 Did you know that there are over 2,200 known religions in the world? We are all born into one belief, religion, or faith which influences how we see the world and everything and everyone in it, including ourselves. Do our beliefs divide and separate us, or do they bring us together in greater harmony? When you look up with awe on a star-filled night, do you ask who or what created all of this? Have you ever had a profound or deeply challenging experience in your life that changed your beliefs at the core of your being? Enlightened Pathways takes us on a journey of discovery to understand just how spiritual transformational experiences impact our lives and the world around us. Join us now as we deeply explore all that nourishes, heals, and inspires us. Welcome to Enlightened Pathways. Welcome to Enlightened Pathways. My name is Robert Cabeca, and I am your host for today's spiritual journey. And our guest today is Mark Andreas. Welcome, Mark. Thanks so much for having me. My pleasure. Thank you for making time to be here today. I'm at Mark in about 2019 through a training course called Core Transformation, where I also became a certified coach in the methodology, and we'll talk more about that later during the interview here. Mark grew up with parents Connie Ray and Steve Andreas, who were some of the original adopters of neurolinguistic programming, or NLP, which has greatly influenced his life and the lives of many other people, mine included, and immense amount of gratitude to them. Mark has been working with his mom, Connie Ray, and aunt, Tamara, further developing NLP and core transformation techniques, making them available to other practitioners, like myself, and ways to continue to transform people's lives at very core levels. Mark has taught and continues to teach numerous workshops online and around the world. He spent several years working as a wilderness therapist for Troubleduse to use that word a little loosely there. He is also the author of Sweet Fruit from the Bitter Tree and Waltzing from Wolverines. Please welcome Mark Andreas. Thanks so much for having me. Very welcome, Mark. And yeah, so you grew up with some pretty famous parents, so to speak, and at least to me anyway. They've had a big impact in my life. Maybe not sure you see it the same way, but they've had influence in my life and the lives of many other people, and it's probably allowed you to do the same thing. But what was it like, the impact that that might have had upon you as you look back on it growing up compared to what you might have experienced in that type of environment as a belief system? Yeah, well, I would say probably not too much the difference between growing up and looking back on it. My dad always said he's a big fish in a small pond is how he put it. So if I was at a particular NLP training, then in that context, there were people who were like, oh, your parents are blah, blah, blah, whatever. But it was a pretty limited thing and we didn't hang out at NLP trainings that much. So it was a pretty normal upbringing. I didn't get my ego inflated too much by fame or fortune or anything like that. So talk about some of the beliefs that you may have recognized early on in your youth that you feel supported you or influenced your abilities, your abilities as a younger man to interact with, you know, the world around you as you were growing up. Ah, interesting question. Yeah, so I don't even think about anything particularly in terms of a belief so much as what comes to mind when you ask that question is just how much, especially with my mom, but both of my parents, just the communication within the family and having a space where we could share about our experience and have that validated and work through things. So, you know, when my brothers and we're getting into it with each other, often my mom, sometimes my dad would be able to communicate with us about what was happening for the most part. Not all the time. Nobody's perfect. But we had a lot of family meetings and got a lot of experience like actually working through things. And I think a lot of people growing up, they don't get that they it's sort of like, well, that's how it played out, whatever, move on or something like that. And we got the space to really communicate about our different needs and find solutions to that. And that definitely informed my later interest in piecing global studies, studying that in college and then work with wilderness therapy and then inner work. It sounds to me like you had a lot of opportunities where you and your parents were able to adapt and communicate in a way where you were able to get better skill sets that further allowed you to communicate and respond and grow and learn. Yeah, definitely. That's an evolutionary process. And actually what you were just saying about like when you said, I know my parents did the best they could, sometimes we wish that was a whole lot better. But but that actually, I think, is the belief system from my parents that has served me the best and been kind of the biggest through line. And that's, of course, a presupposition and LP that everybody, you know, everybody does the best that they can and every behavior, every thought, every feeling is motivated by some is some positive purpose is trying to achieve something positive. So that actually, I think we zeroed in on the belief that it's been most valuable to me. And that's something that I fully believe and in my experience. Yeah, that's fantastic. I'm curious if there was a time in your life as you were growing up when you started to question what you were receiving as learning, as, you know, quote unquote, spiritual trainings