymore. They're getting out of content business and that's because they basically they Have created a product for advertising that they've clearly seen that that's where the the money is gonna come from You know a product like that's probably easier to make money from than content content can be harder to make money from but then just Beyond that who else someone else cut their podcast buzzfeed buzzfeed And which that is actually surprising right because they're a con they are a content company, aren't they primarily so I Mean what's going on? I don't know but it is a bad decision. It's a business decision I think that's where the problem comes in. I think that it's not a failure of podcasting It's probably a failure of their expectations of what they're doing with podcast and how massively they think it needs to be It's also probably the amount of resources that they give to it They probably give too much they have too much money wrapped up in something that could be done I'm not saying cheaply but more affordably You know one full-time producer for one show and that's just it maybe they're doing too much content, right? Instead of focusing on like doing one piece of content that fits their brand really well They're probably trying to do like way too much and then you know those all those shows can't support themselves So to speak I guess or maybe maybe they're again I think it probably comes down there They're watching numbers instead of quality of Listenership and not realizing that it's really probably a marketing channel more than it is a Revenue channel, right? I mean it should bring people into their other revenue channels I don't know completely just off the cuff here, but you know Dave What do you think's going on? Well when I think of all those great panoply shows like um like um what? and what and That was a one, you know, and I really had a connection with that that one host Yeah, her name was oh no his name is yeah, and I think really that's part of it is the fact that You know when things don't go Don't grow as fast as you want them to yeah This is where I think it indie has the advantage because we have the passion for the subject And we'll talk about it to nobody and we will push through Those years that aren't that great to where eventually hopefully we come out on the other side and some people do and some people don't but when you got a team of 17 Creating one episode and you're flying people all over the place and that's you've got to bring in some serious You know sponsorship to keep that thing going or whatever they're doing and that's what's hilarious I can't name a single show over there Why do you think that they feel the need to be so like but are they competing with like an NPR? Like they're trying to be something that more than what they need to be I think they're trying to be more than they they need to be I Probably I think it's the NPR it's the gimlet, you know, we're gonna do that well produced show where we talk about it Now here comes the background music and the apparent just low humming sound for no apparent reason, you know that whole nine yards and I Don't know. What do you think Andre? It sounds costly to me. Yeah, you know flying people around and doing all of this stuff I think it's uh, you can't buy you can't get champagne on a beer budget You know, so, you know trying to keep up with the big people and if you're trying to paint at least No, not at all. Yeah, I mean if you're trying to keep up with the big boys and you don't have the funding I mean stuff like this is gonna happen. I think they're looking at it wrong. I think, you know, like a buzzfeed. What do people? I don't I don't generally Peruse Buzzfeed. I don't know what's on it. I think it's a lot of sensational clickbait type stuff But I'm not sure maybe it's not so what does their audience get from Buzzfeed and how can you enhance that? Right to deliver it through the people who aren't getting Buzzfeed through, you know, maybe reading blogs I guess that's mainly what Buzzfeed is. Is it this little social links? Is it their website? I don't know. I don't do a lot of Buzzfeed, but you know, they probably need to just figure I don't know what the podcast were even what the podcast were that they were doing But certainly there's a trimmer slimmer way that they could be creating content to their audience wants that they just probably I don't know. I think expectations Get get getting these companies in trouble in it it kind of so on the outside it makes podcasting look bad because it looks like podcasting failed that hey We we tried podcasting. It wasn't there, you know, it didn't bring in the numbers didn't bring in the money And I just think they're using it wrong Yeah, I think it's one of those where they they thought if we create and they probably were good shows I mean they had right teams of people over there Creating these shows and they thought and then we'll create a network to cross promote But if you don't have a big breakout hit You know that whole nine yards and so it's interesting because we always say, you know content is king But again, if you don't promote it to people and then I don't know something just didn't work over there Like you said expectations and then if they're just if they're spending, you know thousands of dollars per episode That's hard to get back depending on how you're monetizing things and I don't know I didn't buy my panoply t-shirt or whatever they're doing over there But it's gonna be interesting to see but it is kind of I'm worried now that this is gonna be a because we haven't had a podcasting is dead kind of spike in a while that comes about every four or five years because Actually had some email with Michael Stelsner. He pulled podcasting from social media marketing world. He's he actually he yeah I guess a good thing we spoke last year Dave. Yeah, that's it. I was like, all right I had never been and I spoke and you were there and we both spoke and uh, so so there's no more That's news to me. There's no podcasting track. Yeah, and and what I want to make sure of is Um, he just said in his audience because he's a podcaster like he said he said podcasting is working for him And he will continue to podcast but in regards to the social media marketing world audience He just saw less attendance in that track. So right and I get it. I mean, it is social media marketing Right, it's not. I mean do we consider podcasting as social media? I mean sort of but not it's not the same of what you think of like twitter and Instagram and stuff and that's what people they're going to that conference for social media specific Apps, right? So I I get that I would think most of them are content creators. So I'm a little surprised by that but But he actually reached out because I had I kind of lumped him in with uh Leo LePork's remember when leo was like podcasting is dead. Well, no leo your audience has found podcasting They were one of the first and now your audience isn't going to grow as fast because the people that are going to find you Kind of found you right and I was saying that might just be the case with michael at this point that You know the social media people have found podcasting there that and he was just like hey just for the record I'm not saying podcasting is dead. So that is not what michael said I was I kind of unfortunately said that in the same sentence when I was talking where leo leport actually did say podcasting is dead Uh, and so I just hope that this isn't going to spur a bunch of people going Yeah, that podcasting thing. It's not not what we thought it was going to be and it probably will like you said it's it's cyclical, right? comes right, you know, I The way podcast is growing. I don't see how anybody could say podcasting is dead It's because there's because there's two sides of this right There's the podcasters the indies who are in the trenches making podcast and who see who who consume podcast But when it gets into these big media companies, which is what gets media attention, which is what gets headlines When one of them declares podcasting is dead. It did not work. Then it spreads like a freaking virus, right? So when someone with a big Uh with a lot of influence says it and leo said it to like spike He always says it to spike his stats or something, right? But so it's it's not it's it's the perception when a person with influence says it That's when it comes around, right? Okay. I think a lot of these companies again going back to expectations They're not happy with two to four percent growth every year, right? And that's basically what podcasting has been doing for Whatever 13 14 years consistently slow, but it will grow Yeah, and so when it doesn't do what they want it to do they're like, oh, well This isn't working and you know, they're gonna throw money at it or whatever But yeah, it's too bad because I mean it's cool that a lot of more a lot more people are getting jobs in podcasting like I