 Okay, we're back with live four o'clock rock, Think Tech, our flagship show on energy, supported by the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum. Oh, Energy Policy Forum. That's Sharon Moriwaki. Okay, and today Hawaii is the state of clean energy. We have a really special show, and Ray Starling is here to help as well as Sharon Moriwaki. Ray, say hello. Hello, Jay. Nicely done. Hello, fans out there. This is going to be a great show, and we've got a great start here with Ramsay Brown. Okay, we're going to talk to Ramsay Brown shortly, Hawaii Energy, shortly thereafter, and talk to Luis Salivaria of D-Bed. So, Ramsay, you're first. What happened? You had this hearing about the code, about the building energy code. What happened? That's exactly right. We had exciting time last week. Jeff Nicolino of Blue Planet and myself got to go down to the Department of Accounting and General Services and present testimony in support of the new energy code that they're trying to adopt the 2015 IECC. Go and support our fellow colleagues over there, the state energy office, and advancing our state's energy code. The electric code was also up for adoption as well, so they combined these two to be heard, and both of our codes were well heard and well supported. Okay, what was your testimony? What did you say to them? It's okay, you're not under oath anymore. Well, we showed the importance of reaching the 100% clean energy goal, our state's goal by 2045, and that energy efficiency is a key component of that. And keeping up with current energy code will help to support that, kind of give us a baseline from the Hawaii energy perspective, where upon which we can build with new technologies and even more advanced techniques than what's already out there. So code will set that baseline and we can go and find even higher-hanging fruit as it were in the energy efficiency world to meet our 100% clean energy goal. So was this a unanimous vote? It wasn't a vote yet. It was just a public hearing. Okay. So there are a few next steps and ultimately we'll put it before the governor after some more review internally and then we'll share it and see what the state music would like to do about it. All right, outstanding. We have a video before you. Yeah, let's look at it. Yeah. Hawaii Energy is here in support of adopting the IECC 2015 as amended. Hawaii Energy works with Hawaii's families and businesses to help them conserve energy and make smarter energy decisions. The adopted energy code provides a baseline or foundation upon which we can strive for higher energy efficiency measures through our incentives and through educational programs. Raising the bar on the energy code allows us to explore even further techniques and technologies, which is something that we would like to do continuously. And like the Hawaii energy program itself, the energy code is a critical component of the state's energy efficiency portfolio standard goals. We strongly support the amendments proposed for the energy conservation code. As Ramsey and I think most of us, we understand that efficiency is really the core of our transition to a 100% clean energy future here in Hawaii. What the proposed amendments do is get our building code up to speed basically. It's been about a decade since it was last amended and in that time technology has rapidly advanced and the progress made hasn't, we haven't quite caught up with our building code. These updates and amendments are also consistent with state policy going all the way up to our constitution. It's embedded in our constitution that we shall conserve and protect Hawaii's natural beauty and all natural resources, including energy resources and promote the development and utilization of these resources in manner consistent with their conservation. Okay, Ramsey. That was good. Question for you before we break on this, and that is how is this going to change my life, the adoption of this clean energy code? Well, hopefully if you build a new house, once the code is adopted, you'll be more comfortable. Yeah, okay. That's ultimate. We want to meet comfort and save money on your electric. Very important. Ray, what have you got? You got a question across examinations? Well, I just, I know that this code is very important because this one has taken into account the Pacific Island aspects of what we need with the codes, and normally we just adopted something from the mainland that didn't always apply here. So this is a really big jump, and I'm glad to see that we're making progress, but we're still way behind. We're under the 2006 code. We're under the 2006 currently. So it's good to see that, again, Howard Wig of the State Energy Office has been pushing forward advancing this code and the tropical code, which is what you're speaking toward here in Hawaii. If it happens, I mean, I'm sure it will be approved, but when does it go into effect? It would go into effect for the state as soon as it's approved. So we're talking possibly in 2017, and the counties have two years to adopt and bring it into the county level. Okay. I'm sure that Howard will do what he can to get at least a while to adopt it right away. We'll be pushing forward too. Thank you, Ramsey. Thank you, Jay. Ramsey Brown, Hawaii Energy. Right. Kim, take a short break. Watch this. Wait, wait. Hello, and aloha. My name is Raya Salter, and I am your host for Power Up Hawaii, where Hawaii comes together to talk about a clean and renewable energy future. I'm so excited to be here with you to talk about some of the most important energy issues of our day. And most importantly, who can we bring together? Energy engineers, artists, musicians, accountants, advocates, young people. Who can we bring together to talk about how we can make this path together by walking and reach 