 Should Spotify pay a higher percentage of its revenues out? So I said at the start they only pay 65% and obviously they keep the 35% back to keep the business afloat and keep it going and growing whereas you've got sites like Bandcamp that pay 90% of the money out. So should Spotify increase the system or like 70% or 80% or higher and this will be 60? 65%. 65? Yeah. This is when we get into the debate about whether we get angry when they invest 100 million dollars into the Joe Rogan podcast deal because obviously they keep them back the money to make these deals. So that's obviously in their best interest though to grow and expand so it's on one side should they increase revenue on the other side they've got to run their business. And think about it. It's also showing you the value of your content it does that so much so for creators in terms of podcasting but it even gives you an idea even with the music the value of your content. No there's no single artist that's been paid 100 million dollar deal I get it but if you look at it 60% right or 65% if someone says hey you know we'll give you 65% of the deal that doesn't sound that bad right. It's not that violating but when it gets cut through all these other pieces then you end up with what you end up with. Exactly. So in some senses I'm sure the licensing deal that these labels have are little Joe Roganish right. We just never think about what are the labels getting in mass as a whole because Joe Rogan's deal is a to some extent not fully right but it's a licensing deal I'll say that it is a licensing deal I was going to say music licensing deal but because it's a licensing deal it does have some similarities so when you consider that part all right what does it really look like okay you're popping like this and you I think it's three years right 100 million for the licensing and you still own it that's the biggest difference between Joe Rogan right and the artist right yeah he still owns it so he can have control of it license it and then at the end of the day if he wants to pop and keep moving he can he can do that but just the fact that he's the one in control of the creative to a fuller extent changes the game versus artists who sign to this whole system where really the system is speaking for you and then the other situation is artists who might own all their stuff but the the leaders of your industry as a whole are still running through that same middleman which is the labels it's meaningful when the leader right because the leader sets the tone and Joe Rogan if Joe Rogan was signed some other type of entity and kind of ran through a record label-ish type system himself then that also would have diluted instead of lower bar for how the other content creators but since he wasn't on that now you you get to see a fuller vision and version of what that's worth exactly is this kind of this is why I want to talk about this topic really because the obviously the debate is sort of feels like is the people versus Spotify but I'm not trying to defend Spotify here but I'm trying to be like objective but it's not all their fault everyone's got a part to play and they're not in control they're not the gatekeepers the labels keep Spotify afloat they're not in control in this situation therefore it's not just them who should be getting attacked and that's what we're trying to do in this sort of discussion when I was trying to highlight that and it's the same when you talk about the Joe Rogan deal we know he's in control Spotify are in his hands he can pull out when he likes they've got no control over what he talks about they're obviously here to facilitate and move into the next level in terms of audience reach which is why the labels wrong spot five because they know they can get a lot of value from it yeah and which is why Spotify is like F this music stuff I want to go into this podcasting thing because Joe Rogan setting the tone and he's legitimizing the platform even more so for podcast but everybody's deal doesn't look like his and I'm not talking about payout I'm talking about ownership they they bought the ringer I believe as a whole which is I don't know if you know that podcast but us do bill Spence Simmons very credible and and adult podcast and they're buying a lot of this other stuff our right whether they're rule they're owning so it's cool okay yeah we the worth of that right the trickle down effect of even just licensing and having that exclusively even if we don't own it to trickle down to this other stuff that we actually own it is it's you know five billion dollars worth right how much the stock went up yeah exactly like that it's a it's a beautiful thing for them as a company and that puts them in a position where now you don't have this variable cost of whatever the licensing and what am I paying this month you have a fixed cost because I own it and whatever costs to run this shit and any profit on top of that whatever that looks like which I'm more interested in digging more into what they do they just the sponsorships that they're taking from or what but whatever the profit is you know margins only grow right with the cost being fixed yeah no see the funny thing is as well that a couple years ago Joe Rogan was asked about why is the podcast not spot by and he's like you know Tommy's like we don't need to be like I don't care about Spotify and now here we are and he signed a deal to show you how you know the money talks on the business side of things like wasn't in his best interest back then to be on Spotify didn't need to be but now he's got the capital behind him raise okay I'll consider you now as an option he was on Apple before I