have a job as a Podcast producer my my organization gets it. It brings in years. It connects our brand to people outside of the brand I mean like it really does What we want it to do and that's just put us In a space that we wouldn't be otherwise. So You know, again, I think that enough these companies aren't looking at enough Out of it enough for marketing and they're they're trying to make that the revenue source well You know measure like actually cash money from the podcast what you can do But I think they're failing to see how it brings people to the brand They must see it. I don't know what the problem is. It's just not enough for them And it takes time. It also takes time too. It's lots of time It's you know, even as an individual if you start a podcast You're not going to monetize. I mean you may try to monetize your podcast when you first start But that takes time it takes building relationships. It just takes a lot of patience and you're not going to make Tons of money doing it Your first two weeks of of starting a podcast and these businesses these markets, they You know, I guess I don't know maybe because they are a big market They assume and their expectations are a little higher than what What reality is in terms of the growth So the 2% growth that like you said it may not be enough for them They may want more and it could be greed. It could just be Um You know, whatever it is. It's just you know, the expectations. It's just not there Yeah, and I always say when when people especially when they get into to patreon and things like this I go realize the first part of crowd funding Is crowd, you know, it's not funding crowd. It's crowd funding So and to me it kind of reminds me on a bigger scale when I see Other podcasters that do a similar show like mine or I see them do another show like a friend of mine or whatever I go Wait seven months and see if they're still here because a lot of times those shows will fade away And maybe this is just another example of just on a bigger scale that we had a bunch of networks pop up They're like, hey, we're getting into podcasting and you're like, all right Let's give them a year and a half and see if they're still here. I'm sure gimlet's happy. They're like, all right That's less competition for us So now it's comp is there a lot of competition in the market in terms of these companies doing podcasts You know, like competing against each other Probably I mean, I don't know the podcast on like panoply. I don't know what those are But I imagine they're like a storytelling type of but I don't know and I would say buzz feeds is like a tech news So there's a ton of that but maybe it's not tech news Maybe their name is confusing me the feed. I don't know but I would imagine Yeah, on any level. I mean on any level, there's X amount of competition if you want to call it that but um, You know, you're competing for year time. Uh, there's someone who's going to be in your niche right It's just a matter of getting them to give you a shot But I always feel bad when somebody starts like a real estate podcast or a golf podcast or a religious podcast because You know, we and they go I typed in real estate and I'm not coming up And I'm like, yes because there are You know 27 other shows that started seven years ago with the word real estate in your title And it's just going to take a while to to get you up to the top to where you show up because if you're not in I think the top 200 of the search results I don't think you show up period and and okay, so we are not going to get to any of the stories we're doing It's okay Because this is how this show rolls So in that case, let's help that podcaster right because that's most of the people listening to this show So forget the stories. Let's help that podcaster the podcaster who starts they're in real estate They're not going to be found but people are generally not how do you get your podcast? You're not searching apple podcast for for podcasts. Are you so let's take the let's take let's pretend you are Um for me, I think it's all about episode, right? We know that episode You know their title is probably not going to win them anything We can't put them, you know, they're probably can't optimize it the way you'd want for search Especially now with new i do apple stuff if you if you don't know The show the title of your show in apple needs to be the title of your show and that's it, right? There's none of this Slap none of this like um podcasters round table dash Learn podcasting through discussion with podcasters, right? There's none of that. It needs to be podcasters round table only Yeah, you'll you'll definitely be off if you put that in they're gonna boot you So that's not a real avenue for you the author tag is not a real avenue for you unless you're a big name So we're not in this case. We're starting real estate podcast. No one knows us outside our community and What do you have left you have title of your episodes? So go look at other real estate podcasts. What are they got in their episodes? What are they talking about find something that a lot of people are looking for that's not really well discussed and You need to start optimizing those episode titles and having episodes about those topics that you want to be found for Right, so I think if people are searching in apple podcast um I think your only way if you're if you're starting now and you're in a super saturated niche is to is to Optimize those episode titles and episodes to talk about that stuff. I don't know Dave. What do you think? Well, yeah, and if you do any interviews put the name of the person you interviewed in the author tag And then I just I direct people to my website where I have a subscribe page that You know explains how to subscribe to the show because like to me When I hear somebody say, yeah find us an apple podcast. I'm like, oh, you have no idea what you just did It's it literally it's it's a needle in the haystack and yes their search works Most of the time but not all the time And that's just it though people are not for people who don't who aren't listening you can't send them to your web page Right, so how are they gonna find you? I mean, so let's pretend So here's the thing like I said most people I don't think are finding your podcast through The directory itself. Um, I think that they're probably I mean You either hear about a new podcast on another podcast So again another great opportunity for interviews or to work together Right bring something that you do special in real estate And go on another show that has audience and offer to say hey, let me let's let's talk about this thing You know, it's hard to pitch yourself to to be interviewed So you may need to bring that person on and hopefully that person will then promote the podcast And if you can find a way to do it then that they don't feel like your competition Then they'll actually promote you right so if you can bring an expertise that they don't have Maybe your industrial real estate right team up with a with a different type of a real estate agent who doesn't cover industrial So it's not a competition and get that person to expose your podcast. You know, I don't know those are just ideas Yeah, I think it's a good idea that you um, if you want to you know, get your Podcast out there and you want to get subscribers and disappear on other people's shows I mean, I think that's uh, one of the better ways to do it um going on social media and just putting it on facebook and Twitter, I don't think that's enough. No, it's not enough because again, you don't have you don't have an audience You know people aren't following you. I mean you might have a local audience, you know, the tough thing about real estate is like Generally real estate agents are local Uh, right Dave. So you you brought that up, but you must be familiar with this at some level because What is the point of a local real estate agent? Starting a podcast when it's an when it's a you know, a worldwide medium What are they really getting out of it because probably Most people in their own community Are they offering it to their clients? Is that what it is? It just happened to be available on Apple podcast I've never listened to one But I always wonder about that because if it was me and I was selling real estate and You know my little neighborhood I would probably make a show about my little neighborhood and As well as tips on how to shop for a house. I guess I'm not sure I'm trying to figure out why a real estate agent would want to be discoverable What are you trying to do trying to get on speaking gigs at the real estate conference? Maybe that might right, you know, I mean I'm trying this goes to the value of local podcasts like podcasts that are really localized Um, I think in again, if you're a real estate agent, you're letting your clients know Hey, I have all these tips right like it's all right It's an additional resource for you to offer to your clients