100% renewable energy? Please join me Tuesdays at 1 p.m. for Power Up Hawaii. Hi, I'm Keeley Akeena, president of the Grassroot Institute. I'd love you to join us every week Mondays at 2 o'clock p.m. for Ehana Kako. Let's work together. We report every week on the good things going on in our state, as well as the better things that can go on in the future. We have guests covering everything from the economy, the government, and society. See you Mondays on Ehana Kako at 2 o'clock p.m. Until then, I'm Keeley Akeena. Aloha. Hello. My name is Crystal. Let me tell you my talk show, I'm all about health. It's healthy to talk about sex. It's healthy to talk about things that people don't talk about. It's healthy to discuss things that you think are unhealthy because you need to talk about it. So I welcome you to watch Quok Talk and engage in some provocative discussions on things that do relate to healthy issues and have a well-balanced attitude in life. Join me. Aloha. I am Reg Baker, and I am the host of Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We broadcast live every Thursday from 2 to 2.30 in the ThinkTech studios in downtown Alululu. We highlight successful stories about businesses and individuals and learn their secrets to success. I hope you can join us on our next show on Thursday at 2 o'clock. Until then, Aloha. Hi, I'm Jay Fidel. That's Ted Ralston. You know, Ted is the host of Where the Road Leads. It shows every Friday from 4 to 5 p.m. It's about technology. It's about how people collaborate and solve problems with modern technology. It's where the road leads. We all know that. We should all be listening. Join us there, 4 to 5 p.m. every Friday. Now what about that you agree with? All of it. I knew we'd say that. Aloha. Say Aloha. Aloha. Good. You're watching ThinkTech Hawaii, offering lifelong learning from passionate hosts and fascinating guests ready to explore and explain Hawaii's place in the 21st century. Great content for Hawaii. Okay, we're live. We're back. We're here with Louis Salivaria and also Sharon Moriwaki and Ray Starling. Wow. This is going to be an intense discussion, right? Say yes, Louis. Sure. Sure. Why not? Now, Louis, if you didn't know it, is the chief guy. He's the director of business and economic development and tourism in the state of Hawaii right here in our studio. Thanks for coming down. Oh, thank you for having me. And talk about what DBEDD is doing about energy, okay? What it has done this year. Be interested in that. What it plans for next year. And how are you going to do all the things we want to need to do? This is a multiple part question, but go ahead. Sure. Great question. And this has been a very, very busy year, 2016 was a very busy year. But one of the things that we are very proud of, let's start off with the repurposing of the state's energy conference now branded as the verge. We went from having about 350 people, you know, 400 people previously. It started off really big, kind of tapered off a little bit. After we rebranded it in 2016, I think we had almost 800 people show up at the verge this year. Wow. Major, more than double. So we were very, very happy with what happened. There was a big international focus on all of the things that we did and it created momentum around it and it gave it new life. And so we were very excited what we did with verge this year. And another thing, which was a very great thing that happened this year, is we really reinvigorated the relationship that we have with the Department of Defense by signing the new memorandum of the month. I was there. That was at verge, wasn't it? That was at verge too as well. But what that happened, with that happening, you know, we were really able to reaffirm one, they are one of the largest consumers of energy within the state of Hawaii. They have a significant amount of resources at their disposal. But then looking at things like resiliency and reliability, renewable energy, transportation, all of these different things. And we created three different working groups. And those working groups have been engaged now, literally for the past half year, and they've been meeting and coming up with individual projects around which the state and the Department of Defense can work together. Example. An example is transportation. So we're working with the Navy and specifically in East Honolulu to take a look at opportunities in order to create a much more broader electric vehicle infrastructure within the state of Hawaii. One of the things that's always a big concern when it comes to transportation is this idea of range anxiety. And the way that you address range anxiety is by putting the infrastructure in place. And so if we can get more and more infrastructure in place, utilizing strategic locations around the island, specifically Pearl Harbor is one, Kaneohe is another one, Schofield is another area, getting all of these pieces to work together, then you start kind of eliminating that range anxiety issue for people. And Hawaii, again, as an island state, kind of makes sense for electric vehicles. Sure, it should. Look at Ray over there. Ray drives free. Ray drives free. I was an early adopter like Sharon, but I also adopted PV at the same time, and I was just saying, I think we've just about broken even and are making money now with PV system. And that's with free travel as well in terms of the fuel. So it's a good thing, and I'm happy to have been part of the first adopters. Early adopters. Although I've learned that over the years, pigeons start to understand that the solar PV panels are a good place to hang out, so you've got to do some work on that, too. You've got to clean, but you've got to also wire it off so that you can't get thirsty. They can't get under and loose. Who would have thought? I'm going to