 Depression. Do you suffer from panic attacks? Do you have anxiety? Are you stressed out? Sometimes I wake up in the morning and I feel depressed for moments, for minutes maybe. The rest of the day I'm okay but in the morning sometimes I wake up and the first thoughts that come into my mind are ones of depression or like I'm not enough or why haven't I achieved more and comparison. Now maybe that doesn't sound like depression, maybe that's just self-indulgence but it does make me feel kind of down a bit. I know a lot of people in my group of friends over the years who've had panic attacks and anxiety suffer from depression. So how do we overcome this? Even if you don't have massive depression, even if you have sometimes depression, how do we overcome this? Do we just get through it or do we actually find a way to crush it and make sure that it never pops into our brain again? Is it even possible? There's some of the topics we're going to be discussing in today's episode. I'm joined right now by the founder of Elite Man magazine. He's the host of the Elite Man podcast. His name is Justin Stenstrom and he himself suffered with depression for a time. Justin, welcome to the show. Great to have you here. James, thanks so much for having me man. I'm really excited and I can't wait to talk to your audience. So just before we get into your experience with depression and I know you've got a number of steps here that you're going to share with us on how to overcome depression, but what's your story? Give us a little bit about your background. Tell us a bit about Elite Man magazine and the podcast and then we'll get into this thing on depression. Yeah, thanks for asking, man. I appreciate that. So what I do right now is basically I run the site Elite Man magazine. We help all sorts of, we cover all sorts of topics, help all sorts of guys and even some women. We tackle health, dating, fitness, confidence, overcoming things like depression, anxiety, all sorts of problems, basically everything under the sun that a guy needs in 21st century to become his best self. And it all started with me on my own self-help journey about eight, nine years ago. I was about 17, 18 at the time. I was getting anxiety, panic attacks three to four times a week. I was very depressed to the point where I was actually suicidal. And I had no dating, no confidence, no self-esteem and like zero social life, like no friends at all. This is a time when typically a lot of kids, a lot of teenagers are going home after school and they have sports and they have their friends to hang out with on the weekends. They go to parties, having a great time. Every single day I went to school, came home from school. I was alone the rest of the night for just sitting around watching TV. And on the weekends I'd be alone, like depressed because I had nothing to do. I was just sitting at home doing nothing. And this kind of built up over time. And I think it kind of culminated in things like anxiety and those panic attacks I was getting. So it took a while for me to figure these problems out. But one day I got a really bad panic attack and I decided that enough was enough. I'm going to figure this out. I have to get a control of my life again and overcome these problems. Because if not, I'm either going to end up killing myself or just being depressed to the point where there's like nothing going on in my life and I'm just completely miserable. So I put my foot down. I started researching things. I stumbled upon this whole self-help community, guys like Tony Robbins, Eckhart Tolle, the top of the game pioneers. And started putting sort of a lot of these things into practice that they that they lent out for advice. And over the course of a couple of years, I was able to figure that out, started helping some other friends out with these problems that I kind of, you know, I made friends during that time. I went to meetup groups, forums. I started kind of contributing back and helping other people to go into this problem. And, you know, long story short, I launched my first blog a few years later. And then a couple of years after that came up with the whole Leap Man concept of what we do now. Nice one. Well, thank you for sharing that that story. I don't think I mean, I certainly wouldn't call myself a depressed person. I've never been diagnosed with that. I think generally speaking, I'm pretty happy and have stayed consistently happy throughout my life. But it's funny, you know, I I recently went through a change in my romantic life. I was with someone for some time, and we've kind of transitioned into a different element of the relationship. And so we haven't been spending as much time. Or we just stopped spending time with one another, I should say. And it was funny because I remember the first weekend after that had happened. And I was sitting at home by myself. And the phone wasn't ringing. And I wasn't calling anyone. And I had nothing to do. And I had no engagements. And the time that I would ordinarily have spent with her. Now I was like, just suddenly dawned on me. It's like, wow, now I've got to fill my time or something. And I remember feeling depressed. I remember feeling isolated. I remember feeling lonely. And that was just one weekend. And and I hadn't felt that way in months. It was just because the nature of the relationship had changed. So I could only imagine how awful it must feel for people who who suffer this type of feeling, or deal with this type of depression and anxiety and loneliness on an ongoing basis every day. For me, it was just it was like one weekend. And and I was like, man, I feel so alone and depressed and my life sucks. And you know what I mean, like it must be just it must be horrendous. I mean, tell me a little bit about what how what we're talking about here. Like if someone's depressed, what are they feeling? And how often are they feeling it? Man, I mean, you just nailed it on the head, James. Like, is the worst feeling you can possibly get? Like having depression? I mean, it's literally like you have zero hope for like your