And then I guess if people find you, you know, if people are in You know Zimbabwe and they're listening to your podcast about your any I'm trying to figure out why they would listen So you need to make it I think in that case you need to make it general enough to offer someone in another country another state another city you know, I think um One reason that You know, they can keep they keep a glow a local podcast may want to go global because of You know, they're probably thinking about the future, you know, um today. It's just um It's serving a local community tomorrow They're Have they have courses on how to start your own real estate company and things like that So that could be one of the reasons that he goes global because He or she may be planning on having some type of courses in the future And they just want to build that Audience up and those followers and then when he does decide to do that, you know, he has his audience already Yeah, Daniel. I see avatar. Is he here? It's muted. So it's an audio only Or we're just still still working his way in not yet. Okay. Not yet. Good. Then that means I didn't know if he's audio only All right, Daniel is gonna join us. So if you've been waiting on pins and needles He is on his way. All right. Let's actually try to pick a story here. That would be nice. Um Andre, I think You have a story that's sort of related been talking about because you're talking about um an increasing amount of colleges and universities Getting into podcasting. We're talking about people getting out But here's some people getting into podcast, right? Yes. Yes. So, uh, I I actually wrote down some notes here because I really thought this stuff was important. Um, so I wrote it down here And what it is is that a lot of professors Are doing podcasts as a way of lecturing to students Um, and they're archiving them so that they can use them as a reference Are these students who don't who don't show up to class are they just letting students You know, I think it's it's part of Some of its part Yeah, it's kind of like um, it adds to the learning. So you'll have some reading assignments You'll have some in-class assignments and as an extra resource you may um Revert to the podcast to you know, it could be right. It's supplemental. It's supplemental. Yeah. Yeah, and um What they're saying here, let me I got it right here. They're saying that Oh, here's a good here's another point with this the podcast some of them are only they're not 60 minutes to 90 minutes in length Some of them are not long at all. Some of them have been three to five minutes. They call those, uh Micro lectures in the education world micro lectures um And they compare that to you know, students listen to music And the songs are three to five minutes. So they're used to you can you can get them for three to five minutes so what what these universities are doing They're like doing lectures for like three to five minutes And then giving you another podcast to listen to so you're not you're never you're not like trap like oh I'm going to be here 60 minutes listening to this You got three to five minutes and then there's part two there's part three And it keeps you it'll keep you going and you can stop when you want But you're more likely to listen a little bit more if you know, it's not a long one You just you all listen to this one Then you get intrigued or engaged by the the lesson or what's being Um, what information is being shared those darn kids. I feel like they're like a bunch of ets We got a sprinkle like racist pieces and if they hopefully they'll pick up one And then they'll pick up another one and then they'll just end up wanting to be but And it's all and it's also mobile. So they don't have to come to class. Yeah So Yeah, yeah, I wish I had that I had to go to class in the snow uphill both ways too Well, if you think about it, even if they gave away all of the content you still have to have the book Uh, a lot of times they'll they'll have something on it. And the other thing is you you get a A degree for passing a test So no test no degree. So, you know, if somebody listened to this you you could take the class But you're not going to pass it because You're not you got to you got to give them the coin to be able to take that test So if for some reason they got out into the public I don't think that would be a big deal and and uh craig from in clay's podcast has tested this He actually did two groups where one they got to listen to a podcast and one did not and the group They got to listen to a podcast had better grades except for one guy In the in the didn't listen to a podcast and he later confessed. Okay. Yeah, actually listen to the podcast So it it definitely at least in craig's little study It definitely helped his students get better grades And I I think it's I think it's a good thing too real quick that um that they are using podcasts because um I just can't see myself using cassette tapes or remember the walkmans Old school I got I remember these things that were called cds, you know And we thought that was showing some type of shiny disc that I imagine is from some alien planet Yeah, and we thought that was going to take we really thought that was going to take over the world cd So, uh, now we've moved on to bigger and better. Is that bobby brown was my This is robert randolph in the family band something that's much different. Okay. Hey, well cool. I think there's new opportunity Right. I think I work with professors that have podcasts and they use them in in their in their classroom to enhance it as well and everything I've heard from College level podcasts. I hear it does actually help. I hear that most students do better. So There's a lot of opportunity to get into education. Maybe you're not even a professor, but um creating podcasts For the niches that people are actually taking The subjects people are taking in college. I'm actually it seems like there's got to be podcasts for that That seems like kind of a good idea like almost training for someone like cliff be the cliff notes of college for the podcast Right and also some of these colleges, uh, the mass communication majors are required to Do a podcast as a project for one of their grades. So it's like a major project And they are gonna put it on anchor and it's going to be two episodes for their project and it's gonna be dead after that That actually kind of goes right into one of the stories I have listed here So, um, I wasn't gonna go there, but let's do it. How many and I don't think we covered this even though It's not a super recent story. We've been gone for a while How many of the 540,000 podcasts have pod faded? So this was on rain news, uh, steve goldstein, I believe wrote this up and it says that, um Well, I put the main takeaway the space seems full of those creating consistent podcasts Um are much less. Okay. So the space seems full. So I always hear Um, I think what was the last episode are there too many podcasts? We did the last round was are there too many podcasts and um, you know people say this and we still say hey Compared to blogs podcasts are nothing right? There's such a few number of podcasts, but The key is this that while there may be 540,000 podcasts listed in somewhere like apple podcasts How many of those have actually produced an episode in the last year and I think Todd Cochran did some numbers at blueberry and it was like less than 25 percent of those podcasts have Published a new episode in the last year the whole year. So It's not as saturated. You think it is. Um, it may seem like you hear those numbers, but even that number is relatively low but The as far as pod fading goes This sort of title of this round is is podcasting too difficult What do you think so I said is podcasting too difficult meaning is it too difficult to stick with? Um, it is hard. I think that actually is you're not going to get around that Um, if the content is good and is it too easy I just made a joke about anchor but anchor makes it super simple to start But is that actually creating an issue that because it's so easy you just put some audio into a phone You put it out there now It's in an apple podcast and it's going to be dead and in a couple in a couple episodes because it's just like I tried it wasn't interested, right? So I don't know Daniel. Welcome to the round table. What do you think about this? Why do you think why do you think we see such a high number of pod faded shows? First, well, thank you. Uh, Daniel J Lewis from the audacity to podcast.com First we we have to know what we're talking about when we're saying pod fading I hear many people use this term differently. Yeah, pod fading does not simply mean a show ended. It means a show faded from I would I would say that 25 percent number that I that I because it's the last year, right? I mean, I go plenty of time. I'll go I'll put out a few episodes in a year on the podcast studio at this point It's Sort of pod faded, but