 so you should be good. Use hashtag identity week and then if you'd like to tag us and follow us as well it's at Mr. Samuel French and just to note that next week because of identity week we're shifting and changing our Twitter handle to at Samuel French NYC so if you see that change that's why. Get the Wi-Fi everybody's good I see looking on phones awesome and yes also we're so excited for our panelists and moderators so I'm going to hand it over to them now Adam Hettrick is our moderator for today the editor-in-chief of playbill.com go ahead and sneak in and we're going to bring them out on stage and get started have fun thank you for joining us nice to see all of you my name is Adam Hettrick I'm the editor-in-chief of playbill.com we're thrilled to partner with Sam French this week this year for identity week this evening I'm joined by an incredible group of panelists all of whom I will let introduce themselves to you tonight. My name is Donny Sianciato and my pronouns are he, him, his. Hi my name is Puyo Mohseni and I'm a her if there ever was one. Hi I'm Bianca Lee she, her. Hello I'm in Joe Rodriguez and she and her are very perfect to me. Hi I'm Azure Diaz Born Lee I'm he, him or they, them. This evening we'll be discussing a lot of some topics that cover the identity and lives of transgender artists on stage and off and I think we had a chance to speak backstage a bit something we wanted to start off on is sort of the claiming of the trans identity and how that blossoms as an artist and how that opened up artistic channels for each of you in your own personal lives and your professional lives. Well for me it was something I didn't necessarily anticipate happening I had you know been an actor my whole life and gone to college for musical theater and that was before I had come out and started transitioning and when I did that I was 30 years old and I kind of thought well there goes my musical theater career because you know my voice is going to change and who's going to hire the trans guy and about four years later I saw an open audition call for a show called Southern Comfort at the Public Theater that said they were specifically looking for transgender actors and I had not really done anything for four years because of the transition and so in my case you know when I thought that transitioning was going to be the thing that closed the door and shut off any opportunities that totally opened this this door for me and I ended up getting the part moving from Arizona to New York to do the show and have worked here now a couple of times because they're looking specifically for transgender actors so here I thought that I was shooting myself in the foot by coming out instead it was one of the best career choices I could have made. I transitioned many years ago about 18 19 years ago and at that time New York was less accepting so my aspirations of being an actor and model at that time were rather futile people wouldn't return my phone calls and all of that so I left the business because at that time I saw there was really no room for me and I really wanted to transition that's why I had come to this country to be able to do that and many years later kind of acting found me and at this point I had transitioned and I was living comfortably in stealth and then about a year ago about a year and a half ago I started thinking that it's not enough I have to come out I want to come out I need to have a voice and the day that marriage equality was passed at Supreme Court I decided this is the day and I thought well you know my acting career okay goodbye whatever I have this is going to be it I publicly came out and wouldn't you know that was not it it like like Donnie was saying it gave this other side to my career but not just my acting career I got to talk about things that were important to me talk about things that I felt weren't being talked about and I got to talk about it with authority not in a third person kind of voice so I feel me coming out opened different avenues to me as an artist and also gave me a voice to share with other people as a trans woman who was also a performer and a writer and I'm very grateful for that voice hi well I'm not going to be quite as positive so buck your seatbelt no just mine um for me it's a double-edged sword I transitioned over 30 years ago I was five years old no um yes you were yes you were I was the first trans child and I remember you know my acting teacher Rutgers she said okay that's what you want to do do it but stick with theater you know slip in there because Hollywood wants nothing to do with it they're much more conservative out there and they're much more free so I moved to New York um and I think one of the things I I knew I always identified as female always um but I did go to acting school um as male one of the things that kept coming back to me every time we did a scene or I was cast in a show I didn't get the part that I really wanted the part that I really wanted was a female so really kind of convinced me that that truly is how I identify those that's the perspective that I share um so I transitioned and I was very young and a little naive um I was lucky enough doors were closed to me I was very lucky there's a very thin layer of theater um you have the legit you know equity stuff and then you have all that stuff that doesn't pay and then there's a small layer that does pay and it's usually from grants things like that and I was able to be a working trans actress for many years in New York nothing huge nothing that would blow your socks off but I was very grateful for that and for all the downtown artists that cast me and collaborated with me um my goal is one day not to be seen as a trans actress but as an actress who knows her shit who happens to be trans and I think that is you know where a lot of people you know uh when it comes to alternative casting you want to be cast because of your talent um the dream is to have a character that happens to be trans or isn't necessarily trans or may not be trans um sometimes when you keep playing trans characters sorry I don't want to look at gift horse in the mouth but you sort of end up saying some of the same kind of things over and over and you think I am a transsexual I don't want to play one over and over and over I'm going to play everything doctors lawyers you know astronauts all these different stories that's why all of us got involved in this to begin with so on the one hand I'm thrilled that the doors are I know I'm talking about sorry but I'm old the doors are opening up and and people want to help and they want to write these characters and they want to cast us more and more and I think that's great and I'm very happy for that but like I said I I I would I want more um that was beautiful um for me um I had always thought of myself as you know a little girl in my mind I had always thought of myself as a little girl for ever since the age of seven and I knew I was like praying to God like please