 I guess we should start recording is that all right with you because for all the participants for the people who are on these programs are recorded and then they're shown later on CCTV which is channel 17 and I'll send you out notice of when that happens okay is that all right hi Joanne hi Tim hi so are we supposed to say hello hello yeah right yeah okay so I guess Megan will start recording if that's okay um my name is Sandy Barrett and welcome to our Vicky presentation tonight in the Spanish-American War and the decision I think on the part of the United States to extend its destiny to the Pacific and to all of Latin America the Spanish-American War was in 1898 and continued really it probably until 1902 or 1903 when there was an agreement made to actually get Guantanamo and to have an American base in Cuba so I welcome everybody's participation and if and conversation this is mainly I hope evening that we can converse about that very important manifest destiny I call manifest destiny to manifest destiny first on the part of the United States or at least the Anglo fun areas of the United States was to extend those 13 English-speaking colonies to the coast to the west coast and remember that was more or less successful by 18 certainly by 1898 although there were states I think that came into the United States after that point mainly Alaska and also Hawaii but in 1898 I wanted just to mention that the United States was still competing with world powers for ascendancy I think in the Pacific and also in China and also in all of Latin America there were two remaining colonies in Latin America and the Caribbean that were owned by Spain at the time those two colonies were Cuba and Puerto Rico the United States in this war took advantage of the Cuban struggle for independence in Cuba against Spain and the United States took advantage of that and interceded supposedly on behalf of the Cuban independistas but at the end of that war which was concluded fairly quickly the United States retained a hold over Cuba and Puerto Rico both the results of that the consequences of that for both of those former while also colonies were different however Cuba more or less became an independent nation at that time in the at the end of the Spanish American War and threw off the Spanish colonial empire however they were left by being rather crippled by the then powerful United States in a series of amendments a series of laws the United States through the Platt Amendment kept control over the foreign policy of Cuba so that Cuba could not be an independent actor in on the world stage in any way they had to remain Cuba had to remain more or less loyal to the to the American Empire secondly in Puerto Rico and I hope that Jorge addresses himself more to this Arachioan and Tim also both come from Puerto Rico or grew up there Puerto Rico we was more or less incorporated into the United States and made what was called a Commonwealth of the United States which I believe left Puerto Rico in a less independent state certainly then Cuba and became part of the United States but not clearly a state not clearly a colony either Puerto Ricans are left in a sort of a limbo position of not either being an independent country or not fully incorporated as a state into the United States at the same time if you regard the Spanish-American war as a context contest for Spain with Spain for pot to basically replace the Spanish Empire in the world more or less the United States also sought to control the Pacific at that time and began a slow march I believe aimed at China aimed at having influence in China which is the same time that the other superpowers of the world were also competing for China for the markets of China the superpowers at that time being England France Germany and the rising Japan as well so the United States and to basically replace the Spanish Empire in Latin America but also the Pacific began to try a march toward being hegemonic in the Pacific that included Hawaii that included that's when Hawaii was conquered by the United States and on to the Philippines when the United States essentially got the Spanish Empire out of the Philippines and the United States became the powerful in the Philippines with us tonight to speak more in about this March to Empire with the consequences of that our Jorge Rodriguez or Puerto Rico Armando from Cuba and Gran Cristial who'll talk a little bit about Hawaii as well people don't I think realize anything much about the conquest of Hawaii I don't think Americans really know either about Puerto Rico or Cuba but I don't I think that the whole situation in Hawaii was rather unknown to most Americans Hawaii now as a state it became a state I think in 1959 is that 58 Puerto Rico is not a state and Cuba is an independent country but it's paid a very heavy price 59 59 Hawaii came in 59 the Cuba has paid a very heavy price because of 1959 the Cubans had a socialist revolution in Cuba and they have since that time paid the heavy price of the United States through an embargo against Cuba and through an attempt to I think change the regime in Cuba to have a regime in Cuba that's more friendly to the United States but anyway maybe we'll start with maybe Puerto Rico be is that okay with everybody and maybe Jorge can talk a little bit about the situation in Puerto Rico okay go ahead I'm gonna put a presentation up but I don't know that you're gonna see it but it's just gonna put it for me can you see me yes we can see you okay perfect perfect I'm so I'm seeing a presentation that I prepared but you're not seeing it but it's okay I'll just give you in a nutshell what I see the Spanish-American war especially in the Caribbean is a consolidation of US expansion you know we started like Sandy says to the West and then continued in the Caribbean and of course the countries that were targeted were Cuba and Puerto Rico I'm gonna talk more about Puerto Rico but I'll just say a few things because this was part of a grand plan between 1898 and 1924 there were nine country eight countries that were intervened by the US okay and most of them multiple times during between the 1920s and and they were Panama, Nicaragua, Mexico during the second you