and beliefs and knowledge and consciousness where maybe you started to question anything that you were getting from the various sources. So yeah, I think so. I mean, in maybe in smaller ways, I grew up in the in a where there wasn't a whole lot to the question necessarily, because my father was an atheist, but he wasn't so so and my mom grew up with a Mennonite background. And so she grew up singing the hymnals. And, you know, her favorite part of it was the singing part of it and the music. But I grew up, we didn't go to church. It wasn't like we were, you know, indoctrinated as atheists, but we also weren't didn't have like a standard religious practice other than singing Christmas songs at Christmas, which was always nice. So I didn't really have a strong kind of any sort of strong belief system imposed either that I that I felt I needed to push back on or needed to question. Both my parents were pretty so my dad was very much scientific oriented. So he was he had a very much a perspective of curiosity. And let's find out how things work. Let's find out how the world works. And and so that's already a question. Yes. Yeah. And I think that curiosity is the core to all exploration and growth and being able to, well, let me ask, I was going to say, you know, being able to exercise that curiosity, but I know that in some of my own life experiences, when safety becomes an issue, curiosity is not a resource that's readily available. Yeah, I think often that's the case. And so I wonder if you could talk about maybe that for a moment. Yeah. Well, that's something that my dad always said, curiosity is a wonderful resource because you can't really have too much of it. But it's very true that often when people do feel or what did he say that about curiosity or he definitely said that about gratitude. But but curiosity was another resource that he really liked and just saw that it had a lot of value. And you're absolutely right that a lot of people abandon that when they feel scared or threatened. And think that they can't have that, that that would be somehow an inappropriate kind of resource to have. And through a lot of the NLP processes, often with clients, they find that actually they can be even safer with that sense of curiosity. One of the themes running through the the sweet fruit from the Bitter Tree Story that's or the book that I wrote, it's a collection of true stories of conflicts that people found creative outside the box solutions to. And the kind of the the the theme that I saw through all of those stories was some kind of connection that none of those transformations would have been possible without some kind of connection between the person who might have become a victim and a person who might have become some kind of a perpetrator. And so. And I don't think that would have been possible without some sense of curiosity of what's happening with the other person's experience. And did you ever find yourself exploring, maybe out of curiosity, what some of the other religious faiths or beliefs were? And if there were something that may or may not have resonated with you at some point. Um, so I remember, like in preparation for this interview, I was thinking about I have a memory, you know, certainly of talking about like, oh, like as a kid in middle school, like, do you believe in God or like, what is God, you know? And I remember saying, you know, my sense of it at that time and I would say it's the same is maybe I'm just rigid in my thinking. I don't know is the like if I were to say what God is, for me, it would be everything like all the atoms in my being, all the atoms in your being the universe, the energy, the stuff we haven't discovered, the whole thing. Who knows, maybe even something beyond that, but like the whole that would be that would be my definition if I were to to come up with an answer to what is God, which is probably not a a very something that I would be very successful at answering. But if I were to try, that's what that's what I would go for. Well, I don't remember myself personally, you know, because when people ask, you know, what are your like, if you have religious beliefs or what are your personal beliefs? I yeah, I don't really know how to answer that question because I don't consider myself an atheist. Like, as my mom pointed out, that's its own religion. It's it's being, you know, it's it's knowing that this is how things are. But how would you know that? So. But but also I don't like the word agnostic either, because it's not like I sit around questioning all of the time. And I'm really more mostly interested in what I can do in this lifetime. And one of the books my dad wrote has a nice title that I think kind of sums it up, it's called Is There Life Before Death? And so that's that's my focus is what can I do in my short time here? Yeah, that's fantastic. Thank you for that, Mark. Yeah. As you were responding, I was thinking a little bit about. You know, I just know that my own travels growing up that I've always been questioned about my upbringing and the Catholic religion and what have you, why do they leave the Catholic religion and what religion did I go to, etc, etc, right? And what happened? There was a kind of basis for this show to explore a spiritual evolution as it were. You know, the person I was as a kid with growing up with the beliefs that were imposed, you know, as a young kid because we just absorb those beliefs. That's what I believe us human beings do best as we absorb. You know, we have thought about the outside before what we know what we're doing. You know, we spend some time trying to analyze that or sort out, filter it out, find