make me this like wonderful girl and then I found out down the line um that was going to happen but it wasn't going to happen like how I expected it to I was going to magically wake up a woman one day I had to become one um and that one of those most defining moments for me well actually before that defining moment I had a long process of figuring that out when I had gotten a show it called rent and I played angel and I was playing one of my dream roles but I'm at that point it wasn't enough for me in my mind I was going into you know I was leaving out of the backstage door and I was seeing all these people and they saw me as someone that I I didn't see myself as and I was like okay this has got to change I started getting you know trans roles but it still wasn't enough until five years down the line when I decided to chemically transition and um started taking HRT going on HRT and really figuring out time and thinking about who I truly wanted to be for myself and not anyone else that's when it happened and um recently I had gotten called in for a cis role and I thought it was the most beautiful thing ever because one it shows that this world is changing and then that they're starting to see us as normal individuals because we are and um other role that I got called in for a Peggy for Hamilton and um I got a final call back thank you and it was it was the most defining moment in my life because it showed diversity within the musical theater realm and that there is a possible chance that there will be soon someday a trans woman or a trans man on on a Broadway stage it hasn't happened yet but it will happen soon and I think that was one of the most amazing moments in my life and as a trans woman it it speaks volumes it speaks volumes say yeah um so I'm just gonna ask you to repeat the questions I was asking everyone um how uh claiming your trans identity also helped the way your artistic identity uh came forth and bloomed I mean I yet to be seen I don't know I don't know that it's helped uh but I feel like it it is it is a part of who I am uh so I started out in theater as a performer as an actor and sort of my freaky weird kid's story is that you know like I read a lot of sci-fi and fantasy and also have always been very willful and so you know when I was in middle school I just insisted that I should be considered for all roles you know like male or female you know it's like whatever I can play anything and so uh you know I played Squire Trelawney and Treasure Island as well as the voice of everyone who fell overboard uh from backstage so I would just like give this big manly yell um and uh my parents just kind of let me do what I wanted to do I mean they're they're engineers and I think they were just happy that I was out of trouble for the most part and uh goodness I have a story that I tell in high school about coming to school one day and I was dressed like half as half man half woman and everybody's like did your parents see you and I was like yeah I drove to school with my dad because I was getting my learner's permit um and so I identify as non-binary I'm not a binary trans person uh and so fast forward and until my like mid-20s I'm getting ready to go to school for experimental theater in London I'm back home in Texas watching True Blood and then I was like oh shit uh I've realized something about myself and I'm not going to deal with this right now because I'm getting ready to move to London so I moved to London I did that um realized that I was trans and needed to transition but didn't tell anybody because I was like I don't even know if I'm going to talk to you people anymore you know after I leave here I was very clear I'm not going to stay in London so I came back to New York City and and for me there was really a pause in my arts career I feel like for many trans people you know the decision to medically transition is a decision to take a step back um from working in the way that you're familiar with working uh and so that's when I really I became an arts administrator which is very important to my career as an artist and very much who I am as well as an artist I'm an arts administrator um and so now I'm writing plays people are asking me to audition for stuff which is kind of weird to me because I haven't really you know like I don't even have like recent headshots really like my headshots are from like when I was like 24 um and so living as a woman uh I have like a selfie it's very nice selfie but it's a selfie but anyway because I do things like this and people are looking for oh especially if they're looking for any kind of like black trans male actor like geez I will get that casting notice like that breakdown will come across my desk 25 times because people don't know where to find them right so now people are I actually have an audition next Saturday because people are like you want to come audition for this show and I'm like I guess I will do that and they're asking me to include me and things and I to be honest with you I do feel like it's part of the trendiness of transness but I also understood when I stepped away from acting when I was living as a black woman that there was a limitation of the roles that were available to me and that I was not prepared to be in a situation where I would be judged based on my looks and like this black don't crack like I'm 32 I look good you know like and I don't look old enough to play the roles that are out there and I knew that about myself you have to know what you look like if you're an actor in this town you know you have to know um so yes I'm getting asked to do things because I'm trans but also I feel like people get asked to do things all the time for reasons that don't have anything to do with how talented they are or how hard they work who they know what they look like what door they walked in how much money they have so while I do get asked to do things because I'm trans that's fine I'll take it especially if it pays well um and I'd like to ask something that you all touched on the sort of intersection of um being trans and uh politics and there's sort of like there's power invisibility right now but as you said there's also a great desire to move beyond strictly being cast in trans roles or only telling trans stories um where do you feel you are now as a community as an individual and is there an ultimate goal that that one day that I know for Puyo you certainly say that it was a very political act for you to identify and come out as you say um are you ready to move on beyond this story beyond this identity is there a day that you hope that you get to move on well I'm I'm going to start this because there was something Bianca said and it actually pertains to what you asked you know there was a time that I thought I don't want to play trans characters but before I came out I didn't want to be thought of remembered as a trans actor but Viola Davis will never be asked to play a white woman because there is a range of female