 Welcome to the non-profit show. We are so glad that you joined us today or maybe you joined us another day via our recording but today we're excited to have you here and we're also excited to have our friend Jack Alotto, CFRE, very involved with CFRE and also serves as a trainer at fundraising academy with national university. Jack's joining us for two consecutive days in both days about handling donor objections. So today is part one, tomorrow is part two and you are going to want to join us for both of these conversations. So before we jump into the deep end with you Jack, we of course need to remind our viewers and our listeners across the globe who we are. So hello to you Julia. Julia Patrick is the CEO at the American Non-profit Academy and I'm Jared Ransom, your non-profit nerd and CEO at the Raven Group. Julia and I have been together since March of 2020 providing this content. Thank you to our amazing sponsors that have allowed us these conversations each and every weekday with esteemed guests like the one we have with us today. So I do want to say thank you to our presenting sponsors that include Bloomerang, American Non-profit Academy, fundraising academy at national university, non-profit thought leader, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk. So these companies, they not only invest here in our conversations but they also have a representative like Jack of Fundraising Academy joining us every single month to provide some insight and information about what's going on in our sector again around the globe. So it's really great to have these leaders from many different areas talk to us about what they're seeing, what's trending, what they can forecast. So today we are excited but if you missed any of this episode or you want to go back to our previous episodes because maybe you're joining us and thinking I had no idea that you've produced nearly 800 episodes. Well now you do and you can find them on Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Vimeo as well as YouTube and for those of you that enjoy podcasts go ahead and queue us up wherever you stream your podcast as well. Again nearly 800 of our episodes and probably over 700 unique guests. So those are the thought leaders that have joined us. So today we have Jack Alotto CFRE trainer at Fundraising Academy. Welcome back Jack. I'm glad to be here and what a great topic to be spending my Wednesday morning talking about. Jack it's exciting because this content and you can see my book very well worn comes from Fundraising Academy's actual textbook that is used and today we're going to drill into and drill down through I guess we should say handling donor objections which I think for most of us it's like the terror quotient. You know it's the thing that gives us the most fear and it seems like it's a bouncing ball. So let's get into the framework of what an objection is and then you have four main areas but first like help me understand why I shouldn't be afraid of an objection. Well that's a great question because in the cost selling cycle we look at objections not as a no but as a sign of interest. Your donor or your prospective donor is giving you an objection not they're not saying no they're saying tell me more and they are in the process when they come up with an objection they're in the process of eliminating any remaining concerns and you when you when you answer this objection you are moving them closer to saying yes. The other thing that I think is really important that we should understand as it relates to objection when a donor gives you a concern or an objection that might be something that they are hearing out in the community they are reflecting some concern or objection and it's really important for you as a fundraiser and for your wider organization to understand what that objection is about and when you uncover their concerns then definitely you're going to be able to answer those concerns and move closer to that yes that is really what you want to hear. I appreciate that Jack because I know being in the fundraising seat I have had that same fear of what if this donor what if this organization what if whomever I'm asking does say no like we're counting on this you know are we maybe even allotted some of this into into our budget or forecasted that right so so talk to us about the types because you have four here on the screen and for those of you listening I'll share those four and Jack's going to talk about them but the first one we have and you're going to dive into is the organization or cause and then we have the fundraiser which I'm presuming is the actual person the aversion to a decision and gift objection so talk to us about these four. So an objection to your organization or your cause may be something like I don't really believe that your organization is run efficiently or I have issues with how your organization uses its gifts they may it may be that this cause that you are presenting to them is not a priority for them or they may prefer to give to another organization working in this same space as it relates to a fundraiser and let's face it as much as we love each other here on the nonprofit show and we know that we're really wonderful human beings the fundraiser a donor might object to a fundraiser here's the thing that I typically see as it relates to objecting to the fundraiser they're saying you're not prepared or they may be saying you're not listening to me I'm telling you something and you're not listening to me and all of us has seen this enough fundraiser you are pitching me too aggressively or finally I don't really like you or you're not the right person to be asking me for this gift and you know Jared we talked about that earlier sometimes you have to have the right person who's built that relationship with that individual or that individual knows who's actually doing the asking they may have an aversion to a decision here's what you're going to hear when they have an aversion to a decision they may say the next time you're in this area please stop by and and let's chat again they're they're averting making a decision or they may say I want to think it over