 Hello, can you hear me? Awesome, awesome. Okay, so my name is Adae Fox and I'm going to be the moderator for this diversity equity and inclusion panel and I'm really excited because this is going to be an Awesome discussion. I think a lot of a lot of us are going to learn quite a bit and Just generally have a good time. All right So I I guess we're going to quickly introduce ourselves and then just dive right into the conversation So, you know, my name is Adae Fox and I'm otherwise known as black carnivore I have a YouTube channel and a community and I eat the carnivore diet and I encourage people to eat the carnivore diet and I specifically named myself black carnivore because I didn't see other people who looked like me in the carnivore space and not even really that many people in the keto space and So I wanted to make sure if there was anybody else out there who was Interested in the carnivore diet But felt intimidated or didn't want to because they didn't see someone who looked like them that I would provide that space So I called my blacks myself black carnivore Figuring that if anybody was anybody else wondered are there any black people who do this diet? They would Google black carnivore and they would find me and that worked beautifully so Yes, so I served as a magnet and drew those people together and what I started to do on my YouTube channel was just to interview other black people who were having success on the carnivore diet and put it up there because I wanted to make sure that Our faces were represented in the community So in any event that's who I am and what why I'm here in the wellness space and looking at And and talking to people in the wellness space, so let me hand it over to Orlitha. Hi, I'm Orlitha Smith I am have been in the wellness space for god a decade at this point And I spoke at last year's AHS. I am on the board at Price Pottinger I'm also one of the co-founders of sip herbals an alternative coffee That is aimed at those of us who suffer from autoimmune conditions because I have several and can't have coffee And so that is that's who I am Me I'm Daryl Edwards. I'm the founder of Primal Play. I'm an author and So it's the reason why I'm on this panel really is because when I first came to to events like AHS Around 10 10 years ago. I was pretty much one of not even a handful of individuals of color So and I'm not even from the US. So so I felt I traveled across the world To to come to an event which was talking about health and well-being But I didn't see witness any inclusivity or or health equity or or and certainly there was a lack of diversity Hi, I'm Simone Miller and I am a chef and cookbook author and activist my Business is Zen belly And I have been in the wellness space sort of not on purpose But just because I've done gluten-free and paleo cooking for a long time and before that I was a massage therapist So I've sort of been in the wellness space for a long time and I've seen a lot of the sort of Not so beautiful parts of it and Darrell asked me to be on this panel to talk about Some of the anti-semitism that can happen in the wellness space when the conspiracy theories get brought into it So that will be my youth today And I'm Isabelle and Some of you heard this morning. I am a board certified health coach and I'm approaching this not just from Making sure that there is inclusivity from a cultural ancestral perspective, but also in terms of the diversity of people that need You know help and that come into the ancestral wellness space looking for solutions and how not everybody Is operating from the same level? A lot of them have very limited chronic illnesses They're not looking for the six pack or optimize their health so they can work 14 hours a day to build empires But what they're looking to do is really to just get through the activities of daily living without exhausting all of their energy resources And I want to make sure that there is a lot of inclusivity in that space as well Excellent so before we dive into it and I think that the you know Generally what we want to first cover is why we need this panel? Why are we here? Why are we having this conversation? But or Lisa is going to talk about empathic listening before we dive right in just because you know Not hey, let's have this empathic listening conversation all we're not here to you know have that conversation But just so that you you understand that when you're listening to us and thank you all for being here By the way when you're listening to us when you ask that you first start with an open mind you take all of your Thoughts and what you've already preconceived and all of your notions of what you thought you were going to hear What you think you're gonna say and you sort of put those to the side and that you listen with an open mind with the intention to understand Stephen Covey has one of his his seven habits of highly effective people is to first seek first to understand before being understood And so if you just seek to understand then that will open your mind to what we are going to share and If you are really wanting to go the extra mile if you repeat some of those things in your own words to other people that would be great But also it creates a safe space for us and it creates a safe space for everyone who may come into this Environment looking for the solutions that Isabel was talking about and they're looking for just to make it through the day How can I get better? How can I feel better? Those people will find this a safe space if you go at it with an empathic listening Employed okay, so that's all we're asking is just to listen empathically and Hopefully that will be your takeaway is that you learn hey something new that I can take back and say hey You know what? I didn't realize that this is what was going on because a lot of the things that we've been taught our systemic It's been in the system. We didn't realize that we were taught this this way And when then we wake up and we grow up and we are hoping to learning new things and we go Oh, that was wrong or I shouldn't have gone down that street And then once we realized that what we were doing was not the right thing then we can make that change So just hoping that you all would listen empathically with an open mind so that when you leave here You leave with something to take away to make us all better because if all of us are Moving towards wellness then we all move together right if one of us is sick. We're all sick All right, so