characters that can be African-American and they can be varied and they can have different temperaments they can have different backgrounds but nobody would ever say well aren't you tired of playing black woman or or Meryl Streep playing a white woman I am a trans woman I I embrace it I have worked so hard to get to where I am I have I have bled and and cried and have seen people um that their voices are never going to be heard I have no problem now playing a trans character what I do have a problem with is that people seem to think there's only one kind of trans character and there isn't there are trans doctors there are trans engineers there trans mothers there are trans hookers there are um there are people who transition much later in life well you know I always say it's a matter of how much you get paid but I think for me personally and and I always want to say this because even though we all happen to be trans I promise you there's no trans agenda if there is nobody sent me they invite uh there's no such a thing as transgenderism I hate that word I really hate that word it's not a word it's it's really there's no ism there's no ism you just said there's the same way there's no straightism or gayism unless there is I'm not aware of it it isn't adjective it's not a noun yes you don't transgender into something you are um and when I look at that I think I would like to be that voice um not necessarily for something political because we happen to be part of the fabric of society some of us are mothers some of us are single some of us um have had an easier time transitioning it you know again we come I mean look at us that there there is five of us here and we all have a very different journey that has brought us to here sure if somebody wants to cast me in in assist character because um essence wise uh and uh you know like talent wise I'm right for it I wouldn't say no I mean you know especially if they pay um that that will totally be great I mean you know um but if somebody remembered me as someone who played many variations of a trans character and it got to show the audience that we come in all different colors we come from all different backgrounds we don't all sound the same we don't all look the same then then that would be something that I would be proud of and yes like Bianca said I would like the day where we move past that but I would like to at first get to the point that there is more than two variations of a trans character and then move beyond the fact that okay we can realistically expect our audience to see an actor they know to be trans and have them believe that this character can play a non-trans character at this point most of our audience has a problem looking at a gay character and imagine that they could be in love with a woman on the screen so part of that is you know seeing where we are and looking at where the next step is for me personally the next step is asking playwrights asking casting directors to see us as varied we don't sound the same we don't I mean even here we are not even all from the same ethnicity and I would like that before being allowed to play something other than just a trans character you know for me there was nothing political about theater you know I was a kid that was starstruck I thought I wanted to be a movie star and then I went to an acting conservatory that was theater-based and I fell in love with that and you know all I wanted to do was play mad margaret and blanche duois and you know like any other actor I had you know that's what I wanted and after transition of course that complicated things but I remember when I first started out none of us thought it made any sense to transition and then tell people about it on paper it doesn't make any sense you know why would you go through all of this and then just tell people I'm not really what I appear to be and over time that began to change because in real life it is better because for many of us for some people's stealth works just fine but for many of us secrets are corrosive and I remember one day my friend I had gotten what we call spooked which means somebody you know clock me clock spooked whatever and I was very upset and I cried to my friend and because just you know when you see that look in someone's eye when they see you as one thing and then your value diminishes in their eyes that's very painful and it's the reality for for for most of us we've seen that we've gone through that and my friend said you know what what did this person know this person knew that you were a transsexual we didn't use the word transgender back then this person knew that you were a transsexual so what you are a transsexual and and and then people group started popping up support groups and people were were being out and trans women and trans men and the idea of yes this is what I am and I don't give a flying what people think you know and I think you know that so that the political the personal became the political and I don't you know a lot of the things that I have done and been asked to do are very socially conscious you know and that's great that's fine I mean there's always a part of me that just wants a good juicy role you know but a lot of that activism has has rubbed off on me and you know I see it I see with my sisters I see without how beautifully Laverne has stepped up to the plate and yeah I mean we now look at roles we look at scripts we're asked to look at scripts that we're not necessarily going to work on and ask for our feedback and we give it you know so there's many times I've been in a show where I've had to say okay I'm not speaking to you as an actress I'm speaking to you as a trans woman okay now that issue is done now I'm going to put my actress back on you can tell me sure and can you repeat sure no I was just asking about the sort of intersection of political of self-identification and also wanting to move beyond that and to play a gender specific role you know what when I officially like affirmed it and owned myself I had no problem with anyone knowing I was transgender and I took pride in that because I worked just as we all say as transgender individuals we work so hard to be who we are and most importantly to just fit in a space where we can feel normal because we are normal um as you you put yourself in a situation and you you when you go into uh for instance an acting of acting scene or anything you don't want to be placed into a space where you're one you're wondering you don't want that you want to feel completely normal I would love I personally would love to see more day-to-day things that have to do with trans people and that they have regular relationships you know I mean you don't see that often there are small uh there are small groups that have that but you don't see it as often I would like to see that more and broadcast it on news on television because people need to see that it happens you can get married you know you don't have you're not alone for the rest of your