it's still there still the feed will get new episodes But if you have not published an episode in a year I mean you could come back but for the most part I would say for our purposes you're pod faded well If if it was unintentional. Yes, there are plenty of podcasts out there that have ended And they're still available, which is great because right so it was a Limited run series, right? They're no longer active. They have been retired Like my once upon a time podcast about the tv show that finally ended The podcast also finally ended as well. So we didn't pod fade it. It didn't fade from existence. It ended so right, but you knew that you that was I don't think it fits because you sort of defined that in the in the in the podcast itself You you know, you're doing a tv show. You know, it's going to end But I'm sure you guys even talked about that that there was an end to this podcast We knew that we would see it through until its end no matter how hard it Podcasts that was quite an interesting commitment But then we did finally in the podcast and in that last episode. We had this big emotional ending There were tears. There was a montage. It was beautiful And now that there's actually the opportunity to extend that with one more episode reviewing the disc set that came out I'm telling the team. No, we ended the podcast and it was a beautiful ending There's no point continuing after you end with MacGyver fishing at a lake There's no reason to go on for two that sounds like a spoiler to me. I was just going to get into that show Forget it now. Hey, so our podcast is podcasting too difficult. Let's answer that question You know what? I I think in some aspects people say it's difficult and they say it's easy now the easy part is okay so depending on Your quality of your podcast now if you have a podcast and you don't care about the audio You don't care about the the the EQ and you don't care how you sound. You don't care too much about The content you're just talking to be talking because you want to Then it's easy because you're taking a mic any mic and you're hooking it up to your computer and then you're Downloading audacity and there's your podcast. So for them, it would be easy Now those who care more about the audio more about the content uh just sounding good. I think it's It's a little bit more difficult But I think the the hardest part of podcasting is not so much starting one is keeping good content and staying up to date with You know the changes in podcasting things of that nature. So It is it could be easy. It could be hard in terms of you know being difficult It all depends on the person like if you really if you're really into this I think the difficulty starts when you get to maybe 10 12 episodes and You just got to come up with that good content there's a learning curve to everything And at every point in everything I'm sure everyone faces that point Where they feel like giving up or they just slowly fade from their interest whether it be Relationships or hobbies or businesses jobs Even the things that you used to love you might not love anymore like Minecraft boy was I addicted to that when I first got Minecraft now. I hate Minecraft. Oh, I hate it so much and the podcasting space I think I think it's good for tools to get easier Especially certain things that are on the audio engineering side Like when we talk about compression and loudness normalization and stuff like that That's stuff that really I think content creators shouldn't have to worry about like when you drive your car Yes, it's good for you to know You need to fill the gas every now and then you need to change the oil every now and then you need to Take it to get maintenance and repairs here and there But you don't have to know how a carburetor works in order to drive that car and do whatever you do with the car So I I think it would be good for podcasting to get easier. But is it too difficult? I don't think it's too difficult either It's it really is the it is really consistency. That's the hard part right everything else about podcasting It's it's not too hard to start Dan's got a Q Q to you right there and that's all you need It's not too hard to get some hosting and put it up there and you don't need a website Um, you know, Dave will help you works at Libsons. So it's not it's not difficult It's showing up on whatever schedule that you posted. I mean Clearly been an issue for me for some of my podcasts this one Mostly, but you know what I don't I the key is not to let it control your life either. So, you know being there When you can is better than not being there at all. I think personally Um, I do a podcast for myself first if it's not for you If you're if you're holding on to your podcast Because you feel obligated to other people or someone else or some Thing like I'm gonna make money or somebody it's not gonna be a good show Right, so it has to be for you and then from there you hopefully are producing it for the people who are listening So consistency, I mean and just being in the feed on a regular basis That is difficult and I don't think that is something you can change because that comes from You just have to create content. Like I don't think that that is something you make easier. Sure, right? You could templatize That's not how you say the word or even a word at all, but you know what I mean You can make a template. Um, you could do an interview show or you ask the same question every time I mean, you could make doesn't mean that that's easy though. Um, if you do a lot of them So Yeah, that is the that's the hardest part about podcasting that I know tech companies really gonna solve for you And if they do it's probably not gonna be very good content. Well, and if you look at things like the Grammys It's hilarious Look who won best new artist and every one of them is like, oh, whatever happened to that guy Whatever, like they came out of the gate. They had 10 years to work on that first album They had it it was great And then their second cat album came out and was like no, thank you and they're off to you know Now they're whatever flippin burgers or working at wal-mart or whatever they're doing and um, it's exactly it It's got it. I think it's hard to create good content That inspires your audience to share it that that is a special Recipe and to be able to do that On a weekly or whatever schedule you're doing basis That's really the tough part because it's it's great when you have a great episode and you're getting a lot of feedback and then you're like And I got uh, hmm next week next episode. Let's see. What am I working on again? You're like, oh, that's when it gets tough I like a few years ago at word camp in Dayton, Ohio Corey Miller the founder of iThemes who makes plugins like backup buddy He gave this keynote presentation where he ended with this main point is he said keep clicking publish And that was the main thrust of his presentation And that's how he got his start is with blogging and website design and other stuff He just kept clicking publish and in in our chat room Mad minister said just hit the record button and you keep you have to keep hitting record And keep hitting publish as well. Or else you're never going to get good Yeah, I say all the time because it's funny because I just spoke at a word camp and Uh, a person I met a person there and she said she's she's she wants to start a podcast And that she might do a bunch of episodes and and and never really publish them, right? Because I said the first 10, you know, it'll be a rough start and you'll learn And I and I said no, I think, you know, I always tell people I I think you have to hit record But more importantly you do you have to hit publish there's something about putting it out to the world. Um that just That gets your feet in that lets you grow, right? You could record 100 episodes at home that you never publish And I just think that you need to I I agree completely I think you need to put it out there not only did you start at that point But it's just something about that something about it being out in the world Let's you build on top of what you've done. I don't know. I don't know what that is, but and I think uh And you know, I I think that you know when we were babies You know We didn't just come out the wound learning how to walk When we were teenagers we didn't just learn how to drive automatically in one day when we uh Through a football or a shot of basketball that wasn't automatic. We just had to keep practicing and we fell We we fell down. We got back up. We missed a shot. We shot it again. We threw the ball We didn't hit our target. We did it again. I think you can apply that to podcasting when you start You're not going to be perfect. You're going to make the mistakes But you just got to keep going even if you don't think you sound good or you know, you may not think anyone's listening You know, and I'll tell and I'll tell anybody if you got one listener That's one