know in a revolution Haiti the American republics and Honduras and of course Cuba and Puerto Rico I'll say a little bit about Puerto Rico it's about 3,500 square feet square miles I think it's about 15 times smaller than Cuba so it's really was an unimportant economic colony for Spain in those years Cuba was the king but I have to remind you that in the 500 years of history both Cuba and Puerto Rico were completely unimportant because the money was in the gold and the silver in Mexico and Peru and Bolivia so you know so it was later than when actually the Spaniards took the advantage of the Haitian Revolution and the group the Spaniards you know learning that the sugar production was super you know important and they started their empire in the 1800s and and that's where where the sugar boom came for Cuba which probably meant about half 50% of the Spain's economy which is huge so but Puerto Rico as compared to that was much smaller much less important and there's a few things that are in important about Puerto Rico and especially as different from Cuba is that Puerto Rico really had a multi crop you know they weren't heavy into sugarcane because it wasn't big enough and it wasn't important enough so we you know in Puerto Rico there was more crops and that was tobacco and coffee okay and so that is a difference so when you know I'll just say a few things just before before the occupation in 1868 was kind of like a series of rising in lattice about 600 people got involved and then just half a year before the occupation the 1897 Carta Autonomica gave Puerto Rico a legendary you know kind of like autonomy really if you look at it it wasn't complete autonomy but the Puerto Ricans had a lot more rights under these new conditions granted a lot of liberties that that they didn't that we didn't have in the previous 400 years and just that lasted about three months and then July the U.S. occupation started July 13th it lasted a month okay in December 10 there was a treaty of Paris that granted Puerto Rico you know to the U.S. I just say a few details it was general then so mines with 18,000 troops that invaded the southwest coast of Puerto Rico in Guanica but it quickly spread all the way through on the way to San Juan and again in one month they took over the island so a few things immediately there was a law that was called the foracal law basically after the about six or seven months of military occupation you know and then there was the imposition of a civilian government with an appointed governor by the by the president of the U.S. Supreme Court appointed by the president you know I said and there were 35 elected representatives in quotes I mean you know it was kind of like the first House of Representatives but all federal laws apply okay another blow that's not talked too much that was more important economically was the Hollander law the Hollander law in 1901 imposed a 1% tax on all land so imagine all the landowners in Puerto Rico now had to pay 1% but not only that they devalued the Puerto Rican peso which was a Spanish peso 40% so everybody who had you know $100 they now they had $60 instead of a hundred and so what that made is what happened is that was a heavy expropriation expropriation of land basically the U.S. wanted to reestablish a sugar mono crop economy capitalist plant plantations mega plantations so they had a few landowners that were able to grab land from small landowners and that immediately created a large labor force all these former you know small farm owners down with or they were labor laborers they could be laborers for these large plantations okay and that lasted for about 30 years now in between well of course they changed to mono crop now sugar plantations versus multi crops right and the small farmers becomes workers in 1917 the Jones Act grant us U.S. U.S. Citizenship to Puerto Rico's but that didn't come you know cheap you know we also have to sign an agreement that we had to use the U.S. Marine Naval Merchant Marines so we are you know Puerto Rico's were not a liberty to choose you know who was gonna press transport the goods and in an island well you need to transport everything that is key you know that's like the live lot and well in the 1930s nationalist movement rose and they you know they've been you know significant but very very little but they were very hard hit by the U.S. government and the FBI of course we all remember is the attacks on the Blair House and Congress by Puerto Ricans that was part of all that movement and in 1948 for the first time you know we could elect a government a governor okay and then that that followed what 1952 the new Constitution which like Sandy says is the common most of Puerto Rico in Puerto Rico in Puerto Rican words it's called the free associated state the estado libre asociado but he's still you know we still have federal courts you know we still have some army bases although most of them are gone and you know of course the U.S. post office you know we are under federal authority politically today we can't vote for a president unless I move to this country like I did and you can do it easily you just move but you can't live in Puerto Rico reside there and both for the president oddly enough you can't vote for the candidate so you you on the primary the primary so you know all the presidents they love Puerto Rico's they want they want to get nominated they go there and get the few delegates that we got we have a representative on the Congress and I don't know if you you you know I can't go on but you know I think time is of the essence and I don't know if you wanted me to expand to what's the situation now now I think maybe we could maybe leave that for questions or just maybe I thought that would be better because the other part is it's more complicated has all the things okay Armando we lose him no I'm muting but you can have some I want I am interested in hearing about about the current situation can you hear me you can hear me no order sure I can hear you yeah alright so my I'm not going to get into a lot of things other than starting with the U.S. basically the impact of the war on Cuba was early on where Cuba became a protectorate of the U.S. which