life like that's just not what trans people do and that's what the masses think and that's never the case that's never the case we can book jobs we can have relationships we can have kids and we can survive we can live let me fix that we can live that's what we can do live joyous and free exactly we can live joyous and free and there's there's nothing wrong with that and I think that trans people who are um feeling some type of way about being quote unquote trended I think it should kind of be dropped a little bit because it is shedding light on us and it's creating a space of comfortability because if it wasn't happening none of this would be possible we wouldn't be able to sit up here and talk about our stories that's I have to you know agree with that and and I think that if you're an out transgender person um publicly living your life whether you are trying to or not you are making a political statement you are involved in that discussion and it's you know I never set out to be a transgender activist or advocate if you told me a year ago that I'd be sitting here right now doing this I wouldn't I mean it wouldn't have been on my radar um but it's not something that I would say no to because it's important and and needs to be done but I still just want to be an actor like when it's all said and done book me in a show pay me to do what I love to do and what I studied to do and I'll be happy I just happen to be an actor who is transgender and in a way that has benefited me because it is trending right now and it is you know the a topic of conversation and you know whether whether you're familiar with whether you watch orange is the new black you know that there's a transgender character on that show whether you like Caitlyn Jenner you know who she is um you know five years ago that wasn't the case at all and so just by having these conversations we are being political even though we're all really saying or what it sounds like we're all saying is we just want to work you know like please just book us in theater or film or something that's what we're here for but we're also trans so we're going to talk about this too so you kind of it's hard to separate um the politics from your personal life well and take us into the rehearsal space and the audition room because I think there's a lot of communication that's an education certainly from casting directors artistic directors people who basically are the gatekeepers what are some of the conversations you would like to have I know that there was Donnie you did Southern comfort at the public theater and there was some discussion at the time when cisgender actors were cast in trans roles in that production um let's talk about what the conversations you would like to have with artistic directors with casting directors um what let's talk about it I could talk about that forever um I think you know uh the the first place to start it's such an obvious statement is that we need to see more of an effort we need to see casting directors and agents and directors make more of an effort if they're looking for a transgender character specifically prove it show us um you know like in in southern comfort's case uh it was at the public and it was an equity show and I was not equity but they held open auditions so I was able to audition for that part and play a transgender character I had to join equity but um you know it opened a door for me because they asked and I don't remember having seen another casting call like that and that's not to say that there wasn't one at a at a different theater or another city but that was the first time that I saw a casting call where I went wow they're looking for me and that's four or five years after I'd given up doing this because I didn't think anybody was ever gonna look for me and the the impact not just on my career but on me personally as a as a human and as somebody who you know being transgender even when it's trendy it's not easy um we have you know a lot of things that we have to go through and and stupid discriminatory things about where you can pee and where I mean just you all know uh so to have somebody say I see you I'm acknowledging you I'm asking you to come be a part of this for me personally was um just an absolute blessing so it's not just a matter of like accurate casting that we're asking for like you can change the world you can change the world for a person my whole world changed a year ago for the better because of that uh opportunity so when we say we want to see more from you as a casting director as an agent it's not just because we really want that part it's because you can help move the world in a better direction and I don't think you know when when you're looking at something through a business lens and you're like okay I need a big star for this role or I need somebody who's going to sell tickets you're not necessarily thinking of the impact that you can have on the little guy on the little trans guy he was living in Tucson Arizona a year ago you know you don't think about that but um I feel like this is the arts community everyone is welcome you know this is probably it's this is not math or um politics or even like engineering you know this is the arts it collects the people who aren't welcome in other places and I feel like it's our responsibility to keep casting a wider net to bring in more people um because that's what makes this so great and that's what attracts people to a career in the arts so personally I would love to see more theaters take that first step because we're obviously here um so use us find us we want we want to be found uh that's what I would like to see happen with agents and directors and such I'm Jim before we get to I'd like to ask i church as well um as a playwright um where would you like to see doors opening um so this is a compound answer so I didn't answer the last question which was about politics and I want to say that um I definitely identify as a political person like from jump like I studied women's and gender studies you know in grad school um although I was I felt galvanized by theater actually the vagina monologues like which I did like five times uh in college really for yeah it was like I was in it four times and directed it once it was a co-directing thing it was terrible but uh don't don't have four directors for a show but um but it was that that really I wasn't sure what I wanted to study in grad school and I was like women's and gender studies and then I went back to grad school for experimental theater and I think that yes like my my being influences my politics right because I want to have a nice life as I say when I go to things like undoing racism like as a black queer person you know who's trans and and fat non-binary etc I would like to have a nice life I would like to have a family and not you know be afraid of them being murdered you know in the streets etc and so that is inherently political but but I'll also say that for me it's all about allocation