listener that is one person that's actually listening to you And they're actually listening to what you're saying. So that makes it worth it By itself in my opinion. So the whole point of it is just just got to keep going like you said just keep Producing content it gets better You'll probably get better and the more you do it the better you'll be off The flip side of this is uh I guess chris in the uh in the chat It is difficult for the average person to produce good audio especially due to all the people out there saying podcasting is easy Just start of course it that his name on here is podcast engineering school So it's a bit of coming from a different perspective and I think there is a um Yeah, we do say podcasting is easy Just start and I just said hey q2u you can get good stuff and there are some general practices But I think the key is especially for an independent doesn't have an audience yet Um get something that doesn't suck, you know, like not using your built-in mic on your computer spend a few dollars get a little something Is start putting stuff out there you can improve all of that as you go again because if you don't start Um, you're never gonna improve you just have to you have to start And I I would rather see you start and it not be that good again Who's listening in the beginning right and I have told people I mean you can always delete episodes That that's you're not it is You're in charge of this thing steer the ship how you want so um Bring it back to the question of like how many podcasts there are versus how many pod faded I wonder throw this to other media formats How many books are there where the author then gave up and didn't write any more books How many tv's funny how people don't look at it that way right like you write a book No one I don't I mean sometimes you're like I hope that author puts out another but you don't expect You're not like oh we're in it for it now It's not episodic or though sometimes it is right if you write book one you better have book three four But it's a little but I think it's interesting that people don't expect it And maybe that's just because of the nature when you start a podcast you're expecting a continuing story Yeah, even with tv except for The Simpsons we all know a tv show will at some point in Daniel except for law and order Okay, that one too When your actors never age, you're okay, you can just keep going on forever Like we don't lose actors here. We just draw them. Well. Hey, Daniel. Let's go to one of your stories I don't know. Did you have you probably had I interrupted you you have more of a point there Okay, cool The the other story I want to share if you haven't heard yet Yesterday at the time of this recording. So it's september 19th Apple Released a podcast marketing best practices page. It's a podcaster dot apple.com. Yes, I'll stop our shows now about podcasting Apples take care of it. We're done. We're done. I'm retired This is official advice or it's advice officially from apple on how to better market your podcast This is fantastic They've listened to me They've listened to the show because I've said apples shouldn't adopt a google like strategy Because google and hey, maybe this ties in right because apple's now doing this. They're helping you Market your podcast, which means they're helping you grow your show Why because isn't there something about ads in here because now they are taking a google approach where maybe Their incentive is to get people in because of ads Well, they have been working on this for a long time. So they're not doing this in response to google No, not response to google. I'm saying that they are listening. They're listening to the things I've been saying for years, which is google helps the the content producer because it helps google Apple is now helping the content producer because I imagine at some point it's going to help apple Now some of the things on this is just reading the headlines here Fundamentals of podcast marketing package and present your show audience development apple marketing tools and resources Avoid common mistakes. It seems pretty generic. I went through it. It's a nice site, but it seems fairly generic It is but yet it does have some things that People often don't think about Like they mentioned in here Even just some of the common mistakes. They say lead with the content listeners want to know right away What they're in for so don't bury the lead And stuff that Sometimes we don't think about because you know, we think oh, we need to get our sponsors in We need to learn about the guest We have to have the who are you tell me about yourself and all of that stuff in 10 minutes in Then we get to the content people want to know though Did they open up any part of the black box? Right? They like they give you this advice from us They get this advice from blogs But did apple say hey, here's how here's here's a little insight into how apple podcasts work You know, I mean because then it's nothing cool. Thanks. It's a good advice, but it's nothing Uh original to their platform Here's well There's a person from the apple marketing team that we know that uh is on twitter steve wilson He tweets certain things openly. So i'm not like revealing secret identities or anything like that for this But for the last year and a half or so probably wall. He's been working on this page Uh, he's tweeted out things giving advice marketing and advice to podcasters and highlighting certain podcasts in apple podcasts That we're doing things well like look at this description See how they tell a story with this or don't Don't start your description with the name of your podcast or certain things like that I bet none of those were what we would consider independent podcasts though A drastic park. I only see the big studios steve. Come on hook up an independent. There's plenty people doing good Thanks. Let's do this. I think that this page does give us a little bit of an insight into apple's thinking because probably This is coming from data They see that the people the podcasters who have done these things End up having good success and they have access to that data. So Maybe they were thinking let's turn this data into something usable for podcasters Yeah, I hope so. I mean, it's certainly I mean, we know they're good practices. Um, they're stuff We've been talking about for a long time Um, I'm just it'd be cool to see them You know google has a whole they have their people from like the algorithm team From their market. They have people like giving actual insights about how to do things on youtube That are going to help grow Your audience on youtube. So I hope apple continues this. I mean even youtube will reach out to Some producers they've reached out to me. I have technically I have some contact at google that I can go to who will help with my channel. Um So, you know, it would be cool to see apple take a more Uh enhanced approach to podcasters and sort of some of the independence and so I think You know, we've talked about it plenty of times that it's likely apple. There'll be some type of ad I mean apps have an ad platform, right daniel. We think that at some point podcast will see some type of ad on on apple podcasts Yeah, well, there's somewhere to overcast go ahead dave. Well, there's a thing here that says under It's the i ads or something. Yeah, the i ad workbench another useful way to advertise your show on apple podcast and reach millions of apple users in over 100 countries Is through the i i ad workbench And with a link to learn more about the i ad workbench. What is it? It's the simplest way to create create manage and optimize ad campaigns for your apps music websites movies and more It enables you to reach millions of apple users in Uh over 100 countries. So that does make it sound like maybe this is coming to apple podcast because You know, I could sponsor I could put my show in front of a bunch of apps But you know, I don't want to put the school podcasting in the I don't know fitness app where they're you know in the i ad That hasn't gotten a lot of attention recently But it's kind of apples version of google adsense So app developers can use i ad in their in their apps To put out a free app and still get money from it using apple's own advertising platform So it's not just saying that this is a way that you could possibly advertise your podcast in the app store or Theoretically inside of apple podcast, which I don't think they're saying here that you could do that But I think that might come in the future But what they're what this is is that you might be able to show up inside Of someone's app who's using i ad so for example Angry birds let's say angry birds uses the i ad platform and You could show up then so whenever someone completes a level they see an ad And if they watch an ad you bird fan podcast perks or something Yeah, you advertise your angry birds fan podcast in there And that could get a lot killer that'd be