 Go After Terrorists and Bandits now says President Bahari, two service chiefs and ex-presidential candidate Kinsley Mogalu, accuses the Army of arson in an emote state. Well, this is plus politics, I don't know either of them. President Mohamed Bahari, after a national security meeting with service chiefs and heads of other security agencies, placed a charge on them to go after the terrorist and bandits terrorizing Nigerians, especially on the highways. According to him, security operators will not rest until Nigerians are at peace. Well, joining us to discuss this is security expert Dennis Amakri. Thank you very much, Mr. Amakri, for joining us. What do you mean? Great. This is not the first time that we're hearing the President make statements like this, go after the terrorists. Terrorists will, they will soon meet their waterloo. We've heard these types of statements and we continuously see these bandits release all kinds of mayhem on Nigerians in different places. I mean, we've seen kidnappings upon kidnappings and killings sometimes, but all these strong words from Mr. President, unfortunately, seems not to be, you know, more forcing into action. A very, very important event happened in the last 24 hours where a court in Abuja had declared those bandits as terrorists and that declaration carries with it a lot, a lot of things. So I think the President was in order by asking the service chiefs to go out now and deal with those terrorists. Because remember, when the Tokano jets were delivered to them, they could not use them because the contract conditions don't allow using those days on bandits who are seen as just ordinary thieves, you know. They are supposed to use it on terrorists. But now that the court has declared those guys to be terrorists, then I think we are heading somewhere. I want to quickly point out some of the issues that would constitute this push by Mr. President and this statement. We also know that the Kaduna, Abuja Highway has somewhat become a point where these people continuously kidnap, whether they're bandits or not, but there's a lot of kidnapping, killings. You saw the videos from last week of, you know, the cars that people were taken from. I don't, thinking about it is already scaring for me. But they continuously go to those places to snatch people from vehicles every single time and get away with it. So I'm wondering, because you and I know that if you travel from one place to the other in Nigeria, especially on the highways, the federal highways, you would see points, whether they be police checkpoints or army checkpoints. How do these people continuously get away with murder on that particular stretch? Because that stretch actually encompasses those areas that we have been referring to as some governed spaces. And those spaces are areas where, you know, you don't have the presence of police or, you know, or soldiers around. So they are out there, behaving as if they own the place. You remember all these some religious people that go into the bush to go and see them and talk with them. They are all hidden out there. But I know that because of maybe some incumbrances, they would not really go there and flush them out. But with what is happening right now, I believe that they should be able to focus and then, of course, clear them out. Because the Kanduna Apunja Road you just mentioned is becoming a real embarrassment, you know, where people cannot. And in four consecutive days, they were there operating, you know. So I think the military have to stop this cat and mouse. In fact, the police and the military have to stop the cat and mouse and deal with them because people should be safe to move from one place to the other. Let's talk about the army. Yesterday, I had a retired Air Vice Marshal on the show talking about the welfare of soldiers, you know, going to the National Assembly to ask for support, more support to be able to deal with this issue of insecurity. And it really makes me wonder. I was having a conversation with another person who said that we don't have enough soldiers in the country to deal with the insecurity that we need to, as we would want to. And that's why, you know, these people seem to have an upper hand. But is that really truly the case? Well, military, police and SDC, DSS, NIA all put together, not up to two million, you know, they're not up to two million. In a country of more than 200 million people, you know, even the police will be taken. The police is finding it so difficult to police this country because they are so thinly spread. They are about 400,000. And as 400,000, remember, we have 774 local governments in this country. Let's say they send a DQ to each of them, you know, the balance. Think of the Mopols that are following politicians around. And, you know, so you find out that it is inadequate, actually. But I don't know why they are not recruiting because that is what we have. And that is what the terrorists are doing that we are not doing. They constantly recruit, you know, and they allow people to join them with either money, food, all kinds of things, you know. So I think we should lift that ban on employment and unemployment. Employee put more people in the army, put more people in the police. And then, of course, even the DSS and the NIE, that way, we have a lot of operatives on the field. And then, of course, they can synergize and bring good results. If you, I mean, I know you have been a director in the DSS, but looking at the welfare of, again, members of the armed forces, looking at the welfare of police officers, I mean, have you seen a police barracks recently? Looking at the welfare of these people generally, why would anybody want to be recruited into any of these uniformed agencies? I mean, yes, people would want to put an end to the insecurity that we're facing. But what is, what's in the back end for them, who's protecting them, who's protecting their families? What's the fallback plan? Yes. That, when we say recruits, means that you have to do all necessary things. You have to do all necessary things. Because if you don't recruit, when you are recruiting, you are also thinking of salaries. You know, you are also thinking of housing. You cannot recruit officers and then tell them to go and look for accommodation. So the recruitment process includes all the necessary things that come with recruiting somebody, uniforms, salaries, housing, cars, that the officers and other men will be using. All these things have to come with that recruitment. So I believe strongly that there may be, that's what is holding them back, but we are in a situation of war. And I think the National Assembly should stand up and release money for this event to take place so that we can clear this out. It is dragging this country too bad. And then, of course, if you put it on a scale, the disadvantages are more than the advantages, you know, if we don't recruit. Let's talk about the Ethiopian example. I'm sure you have a bedside view of what's happening in Ethiopia with the TPLF and, you know, somewhat of a reprisal that's happening. Now, they're