meant basically Cuba was under the control of the U.S. for four years from 1898 to 1902 and in that time obviously the Cuban the Cuban was not necessarily in control of anything the U.S. was there and actually that's where some of the business started getting their hands in there but the most important part of that was that they then became part of writing the Cuban constitution and particularly in the Cuban constitution when you look about impact the biggest impact was the requirement that the Platte amendment be in in annexed to the Constitution and basically the Platte amendment gave the U.S. complete authority over any treaty or deals that the U.S. was making with with other countries U.S. could then could turn it down the U.S. can intervene in Cuba at any time they felt that their democracy if you will was at risk elections and they did on two separate occasions in 1916 1928 the U.S. became involved in the outcomes of Cuban elections to basically overturn them for the candidate that they wanted another big part of this was the military military is able to stay which had a huge impact on Cuba and of course with the military staying they needed a location so part of it was that the Cuba would would lease them land for a military base and that land ended up being Guantanamo and that basically Cuba was only Cuba the island but not being that is that it be no which is now the is that I who and do I love youth was not considered part of Cuba Cuba when it was independent only the island and then eventually because there were more Americans actually living in is that it be no then were then Cubans so in the Cubans had a lot of people move there and then they think they were able to say oh this is really part of Cuba but nevertheless it was that type of a thing that the U.S. had power over as well as Cuba U.S. being able to intervene in any issue that they felt they wanted to and back to the original pieces they wanted because of the Panama Canal was being was built they wanted Puerto Rico and Cuba on the on the Caribbean Atlantic side and they wanted the Philippines Hawaii on the Pacific as a protectorate for that and that's where Cuba came well you know obviously Cuba came in and you know during that time Cuba got the voting of everybody in Cuba except only for males women or blacks were not allowed to vote the economy became very dependent on sugar it truly became a mono production and were one spike prices of depression down so it was an up and down economy with many of the Cuban owners of those central is going bankrupt and then being bought out by U.S. companies so the economy then became very much dependent on U.S. on U.S. influence and Cuban money that was involved with Hurricane poverty was was was you know everywhere there was over half a million people in a small population that were unemployed but one of the main things that the U.S. wanted out of Cuba is they didn't want to annex Cuba because annexation then meant you had to deal with like Puerto Rico you had to deal with all these issues were but if you made them independent and just an extension of the U.S. system you can have the best of both worlds without having to deal with all the issues and that's ultimately what they got all the way through the revolution in the 50s which again was part of which was started as a result of this student group started to see the inequalities they started to see the influence of the U.S. on Cuba the Plot amendment and that led to the communist the Cuban Communist Party youth organizations at the University of Havana that eventually led to to but working with Batista you could believe about these to work with the students but then eventually became a dictator and the rest is history as Cuba became an independent but the impact of the of the initial impact of the Spanish-American war was huge on Cuba and not necessarily in a good way and I mentioned one thing before we turn to Hawaii and that is that neither one of you mentioned that both Cuba and Puerto Rico were populated by slaves by black slaves and that Havana in particular was a huge market actually where slaves are transported to Havana some came to North America and some didn't but it was slavery really built the wealth the wealth of Cuba and Puerto Rico but the wealth was that was before that was before the U.S. that was yeah not post but Cuba was as you're right saying the every I mean just about every slave that came into the Americas passed through Cuba. Cuba controlled 50% of the slave tribal the whole Atlantic state. I don't think people really in the United States understand the whole connection with Africa in the Caribbean that they don't I don't think Americans even think of Cuba as a black country or as a people of color country made mainly made up of people of color because they don't they see people like Armando in this country and they think that's the Cubans are basically white but they are the majority Cubans immediately even now it's still not over 50% black in Cuba but there as far as I can tell there are a lot of people of color. Oh yeah there's a lot of people there anyway that was very profitable also for the new world of course was a slave trade okay but Grant will maybe say a few words about Hawaii. Okay so I just come at this because at Burlington College I taught a course on cultural encounter and we did a week on Hawaii and that's why I learned a lot of this history of Hawaii which I think maybe people don't know too much just a word first of all about the location which is maybe we all know but it's basically the latitude of Mexico west into the Pacific and sort of a third of the way across the Pacific between the Americas and what the Philippines and Asia and geology geography turns out to be a very important factor for what happened to Hawaii. It's a very interesting story because in Hawaii there are profound changes going on exactly at the same time as the encounter with your the Americans and the Europeans. Within Hawaii in the 18th century this all started there was a reorganization going on there had been wars and wars and wars going on between groups in the islands finally there was a an overall conservative monarchy installed over all