killer, right? I mean like so There are does an app for every niche, right? There's your business apps I mean there is definitely an avenue for you there and hopefully it would be a An affordable avenue for the average person I mean overcast is very affordable with the way they do their ads And they seem to be to me the single best way to advertise a podcast Is an overcast because it hits a relative out It hits a relevant Topic like you just put yourself if your science podcast you put yourself on other science in front of other science podcasts, so I hope that happens There's a method there's a method to Apple podcast madness. Oh, yeah, they're gonna come out with something nice and shiny. There's gonna be some money behind it That's why I'm that's why I'm wondering where's where's it where's it happening? And I mean, you know They want people on the platform. It's that simple. I mean It's always good. So cool. Well, there's a new resource. I bet a lot of people don't know about that Um, so that's a lot of people were listening here. What do we say the website for that? podcaster.apple.com podcaster.apple.com very cool Check it out. It's definitely a nice looking website It's apple. I'm gonna say they like their stuff pretty. Yeah, of course. I like pretty too. Pretty's good All right, let's see. Let's try to cram another story in here We did get a late start because uh hashtag live streaming um Let me find something interesting Uh, let's see Dave. Did you pull out one of your stories? That's I'm interested and I guess I'm Dave You always seem to pick like services like which I'm like, I don't know if I want to talk about a new service It's gonna be out of business. But tell me about this pod squad. Tell me why you pick pod squad Well, because this is my whole point. I feel bad. The guy's really nice john lee He's like, hey, can you help me get the word out? And I'm like, okay, what's What it what does your app do? That's gonna make me leave overcast because you will pry over so it's a direct it's a directory Or it's a podcast. It's a podcast happen the the fun thing that he's saying Is he sponsoring this episode because I feel like we need some money By the way Round 116 this show has made zero dollars. No, it's this is not an ad But that's my whole point is I think his thing is he's gonna have like the twitter feed Of the host like you're gonna be able to like tweet back and forth to the host to where I kind of want to go Isn't instagram the new hot thing? But anyway Twitter's gonna be in there and it's gonna be super easy to communicate with the host via social media in the app In the app I like that. I mean it's solving an issue that I I mean I think needs It's so easy to comment on youtube video But how I can't easily communicate with my podcaster and so again It's locked into one app. I mean it's hard to get any penetration on one app, but I'm interested Yeah, so I I just saw it and I was like Okay, and I just I said but like what else and what you could you're gonna be able to make those little video things? What are uh video gram audio gram? They're gonna be able to make audio grams with the app And apparently share them and things like that and I was like Okay, so I'm not I'm not poo-pooing it. I'm just to me it's gonna take more than that for me To I mean I'm subscribed to a boatload of podcasts. I like your main takeaway What would it take for you to leave your current app and I'll tell you what I have no reason to leave pocket cast Yeah, that's and so he's coming to podcast listeners Who already are Knee deep in an app. I'm like I feel bad for him because it's like coming over to I don't know You're trying to get grimace in the hamburger to go over to burger king And like those guys are kind of tied to McDonald's You know, I'm like you You need to go find new people that aren't listening to podcasts to go. Hey Look at this new app and you can communicate with the you know the host or whatever So I just to me I was just like okay And that's I mean a lot of people are making new stuff and then there are other things like Podhero.io is gone by the way of the dodo, you know, so things are coming and things are going I just I felt bad the guys like I need to get the word out and I'm like The hard thing is the hard thing is you kind to switch you kind of need something to be proven But in order for it to be proven, you need a lot of people on your platform I mean, it's almost like the same thing with podcast hosting. I was thinking about this other day I'm like, there are some really nice audio players on the other hosts that I would really love to use But I had a host with them and it's like, what would it take for you to leave your podcast host? It's not a compelling enough reason for me to migrate everything to another host like I just I mean, so, you know, I don't know, Daniel, you look at you had a thought there about about this whole thing but first thing is pod squad app is the website we're talking about and Dave is talking about like a podcast app and although this does use the word right in the tagline. It says a podcast app But besides that everything else on this page looks like it's designed for the podcaster Not the podcast share So like I mean it says for podcasters producers and influencers Create means blah blah blah this stuff So and I've interacted a little bit with John Lee too and I signed up for his beta list. Yeah, me too I'll kick the tires on it if it's yet another podcast app With social features built into it. Yeah, I think it's going to be An uphill battle and I mean what other app has even What other app is even overcast right is broken through but breaking through means what? 1.5 percent of the market. I mean what is breaking through me? geez Your agent on libson's the feed podcast. That's your breakthrough point Yeah, yeah, and I remember there was one at podfest a couple years ago That you're supposed to be able to like use your location to find podcasts close to you And I'm like, but why do you? I don't what makes that relevant to me other than yeah, and it I don't think it I don't know if it's dead yet, but that was when I was like, well, that's different. I'm just not sure How that You know, I don't know that I'm looking for local podcasters, but okay So in the chat room bang says cross platform playlist. That's what I want. What is that? What would that be cross platform? So I can listen on my android I can well doesn't pocketcast have that where it's both ios and the android Yeah, but it says playlist specifically. So I don't know. I'm not quite sure what would happen there Well, let's assume he's talking about not the same app across multiple devices And while we're talking about this, he'll no doubt clarify inside of the chat But if he's thinking more like For example With the woman in the tube the smart speakers Most of the podcast apps that we use as podcast fans Don't work on the smart speakers You know the apple smart speaker Only works with apple podcast the Amazon smart speaker works with tunin and a couple other things google smart speaker works with google podcasts But if you are a fan of overcast, there's no easy way to then just tell your smart speaker Hey lady play my podcasting playlist Maybe that's what he's referring to Yeah, I don't know He said he said cross platform would be like if I had a playlist on spotify and I could put it in a pandora And I'm like that's not happening. It's just not gonna happen. Yeah Well, you do have the ability to export your podcast subscriptions, right? What is that an op ml? Yeah op ml, right? I would say it's not a podcast app unless it supports op ml So I'm I mean I'll I'll kick the tires on and I just to me when I when I see somebody come in. I'm like and I'm not like people Innovating and trying new things. I just I think in some cases again the the expectations that We're like, oh, it's new and shiny and we're gonna run and grab it I'm like no, I've got 110 episodes in overcast. I got to listen to like I can only imagine I guess like Daniel said if I can export an op ml file and then import it on another app, that'd be a different story Oh, he is talking about using essentially the same app and it's synchronizing across all of these different platforms including Across to the enemy going from ios to android or vice versa. And I think pocket casts is the only Pocket casts and i heart radio I think are And maybe two others are the only very few podcast apps across all platforms android version populating Uh, the same playlist as my web app version on my ios version So I use pocket cast and I If I guess I could go between all these different platforms and and do that but It's still still one app But maybe not your playlist Yeah, like like I have a playlist of entertainment podcasts So it's only the podcasts that entertain me are in that playlist Inside of overcast So he would be saying like although the podcast might synchronize what podcasts you're subscribed