life, the future, your prospects, what's going on. It takes all the energy out of you. It takes all the excitement about life, all the enthusiasm, all the hope, as I mentioned, it just drains all that from you and fills you instead with like a sense of dread, like you dread everything, you're scared of everything, you're timid about things, you don't have any desires or passions, like it's the worst thing, like it's the worst sort of suction of all your emotions out of you. And it can last, you know, for people for years, even, you know, some people like they snap out of it, it takes, you know, like you said, a couple days or whatever, maybe a few months for people, but other people, they live with this for years, and it really just like ruins their quality of life. And for me, it thankfully was only, you know, a year, maybe a couple of years in total, like it kind of built up. But I was, I was one of those people that was able to overcome it. And I'm really fortunate that I was. So let me ask you this question. And this is a, this is a controversial question, which may have a, you know, controversial answer, depending on what your line of thought is, there's some people who subscribe to the theory that you're just born with it, there's nothing that that you can do. There's something in your brains and your neurology where you're just, you're just depressed, you're just prone to depression because something is not functioning or something is functioning a certain way in your brain, and that's just hereditary, and it's just the way it is versus there's people who say, well, that's not true. You can think your way out of it, you can act your way out of it, you can, there are certain practical steps that you can take, which, you know, which, which will make you much happier, which will cure you of this depression, that depression is just an illusion. It's like a, and getting out of depression is, is a tactic and a structure and a formula. So knowing what you know now of having been through depression, and now having come out of it with, it sounds like practical steps rather than medication. I don't, I'm not sure the story. What are your thoughts? Is it something we're born with, or is it, or not? Well, that's a great question, James. And to, to answer the question, I think truly that it's sort of a combination of both. It has a lot to do with your, with the biochemistry in your brain with the neurotransmitters, for instance. But on the other hand, it has a lot, a lot more actually to do with the things that you do in your life, your quality of life, the way you participate in your life, the steps that I'm going to go over, hopefully, I can get through all of them, but the steps that you can take to actually change the biochemistry, the neurotransmitters in your brain, and there's actually ways to do that both practically, and also through, you know, diet changes and supplements, we can get into that stuff, but you can literally change like the, the DNA structure, the cell structure, the neurotransmitters in your brain, the way they're functioning by the things that you actively do. So yeah, it has to do a portion of it, part of it has to do with the way you're born, and that's why some people are more predisposed to having depression, but also even these people who are more predisposed to having it or have it, there's ways that they can tangibly like change these, change the structure of what's in their brain. So it is biological, in your opinion, it is biological. It's what you do with your natural biology that makes the difference thereafter. It's like, you can either go, well, I'm, I have that, this is a predisposed condition or issue that I have, or I'm going to do these practical steps, and it will either limit it or get me over it. Is that right? Absolutely. And I know you have a background in doing a lot of different stuff too, you know, with helping sleep and stuff like that. And you're probably familiar with this more than a lot of others, that you can actually change the biochemistry in your body, like in your brain, you know, you change the hormone levels in your brain, which changes, you know, your mood, your attitude, your feelings. So even people who aren't necessarily predisposed, like for instance, I don't think I'm predisposed or I was predisposed for depression, but I was going through such a rut in my life where everything was just, you know, crappy was happening to me, that I think it changed on its own to these negative sort of traits in my brain, but I was able to flip it back by doing these things. So yeah, I think you can, I think anybody can positively change the sort of biochemistry in their brain. Okay. Well, that sounds hopeful. So I know you've got, I think you've got nine steps here that you talk to overcome major depression and how our listener and viewer can do it as well. So let's go over them, shall we? What are these nine steps? Sounds good. If you want, I can just kind of rattle right through them so we get them all out and then maybe hop back into a couple of them if you want to follow up on some. Does that sound good? Yeah, let's do it. All right, man. So the first one, step number one that really helped me actually like sort of understand the mindset and like get a grasp about what was happening to me, like this depression, because at first I thought, you know, I was getting these anxiety attacks, these panic attacks. I was really depressed, suicidal. I thought I was literally going crazy, like I was going to end up in a mental institution. So the first thing that helped me, believe it or not, was just realizing that I wasn't going crazy. Realizing that I was actually 100% normal and that a lot of people actually have these problems. There's studies out there anyway. I mean, they range, obviously, go to different places and different doctors will tell you different things, but there's studies that say up to 20% of the American population, and I'm in America right now, have some form of anxiety, panic disorder, 20%. And that's not even including depression. With the depression