 What do I call you? President, Prime Minister, Foreign Minister, I've known you in every incarnation. My life is confused. But I know one thing you're thinking isn't. So it's a treat to be here with you at this critical time. I've been on a lot of panels and discussions this week about the Middle East, what to do about ISIS, how to advance the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, what to do about the post-Arab spring. I know you have thoughts about all of them. Cut through, if you can, for us the noise, the sense of fragmentation. And share with us how you think we begin to move this region forward again, because right now it feels stuck. Well, I think to fight terror, which is the spoiler of the region, we have to make three major efforts. One is to bring in the people, particularly the young people, 60% of the Arabs in the Middle East are below the age of 25, and they are open. To bring them in in the age of science, they cannot escape poverty without science. The second point is to call the task of religion the real name, because the terrorists are acting in name of religion. They say, cut the heads and save the world. Time has come that the religious people will answer. So the terrorists are vocal, and the religious are slow. Now, having a new spokesman for religion, the Pope, that affected the humanity, but all other religions, and now we are organizing an interfaith to bring back the values, not only the modernity. There cannot be technologically without having some spiritual basis and advisors. And the second is, the real force today is no longer governments, but global companies. Global companies don't have power, they have strengths. They don't have rifles, they don't have armies, and you cannot anyway gain science by arms or by war. They are based on good will, on good products, on trustworthy, on good names, and they have to convince that they are bringing back, paying back to the people, what the people are giving them. And their good name is very, very important, and I think they have another thing. They change the nature of democracy in three ways. Number one, democracy nowadays is not just the right to be equal, but the equal right to be different. They have legalized the differences in the world. Secondly, democracy is not just free expression, but self-expression. Young girl or young boy, free expression doesn't mean to them they have private form, but self-expression, to express their inclinations, their hopes, and by the way it's very hard to be a young girl or young boy nowadays. This is the second thing, and the third thing is to serve the communities. I mean the relations through governments have their limitations because they are full of history, of hatred, of suspicion, of fear. And for the reason many of the leaders are cowards, what we have is to bring the people in the picture, in making peace by dialogue. And the new age also has the advantage that you don't care reflex, so you don't create resentment, and they must understand if they won't participate in the fight against terror, terror will come to them. But they don't have to take rifles and go and fight their wars. They can help countries to overcome poverty, which is one of the reasons for terror. So I want to talk specifically about something that you know as well as anybody, and it's the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, which right now really seems dead in the water. Nothing happening. I know we're waiting for an Israeli election. But at the same time, even before that, it was dead. What do you think could break the deadlock now? Is there a new American role? What should Israel be doing? What should the Palestinians be doing? What should the Arab world be doing? How do we get out of this? The election in Israel will be over at some point. What can we do? Well, there are pens who will win the elections. There are actually two camps. One is for a two-state solution. And the other is for managing the crisis. I don't know, can you manage a crisis? If you can manage, you wouldn't have a crisis. And on the other hand... You should have tweeted that to somebody. And then, you know, the two-state solution is a condition to the existence of Israel. In democracy, you are a Jewish state only if you have a Jewish majority that you can count. No declaration can make you a Jewish majority if you are not a Jewish majority. That's well said. And the same is for the Palestinians. In fact, it was agreed, but in reality, the energy invested is very slow for different reasons. So we shall see the results of the elections, which camp will win, which idea will win. But there is no country anymore in the world that can do anything alone. Whether we like it or not. The globalty, which is the most important economic force, doesn't have a government. They will not order, say, to make a boycott. Neither can they stop it. So everybody is involved. And if you have relations, you must have relations with all people. And if you won't do it, you endanger your economy. And also, you endanger your security. Because if there is a million, 100 million Muslims, they have arms, they have armies, they have friends, one of them have a nuclear bomb. But they have a reason to fight terror like we. Terror is destroying the Arab countries more than anybody else. If I were an Arab and I would ask myself, where is the greatest danger? Israel or terror, I would answer terror. Because terror is destroying country after country. The world of empire is over. And I think the new world of companies is following the American philosophy, namely to be great, give, not just take. And then I think the global companies can really help the Arab world to enter the new age. We shall participate. We don't come in with flex so we don't raise resentment. Globality doesn't care flex. I mean, there's a big debate in America and in Israel over how to think about the issue of Iran. One school says keep sanctioning them until they break and say uncle and somehow abandon their nuclear program. Another school says strike a deal with them. It won't be a perfect deal. You won't get everything you want. But you'll begin a different process there of Iran engaging with the world at a depth and scope that we haven't seen before. And that will drive long-term change. How do you look at this issue? There's a debate within Israel. It's obviously a debate within America. I think we have to bring an account not just to one consideration, but several. I'm not sure that the young generation in Tehran is really at the same mind as all the leaders. And we can see a revolt of women and youngsters. They won't stop. I think the Middle East will be changed finally by young people