the islands except Kauai and for the first time it was united a unified government a unified a conservative monarchy at that time exactly Captain James Cook you probably heard of who was an explorer came to Hawaii and from a European point of view kind of discovered it of course it was always there but the Europeans weren't much familiar with it at all this is 1778 and 1779 that he made two visits to Hawaii and published an account of his travel of travels and an account of what he found in Hawaii and this was widely read and widely known and this sort of started this whole European and American influx into into the islands. As part of this consolidation of the islands into a monarchy probably enough from my point of view the the what had been the religion of the Hawaiian Islands the religions plural in the Hawaiian Islands and all of their symbolism and all that was suppressed and eliminated basically so Hawaii was sitting there with no religious factor to their society and this created a religious void which was important because into this religious void rushed knowing with missionaries very largely congregation lists now known as the United Church of Christ and they first they of course wanted to convert all these people who suddenly didn't particularly have their own religion anymore into Christianity and said about also becoming active in social and political spheres of the of island life and did the one side that they did was they created a written a written form of Hawaiian language which I never had been one of before it was taught widely by them and it's taught by mid 19th century about a hundred percent of native Hawaiians were literate in 1848 in mid-century again the mahali was introduced and the mahali was the change of drag drastic changes there's a history of drastic changes for Hawaii for about a century a drastic change in land use so we go from collective ownership of land to private ownership of land meaning of course any individual can own the land can do the issue or wants or consolidated this of course was favored by the the growing class of plantation owners and farmers and here and sort of like Cuba Hawaii became hugely dependent on sugar and of course also pineapple the two things we all know of is that agricultural products of Hawaii another factor we don't hear that we hear less about a lot are the whalers who discovered that if they went overwintered in Hawaii they avoided their whole return trip under South America back up to knowing on the back again the next year so of course it saved them fantastic amounts of money and effort so that toward the middle of the 1824 to 43 there for maybe 85 whaler ships overwintering in Hawaii by 1846 up to 600 now this is not nothing to have all these ships with their crews spending several months of the winter not out whaling but on land drinking and carousing and creating all kinds of mayhem and it had a big effect on the Hawaiian society some of these ports and cities turned into little hell holes to live in for the Hawaiians and there was a huge amount of upheaval because of them but of course what it really was important for us I think also is that it in addition to the social instability that that led to it also established Hawaii as an important and possible and convenient stopping over point between the Americas and Asia and the and the whaling grounds stopping over and resupplying on Hawaiian that becomes very very important pretty soon the the foreigners in Hawaii had a drastic effect there as they did in the Caribbean as they did in North America especially through disease and the Hawaii of the native Hawaiian population the indigenous population was thought to have been around 400,000 to 800,000 in the 18th century for Captain Cook a century later in 1898 it's down to 40,000 so it's a decrease from hundreds of thousands to 40,000 or only a quarter of the total population anymore of their own islands because of this is that there were foreign workers brought in and we're taking over taking over kind of really and by the 1980s there only are 2,000 speakers of native Hawaiian anymore now a quick run through the US takeover of of the islands it's a familiar story in a way but it's a story also of striking while the the Hawaiians themselves are at their weakest point their population has been decimated since the 18th century the forms of government have been radically changed a lot of social forms have changed the religious forms have changed in the end of the 19th century in 1887 is the bayonet constitution the that monarchy established in the 18th century continues it's came out well be it's King David Calacona first of all who signed the new signs a new constitution he doesn't willingly sign it he sounds it signs it literally under gunpoint and of course the forces who want this are the planters in the agricultural class then the monarchy changes because he died and Queen Lillio Kalani is Queen and the planters and businessmen set up a provision a revolt against her and set up a provisional government which changes its name into the Republic of Hawaii this is 1894 now the next year the Queen is imprisoned in her own palace in the Yolani Palace in Honolulu next year the Hawaiian language is banned as a language of instruction and in 98 the big year that we're all talking about here Hawaii is annexed by proclamation of the United States Congress and she the Queen protested vigorously about this in prison in her palace she couldn't really do it in an armed way but she wrote to the Congress or the President to everybody protesting hugely and you can get this is in the UVM library other places you can get this these are documents and read them which I have read some of so under protest Hawaii is taken over by the United States they simply declare your ours now 1900 Hawaii becomes a territory 1959 it's admitted as the 40 50th state upon a vote in Hawaii but the voters who should become a state or not a state nothing about independence or anything else of course and in 1993 President Bill Clinton signs the apology bill which is a proclamation by the US Congress apologizing to the Hawaiian people for what the United States did to them meaning taking over their