of resources like I feel like people act very confused when it comes to allocation of resources right like they're down with you until they're like wait you want me to do something with the resources that I have access to um outside of what I've already been doing right so so I feel like I'm very clear on this I actually was at the um the town hall on gender which was in response to southern comfort at the public uh because the public theater got yelled at a lot forecasting uh cis people and trans roles right um which frankly like I heard what they had to say still no excuses for it stop stop doing it stop doing it not it's not that hard actually stop as an administrator I understand the process and still stop it um so as a playwright I have to say stop programming plays by cis people about trans people there's not enough slots in the season we don't have enough resources for that nonsense maybe one day when all of us are just working and taking our pick and trying the different fruits of our labor and putting the fruit down and saying no that's not for me I think I'll pass on that one thank you then then we can talk about maybe programming these sort of things or casting cis people in trans roles but we don't have in this capitalist society that we've set up enough resources for all of that nonsense so stop doing that and and if you want a play about trans people then look for some trans writers because also I'll guarantee you the roles will be more complex interesting and better juicier parts for our talented friends here right that's what I have to say about that I just want to piggyback on that it is absolutely true for many many groups in theater and and motion pictures that you know people talk about is it you know is it appropriate does it help the storyline the truth is trans actors one first crack of the trans roles black actors one first crack at the black roles asians differently abled people we want the work we need the work and we're asking for it and pretty strongly too right and can I just also say I agree with you as far as that and I want to go specifically into who they cast as far as the transgender role which are cisgendered men I have nothing against cisgendered men but I don't have anything against cisgendered men but I do have something against some plain trans roles I would rather a cisgendered woman go into a role as me versus a cisgendered male reason being is because that retracts to us as trans women or vice versa trans men but specifically towards trans women it retracts to us as men in dresses when men play roles for us and that's disrespectful to us and I know that's blunt but it's true and that's why we need to alleviate that thought process of what the masses think when they do that they create the space of the people thinking oh yeah that's they're supposed to be noticeable no that's not the case we come in all array of things we call it come in all different shapes and sizes and that should not be the case for them to just be like we should be detectable that's disrespectful if we were played by a cis woman I mean we had a wonderful actress um Julianne Huffman Huffman Felicity Huffman Felicity Huffman excuse my name excuse my name yeah Felicity Huffman she played I thought she did a wonderful job as playing a trans woman and I think she did justice to it and not to mention she was a cisgendered woman um a lot of these men that play these roles it's almost like a mockery it's almost like a mockery and it's almost like they're doing drag and that's what not what we as trans women are and vice versa if there was a woman to play a trans male role that shouldn't happen can I do a tiny bit back on that yes I promise I'm gonna keep this short this summer I got I got cast as um as a recurring guest star on a new show on USA the casting was looking for a trans person they originally wanted a trans male then they expanded they wanted it to be a trans character and in the character breakdown they had also said that we want this character to be a trans character but we will never comment on the fact that this character is trans and that is the comment that we're making and I was fortunate enough you know I I was the right type I had the right energy I cast the role and for a long time because I've had experiences I'm sure um my brothers and sisters here have had you know this idea that you don't look trans enough which is basically we have this idea of what a trans person looks like and you're either too feminine or not feminine not really you know whatever that is um and I I thought that this was going to be that I thought well if we're never going to comment about it then how are they going to know I'm trans and then I what dawned on me is that somebody in the powers that being that show decided we want to give work to trans actors and we don't want to make a mockery of it this person is going to be educated this person is not going to be a stereotypical trans character and we're looking for somebody who is right for that and when we got done with the show I thanked the creator of that show I said you're not a trans person I'll forgive you for that but the fact that you did not want to make money of making us miserable that you wanted to give us an authentic respectable representation and to the end of my life I will remember that at one point at one point in my career I came across someone who wanted to do something which has to be commercially viable I mean in sudden TV it has to have audiences but they also thought of respecting the people that they were showing and it's a culturally diverse show you know I mean the three leads of the show one person is black one person is Asian another person is French and another person is a Jewish man and I want and I think what we all want we want more people to see it that not thinking okay well if we have to have a trans character then this character has to be pathetic so the audience will feel sorry for us none of us want anybody to feel sorry for us we want to be respected we want to be acknowledged and we want to be included in society as who we are so that was my feedback sorry great no um I would like to also know um there's been a discussion about how we the community in general uh healthcare certainly can better support the trans community because I think uh it was an education for me as well to learn um that there's a great deal of your journey that goes along that we don't see on stage the personal journey for trans actors there's housing there's healthcare things like that that are at some can be barriers to booking a job your your life as an artist is deep can be greatly affected by that how can the arts community how can healthcare how can we as a community in general support and better serve the trans community can I say I think the most the most important thing than me um as far as healthcare or anything as far as what perks are involved with whether it be equity or SAG I think there should be some time of insurance