numbers, it's upwards of like close to 40% between anxiety or depression. So just kind of realizing that, not that they have it currently, but that they deal with it at some point in their lives. So just realizing that, and realize that I wasn't alone, I wasn't going crazy, and that if all these people have this thing, and that they've gone over it, there is a solution. There's not one solution. There's many solutions out there. Whether it's, you know, listening to something like this on this podcast, or listening to somebody else, it's just a matter of going out there and finding it. So that's step number one, realizing you're not going crazy and that you're not alone. Step number two. That is a big thing, right? Realizing that you're not alone. Because people like, like, I, I mean, it's funny, when I was feeling that, I actually told someone a few days ago, I had lunch with a friend here and in Hollywood, and I was telling him about how I felt that way on that weekend. And then he told me, he's like, man, I've struggled with loneliness and my entire life. And he's, he's, um, he's married and with expecting kids. And he's telling me that he feels socially isolated and lonely and depressed at times as well. And like, on the outside, everything's gray. He's got this model wife with kids on the way and everything. And then he's telling me that he's like lonely and depressed at times. Not, not in general, but at times he's prone to that. So realizing that you're not alone seems to be the, is the first step there. Okay. What's the second step? Yep. So the second step is either, um, there's three things. And it's kind of all in the same sort of mindfulness arena. It's hypnosis, meditation or yoga. You can do all three or a combination or just one of these. And I particularly am a big fan of self hypnosis. Um, so that's the one I choose of those three, but I've done all three of them. Um, this, you know, the studies out there is thousands of studies that, you know, advocate the, uh, just prove how effective meditation is along with yoga. So either one of those, just for your own mindfulness and sort of stress relief is going to be incredible for you. That's number two. Number three is living in the present moment. I'm a big Eckhart Toley fan and Eckhart Toley helped change my life. Like just the, the realization of living in the moment, what we have right now is a game changer. Like you don't worry about the future. You don't worry about what's going to happen tomorrow. I have all these anxiety problems of, of popping up about, you know, you're not good enough or you can't make it or you don't know where you're going with your life. Any of that stuff, you don't worry about the future and also the past of things you missed out on. Like you're not sad about not doing something or not being able to go somewhere or not being able to spend time with people. You don't worry about what's happened in the past or the future. You just live in the present moment, what we have right now. That's it. Number four is exercising four to five times a week. There's studies out there that say just regular exercise is more effective than anti-depressant medication. Like just that itself, that in and of itself. If you can start exercising regularly four to five times a week, it's going to change your life. Like people typically who have depression, not saying everybody, but a lot of people, a good majority of people who have depression aren't exercising enough. They're not exercising the right way and sometimes they're not exercising at all and this literally can contribute to your depression and it just shapes the entire physiology of your body when you're active, when you're doing things. You mentioned hormones earlier. I mean it can change your life by just having regular exercises. Number four. Number five is improving your sleep and again I know you're big on this subject James, correct? Yeah, I have a sleep company called Swannick Sleep. So yeah, I'm obsessed with sleep. Cool, so I mean your audience is pretty familiar with this. Seven to nine hours of sleep is typically what I recommend varies in person to person but I think more importantly is getting into a good routine, like cutting off distractions, having like your bed is sleep, like that's the place to sleep. You don't do laptop work on there, you don't read books, you don't watch TV. I mean you can do those things a little bit but if you really want to get into a good routine, you cut those things out, you eliminate them, you minimize the distractions as much as possible. Number six is improving your diet. This includes good fats, brain is made up primarily of fat, fatty acids, so having good fats, you know your coconut oils, your fish oils, etc, good protein, your lean protein, good carbs, not the starchy kind of crappy carbs that we have a lot in our western diet, but the good healthy carbs, you know vegetables, complex carbs, things like that. Number seven is take supplements if you need to and for me at this point in my life back then I'm having anxiety, depression problems, I needed supplements just to kind of help me out or even give me that sort of mental boost that I had like this extra thing. Instead of prescription medications, you know anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medications, I took things like magnesium, B complex vitamins, vitamin D, which I'm sure you've heard of seasonal depression that's people who don't have enough vitamin D, especially in New England where I'm from, in the winter fall time, we don't get enough vitamin D over here from the sun, so we have to take vitamin D. It's so important for your fish oil and then there's other things of course like valerian, 5-HTP, 5-Saint St. John's Ward, things like that that a little stronger than some of the other things, but if needed can also change you know your life and substitute the anti-depression medication. Number eight is actually getting out and socializing, the power of friendship like you mentioned earlier being alone the power of getting out of your own head and