government their property and with no input from the Hawaiians except resistance and so the the and this proclamation is interesting because it enumerates explicitly what the United States did how they promulgated a coup d'etat how they took over how they did that recompense the Hawaiians at all and this is a G of we sorry because they're a state by now so in that same year of 1898 so this of course brings up numerous questions of issues of sovereignty of indigenous rights within Hawaii and there's a lot of movement about that especially since the 1970s there are associations and movements formally organized that don't rotate for real statement of all things Hawaiian and there are now a movement also of which might call total immersion Hawaiian schools where the entire day is taught only in Hawaiian and that's all has a lot to do with some Hawaiian culture and so on and there was a constitutional convention in the 1970s also to redo the Constitution and revalorize a lot this Hawaiian then find my final word is that the annexation happened in 1898 but it was not just it wasn't by fiat by the president or something was the Congress and as a result of our Congress yeah the United States Congress and result of the hot debate between those who are pro expansion and pro annexation and those are anti expansion and anti annexation and these opinions kind of held sway back and forth for a couple of years until finally there's a period when the pro annexation people were in power and it was always annexation going on in the year of 1898 and so it carried and the place was annexed so that's what I would mention a few words about what happened also in the Philippines at that time in 1898 the Spanish-American war the United States also established a presence in the Philippines and sort of began I believe this manifest destiny defined by our leaders at that time becoming an empire rather than staying as a continental republic the Anglophone part of the United States of course the English speaking part of the United States had already spread itself to the coast of California defeating the Spanish and Mexico in the war of 1846 but essentially by this war after we after the the English speaking parts of the continent had succeeded in its first destiny of controlling a continental republic defeating the Native Americans defeating the other empires Spain that held that held grasp of part of North America and the French we can't forget the French as well the United States then had established its grasp on the whole continent of North America essentially with the exception of Canada and then it had also set the borders with Mexico but then in what many historians call manifest destiny to the United States really turned to overseas expansion by taking the last remaining Spanish parts of Latin America Cuba and Puerto Rico and I guess what you said Jorge was there are other places though that were still controlled by Spain in South America correct no no no no what I said is no no everything in South America was liberated in the 20s right by Bolivar yeah Bolivar and San Martín and O'Higgins okay but the only two colonies left right there Cuba and Puerto Rico the many Republican Haiti were problematic and they wouldn't let go many many years before right and the only so one of them was an economic empire which was Cuba the other one was a leftover island that was at the entrance of the upland from the Atlantic it had you know some some strategic importance but not much economics okay so so but but the US occupied or militarily intervene in right because they were establishing a mono crop like Chiquita banana you know in Nicaragua and in Panama because of Panama Canal and so in all these countries there was a boom of you know export agricultural products usually mono crops so they they went in and approved and supported you know big American companies going in and buying large pieces of land so that these agricultural economy started going so that's where all these intervention went you know and in some of them were not even interventions but they were economically influencing the economies can I mention one other very important date in this history and that's 1823 and the Monroe doctrine in 1823 it wasn't clear about what country nation could would be hegemonic in the Americas innate by 1823 if I'm not mistaken however all of South America had thrown off Spain is that true by 1823 and they had established themselves as independent republics in Latin America correct most of the United States at that time issued a rather rash it appeared at the time decision to say to the European powers in 1823 we're not going to let you back here to colonize any of the Americas anymore and if you try we will defend the independence of those republics so it kind of cut both ways it put the United States in the position of being hegemonic in all of the Americas but it also meant that the United States had become so powerful that it could actually tell those independent republics that they couldn't either go on their own way really that the United States was going to decide foreign policy for them as well and I believe that so the Monroe doctrine had it was a very important date it appears to me it's when the United States really announced itself as the most powerful nation in all of the Americas right yes and that was followed up by the Roosevelt corollary which further imposed that they there was not even any relationship with Europeans here right you know as you know Teddy was one of the colonels in the you know the Rough Riders in Puerto Rico right was he in Cuba also Teddy Roosevelt yeah they stormed San Juan Hill which most Americans think is this they assume it's in San Juan Puerto Rico but it's actually a hill in Santiago in Santiago yeah right right yeah there are any other questions or thoughts can I just say one thing is I do believe though that as the war extended US power in the Pacific the United States had designs at that point on China and these were kind of stepping stones to get involved in China as well which continues well not anymore because the Chinese said forget it but anyway Kurt yeah just the interesting little tidbit as you're talking about the