to those playlists might not synchronize and that And that's stupid that it doesn't do that So I'd say suggest that to the app developer and I'm sure they'll get that put in Seems like something really easy overcast does that between the web and the ios app and other apps do that too Do any of you guys use more than one um app in terms of for your podcast? No, I I use overcast to listen I have many a screenshot from Apple podcasts where people go I can't find my show in apple podcast to which I then have to go find it Take a screenshot and go here it is and then send it to them but I used to use the apple podcast until I forget what version came out And they kind of broke it and then they didn't fix it quickly and and that's when I switched over to overcast and The thing I love about overcast is I can upload things to the overcast website And it will then download onto my app and if apple had that I'd think about going back, but um, it's it's just It's a handy little app, but it does everything I want it to do Yeah, for me answering your question, dave What would make me switch the reasons I like overcast smart speed Not just playing at a faster speed, but there's smart speed which reduces the breaks in between words I don't use it for comedy. So don't talk to me about comedic timing Being able to set the speed settings per podcast and lock it to a specific podcast Uh, the playlist ability almost all of the apps have that um, but it's that smart speed Oh voice boost also where it's kind of normalizing a little bit the volume differences between voices If another app had those main most important features of overcast to me and the uploads like dave said as well And that other app supported video podcasts Then I'd be very tempted to switch. Well, what is that pocket cast? But I just don't like that What was that video videos like they're they're a podcast that are video format. It's like It's like youtube. Wow. This is amazing. There's an rss feed. Holy cow Okay, can you tell me one video podcast you watch? Well, that's the thing ask a ninja. Yeah Well, yeah I was subscribed to ask a ninja for years after they podfitted holding on to hope that they would come back And hey that video podcast were so video podcasts were so they I don't know if I call them dominant But they were all my video before youtube man. I love video podcasts, but it just it sort of went away Even though they still exist. I'm sure they still do quite well. Yeah I can put stuff in a video feed at work and it still does Pretty good. So the video podcast I used to watch I no longer do because they're no longer in my preferred podcast app, which is now overcast Oh, you can't do video. Okay. I think uh pocket cast does video, but I'm not I'm not sure I have no video podcast, which is sad because I started as a video podcaster So I'm a I'm ashamed to my own origins, but whatever And I got a couple of buddies of mine who uh, they prefer to listen Look at a video podcast and I asked them why and they said Listening to a podcast. It's like being blind You hear it, but you don't see it and they prefer to listen to I mean to watch a video podcast whereas Myself I'd rather listen to one than watch a video. I mean they're both okay, but um I'd rather listen to listen to one As opposed to the video. Yeah, I mean just depends on what if you have the kind of time to sit there and not do Something else. Um, I like video. I mean look at this. We're doing talking head I mean, this isn't something you need to watch at all We do it because of the platform google hangouts lets us connect and I record and it works out really good um, but You know, I mean, it's cool to see if people have been listening to 115 rounds and then they come over to here for 116. They actually see what we look like They're gonna be like, wow, that's seriously. That's what you look like. That's not what I thought at all But so I it's fun. It's fun to be able to check in and then of course We're available on youtube for discovery. You want to use that word? But people might say, oh, this is a podcast, right? I'm into this. I don't want to watch an hour of these guys talking into a you know into a microphone Just talking head, but um, I'll go and subscribe to the audio only podcast and take it on the road with me So it really is It really is to each their own, but um, yeah, hopefully hey if you're watching Check out check out the video version now Admittedly, it's not in An rss feed you can't get this as a video podcast that would require me to You know the problem and why I think Audio won out because it's it's easier like you said you don't have to be watching it. Um, but for the podcaster Video podcasting is expensive. I mean hosting there's hosting and video files are much larger I have a 20 now I can do I can do an hour Of an audio podcast for like 30 megabytes, right? Depending on how you compress that Um, good luck with the video podcast my one hack is you could download The compressed version that youtube gives you if you put your if you're doing video You should probably also be on youtube and then in your dashboard go download their version It's still good quality because of the magic of google And it's super compressed in terms of the size so but again It is it's expensive depending on how you host we could have debates about oh, hey, there's free hosting over here Well, yeah, that used to be called blip.tv and they no longer exist Um, I used to use that so nobody nobody exists Nope, nobody exists any longer so many people There used to be um So many video sharing sites that I had to like publish to one to send them all out to the other instead of upload So anyways videos tough it can be tougher, but um youtube really is is is dominant But yeah, if if you have I would say a shorter show it's easier to do but anyways Yeah, I mean I would consider still consider if you're doing video and you're not in A podcast feed you should think about it because again also probably less competition these days Yeah with video podcast I think pat flinn for a while was doing a video podcast and that was basically it. He said there wasn't any competition. Yeah Yeah, there's an avenue. Hey if you can't break through in your niche in audio or If you're okay, Dave, we're back to our real estate agent I bet a lot less of them are doing video podcasts So be found for that and then of course you promo the audio So you just need to be found right if your stuff is really good You just need to be found so we're take your take some version of your content Put it in video and stick it into a video podcast where you are much more likely to surface I would hope and then of course you push people over once they find you say hey Dude take us on the road. You don't have to stare at our faces or whatever we're staring at and listen to the audio podcast That's dude. That's a new strategy. I haven't thought of I like this. All right We're accomplishing things even at the end of the hour. I'm super happy Uh, do we want to get do we have any other stories that we need to get to Dave has another Let's get chartable. I had five reasons someone doesn't listening to podcasts, but I didn't read that It's pretty anyone read that It's basically the same answer over and over. Yeah, that's what I thought it wasn't much there It wasn't a lot there. Let's see. I'm just it is a good article though Listening to podcast is hard. Is that true? What? It says uh Now listening to podcast is hard. It says while there is only one way to watch orange is new black via netflix There are several ways to listen to serial apple podcast itcher With so many different platforms for podcast listening Choice overload can kick in 80 percent of non Podcast listeners don't think they have a dedicated app. They can listen to right from their own phone So this is pulling from stats. I think we saw that stat come out of like the right The last survey we see it. Yeah, what's that tom webster at podcast movement talking about right and uh, while you distribute Everywhere podcasts can be heard when promoting your show outside of The podcast take the path of least resistance pointing to a third party app will be less helpful for a newcomer than directing them to Listen on your website, which is something we've always told people That's good advice there. I I did you know, you can highlight things on medium.com. That's pretty cool I highlighted that you can highlight and do what what do you mean highlight? When I read this article earlier when you posted it in our notes I read through it and saw oh, that's a good point. I want to make sure that Highlight that sort of thing. So I was able to select the text like an annotate You made an annotation on medium and on medium.com. They have built in that on their website So when you're signed in it shows you your annotations. Yes, that's cool I'm eating. I mean, I love medium and I never go there but I it's oh every time I go there. It's a nice experience, but