cover for HRT because that is one of the most if you are if you do plan on moving forward on or not even moving forward moving to another part of your transition that's an important part of it and I think that that should be incorporated with these health plans or health insurance or whatever the case may be there are a lot of perks that are given to equity actors beautiful perks you can get a nice cute little zip car you can get a nice you know you can get a lot of these things you know I mean this that's what comes with these perks it's wonderful but there are certain you get great insurance on certain things as well but there's one thing if we are going to be trans actresses and actors within the the industry we need help too because we some some of us can't move forward without those specific specific essential needs and I think that's one of them that we need okay well I I could talk again um it's being being in theater uh is one of the places where it's still you know considered appropriate to cast you based on the way that you look um like you wouldn't if you were applying for a job at a newspaper they wouldn't say well you're just we needed somebody who was over five six but in theater that kind of thing is still you know very specific you have to look a certain way theater thinks a theater and film any kind of uh art like that um still thinks very binary you know it's either a male role or it's a woman's role so there are certain things that you're um expected to look like in order to get work and that's just the industry then there's the rest of the world where you know there are certain ways that you're expected to look if you don't want to get you know beat up or worse or if you want to live your life happily you know these these boxes these gender norms that people uh ascribe to you whether you identify that way or not whether you identify as non-binary people still expect to see you in a certain way um so in in my personal case um I'm pursuing uh surgery right now it's called top surgery it's to you know remove the giant weight off my chest and um you have to work a certain number of weeks at equity in order to get health insurance through equity and I am one week shy so somebody booked me for a one week of a show and um so right now I'm on medicaid which should be a great thing because it's new york state and new york state has passed a law their medicaid guidelines saying that it um any medicaid like mco whether you have like health first or fidelis has to cover transgender related health care and I recently was turned down for it with one of these um uh plans and the individual plans are able to like come up with whatever kind of little hoops they want to make you jump through and you know they'll deny you the first time then you have to appeal maybe they'll approve it on the appeal and it can be a really really really long process and not only does that affect my life like when I this is a safe space I feel very good sitting here uh when I leave here as soon as I start walking down the street and I get on the subway and I have to go home I'm looking at everybody because I don't want to get clocked I don't I'm worried that somebody's going to notice that my tie doesn't sit flat on my chest you know so it affects my life it also affects my job you know it's going to affect if I can wear that costume or if I can be cast as a certain role so you know this this doesn't have much to do with with uh the artistic community per se as much as it does the transgender community but when when you offer the support to um transgender people that they need the medical care that is absolutely necessary it's not a choice it's not cosmetic it's not just because you want calf implants because you think they look cool like it's medically necessary um you're making that person a more positive and um capable member of society you know they're going to provide more to the world because they're healthy and happy now so like MJ was saying you know I since I don't have the health insurance yet I'm only slightly familiar with what equity offers but I know that they don't cover um hormone replacement therapy and things like that or at least that's what I've heard yeah so um you know if you if you want good actors who are going to really be you know at the top of their game because the they embody their true selves and their authentic identity then opening doors like that uh and covering things like that is important and it's going to benefit you in the long run it's going to benefit your production and the the arts as a whole in the long run I just want to say not specifically about health insurance but the tremendous pressure on appearance you know it's wonderful that we are making these great inroads and and you know both as performers and writers and administrators but this is a tough industry it's a tough business whether you're trans or not and I um a friend of mine was cast in a cable series a few years ago and I called my agent at the time and I said I didn't even know about this why didn't you send me on this you know she said well they wanted someone around 30 I said but she's the love interest the leading man is my age she said welcome to Hollywood dear I mean I will also say that when you okay first of all breakdowns right um you need to know who you're looking for you can't find who you're looking for if you don't know how to use the right words right so you need to know what we're called and how we respond right what is a trans man what is a trans woman what is the difference between those things and when you say trans man trans woman you know and just like jumbled them up it's very confusing like we actually don't know if you're talking to us or not because it's like well that's are you with me yeah which one right so um so make sure that your breakdown says what you wanted to say um just just basically and and also for the entire industry maybe have somebody look at it and just tell you if you're being offensive you know just tell you if you're being offensive like make that someone's job where they're just like I'm gonna tell you the truth here that's not what uh that's not what those people like to be called you know so so there's that but also you know I know trans people who are working who are doing very well but um but who don't feel good when they book those jobs right because they go into the theater they're constantly misgendered right like it's not okay to invite us into your house and then not treat us respectfully okay so you need to keep up with the pronouns I have lots of feelings about and suggestions for that but one of the biggest ones which I think is is the most radical because there's a socialization to be nice about it and and to coach people is to practice right we learn our lines you learn your lines right so you you get a scene partner and you practice until you get those pronouns right because I don't want to hear it um that's I mean really go go do that somewhere