and women because they are victims of the present state. So we have to encourage them and work with them. And they will play a role. I don't know. Globality doesn't that we watch. We are not in Switzerland. There are things that are running fast and things that are late, but they are moving, all of them. So I mean I wouldn't close my eyes to the social development. Secondly, Iran is facing a very demanding economic problems. Not only because of sanctions, but also very much because they are short of water. They are going to have a real problem in a very short while. And the price of oil goes down. So it's very hard to be great and be poor at the same time. And also sanctions have another effect, which is very important. You know, I asked the South African people, how come they gave up power? The clerk told me, look, when the sanctions were declared, we checked our position economically and we found out no problem. We can manage the sanctions. But what we didn't bring in account is the fact that South Africa became separated from the rest of the world. Nobody want to come to South Africa. Nobody want to go because football or whatever it is, they were totally alone. And it says it makes life impossible. That can happen to Iran as well. And clearly it must be, we have to keep the international agreement too. And I think right now Iran is testing what is the maximum and America is testing what is the minimum. And we shall see. I think nobody is safe against changes or surprises. So they fix dates. Let's wait the date. For us it is a world problem, not just Israeli problem. And we have to be with the world, with the responsible world. Because if we shall do alone, we shall remain alone. I want to ask you a personal question. How old are you? Right now, 91 years old. 91 years old. I'm 61 and I'm struggling to keep up with you. I'm taking notes as fast as I can. What is your secret? Do you eat a lot of yogurt? Do you play a lot of tennis? What is your secret? I'll tell you. Count the number of achievements in your life. Then count the number of the dreams in your brain. If the number of the dreams exceeds the number of achievements, you are young. Otherwise you are old. Fantastic. But a little yogurt? You eat a lot? A little yogurt? It's not yogurt, it's self-discipline. Interesting. On everything. You must be self-disciplined. And you must decide what makes you healthy, what makes you sick. And do it. So I'm self-disciplined on all accounts. My weight, my itinerary. And I'm all the time engaged. I recommend not to take vacations. Vacations is the most boring thing. You take a dog and you sit on the sea. My God, what are you doing there? The most interesting thing in life is to work. For that reason I said that self-expression is more important than free expression. And I'm busy all the time. I don't have a moment. And by the way, I don't believe in Freud. Freud tried to make each of us a complex. I don't feel myself as a complex. I feel myself as a human being. Who is quite happy, optimistic, engaging and serving other people as well. And even with Kissinger, whom I admire, I don't think the problem is only power. The problem is really as a spiritual side. And the greatest thing in life, the wisest thing in life, if you want really to have a good life, be honest, man. Nothing is wiser than be honest. Better to be honest than to be rich, believe me. Well, thank you. As I was walking here and thinking about what to talk to you about, I think of you as a young man, 29 years old, working with David Ben-Gurion, negotiating the nuclear deal with France. And France is now obviously in the news in a very tragic way in recent weeks. And the French Jewish community as well. And I've read calls from Israel to say French Jews should all move to Israel. Would Israel really be safer in a world where all French Jews moved to Israel? How do you think of that issue? The tension between Israel as a homeland for all the Jewish people, a place that would gather them, provide them both safety and opportunity. But also the importance of Jews as part of the global diaspora. That's also part of Israel's security as well. How do you think about that issue? I think a Jew must try to live freely in a free world. The reason why we called for the Jewish people to go to Israel is not just because there's anti-Semitism. But for 2,000 years, half of our existence, we are strangers in the town. And we are persecuted. It's a wonder for 2,000 years without a land under our legs. Really the Torah kept us more than the land in a way. But we paid heavily for it. So we decided the time has come that we should not be strangers, but we should have a home like anybody else. So it's a renaissance. It's not a protest. And Herzl was born before the Shoah. There was then a debate between the some Jewish people who became communists or socialists and others who became Zionists. The others say communists. Say the world is wrong. You have classes, you have rich and you have poor. Let's change the world. The others, the Zionists, it's impossible to change the world. The communism made, you know, best botanics, not to believe in the Lord, not to believe in the classes, everything. We have to change ourselves. So it's not a protest against anybody. It's a correction for our own future. And that's it. So we don't push, we don't accuse. And every Jew can live wherever he wants. Antisemitism is not a Jewish sickness. It's a non-Jewish sickness. And every Sikh let him go to the doctor. Because he makes the whole nation sick. So that's it. And I won't condemn a Jewish person that lives in France or lives in America. It's his right. But they say, let's keep our house that has both land and gospel. The speciality of the Jewish life in my judgment is that the Jews under Moses was very much to the left, as you know, said every person has the right to be equal. And Moses was the first to protest the world. Since then the Jews were never satisfied with the world. They tried to change it. And you cannot be a Jew unless you are unhappy. Or dissatisfied at least. You try, because you try to improve the world, to have what you call tikkun olam. And that's of all attractions in the world. Health, strength, wealth, whatever you want. The real attraction, the major attraction of the Jewish people is the moral call. All things disappear, disappoint. Morality lasts forever. So there aren't many people I can ask this question. What would the David Ben-Gurion whom you knew as a young man and worked for, what would he be advising the Israeli people and government to do today? Clearly he would go... I mean he went for the two states. Ben-Gurion was a very lonely person. Lonely. Lonely. Because