just meeting other people connecting with other people can totally change your life. This was the final like step I took as far as really getting out of my depression and really finding happiness, connecting with other people socializing, I became good at like attracting women, I made a lot of, I went on a lot of dates and just had a great time and this was really put me over that sort of the ledge of my happiness was connecting with other people and the ninth thing this is sort of the last step is finding a purpose, finding a goal something you want to do something you're really dedicated to doing with your life and for me that was helping other people after I get myself out of the rut I wanted to help everybody else who is in that rut as well and you know that's kind of how I stay happy is by following my purpose and my passion now. Okay well that's a good nine steps let's go over a few of them I'll just review them for you quickly number one realize you're not alone number two self-hypnosis meditation and yoga three living in the present in the present moment four exercising four to five times a week five improving your sleep number six improving your diet seven taking supplements eight socializing nine finding a purpose so it's funny isn't it like all these things that you just rotted off are actually it could be the same nine things for how to live a healthy healthy life how to like lose weight for example it could be it could be nine the same nine steps for how to how to be clear in mind or how to make a million dollars you know how to set yourself up to make a million dollars or to like be successful in business by getting your body right it could be the same things um it's it's so it like I've done this this podcast now for like two or three years coming up three years I think it is now and it's very similar stuff um good diet fish oil coconut oil good fats sleep well exercise regularly uh meditation is great doing some kind of yoga i've had yoga people on here socializing you know the power of getting out and socializing and then you know finding a purpose a lot of people suffer depression because they don't have a purpose I mean they can have everything else but if they don't know what the reason they're doing it for they can they can get depressed so I'm not saying that to to to diminish the nine steps what I'm saying is to reinforce that like there's a very very simple formula for being happy for being fit for setting yourself up for success and it's just good food good nutrition good friends meditation having a purpose that's kind of it really would you lay man yeah 100 man absolutely we all try to make it so damn complicated like I don't know what's wrong what do I do what's the secret formula I'll give you the secret formula eat well get sunlight get around friends express gratitude meditate have a purpose find a purpose do shit you like I mean there's I don't know I mean I don't want to labor the point but it's pretty simple really isn't it yeah totally is man I think problems really only happen when people sort of make it complicated or they think you know that these steps you know that they don't work they're too simple that they can't work you know it's so simple I need to take that antidepress and I need to take the anti-anxiety medication I can't just follow these steps you know of how to face my fears and panic attacks I can't do that because you know that's work that's you know that's it's going to take time it's not these things are all easy but it's not something that's going to happen overnight you know what I mean it's and it's also nine different steps it's not like you're just going to pop a pill and say oh you know I'll just take a pill and kind of chill out and you know kick in in 20 minutes and I'll be good it's no it's a process it takes a couple it takes days to get into a routine and then it takes months for this stuff to really you know take effect and change your life it's not going to happen overnight but come on Justin I just want to pop a pill can't I just pop a pill and be done with it why do I have to like self do meditation and exercise and eat well and take supplements and find a pet just give me a pill man can I have a pill yeah you can you can take the pill man absolutely but uh I think this way is a lot better it's a lot more natural it's a lot better in the in the long run it's a lot better for you yeah um now there's some people listening to this okay and who probably try I'll have tried some or many or all of those things but they still suffer from periods of depression because I know uh I know someone who's very healthy for the most part practices good health good nutrition supplements all that kind of stuff but this person still gets depressed um what what does that person do in those circumstances and I mean genuinely this person does all of those things realizes not alone meditates maybe not so much living in the present moment there's probably a bit of like future tripping and and past things in there but definitely exercising definitely actually the sleep is pretty poor to be honest now that I think about it but so there's there's a couple of things in there that aren't aren't quite there but what does that person do if they're like doing seven of the nine things we're doing nine of the nine things and they're still suffering from depression that's a great question man and uh honestly if that person if they're doing most of these things at that point you probably want to to take a look at their past there's probably some sort of uh unresolved issues that they haven't dealt with yet um you know this is where something like a professional like a psychologist and I I do recommend people check out psychologists from time to time I'm not necessarily big on the psychiatrist because they typically want to prescribe medication right away like I when I first got my panic attacks way back when um first thing they did before even asking me like any questions at all was like all right here's you know the anxiety I forget what it's called clonopins or something like