else because like the moment it slips out of your mouth it's ruined the entire interaction and although I might smile and be like oh yeah it's hard sometimes no I haven't forgotten and it's it's really ruined the experience make sure there are bathrooms that people can use right which means that you may want to ask people what kind of bathroom they would like to go to I like a single stall right because I like privacy in the bathroom no one no matter what I'm doing in there I don't want another person in there with me um so like those basic things but also pay people please pay people I understand listen I'm an emerging playwright I understand how there's not any money uh but but um but I feel like people are especially looking for trans women of color and trans women of color of a certain age and they're like looking and looking and they're like we can't find her where is she and I'm like you know she she needs to to eat right like we need to eat we need to pay these bills and and also people say that you know well I can't find the trained actors and it's like well okay first of all they do exist so but also it's like are you calling them the right thing you know first of all but but also um how do you expect people to have the experience and like stay up on their game when they're not getting the work and they're not getting getting paid right so really thinking about uh quality of of life human rights how you would like to experience things and if you can't see those things because you have a blind spot then again you need to get have somebody come in and say nope that's not nope nope nope the costume fittings like maybe everyone just needs to have their own private moment do you have like a shade or something uh and also costuming and I say that also as a lifelong fat person your costume people will need to be on it and be respectful right so first of all they do need to read up and maybe you do need some extra room in the chest for me um like maybe you do need to know how to like deal with all this you know like this junk in the trunk and like these thighs um but also be respectful about it right so like I don't want to hear about how hard it is for you to make a suit for me um or what you need to do right what kind of undergarments we need to make sure everything is staying where we want it to be while we're on stage and and also that when these lights hit us you're not seeing things that like that we can't see right so like have our backs when it comes to that and it shouldn't even be a question like that shouldn't even be a question because that's a professional job like we do our jobs as professionals like I said to do to act to sing they shouldn't know exactly what they need if you are if you don't know how to say it I was always talked don't say it at all right you do your job and when you do your job you get a promotion I mean so like yeah I feel like we all just want to feel like dignified professionals right you know like that's that's really it and so it's like if you need to tell me that you know like that my my binding has slipped or something like that's fine there's a way to do that like right we have ways to tell actors that they're having a problem with their costume and like that's totally fine but but just remember that we all deserve dignity um and so we should really have each other's backs and also um and also we want you to have a dignified interaction with us like we don't want you to just be like out there looking stupid so like again maybe have a consultant or somebody who's on that job to help you interact with us and I think this is a this panel is a great start in getting that dialogue going but um individually how would each of you like to see more trans people become in power positions how how do we get more trans people to become the decision makers who are casting how to make sure the casting directors are talking to the trans community that you've got someone who's an executive director or an artistic director I mean we've got Shaquina Nyfak who's a great wonderful ally and she's running her own company right now um and she has has made sure that there's room for trans writers in her development series but um what's the way forward I think we need to um well one we need to start all of us whether it be trans or non-trans I think we need to start developing like genuine relationships and getting understanding and once you get an understanding then I feel like especially within the industry everyone has contacts everyone has whether they be called good or bad it's still a contact and once you start creating that revenue for um moving forward and pressing forward and making things happen I think when you put that on a certain platform it's going to go farther than what you ever even thought but we need to start in a genuine place of creating friendships and and and camaraderie if we don't have that that's not going to happen there if there's no togetherness that's not going to happen and um yeah that's what I think I just think that needs to happen I just think that needs to happen you have to be genuine and you have to create you have to be in a space where you know you feel safe whether it like I said whether it be trans or non-trans when you do that moves forward and I say this it may sound cheesy and I don't care because I truly believe it we have to start loving without conditions honey we love too much with conditions we love each other with too many conditions it sucks we need to start loving each other without them and I promise you when we start doing that as a whole things will move forward they will I I think you know I come from an acting point of view but I really think the next step really is getting more trans people in the writer's room and programming more plays by trans writers you know trans directors hire an assistant trans director you know get a trans camera person but like you said in those positions of power transparent has jonna you know they specifically wanted a trans person in the writer's room and they searched for one and she didn't have experience doing that and she was taught and now she's part of it and trans people in casting offices you know casting directors can't find someone you know there are trans people out that they can help them find someone you know there's no excuse anymore because most agents you know that that I've worked with they they they know someone on call that they can send because there's so much work and like I said you know those positions of power and influence it's very very important you know if a trans actor playing a trans role brings an authenticity then imagine what happens when the writer of a trans story is trans I like to um we have about five minutes left are there any questions that anyone would like to hi down in the front great I'm just going to repeat the question is um what every uh artist up here what their dream role would be oh well um it's been this since I was 10 and my transition is not