out what works best for us. And I recognize that in having conversations about religion with people that, you know, it can get contentious because this is what I want to explore here. I think is that some people have a conviction about their faith, you know, a strong conviction that is unshakable to them. And I know I was in a place like that in my life as well. And how would we go about or what would you? Well, I'm not sure how to ask this, but what kind of conversation would you have or maybe you have had conversation with folks who have had that strong conviction? How do you honor that and talk to it and are able to represent your own belief and choices as well? Oh, I would say I just don't bother with it. Oh, great. OK. I like it. So I don't mostly I don't really care if other people think the same way as me in terms of a spiritual or religious belief system. And as far as client work and coaching work, I've certainly worked with lots of people who have very different beliefs than me. And it's just outside of the realm of what I even do or what people come to me for. So so it's really kind of just another realm that it doesn't matter really what some of these beliefs are. Unless unless it's getting in the way of what they want, in which case, then there's no conflict because I'm just there as a guide to help them find congruence within their cell and then themselves of a belief. And way of being that's going to serve their all of their outcomes. So that makes it really easy because I don't have any agenda of of needing to convert anyone to any anything particular. And of course, as you know, the core transformation work, which which you're deeply involved in and any other NLP tools, these are processes by which we can, if used well, we can and it's hard to use core transformation badly. That's one of the things I love about it. It's it's very user friendly that it can really it's a it's a it's a it's a neutral. It's it's belief system free and it's a process to uncover and find more harmony and peace within your each person. And how do you recognize personally if there's something that comes up for you that may be preventing you from going beyond where you presently are? So put that again to me. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Sorry about that. So as you continue to evolve and express your beliefs and exercise your beliefs and how do you go about recognizing something that might come up for you that might be preventing you from getting to the next stage of belief or where it is that you want to go in life. Oh, well, I guess first off, I think I'm somebody who's fortunate enough to be basically where I want to be. I love that. So in terms of obviously, that doesn't mean that I'm like evolution is a really important value of mine. So and I feel like I'm lucky enough to be in a family and in a place in history and society where it's very supportive of that of me doing that. And there's not not too big of consequences. You know, some people in different times in history were, you know, it was it was not a very, very OK thing to just express themselves the way they want to. And so I feel pretty fortunate, very fortunate to be in an environment where I think it's it's pretty easy to just be who I am and evolve how I want to. And yeah, and no one's going to persecute me for it. So right. Very grateful for that. Yeah. OK. You know, I guess what I would say in a more practical level of of, you know, these like core transformation is a tool that I use when when I feel stuck emotionally or like something just, you know, I didn't behave the way I wanted to. And I'd like to evolve that kind of a thing. Then, you know, core transformation is my go to right now. And how would you present it to other folks? Who might be recognizing something that they're stuck with that they're not able to get past or having difficulty getting past? What might you recommend to help them get through that? Yeah. Well, first thing, I mean, the really easy thing is to get the book, which I have here. You could do that very easily. And some people have gotten really impressive transformation just reading the book and guiding themselves through this process. And there's resources, video resources, sources online as well, some intro videos for myself, Tamara, my mom, Connie Ray on YouTube or on our website. So there's it's very accessible. And there's there's various levels of other training and involvement. Of course, you can get from us and. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's the first thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And thank you for that. And that's important because I know for myself, I recognize there were certain times in my life when I just felt absolutely positively stuck and nothing was working. And I was trying everything. And, you know, so at the point of like almost giving up on occasions, you know, so looking for that little piecemeal of information that was going to give me enough of whatever it was I needed to continue going forward. And I think that well, maybe you can talk to this a little bit, too. It's like that curiosity, that open mindedness, you know, how do we really hold on to that and not let go of that curiosity and open mindedness to allow us to keep moving forward, no matter what? Well, that's the wonderful thing about the court transformation process. And for those listening and viewing in a nutshell, it's a process whereby our limitations become doorways to these profound states of being called core states that then transform that limitation. So so it just is a very easy way to go about transforming in a really enjoyable way because