let's let's talk about why do we need to have diversity equity and inclusion? Why is this something that we need to talk about? Why don't we start with Daryl? okay, um When I suppose I could talk from a personal personal point of view When what attracted me to this space is You know most of us here nearly all of us here. We want a health journey We encounter a certain aspect of knowledge where you go. Oh my goodness. I found the answer I found something that resonates with me that is very useful to me And I want to not only impact my own life, but those closest to me and the world around me and What I found in a very short space of time is that Many people believe that if you are Sick or an unhealthy That it's only your fault It's purely down to personal responsibility And there are no other aspects that inform your health apart from the choices you make as an individual and for somebody like myself who Came from a very impoverished background ridiculously poor background and became very successful I Recognize that even for myself There was an aspect of privilege that I had Within that space which completely discounted what it would be like for someone who didn't have access to my education Who didn't have access to my resources? And so so many people have disenfranchised from this messaging and Whenever I would have heart to heart about this Whenever I would speak to people about this Usually I'd be confronted with Well, you're just a socialist you just have communist views you have no idea about the politics in this country You know, I'd just be I'd just be hit with a brick wall of of you just don't understand and and I'd be saying well Hold on a second, you know, why do you feel that year after year? We are not opening up To to more inclusion why we're seeing exactly the same faces. Why do people feel uncomfortable? Coming into these spaces why aren't the audience is coming to our blogs and buying our books and feeling that there's representation and and so I probably ignored that aspect for a few years and felt it wasn't that relevant I remember thinking it is purely about the fact that well, I found it if I Had the desire to look for that information. Surely anyone else can But I learned a valuable lesson speaking to my mother She passed away a couple of years ago, and I apologize if I'm gonna get a little bit upset But I remember saying to her oh mom, you know There's two things you have to do in relation to improving your health And she's like what that's what's that son? What's that son and as well like well first you need to stop using those cooking oils you use and she says Okay, what oil should I use and I was like coconut oil mom coconut oil? And she went tell me about this coconut oil and I was like extra virgin Coconut oil mom that's what you need to be using and she's okay She's I'm gonna go to the store and buy some extra virgin coconut oil And so my mother's Jamaican heritage and and I remember the next time I spoke to she was like Darrell I probably won't continue in a Jamaican accent, but she was like She basically says do you know how much this oil costs She went do you really think that this is helpful to me when I have no idea how anyone could afford to buy oil like this And I was like I just didn't consider it. I was okay mom. I can buy the oil for you It's not a it's not a problem. She says no no, that's not that's not the solution That's not the issue. She went you're telling me that this is the way to health, but I can't access that health The next time I went to the house to my mom's house She was like come come into the kitchen come to the kitchen and she went I was like, oh, what's that? And she went I'm making coconut oil and I was like what what I just what do you mean? You're making it and she went my grandmother taught me how to make this when I was a child Right and she was basically like heating this oil Kind of like, you know low temperature and just kind of skimming off the fat from the top and then and she made this coconut oil and and so that was That made me realize how much of my culture I was not aware of that this was something that I couldn't you Can't just go to Whole Foods and buy it is something that people can actually make for themselves The second thing that I encounter was My mother was pre-diabetic. I remember saying to her mom mom mom Thank goodness. I'm your son mom because You know I Can help you I can help you out Right, I can help you out mom and she's like what do I need to do what don't need to do son? And I says mom you need to choose these foods You know I says you know how you like you know your plantings and your yams and like all these starch in cassava And all these vegetables that you get you need to get rid of all of those Right get rid of all of those because I get they're high in carbohydrates and she's like, okay She's like I don't really understand this carbohydrate stuff. She's I don't understand and then she said to me She went so what you're telling me then is that these foods That I've been brought up on as part of my culture my heritage You're telling me that these are bad foods and I was like yes mom They're bad foods and then she said to me well hold on a second What about your grandmother who's 95 years old who's never taken any medication in her life and this is all she eats so So so why are these foods inherently bad? So that was another question mark for me which which made me acknowledge that there was a cultural aspect to the ancestral space which is basically ignoring most of of who is a demographic you know of the Demographical composition of people within this space and that's why I thought it was important for us to have this conversation And that's why I petitioned to AHS to have This discussion on diversity equity and inclusion Thank you, so that is such an important and thank you for sharing those Stories that really it helps it helps so much to understand would anyone else like to Contribute to that answer. Why why do we need to have this panel? I can go I think You know, we all are familiar with that phrase. We don't know what we don't know and I think that through no fault of our own many times we remain in you know, the bubbles whether that is the physical spaces or that is the intellectual understandings or the preconceived notions and the assumptions and all of the things that go into shaping the things that we say and we think And we don't realize what are the other Perspectives that come into play in