or the third thing that I've heard as an objection is I really need to discuss this with my spouse that's that they they want they want somebody to help them make that decision and finally the gift objection is I can't afford this you're asking me for too much or I'm all tapped out right now sometimes an objection may just be the opposite you're asking me for too little you haven't really gone out and qualified my gift and understand my ability to make a gift so we don't want to insult people by asking for too much but we also don't want to insult them by asking for too little the first time I heard that jack I thought there's no way someone be offended by asking for too little but I have seen it happen right and it and it is insulting for individuals that have been engaged you know they are primed for the ask you've done the cause selling education model with them you're at this you know the time of asking the solicitation and they're like that that's it how does this make a difference so I appreciate you bringing that angle to the conversation yes I actually have experience with a donor saying why did you ask me for so little you know it's almost like you asked me for 500 what and and he actually said this to me why didn't you ask me for 5000 so I hadn't qualified the donor which is a key part of the cost selling cycle make sure we understand their ability to give whether it's too much or too little yeah so jack when we start this conversation and you give us these four objection types organization or cause the actual fundraiser itself the person itself aversion to decision and then the gift objection do you really feel like every conversation that we have can really be attached to one of these things if we're if we're having some stress or some something I mean really we need to understand these four pieces at the beginning so that we can understand how to navigate forward yes I really do think it's really important for us if you look at the cause selling cycle during need discovery during presentation you're going to uncover things that later on may show up as objections when we are having the building that relationship in the cause selling cycle we are going to find out things about our donors or perspectives that may come up it may be you may be an organization a social service organization and your donor your prospect may be interested in feeding the poor but not necessarily in housing the homeless yeah yeah so if you go and ask them for a gift around housing the homeless that's a objection to the cause yeah you you haven't found you didn't ask them for the right cause which was feeding the poor yeah you know I really think so much needs to go into you know really the the prospecting and I feel like what I see um or have seen in my career jack is we're always so eager to make the ask right we're so eager to get the money in and we forget the finessing that goes into the relationship and I've also heard from organizations where board members or certain leadership don't really value the relationship oh and that just you know it really hits home because I've seen so many misses because of that and so really you know coming to this to say okay you know we know exactly what's driving this person to our cause and to know the difference is it shelter is it food yep yep and you know I think I don't know of a successful relationship fundraising strategy that isn't built on relationships and certainly our model is really built on relationships building those relationships you know when we're going back to need discovery we're asking those open-ended questions you know what what motivates you to make a filling for out the gift if they say I'm motivated because I want to feed hungry children before they go to school bingo you got it right there so it's that all that relationship and you know and I you know I love objections because they tell us and uncover for us concerns that that prospect or donor has and we can answer those concerns I'll tell you something else if you don't answer an objection or if you don't give them that objection is going to constantly come up it's going to keep coming up it's never going to go away that's why we have this whole chapter in our book that we use at concelling about handling objections so let's let's kind of move into that because you you advise us to anticipate and forestall objections so that we really shouldn't be surprised by what what's happening in the conversation explain that to us jack so anticipating you know when you're having that conversation when you're doing that need discovery and you're getting to know that prospect and that donor they're going to talk about some things that may come up when you make the ask as an objection they're going to talk about some things that bug them maybe about your nonprofit or about the community or whatever it is by anticipating those potential objections you can prevent future convert confrontations while showing an objectivity and honesty here's a secret taking the time to anticipate objections and preparing your responses will help you feel more confident in your interactions with donors so anticipating possible objections and not only do you do this with individual donors but you may do it with your corporate donors or your foundation donors talking to your peers what kind of objections do you hear from this major gift donor especially if you share that individual or a corporation what are some of their concerns and then coming up writing down those answers to forestall those when they come out so during your presentation if I find out that Jared has an objection to an advocacy program we have around homelessness someone I I've learned this during that need discovery I might say to her during that presentation I might say now part of our advocacy work is to do this this and this so I have and I found out what her potential objection might be and I have forestalled it by addressing it in the presentation now she may still present that but I have already talked about an issue that she will bring up and I love the the objection or you know the anticipation of the objection let me talk to my partner