Um, you're gonna have to get it in a podcast if you want to reach me Uh anything else? Um Anyways, the other main thing that they said Down here under point four. They want to be entertained. They said remember these are non listeners So your competition isn't other podcasts your competition is netflix hb and hbo and hulu Who says that podcasts can't be billed like the next next bingeable original series Sell the groundbreaking new formats that are taking off. I don't know about that Sell the star power joining podcasting's ranks Again, I don't know about that, but here's what I think is most important. They say sell the experience your own show offers this one, um, I Haven't read through this one. Let's do this live because this seems interesting They don't know they need your content yet So 65 of non listeners say there are so many podcasts. They don't know where to start That's because they haven't found The found okay typo. They haven't found the one Uh 61 of non podcast listeners would listen if there was if there was one on a topic They were into with five hundred and fifty thousand podcast out there covering A panoply interesting that they use that word panoply not capitalized of subjects and catering to a variety of hobbies and interest What gives word of mouth is still a powerful discovery machine Chances are your fans have friends or family members who haven't heard a podcast yet start an awareness campaign that taps into their power of persuasion So they're saying it's out there, but most people they're saying that most people they don't like I don't Is there there's not a podcast for me, uh, but there is This is what I want to do on Um international podcast day Which is september 30th is I want everybody to go to their facebook group or facebook account and say do you have any hobbies or interests That maybe people don't know you're interested in and when somebody says the banjo You go out and type in banjo podcast grab that link go here listen to this and Granted you might be sending them to a really crappy podcast if you want to do a little quality control That's fine too, but um Carrie porter bond did this she's a member of the school podcasting and it was amazing how a doesn't it's really It's it's super easy to find any kind of podcast I was really surprised And I think if we could just because I don't think people know what they're missing Yeah, and so they're like well, it's that podcast thing But if you go and they listen to they're like like I listen to the banjo podcast I was like I want to go get a banjo now. I mean everything sounds happy when you're playing the banjo So I was like But there were all sorts of people were chiming in. Oh, I really like this type of dog and there was that type of dog podcast So I think that's a cool little strategy. Uh, at least if For international podcast, I think we should all do that. I think it's awesome asking people about hobbies I mean the key is they have to be motivated by getting people just into the medium, right? So people are like, oh, well if it's not my show If it's not my niche like how do I find people who want to hear my show? Well grow the podcast listener base those people will introduce new people. They'll get back to you It'll come around to your own niche, but I love like You know not even framing it as a podcast question Like what is your hobby and then introduce them to a podcast because like you said it is out there And again, it might not be that great, but then there are opportunities I mean that's a good opportunity if it's their hobby Then maybe they become a podcaster because like look you pointed me to the banjo podcast sucks But I love the banjo and guess what I'm gonna do. I'm starting a podcast about the banjo And it's gonna be good because I am part of the school of podcasting And I listen to podcasts around table Duh Yeah, I don't think this show will help. It's like you will improve The point is to improve the um the lawn the the less technical aspects of your podcasts This should be why you come here. This is the experience. This is grandpa passing wisdom out He learned from grandpa What he says not necessarily what he does which is sit around and watch tv and drink beer Oh, I'm too deep into my own personal stuff All right, that is always a good sign that we're on our way out Um, I think that's it. This has been fun. Um and a good tip at the end So solid all the way through. I love that um as we head out If you have any tips to add that we didn't include go ahead and give those but definitely let us know where we can find One of your podcasts the problem with this show is it's not a problem But we deal with podcasters who tend to have more than one podcast But you get to give one where do you want this audience to go? Um, and then we'll head out daniel j lewis. Thanks for joining us as always Thank you I am bringing back a podcast about podcasting not necessarily the audacity to podcast But it will be in the audacity to podcast speed for now as well as at the audacity to podcast.com It will be answering your questions about podcasting one episode one question Watch for that coming very very very soon may even be available by the time you're listening to this at the audacity to podcast.com Very cool. We're taking the the gimlet model there of shoving it into the other feed, but it's relevant So it makes sense. I don't think that there's is always relevant to the they're putting it in But this one's very uh, I don't know what did you get a domain for that? I used to have a little domain that actually would have been perfect for you But it's gone now and it probably cost too much money. We can talk off air about okay. All right. Maybe you got it I have a domain. That's why I haven't announced the domain yet because I have a couple in mind. Yeah. Yeah I haven't registered them yet. All right. I will make sure I'm not holding on to anymore Yeah, I'll make sure I'm not holding on any more more Relevant domains for you and let's pass it off. Uh, Dave Jackson. Thanks, man Yeah, Dave Jackson school of podcasting dot com. Um Stop by and say hi anytime Dave, I expect you to announce a new show every round. We don't have any stuff right? I have a couple that I I I I did only say one, but yeah, I have I have uh, I want to actually was a joke I did not expect you to actually have one now if you have one give it to us So I did not expect you to have one I'm just gonna take some segments of that I have like I have every year I do that my favorite podcast is saying I might turn that into a podcast because there's a platform I want to play with Oh, of course. Yes. That's what all these all they're all just like let's see what this thing does Dave does the dirty work for us for sure To ask the test all the stuff. We don't have time to test Dave. We'll get it done. Thanks, Dave We appreciate that as a community. We appreciate that Andre, thanks for joining us for your first round table Oh, it was great. You know what? It was really great and I'm honored to be uh Here with all three of you guys is it was great. It's a blessing to have Been on this microphone and speaking to you guys. Um, so thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you very much Audio sounds great by the way. Oh, thank you. Thank you Yeah, uh, Andre Lewis start to finish podcasting.com You can reach me at start to finish podcasting at gmail.com I'm open to answering all questions if I don't have the answer There's no shame in me reaching out to getting the answer So if you have any questions or just want to talk, you know, just contact me and I'm there Awesome. All right. Well, thanks everyone. It's been a pleasure as always. Um, we will see you on the next round, which will be 117 And we'll get a new round table or on the podcasters round table Dot com slash guest if you want to sign up Andre was nice and persistent because that's what I require So he hit me up on twitter He's like, hey Ray still want to be on the round table and I was like, hey Andre. How about tomorrow night? I've been dying to get on here. I know I was like, and it was I was like, oh man It would be so great because you guys look like you have a lot of fun on here And I really did have a lot of fun. I really did. It was great, man. Thanks. We'll get you back We try to get new rounds. I was on but you know, okay, so we try to get people back too So again podcast around table dot com slash guests Um, you don't have to have a topic anymore We're just grabbing news stories and we're discussing them sometimes Dave We spend 40 minutes talking about something. It's not even on our list. So that is the beauty of this show It's a campfire with your friends. We have a drink We talk about podcasting and that's it man. That is the only goals to have fun So see you next time podcast around table dot com Wait, oh, I almost didn't say wait. I almost said bye and turned it off. That would have been terrible I don't even like those things, but