I forget the name but you know here's the clonopins you know before even delving into any topics about why I'm getting it it's just right away hand it to you here's the medication so I typically will say talk to a psychologist there's nothing wrong with that at all sometimes people have baggage they're carrying around with and you know pops up and in all sorts of different ways you know self-sabotage self-sabotaging kind of things um you know there's issues that they haven't dealt with the issues that they haven't got out issues that they've never talked with someone else with just the power I actually was talking about this the other day with uh with the guest Maddie Moon about the power of releasing things that you've been holding on to for so long is incredible like getting it out there you don't need people's advice necessarily but just telling somebody else something like the truth sets you free that that can be a game changer in and of itself just telling people something that maybe you've been holding in or maybe you're guilty about or you have shame about typically in times like that where people do these steps but they still cannot get over their depression or their anxiety that they're holding on to something and a lot of the time just talking to someone can can help them release it yeah I mean I've been to uh psychologists um and I find it very therapeutic I find it you know it's great sometimes you know some most of the time the psychologists aren't even telling you stuff they're just asking your questions and the questions that they ask give you a design to to get you to answer in a way where you can start to figure things out yourself and you can start to dislodge some of the mental garbage that's stuck up in your brain I'm not a doctor I'm not a psychologist I'm not a psychiatrist but I can tell you that in my own experience having gone to a psychologist it's only beneficial never have I walked out of there going well that was a waste of 100 bucks or 120 bucks whatever you whatever you spend on it sometimes you can spend 200 but it just depends but I never walk out of there going that was a waste of time I always walk out of there going hmm oh yeah that's another way of looking that's interesting and a lot of times I think for me again I don't want to talk for everyone because I don't consider myself to have suffered real depression so I can't you know the people listening to this who really go through bouts of depression I don't I've never really been through that but I think that talking it through and getting and like with a psychologist or even just talking it through with anyone for that matter and having a good listener I certainly feel can help they've done these studies you know you know what the the biggest cause of pain and suffering is it's a it's the it's the loss of love it's actually like if you when you when someone breaks up with you or you lose a partner or whatever they say that the pain a broken heart is more painful than if you break your arm or your leg they say it's so painful and I interviewed a woman called Helen Fisher who's the world's leading anthropologist and she wrote a book called why we love and she puts out this sort of like seven step formula for getting over your heartbreak or and you know mending a broken heart and a lot of the stuff is very similar to what you what you just proposed with a few little changes which was getting new experiences so it was if you always went to the same restaurant or you do the same things with with the person that you just broken up with go to a new restaurant go and get a new set of friends go and take a different trip like new stimuli starts to like give you dopamine serotonin release which gets you out of that depressed mode she's also talking about like don't do what a lot of people do when they they sit in much romantic movies and eat Ben and Jerry's ice cream feeling sad and lonely because that sugar hit will like you know give you a quick hit for 20 minutes and then you'll crash and you'll feel shitty and you won't sleep well and then and then she's also talking about sunlight like sunlight is so important you're talking about vitamin D there Justin I have a D vitamin D supplement which is 10,000 IU which I think is the highest one I mean I live in Los Angeles for goodness sake it's we're recording this in November and it's like almost a hundred degrees outside of the moment I live in a place where there's sunlight all the time and even I still pop a vitamin D supplement because because I want to make sure that I'm getting that vitamin D in me because it makes you happy sunlight makes you happy it makes you happier it's proven like so yeah you see do you remember that movie Swingers back in the 90s with Vince Vaughn and yeah yeah do you remember he he the girl breaks up with him and and the character is sitting at home and he's in his room with those curtains closed and he's not answering the phone and finally his friend comes and grabs and said come on man let's get out of here and finally pulls him out into the light and then all of a sudden he starts to feel a bit better yeah I'm assuming the worst thing you can do is sit at home and feel sorry for yourself even though that in itself can sometimes feel comforting because you become you become used to the loneliness like you've come attached to the feeling of loneliness you become attached to the comfort of your own depression does that make sense yeah totally man and I help people out sometimes with getting over breakups and stuff too and that's literally the last thing you want to do is sit around at home I mean I love the the tip you brought you mentioned of you know having new stimuli going to different places trying new things you know checking out new restaurants also the thing I like to add is doing things that you always wanted to do but that you haven't done yet like for instance taking say an acting class an improv class a dance class like sometimes those things kind of get put on the back burner when you're in a relationship or you don't get to do it or