start a new business. Are you early adopters? I've got your pigeons here. Anyway, so, okay. I want to know the other three working. Yeah, three working. Oh, those are the three working. There was resiliency and reliability. Yeah. There was transportation, and there was actual renewable energy generation, too, as well. Renewal generation. What is that? Generation. Take, for example, the big PV farm that we just did in cooperation between HIKO as well as the Navy by putting a solar farm out in the west side of Honolulu. Finding opportunities for the Department of Defense as a large utilizing to actually start deploying within their footprint opportunities for renewable energy generation. What about legislation? What have you had this year, or maybe you before, and what do you plan? Well, the year before was the 100 percent renewable energy. Okay, that was major. That was a major. We needed a little bit of a break after that, actually. You know, there were a couple of things that happened during the course of 2016. There was a lot of bills that were introduced. But in the end, I think our perspective as well as our direction is very clear. We got to keep pushing towards 100 percent. And the things that happened, you know, how we incentivize the industry, how we make the determination on what 100 percent really means for the state of Hawaii are things that are going to get debated, you know, over the years. Did you say debate or filibuster? I don't know. Do we filibuster? And so I think in 2016, a couple of things did happen. You know, the governor did sign a bill to begin incentivizing renewable fuel generation in the state of Hawaii. We're working with the industry right now to help kind of develop the competencies around doing those types of things in the state of Hawaii. Again, another area where what we can do is incentivize the industry, create certainty within the market in order for investment to happen. Sure, sure. But how do you do that? You know, aside from finding a concept, you know, finding a path, how do you execute the path? How do you make the incentive happen so that people do come out of the woodwork and they do invest and they do produce the fuel and they do buy the fuel? And the big component of that is creating certainty within the market, having very clear and explicit rules and administrative rules, clear interpretation of the statutes, all of these different things are going to be integral in order to make sure that anybody that comes in that wants to invest, because at the end of the day we need the private industry to come here and make the investment in this particular area, but make it very clear to them that if they do come in here, that they have a very clear and concise playing field in what they're going to be doing in terms of owning and operating a business. What are the big areas that you see pushing the envelope, so to speak, on getting the market developed for clean energy? And where do you see the big potential is for creating that market, but where and what sort of areas has that been developed? I think one of the areas that is really starting to come out and you're seeing it in discussion around on the media nowadays is this idea of how storage is going to be an integral component of the energy landscape going forward. And so that's a particular area where the industry is somewhat evolving and it's somewhat evolving based around the way the regulatory environment has really kind of made it very clear to the industry that this is where we would like to see these things happen. And so that's a big area, storage is a big area, but I can't not say enough about how we need to diversify our portfolio, how we need to create multiple different lines of renewable energy generation in order so that we're not in a situation like how we are right now where we're solely reliant on one particular source of energy which in this particular case is fossil fuels, create a more diversified portfolio. I think I kind of aching it to like having your own stock portfolio. You want a different type, not everybody is going to be a home run, not everybody is going to be a Google or a Netflix or something like that, but you need different types of diversified renewable energy sources in order to make and create a very reliable and efficient energy ecosystem. Yeah, and to avoid dependency on any one thing. It's like Ray's thing about finding out about the pigeons. I mean really, we will have renewable surprises going forward. We'll find out that this source and this source, maybe they have issues and we won't know until a few years go by with experience and we find out that maybe an issue we have to solve and so we want to have other options and not be dependent on any one of them. So to follow through though on Sharon's question, you talk about an industry and Lord knows the poor installers, they've lost ground over all this regulation and the utility versus the regulators and back and forth about solar. And so now that industry, the part of the industry, the installers is smaller, significantly smaller than it was. On the other hand, you know, renewable fuels that may get bigger depending on how the incentive works and the same with battery storage, people who sell it, install it, what have you, people who write the software to connect it up to the renewables and to the utility and so forth. But how do you see in your mind's eye, how do you see this industry, which is what we have emerging, industry of energy in the next few years, what will it look like? Where will the strong weak points, who will be involved? Where will the capital come from? Because I don't think it's going to come locally. I'd like it to, but give us a picture of that. This is the ghost of Christmas future. So here's the first thing that comes into mind and call it philosophical order, but it's also a young person's game. I think you're going to see a lot more young people really engaged in this particular industry. The type of competencies are really the things that, even for me, growing up are well beyond, are past my generation going forward. And, you know, the ideas around the software, how software is going to be integrated into our energy delivery system, how the market is actually going to operate in a very efficient and productive manner. So one, I think the industry is going to look very young in terms of its demographic and its makeup. It's also, the capital is going to be coming from the outside. One of the things that we do realize in the State of Hawaii is that we are a small market. And capital, raising capital internally is challenging. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist. In fact, I think that there are good opportunities that are out there. But to get to 100%, to get to 100%, we're going to have to bring in outside capital, outside investors that are going to want to partake in what Hawaii has to offer. Billions. Yes, tens of billions, hundreds of billions, I really, I think, as we get to 100%. Right now, I'm an economist by trade, right? Now we know. So, you know, any type of prediction past five years tends to be a little bit of crystal ball thinking. But what we do kind of recognize is that, once you get towards that 20, 45 number, the makeup, the industry, the types of people, where the capital is going to be coming from, it may look very different than what it looks like right now. In fact, in many ways, some of the things that are happening right now are very different than what it looked like in, you know, in 2008. Sure, sure. And so, and that's just within the timeframe of eight years. Imagine another 32. Two sachans, two laments, great. Quick follow up. Do you see that the state has all the tools that it needs to move us into this new area? I mean, we're doing lots of things that we've never done before in the energy world. And I'm just wondering, and I know you've got an RFP out on the street now to look at the various ways that we do our power supply. But do we have the other components that are necessary to make it work? Are we set up to do it? And that's kind of an open question, because I'm asking myself that. And I'll be a little cautious here because it is an existing RFP right now. There's little I can talk about because it's currently going through the procurement process. But the one thing about being innovative and being forward-thinking and leaning is sometimes the answers are not readily available. So what we wanted to accomplish with the RFP was to kind of take a look at the landscape that exists out there, what types of business models are there throughout the world, really, that are different than what we're doing right now. Is it going to be exactly a move from where we are right now to that? Probably not. Is it going to be a combination of many different good things? I tend to think so. And the reason why it's going to be that is because we are so far ahead than everybody else. People from other countries, let alone other states, are looking and going, gosh, Hawaii, I mean, you guys are so far ahead in what it is that you guys are doing. I mean, we're looking to you to see, I hate to say that they're looking to us to see what mistakes we make by being early adopters. But to some degree, they are going to benefit by the things that we're doing here in this state. And in kind of a roundabout way to answering your question, I think do we have all of the tools necessary? Not yet. But I think this RFP is one way, building our competencies, building our workforces, all these different things, the types of new technology that are going to come out within the next 10 years, within the next five years for that matter. These are things that are going to absolutely have to be integrated into our long-term planning and long-term solution. Just to follow up to that, just tell us in terms of your vision for the RFP and how, I mean, I think it's kind of asking the same question in a different way, but what, if you get a contractor from the RFP, what will that contractor help, or what are you envisioning that contractor to help D-bed do in terms of furthering our clean energy goals? Just big picture-wise, not specifically what you're looking for, but how does that interconnection from what they bring to us and what we're going to do taking forward? The RFP answers a very question, and this is coming from a mentor of mine. There's a term that he used to use. You don't know what you don't know, and the RFP will help us understand what it is that we don't know. And I also have to say that this is something that was directed by the legislature for the state of Hawaii, for D-bed to do. So what we really want to accomplish is make sure that we accomplish the intent of the legislature and what they incorporated to help us understand. And I think they recognize that in order to understand the things, in order to be very innovative and forward-looking, taking a look at the best of what's out there, is that you're going to need resources in order to do that. And we're very lucky that we have a very efficient and highly functioning state energy office. And they're constantly being asked to look into things, to look into things, to look into more and more and more things. But at the same time, it is a resource constraint issue. And so this was one way that we were able to be directed by the legislature, and they gave us resources and said, you know, here's something that we want you guys to look into. And so that's why... So that's something to look for in the coming year that we're going to have a different, maybe, state energy