 Hey everybody, this is Christian Muckley doing another MVP buzz chat and I'm talking today with Eric. Hey, Eric. Hey, Christian. It's great to be here. Well, for folks that don't know you, who are you, where are you, and what do you do? Those are some good questions. So I'm Eric Woodruff. I am in upstate New York, which can mean a lot of things depending on where you are in New York. So right now, I work for Sempris, we're ITDR companies that's identity threat, detection and response, focused on active directory, but also Azure AD and the whole hybrid identity thing. That's what I'm doing right now. I've had a sort of long career path, though, that sort of got me to this point. Well, that's a great place to start. That's what I always love to hear, kind of the origin story of the MVPs. So if they're a comic, so get them, jazz it up, make it exciting. But so what was your path to becoming an MVP? Yeah, I mean, so from a career perspective, I mean, I actually started off during the dot-com boom as a Solaris engineer, but as a kid growing up, tinkered with computers, like a Microsoft fanboy, even during the Windows Millennium days. And yeah, I spent a good long time working in the public sector, managed a team that ran the Windows server group that eventually became the Microsoft catchall, and that turned into Azure and Office 365 and everything. And interestingly, when I was there, I would go to blogs and read articles and all other things from MVPs, right? These are the early 2000s and whatnot, but just never thought of really getting involved in the community, or maybe I felt more like I wasn't good enough, so to speak, for that. And I actually worked at Microsoft for a while after that. And that, I would say, almost was like version two of my career started there. There's a lot of internal community stuff and also a lot of promotion of working with the external community. And I left Microsoft to work as a security architect, identity architect at a few different partners. And when I did that, I just really missed that community, started blogging, feeling, I suppose, much more empowered to do that and share knowledge. And I think, in particular, for me, it is the knowledge-sharing piece that I really enjoy. I taught a lot of workshops and whatnot. And when you see that, that light bulb go off in someone else's head and they understand it, I mean, identity is a very complex topic. I just love it. Yeah, it's funny. I mean, you talked about the whole imposter syndrome thing that we all kind of feel and experience. And I think one of the things when I've coached people on, you know, not necessarily certainly with some people that are interested in becoming an MVP, but people that just want to know how to, you know, create more content and do more of that kind of stuff is I think a lot of people get, it's like writing in general because it doesn't just flow magically this long 2000-word article. You know, it doesn't just flow out and people struggle with that. It's like, look, there's simpler ways to approach this, smaller steps into that. And a lot of the community stuff, a lot of the path to becoming an MVP is, I often say, it's creating healthy habits, things that do, like it's, you know, like things that I did, like jotting down my notes in one note, being, you know, making sure I'm capturing, always pushing myself to go back. Hey, I had that idea. I've even like gone in bed, laid down there, had the thought in the head, gotten up, gone back downstairs to the computer, opened it back up, jotted the stuff down right there while it was in my head. And yeah, sometimes, of course, you wake up the next morning, you look at it and you're like, stupid idea is that. But just again, it's just creating those habits that you to go in there and create. But at the end of the day, it's all about sharing that knowledge and helping people. And that's the runner's high that you get is when somebody is just like, this is exactly what I needed, or this, this very helpful, or, you know, Christian, I can't believe you're an MVP. I can do that. Yeah, but that, that stuff happens all the time. Well, and you, like you just got your MVP, right? Yep. Yep. So beginning of beginning of January. Congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. That's very cool. And when did you leave? How long were you in Microsoft? When did you when did you depart? So I left in 2021. Okay. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was there for a shy under three years. So, you know, I've worked in services. So I was a PFE then CE and I think now they're CSA's and went up. Yeah. Same people doing the stuff, a little more industry focused, but same PFE. I still refer to them as PFE's. But yeah, I think PFE sounds cool. I was, I was not happy with customer engineer. Yeah. It rolls off the tongue though. You know, you know, yeah, yeah. Well, very, very cool. So what kind of stuff are you doing or have you done in the community? Like what's what's your involvement on the community side? Yeah. So I mean, primarily so far, you know, it's mostly blogging, trying to actually get more out and on the socials. I spoke at a B sides actually in December, would love to get more into the conference sort of circuit, both. I'm personally just sick of the lack of human contact with. Yeah. With COVID. But no, I mean, you know, identity is a thing I really have a passion for. And I mean, when I've I've worked with a lot, a lot of organizations where, you know, it's tough whether you have generalists who are handling, you know, identity or, you know, securities taken and over, but they don't fully understand what they're doing with it. You know, it's a very deep sort of topic with all the bits and pieces in Azure AD and how it ties into Azure and 365. And so, yeah, I mean, it's what my focus is, is just on identity. And, you know, I guess with some of the other, you know, path to MVP, you know, just a lot of interactions with the product group and sort of, you know, my thoughts and opinions and all that stuff. So well, that's the one I mean, I'm assuming we're not going to have the in-person MVP summit. So it's the I've always said it's the it's the best benefit of being of MVP is is that getting that face time with the product teams and with the engineering organizations. And of course, the other MVPs is just fantastic networking opportunity that we've obviously not had during the pandemic. But, you know, hopefully we'll be coming back to us soon. But, yeah, that's that's