Pacific portion of the manifest destiny doctrine with respect to the Philippines after the Spanish-American War was over the United States was engaged in its first real foray into guerrilla warfare as we know as we knew from Vietnam and in the Philippines it was a brutal occupation but the Filipinos because of the number of islands they have they were very difficult to subjugate and they fought back using guerrilla warfare tactics that we saw several decades later in some of the islands in during the Second World War in Japan against the Japanese Army and then 20 30 years later again in Vietnam right where they can I ask you a question Kurt those people those Filipinos who fought back and that struggle what I think they might have been Muslim were they Muslims there was a small portion of them that were Muslim because of their proximity to Indonesia right but but they were mostly Catholic the Spanish had Catholicized most people most people from the Philippines if you look at their names they they sound like you know they sound like Spanish names right I mean they speak their own language is a language called to Golic yeah but but Spanish is pretty widespread in the Philippines and they they worship in a in a in a Catholic style liturgy in in the Philippines and they're and they're very very dedicated Catholics most times most years around Easter you'll hear stories about a lot of people you know again on the extreme but they actually get involved in crucifixions the way Jesus Christ was with the nail and the whole thing to show their their their their you know their loyalty and their love for for Christ and and what he did and what he went through so it's it's a very Catholic you know Catholicized country except for certain areas where apparently in the last 20 years you know Al Qaeda was actually made create a presence in the Philippines and the US military as well as the Filipino military had a couple of a couple of you know small-sized battles in some of these islands to root out Islamic extremism right that's what I kind of thought okay are any other questions or thoughts I have one how does Brazil fit into this whole business that goes on in South America Brazil Brazil has a political history that's completely different yeah Brazil didn't have it didn't have a war of independence Brazil is that because of the Napoleonic Wars the Portuguese control Brazil had to move the they were they were invaded so they had to move the whole kingdom to Brazil so when the wars were over the whole king went back to Portugal and he left his son and then later he sons independence but but Brazil is nevertheless isn't it also correct that all of the South American countries are republics there are no monarchies left but Brazil remained a more right right right 1800s when they independence themselves they actually they actually republic they become a republic right the Caribbean Islands some of them are still connected to monarchs well like Jamaica right it's part of the British you know right there's one monarchy in Ruba is a much more right right and there's a and there's a French to Martin no no no the French are right the French the French are a lot a little yeah one monarchy left though and in the Americas I used to have big fights with my students about this which is what Canada Canada yeah yeah I used to have huge fights because everybody is of course of the opinion that the Canadians are so much more progressive than we are they do have a monarchy any other airheart welcome how are you thanks for the presentations yeah I thought I this topic sounded really interesting I've been meaning to zoom in on one of your conversations I said you really raised the point that I wanted to raise which was you know if you want to look at the roots of manifest destiny I mean they go back to the Louisiana Purchase they go back to the Monroe Doctrine and you know frankly I mean you know our supposed American revolutionaries were you know they were sort of I always think of them as you know to be truly revolutionary you know you have to liberate yourself they were part of you know the basically the British kind of they were not far from the British ruling class and they were just another ruling class and they you know and basically imposed ultimately imposed themselves on on their will and the will of the country the country on the Americas yes and no but the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are very important documents yes our founding fathers are deeply flawed I don't want to downplay that but I don't want to you know I always think about you know to be truly liberated you've got to you know liberate yourself and you know they were slaveholders and you know all of that and a lot of their great ideas came from you know the Aroquois Nation and yeah a lot of their great ideas too came from the Enlightenment ideas that were promulgated in Europe as well so yes you're right but nevertheless read the Declaration of Independence again now just as a follow-up to that point maybe we're going off on a tangent but in addition to the Enlightenment it's also very important if you look at the buildings in Washington DC and really most most government buildings in the United States the founding fathers also relied heavily on the Greek democracy yes and and Greek democracy was consistent you know even though it was the first of its kind there was slavery and they they were able to you know be okay with that and also you know women didn't have a right to participate in Greek democracy in Greek democracy and you know a lot of the founding fathers were of that opinion also we we understand that however again read the Constitution and read the Declaration of Independence that's those documents were aspirational very few other countries have such aspirational documents or aspirations to be a democracy or even a republic most of the most of the countries at that time remember were just more des spots ruled by despots or or monarchs so them I'm just taking a class right now actually in history since 1500 global history since 1500 and when you get to the age of revolutions it's astounding what those revolutions really did accomplish here in the United