other people's lives people who don't have the same experiences that we that we have people who don't have the same support systems people who don't have the same level of The beginning point when it comes to their health people who don't have the same level of resources that they don't have That we have so it speaks to what we said at the beginning, you know, maintaining that open mind and understanding that our collective experiences can make a big difference in all of our understanding and We need to have that In order to move forward and make sure that what we're trying to promote is accessible to everyone not just to a select view So how would you say you've been negatively impacted by Not having enough focus on diversity. I Would like to just sort of jump in there and say that As a person of color as a person who's living in a larger body As a person who is not usually represented in these faces it Can negatively impact your mental health and I think that's something that we also don't take into consideration When we have healthism going on and by healthism I mean putting moral standards on health saying that oh if I as Darrell was saying if I do all these things right then I am a good person because I am healthy and that's not true There are so many things that are outside of our our control There are social determinants of health that are outside of people's control where they their environment what they're exposed to they live In food deserts they live in places where they don't have the education and they don't have access and So personally I was affected in not seeing people who were represented in my circle as Darrell said when we came into the space ten Years ago. I think there were three Maybe me and you So so that's really what happened and so for me what happened is I tried to fit myself into this community by Morphing into what I thought health should look like and so I developed an eating disorder And so I decided hey I want to be as healthy healthy and small and assimilate to what these this So this environment is saying I should eat how I should look how I should move how I should Associate how everything and so I tried to do that because there was no representation of anyone who looked anywhere near like me where if I go back into my all of my Ancestors like I can go almost very far back into my ancestry and everyone looks like me Everyone is shaped like me everyone eats the way that I was told was not healthy, you know You you can't have those things, but if we decide that we need to be and you ask the question about why is it important And I didn't sort of jump in there But diversity is important because if we even think on a biological level when you have any environment that has low Diversity or no diversity diversity only serves to make every ecosystem stronger And if we're gonna make this ecosystem stronger and affect the world and say hey We want everybody to be just as healthy just as strong. It's not just for me It's for everyone then we have to have diversity you can't have just every single thing be homogenous Because it's gonna die It'll just not be healthy and won't die and that's not our goal Our goal is to help everyone to be as healthy as they possibly can be not just such an amazing point So for everybody here in your mental camera, I want you to just click a highlight Put a little asterisk Remember this because I I think that you know we all here are interested in biology and this idea of a stronger ecosystem I mean nothing could be more apt a better a better You know comparisons, so thank you. Sorry the biology teacher came out in me so Anybody else? I mean I I also have ideas about how you know the lack of diversity has negatively impacted me and you know I do a lot of coaching with clients and the thing that I see is You know so many of us have been told that you know that a Risk factor for diabetes and for certain health conditions is blackness So many of us come to health thinking that We inherently are Destined to be ill because of what we're being told in you know the medical space And so I have had to really you know Reshape my own thinking and also working with clients reshape their thinking and let them understand that this is not our Destiny to be ill You know we we do know what and now that we have dug into the ketones and all of that that you know The foods that we're eating have a huge negative impact on us But when you think of that, you know, it's just your destiny your genes then there's no point in making any changes And so that's what ends up happening. Many people feel you know, there's just no point Yeah, and I think in terms of conventional medicine, you know we see you know Race-based medicine as it's called whereby, you know, there are still Pharmaceutical interventions that are given to somebody of my heritage Just based on the fact that I'm of my heritage And when you look at the origins as to why that decision was made It was based on On something that was outmoded and outdated and racist in origin. So so for example, even things like the EGFR, which is you know, the kind of kidney filtration rate which determines the health of your kidneys So there's a calculation which is made which is automatically adjusted for somebody of my heritage because they assume that our kidneys are more likely to degrade as Because because of our heritage, right and that decision was basically made by someone who said because Our skins were thicker Then of somebody of European heritage, that's why we need to adjust the kidney readings for example That's that's one of the examples, right? And of course now we know that our skins are exact just as the same level of thickness as everyone else the very bit The variability of skin thickness exists between every one of all heritages all origins, you know Wherever they are in the world, but but it still persists in in modern medicine and and and and it's especially Pretty brazen in the US because in the UK They are starting to remove those options of asking you what your heritage is Before they decide what medication you should be on where was here things are so classified by the social construct of race That you know informed decisions can be made by our healthcare professionals on something that is basically isn't isn't evidence-based And coming into the kind of alternative health space You know the average reading age in the US is 11 years old 11 years old We complain so often about how many people suffer from