wanting to match on the capital. And you see that Ethiopia is recruiting every single person that they can find to join the army, maybe not necessarily through the normal means, but they're saying we need to fight off this enemy and this insecurity. Is that a route that we might want to go to, you know, stem the tide of what's coming at us? And during war, things do happen. More recruitment, only conscription, conscription, because if it is become so difficult, there will be conscription. During the civil war in Nigeria, many, you know, many people were conscripted into the army on both sides. Biafran army, we are conscripted people. The Nigerian army was conscripted. Right now, what we have is a voluntary army, if you like to join, if you don't like, you don't. But if they now break up a law that we are facing a situation and we need people to go in there and fight, then the Nigerian army is going to conscript, you know, they will say everybody above a T should come and register. And then of course, those people will register and then they will take who they will take and then send them to the war front, train them and send them to the war front. So yes, what is happening in Ethiopia is the right move because if they depend on the standing army, those guys might run over their capital. Hmm. Let's talk about the sympathizers and those who seem to be well wishes of these terrorists. Now, recently, Zamfara state government had shut down a bakery and a feeling station that they think has been servicing these bandits in that state. And you know what's going on in Zamfara and how much they have to deal with. But I'm asking this question in terms of Intel and how we can deal with that because it's one thing to try to fight off the bandits, but it's another if there are people who are still like moles or informants for these people or sympathizing with them in the case of the bandits. I'm wondering what the sympathizers are for. But like you see, they've shut down a bakery. Obviously, these are the people who feed them. And then the feeling station who feels their or the bikes or the motorbikes that they use to go around to commit this mayhem. Are we getting enough intel? Do you think people are really doing the best that they can do to keep themselves safe from these terrorists and making sure that they fish out those who seem to be their sympathizers? Yes, I think we have to change our approach in dealing with this particular situation. You know, one of the approaches that could be used is what we call the All Society approach, the All Society approach. Because when you look at what has been happening over the years, it is like we are looking at the army or the SSS or the police to go ahead and fight and then find the result of what is happening. We are sitting on the fence. This whole civilian population is sitting on the fence and it's not supposed to be like that. That's why I said if either the conscript or the people will become actively involved whereby you are either bringing in intel, you know, there are many details that can be brought. Who are the people that are selling them petrol to fill those bikes? How do they get them back motorcycles? Who bought them for them? You know, these are details that we will need. Because one thing you will know about situations like this is if you don't cut off the supply supply chain, you know, then it will continue. Because those sympathizers are making money, sending people in there, you know, helping the terrorists. So we want to know those people who are buying them the hillocks they are using. We want to find out those who are selling or giving them the AK-47. One AK-47 is about 400,000 Naira. One, a single one is about 400,000 Naira. Those racked up guys you see there, we can use the all society approach whereby everybody gets involved. Right now, we as a society are allowing only the military to be fighting it. And then in fact, ungrateful sometimes even accusing them or saying no, the bandits have better guns than them. And then of course, they are getting all kinds of publicity, you know. So we can all get involved whereby the society will go ahead and feed the information to the security agents, you know, who is buying the motorcycles for them, who is buying the hillocks for them, you know, who is selling them petrol, who is sending them food. These are all internal nuggets that we can actually, you know, invest. So let's talk about surveillance. I mean, we have the normal surveillance that is obvious. And I mean, I'm not an expert, but you know what I'm saying? How do we identify this surveillance and then minimize all threats whatsoever? Do we necessarily have to have security operatives on these surveillance? Because again, you ask a very important question, who's giving them these bikes? Who's who's giving them the moneys? How are they able to, you know, get all of these guns? If shouldn't there be some sort of surveillance, especially we still have some of these people who have surrendered in our custody. How are we using those people to be able to have the upper hand in winning this war, which is not a very conventional one? Well, you have already answered the question. See, because that is part of the surveillance we're talking about, or the involvement of the public, you know, or involvement of those deradicalized ones. It is not deradicalizing them and sending them back to their homes. Deradicalize them and use them, you know, and of course, debrief them. They will tell you a lot of stories of what is going on, you know, and then if you really want some serious information, you can send some of them back into the camp. You know, they can go in and say, oh, I ran out. I, you know, I was captured, but I escaped and I'm back now. And those people can give them all kinds of information that they can observe. And then of course, feedback. So there are a lot of things to do when it comes to surveillance. Technology will not deploy technology appropriately, you know, so that all these ones can be out there. You're talking of the Kaduna Wigah Expressway. Now, why don't we put in about two or three drones on that road? That two or three drones will always report back immediately, real time, whereby it will tell them, look, some groups are moving towards the expressway. Now, they might be bandits, you know, and they're going, and then of course, a response team will dash down there. We know that what happened about three, four days ago, where after the bandits have run away, then we have the security force is coming in. But if we have a quick person. Mr. Macaree, are you still there? Although we're having this disconnection issues, but I think that that's what we're going to wrap it up for now. Dennis Macaree is a former deputy director of the DSS, and he's been talking to us about insecurity in the country. Well, thank you for staying with us. We'll take a quick break and when we return, Kingsley Mogalu, former presidential candidate, accuses the Nigerian army of asin in emo state. We'll take a break. When we come back, we'll talk about that.