the map that the United Nations has proposed to us was a terrible map. It didn't leave us with much land or water, nothing. And people say, how can you accept such a land? And Ben-Gurion said, yes, we accept. It was urgent because it was immediately after the show, after the war. Ben-Gurion went to visit the camps. By the way, he was accompanied by General Eisner whom he admired. Eisner told him, stop Ben-Gurion, have a good look at the people that remain alive. People will forget it and the world is close to them. So that would make him urgent. The man, Ben-Gurion, was totally innocent. He could be sharp, he could be polemic, but basically, what he said, he believed in. And he said to work with Ben-Gurion, you have to have at least knowledge about two important principles. Never lie. Never stop daring. Never lie, never stop daring. Yes. Because you know, when we have our dream about Israel, we thought we have a great dream. The implementation exceeded the dream. Since then, I'm afraid about small dreams. I mean, we should have dreamed greater and larger. And now we have to dream great and large like the world is dreaming. Science doesn't have limitations. And by the way, Ben-Gurion used to say, all experts are experts for things that did happen. Some have an expert for things that may happen. And then I learned from the economy. So he was a great economist like myself. Both of us didn't have that idea. What did I learn from him? I would come to him. He was the minister of defense. I was the director general, later on, his deputy. I would come into him and say, Ben-Gurion, let's do this and that. He said, how much will it cost, the great economist? I told him a million dollars. He says, a million dollars. Where are we going to take the money from? Okay. Three weeks passed, I came to him and said, Ben-Gurion, let's do this and that. He asked me, how much will it cost? I said, 50 million dollars. Oh, he says, that's nothing. If it was for something, it is cheap. If it was against something, it's expensive. That was the economy. A lot of wisdom in that. When we look at the map of the Middle East, 50 years from now, let's forget, set aside for a second, what Israel will look like on that map. Do you think that there'll be a place called Iraq on that map and a place called Syria on that map? Not the Iraq that used to be. Not the Iraq which it is, but a different Iraq. I think all countries in the future, instead of counting how many square miles we have, they'll start to count how many scientists you have per one square mile. Because land in itself doesn't produce. And we don't have land. Our greatness comes from technology and science. From the human being. And now, you know, Bob Hope, many Americans remember his humor. He says he doesn't understand why the British do drive on the left hand. So he bought a car, he went to London, and he tried to drive on the right hand. He says, I immediately understood the British. When the world is driving in one way, you cannot drive in the other way. And that what will happen, you know, there are 400 million Arabs in the Middle East. As I said, 60% are below the age of 25. I'm not sure that the whole generation will change. And if they would change one thing, they would immediately change their economic situation. And that is the discrimination of women. The World Bank published now a survey that says if Egypt would give free rights to women, the GNP of Egypt would grow by 34.6%. It's more than all the foreign aid. But President Obama every time asked me, who is against democracy in the Middle East? I told him the husbands in the name of Allah. But the young generation, the students, they don't discriminate. A girl student by a man's student. And that's one of the reasons, I believe, that why in Tunisia there were a lot of students, or cure the change. So I believe technology, age, and the moral approach will change everybody. We are still living in the old age. We have an old mind in a new age. When we come to the end of the session, I want to conclude by asking you one last question. No one has lived the history of Israel more than you have. What doesn't the world understand about Israel? What would surprise the world most? You could sit the world down and say, look, I've seen this country from beginning to end. Here's what you don't understand. Well, clearly there are remnants from old anti-Semitism. From the age, remember that for 2,000 years the Jews were hated because they were Jews. Christianity is not what is today. And the Islam too. There was a very short period. And the other thing, I believe that people got the idea the Jews are either smart, or the Jews are either rich, they are privileged, they misuse things, which is nonsense. And we didn't understand the others too. We thought the others will accept our contribution. They didn't understand, they looked upon it as an enemy. And the problem is the small size of the land and the great holiness of it. The Temple Mount, the three largest religions, serves as a holy place. The size of the Temple Mount is two square kilometers. Two square kilometers. Billions of people are concerned about every stone. And it's clear, I mean, the first to make Jerusalem the center, the holy center, was David, the Jewish people. Only later came in the Christians, which Christianity was created by a Jewish guy. And then came the Muslims. All of them the same Lord, but with a different nationality, or a different claim, or a different explanation of it. So the small place. And also Israel has nothing, you know, when we came. We didn't have land, it's a tiny piece of land. We didn't have water. We have two lakes. One dead, the other is dying. We have a river, which is very famous, the Troll River, but that's the water. There's only fame without water. We had swamps in the northeast Mosquitoes. Desert in the south with stones. With nobody you could have a dialogue. We didn't have oil, we didn't have gold, nothing, you know. And people didn't understand what's happening. I mean, our greatness is coming from nothing. They said in the Middle East there were two sorts of countries. The oily countries and the holy country. We were a holy country, I show you. We have nothing of the oily part of it. And Israel is really an example where people have reached the land, not the land and reached the people. In spirit, in sacrifice, in devotion, in having a commitment to values. Ushiman, thank you very much. You know, there's a saying in Hebrew, ad mea vesrim. You're so stingy. You should live to 120, but you're one of the few people I say ad mea vesrim and I think, and I hope I'll be there to conduct the interview. So thank you very much. Thank you very much.