think he was I think he's an independent else he had a good relationship with Apple he's one of the top podcast on Apple but he he was just asked why you're not on there and he was like it's not relevant for us right now I didn't realize that he wasn't on it especially even like if he wasn't seriously on Apple because that's even more so about your worth right if he was on Spotify already he wouldn't have been able to get the deal that he got it's particularly particularly not to that extent one you're already on there so you know so you know we don't have to convince you to come over we don't necessarily have to talk exclusive to we also are gonna be valuing you less on the brand appreciation in that uh what's the word good it's good something what is based on brand I can't remember what it's called good will I believe the good will of your brand it's just based on the numbers because we already see what your numbers do on our platform right yeah exactly there's that additional aspect of okay taking people from other platforms we make it exclusive but that that changes the negotiation completely so the fact that he wasn't on there and in a sense held out whether it was all strategic or not there was a huge benefit to that deal and how it happened I know people who are like that with tiktok because tiktok was trying to get people to come over right just like so many of these platforms do these days yeah and I don't want to get on yet because I want to go do their system versus just being on there and then they see how operate let me get money to get on to the platform so yeah that's uh well I did not realize or think about the fact that he wasn't on on Spotify but that part should be noted for anybody who probably think let me go start a Spotify podcast and then get bought up by Spotify right I think it's a little different it's a little different because a lot of his viewership is actually on YouTube that's where a lot of the views came from because the video formats on there so he was still when he was still yeah exactly so that was his he's in control of that he obviously he was on Apple podcast he was the number one downloaded podcast last year above New York Times daily but he wasn't actually with Apple like exclusively so it just just shows you that and now and I'll see at the time I didn't care about Spotify because he was doing well on his own but now he's seen the potentials like okay I'm getting a lot of money here and they can take us even further now in terms of like our reach yeah he's also seen the long-term strategy behind it now but at the time it wasn't really relevant to him so and still owns it man yeah I'm sure there's bonus incentives attached to things and like all type of performance and back-end things that the deal I would not be surprised if the deal was at least 200 million plus after all my money is is allocated but I don't you know I don't know you should certainly shake up the industry now in the podcasting because also it's having it's like it's like a very big like watch a moment for like you know new big deals being signed yeah the we already saw the trend start where podcast just started to pop up more and more out of nowhere anyway it became a popping thing again so I mean you add on the fact that there's money in the game people are thinking complete everybody who has a podcast are like holy shit like they weren't that weren't even thinking about that kind of thing it just automatically just should change your perspective I get there's nobody who has a podcast especially anybody who has a consistent audience no matter what level that is they're now like yo this is a business opportunity it's the same as a shoot anything that starts more that could be niche the love like even sports right it was the culture in sports when people were making $30,000 a year or barely making more than anybody versus now you're making hundreds of millions right and now it goes from I have my my godfather was like he could have went to the league or he but his mom was sick so he rather just get a job closer to home right so he can take care of his mom you try you try take that till today I need to go to the league so I can take care of my mom right yeah yeah like it's a different level of money and people are farming their kids to go to go to the league and now I think people will be farming maybe not necessarily training their kids for a podcast all the there are people doing that with their kids and in terms of influences and take so yeah there'll be people a lot more strategically like saying oh no we're not just having fun conversations it's we can get some money we might not get a hundred mil but we can get a mil we can get 400,000 there's it's gonna be interesting and I think content as a whole though but people I don't think artists felt it as much as they should but that was a big win for content as a whole for anybody who notices and pays attention to the fact that that showed a sense of value alright like Drake should be looking at that alright everybody should be looking and then start realizing oh shit my content is just like Beyonce was with the Coachella and she showed that to Netflix like all those things are like okay hold up no this content is worth some money like oh I can't just just I just perform at Coachella and take the the performance fee I can get less on the front end it's like anything else and then resell us on the back end for fifty million dollars more than they would have paid me just to perform and it's something I'm already doing wait what you know that the content the way we think about content has to change and it's not just a podcast thing it's the mat work