chronic disease in this country, right? We talk about how many people have prediabetes and diabetes how many people are suffering from heart disease and all of these ills And we go if only people would just change their diet only people just do more exercise only people would do we do we do would do What we don't realize is all of the information that we ourselves may have access to improve our health is not going to be Understood by the vast majority of this country. They are completely barricaded from access to this information So all the books that we've read all the research that we've looked at You know all the podcasts that we listen to all the people who really need that information are not going to do any of those things They're not going to buy those books if they can even afford to buy the books They're not going to be listening to those podcasts even they could listen to those podcasts all that information is going to be going totally over their heads so for me Part of really thinking about health equity is Thinking about those who are the most impoverished in society who who are the At the end of the scale in relation to health outcomes in London for example And I know it's the same here with the zip codes, you know Your zip code dictates your likelihood of premature death, right more so than any of anything else that we can do in this country, right in London You can go there's a subway The tube it's called the underground you can go from West London, which is affluent To East London, which isn't as affluent and there's a 25 year difference in life expectancy 25 year difference Traveling along the district line from West to East. It's only about what a 15 miles And within that 15 miles literally every single step of the way as you come through central London and go out to the East average life expectancy drops Significantly, so we know it has nothing to do with their diets being worse and that part of the city That they're less active in that part of the city that they're not doing the right things in that part of the city We know the number one fact and contributory factor to people's health in that region is Is money is better facilities? It's a safer environment for them to partake in helpful Activities so so this for me is something that I'm really really passionate about and when I I Started to produce I have these animal moves fitness decks for like these fitness cards And I remember thing to myself. I want to start having some diversity in my cards So I'm a creating these cards and there's there's there were all shades on these cards, right? And I remember finishing People started ordering these packs of cards and somebody said to me they sent me an email and they went This is all this is all really good stuff though But I'm not happy that you don't have a blonde lady in your pack of cards Right a blonde white woman in the pack of cards And I remember I wrote back to myself. There's a red head. There's a brunette. There's a blonde. There's a blonde male Right and I've got Indian Chinese black different shades of black It's like a united colors of Benetton or Coca-Cola You know, I mean, um, but but even that struck a chord of That person saying I don't feel represented in your pack of 52 cards Even though her heritage was certainly represented in those cards So I thought to myself Imagine it the other way around to this lady I was as imagined every time I buy a book a fitness book If my children buy books, what did they see? Who are the people that they see? Constantly and how are they impacted and affected by this? So so it's we have to put ourselves in one of us, you know and another person shoe to recognize How traumatic this can be for those of us who feel victimized to the world around us? I Just want to add that I Think a lot of people are in this space because they've been somehow failed by conventional Western medicine and it has they've been Gaslight or they've been dismissed and they've had to be their own advocates And I've just through my experience. It seems like that's why most people are here So I just want to sort of throw out there that if this space does the same thing to anyone who doesn't look like them it's It's not improvement. It's just it's just a lateral move really you're not you're not doing any better if you're still basing everything on a Healthy white male who can change his diet a little exercise 10 more minutes a day and have a six pack because that's not That's not the norm and that's not reality for most people So to just sort of keep that in mind of the reason that you're you've been disillusioned by You know your traditional doctor situation That's what most people are still feeling in this space even though it's supposedly alternative and better and more Knowledge filled I Really love that point and I've had this similar experience when I started the black carnivore community I had a lot of people Especially women coming up and saying I really appreciate you know You're starting this space and saying that they didn't feel welcome in the wellness space because there is this real focus on Thinness on perfection on you know absolute like whatever that perfectness is and so for people who are not You know worried about like you know fitting into that perfect ideal But want to take care of their families and do all the things that they got to do that that hyper focus on Perfection was just too much and it just you know sends you in a crazy place And so in my community, I really try to focus on like what are the benefits of the carnivore diet? What does it help you to achieve and what does it do for you? Do you have more energy? Are you happier and all of that and you know the weight loss is great But you know that's not really the focus of both focus is getting healthier and being so that you can actually live your life more fully whatever that looks like and And I think that that is really important and something that you know I would like to see more of that brought to the wellness community and not You know and not this hyper focus on just you know, I don't know I guess that everybody wants to be Superman It would be lovely, but it's just not gonna happen. We all are gonna get sick eventually and die and I don't know why I said such a morbid thing You know, but but trying to be Superman. It's just too much. It's too much pressure And even Superman has kryptonite, right? So so we acknowledge we acknowledge the weakness of this superhero Whether it's