you know let me talk to my family and really knowing who are the decision makers you know I I love the Madden test which that is a big piece of fundraising academy and you can you our viewers and listeners can go back and see what that is but really finding out you know who are those decision makers and do the partners need to be there do the family members need to be there because we're seeing a lot of multi-generational giving now and and I certainly been there where it's like you know four five different generations of family members are the ones actually making the presentation are making the decision and during your need discovery if you ask that question Julia how do you make decisions around making a philanthropic gift and she says well I I talked to my husband I talked to my children we sit down together then all of a sudden I know who has to be in the room when I am asking for a gift right that family unit right well I think it honors the process of that donor investor too and you said something really interesting from the get go and I've heard you say this before Jack and that is we need to do a better job of listening and understanding what the the ecosystem of that donor investor is so that we can we can get there and move through the process to what it is they want to see and they want to best end you know another thing about objections if you sat down and I think if a donor every donor has some questions like tell me more about your work in feeding children before school tell me more about how you are housing families all of those things and if you answer those questions during that need discovery during that relationship building and you you they understand completely what is going on with your program then you're going to first stall objections I always say if I sit down with a donor and they have no objections I wonder if they really know the programs that I'm pitching to them right right are they very informed are they you know as informed as we could possibly have done that for them absolutely it also seems to that I like the idea and maybe this is just my own concept of having asked for a lot of money throughout my life in my community when somebody asks questions they've been thinking about it as opposed to I can afford it or I can't simple as that but when when somebody has a question I feel like they're going to be a longer-term donor they're going to be more of a sustainable relationship and is that just me or do you think that that could be oh no I love questions I love concerns I love when donors express concerns I love asking them their opinion what do you think if they say you know I don't really like the advocacy work that your organization is doing with politicians okay I might say to them how do you think we should approach that and get their advice and they may say well maybe you know you should do it this way I don't like the strident board member in front of city council so so listening to them getting their advice what they're doing is they're becoming owners of that process they're becoming owners and involved in that process of advocacy I love sharing and asking for advice during need discovery what do you think about our case for support what do you think about our approach to ending poverty in the community what do you think about our our women's health program at our hospital or the emergency room services we provide whatever the organization is it's really important even in the arts we might say in a ballet what do you think about our after ballet meet the choreographer right yeah was that effective did you enjoy it was it fun Jack I'm curious do you ever coach or have you yourself ever you know ask point blank to the to the donor do you have any concerns that would prevent you from making a donation like that's ask point blank yeah that's a good that is a great question and they will tell you they will tell you absolutely I don't like this or I don't like that now the opposite question is that what are the reasons what that would bring you to say yes to a gift in a philanthropic organization I actually like that approach more they may say something you know Jared when I get all the information when I look at the financials and when I look at the impact of what donations do for that organization it is really important for me to know that stuff which tells you if they're not getting that information guess what's happening that will be a concern that's right yeah absolutely well hey our time is running short and I want to make sure that we give due diligence to you know the the final point on today's topic when we talk about handling abject objections and you have here answer the objection immediately tell us about this so if you know if if by responding immediately to an objection you remove it from the prospects mind okay and they can concentrate on the rest of the story that you are telling them in your presentation the big picture so to speak this technique of answering the objection immediately shows that you are sincere and that you're listening to them and that's such a key really successful fundraisers know how to listen answering immediately prevents the prospect from thinking you don't know the answer yeah so I really like answering immediately now there are going to be sometimes when you don't have an answer and you may have to postpone the answer the donor's concern or whatever it is you might need more time to find out the answer and believe me in my career I've gotten questions that were way off in outer space and I had no way to answer them okay this technique you know when you postpone gives you time to think but it it shouldn't stop you from continuing to talk about the benefits of your cause and what you're doing and I'll give you an example of this from my own career here I was in northern California working in an organization that had an immigration program and someone called me up and said what is your organization doing at the border in Texas for those immigrant children who are abandoned at the border in Texas I have no answer to that what I said is I am going to find out what our sister organizations are doing down