States followed by France followed by Haiti which was probably the most radical of revolutions was probably Haiti and then the Bolivarian revolutions throughout South America those were truly progressive moments in history at least aspirationally with all the problems the biggest problem for me was the the extermination of Native Americans and also slavery of course but anyway that's my pitch about history that the new world is a revolutionary new world still at least contradicted by by places which have no freedom at all yeah Robin Robin yeah yeah sorry my battery died and I had to read reignite myself yeah well I'm glad you're you're getting to Haiti I wanted to just say that this all became real to me when I was in Haiti and I was interviewing president Aristide in 1991 and he said my goal in my administration in in 14 years is to alpha bring alphabetization to all the people and to have a you know a real examination of the slave trade in 2004 and he was you know working on alliances with Brazil and back with you know Sierra Leone and the and the countries in Africa to really show people what that whole trade was like and help people understand it and of course he was overthrown and then and then he came back again and then right on 2004 he was overthrown the second time so you know the the powers that be the white powers the United States didn't want to give Haiti any chance to celebrate the 200th anniversary of their revolution and to talk about the slave trade at that time so Haiti has been suffering for decades right and continues to to this day by the way we're hoping in this series to have a presentation on Haiti on the revolution in Haiti which was I mean it's so astounding to me that the revolution in Haiti the revolution in France and the Bolivarian revolutions looked to the revolution in the United States as key that they were following the example of the most to them radical parts of the U.S. Revolution and we so seldom think that that revolution was radical in any way but of course at that period of time at least in its aspirations it was a very radical movement but Haiti after that point was totally shunned by the United States is that true Robin yes and penalized for being the first black republic in the world Tim yeah I just wanted to maybe ask Jorge since we have some time if he could comment on the current situation in Puerto Rico yeah because it clearly remains the oldest colony in the world over 500 years of being a colony and has never attained independence and the United States and has imposed on it that financial junta which is now making all the financial decisions taking the power away from the Puerto Rican legislature to oversee its own economy so it's tremendous debt in which it's killing it yeah killing it yeah I don't really see what the exit strategy is for Puerto Rico which has been in a depression for the last decade and more or hey but you know regarding the current events I know that an attempt to renegotiate the debt but the problem is the cash flow situation in Puerto Rico and my understanding is that ever since well Maria and now the pandemic you know there's a person there's some outflux of of population I don't know if you know but the yes yes population is decreasing in the last 10 years and tremendously and who goes is really the professionals that should stay you know if you want to rebuild the country so my understanding is that right now it is and there of course we all know there's a junta or there is a you know a governing body but that's just part of colonialism you know it's like it's like a bank you know if you don't pay the mortgage then the bank tells you well you know we're gonna take control of your over your house so that's that's what's happening it's a Puerto Rico it's it's like the property and and it's owned by the banks of the United States you know or by the investors of the United States so we're treated like a you know like a property and that's that's what it is now you know in terms of you know is that right or not you know I'm not too you know I don't everybody has their own opinion I'm just saying the fact is that we are under the US control and you know if if a big company you know goes to Nicaragua American company and it's it has billions of dollars well and then the Nicaraguan government expropriates it then the US will invade you know it's because you take their money and that is basically what's happening in Puerto Rico in my view you know it's already invaded what Rico has already invaded exactly what exactly there's no there's nothing to invade already but now but now you know investors put money in bonds and and they were badly administered the funds and and the transactions because those they were both badly administered you know and so so now how do you go after it you know you know you can invade but you still own the country so you can force them to pay because you you cannot put a junta like there is one in Puerto Rico it to France because they owe you money you can do that you know you could do it to Puerto Rico because it's a colony so you know that is now you know if you want you know I mean there there's a series of events that happen prior to this you know Puerto Rico in you know as it changed from agriculture to to manufacturing in the in the 40s and 50s operation bootstrap but what you know what happened there to incentivize in that in 1976 there was a 936 tax incentive law that led that led companies not have to repatriate the funds so that was an incentive and there was a lot of manufacturing and that's how the economy of Puerto Rico you know was really good you know up till the 1970 76 and then that law came out you know later in the in the 80s and you know it faced out in 2000 and basically the economy of Puerto Rico which was manufacturing is pretty much dead so you don't have we don't have the multi crop economy that we had prior to occupation then that got replaced by a not monocrop in dog you know sugar you know and that got replaced by a manufacturing with incentives and none of that is there so how do you go from being on 500 years of of colony to re revamp or restart or re you know jump start an economy that has nothing left I mean