kryptonite or Lois Lane or his love for humanity, right? But yeah, as you say in the wellness space sometimes any weakness is seen as You know, it's a yeah, it's like a moral issue. It's almost like an evangelical issue Where by you know, we have to go out and and and and bring people to the law We've got to convert go out to the Gentiles and say hey do it harder come to come to do some more Do more um, but but but actually I feel it's it's probably even more likened to a church where you go Oh, whoa, hold on a second. No Let's keep this congregation as small as possible, right? Because we have to be so perfect in our congregation We can't let there's not many people who we can let in and and I think there's in a there's an elitism that exists Which makes most of us feel uncomfortable Which most of us can't attain which leads to people having you know being orthorexic Which leads to people, you know becoming anorexic which leads to bigger rex you as it's called now for Men like myself who feel oh I need to be bigger stronger more lean more jacked more cut more take steroids You know, this this is a reality And and you know the biggest that the largest recreational drug use for young men are steroids for example Because because people want to look a particular particular way And I'm not embarrassed to say when I when I entered this space. I Felt I was one of the elite to be honest And I didn't have that much Compassionate empathy for others because I felt now now I'm now part of the gang And I feel I belong and isn't this great to be this way But the longer I've been in this space and you live life and you recognize that there are so many things that are outside of One's control and there are so many things that are dividing us And they're excluding many individuals. I think we have to do better collective We have to do a lot better We have to be sincere and serious about wanting to change the world and change in the health outcomes of those that we say that we love Humanity so so, you know That's the reason why we haven't discussion isn't just about having a conversation And I talk about things which aren't that palatable and I've been uncomfortable. It's what can we do? How can we act differently to ensure we truly can help others who can benefit from access to To some of this information which is accessible accessible and is like changing and can make Difference a positive difference to many And it's not pie like there's enough for everyone. So no one's getting pushed out By more people being invited in I like pie I like to Assimilated to sunshine, you know, my grandmother used to say, you know, just because I'm sitting in the sunshine Doesn't mean there's not enough sunshine for you We can all sit in the sunshine if we would just stop thinking this Lack mentality of there's only enough for me and I'm so elite and I'm so cool and you're not cool It's the mean girl spirit, you know, everybody's saying mean girls. You can't sit next to me Right, we want we want everybody to sit next to us because again if if we're not if one of us is sick If one group of us is sick, we are all sick. I There's no other really way around that and I think that all of us can Look outside and look for example at the veganism environment and Look at it with a critical eye and see The religious like aspect to it But there are those aspects to it that we hold very dear and there are very much several parameters that we look at in the same way and That we think that everybody should conform to those parameters as well I mean, I think it's really important to focus on this as well or to broaden the audience who is willing and it to listen to our message because You know, we are pushing back against You know forces that want to Commodify all of our foods so that we you know, we don't get to like have grass-fed meat or any meat that grew up You know that what isn't being produced so, you know, we have a lot of work to do in order to Just make sure that everybody has access to to good quality food that you know We aren't bombarded with all kinds of things You know that are in our environment and if we you know in order for us to be successful with that you know, we have to be able to take this message to a broader audience and and that audience is You know, I mean they have a variety of different beliefs They look a variety of different ways And so we need a variety of different people to talk to you know to our our family our friends our relatives and Be able to get that message out there So you know to your point about you know an ecosystem being stronger with more diversity That's how our Ecosystem of the wellness space become stronger and it gets bigger and grows by being diverse I think to add to Simone's point about what led us here You know, we're all curious We all question But I feel sometimes this questioning goes to an extreme To the point where because we don't believe this one thing that's conventional. We disbelieve everything So in terms of personal impact, I've been personally personally impact when I was told on social media That you know George Floyd didn't die That George Floyd wasn't real that it was a staged incident for example These are some of the conversations that people like myself Are involved in engaging having to witness having to listen to Didn't you see the video? Didn't you want you horrified by what you saw? How do you know it was real? Maybe it was a you know a European person wearing a mask You know, I saw a video somebody sent me a video like that for example And there were there were leaders within this space To hold some of the most horrendous views and this isn't just about difference of opinion or about freedom of speech Her endless view is pretty much whoever you are on any particular spectrum and we Embrace some of those individuals we lord them because they may have a great idea in one particular aspect of wellness But we don't hold them to the same standard as if it was Joe blocks doing exactly the same thing We we we accept What they say because they have something beneficial to say in relation to something that we believe And I could provide many many examples of the absolute gutter Disgusting commentary I've seen the same on Simone's social media Absolute disgusting But but as soon as soon as you take as soon as you take a stand to say look I I don't feel you know, I don't feel this is acceptable that you're denying The death of George Floyd for example It's incredible Who and what comes