office as well in terms of the focus, or is that not going to be affected so much? I don't think that's what the RFP was intention was. The intention of the RFP was to take a look at the utility landscape, actually, and to take a look at the utility model and to find out what other models out there exists. And are there opportunities for Hawaii to, you know, not necessarily copy, but to find out things that are working in particular areas and really kind of create that more modern utility that we're looking at. One of the things that we do know, and I, you know, this is a position that the administration has said, is that we do believe that the utility model needs to evolve going forward. Another big thing that happened in 2006, you know, was the merger, was the merger issue. And if there was one thing that was made clear by the merger, was that the state really wants to see this evolving utility model. And whoever owns title to the utility is irrelevant to the issue. The issue is what kind of utility will it be going forward? How will it continue to provide reliable services at an economical price that everybody can, you know, can partake, especially as we move forward? Energy is where the rubber meets the road. I mean, it's science, it's technology. It's our economy. It's our lives at home and at work. It's really everything. And it's very complex, getting more complex. You know, the old model, you know, really, you know, about distributing energy from a central point to individual users, that's not working, can't work in renewables. And so, you know, where I get concerned, I'm always concerned about the tumultuous quality of democracy, especially in Hawaii. So if I started listing all the agencies and all the organizations that are involved or speaking on the point of energy policy in our state, we wouldn't have enough time all day for that show just to list them. So my question to you, Luisa, and I think it's really important that you're here, is, you know, what role going forward? I mean, it's all evolving. In fact, the roles of the individual players on a stage of energy, those roles are evolving. What role do you see Tibet playing and the energy office playing going forward? I mean, what level of leadership, what level of, what am I calling it? Involvement. Involvement of entrepreneurial policy. Do it, boys. Follow me, boys. The moonshot. The moonshot. At its core, at its core, the Department of Business and Economic Development is responsible for ensuring the expansion and diversification of the state's economy. Energy is a huge component. I consider it a factor of production. It's just as important as land, labor and capital. You need energy. Spoken like an economist. So how energy fits within the economic development for the state of Hawaii is where Tibet really plays a very important role. And what's very important is this issue of reliability. One of the things, as we continue to move forward down 100% renewables, as we continue to adopt new technology, as we continue to be very innovative and forward-thinking and somewhat risk-taking, is that we need to make sure that reliable energy is being delivered to every resident in the state of Hawaii. And that is, by far, that's core primary mission number one. We can't make any grand assumptions that that will always be the case. Sometimes there are things happen, you know? Sometimes things happen, but our responsibility is to ensure the reliable delivery of energy to the residents in the state of Hawaii and to do it in an economical way. And we believe that the long-term future in energy is always going to point towards renewable. Anything that is resource-dependent, in this particular case, the fossil industry, anything that's resource-dependent, over time will cost more money as your resources start to diminish, as scarcity of resources start to happen. Any type of production or energy creation that's built around technology is always going to cost less as it moves forward. The old rule. So the economics of which, the long-term economics of this, always point toward renewables. That's the position that D-Bed has taken with regards to renewable energy. And right now, it is how do you get there in such a way that it's not overly disruptive? And I think I've used it, this analogy in the past, is that, you know, moving into renewable energy future is going to be very disruptive. What we do need is an orderly exit out of our existing present. Yeah. Well, this is your turn, Ray. Ray always gets to summarize and sort of make a wrapper on everything we've talked about. No pressure, Ray. Well, the best wrap that I can say is this is to be continued, because there are so many other things I'd like to throw into the conversation we must have you back, because I like where we're at. I like what we've been doing. But I have some questions about whether the tools that we have been using to plan and regulate and make things happen are going to work with all of these many, many things that have to come together, unlike in the past, where the utility kind of did everything and got it approved by the regulators. But now, you've got everybody's a player. Everybody's a player. And we don't have a mechanism to deal with that right now that I can see. So let's come back and, or maybe have a cup of coffee or a beer. We'd love that. A beer summit. We're going to work together and solve all of these problems. Whether it's a coffee or at this table, you'll see. Thank you, Louise. No, thank you, Jay. Thank you so much. Thank you. The director of D-Bed, the business economic development and tourism in the state of Hawaii, Sharon Moriwaki, co-chair of the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum, and Ray Starling, an educated energy citizen and more. Thank you all. Aloha. Aloha.