it has to start from the from scratch and I mentioned another thing as a that happened as a result I think of the Spanish-American war and that is the establishment as someone said of Guantanamo right yeah that was I think in 1902 when the United States demanded and got a military base a naval base in Cuba that remains true to this day that was supposed to be a lease if I recall for a hundred years and then not for a hundred years it's in perpetuity and there there is rent all right but right with the US owes the Cuban government the Cuban government since Castro has never accepted the pain right and it was it was established as a cooling station right and if you read the treaty carefully since it is no longer a cooling station because ships don't operate on coal anymore in a sense the treaty could be abrogated it could be declared void because it is not performing the function on which it was established but I'm sure they'll Castro tried to get us out of there and then United States said make us go and that can't happen without a war I mean there you go but we played a good role it's having one having one having Guantanamo there was good was also good for Fidel he could use that as a symbol of you know so I know all that the problem is is that I can't believe in a way that the United States has foreign bases at all anywhere but especially Cuba that it now is a prison and that has not been given up by the United States how many countries how many countries as the U.S. have basis about 700 800 700 country basis basis basis space well we're gonna have a base on Mars yeah I just want to explain I'm leaving because I'm going to see the premiere of Jetline voices from the f-35 this is a new film made by Juan Peterman and you can just you can starting at seven and you can just type in jetlinefilm.com and you will get the link to go to see this premiere of this film but I noticed Earhart works for Bernie Sanders now is that right I had to take that I'm not here in my official capacity but yes okay so now then you can bring all this up with Senator Sanders I'm sure the F-35 occupation of Puerto Rico the occupation of embargo right I'm his eyes and ears now so from your well you can wish him well but I've got I've got to go to I have a neighborhood planning assembly coming up I really appreciated the presentations thank you Jorge and Armando and Grant and it's too bad I want to mention Robin's left but you know one of the things that's kept Haiti down is the reparations that they paid to France but if I'm not mistaken they didn't end till the early 70s I think they continued to pay to France they had to pay for the slaves that became free they saved those well Joanne and I would like to meet Jorge sometimes when is he gonna be back in this day when they invite me let's see where are you Jorge I'm in Miami Miami oh okay okay I see let me ask you a question did everybody did anybody know that the first you know Haitian government that wasn't a colony was a kingdom oh yeah no you didn't know that black king there was a black king there right after independence after they killed you to send over to her there was the salines yeah there was and then after the saline there was a there was a king there that's mentioned in a in a book called by a Cuban called the kingdom of of this world and that's the first kingdom that was from a African you know born in Haiti in Haiti right after independence I mean Haiti is in terrible shape again always is but it's especially bad right now is that right of course I heard after that there was the earthquake Sandy most recently apparently there's the phenomenon of gangs in yeah hundred gangs literally gangs that that kidnap people right that's I heard that on the news tonight because I mentioned that because last semester this semester we had an interview for Vicki and for our session with Tim Reiser who's the advisor to Senator Leahy and he talked a great deal about Cuba I don't know if you guys join that but I'm good we're gonna ask him because he's been in negotiations also about Haiti and I'm going to we're gonna ask him to come next semester maybe even next month to give us negotiations he's sending negotiations are specifically about a kidnapping Tim back to what Tim was saying in the negotiations the negotiations that Tim is involved with in Haiti is of a Haitian student studying in New Jersey I think was at Rutgers whose family was somebody was was was kidnapped so my point is that the Tim is mentioning kidnapping and that's what Tim was working on the other Tim Reiser was working on when we were on the call with when when will Biden move on Cuba never reverse to reverse all the Trump especially Biden won't he said he was going to but now he's you mean to to authorize travel or yes to open up the way it was you can travel it's just you can't right now Tim there's only one yet they can only fly to Havana though they can't do any remittances yet the embassy the the consulate office is closed in Havana so you have these thousands of Cubans who had appointments or visa applications that are in limbo so I mean that hurts the Cubans in Miami the same Cubans who say that they you know they want to tighten the grip on Cuba you know you know how you can send remittances Armando if you do a recarga for a telephone yes they can now convert it yes I do yes I do that been doing that for a long time I think Western Union that maybe is not back yet but they're they're going to be I think yeah you charge you 150 bucks and they get they sell it over there they can do that yes yes exactly exactly American Friendship Society wants to go back as soon as possible we have a we have a friend there who is the head now at the Mozart Festival did I send you the current the latest message from Michael Dabrowski life it's amazing anyway there is got money what he's got dollars well I well I know that I know but he also is getting to teach a lot which is yeah he teaches the violin right yeah yep okay well I don't know any further questions I thank you Armando and then the heartache thanks thank you guys thanks everyone what did he say was I seeing again Joanne Timping is soon bye bye we had a heartache all right all right bye