out of the woodwork and you recognize the true feelings of many individuals come out At moments at moments like that and I don't think they realize the harm that it does for people who like Simone Or like me when you hear these conspiracy theories and you hear these and And it might not even be a conspiracy theory There is just so many social aspects and I'm gonna put that in quotes Because it's not necessarily just put into a social box because social determinants affect our health So if I'm traumatized even in microaggressions every single day every time I wake up every time I go on social media These microaggressions those affect my physical health and they affect the next person's physical health by just reading this thing Just exposing them to this. Yeah, so they don't understand that. Oh, no, it's okay. They're just a little weird We're still gonna have them at this conference or we're still gonna have them on my blog or we're still gonna put them on my podcast It's okay. It's not okay. Yeah, it isn't it isn't okay. You know Somebody can look at that incident of George Floyd and go it doesn't really affect me that was somebody else They may pity the situation that I it's okay for me. I see myself in him When I watch that nine-minute video, I am there Anyone who looks like me is there So when somebody denies that's something like that took place and puts it down to some government Sign up or some conspiracy and that it was staged. They don't understand it could be me That was there and when I asked these people what if it was me? Well, I wasn't there. I don't know if that was you, you know People don't realize how much this affects people like me and it was only when I went to you know I'm Simone speaks about antisemitism But it's only when I went to her page and saw some of the comments posted in relation to to her being Jewish If I didn't if I didn't enter that space, I'd have no idea I'd be ignorant I could sit back and go It's not that big a deal But it really is a big deal and many of us who feel protective who feel that we were in a safe space Need to step outside and believe people like myself like those on the panel when we speak up about this Because it's very easy just to switch off the notifications for somebody or so I'm not gonna listen to that person or they're overreacting in relation to this. We're not overreacting We're not overreacting This is happening and that is why many of us who believe that we're kind of taking the charge and saying we want to be a Part of this rather than feeling like we want to be excommunicated and go, you know what I've had enough of this space Which trust me I felt that way many many many times. I could why should I why should I be the person who decide? I want to stand and battle for this Why should I it'd be far easier for me to step back? But then it just makes it easier for those who don't want somebody like me in this space. That's all that happens And I sincerely hope people listen to us as Uncomfortable as it is as much as we don't want to have these conversations But we need to because it's the only way that we're going to make true progress in relation to topics like this Well, we are coming up on the end of our time But we do have time for questions Should we should we take some questions? Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I was just gonna say to add on to what Daryl said is that I think there's this real slippery slope that happens and that most people again who are here are Here because they've been failed in some way and I've seen Through I was a massage therapist So I was in the wellness space there and then being in the wellness space here I saw a lot of this thing that happened where people have a very understandable extremely warranted mistrust of something like big pharma And that sort of turns into this mistrust of everything And so it's like when Daryl was saying the people who are saying I don't believe anything Unless I was there to see it with my own eyes That is aside from being like So narcissistic, I don't even know how someone's brain goes there But it's very It's like real Holocaust deniery like anyone who thinks that nothing happens unless they were there to see it is Deranged and it's sort of like this Slippery slope thing that happens where I like yes, you know, maybe big pharma doesn't have our best interest in mind Maybe they are really just trying to make a profit sure But that does not mean that George Floyd was a false flag that you know a school shooting was a false flag that That George Soros is you know up there with his puppet strings Controlling everyone and that I'm over here with my Jewish space laser like Zapping you all with Bill Gates microchip so I can like control your brains like It goes there and like it's funny, but it's also like it's funny because it's ridiculous, right? Like and there's there's parts to all of these ways of thinking some of them do You know, they make sense and they resonate with people, you know, like why should we trust the government? Sure but the sort of drop-off of the slippery slope that happens is harmful and it's harmful to anyone who Is different than the people who are wrapped up in these theories and it doesn't make any space for people to Be who they are and it's just I would just like to sort of have that in everyone's Mind, I can't zap it into you because I don't actually have a Jewish base laser Otherwise I would and I would have just stayed home, but is it like a man in black zapper? Is that is that maybe? Maybe So like just keep that in mind when you hear these Ideas like you have to sort of work backwards and figure out where did this actually come from and is is is it based in fact? Or is it based in fear and a little like insanity? So now believe in your any experience. It's not your own just simply invalidates everybody else's Experience and if we come at things with that Viewpoint then we simply cannot get to an understanding at any level and that includes our health as well But it's like we have social media where people are talking about their experiences and sharing them So clearly everybody is interested in other people's experiences. There's just certain experiences that people are not interested in and I think that you know that needs to be be stated. I mean because You know, it's not all Experiences that are being invalidated and I have to say you know for me I am not a person who generally enjoys confrontation Both my parents are