there in Texas to help those I think it was 40 you probably remember from those 40 children were left at the border and I promise you I will get back but let so and then I continued with the benefits of our immigration program let me tell you about what we are doing with immigrants and I did I called up an organization in Texas and I said what's going on with these 40 children what can you do called the donor back and me and I said here's what our sister organization is doing at the border in Texas if you want to make a gift to them here's how you do that so I just think it's really important the other thing is you know answering immediately don't fake it don't say hey uh well we're doing this we're sending this or we're don't make it up yeah don't get nervous to the point where you think I gotta say something here I've seen that happen at the end of the meeting I said I didn't know that was happening and they said it's not but I didn't know what else to do and I thought oh my gosh they get so nervous because they think oh lord what's going to happen they're not going to make a gift I have to say something no you don't you know it's better better than postpone it then make something up because then you're going to be they're going to say this guy is not authentic this guy is not sincere great yeah well I think Jackie gives you an opportunity a natural opportunity to re-engage because you can say hey I told you we were gonna follow up and here's what I found out can I share this information with you it just seems like it's actually an opportunity to automatically you know set up another engagement you know what Julia that's a great answer I always say when I come on the non-profit show you two teach me so much stuff that I've forgotten in fun that is such a good point how what a powerful point I am curious do you say like you know let me get back to you within the week within the next two weeks like is there a certain sweet spot on time yeah I usually like you know I'm a 48 hour guy okay everything happens within 48 I'm gonna lose two pounds in 48 hours I'm going to get back to you in 48 hours I'm going to grow ahead of hair in 48 hours some things and it's just it just says that you care about their concern when you say that when you when you postpone that answer when you answer immediately that's great and then you can move on but sometimes you're not going to have the answer guys you just not so you don't fake it go for it okay now I have one more question for you before we leave and this is kind of like a off track in some ways but if you think back throughout your illustrious career how often is this occurring I mean like 10% of the the the meetings that you take where you're to that point where then ask or 5% 50% can you kind of paint a picture for what yeah to expect yeah so here's here's I think it's successful asks 90% of the donors have objections okay that's what I think and and I'll tell you why because it's a journey to make a successful ask and they're engaged in this journey and they if they're thoughtful donors and not checkwriters especially transformational gifts they're gonna gonna talk about objections so I'm gonna say if they don't have objections there would be no need for us yeah right true yeah so we are there to answer their objections to help them in that journey to get to yes now would you say jack that's like a major gift level and above anybody any you know any single body I mean you know I used to get small gifts and they would ask questions they would have objections and the truth of the matter is every single donor deserves an answer to their objection no matter what it is and believe me I you know I mean in your career guys you've heard some things that you're like wow I didn't anticipate that objection oh yeah yeah it's interesting and you have to I think you have to like as my mother would say gird your loins to not get yeah taken off track that you got to be like okay that's amazing I don't know but I'll come back and not just like melt down because then you've lost that opportunity yeah I had a donor say to me once you know I he agreed to a meeting with me it was a big trip $40,000 gift and during the course his very first thing out of his mouth is why did you ask for this meeting and I'm like wow I thought it was obvious I want a gift you know but I had to back up and say you know I want to explain to you more about what we're doing in the organization and I didn't anticipate that question I'm sure you guys have had this yeah well this has been so insightful and just the tip of the iceberg as we move into part two tomorrow so Jack thank you for joining both Julia and myself today for this part one of handling donor objections it's been a lot of fun to do these drill downs with fundraising academy so thank you Jack and again those of you watching and listening Jack Alotto CFRE and trainer at fundraising academy with national university Jack will be back tomorrow to talk about part two which is also handling donor objections and as you heard him say 90% or more than 90% of most donations will have an objection for you as the fundraiser or the board member to handle at some point in your career so thank you for sharing this so I don't know transparently and and fun you definitely bring the fun to the conversation so I really appreciate that thank you yeah we also want to say thank you to our presenting sponsors that allow us these conversations so thank you to our friends over at Bloomerang American non-profit academy your part-time controller that's celebrating 30 years non-profit thought leader fundraising academy at national university again yes where jack Alotto joins us from also to staffing boutique non-profit nerd as well as non-profit tech talk these companies many have been with us from the very beginning we are so grateful to have their investment in the sector at large so thank you thank you thank you please do check them out because they're here for you and your mission absolutely and as we like to remind everyone our viewers our listeners our guests our co-hosts to stay well so you can do well we'll see you back here tomorrow everyone