your partner didn't want to do it like do all those things that your partner didn't want to do or those things that you wanted to do for years and just start you know that's the best way to put yourself out there not only are you going to make yourself happy with the new experience but you're also going to meet you know some really cool people in places like that what are some of these what are some of the drugs that that psychiatrists or doctors will prescribe to you if you are feeling depressed which even though you I don't think you're a doctor are you not a doctor no no which which you know probably might help you in the short term but long term will probably be bad for you or won't be beneficial like what are some of those standard drugs Zoloft I could think of that one yeah Zoloft I mean there's a ton of them I don't know why I can't pop any into my brain right now the anxiety ones that they call them keypins they actually take those ones you know like younger kids teenagers and stuff will take those anti-anxiety pills I call them keypins or keypills for like you know for like party drugs or whatever they take those to get like a change of state of mind like that's kind of the the power of these things like you have like two years old yeah trough and Neil Zambax Zambiax yeah who says seraphim paxil paxil in Nardil I'm just looking online here in depth level so so I mean look there's there's a couple different philosophies here right like there's western medicine philosophy there's natural remedies and things like that depending on who you speak to I'm not going to push my ideas on you but it's fair to say I think that while some of those drugs that we just routed off might help in the short term I think it's generally known that long term it's not it's not too not too flash for you yeah exactly man I mean they didn't have these things you know 7500 years ago a thousand years ago 500 take you know how did people survive the depression rate it's been going up like steadily in the last like 40 years you know how did people survive history human history before all this stuff before all these medications happen I mean they got over it they figured out other ways to do it the diet was better the nutrition was better their sleep was better our sleep on average has gone down like the last 20 years because artificial light for instance but also like TV people doing work laptops cell phones all that stuff keeps us up later at night keeps us also less exposed to the sun like you mentioned and it messes up our sleep habits it messes up our diet it adds more stress to us like those things are all contributing to your depression like fix those things and your depression will go away yeah all right Justin Stenstrom founder of elite man magazine and host of the elite man podcast Justin says realize that you're not alone make sure you do some self-hypnosis and meditation and yoga try to live in the present moments stop worrying about the future or lamenting the past exercise four to five times a week regular exercises is more effective than anti-depressive medication definitely improve your sleep you've got to cut off those distractions if you're a long-time listener of the James Swannick show podcast you'll know that you should wear a pair of blue light blocking glasses before you go to sleep at night to block the blue light so your sleep can be better improve your diet lots of good fats good fats means avocados raw nuts grass-fed butter coconut oil fish oil good carbs vegetables if you're going to supplement you want to take vitamin D it's particularly important if you suffer from seasonal depression which means you know if the winter is there and it's very and it's the days are very short you might feel it's feel depressed because you're not getting enough sunlight magnesium 5-HTP valerian can all help just getting out and socializing the power of friendship getting out there and connecting with other people I know whenever I'm feeling a bit down all I do is say to myself James go to where the people are and I just go to an environment where there are people and I start to get in the conversations and before you know what I'm feeling a lot better and then lastly find a purpose find a goal that you're dedicated to especially it especially works if it's helping other people certainly when I've gone and volunteered on those occasions I went to the West Hollywood Food Association about three weeks ago on a Wednesday night and I fed the homeless Los Angeles homeless I felt really good about it it felt great it actually I actually felt selfish because I was feeling good about helping other people but that's all right it was it makes you feel good because it gets you out of your own troubles and your own concerns and you start seeing people who are less fortunate than you man that's a powerful way to get out of of feeling feeling sorry now again if you if you clinically depressed and it's something a lot more serious than what Justin and I have spoken about please see a doctor but maybe not don't necessarily take the prescription drugs that they give you or do I mean like I said I'm not a doctor but if it's something a little bit more serious than that then I would just you know I would still say consult a doctor Justin thank you so much for your time mate I really appreciate where can we find out more about you James thanks a lot man I appreciate it for anyone listening I have a new show coming out December 5th so depending on when this podcast goes live I check my new show out it's actually called the Justin Stenstrom show it's just a sort of an additional show we're going to do along with the Elite Man podcast but uh that the show is going to have some really incredible guests and some awesome interviews so it's the Justin Stenstrom show on iTunes nice one well Justin thanks very much for your time I really appreciate it make sure that if you're listening or watching you follow me on Instagram please do leave a review I'm also on snapchat thank you for listening and watching and we'll catch you on the next one thanks