 How you going mate? What's your name buddy? Alfie. Alfie. Good to meet you Alfie. I'm calm. You're calm? Yeah. So what do you think is about this statement on the sign? I don't even know what it means mate. Can you explain it to me? Okay so a live auction is where they sell off cattle to other farmers so they have them in this big cell yard and they bid on bid on them and they sell calves and you know pigs and lambs and I'm saying that it's the slave trade what do you think about that? It's not. It's not? No because it's an animal isn't it? It's an animal and we've been doing it for like millions of years, centuries. So if it's wrong why try and fix it? If it's wrong why try and fix it. So we well so animals can't be enslaved and also we we've been enslaving each other for thousands of years too just because we've done something for a long time do you think that justifies us still continuing to do it today? Well no because the slave trade in that it was people on people and as you know people on people it's not good but with the slave trade of animals that they're made to be killed ain't they? Animals eat other animals we just overdo it I admit to that we overdo it yeah we should cut down on it yeah but okay so animals do something to each other in the wild or whatever do you think that justifies our behavior in a civilized society and also you said they're just animals or something along those lines I can't remember you don't think our slavery is only a human on human that's what you said you don't think animals can be victims of slavery? No. So what is it about them that sort of exempts them from being victims of slavery? Well I think what exempts them from being slaves is how do I put it? It would be like a slave would still get money or something wouldn't they? No no slaves are property they are used. Yeah but you if you looked in history they'd still get a house or something or they'd still be treating bad. Not necessarily a slave is owned by their owner and they might have been had slaves that have had you know different granted different rights of freedom but they're there at the end of the day they're owned by their yeah they're owned animals are owned people were owned they were yeah yeah but we have rights protecting us now and are you saying we should just let animals roam free? No I'm just saying do you think that the fact that we treat them as property and as products do you think that that's slavery but you're saying that animals can't be enslaved there's something about them that makes them exempt from being slaves? I'm just wondering what you thought that was? What characteristic they possess that we don't? Characteristic that we don't. So we obviously have something special about us that means something special about us but it's that thing of you can't find something special about an animal can you? Yeah they were they sent in the same really ain't they? Well not necessarily but they they let's talk about what we have in common like we're all sentient we feel pain and suffer we want to live so do animals they value their lives and families they don't want to die. They don't have value to anything no. If you've got to think about it yeah you're you're trying to put an animal into a human intelligence a bit yeah. Not necessarily well I talked about what we had in common yeah and we have we share intelligence we share intelligence don't we? And they sent you know what sentience is they're aware yeah they got sentience but they don't have value of anything we value things an animal will not they don't value their their child for instance no because they're built to protect their child their nature is to protect so is ours yeah so is ours yeah our nature is to kill our nature is to kill yeah I'm getting a bit nervous what about kill each other no I'm serious though that we don't kill each other though do we? No but you don't no because I'm not in a war yeah but if we had to defend ourselves that would be different to enslaving and killing animals here would you meet like so you're saying in a war you would defend you know yourself like that would be justified but if the victim hadn't done anything wrong to you like say in the context of animals do we still have that killer instinct yeah the world's a cruel place mate yeah that's that's literally it the world's a cruel place you ain't gonna change it how many times you try and say anything but most people like they have this moral code that they adhere to so like with each other we wouldn't try to hurt each other you know you wouldn't go up and assault some innocent person it's not more code it's more we've got laws now like let's say protecting us yeah we've got laws protecting us back back in the day let's think about like 1800s yeah people didn't care that you'd get like go out in the streets if you looked like you had a bit of nice money yeah you get beaten up and it looks like it was your neighbor was gonna beat you up but we've become civilized now haven't we because our laws are better they're better than they protect us from that protect us if we if you as people yeah if you just let everyone like the purge you let everyone go yeah everyone's going you know what yeah I can do what I want now yeah you just got to have that little