a huge value being in the program. So what what kind of stuff? So you talked a little bit about what you're focused on. What I mean, what what's new? What do people need to know about what's happening in in the space? I mean, what and what, by the way, what's encompassed within a security MVP now? Because I know they've moved some things around. A bunch of people just got security added or not dual MVPs around that. So I know they moved the buckets around at the back end. So what kind of what does that encompass? Yeah, I mean, I think from from what I've seen and, you know, it's a lot of the EMS enterprise mobility security MVPs that were, you know, security focused have come over from, you know, what I could sort of gather. And there was also some folks that were maybe on the was it like the data center management and I don't even remember if that's still a thing, but also kind of coming in. I think it is. I think it's out there. Yeah, I think a couple were enterprise mobility that are now also security. And I saw somebody that was in Azure. I don't know what aspect of Azure they focused on, but. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting, actually, because it's I mean, well, now I know it's entry, but even though it's Azure AD, it was really modern work as it was referenced, at least inside Microsoft, right where they really were the ones that owned Azure Active Directory. And I mean, you can see with how tightly integrated it is to, you know, the office suite of things. But, you know, I also kind of felt like the EMS folks always kind of got a bad rap is like you're you're not as good as some other right, like if you're in a tier thing. So I think it's it's nice to see security get its own sort of spotlight. Well, seeing how it's I mean, again, I know that's why I asked like what's included is such a broad category. But when you talk to customers about where the concerns are and the top concerns, the top focus of just about every CIO out there, security is the number one answer to those and, you know, needs to be in the modern era. You know, it's I'm always amazed talking with like the the operations folks at how much when we complain about getting, you know, crappy email or some other exploit attempt or whatever that's coming through. People have no idea how the volume is increased about it's it's amazing what has been filtered out. Yeah. And, you know, so if you have an admin log in and can go and look at what's just in junk and what's being caught. So I'm I'm amused by the the the items that still get through. But that's why you always make sure you report those things. You don't just delete them, folks that, you know, the Microsoft and your admins need to learn like how they're trying to get in there. More phishing phishing has increased, it seems. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's still funny in a way how. Or some phishing emails are you would almost think the threat actors would have learned by now, you know, go out on Fiverr and hire someone to write your your copy or something. When the crown prince of Wakanda reaches out to them, don't ignore those emails. You respond, you help. So you need to start writing phishing emails saying that this is a phishing campaign sort of thing. You sign up for it. Fish folks that way. But no, I mean, phishing is still it's it's a huge thing. I mean, I have a whole I could rant for hours about how I think email is fundamentally broken in just the way that that things sort of work, right? And that we put all this sort of requirements for for phishing training on our end users and that they're sort of to blame right if they fall for it when if I if I'm hired in HR or finance or whatever my job is, right, if I'm not in IT, it's right. I get one angle we say, right, like everyone is a security person at an organization. But at the same time, you're also hired for a business function where right, your your primary role for being at the company is not right to make sure that you don't get phished. I mean, you know, depending on how you look at it. So I think it's just a bit of undue burden in ways, unfortunately, on our end users. But yeah, so what's I mean, what's the answer to that? Where where is that going? Is it just maybe we're, I don't know, it doesn't feel like not being within the space doesn't feel like anything's really changed over the last decade. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I feel like with phishing, it's I mean, right, we're with going passwordless will have the hopefully ability for people to not get fish for the credentials, which tends to be what everyone wants, right? They want your creds to get in. So I mean, I think we are making inroads sort of there with, you know, Hello for Business, 502, Authenticator app, you know, push notifications, even though those are actually fishable. So yeah, but yeah, it's still in a way doesn't feel like it solves, you know, the core problem with email. And I get to write emails big and broad and and it is sort of what it is. But it's just, you know, when I when I was at the state of New York and we were implementing DKM and DMARC and a lot of that and and in ways you're like doing these things, but they almost don't even feel like, right, like, you almost kind of don't even really know what they're doing. You're just like, well, the security thing says to implement them and then you still get phishing email. And right. And I mean, it's just the whole conversation with within that. So I mean, I suppose you could just, you know, turn off your email and go live in the woods or something and, you know, you'd it's appealing. I have I do watch a bunch of those videos on the YouTube where the people go out there and do the off grid, they build their own, you know, log cabins and they kind of like, you know, it takes a year, but they, you know, they just do like all in a 20 minute video walk you through their building. And I just think like, I could do that. My wife would never do that. And my, you know, well, I was going to say my kids wouldn't visit me. No, I think all my kids would love that as well. They would definitely visit me. My wife just wouldn't wouldn't do that. Yeah. My my son's too too hooked on Roblox right now to to give up his internet. So yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what yeah. Well, it's it's I mean, again, interesting space. A lot, a lot happening, you know, we're just waiting for what is it? What's the I just I always forget the phrase that's used in Terminator when the AI becomes self-aware. What is it called? I don't always forget that word, you know, the the like the occurrence, the whatever the word is, but yeah. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about though. Yeah. Well, once we have chat GPT right doing everything for us, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens. Yeah, it's actually I'm hosting a conversation next month where we're talking about the impact of chat GPT and a lot of this AI capability on the office products. I know it's the Microsoft 365 products, but office is easier to say. So yeah. So the like the office suite, what could happen? And so talking about that and with loop and yeah, it's it's interesting what's going to happen there. And it'll be so it's going to get very difficult to tell what's human and what is, you know, artificial. Yeah, I mean, I think though it's well, it's funny. So my fiance, she's actually a graphic designer. And when Dolly came out and there's this whole sort of buzz in the art community, right? Like, oh, it will just paint all the pictures for us and all that stuff. And, you know, chat GPT comes out and everyone's like, oh, all the developers will lose their jobs and everything. And I've I've typed some things into it where the answers are far from from accurate. I think you do have the issue right of disinformation or misinformation coming out of it. And people may be not knowing that it's wrong. But with the whole like it's going to take our jobs. I mean, it makes me think of right. Remember when the cloud was a thing and everyone's like, oh, the cloud is going to take our jobs. And I mean, look at now, we need more IT people than ever. So I think it's interesting. I'm not worried about it stealing our jobs from us, though. I'm not either. It's a look, I think of like VR. I'm less impressed with AR. I can't wait. Like, I think that is the game changer. I think when you think of a lot of this, these AI tools, chat GPT and other for like content generation, like you still need the human. There still needs to be review. There still needs to be the inputs to generate it. And I mean, certain things like, think about it from this standpoint, some of these tools, how hard it must be to be a teacher these days and to know whether your kids have actually done original work and not just grab something. And so the tools to be able to go in and scan and look for plagiarism and just duplication by the student and what's already been done. And like other things, like it's, I mean, there's great tools, but all of that is an assist, not a replacement. So I too, I've gotten in arguments with people much smarter than me that believe that, robots will take over the world and will do so much. And one, I got in an argument with one guy who says, I got in humans will live in the lapse of luxury because robots will do all of that. And I'm like, man, you don't know, somebody owns those robots, like human nature. It's like, it's not gonna work out that way. But yeah, anyway, I know that's a bigger topic. That's a different topic. Well, for folks that are interested in reaching out to you or following you, like where do you participate? Where are you most active? What are the best ways to find you? I mean, so I have my blog, ericonidentity.com, which is my main sort of source of putting content out there. You know, I'm on Twitter, Mastodon, Mastodon, American Identity. My Twitter handles a bit more convoluted. You can just get at my website, LinkedIn. I mean, all the things, I try to be active on the socials. I've been a little wider. I will tell you, I find that Mastodon is a bit, it can be a bit tough if you don't already have a huge following, I feel like compared to Twitter. But yeah, I'm out there. And you know, I'm open this year. I've submitted to some industry conferences, sort of hoping to get out there, some B-Size, RSA, Identiverse, which is a big identity specific conference. So just hoping to get out there, meet folks. And I think those hallway conversations are definitely some of the best things. And they're always the best things. Yeah, I was a 10 year in a row to Inspire and the Microsoft Partner Conference. That's of the three marquee Microsoft Build, Inspire, Ignite. Inspire was my favorite. And the last two, three years, I saw a couple of sessions at the Expo Hall, but didn't go to a single classroom or a single thing. I spent all of my time in meetings and in the Expo Hall meeting with the product teams and talking with partners at their booths and over in the international lounges. It's the conversations with people. It's the serendipitous collisions of people that, I mean, where you get the greatest value out of it. So I'm happy to see that events like numbers are on the rise very quickly. While there are a lot of people who have said flat out, I'm no interested in in person. I'm fine with that. They were introverts before and now there's more than ever before online. They've got those options, but for the rest of us. And I think the younger aged tech workers coming in want to have and need to have more of that in-person experience. So I'm happy to see that. Sorry, I'm at the end of my soapbox on that topic. You're, now you're okay. I mean, I find a lot of the virtual conferences it's too easy these days to start multitasking. And I mean, it's like the benefit you used to have of when I was a Microsoft customer of having services or consultant come in and break you go, squirrel away in a conference room for a few days and nobody knows where you are. And you just get, you get everything done. You have all the distractions put away. And I think you just can't be in-person conferences. Even I'm an introvert. I can play an extrovert for things like this, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've all become a little more introverted over the last couple of years. But yeah, I'm excited for things to open back up and meet more people and expand the network. But, well, but Eric has been great getting to know you and hopefully see you at one of these future events. And I don't get too many security events, but there's plenty that there's more crossover stuff just because it's such an important topic area. So maybe I'll see you at one of things like a dev connections type event or something. So yeah, great. All right. Well, anyway, well, thanks a lot for doing this and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Christian. Thanks. Awesome. Thanks for having me. Wow.