lawyers My mom loved to be in court and loved to get into a fight with somebody and would do it even on her own time but that was That was not me, but I still felt the way I felt in this space I Decided I had to create a social media platform Where I had directly addressed these things and I don't know if you all are familiar the paleo FX Livestream I had them on my channel and asked them all of these questions And this is where you know a lot of their beliefs were we you know I pushed back on them and really tried to understand You know what was going on in their heads, but that was not the first time that I'd raised this issue I also a called out Sean Baker and the meet our ex community for creating a really hostile environment For for black people who were part of that space in 2020 in June of 2020 and he told me You know, he said I was explaining how a woman was how she was How she was made to feel in one of these online groups when someone basically spent 10 minutes ranting about why everyone is talking about some guy who got killed and And he said well, did she say anything and I said I mean if you're a one-black person in a group of 20 people I don't know that you feel it comfortable saying anything and he said well I was her fault she should have said something and I said no you're the leader here It is your responsibility to you are setting the tone for what happens in this community And that's when we went back and forth and that was you know the result of that was me leaving meet our ex putting out a couple of videos explaining what happened and I you know, and I do try to raise this because I think that it is important to know Who it is you're listening to and just because you are getting you know Some information that is helpful and accurate, you know around health that I don't know that I don't know that I always necessarily trust it I mean, we've already talked about systemic racism and how how that affects the medical industry How that affects even the way we we think when we go to the doctor. Well, I don't know I mean, I feel like when I am dealing with someone who is not Necessarily respectful of my experience. I don't know that I'm necessarily going to get the best medical care from them even if they are, you know an expert in the field, so Anyway, that was my own rant that these are things that I have been thinking about and I think are really important and You have something to say. Yeah, you have a question. We are gonna make sure questions happen. Of course Well, I just wanted to add that Empathy helps to build trust within our community When we listen and we are open then it helps to build trust That trust is what will welcome other people who may not look like you. It'll help them to feel safe It will help them to open up. It will help them to share their ideas and That diversity of ideas is what is going to help our community to become stronger and to propel it and to affect other people When you are in these circles and you're not affecting anyone then it's kind of Pointless, you know, it's there's a saying that says if you're the smartest person in your circle, you're in the wrong circle Right same goes with our health and wellness if you're there's somebody that you are you're in the circle Everybody's healthy. Everybody's well. Yay us. What's the point? Who are we helping? How are we making this world a better place Because we can all sit in this room and be healthy and talk about how great we squat and how much we can do How great our food is. Yay us. Who are we helping? What change did we make? What safe space that we create for someone who doesn't look like us or think like us? We didn't So let's I think that's the importance of this this panel is just to encourage you to maybe think outside the box Go into circles where maybe you are different Understand how that feels Walk into a room where you're not the where everyone isn't doesn't look like you. Everyone doesn't think like you Talk to people who have different maybe different thoughts. I don't know sure and and just to just to add to that and I'm the only male on the on the on the panel But In all serious, you know, I had a discussion Talking about, you know, there was a there was a time where there were certain leaders in this in this space Who who were rape deniers who said there was no such thing as rape? right and I feel that's out. That's her bar and of course the of course rape exists But they these individuals had their justifications for this right and My thoughts are if you give these people a platform Even if you feel it's worthwhile hearing what they have to say in this matter Unfortunately the one in four women who have been subjected to sexist sexual abuse or worse Are going to be feel traumatized and we may not know who those people are they may be sitting in that In that forum staying silent being traumatized and having flashbacks over the events that occurred And it strikes me that even for myself as a man, you have to step outside of where you feel comfortable I have to realize there was an advert by What's that Samson recently you may have heard about there had an advert women a woman jogging at 2 o'clock in the morning Headphones in having a great time. Hey, I'm getting fit at 2 o'clock in the morning and people started saying hold on a second There were obviously no women in that room with the advertising execs when that was when that was passed Right and and many people like I don't understand. What do you mean? What do you mean? Yeah, because because a woman would not go out to run on a public In a public park at 2 o'clock in the morning, right because they know they know it's not a safe space for them Whereas the male advertising exec would probably go isn't this a great idea? It's peaceful There's no one else outside isn't this great in the moonlight and that's almost the point I'm trying to make that's the power that I'm trying to draw It's very easy for us to stay where we feel safe and where we feel comfortable and we just have no idea How the others feel and think about a particular issue? Well, yeah, so I I think it's time to move on to questions So I practiced medicine for 40 years In the ancestral health community, there's a lot of trashing of allopathic medicine And for 35 years, I was chronically sleep deprived Because I was on call every third night saving lives in the middle of the night with drugs That saved somebody's life So I think this community needs to be more open-minded to