going to change it so the witch and into the woods oh you guys are gonna laugh I'm an 80s kid I grew up with dynasty I always thought if they if they redo it you know what I am just perfect to play the head bitch I even have the right coloring um I want to do a big budget action thriller opposite Tom Hardy well who wouldn't you asked well well since I'm a theater girl clearly I want Peggy like I just want that but the main one that I know I would deliver is Glenda I want to be Glenda and Wicked and I know I would deliver devout right that would that be amazing interesting you know I don't really think of myself like as an actor and other people's plays anymore um I mean circling back around the leadership I would love to be an artistic director at somebody's theater so that's a nice role um and for for me I mean also I'm really passionate about literary management but like I have I write my own work now and so I like I don't necessarily see myself in my own work but sometimes and I would love for one of my plays to be up at you know Soho rep the public like you know I like the role as playwright on opening ah yeah um sorry I hear on the end sad and upsetting to know that in the safety of one's own home and for me serving on the national team we do to just make us all feel safer so that we can live on that you know I just want to say that um at first I thought you were coming from sort of a scolding place oh and you're not but um I do think it is important for a trans artist it is a sort of it works both ways you know and we have to show up for things that you know like filling out paperwork and things like that surveys and doing things it's very important you know um MJ and I have been cast in a play that's going to be an ART in January and Joe Bonnie's the director and Paul Lucas the writer they sent out the breakdown after breakdown after breakdown after breakdown they flew to different cities looking for trans actors and the response they got was really really poor and what I'm learning you know it has to be we you know and and one person one person's agent said she's not interested in doing theater you know and you know it's true I mean you get to a point where you do pick and choose and that's great but you know there are the casting agents that say they didn't and they didn't really try but I know these people really tried and the response was was underwhelming and I think it's important that we we have we have to show up we have to show up right we're not all going to be the next Laverne Cox and even Laverne Cox did a lot a lot of theater she had a lot of small theater tiny little independent films so when the big moment arrived she was ready and I think trans performers especially young trans performers they have to they have to realize we have to pay our dues just like anybody else you know and we have to show up we have time for one more question in the hat yet tangerine can I just repeat the questions everyone can hear um the question is about the lack of diversity in mainstream films about trans character specifically racial diversity yes racial diversity I feel like intersectionality is so important here right so we're here to talk about um trans theater artists but when you ask this question about leadership I'm thinking about who's the you know because when I look for opportunities at places I look at their leadership I go and see who is in charge here and you know I'll see a place and it's like white people white people white people white people white people you know and it's just like okay so there may or may not actually be a permanent seat for me at the table this may be like you know a table that you just set up and put out a paper plate on for me you know in this moment because it's not a permanent party of your agenda so I think we really have to look at hiring practices and and who we're really putting in the positions of power so that consistently there's this support and we know that we have a race problem in this country right absolutely so then we have you know people who are multiply marginalized and it's like okay so yes we have tangerine that's what we have but uh what up I mean what up that's I feel you on that one I I've seen and I'm this is no this is no way bashing any Caucasian person because we all deserve a role but there is a sad reality that we we as African-American or people who are multiracial or of color we're not seen and some of that is because some of us feel like we don't need to be be seen because it's already happening and we're like okay well they got it already we're not gonna do that's the mentality because that's been instilled in us but there needs to be there need that door needs to be open and there needs to be uh an accepting uh hug or whatever to let us know and reassure us that we are deserving of being in more mainstream or big tv or or theater shows but right now we don't have that we don't have those groups telling us go and audition we don't we and and and that retrospect as far as African Americans I feel um this is such a this is so like touchy but um that that that word privilege trickles in and um it shows within the screen and that's just that and sometimes that's just the way it is but I feel like we just have to work harder and show that there doesn't need to be any privilege and if you do have it it needs to be equal and that we can we can have that privilege as well hope that made sense well especially when you're doing diversity programming so I know last night the playwrights in their identity panel uh they were talking about right like black history month right and that's like that's your slot right and so if we're looking at like what is getting programmed and I'm think talking more theatrically here because I am a theater maker and that's that's where I work but also you know it's kind of the same thing for Hollywood right like we get like our one one Medea movie a year you know or like you know let's go find the the black hotties and like put them in that one movie we got Taraji in them right so um if that's all we get right like black people we get one two movies like that's all we get it's not going to be a trans movie right it's not going to be a movie where they're dealing respectfully with trans characters so I feel like we really got to look at this intersectionality because when we blow it open so that there is more space for all these stories then we get the nuance and the layering of things uh but when we get one trans story it's going to be a white trans story right if we get one black story it's going to be a cis story you know because they ain't ready right now but they need to get ready and with that unfortunately I wish we had more time to talk but I think that's a great way to end it at least this is all with something to think about and discuss as we leave um I want to thank every one of these incredible panelists for joining us tonight it's an honor to say this to all of you and thank you all for coming