switch every person can have it and go so we have laws protecting us from violent people and from slavery and why don't we have laws protecting animals from those things we do like cows cows well because it's not it's not an animal that you see as a pet really yeah that's that's where I want to that's a good place to go actually what about so what is the moral what's the moral difference between dogs and cows that we don't we wouldn't think there is a moral difference I think if you can kill a cow you can eat a dog yeah yeah I thought I don't mind you if you don't care about killing dogs and killing cows because it's one of them was we it's killed be killed eat or be eaten so you opinion if we don't kill and eat cows we won't survive as a species you don't think no it's just we could eat by plants and that but it's just out you're preferred ain't it so you prefer like carnival won't just go around to go and like I might just start eating that it's made to eat me ain't it they are they're in a survival situation now aren't they're in a survival we're we're sort of not like we can go on that test go there and we can do what I want we can go like you know what yeah I want to change and have just plants and I like the apes do like that they're omnivores but it's something that you want to change like we have what you're saying is we have a choice whether we we choose to eat products that harm and enslave animals and we have a choice to eat plants so why don't we make the more ethical choice you can't make a choice for seven billion people in the world but you can like we talk about your only we only want to talk about you because there's other people that do yeah so let's talk about your your situation if you have a choice to buy products that enslave and kill animals and you have a choice to eat plants that you know mimic the same flavours why wouldn't you make the more ethical choice that's what I wouldn't because it ain't really I prefer real meat I prefer it I prefer the taste of it yeah that's interesting I hear this a lot and I used to obviously I've eaten animals my whole life up until 26 the thing of you changed you you got more soft hearted like not necessarily soft hearted I just don't think it's justified it's not justified I've got mates who have all the same but it all just comes down to they all just go like it's preference ain't it do you think you have to be soft to care about justice to animals and animal cruelty or no because I'll be honest yeah if I saw someone kick a dog in the face I wouldn't like it either you'd probably stop them yeah yeah like if anything like with a cow yeah what if they didn't stop what would you do well it's the fact of like you defend them the animal yeah because you're kicking a dog that ain't like nothing wrong to you nothing wrong it's like a cow yeah but if it was if that dog was made to be eaten yeah and they just started trying to kill it I'd be like you're trying to eat it now we're here at the point of like if they are bred for a certain purpose then morals go out the window yeah because that make logical sense to you though well let's say this yeah let's how about you just started breeding like people like you got in in a family breeding than that yeah do you think they should just stay there like into family humans really well I don't if we were breeding humans for the purpose of enslaving them and killing them I wouldn't think that that was ethical just because we're breeding them for a specific purpose you know what I mean I feel like I'm getting lost track mate so we're just talking about breeding animals okay I'll slow it down a bit we're breeding animals for a specific purpose and you say that that makes it okay because because we're breeding them for that purpose yeah it's different to just hitting and killing an innocent dog on the side of the road where you would defend the dog yeah but if we were breeding humans for a specific purpose let's just say to enslave and kill them and eat them you wouldn't think that that was ethical well if they've made for that do it you do you interesting so with the statement here I know I'm going off into a little I'm trying to find like holes in the logic because for me it doesn't I don't think it's ethical to you know harm the innocent when we don't need to that's what I'm trying to find with you and I think that you know I've thought about this for a little bit longer so this might be the first conversation you've had like this many I've got many vegan friends I just I just go with the same thing I'm gonna keep doing what I wanted to stop me yeah no well I'll get a bit childish with it I'll do I'll be honest I got like no you can't change me but I don't think you you seem like a bloke that's like against animal cruelty you know I mean yeah you just admitted that to me if you seen someone hurt an animal like but when we pay for animal products they go to the slaughterhouse they get tortured they get their animals they're their children taken off them they get enslaved but we're making that unconscious choice because we don't see it hmm well I think you're saying they don't see it yeah the world's just seeing it it's just turning a blind eye to it mate I'll be honest with y'all yeah like I admit all this