anytime I have some feeling, frustration, anxiety, fear, whatever it might be, or a critical thought or a habit or behavior that it's not serving me, that itself with this process becomes the doorway to discovering that positive deeper purposes and ultimately to this core state experience that a lot of people describe in terms of spiritual experiences that then can transform that limitation. And so it's a very easy way to work and it can include all of those things that you're talking about when we feel stuck, when we feel like we want to give up or like it's not worth it. There's a very easy way of including all of those parts of our experience in the process itself. And that's often where people get get stuck and unable to move forward is when something like that happens in their experience and they don't have a way of including that also. And so sometimes I describe it as it's a process. It's a process for change where no willpower is required. You don't have to make anything happen. It's easy. Yeah. Yeah, and thank you for that. Yeah, that was really wonderful. Thank you. I was thinking about your book, Waltzing with Wolverines and how that book came about. And based on what you just said, can you relate it to your experience with the youth that you worked with? So with the and I actually worked not as an official therapist, but as a triple leader. So so my job was to be with them 24 seven to run the group processing to help them one on one and to keep them from running away. Hopefully we didn't always succeed. It was definitely like a crash course and all sorts of different possible human behavior and experience. And so I didn't really have an opportunity to use core transformation as a process, but the underlying core of the process in terms of just being aware that every behavior that was experiencing when I'm cussed out by somebody when somebody threatens to stab me with their tent stake or whatever it might be, which these things happened. But there was some positive. There was something positive wanted in whatever those different expressions might be, and that was a really useful and valuable, like foundational perspective to have and being effective in that environment. Yeah. And, you know, often I think about in terms of like in in college, I said, peace and global studies kind of at a societal level of how do we how do we get along, basically? Then the wilderness therapy was that in a group level. And then now with the one on one coaching and core transformation, and it's really the same thing. It's just within ourselves. How can I how can I get along with myself well internally and, you know, the whole thing about being the change you want to see. So I see it as kind of all the same thing, just that different levels of social group or societal, social and personal. Yeah, we just have a couple of minutes left. Unfortunately, I love where this conversation has taken us. So I guess the thing you touched on a little bit earlier that I'd like to ask if there's one particular thing they'd really like the audience to know that maybe they can utilize to help them move forward through any challenge or struggle that they've got going on. Yeah, I think I mean, I think that the number one thing is to to check out this process core transformation, because it's a really user friendly process. You can guide yourself through it. If that's not working for you, you can get a guide. You can do a training. There's just so many resources, and it's just a very practical way of transforming and evolving in those moments where you go, I just don't think I can. Yeah. And thank you for that again, because I know how I came across core transformation was going through another NLP certification a few years ago. And your mom, Connie Ray, came on to do a talk with us. And she did like a one hour talk with us, and it was great. And I was like, what is this magic? What is this magic? Because up until that moment in time, a couple years ago, I experienced NLP as being, you know, just a little bit manipulative, you know, at some level where core transformation, none of that exists. There's no manipulation. We're not trying to get someone to a place where we think they should be. There's no coercion. It's just connecting and just letting the core state evolve and expressing itself. One of my colleagues described it as non-violence at the internal level. I love that non-violence at the internal level. That's fantastic. So unfortunately, we are out of time, but thank you, Mark, for spending time with us today and the conversation. And letting us get to know you a little bit better. I really appreciate your time today. Yeah, you're so welcome. And I think I didn't mention our website where you can find out all about these resources is AndreasNLP.com. So you can find out more there. And just a few closing remarks and a shout out to today's executive producer and sponsor Bridge to Heaven Healing and Leap in Lizards, which is the premier source for healing crystals and readings with four locations, including 449 Forest Avenue, Portland, Maine. You can visit www.LeapinLizards.biz for more information. Also, a big thanks to our co-executive producer, Dr. Anna Cabeca, the creator of Mighty Maka Plus. Visit Dr.AnnaCabeca.com for more information. Also, if you would like to get more information about this show to reach out to us or to sponsor us, please visit www.deepbeing.org. And a quick shout out to the crew, Director Packard and Carton, as well as to the Portland Media Center and their team. Thank you for watching Enlightened Pathways and spending your valuable time with us today. Until next time, play, have fun, be happy.