the benefits Not oblivious to the economics of big pharma Okay, but I have used drugs. I'm an anesthesiologist and critical care physician And so I think this community needs to be more open-minded And and has in the past excluded the benefits of allopathic medicine And in my practice in the pain clinic, which I transitioned to after retiring from 35 years of sleep deprivation. I Used integrative medicine all the end has ancestral health concepts trying to help people in chronic pain Minimizing interventional procedures, but I found that it's very difficult to change human behavior And unless you can remove pain With injections and procedures that I specialized in You won't Have a receptive patient once you relieve their pain They may start to believe that they need to change their diet their sleep habits Well, all the things we talk about in this kind of conference. So I'd like to see what this panel thinks about in terms of my suffering from hearing constant Disparaging remarks about allopathic medicine so You want to take it or there's yeah? I just want to say that I Was using big pharma as an example I Like thank you for bringing that up because I've actually really sort of gone a little bit backwards I went a little dogmatic with the whole wellness thing when I first realized that I felt better eating a certain way and you know Prescriptions have so many side effects my current reality Is that the only reason I can sleep at night is because of trazadone and I would probably have panic attacks Daily without zoloft. So like I think that the wellness community needs to actually look at Like holistic care everyone sort of makes that mean all natural But holistic should mean holistic and I do absolutely think that there is a time and a place for medications and I Didn't want to like because I know that I was sort of using that as an example And I do think that like most corporations have some like gross stuff behind them But that doesn't mean that there's not a place for actual holistic care go Yeah, and I'm going to 1 million percent agree with you because As somebody who has a laundry list of chronic conditions that are very painful and cost a lot of fatigue And that's the patient population that I work with As I said this morning We need to remove the dogma that there is a one standard of care for everybody and that while Telling somebody to eat right and exercise is the right thing to do It is not sufficient for people to even get to that place We can all benefit to we can all benefit from making changes to improve our health But for a very large group of people There are far more Interventions that need to happen before they can even think about that particular Way of living so, you know, we need to remove that dogma and we need to understand that Everybody is different and that everybody needs different interventions and like Simone said, you know a holistic perspective is really necessary Because we live in the real world, you know, we don't live in the middle of nowhere with no access to TV and You know having to go to work from nine to five and having to raise three kids at home and having to make dinner and having to You know fulfill a million different Commitments that we all have So because we are in this environment, we have to consider what this environment has done to our collective health and the resources that we have in order to just cope sometimes Yeah, we have two more questions and only two more minutes. So I would love to hear both Thanks to the work you do Bob My question is some of you mentioned George Floyd and paleo facts and for people who are not aware of the conversation What happened? Where can they get more information? This might be opening a Pandora's box in the last minute and I apologize But I I have just been thinking for the last 20 minutes about How in the wellness space Do y'all think we can strike a balance between Hey, I have this set of lifestyle interventions that might dramatically help relieve your condition your symptoms your your woes and the awareness that Maybe you can't always just paleo harder Maybe this impact of the social determinants of health is really playing way way way Deeper and broader of a role in your condition like like the cohort of Diabetics who were in section 8 apartments in a violent neighborhood Who then in a study were transferred to a nice safe neighborhood with nice apartments? And all of their all of their diabetes blood work. I mean they're They're They're blood sugar their insulin handling and their Everything all of their markers started to improve just from the Intervention how do we strike a balance between? This is this set of things that I do That I've discovered and research that might help you and the people who don't respond to it And sorry if that's too involved. No, it's not. I think that the first step in trying to help anyone Is to let them know that you're not the guru. I'm coming at this from what worked for me And we may have to discover what works for you Maybe it's two or three of these things and one of those things and something we haven't discovered yet But I just like to offer this to you not this is the only thing that's ever gonna work And if you don't do this you're not a good person like that's kind of what the wellness industry has turned into is This is it if you don't eat this way if you don't do this way if you don't move this way This is it right but if we come at it from a perspective of It's not binary. It's not black or white. It's all nuanced all of us have nuanced situations And what one person what works for Darrell isn't gonna work for me what works for for Simone Isn't gonna work for me or might we could figure it out, right? So maybe coming at it from that perspective would help and and it would also help people again build trust Like hey, I'm trusting this person think about it. If you have a leader who's never wrong They never make mistakes They can never say hey, I was I made a mistake there You don't trust them and you're not gonna hear anything they have to say But if you come at it from a perspective of maybe I'm wrong But here's some things that might work and let's figure it out together. Then people are more apt to listen I think we're out of time or already time in this past or where the lunch break was starting But we appreciated all of your sharing Let's thank them for their bravery to come here and put this together and share Bravery to come here and put this together and share