stuff like putting the rights in that like I'll be honest we do it over a bit but you ain't gonna ever change them like fully you can make it a bit better like but you ain't gonna stop the farming products nothing like that mate we could talk about whether or not it will ever stop but like we probably won't stop murdering and raping and killing each other either like will we as a species like we still that will still happen I don't do that though no so I make my own moral choices just like you do so we could talk about what moral choice you you would make and what you feel a responsibility to make and if you think like when you purchase these products are you going against your own values of animal cruelty I'm if I go and purchase product it's not violating I think that's everyone here like it wouldn't violate them because they're going out and buying it yeah it's it's the fact that I don't think most of them wouldn't be able to do it though like most and they pay someone else to do it yeah that's what humans do they don't want to do the hard work so they'll pay someone else to do it for them so we've all got blindfolds on when it comes to purchasing these products that kill animals yeah because like hunter-gatherers in that yeah they've got the most respect for animals I've ever seen like you see any documentaries on them yeah because they they go out work for their food they'd even bury the parts they don't use because they're in a survival situation yeah but because we've might overproduce to everything yeah everyone's just like I don't see nothing mate you're right we don't care about it no more but if you literally said to everyone yet you got to go out kill your own food yeah they'll be like half the population straight away it's like I might actually try vegan yeah I don't want to go out and try and kill a cow scared cow like you know doesn't want to do mate it's just like yeah I don't think you would probably be able to do it either because I definitely couldn't you definitely well mate well if you didn't have to do it to survive and a cow or a pig was cowering in the corner do you think you could still stab them in the throat if you didn't need to if I had a vegan burger right there well what situation is it that I'm like this situation that we're right now it's a test go there there's a test go yeah for just going up to that cow stabbing it we're saying we trying to say to you could you literally saying yeah go to that cow stab it I'm saying like if in a situation like this where we have alternatives right and there was a cow there yeah and you didn't feel it was a survival situation you had to kill him burger yeah and a vegan burger and be like which one do you want why don't I go kill it because if you choose the meat burger a cow gets stabbed in the throat so I'm trying to get that part in the middle that's taken out so so when you're not needing to make my food so I don't need to do it I could I could I'll tell you that now I could I could go to a cow kill it yeah and feel nothing I could probably do it if I had to do no not even have to I could do it like just do it but I just don't because I don't need to because it I'd be honest yeah I don't have any emotional attachment to that cow nothing so what's killing it gonna do to me yeah probably nothing but do you think if we don't have emotional attachments to others than that therefore you need to make them emotional connection then that's humans like people make connections with their animals because I don't have emotional connections with all these people walking past either but I wouldn't go hurt them I wouldn't hurt them no you wouldn't care though if they died tomorrow though I wouldn't but I wouldn't go up and kill them no I wouldn't go up to kill a cow but I wouldn't care if it died tomorrow and it worked my fault well when we pay for animal products we're paying a hit man to kill the cows for us you pay pensions for soldiers to go over and kill other people yeah taxes you talking about taxes yes you it's the same thing really mate well that's some sort of unavoidable taxes but like making a choice in the supermarket is I want to punch you straight up oh fuck them you got an emotional you got an emotion I'm gonna punch him up they got a you got an emotional attachment to him I don't I'd kill him tomorrow mate I'll be honest for a burger yeah for a burger mate so a vegan burger I'll tell you that now for a vegan burger I'll do it over in mate anyway so we'll get back to the statement then we'll cut it off because we've had a good conversation with you man I appreciate you sitting down live auctioning of animals treating him as property selling him off they have no liberty no rights no freedom do you think that that's the slave trade I don't care what you whether you think it's you do it you'd keep doing it or whether it still exists do you think objectively it's you don't think it's a slave trade honest opinion I don't think it's a slave trade all right no worries we'll leave it at that I beg to differ yeah you beg it different but that's what people are they have different opinions ain't they do they do have a good day mate I'd like you to have your fun with this cheers brother okay I like to have an argument you got me there again